Vegas Shooting Facts Thread

[Doc_Glock]

Since Tom closed the other, here are a couple slides from yesterday’s briefing showing the timeline:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/6f1ccec89c0cf4019379be6ef70e1d8b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/27e93029dd9cd4bcc01dbdfa76f488e0.jpg

Feel free to add on and I would encourage you to use the LVMPD as a vetted source.

[RoyGBiv]

I thought the Sheriff did a great job at that presser yesterday.
Knocked all the "slow to respond" MMQB stuff right on its ass.

[JV_]

Lots of interesting shooter details here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4949402/Stephen-Paddock-huge-gun-room-says-friend.html

[Chance]

Updates from BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41511666):


The gunman behind Sunday night's mass shooting in Las Vegas planned to flee, and he may have had help with planning the massacre, officials suspect.

....

In a press conference on Wednesday, Clark County Sheriff Lombardo was asked if he saw evidence that Paddock had planned to escape after the attack.

The sheriff said "yes". Asked what it was, he said: "I can't tell you."

Sheriff Lombardo was asked by a reporter if he thought Paddock had carried out the attack alone.

"You've got to make the assumption he had to have some help at some point," the sheriff replied.

....

Sheriff Lombardo also revealed:

-Paddock had been gambling just hours before he began shooting

-He had booked into an apartment at the high-rise Ogden in downtown Las Vegas a week earlier during a different open-air festival where acts including Muse, Lorde, Chance the Rapper and Blink-182 were due to play

-A hotel security guard who led police to Paddock's room was shot, but continued to help until he was ordered to seek medical attention

We need to start a GoFundMe to get that guard an all-expense-paid weekend at the BunnyRanch.

[hufnagel]

It's not my thread, but I'd hope people try to limit posts to the topic specified... namely actual facts as they've been presented or revealed, along with links to the source material for proper vetting. We've had our 40 page PFestivus over this incident, so let's please get back to the rational humans most of us are. :D

[JV_]

Solid family ....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4951290/Estranged-brother-Las-Vegas-gunman-wanted-police.html


Bruce Paddock, 57, is wanted by police for skipping a court hearing over a vandalism case

[Shotgun]

Jesus Campos was the security guard who was shot in the hall, through the door, by the Mandalay Bay Shooter ("MBS"). Allegedly, according to one report, about 200 rounds were sent Mr. Campos's way. I have no idea whether the number of rounds would ever be able to be verified, but such does not matter. Mr. Campos's mere presence obviously distracted the MBS from the crowd at the concert. Also, reportedly, Mr. Campos, while wounded, helped direct the police to the MBS's room.

I would like to shake Mr. Campos's hand. Job well done, and thank you.

[NEPAKevin]

I thought the Sheriff did a great job at that presser yesterday.
Knocked all the "slow to respond" MMQB stuff right on its ass.

Agreed. This is really taking a toll on him though. Poor guy looked like he was running on fumes but still showed great professionalism.

[Guinnessman]

More on "Bump Stocks." http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4952222/WH-welcomes-thoughtful-conversations-bump-stocks.html

[RoyGBiv]

Jesus Campos was the security guard who was shot in the hall, through the door, by the Mandalay Bay Shooter ("MBS"). Allegedly, according to one report, about 200 rounds were sent Mr. Campos's way. I have no idea whether the number of rounds would ever be able to be verified, but such does not matter. Mr. Campos's mere presence obviously distracted the MBS from the crowd at the concert. Also, reportedly, Mr. Campos, while wounded, helped direct the police to the MBS's room.

I would like to shake Mr. Campos's hand. Job well done, and thank you.

The Sheriff corroborated this at the presser yesterday, including MBS "strafing" the hall towards the security guard with "200 rounds" (sounded like an estimate, casings yet to be counted) and the security guard supporting LVMPD in clearing the surrounding rooms until the guard was "told" to stop and seek medical attention.

A pic of Mr. Campos is called for, I think..

http://ussanews.com/News1/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/DLV019GVYAArdaA-370x247.jpg

[TheNewbie]

Has there been an concrete elaboration/revelation on the thought that "he had help" and "led a secret life"?

[Guinnessman]

An article from PJmedia about ISIS claiming the shooter converted to Islam 6 months ago: https://pjmedia.com/homeland-security/2017/10/05/new-isis-infographic-vegas-shooting-claims-paddock-converted-six-months-ago/

[JV_]

Another woman ....

http://nypost.com/2017/10/05/investigators-hunt-for-mystery-woman-seen-with-vegas-shooter/

[JV_]

This is a really interesting read:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/us/stephen-paddock-gambling.html

It talks about his complaints of the country music being played (too loud) from the floor below:


He was there to play, not to party. The night before the shooting, Mr. Paddock made two complaints to the hotel about noise coming from his downstairs neighbors: Albert Garzon, a restaurant owner visiting from San Diego, and his wife and friends. Mr. Garzon, who was staying in 31-135, directly beneath Mr. Paddock, said security guards knocked on his door around 1:30 a.m. on Sunday and asked him to turn down his music, country songs. When he asked where the complaint was coming from, pointing out that the nearest rooms on either side were far away, the security guard said, “It’s the guest above you.”

They turned the music down, but had another visit from different security guards half an hour later. The man had called to complain again. Mr. Garzon turned the music off. It wasn’t until the early hours of Monday that Mr. Garzon realized Mr. Paddock had been the complainer.

[eb07]

I thought this was a facts thread? Nothing ISIS claims is fact.

[Chance]

From BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41520829):


The gunman behind the mass shooting at an open-air festival in Las Vegas had reserved rooms overlooking music venues at other sites, investigators say.

Stephen Paddock is known to have booked a room during the Life is Beautiful festival in Vegas a week before he killed 58 people and injured hundreds.

But it has now emerged the retired accountant may have considered sites in Chicago and Boston.

Investigators are still trying to establish Paddock's motive.

A man named Stephen Paddock reserved a room at the Blackstone Hotel, in Chicago, at the same time as the Lollapalooza music festival was taking pace in the Illinois city.

He never checked in, and a hotel spokesman said they had not confirmed "whether that is the same Stephen Paddock".

[Kirk]

Edit: nvm.

[NEPAKevin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiTdugKFR6I

Short version is that the leadership of their emergency services was forward thinking in adapting strategies, training and equipment after the Columbine and Aurora active shooters which is why they had so many first responders in body armor and helmets able to go right into the conflict zone and it was only the sheer volume that proved daunting. Outfuckingstanding.

[JV_]

Perhaps the ISIS connection has legs, from May:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/25/las-vegas-authorities-on-alert-over-new-isis-propaganda-video.html

[AMC]

I have been extremely impressed with the response of all the emergency services in Las Vegas to this incident. And depressed when realizing my own city would produce a clown shoes amateur hour shitshow in response to such an event. Priorities. None of those dead folks will cost the city government money.....but HR complaints about sexual harassment and "misgendering" will, so what gets training dollars?
As for the purported links to ISIS or any other groups, I have seen nothing credible in this regard. That FOX report is no different, in my opinion. As for folks making statements that "ISIS doesn't make false claims".....bull. They would take credit for causing Gall Gadot bikini-line razor burn if they could. Let's let the clear professionals involved in this thing finish their investigation.

[Kirk]

Perhaps the ISIS connection has legs, from May:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/05/25/las-vegas-authorities-on-alert-over-new-isis-propaganda-video.html

I'll look for a link, but a leading ISIS "expert" (journalist who has covered since their founding) posted a long, fact filled tweet on the topic. She has kept meticulous notes on ISIS, and there have only been 3 instances out of 50+ where they took responsibility and there aren't solid evidence to back it up. Her point was that ISIS very rarely claims responsibility without it being true. They wrote in their online journal that Paddock was converted 6 months ago. Also, just so some don't automatically discount her as a quack, she has a lot of clout with very powerful people. Chelsea Clinton commented on her post thanking her for bringing great analysis. Link:

https://mobile.twitter.com/rcallimachi/status/915998590153129984

I'm not in a position to do anything but make a guess on the topic, and I certainly won't do that in this thread. I'll be very curious what more is discovered over the coming weeks. I clearly remember the ISIS media threatening LV. I unfortunately have to semi-keep up with ISIS because they control sectors of the industry I'm in and can make a small difference in the price of oil.

[JV_]

Milo is reporting that Homeland Security is taking over:

https://twitter.com/MiloYiannopfans/status/916432462867320832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

[Erick Gelhaus]

Lots of interesting shooter details here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4949402/Stephen-Paddock-huge-gun-room-says-friend.html

I've found the Daily Mail gets much better photos & videos of just occurred events more regularly and quicker than just about any other major web news source. I don't always agree with how they present it but they've got the visuals.

[serialsolver]

https://pamelageller.com/2017/10/muslims-social-media-vegas.html/

I think this is the article Kirk is referring to.

[Trukinjp13]

Milo is reporting that Homeland Security is taking over:

https://twitter.com/MiloYiannopfans/status/916432462867320832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Link appears to be not working for me. What does that mean in the grand scheme of things if Homeland is taking over?


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[JV_]

What does that mean in the grand scheme of things if Homeland is taking over?

No clue. I'm merely relaying things I find interesting.

[JV_]

3 days before they say he checked in:


ANOTHER pic of the @MandalayBay valet records for #StephenPaddock (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=StephenPaddock) the clearly reference his name, room number, and a Sep.25 valet ticket


https://twitter.com/LauraLoomer/status/916463793248587777

[SamAdams]

Various new data points in following article-

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-06/vegas-shooter-investigators-puzzled-believe-he-was-not-alone-two-reasons


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[Kirk]

https://pamelageller.com/2017/10/muslims-social-media-vegas.html/

I think this is the article Kirk is referring to.

I haven't seen that one. Just read it. I was referring to the one I linked from Twitter

[HCM]

Milo is reporting that Homeland Security is taking over:

https://twitter.com/MiloYiannopfans/status/916432462867320832?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Even if your ISIS hypothesis is true, and there is no evidence supporting it at this time, things don't work like that. FBI via the JTTF would be the lead domestic LE agency on a terrorist incident.

This is #fakenews (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=fakenews) .

[HCM]

I thought this was a facts thread? Nothing ISIS claims is fact.

This ^^^

[JV_]

Even if your ISIS hypothesis is trueFWIW: I don't really have any solid ideas about the real story. In life, I've been in too many situations where I've learned about 1 vital piece of information, after I thought I had the whole picture, and that completely reversed my opinion/theory. With this shooting, I have next to no data points upon which to form an opinion.

[serialsolver]

I don’t have a tin foil hat, just posting info I think is curious.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/06/isis-inspired-plot-targeted-times-square-nyc-subway-feds-say.html

[blues]

Targets of opportunity. Bang for the buck, so to speak.

[HCM]

I don’t have a tin foil hat, just posting info I think is curious.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/06/isis-inspired-plot-targeted-times-square-nyc-subway-feds-say.html

What, exactly, is the factual basis linking the events in this article to the events in Las Vegas ?

This si supposed to be the Vegas facts thread, not the Vegas unfounded speculation thread.

[AlwaysLearning]

Crucially, they were excellent investments: Stephen Paddock more than doubled his money on his California holdings, which included at least six multifamily residences, according to property records. He made money in Texas, too. In 2012, he sold a 110-unit building in Mesquite, outside Dallas, for $8.3 million.

He was a good landlord. He kept the rents low, responded promptly to his tenants’ complaints, learned all their names and made sure they were happy. When one reliable tenant complained about a rent increase, he took half off the difference. He designed the ownership structure so his family would profit and installed his mother in a tidy house just behind the apartment complex in Mesquite, Tex.

From the latest NY Times Article (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/07/us/stephen-paddock-vegas.html).

Sounds like a guy who treated his family and tenants right. What the hell happened?

[serialsolver]

What, exactly, is the factual basis linking the events in this article to the events in Las Vegas ?

This si supposed to be the Vegas facts thread, not the Vegas unfounded speculation thread.

The people charged in nyc planed the same type of attack as vagas (shooting up a concert) and there is a Philippine connection.

True, there are not established links. I have a old habit of trying to put things together. I’ll return to lurking with no rage quit or butt hurt involved.

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[Wondering Beard]

The people charged in nyc planed the same type of attack as vagas (shooting up a concert) and there is a Philippine connection.

True, there are not established links. I have a old habit of trying to put things together. I’ll return to lurking with no rage quit or butt hurt involved.

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I believe I understand your instinct on this, but so far those connections are too loose. Right now we (at least 'we' the public) know too little to start connecting other events.

[TheNewbie]

I don't not want to step out of my lane, but maybe we could have a separate thread for theories or conclusions that are not solid enough to be facts?

I just don't want to see this thread closed as I appreciate the contributions to it.

[HCM]

I don't not want to step out of my lane, but maybe we could have a separate thread for theories or conclusions that are not solid enough to be facts?

I just don't want to see this thread closed as I appreciate the contributions to it.

That is a great idea.

[JV_]

Laura Loomer's Twitter account is an interesting read. She's breaking a lot of facts, like when he bought his car and other fresh information:
https://twitter.com/LauraLoomer

[Savage Hands]

I don't not want to step out of my lane, but maybe we could have a separate thread for theories or conclusions that are not solid enough to be facts?

I just don't want to see this thread closed as I appreciate the contributions to it.

I’d prefer both ‘facts’ and speculation in this thread instead of chit chat and complaining personally. IMO we’re adults that can decide what we want to believe and what to ignore. This isn’t arfcom with three new posts every time you refresh.

[JV_]

The notes in the room were cheat sheets for bullet drop:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-note-hotel-room-details-of-bullet-trajectory/


"I could see on it he had written the distance, the elevation he was on, the drop of what his bullet was gonna be for the crowd," Newton said. "So he had that written down and figured out so he would know where to shoot to hit his targets from there."

[Chance]

Fox is reporting that he apparently hired a prostitute a few days before the attack. This being Vegas, I don't really see that as news.

Fox is also reporting he purchased tracer ammunition.

[Casual Friday]

Fox is reporting that he apparently hired a prostitute a few days before the attack. This being Vegas, I don't really see that as news.

Fox is also reporting he purchased tracer ammunition.

When they reported early on in the week that it appeared he had guests the first thing I thought of was he was probably slinging dick with a local pamphlet princess.

[JV_]

Fox is reporting that he apparently hired a prostitute a few days before the attack.

The article I read said it was a common 'perk' of the high rollers that the hotels arranged all of that ....

[FNFAN]

The article I read said it was a common 'perk' of the high rollers that the hotels arranged all of that ....

Not so much. Nevada Gaming Control Board would be so far up a property's arse so fast you'd swear you were watching 'The Flash." No casino is going to get directly involved in the flesh trade for fear their license would be in jeopardy. Not to say that it isn't a huge industry or that there aren't folks out on casino floors that "knows a guy who might know a girl (boy, sheep)......"

Technology and corporate owned casinos have served to put that "service industry" more distant from the operators than in the past.

[Casual Friday]

Not so much. Nevada Gaming Control Board would be so far up a property's arse so fast you'd swear you were watching 'The Flash." No casino is going to get directly involved in the flesh trade for fear their license would be in jeopardy. Not to say that it isn't a huge industry or that there aren't folks out on casino floors that "knows a guy who might know a girl (boy, sheep)......"

Technology and corporate owned casinos have served to put that "service industry" more distant from the operators than in the past.

Yeah big risk it seems like. I can't imagine it's so hard to get a prostitute in Vegas that the hotel would have to provide one. I could see a front desk concierge or something having a side deal worked out with the working girls, them and the bell hops are probably the one's who get asked about hookers the most.

[JV_]

I could see a front desk concierge or something having a side deal worked out with the working girls

It was suggested that the high roller's handler, assigned by the hotel, is the middle man for the deal.

[JV_]

most notably, 200-plus casino or wire transactions by Paddock that were flagged for review by FinCEN, the U.S. government’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, which collects data to identify potential money laundering or covert terrorism financing.

https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/las-vegas-investigation-focuses-paddocks-finances-travel-sources-162657792.html

[Casual Friday]

It was suggested that the high roller's handler, assigned by the hotel, is the middle man for the deal.

That makes sense. Hotel has plausible deniability should anything happen. I've never been assigned a handler at any Hotel in Vegas. I guess not gambling and paying full price for buffets doesn't make me a prime target for comped rooms and "extras".

[OlongJohnson]

It wouldn't surprise me for anyone moving as much money as he did in and out of casinos to raise flags for investigation. In fact, it would be more surprising if he didn't. They basically are looking for big blocks of cash.

I have a friend who deals in semi-exotic used vehicles. His entire deal is to be the scrupulously legal guy in an industry with a reputation for shadiness, and he's had a hell of a time obtaining banking services because of the large number of cash deposits.

[JV_]

That makes sense. Hotel has plausible deniability should anything happen. I suspect it's a similar arrangement as the cab drivers have with the strip clubs, it's all under the table. The cab drivers get a portion of the cover charge when they convince someone to visit their preferred/arranged club.

[JV_]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/las-vegas-officers-describe-storming-shooter-stephen-paddock-hotel-room/

This reminds me of the Virginia Tech shooter who chained/locked the doors shut.


This ad-hoc group of officers didn't know what they would face, but they soon discovered Paddock had barricaded the stairwell door.

Joshua Bitsko: He had screwed shut the door-- with a piece of metal and some screws.

[Chance]

CNN got a hold of a copy of the court deposition (http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/us/las-vegas-stephen-paddock-deposition/index.html) the dude gave as part of his lawsuit of the Cosmopolitan. Everything is in his words, so who knows if it's actually true.


He was a nocturnal creature who gambled all night and slept all day.

He took Valium at times for anxiousness, and had the doctor who prescribed it to him on retainer.

He wagered up to a million dollars a night, but wandered around glitzy Las Vegas casinos in sweatpants and flip-flops, and carried his own drink into the high rollers' area because he didn't want to tip the waitresses too much.

....

The Las Vegas Review-Journal reported that Dr. Winkler prescribed him diazepam in June, based on information contained in Nevada's prescription drug monitoring database. CNN could not independently confirm that information.

Paddock was asked whether he had a good relationship with the doctor who prescribed him the pills.

"He's like on retainer, I call it, I guess," Paddock said of Winkler. "It means I pay a fee yearly ... I have good access to him."

Paddock described himself as something of a rolling stone who split his time among California, Nevada, Texas and Florida, traveling at one point "maybe upwards of three weeks out of a month."

His de facto home was often one of the casinos, where he stayed in rooms that were provided for free "95% of the time." Hotels often provide free rooms and amenities to big gamblers to entice them back to their casinos.

At the Cosmopolitan, he said he had opened a bottle of sake in his room, possibly on the night of the incident, but did not drink much.

A lawyer asked him to explain why he would open the beverage but not drink it.

Paddock explained that everything in his room was "comped" or free, "so, yes, I would open all sorts of things."

"And if you aren't comped at casinos, you wouldn't understand," he added.

....

Some of the testimony centered on his gambling.

He described himself as being, at one point, the "biggest video poker player in the world."

"How do I know that?" Paddock asked rhetorically. "Because I know some of the video poker players that play big. Nobody played as much and as long as I did."

At the height of his play in 2006, he testified, "I averaged 14 hours a day, 365 days a year."

"I'll gamble all night," he said. "I sleep during the day."

Asked if he ever visited the hotel pool, Paddock replied, "I do not do sun."

Paddock said he rarely drank alcohol when he gambled, because "at the stakes I play, you want to have all your wits about you, or as much wit as I have."

....

"Each time I push the button, it will range from $100 to $1,350," he said.

A lawyer asked how much he could end up betting on a given night.

"A million dollars," Paddock replied.

"That's a lot of money," the lawyer said.

"No, it's not," Paddock said.

And I apologize for the thread-derail, but here goes:

[thread-derail]

I completely buy that the casino surreptitiously got the guy prostitutes, not that it matters in the least. Vegas's reputation didn't pop into existence out of no where, and if casinos don't get wealthy people what they want, the wealth will go elsewhere.

The current mayor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolyn_Goodman_(politician)) of Vegas is married to the previous mayor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oscar_Goodman) of Vegas, who was an (in)famous attorney for the mob. That doesn't scream "incorruptible."

[/thread-derail]

[CS Tactical]

Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire on concertgoers, police reveal
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story.html

[Chance]

Echoing CS Tactical - from CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/us/las-vegas-shooting-suspect/index.html):



Stephen Paddock shot a security guard before opening fire on concertgoers in Las Vegas last weekend, Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said. The guard was investigating an alarm signaling that a door had been left open on the same floor as Paddock's room.

Paddock shot Jesus Campos in the leg, injuring him at 9:59 p.m. on October 1, according to Lombardo.

At 10:05 p.m, Paddock shot numerous rounds into the crowd at the Route 91 Harvest Festival from his room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, authorities have said. He continued firing for about nine to 11 minutes.

Paddock's final shots were fired at 10:15 p.m., according to a police timeline. Authorities do not yet know what made him stop shooting, Lombardo said. By the time officers entered the room, Paddock was dead from a self-inflicted gun shot wound.

The detail reflects a change in the shooting timeline police had earlier provided. Authorities had previously said they believed Campos drew Paddock's attention away from firing out the window, and that Paddock didn't fire any further shots after wounding the guard.

"What we have learned is Mr. Campos was encountered by the suspect prior to his shooting to the outside world," Lombardo said.

[Chance]

BBC is reporting (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41564200):


Clark County Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said that police did not realise that the security guard had been shot until they arrived on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel. That was the case even though the guard managed to alert the hotel's security team.

[Trukinjp13]

Well....that kind of is a big fucking difference. How the Hell did the police not know he was shot? Wtf.


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[hufnagel]

Well....that kind of is a big fucking difference. How the Hell did the police not know he was shot? Wtf.


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I've never been involved in the kind of chaos I can only assume was going on at the time, so if we assume the shot wasn't any place vital, and wasn't a massive bleeder, is it possible it could have been over looked by responders?

[Trukinjp13]

I've never been involved in the kind of chaos I can only assume was going on at the time, so if we assume the shot wasn't any place vital, and wasn't a massive bleeder, is it possible it could have been over looked by responders?

That is not what I meant. He was shot 6 minutes before they showed up 12 minutes after? They did not know someone had been shot outside the door 18 minutes earlier?

He must have gotten rushed into shooting and knowing that guy was laying out there had to change his entire plan.


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[Kirk]

I'm not trying to speculate, I am curious though. Any reason he shot the security guard at that point? It just seems that for such an intelligent and well organized guy, he'd not have sprayed 200 rounds at an unsuspecting security guard 6 minutes before shooting concert goers. I'll be interested to hear what comes of this in the future from official sources. It definitely appears that intentionally or unintentionally, the security guard may have saved a lot of lives.

[SamAdams]

There are some 'crazy' theories out there about what happened & why. I won't repeat them in this thread dedicated to facts. But at this point, with the twist & turns in what has been officially reported, who knows what's really going on.


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[Casual Friday]

The security guard getting shot by Paddock BEFORE he shot into the crowded concert seems to create more questions than it answers.

[TiroFijo]

Since Tom closed the other, here are a couple slides from yesterday’s briefing showing the timeline:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/6f1ccec89c0cf4019379be6ef70e1d8b.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/27e93029dd9cd4bcc01dbdfa76f488e0.jpg

Feel free to add on and I would encourage you to use the LVMPD as a vetted source.

The entire timeline of events is in doubts now... so much for the "facts" part.

We'll have to wait.

[JV_]

The entire timeline of events is in doubts now... so much for the "facts" part.
FWIW: Mandalay does not agree with the latest timeline put out by the FBI.

[Kirk]

FWIW: Mandalay does not agree with the latest timeline put out by the FBI.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/22137/mgm-resorts-disputes-new-timeline-las-vegas-ryan-saavedra?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

Just such a weird situation. I won't speculate, it's just strange.

[JV_]

Congressman offers his take on the situation:
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2017/10/10/after-las-vegas-massacre-nkys-rep-thomas-massie-emerges-vocal-and-lonely-defender-bump-stocks/751403001/

[SamAdams]

Paddock's house broken into last weekend. -

http://www.rgj.com/story/news/crime/2017/10/10/las-vegas-shooters-reno-home-broken-into-fbi-revisiting/750725001/

[Josh Runkle]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/22137/mgm-resorts-disputes-new-timeline-las-vegas-ryan-saavedra?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

Just such a weird situation. I won't speculate, it's just strange.

“Another new piece of information came to light on Tuesday as CBS News reported that Paddock supposedly used the hotel’s freight elevator in the days leading up to the attack.”


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[Trukinjp13]

Here is a fact. This is one big shit show. There is so much misinformation it is mind boggling. So many questions that may never be answered.


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[JV_]

There is so much misinformation it is mind boggling. So many questions that may never be answered.

But some think we have enough information to pass legislation .... :confused:

[Guinnessman]

The only place I have never seen a camera in a casino is my room. There are cameras everywhere you turn in a casino and this clown show cannot even get a timeline straight. It all smells like bullshit to me.

[JV_]

This guy knew the shooter was on the 32nd floor, before it started.


- A maintenance worker said Wednesday he told hotel dispatchers to call police and report a gunman had opened fire with a rifle inside the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino hotel before the shooter began firing from his high-rise suite into a crowd at a nearby musical performance.


Worker Stephen Schuck says he was checking out a report of a jammed fire door on the 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay when he heard gunshots and a hotel security guard, who had been shot in the leg, peeked out from an alcove and told him to take cover.

"As soon as I started to go to a door to my left the rounds started coming down the hallway," Schuck said. "I could feel them pass right behind my head.

"It was kind of relentless so I called over the radio what was going on," he said. "As soon as the shooting stopped we made our way down the hallway and took cover again and then the shooting started again."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/worker-warned-hotel-before-las-vegas-shooter-opened-fire-on-crowd/

[El Cid]

Let’s not get too excited yet. For anyone who has worked investigations, let me assure you it can be maddening. Yes, it’s possible for CCTV systems, computers, phones, dispatch, etc. to have dramatically different time stamps on them. Some cameras stop working. Some cameras have lousy resolution. There’s a myriad of things that can make it challenging to come up with a timeline for such a fluid event involving multiple locations and thousands of people. There is no conspiracy or malice. It’s just a metric ton of mind-numbing work.

And let’s not forget this asshole was apparently smarter than the average thug, so the kind of information we’d normally have doesn’t appear to be readily accessible. Given the scope of what happened, try to cut them some slack and know that many of them probably haven’t worked less than 15 hour days since it started.

[critter]

Let’s not get too excited yet. ...There is no conspiracy or malice...

Hey now, John from 4chan called it three weeks before it happened! [/conspiracy sarcasm]

http://www.snopes.com/4chan-user-prediction-las-vegas-shooting/

[JV_]

Conspiracy or not, Snopes is not a trustworthy site.

[CS Tactical]

Las Vegas shooting: New audio captures first shots fired
https://www.today.com/video/las-vegas-shooting-new-audio-captures-first-shots-fired-1069738563795

[Casual Friday]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/22174/fbi-back-reno-after-burglars-elude-security-and-emily-zanotti?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

So the question is; Were the burglars so highly skilled that they were able to break in even though the house was being guarded 24/7, or were the wrong people tasked with guarding it?

[Josh Runkle]

http://www.dailywire.com/news/22174/fbi-back-reno-after-burglars-elude-security-and-emily-zanotti?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro

So the question is; Were the burglars so highly skilled that they were able to break in even though the house was being guarded 24/7, or were the wrong people tasked with guarding it?

“Nothing was removed...” but...was anything added?

What’s the motive for a break in of a highly secure area if nothing was removed?



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[HCM]

I'm a little skeptical of the house in Reno being "highly guarded." Secured, locked with a seal on the door, maybe with a marked unit sitting out front to keep away the riff raff would be typical even in High profile case.

[SamAdams]

Some local people called into the Michael Savage radio show and said Paddock's house was left completely open after police initially entered it. Not even yellow police tape. I do recall seeing a photo that showed a beat up garage door where the police entered & no tape or police cars.


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[SamAdams]

Summary article that doesn't get super speculative (compared to many) -

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-11/brandon-smith-tactical-analysis-las-vegas-mass-shooting-incident


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[SamAdams]

Steve Wynn interview-

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WTMePDPgAsU




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[Casual Friday]

Steve Wynn interview-

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WTMePDPgAsU




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Very telling interview about "privacy" in Wynn Hotels. Rooms with Do Not Disturb signs for 12 hours get investigated?

[Hambo]

Some local people called into the Michael Savage radio show and said Paddock's house was left completely open after police initially entered it. Not even yellow police tape. I do recall seeing a photo that showed a beat up garage door where the police entered & no tape or police cars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I wouldn't put unvetted callers to a radio show in the facts category.

[Chance]

From the LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-casino-security-20171012-story.html):


Before Paddock’s shooting rampage began at 10:05 p.m., Campos radioed and called security on a hotel phone about a gunman in the building, Clark County Assistant Sheriff Tom Roberts said this week. Officers were already in the building on a different call.

Yet as Paddock rained bullets down on the crowd for 10 minutes, police audio dispatches revealed widespread confusion among officers at the scene, who had not received Campos’ alert and were urgently trying to figure out where the gunfire was coming from.

The officers who did zero in on Mandalay Bay did not immediately know where Paddock was, and had begun their search on the floor below him. “I’m inside the Mandalay Bay on the 31st floor,” one officer radioed about 10:14 p.m. “I can hear the automatic fire coming from one floor ahead. One floor above us.”

According to police, the first officers arrived on the 32nd floor at 10:17 p.m. — two minutes after Paddock had stopped firing. Campos was there waiting for them. “They weren’t aware of him being shot until they met him in the hallway after exiting the elevator,” Lombardo said Monday.

Roberts also revealed this week that the hotel had dispatched its own armed security team, which arrived on the 32nd floor about the same time as police.

The lack of cameras in the hallway has made it difficult to nail down a precise timeline of events, and investigators promised an updated timeline on Friday.

Experts on security say the normal protocol for casinos is to call police immediately for help when an armed threat presents itself.

“Casinos call 911 like everyone else,” said C. David Shepherd, a former FBI special agent who spent seven years as executive director of security for the Venetian Resort Hotel and Casino. While the casinos have armed security, “they are not protected and trained to take on a barricaded suspect. It takes a special trained team of police officers.”

[TiroFijo]

Steve Wynn interview-

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WTMePDPgAsU

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Most probably, the entire large hotel business (and not all locations have the same risks) will redesign along these guidelines... like it or not. This is additional expenses.

[SamAdams]

I wouldn't put unvetted callers to a radio show in the facts category.

True. Call it a data point.

This was before the reported break in, by several days. They were wondering why no one was guarding the house. The radio host agreed that this seemed strange after the biggest mass shooting in U.S. history.
In any case, the house apparently Was broken in to. If guarded, how did that happen?


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[OlongJohnson]

Summary article that doesn't get super speculative (compared to many) -

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-11/brandon-smith-tactical-analysis-las-vegas-mass-shooting-incident


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This isn't criticism of your post, but I think that writer is up his own ass with tacticalness. Paddock was an extraordinarily intelligent man, who apparently figured out ways to consistently make large amounts of money doing something that is generally assumed to be only a losing proposition. Putting a stake in the ground saying he couldn't figure out all the things he figured out without being highly trained doesn't wash for me. Multiple angles, multiple positions is common sense. The range was provided by the existence of the hotel. The floor is probably the one he could get, etc. It's already been discussed that the number of arms may just be "one is none" taken to an extreme, in the knowledge that continuous fire of an AR is likely to lead to stoppages. A person with a basic understanding of high school physics should be able to sit down with a blank sheet of paper, start sketching vectors, and figure out how to compensate trajectories for elevation in five minutes. It's not rocket science.



In any case, the house apparently Was broken in to. If guarded, how did that happen?


Possible they were focused on the street side. The back yard faces up to open mountain desert terrain, but with fences to cover an approach.

[JFK]

Very telling interview about "privacy" in Wynn Hotels. Rooms with Do Not Disturb signs for 12 hours get investigated?

This is not an odd practice in any hotel. All hotels do this. In fact there are some lodging laws in some states that require the hotel to enter the room after 48 hours. 12 hours is a little short however.

[TiroFijo]

This angle of elevation and distance does NOT change POI too much... it is a non issue unless you go for very accurate shots.

http://www.exteriorballistics.com/ebexplained/article1.html

For a 308, POI variation is about -10" at 300 yds

For a 223, POI variation is about -7.8" at 300 yds

[Casual Friday]

This is not an odd practice in any hotel. All hotels do this. In fact there are some lodging laws in some states that require the hotel to enter the room after 48 hours. 12 hours is a little short however.

Yeah the 12 hour thing is what I was referring to.

[JV_]

All hotels do this.

A few weeks ago I kept my DND up for 4 days at the Bellagio, no one investigated it.

They are pretty relentless about seeing some type of "card" in your hand before you get in to an elevator. Waive any card ... they don't care. I hate this type annoyance. It's like the mindless receipt checking at the big value/box stores.

[SamAdams]

Professional poker player who goes up against other pros, yeah there a few people with the skills to do that. Professional video poker player - - sounds like b.s. -

http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2017-10-11.html


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[Chance]

From ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/las-vegas-shooter-preparing-siege-authorities-sources/story?id=50416137):


Multiple officials briefed on the investigation told ABC News on Tuesday night that detectives are still collecting evidence from Paddock's suite at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino. They said the 64-year-old retired accountant and high-stakes video poker player was clearly preparing for some sort of extended siege with authorities after carrying out the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

The officials told ABC News that Paddock had jammed doors, making them difficult to open. He also had access to the hotel's service elevator and used it in the days leading up to the Oct. 1 shooting.

In an interview with local radio station KNPR, Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Undersheriff Kevin McMahill said that a number of items, including gas masks, found in Paddock’s hotel room suggest to investigators that he planned to escape the hotel.

His access to the service elevator might explain a number of things. Preparing for a siege had been my guess. If that's the case though, he shot himself awful quickly, and apparently before police arrived.

I'm beginning to wonder if the dude was a paranoid schizophrenic or something. I'm anxious to see what the toxicology and autopsy turn up.

[GJM]

Wow!

http://cnn-internationaledition.com/2017/10/11/breaking-news-police-arrest-mandalay-security-guard-jesus-compos-as-second-shooter-in-las-vegas-massacre/

[GJM]

Wow!

http://cnn-internationaledition.com/2017/10/11/breaking-news-police-arrest-mandalay-security-guard-jesus-compos-as-second-shooter-in-las-vegas-massacre/

Not sure if this is fake news?

[TiroFijo]

sorry

[Shotgun]

After reading that Ann Coulter piece, I am not sure we know any facts other than a bunch of people got shot in Vegas at a concert by a shooter from the Mandalay Bay Hotel.

[GJM]

That makes sense, as once I started thinking clearly, I couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t being reported elsewhere.

[CS Tactical]

edit, I should have refreshed

[Chance]

From BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41599529):


A hotel worker has said he alerted staff to report a gunman had opened fire before the suspect shot dead 58 people at a Las Vegas music festival.

Stephen Schuck said he was responding to a jammed fire door on the 32nd floor when he heard gunfire and spotted a colleague who had been shot.

He called dispatchers and told them to call police as the gunman sprayed bullets down the hallway, he said.

Should the delay really be that surprising? It probably took a minute for the hotel worker to get past vapor-lock and realize what he was seeing. Once he called the hotel staff, it probably took them a minute or two of thinking, "He's saying what's happening?" before calling 911.

Then there's the usual delay of communicating the situation to the 911 operator, and it's entirely possible other people in the hotel were calling 911 around the same time. So by the time the 911 call center got the information and was prepared to dispatch police, Paddock had begun shooting at the crowd.

Once the crowd started taking fire, I'm sure police comms went crazy. Dozens, if not hundreds, of 911 calls flooded the call center, and any information coming from the hotel itself was lost in the chaos. That seems entirely plausible.

[SamAdams]

That makes sense, as once I started thinking clearly, I couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t being reported elsewhere.

Yeah, I started checking my other usual news websites- and none of them reported it.
My first reaction seeing your post was ' Hole-E-Fuk !'

They undoubtedly had a lot of us going.


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[Kirk]

For the myriad people PMing and having a hard time believing that cnn-internationaledition.com, registered 2 days ago, is a fake new site, here is the WHOIS record for the real cnn.com. You’ll notice that real companies don’t register their web properties using godaddy, personal names and gmail email addresses.



Domain Name: cnn.com
Registry Domain ID: 3269879_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN
Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.corporatedomains.com
Registrar URL: www.cscprotectsbrands.com
Updated Date: 2017-02-15T16:01:26Z
Creation Date: 1993-09-22T04:00:00Z
Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2018-09-21T04:00:00Z
Registrar: CSC CORPORATE DOMAINS, INC.
Registrar IANA ID: 299
Registrar Abuse Contact Email: domainabuse@cscglobal.com
Registrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.8887802723
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: serverDeleteProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#serverDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: serverTransferProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#serverTransferProhibited
Domain Status: serverUpdateProhibited http://www.icann.org/epp#serverUpdateProhibited
Registry Registrant ID:
Registrant Name: Domain Name Manager
Registrant Organization: Turner Broadcasting System, Inc.
Registrant Street: One CNN Center
Registrant City: Atlanta
Registrant State/Province: GA
Registrant Postal Code: 30303
Registrant Country: US
Registrant Phone: +1.4048275000
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax: +1.4048271995
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email: tmgroup@turner.com
Registry Admin ID:
Admin Name: Domain Name Manager
Admin Organization: Turner Broadcasting System, Inc.
Admin Street: One CNN Center
Admin City: Atlanta
Admin State/Province: GA
Admin Postal Code: 30303
Admin Country: US
Admin Phone: +1.4048275000
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax: +1.4048271995
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email: tmgroup@turner.com
Registry Tech ID:
Tech Name: TBS Server Operations
Tech Organization: Turner Broadcasting System, Inc.
Tech Street: One CNN Center
Tech City: Atlanta
Tech State/Province: GA
Tech Postal Code: 30303
Tech Country: US
Tech Phone: +1.4048275000
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax: +1.4048271593
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email: hostmaster@turner.com
Name Server: ns-47.awsdns-05.com
Name Server: ns-576.awsdns-08.net
Name Server: ns-1086.awsdns-07.org
Name Server: ns-1630.awsdns-11.co.uk
DNSSEC: unsigned
URL of the ICANN WHOIS Data Problem Reporting System: http://wdprs.internic.net/
>>> Last update of WHOIS database: 2017-02-15T16:01:26Z

Lmao! So true.

It had me going to though when I saw it posted, looked very legit.

[GJM]

So what was the game they were playing with this website, driving views or something else?

[critter]

After reading that Ann Coulter piece, I am not sure we know any facts other than a bunch of people got shot in Vegas at a concert by a shooter from the Mandalay Bay Hotel.

Yep. That's pretty much sums up about all we can or should take as 'fact' about the primary incident at this point in the investigation. There are a number of other 'factoid' tidbits floating around but there's no telling where any one of those may lead, if anywhere.

[ReverendMeat]

For the myriad people PMing and having a hard time believing that cnn-internationaledition.com, registered 2 days ago, is a fake news site, here is the WHOIS record for the real cnn.com. You’ll notice that real companies don’t register their web properties using godaddy, personal names and gmail email addresses.


Not to mention that the main page features stories on a flying dildo attack and a sheep giving birth to a human.

[Totem Polar]

Fucking godaddy... they should be arresting those guys and charging them with some sort of vegas add-on, just on principle.

Sorry. Carry on...

[11B10]

I must say it looked very convincing and considering some of the other "fake news" spewed by the REAL CNN, not all that crazy. Thanks for being all over this one, Tom.

[JV_]

20796

[RoyGBiv]

internationaledition.cnn.com =legit

cnn-internationaledition.com = not

[AlwaysLearning]

Whereabouts unknown for Jesus Campos, security guard shot by Paddock
https://twitter.com/WashNews/status/918669203418128384

[s0nspark]

internationaledition.cnn.com = legit fake news

cnn-internationaledition.com = fake fake news

FIFY ;-)

[Chance]

After an obviously fake news site were to post a story about how I was the “second shooter” and a bunch of retards (no offense intended to anyone here) started posting links to it all over the internet and saying things like “that makes a lot of sense!”, you can bet that my whereabouts would be unknown too.

I'd be scarce regardless. Having the media hound you over an event like this has got to be agonizing.

[Chance]

Police have tweaked the timeline a little, saying Campos was wounded only a few minutes before the attack on the crowd started, rather than the six minutes reported earlier. Some additional details from Time (http://time.com/4982716/las-vegas-gunman-targeted-jet-fuel-tanks-responding-police/):


The gunman who sprayed more than 1,000 bullets into a Las Vegas country music concert also took shots at jet fuel tanks and targeted police officers responding to the scene, investigators said Friday in portraying a killer who seemed determined to inflict even more carnage than the 58 people he murdered.

….

A visual inspection of Paddock's brain during a coroner's autopsy found "no abnormalities," Lombardo said.

Paddock's body is being sent to Stanford University for study, Clark County Coroner John Fudenberg said. He added he would await findings of multiple forensic analyses, including a neuropathological examination of Paddock's brain tissue, before issuing a finding on a cause and manner of his death. That ruling is not expected for several months, the coroner said.

….

Lombardo confirmed that Paddock intentionally opened fire on jet fuel tanks at the nearby McCarran International Airport and said he took shots at arriving police officers, possibly to keep them at bay as police rushed to his room.

I'm guessing the "visual inspection" remark was the result of a reporter's question. What does a visual inspection of a brain that just had a bullet go through it supposed to indicate?

[HCM]

Brother of Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock detained in child porn case, authorities say


On Wednesday, Sandra Breault, a spokeswoman for the FBI in Las Vegas, declined to say whether Bruce Paddock’s detention was connected to the agency's investigation into the concert shooting.

"We have no comment at this time," she said.


http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-bruce-paddock-20171025-story.html

[Kanati]

So, apparently he took the hard drive out of his computer....it's missing.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/las-vegas-shooters-laptop-missing-hard-drive/story?id=50709285

[SamAdams]

Strange -

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/mysterious-missing-vegas-security-guard-left-country-days-after-vegas-massacre

[S Jenks]

Strange -

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-26/mysterious-missing-vegas-security-guard-left-country-days-after-vegas-massacre

What’s so strange? Poor dude took a rifle round through the leg with “hundreds” of bullets being fired at him. My guess is he was unarmed at the time and I can only fathom the feelings of terror and helplessness he was sure to have felt. I’d have the zap on as well and if I wanted to get the heck out of Dodge for a bit, I sure would.

[blues]

It is so strange that a guy named Jesus Campos, who likely has family in Mexico, would occasionally go to Mexico — especially after he was shot in the largest active shooter event ever. It’s a real head scratcher.

He may have absconded in el carro de Fernando..., un poco de pie y otro andando.

[modrecoil]

Strangest thing is how the media is reporting on this. NPR news served a conspiracy salad headline last night with Jesus Campos "vanishing" into Mexico(!!) AND shooters brother arrested for kiddie porn (!!!) AND shooter laptop missing hard drive (!!!!) because it's all obviously connected. :rolleyes: Sure, it's a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma wrapped in bacon. I know, people need a reason for something so senseless. But come on. A traumatized Mexican man drives from LV to Mexico (5hrs to SD border) to see his family, a criminal pulls a drive from his laptop (screwdriver + 2min) and chucks it into the nearest trashcan, and a guy wanted by the police for three years stupidly appears on TV and gets busted. Shocking.

[Malamute]

... a guy wanted by the police for three years stupidly appears on TV and gets busted. Shocking.

Wait, was that the same brother that was on TV? I had heard on the radio it was a different brother that had been under investigation for some time before Vegas.

Edit: just searched it,
Another brother, Eric Paddock, spoke to media following the shooting but Bruce Paddock did not.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/25/las-vegas-mass-shooter-stephen-paddocks-brother-arrested-for-child-porn.html

[SamAdams]

Maybe someone in LE can shed light on this. Is it unusual for a witness to a homicide (much less the biggest mass shooting in U.S. history) not be told to stick in the country for awhile ? Or do they figure they can have Mexican authorities pick him up if need be ?


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[modrecoil]

Wait, was that the same brother that was on TV? I had heard on the radio it was a different brother that had been under investigation for some time before Vegas.

Edit: just searched it,

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/25/las-vegas-mass-shooter-stephen-paddocks-brother-arrested-for-child-porn.html
Not sure about that being THE brother on TV but NBC News contradicts Fox News about media statements. Who the heck knows.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-s-brother-custody-child-porn-probe-n811461


At the time of the mass shooting on Oct. 1 that left 58 dead, Bruce Paddock told NBC News that he had not been in touch with his brother Stephen for 10 years and had no idea why the professional gambler would have opened fire on music festival attendees from his room at the Mandalay Bay.
"I don't know how he could stoop to this low point, hurting someone else. It wasn't suicide by cop since he killed himself," he said at the time. "He killed a bunch of people and then killed himself so he didn't have to face whatever it was."
It was Bruce Paddock who revealed that their father was a bank robber who once made the FBI's most-wanted list and was judged by authorities to be "psychopathic" with "suicidal tendencies."

[HCM]

Maybe someone in LE can shed light on this. Is it unusual for a witness to a homicide (much less the biggest mass shooting in U.S. history) not be told to stick in the country for awhile ? Or do they figure they can have Mexican authorities pick him up if need be ?


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That is a TV movie thing.

No reason to, unless they are a hostile / unccoprative witness in which case authorities would have to articulate that sufficiently to obtain a material witness order or warrant from a judge to detain them.

[HCM]

There were four Paddock brother.ls.

The brother in Florida who made the majority of the statements to the media was Eric. He was also the one closest to the shooter.

Bruce and the other brother were estranged from the shooter.

[UNM1136]

That is a TV movie thing.

No reason to, unless they are a hostile / unccoprative witness in which case authorities would have to articulate that sufficiently to obtain a material witness order or warrant from a judge to detain them.

HCM hit it on the head. What control do we have over a free citizen to come and go as he/she pleases? Particularly when we want them sweet and well disposed to us whe we need multiple interviews. Tom was also right that if it were many of us we would be intentionally hard to find, too. Locally we had a judge very recently issue a a material witness warrant for a witness to the murder of a police officer when she did not show up for a couple of hearings. Once she was located she was arrested, booked, and held for 48 hours. The DA's office had that much time to interview her for thier case. It was the first material witness warrant I have seen in 18 years of law enforcement in this state. I am sure the feds do it more often, with different rules, but still...Our society/court system has a big enough problem locking up convicted criminals, let alone witnesses.

pat

[Josh Runkle]

RE: Mexico

Do you know how many 10’s of thousands of people have fought off PTSD by going to see a Zonkey Show?


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[HCM]

RE: Mexico

Do you know how many 10’s of thousands of people have fought off PTSD by going to see a Zonkey Show?


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Uh... wow - I got nothing.

[luckyman]

RE: Mexico

Do you know how many 10’s of thousands of people have fought off PTSD by going to see a Zonkey Show?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have no idea what aZonkey show is and no I'm not about to google it on a company owned device.

[Josh Runkle]

I have no idea what aZonkey show is and no I'm not about to google it on a company owned device.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tijuana_Zebra


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[PhillySoldier]

Has statistics ever came out to this incident in regards to the amount killed/hurt directly by gunfire compared to those hurt just trying to escape? Id really like to see this as well as a total number of bullets fired

[SpyderMan2k4]

Has statistics ever came out to this incident in regards to the amount killed/hurt directly by gunfire compared to those hurt just trying to escape? Id really like to see this as well as a total number of bullets firedI was just thinking this yesterday. I'd love to know.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[luckyman]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tijuana_Zebra


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Oh. I guess I need to get my mind out of the gutter then [emoji3]

[scjbash]

Has statistics ever came out to this incident in regards to the amount killed/hurt directly by gunfire compared to those hurt just trying to escape? Id really like to see this as well as a total number of bullets fired

I've seen various numbers putting the wounded by gunfire anywhere from 102 to 124.

[PhillySoldier]

I've seen various numbers putting the wounded by gunfire anywhere from 102 to 124.

Thanks. If thats the case then more direct damage was done by the miami club shooter w a semiautomatic then the vegas shooting fully automatic into a crowd of thousands.

[Totem Polar]

Campos probably went south of the border to get away from racist math for a while.

[WobblyPossum]

Greg Ellifritz just posted a link to this video on his blog: https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000005473328/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-12-bursts.html?emc=eta1

The NY Times tried to put together a timeline of the shooting using open source video.

[blues]

Campos probably went south of the border to get away from racist math for a while.

Your theory adds up.

[Chance]

Greg Ellifritz just posted a link to this video on his blog: https://www.nytimes.com/video/us/100000005473328/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-12-bursts.html?emc=eta1

The NY Times tried to put together a timeline of the shooting using open source video.

Phenomenal work by the team at The New York Times. Must watch.

It seems like the attack could have been far worse if Paddock had stayed focused.

[DallasBronco]

Your theory adds up.

I see what you did there. :D

[HCM]

Las Vegas shooting: Officer fired weapon in Paddock's suite, sheriff says


A Las Vegas police officer accidentally fired his gun in Stephen Paddock’s suite the night of the mass shooting, the department’s sheriff said Monday, breaking more than two weeks of silence and confirming for the first time that an officer fired his weapon during the Oct. 1 incident.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/31/las-vegas-shooting-officer-fired-weapon-in-paddocks-suite-sheriff-says.html

[holmes168]

Dredging this back after talking to my wife about it this morning. Does anyone think we got all the questions answered yet?

[Trukinjp13]

Dredging this back after talking to my wife about it this morning. Does anyone think we got all the questions answered yet?

I would say no. Not at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Totem Polar]

Not much new info out there in the open lit.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/what-weve-learned-in-2-months-since-las-vegas-shooting/

[hufnagel]

the fact it's been memory holed like this tells me they couldn't find anything they could bludgeon us gun owners with.

[SamAdams]

the fact it's been memory holed like this tells me they couldn't find anything they could bludgeon us gun owners with.

Yep.

Two months ago if you’d have said ‘the greatest mass shooting in the nation’s history’ would be sent down the memory hole by now, most people wouldn’t have believe it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Chance]

No charges for gunman's girlfriend. From BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-42754289):


Police say they do not expect to file charges against the girlfriend of a gunman who killed 58 people in Las Vegas in October.

Marilou Danley, girlfriend of gunman Stephen Paddock, had previously been named a person of interest in the case.

Sheriff Joe Lombardo told a news conference that police still did not know the motive for the mass shooting.

[HCM]

Preliminary report from LVMPD -

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/new-report-details-las-vegas-gunmans-internet-search-history/

[Totem Polar]

Preliminary report from LVMPD -

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/new-report-details-las-vegas-gunmans-internet-search-history/

Interesting. The hardest takeaway on this big event for many people may well be that sometimes bad things just happen. Weirdos gotta weird, I guess.

[OlongJohnson]

Full report is here. Scribd takes value, rather than adding it.

https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1_October_FIT_Report_01-18-2018_Footnoted.pdf

[HCM]

Full report is here. Scribd takes value, rather than adding it.

https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1_October_FIT_Report_01-18-2018_Footnoted.pdf

Thanks, I was looking for that.

[HCM]

Interesting. The hardest takeaway on this big event for many people may well be that sometimes bad things just happen. Weirdos gotta weird, I guess.

Two interesting points -

Both the suspect and his brother being into child porn and there is supposedly another person of interest who is not the girlfriend.

[Casual Friday]

Two interesting points -

Both the suspect and his brother being into child porn and there is supposedly another person of interest who is not the girlfriend.

One of the "theories" early on was with him being a pilot and possibly involved in human/child trafficking.

[HCM]

One of the "theories" early on was with him being a pilot and possibly involved in human/child trafficking.

I don't know about all that but it is indicative of him being evil and selfish enough to be capable of pretty much anything.

[HCM]

Dealer arrested for making, selling armor piercing ammo to Las Vegas shooter


http://www.guns.com/2018/02/05/dealer-arrested-for-making-selling-las-vegas-shooter-armor-piercing-ammo/

[Hambo]

Dealer arrested for making, selling armor piercing ammo to Las Vegas shooter


http://www.guns.com/2018/02/05/dealer-arrested-for-making-selling-las-vegas-shooter-armor-piercing-ammo/

I read the complaint and it looks like they own his ass. Not that it would help with the forensic evidence that he loaded and sold it, but talking without a lawyer was a pretty stupid play.

[HCM]

I read the complaint and it looks like they own his ass. Not that it would help with the forensic evidence that he loaded and sold it, but talking without a lawyer was a pretty stupid play.


The complaint:
http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Douglas-Haig-Charge.pdf

[WobblyPossum]

The complaint:
http://14544-presscdn-0-64.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Douglas-Haig-Charge.pdf

That’s about as cut and dried as it gets.


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[Baldanders]

To me, this is the takeaway from every mass shooting. I teach a couple of chapters of "Columbine" to my students, and that book pretty much proves four things:
1) 90% of what "everyone knows" about the Columbine shooting is utterly false, and is based on shoddy early reporting on the incident. (They weren't bullied, they had no trouble with girls beyond the norm for teenagers (they both had dates for the prom, Klebold had a girlfriend at the time of the shooting), they had plenty of friends, they weren't part of a "Trench Coat Mafia," they weren't "Goths", etc, etc.)
2) Harris was a murderous sociopath who fantasized about killing most of the human race, in writing and on the web. His parents were well aware that he was possibly a danger and spent much time trying to get him to stop being a little bomb building asshat. His greatest complaint was having to do probation when he got caught breaking into a van with Klebold. The massacre was somehow revenge for this terrible indignity to him.
3) Klebold was a troubled young man, but it seems likely he would have never gone to such violent extremes if he hadn't been best friends with Harris.
4)The only thing that might prevent such massacres in the future is taking violent threats VERY seriously, especially a continual history of such. THERE IS NO MAGIC BULLET FOR EVIL. SOME PEOPLE ENJOY DOING EVIL.

And my take away? WHY SPEND TIME GOING OVER THE DETAILS OF EVIL PEOPLE'S LIVES HOPING TO FIND THE MAGIC BULLET TO EVIL? IT DOESN'T EXIST!!

If anyone's wondering, I spend very little time on the killers of Columbine in my class. We talk about the victims.

PS this was supposed to be a reply to the "weirdos gotta weird" post

[TDA]

I’m having some issues coping with the banality of evil here. This is dumber than those shotshells full of fishooks from the Firequest catalog. What the hell?

[Totem Polar]

...this was supposed to be a reply to the "weirdos gotta weird" post

For what it’s worth, I think we’re pretty much on the same page on this one.

[CS Tactical]

VIDEO: Newly Released Surveillance Shows Las Vegas Shooter Preparing
https://www.themaven.net/bluelivesmatter/news/video-newly-released-surveillance-shows-las-vegas-shooter-preparing-g57NG5qGPE23Y-YNqNwejA?full=1

[CS Tactical]

Las Vegas police release some Oct. 1 body camera footage – VIDEO
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/las-vegas-police-release-some-oct-1-body-camera-footage-video/

[Chance]

The investigation has concluded with no motive found. From NPR (https://www.npr.org/2018/08/03/635507299/las-vegas-shooting-investigation-closed-no-motive-found):


Police investigating the October 2017 deadly mass shooting in Las Vegas said they've been able to answer the "who, what, when, where and how" of the massacre, but as the end of the probe was announced on Friday, officials still could not explain the "why."

"The goal of our investigation all along was to provide the public with the clearest picture possible of the events leading up to Oct. 1, as well as motive," Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo told reporters at news conference. "What we have not been able to definitively answer is the 'Why Stephen Paddock committed this act?'" he said.

The public briefing coincided with the anticipated release of the 187-page report prepared by the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department's Force Investigation Team. It is the culmination of a 10-month investigation of the shootings that left 58 people dead and hundreds more injured at an outdoor country music concert.

Lombardo confirmed that 64-year-old Paddock acted alone when he fired a hail of bullets out the window of his hotel room at the Mandalay Bay Hotel and Resort. The sheriff also quashed all rumors of conspiracies. "There's been no other gunman identified," he said, adding that the department does not anticipate charging any other individuals.

[Totem Polar]

Interesting. The hardest takeaway on this big event for many people may well be that sometimes bad things just happen. Weirdos gotta weird, I guess.

[OlongJohnson]

Google sends you to Scribd. Kitten Scribd. They appear to be little more than a PI harvesting scheme to get you to sign up to download freely available documents.

Here's a real link to the report.

https://www.lvmpd.com/en-us/Documents/1-October-FIT-Criminal-Investigative-Report-FINAL_080318.pdf

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The search for motive is similar to the one for why Anthony Bourdain killed himself. Who knows?

One can speculate that shooter had the 'warrior death' suicide pattern. Wants to die (suffering from depression, failed life?) but not as a lone loser shooting himself. Wants to go down after taking down people showing that he is powerful. Wants to make a statement about society (which we may not understand). In his or her own mind, thinks his or her action teaches society a 'lesson' or just wants revenge for something as payback.

However, who knows? Hindsight is not the best analyst.

[NEPAKevin]

Occam's razor: Poddock was an asshole.

[FNFAN]

I find it interesting that after the scrutiny of his personal documents and correspondence, internet history, phone contacts and call history everyone is just saying, "Gosh, we can't figure out what made this guy tick." Perhaps he took pains to sanitize everything before hand. I don't know. Just seems strange.

[OlongJohnson]

Has it occurred to anyone else that this guy had the cash flow and could have passed the background checks to present himself as a FA collector and done this crime with real machine guns? He didn't need bump stocks.

[Chance]

The FBI has concluded their investigation (https://apnews.com/00b90ac3e97a41c3b3c078855b32d75f?cid=ed_npd_bn_tw_ bn). No motive.

[Totem Polar]

The FBI has concluded their investigation (https://apnews.com/00b90ac3e97a41c3b3c078855b32d75f?cid=ed_npd_bn_tw_ bn). No motive.

Pretty weird, in all. Either the guy carried that internal shit around for a half-century of adult life in secret, or his brain changed at some point, or a combo of both.

[s0nspark]

Pretty weird, in all. Either the guy carried that internal shit around for a half-century of adult life in secret, or his brain changed at some point, or a combo of both.

It makes me wonder if he expected anyone to figure it out or if this was just his way of saying "F you all!"

[rob_s]

It makes me wonder if he expected anyone to figure it out or if this was just his way of saying "F you all!"

maybe he just didn't like the noise...

[Trigger]

Cue the conspiracy theories in 3, 2, 1,

[NEPAKevin]

I'm sticking with my hypothesis in post 177 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27957-Vegas-Shooting-Facts-Thread&p=770368&viewfull=1#post770368).

[Trigger]

I'm sticking with my hypothesis in post 177 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27957-Vegas-Shooting-Facts-Thread&p=770368&viewfull=1#post770368).

Valid!

[Totem Polar]

I'm sticking with my hypothesis in post 177 (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27957-Vegas-Shooting-Facts-Thread&p=770368&viewfull=1#post770368).

Probably as solid a theory as any.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Might have said this before: Suicide for some reason with a vengeance and dying like a warrior motif.

Never know why suicide is the plan for some folks.