ND Incident report: A serious look at dummy rounds and dummies in general

[45dotACP]

Disclaimer: I am a total idiot and deserve the ridicule but I thought there was a lesson to be learned here. Call me stupid if you want, you certainly have the supporting evidence. Flame on.

So...can you tell something is wrong here? That is a .45 caliber hole in my 1/4 scale dry fire target.

It was not put there on purpose.

It was put there about five minutes ago. Nobody is hurt, my ears are still ringing and I'm still wondering how I could be so dumb. The bullet was absorbed in the mass of unwanted textbooks in my basement and a concrete wall lies behind the textbooks, so it wasn't a total fuckup. But a fuckup it was.

My dry fire routine typically involves the use of "dummy cartridges" to simulate weight in the magazine to make my practice reloads similar to live fire. I typically made them myself out of an expended case without powder or primer or bullet. See where this is going?

An old reloaded round was laying next to the dummy round on my desk. Picked up my "dummy rounds" and loaded them into the mag, I failed to verify that one round in the bunch was in fact a live round. Probability provided the circumstances that led to it being the topmost round. Practice an unloaded start and SUR-FUCKING-PRISE.

Boom. The unexpected loud noise.

I cleared my firearm, set it down, examined myself for holes, found the bullet in a book and said "fuck". Also noticed that my dog was fine and didn't even seem to be alarmed that I had just discharged my firearm in the house. Lazy bum.

So. Incident report is completed. Summary of suggestions is as follows.

1. Dummy rounds are NOT to be made by me on the loading press. Just buy the snap caps. Dummy rounds should NOT look like real ammo.

2. Live ammo is to NEVER be left loose on the table, near the dummy rounds or accessible when dry firing. Should be a given. It wasn't the case. That was a mistake.

3. I practice with a backstop. It was effective at stopping the travel of the bullet. I shudder to think about what would have happened if not. DRY FIRE WITH A BACKSTOP.

4. Probably shouldn't dry fire late at night when I'm tired and my focus is decreased. practice will not be good.

This was not a "didn't verify the gun was empty" gun accident. I intentionally loaded aimed and fired the gun...it just wasn't dry fire.

I subscribe to a notion or a "Swiss cheese model" in that there are holes in a stack of Swiss cheese that line up and let bad things happen if enough are aligned. I had enough holes in model for a shot to be fired. Not enough holes for the bullet to cause injury or travel through the walls or my home. Thank God for that.

Any other suggestions on how to be safer, criticisms of my vast idiocy, concerns about further holes in my model, jokes about the stopping power of .45s or laffs about my shot placement (I mean...A zone hit tho right?) are welcome. I'm thinking dry fire maybe just be totally empty mags? I'm a little nervy about inert cartridges at the moment.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171004/addf0ee5d9c3a9733ce0923147f27b45.jpg

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[HopetonBrown]

I'm glad no one was hurt. We're about 3 months out from celebrating the only perfect person's birthday, so we're all potential candidates for this. I have a dedicated dry fire Glock using a Safariland training barrel and Dry Fire Mag. For practicing reloads, I have dedicated dry fire magazines with orange Vickers baseplates. I use ST Action Pro snap caps with neon yellow "bullets". The snap caps only go into magazines with the orange baseplates when dry firing, and live ammo does not go into orange baseplate magazines. I do not use magazines with black baseplate for dry fire. Thank you for sharing your incident.

[ASH556]

Silver lining: it's an alpha!

[Nephrology]

Silver lining: it's an alpha!

Literally scrolled down hoping to have been the first to post this.

edit: yeah, get snap caps. Ideally ones that are high-viz. It would probably still be fine to reload your own if you immediately spray painted them orange or something. but otherwise, yeah, get snap caps. I use ETS mags I got for free as my dedicated dry fire mags, which I find helpful too.

also, don't feel that dumb. I've had an ND before under similar but even more stupid circumstances. It's OK. Just make it your last.

[SC_Dave]

I salute you for posting this. It serves as a reminder to all of us that regardless of our safety procedures we cannot let our vigilance wan. I'm glad no one was hurt and nothing of value was destroyed. Your take-aways are valuable to all of us, thank you for posting it.

It also validates for me why I put my dry fire targets on the basement wall that is below the outside soil level.
David

[Artemas2]

Live and learn. Good that you had a proper safe back stop.

I keep multiple dedicated magazines(always empty) for dryfire that I load with snap caps which are always loaded from and returned to their factory clam shell.

[GJM]

I put a .45 sized hole through the basement door into the garage twenty years ago, and covered it with a paster as a reminder. Red snap caps are the only cartridge looking things that go into my dry fire guns now.

[gomerpyle]

Im glad to hear that youre unhurt. And thank you for the reminder.

J

[JohnO]

Literally scrolled down hoping to have been the first to post this.


Yeah, me too.

I have these. However they are significantly lighter than actual rounds.
http://www.stactionpro.com/bmz_cache/4/43ba4b8a0f364ec5a34b00dce1ca601d.image.251x240.JPG

[SAWBONES]

Good job for obeying "Rule 2".

We all make mistakes sometimes, and good no one came to harm.

[Peally]

If you use no-powder rounds always confirm there's a hole in the case and the primer is blown when you load them in. Additionally, the top round should be something highly visible yet good for reloads (like the mentioned orange snap caps) and the one in the pipe should be stupid visible (those retail store red ones are far better for this as their case section isn't silver).

Dummy rounds should either be made on a press or purchased retail for their actual weight, otherwise they're completely useless. The whole idea is you have lead weighing your gear down properly. Other than that backstop = good, no live ammo = good, and no practice when you're tired = good since you won't get much out of it. Live and learn.



Also, while it was an A it looks like you flinched a little low left.

[hufnagel]

Good reminder to reinforce the rule of always make sure what you're loading is a dummy, and to clear all live ammo from the area before loading or dry firing. I continue to make a point of locking any and all live ammo in the safe or locking cabinets before commencing dry fire practice. I inspect each round and say out loud "is this a live round or a dummy? (inspect and pause) it is indeed a dummy" before loading it in the magazine, regardless of the looks I get from the wife on occasion.

As for weighting the magazine, I've been wrestling with that problem myself. It was part of the reason I noted the dummy ammo in silver or copper rounds to use as weight. I'm now also considering painting the body of the mag(s) I use all the time for dry fire a different color. something bright and obnoxious I think.

I too am glad no one was hurt physically.

And to everyone who's pointed out he flinched low and left during an "I fucked up" thread... you're assholes, but my kind of assholes. :D

[BehindBlueI's]

I made dummy rounds for practicing reloading a revolver. I "painted" the bullets black with a permanent marker. I tried fingernail polish, but it was too thick and actually interfered with loading.

[scw2]

I'm thinking that loading up a mag with dummy rounds, leaving the top round as a high viz snap cap, then epoxying the whole thing so rounds are permanently attached to the dummy mag, and then painting the entire mag body a different color could help alleviate a lot of potential problems. Still not foolproof, but that could help add a few layers of safety to the whole thing.

[JV_]

FWIW: SIRT's training mags have internal weights and can be adjusted if you want something heavier and lighter. They work in real Glocks ...

But, it won't take the dummy round.

[psalms144.1]

Thanks for sharing, and welcome to the Inglorious Club.

For those of us without the scratch to own dedicated dry fire weapons, the next best bet is dedicated dry fire magazines and OBVIOUSLY dummy training rounds/snap caps. I love the idea of "dry fire" magazines with easily identifiable bases, and ONLY using those magazines for dry fire. I applaud the attempt to make your dry fire as close to realistic by using "weighted" dummy rounds, but, sometimes too much of a good thing is too much.

Good on you for having a good backstop. Let us know when your heart rate gets under 100 and you stop shaking.

[nalesq]

It would probably still be fine to reload your own if you immediately spray painted them orange or something.

I spray painted self made dummies before, and they eventually started flaking little bits of paint in the chamber and other parts of the weapon, which sort of melted into a hard to clean patina when the weapon got hot from live fire. Based on this experience, I don’t recommend going the spray paint route.


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[Malamute]

I painted the bullet part of my revolver snap caps neon orange, and been planning on doing the edge of the rims also so I can see from the side easily. Should be possible to paint enough of dummy rounds to make them instantly identifiable but not interfere with loading or function. Perhaps someone can experiment and report back. I like the idea of bright colors rather than sharpie marks. Sharpie marks wear off on rifle rounds Ive used them on to ID the loads.

On a side note, Ive used colored paint around primers on some pistol loads to make them easy to ID the load type when opening the cylinder or seeing them in a speed loader or belt. Similar for speed loaders, one color for a particular frame size.

[scw2]

I believe Dove treated either the bullets or casings chemically so the color was different when he made his own weighted snapcaps. Can't find the post now though...

[Chance]

Yeah, don't feel stupid. I've come within a hair's breadth of an ND twice. The most rabid shooter I know likes to say, "There are two types of shooters: those that have NDd, and those that will."

[Darth_Uno]

I'm now also considering painting the body of the mag(s) I use all the time for dry fire a different color. something bright and obnoxious I think.



All my Glocks are 19's or 17's. I horse traded around for a 22 which I only wanted for the frame, painted the mags pink and pulled the followers out. They're my dedicated dryfire/reload mags.

[Gater]

Very glad no one was hurt, and thank you for sharing this with us--it is an excellent reminder to us all.

They aren't perfect and they seem expensive for what they are, but I bought weighted Rings blue gun magazines to use for dry fire--many models are available through Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Rings-Training-Weighted-Glock-Magazine/dp/B007RJSMBG/ref=sr_1_2?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1507150228&sr=1-2&keywords=blue+gun+magazine+weighted+glock

I have one for a G19 and one for a G26: I believe the newer one of the two was molded with the follower pinned.

As discussed in another thread, I also use a Laserlyte laser training cartridge: https://www.amazon.com/LaserLyte-LT-9-Laser-Trainer-9MM/dp/B004NKY23E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1507150306&sr=8-1&keywords=laserlyte+laser+trainer+cartridge

Different schools of thought on the utility of the lasers in dry fire, but on the safety front it is chambered, does not look like a conventional cartridge due to the rubber base, and (unlike a dummy round) does not extract until you manually push it out with a tool (pencil, etc.). In addition to all the other dry fire rules, I start a session out by locking the slide to the rear and verifying the blue follower and then pressing the "primer" of the chambered laser cartridge with my finger and verifying the laser splash in the safe direction. They make it in .45, 9mm, .380, and 5.56mm.

[Cory]

Rethinking a silencer for home defense? Every time I've fired a weapon in doors it has left my bell ringing for days, of course I was too good for ear pro. Probably why I now have tinnitus. The fact most of it was 5.56 blanks probably didn't help.

I keep all my ammo outside the room I practice in. Right now, that is my biggest safety precaution.
I use bright red snap caps in my Glock.
I verify snap caps (or clear with my 1911) before every dry fire.
My plan moving forward is a dedicated dry fire weapon, that isn't my carry or HD gun. I do not yet have that safety measure in place.

My current home doesn't allow for a safe backstop in any direction. I'm currently saving for a safe, which will become one. Perhaps in the meantime, I should consider moving my bookshelves around. If you don't mind me asking, was this 230gr ball? I'm kind of surprised with your bookshelf performance as a backstop.

This is hard stuff to post. I wouldn't have. You were a jackass, and nobody knows it better than you. Do your best to get as close to this routine as possible. It's the best anyone can do.


Robust Dry Practice Safety Principles and Procedure (the closer you follow this, the fewer opportunities you will have to ND)


Principles:

Allow no distractions – focus exclusively on the task at hand

Keep muzzle in a safe direction

Use correct trigger finger discipline

Verify no live ammo in gun, on person, or in the dry practice area

Use dedicated dry practice targets that are put away until you consciously choose to begin dry practice, and taken down when you consciously end dry practice

Use dedicated dry practice magazines and dummy rounds/inert training cartridges that stay in the dry practice area (if you use any magazine or cartridges)


Procedure:

Unload gun in a location other than the dry practice area

Leave live ammo, and magazines with live ammo, completely outside the dry practice area

Enter the dry practice area

Verify gun is unloaded, that any magazines do not contain live ammo, and that any cartridges present are inert/dummy cartridges

Consciously choose to begin dry practice

Put up dry practice targets

Do your dry practice

Take down dry practice targets and put them away

Consciously choose to end dry practice

Exit the dry practice area and do something unrelated for a few minutes

Return gun to location and condition of your choosing

[Leroy]

Dedicated magazines for dryfire, dummy rounds colored, never use those mags for anything else, leave them loaded.

[Lester Polfus]

Thank you for reminding me that anybody can fuck up, including me.

I'm glad you're ok.

[Dave J]

Thanks for sharing this as a reminder, and good on you for being diligent enough to use a solid backstop.

FWIW, I've made a few weighted training mags in the past by putting a chunk of rectangular steel rod down in near the bottom (secured by epoxy or RTV), with a shortened mag spring and follower resting on top of the steel, so it's still functional for snap caps, albeit at a much reduced capacity (which I don't see as a problem for dry fire). The ones I made that way were for Glocks, but the concept would work be for most other guns.

[Cool Breeze]

Glad everyone is OK.

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[45dotACP]

Rethinking a silencer for home defense? Every time I've fired a weapon in doors it has left my bell ringing for days, of course I was too good for ear pro. Probably why I now have tinnitus. The fact most of it was 5.56 blanks probably didn't help.

I keep all my ammo outside the room I practice in. Right now, that is my biggest safety precaution.
I use bright red snap caps in my Glock.
I verify snap caps (or clear with my 1911) before every dry fire.
My plan moving forward is a dedicated dry fire weapon, that isn't my carry or HD gun. I do not yet have that safety measure in place.

My current home doesn't allow for a safe backstop in any direction. I'm currently saving for a safe, which will become one. Perhaps in the meantime, I should consider moving my bookshelves around. If you don't mind me asking, was this 230gr ball? I'm kind of surprised with your bookshelf performance as a backstop.

This is hard stuff to post. I wouldn't have. You were a jackass, and nobody knows it better than you. Do your best to get as close to this routine as possible. It's the best anyone can do.

It was a handloaded 230gr coated bullet. Probably chucking 750fps and the round traversed two physics books (life isn't without it's irony) from the spine forward.

The concrete wall behind had a smudge of the Blue Bullets polymer coating but no other signs of cracks or dents so I think the books absorbed most of the velocity. But it would've punched through dry wall I think.

I might suggest a dry fire gun or slide with a deactivated firing pin? Lord knows that's what I feel I ought to start doing.

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[Darth_Uno]

It was a handloaded 230gr coated bullet. Probably chucking 750fps and the round traversed two physics books (life isn't without it's irony) from the spine forward.


God has a sense of humor. I'm certain of it.

[OlongJohnson]

I've contemplated loading up some of my own dummies, but having the cases look the same as live ammo just doesn't pass my personal Murphy filter.

I've tried to find some kind of durable conversion coating that would change the color of copper or brass, but not come up with anything. Bright blue cases would be a good clue.

Until I figure that out, I'll continue with the orange or blue plastic snap caps.

[beenalongtime]

I have looked at those rounds that are effectively non powder/primer reloads, with plastic. I like the weight idea, but haven't done it for different reasons. I have considered using empty casings/fired, and trying to epoxy weights in them, but plan on always having one of the typical red snap caps on top.
Besides that, I have and often use a laserlyte in my pistol for dryfire.
LEO relative recommended using some spent casings, randomly for bad round practice, and for dryfire practice.