M&P 9mm Accuracy Problem

[Corey]

I have an M&P 9mm full size that I bought in May and has almost 6,000 rounds through it. Stock except for Apex DCEAK installed in October. Just recently experienced a severe loss of accuracy with the pistol. It was never as accurate as I would have liked, but was accurate enough. It also always shot better with 147 grain bullets. I noticed over about the last two weeks my scores on some drills getting worse. Then a shot an informal match last week that included a stage with steel plates out to 20 yards. I could not hit the plates! After the match I borrowed a pistol from another guy (Springfield XD) and hit the 20 yard plates every time. So I went to the range Wednesday night with a box of American Eagle 115 grain and shot from a sandbag rest at 25 yards. 10 shots fired and only 4 holes in the target (8 ½ x 11 paper). I borrowed a range Glock 17 and shot about a 3-4” group with the same ammo. Then I got out my carry ammo (Winchester Ranger-T 147 grain) and tried it. 2” group with the Glock, 7 hits scattered around the paper with the M&P. All the holes are round, no keyholing but no discernible grouping. As near as I can tell the pattern is centered, not noticeably high so I don’t think it the early unlocking problem some have had.

I took the gun apart at home and cannot find any obvious cause, no unusual wear or damage. Called Smith & Wesson yesterday and they are sending a shipping label to return the gun. Any of you guys have a guess as to the cause or seen something like this before? The fact that it was shooting fine and the accuracy suddenly went away seems to indicate something broke or suddenly wore out but the barrel, slide, and locking block look fine. I will update when I get the gun back from S&W and find out what they say, but I wanted to put the info out there and see if anyone else has had this happen.

[LittleLebowski]

Crown or wear exacerbated lockup problems would be my guess.

[Savage Hands]

Have you replaced the recoil spring yet? I've seen a similar post from another guy of how it degraded at about that round count, he replaced the recoil spring and the accuracy came back.

[Corey]

Barrel crown is fine, still on original recoil spring. I read elsewhere of a couple cases of accuracy loss that were fixed with a new recoil spring, but the ones I heard about started unlocking early and shooting high. My guess is unusual wear causing lockup problems.

[DocGKR]

Replace the recoil spring and check. If the gun is still not working adequately, contact S&W and demand a satisfactory repair.

[Corey]

I don't have a spare recoil spring handy for it, but will see if I can come up with one. S&W already has a return shipping label on the way to me. Their customer service is usually pretty good in my experience, I just wish it wasn't as necessary.

[SteveK]

Check the barrel. I've actually seen two M&Ps that developed cracks just forward of the hood.

[JDM]

Check the barrel. I've actually seen two M&Ps that developed cracks just forward of the hood.
Do you have photos, or more information to share? I've never heard of this, and I'm quite curious.

[SteveK]

Do you have photos, or more information to share? I've never heard of this, and I'm quite curious.

No I don't. However, I saw both with a group we shoot on Sundays with. One was owned by a gentleman who I don't know really well so I couldn't vouch as to the variables, but the other one belonged to a dude who is totally squared away and had more than likely had a significant number of rounds through the gun. Both had catastrophic cracks at the end of the barrel hood.

[orionz06]

I have seen pics of more than one broken M&P barrel.

[Spr1]

I have seen pics of more than one broken M&P barrel.
The earlier barrels had a groove around the transition between the cylindrical barrel and the hood. Exactly like what you would do on purpose to create a stress riser which would lead to a failure...... Oopsies......

Given the barrel geometry allowing early unlocking on the 9's, the spring force in battery becomes more critical.

[WDW]

This seems to be a common problem w/M&P9F's. Most likely a lock up issue. Many have abandoned the platform in that caliber over this. You could send it in, but that usually doesn't seem to work w/this problem.

[Savage Hands]

This seems to be a common problem w/M&P9F's. Most likely a lock up issue. Many have abandoned the platform in that caliber over this. You could send it in, but that usually doesn't seem to work w/this problem.


But he had acceptable accuracy previously, I think a fresh recoil spring would have brought it back to what it was.
If a particular gun does have the early unlocking problem, a wore out recoil spring will amplify the problem.

[Pennzoil]

I just ran into this with my M&P 9mm FS last month after failing hard at DOTW 11 bullseye three way (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2454-DotW-11-Bullseye-Three-Way/page2)with my M&P that I've been using exclusively for awhile now. It used to group great at 25yds in the past but not anymore. I tried the drill again with Winchester 124 NATO, HST, and my reloads that mimic Winchester Nato all with about the same result.

I think in my case it's the wear on the front of the barrel hood which appears to of lost some metal and it's edge. Here it is compared against my M&P compact back up with less rounds and the newer barrel design. I've been changing the recoil spring and trigger spring at 5k intervals.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9148/mpbarrelhood.jpg

I have to switch out my sights to stock and remove my APEX FSS before I send the gun back to S&W which I've called but didn't get a return label yet. I pushed it out due to holidays, work and family stuff. Anyone going to SHOT mind cornering someone from S&W about this 9mm accuracy deal and ask if they are planning on fixing it anytime soon?

[orionz06]

I doubt you will be able to talk to anyone that has any pull or will do anything. Your complaints will be forgotten shortly.

If my gun with the new slide comes back and is inaccurate I do plan on raising hell. They know the solution.

[EmanP]

If replacing the recoil spring with a new one fixes it, that proves that there is a larger issue that is being covered with the increased tension of the fresh recoil spring and that ultimately it's unlocking wrong.

[Spr1]

Exactly

[Corey]

I received the pistols back from S&W today. They put a new barrel in the full size gun. The Pro Series gun they sent a test target with a 5 shot group fired a 10 yards. It shot about a 2"'group at that distance. Letter with it says the gun meets factory specs and does not need service. I guess it is only intended to be used at close range as when I benched it at 25 yards the best 10 shot group I had was 6" while a stock Glock 17 with the same ammo at 25 yards was shooting groups the size of the 10 yard group they sent.

I will get to the range later this week and bench the full size again and report back. I have contact info for the regional sales manager for S&W for my area and he also teaches armorer classes for them. I will let him know about the Pro Series gun and see what he suggests. I would hate to have to wait for Apex to release their barrel and spend the money on that just to make it shoot as good as a standard Glock. On the other hand, I only paid $200 for the Pro Series, so I could have Apex make it shoot the way it is supposed too and still only be into it for about what a Pro Series gun retails for.

[GJM]

We need to scream bloody murder, and get S&W to get us 9's that shoot. Who is the top management at S&W?

[JHC]

The Pro Series gun they sent a test target with a 5 shot group fired a 10 yards. It shot about a 2"'group at that distance. Letter with it says the gun meets factory specs and does not need service. I guess it is only intended to be used at close range as when I benched it at 25 yards the best 10 shot group I had was 6" while a stock Glock 17 with the same ammo at 25 yards was shooting groups the size of the 10 yard group they sent.

I will get to the range later this week and bench the full size again and report back. I have contact info for the regional sales manager for S&W for my area and he also teaches armorer classes for them. I will let him know about the Pro Series gun and see what he suggests. I would hate to have to wait for Apex to release their barrel and spend the money on that just to make it shoot as good as a standard Glock. On the other hand, I only paid $200 for the Pro Series, so I could have Apex make it shoot the way it is supposed too and still only be into it for about what a Pro Series gun retails for.

Unload the thing at the next gunshow; test target with. Hey, it "meets factory specs".

Holy smokes I get tired of incessant internet laurels for S&W Customer Service being 2nd to none. But it is consistent. You can go back years on Brian Enos' site and read of folks getting no help for accuracy with these guns.

[Corey]

I agree. The M&P is a great platform in many ways except for the accuracy problems in 9mm. And speaking of accuracy, how does a single 5 shot group at 10 yards tell you anything about the accuracy of a pistol? But that is how they determined that there was no problem from their perspective.

[DocGKR]

Corey--That is an unacceptable response by S&W; I would definitely re-contact them and escalate the issue to a higher level.

[TCinVA]

Corey--That is an unacceptable response by S&W; I would definitely re-contact them and escalate the issue to a higher level.

This. Here's the thing about customer service: It's entirely dependent upon who you talk to. S&W as a company does try hard, in my experience...but that doesn't mean that everyone in the company goes above and beyond in the effort to take care of customers. Talking to a different person may get you different results.

This is an unfortunate requirement whether you're dealing with guns, computers, cell phones, or the transmission on a Chrysler.

[Bill Lance]

I admit to being not very mechanically inclined.

If the barrel lug/lock up is the problem, will an aftermarket--such as KKM fix the issue? I have invested quite a bit in this platform, and don't want to start over with something else.

Thank you very much in advance.

[orionz06]

In theory yes, but the aftermarket barrels available are not oversized enough to make an appreciable difference from what I have read.

I have 2 Storm Lake "match" barrels on the way to work with a few M&P's, I will post up with any results, or if S&W decides that I do in fact need to be able to hit the target.

[JV_]

A while back I called Storm Lake, they said it did not increase the lock time.

[orionz06]

A while back I called Storm Lake, they said it did not increase the lock time.

Given the money and time I have sunk into pissing with it I think the price of the barrels is minor. Best thing that could happen is it solves the problem, right?

[JV_]

Best thing that could happen is it solves the problem, right?Sure, but the flip side is that you could end up with something that doesn't shoot better than the factory barrel.

Personally, I'd send them back and hold out for BarSto/Apex locking block solution.

[orionz06]

Sure, but the flip side is that you could end up with something that doesn't shoot better than the factory barrel.

Personally, I'd send them back and hold out for BarSto/Apex locking block solution.

I will be buying a few Bar-Sto barrels when they come out.

[EmanP]

From personal experience useing a Storm Lake barrel in my failed M&P, the only thing is did was lower the velocity of the bullet by 10fps. No other differences.

[MangPol]

was not able to take photo of the target but i shot my M&P9 from 20meters 12 rounds total and all went in in a circle 6" diameter POI is POA standing, un-supported two handed grip...

ammunition used is re-load 125grain led heads and 3.8grains of vit...

no mods except APEX sear...

is this good enough accuracy out of my M&P?

[Leozinho]

was not able to take photo of the target but i shot my M&P9 from 20meters 12 rounds total and all went in in a circle 6" diameter POI is POA standing, un-supported two handed grip...

ammunition used is re-load 125grain led heads and 3.8grains of vit...

no mods except APEX sear...

is this good enough accuracy out of my M&P?

In my opinion, it's impossible to say because it's so relative. Have you shot groups with other pistols, and if so, what where they like?

If I could hold 2" groups with a Glock, then I would not be happy with 6" from from an M&P. But perhaps you shoot the same size groups with a Glock, CZ, etc . In that case, I think most here would be happy if their M&P could just replicate the accuracy of comparable pistols.

Edited to say: If you don't have another accurate gun to shoot and see what groups you are capable of shooting off hand, I'd shoot it from a rest and see if the groups tightened up. A little tighter and I'd probably be happy.

[orionz06]

From personal experience useing a Storm Lake barrel in my failed M&P, the only thing is did was lower the velocity of the bullet by 10fps. No other differences.

Pooling this and other comments from Brian Enos' forum allowed me to conclude that the Storm Lake barrels, while not out of this world, would not be worse. As I mentioned heading back and forth between the range to see how the gun shoots is getting costly by itself. It is my opinion that the money spent will not be wasted as I will know if it works. If I end up with an acceptable gun and have to use a $140 barrel so be it. I will have an acceptable gun. Constantly bitching about it online without putting effort into it is foolish.

[Savage Hands]

The Storm Lake may be less ammo picky at it's 1:16 twist.

[orionz06]

One of the two possibilities has me giving more money to S&W. I want to exhaust my options with warranty first.