50 State Friendly HD Long Gun for Travel

[StraitR]

Without muddying down the thread with too many details, my family and I are planning on traveling the country for the next few years in an RV while my wife does travel nursing. We want to see, and show the kids, as many federal and state parks as possible during and in between her 13-17 week contracts. The only "out of the question" states/locations will be in the Northeast (NY/NJ/CT/MA or anywhere that would require us to pass through). AR's are a no-go with some destinations out west that are definitely on our list, namely CA and CO.

Space and weight are limiting factors, so while multiple long guns are out, I would like to have one with us for HD, be that against two or four legged predators. There are several locations we want to visit that have bears, both black and brown. No hunting is planned, no rifle target shooting is planned, just a better HD option than pistols. FWIW, I'll be bringing a Wilson CCP 9mm, Baer TRS 45acp, S&W 638, and a 64' Ruger Bearcat, all 50 state friendly as far as capacity. Just renewed my FL resident CWL on Friday, so I'm good for another seven years in states with reciprocity, which I'll look into later.

So far, I'm leaning towards a 12ga for their effectiveness, versatility, and overall PC acceptance in the role of HD.

So, while leaving out idiotic states that want to imprison any non-resident caught with a firearm, what would your "one and only" 50 state friendly HD long gun choice be? Shotgun? Lever? Other?

[Totem Polar]

Beretta 1301 tactical, right out of the box (with possible exception of an aftermarket loading gate lever fix)? 18.5" with sights. What I don't know is if any states on the list would have issue with a semi-auto gauge; nothing surprises me any more. Just throwing it out there.

Personally, I'd look at any similar trip as an excuse to finally pony up for the 1301.

[Duelist]

Maybe a 12 or 20 gauge pump with two barrels, because I like to shoot clays, and the longer barrel works better for that. OTOH, space is at a premium. That being the case, a 20 gauge youth model pump would be my final answer: nothing and no one will walk off a slug or load of buck from one, kids can run it, it's smaller, ammo is light lighter and boxes for it are smaller.

[HCM]

12 gauge pump shotgun of your choice and /or some type of lever action rifle, either 39-30 or a 38/357.

Be advised in some states like NY mere possession of a handgun without the appropriate state license is a felony so I would not consider any handgun 50 state friendly unless you are LEOSA elidgible.

[SeriousStudent]

I have both.

A Winchester Model 12 shotgun that breaks down into two parts.

A Marlin 336Y youth model 30-30.

Both are compact, run well, and arouse very little of the "OMG evil assault weapon" hysteria. They just look like Grandpa's hunting guns.

Which they are.

[HCM]

I have both.

A Winchester Model 12 shotgun that breaks down into two parts.

A Marlin 336Y youth model 30-30.

Both are compact, run well, and arouse very little of the "OMG evil assault weapon" hysteria. They just look like Grandpa's hunting guns.

Which they are.

Truth. In this case, given the two .38 spl revolvers, a Marlin or Henry with an RDS and a light is a good option as well.

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Wow, I did not know CO had a deal with AR-15's... they are banned by name?

[StraitR]

Wow, I did not know CO had a deal with AR-15's... they are banned by name?

Colorado doesn't have an issue with AR's, but their standard capacity magazines. I believe 15 rounds is the limit. Either way, we're definitely heading to CA, which does have a specific issue with AR's.

ETA: I threw in Colorado as another example to show that, "take an AR and just don't go to CA" won't work when the family wants to see a lot of National and State parks. That, and CA and CO both have some of the best compensation plans for travel nurses.

[GyroF-16]

Wow, I did not know CO had a deal with AR-15's... they are banned by name?

Not as far as I know, and I live here... ARs (MSR) are fine- I see them all the time the range. There is a (virtually unenforceable) ban on magazines greater than 15 rds, but only on purchasing them in the state. No problem with bringing one in for use, as long as you don't sell it.

[StraitR]

Not as far as I know, and I live here... ARs (MSR) are fine- I see them all the time the range. There is a (virtually unenforceable) ban on magazines greater than 15 rds, but only on purchasing them in the state. No problem with bringing one in for use, as long as you don't sell it.

I didn't know that, thank you.

[GyroF-16]

Beretta 1301 tactical, right out of the box (with possible exception of an aftermarket loading gate lever fix)? 18.5" with sights. What I don't know is if any states on the list would have issue with a semi-auto gauge; nothing surprises me any more. Just throwing it out there.

Personally, I'd look at any similar trip as an excuse to finally pony up for the 1301.

X2!

I've had a 1301T for about a year now, and it would be my go-to long gun for travel.

[David S.]

I seem to recall hearing that Denver (city or county, not sure) has specific mag limits that don't apply to the rest of the state. Don't live or travel through CO, so I could be full of you-know-what.

Either shotgun or lever 44mag or 30-30 for me.

[Kevin B.]

I have been considering something similar and have decided on a 12 gauge 870 with rifle sights and wood furniture.

[Aray]

I have been considering something similar and have decided on a 12 gauge 870 with rifle sights and wood furniture.

This is an excellent solution.

[Malamute]

Shotguns just arent very far up on my personal interest list, but may be fine for what you want. The takedown model 12 turned out to be a pretty good travel gun, very compact to pack, about 20" when taken down.

Being more rifle oriented, and in the circumstances you mention, a Winchester model 94 carbine (20" barrel) or so-called trapper size (16" barrel) might be useful. If you like glass, a Marlin, or one of the angle eject Winchesters, made after about 1984 or so, would work. Good peep sight is a big step up, but glass helps quite a lot of course. 30-30 gives power and range that pistol calibers dont, and ammo is available nearly everywhere. Id still take a pistol caliber lever action over a shotgun, but thats just me.

[Bigghoss]

One of the other "PC" gun threads here got me thinking and for some reason I just couldn't get the idea out of my head of an ideal traveling gun project that would be 50 state friendly. I got myself a used Mossberg 500 from a local shop and picked up a used wood stock set for it for about $25 bucks. That alone makes it look so much more innocuous but eventually I'm going to get a 20" vent rib barrel for it which makes it look so much more like a plain hunting shotgun. The cool thing about the Mossberg is that the mag tube is threaded into the receiver and a mag cap from an 835 or 590 fits the threads so you can take the barrel and tube off and use the magazine cap to retain the spring and follower in the tube. Then you can fit it in your luggage if you want to take it into a hotel or something.

At some point I'm going to do the "tactical" lever action with a Marlin 336y or a 16" Mossberg 464. The CZ 527 can fit the role quite well also.

For a semi auto, Ruger makes a 16" Mini 14 without any provisions for a muzzle device.

[Screwball]

What I don't know is if any states on the list would have issue with a semi-auto gauge; nothing surprises me any more. Just throwing it out there.

NJ, a semi auto can only have one of the following; folding/collapsible stock, pistol grip, fixed magazine capacity more than 5, and a detachable magazine. If your semi auto shotgun has two or more, it is an "assault weapon" under NJ law. There are a few banned by name, as well

CA law, I'm pretty sure is very similar. No detachable magazines, pistol grip and folding/collapsible stock combo, or a revolving cylinder. There might be other states with similar laws, but can't see them being that much stricter.

[StraitR]

I have been considering something similar and have decided on a 12 gauge 870 with rifle sights and wood furniture.

My current choice, if I had to pick right now (I have 6-9 months), would be a Wilson Scattergun BP model. I feel like the pump is the most versatile due to the wide variety of ammo. I'm also familiar with the breakdown and maintenance of an 870. That being said, the M2 Field I had was extremely easy to completely disassemble, I'd say easier than the 870. My other leading option is an M2 Tactical with Comfortech stock like my Field had (not a PG stock fan).


Shotguns just arent very far up on my personal interest list, but may be fine for what you want. The takedown model 12 turned out to be a pretty good travel gun, very compact to pack, about 20" when taken down.

Being more rifle oriented, and in the circumstances you mention, a Winchester model 94 carbine (20" barrel) or so-called trapper size (16" barrel) might be useful. If you like glass, a Marlin, or one of the angle eject Winchesters, made after about 1984 or so, would work. Good peep sight is a big step up, but glass helps quite a lot of course. 30-30 gives power and range that pistol calibers dont, and ammo is available nearly everywhere. Id still take a pistol caliber lever action over a shotgun, but thats just me.

The 357/44mag 1894 is the only other long gun I had considered. I have a Aimpoint T-2 I could throw on it. I've not shot one in either caliber, but I'd image I could run one as fast or faster than a 12ga pump, and also reach out a little further if need be (I don't foresee a need, but who knows). The ballistics I'm reading on both 357/44mag from 16 inch barrels seems kind of insane, in a good way. I do have an older model 357 Ruger Vaquero I could bring as well, to compliment a 357mag 1894.

I'm also really liking this, but don't know much about Taylor's firearms... http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/cartridge-rifles/1892-alaskan/1892-alaskan-black-takedown-16-357mag.html

ETA: Or this non-takedown model.... http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/cartridge-rifles/1892-carbine/1892-taylor-s-huntsman-carbine-16-357mag.html

[GJM]

M2 Tactical with an Aimpoint micro. Essentially a large caliber, tube fed AR.

[StraitR]

M2 Tactical with an Aimpoint micro. Essentially a large caliber, tube fed AR.

I was literally counting on you to make that suggestion, because this was my first impulse. I'm quite fond of the M2 series Benelli's and their manual of operation. My M2 Field was 100% through a few thousand rounds (almost exclusively clay loads), and even digested a bunch of weak target loads, which made me happy. Can I assume the Tactical is just as reliable, staying with traditional defensive loadings (don't care about target loads)? I thought I read somewhere here that they could be a touch weight sensitive? Meaning, adding weight to the gun.

[GJM]

I was literally counting on you to make that suggestion, because this was my first impulse. I'm quite fond of the M2 series Benelli's and their manual of operation. My M2 Field was 100% through a few thousand rounds (almost exclusively clay loads), and even digested a bunch of weak target loads, which made me happy. Can I assume the Tactical is just as reliable, staying with traditional defensive loadings (don't care about target loads)? I thought I read somewhere here that they could be a touch weight sensitive? Meaning, adding weight to the gun.

Every M2 I have is reliable. I don't hang heavy side saddles on them, and I use high brass shot and full power slugs/buck. I use a simple carry sling, scout light and Velcro on the side to attach a shot shell card.

[GJM]

PS, get the model with the Comfortech stock -- money well spent, and much cheaper than adding that stock later. If you don't like the look of the "Tactical," get a 21 inch M2 field and Aimpoint S1 for the rib.

[Kevin B.]

My current choice, if I had to pick right now (I have 6-9 months), would be a Wilson Scattergun BP model. I feel like the pump is the most versatile due to the wide variety of ammo. I'm also familiar with the breakdown and maintenance of an 870. That being said, the M2 Field I had was extremely easy to completely disassemble, I'd say easier than the 870. My other leading option is an M2 Tactical with Comfortech stock like my Field had (not a PG stock fan).

I have an original Scattergun Technologies (pre-Wilson Combat acquisition) shotgun. It is everything I need in a shotgun.

However, for my purposes, I was not just concerned about capability and legality, but perception as well. I wanted a long gun that was less likely to raise concerns over its appearance. I considered a lever gun, but I am just about sold on the 870 with rifle sights and wood.

[SeriousStudent]

And an advantage of the 870 is the ability to find a used 870 Police Magnum just as described. Wood furniture, rifled sights, and the ability to be cheaply and easily refurbished.

Food for thought.

[StraitR]

I've read in a few places, although I can't say any of them are what I consider trusted sources, that the Wilson Combat Scattergun 870's are "just gussied up Express models". Any truth to this? Anyone have experience with one? I'm trying to decide between a M2 and WC SG 870. There are pros and cons to each for my purposes.

[Wondering Beard]

I've had their Border patrol model for maybe ten years and I have no idea how many rounds (of all sorts) I've shot through it; I still haven't cleaned it and it still works just as smoothly and reliably as when I first got it. I don't know all the details of what Wilson does to it but it works.

[StraitR]

I've had their Border patrol model for maybe ten years and I have no idea how many rounds (of all sorts) I've shot through it; I still haven't cleaned it and it still works just as smoothly and reliably as when I first got it. I don't know all the details of what Wilson does to it but it works.

Thanks for the info, WB. Exactly what I was looking for. While I do enjoy "the details", I'm mostly concerned with it working.


_____________________

ETA: Another question for the masses... Aside from price, is there any reason not to buy a Benelli M4 over the M2? I see the M4 is about a pound heavier at 7.8 vs the M2's 6.7, but I won't be toting it around.

The 11703 model, to be exact...
20136

[Notorious E.O.C.]

Just out of curiosity, any thoughts on the M1 Carbine as an alternative to the pistol-caliber lever guns?

[Malamute]

Just out of curiosity, any thoughts on the M1 Carbine as an alternative to the pistol-caliber lever guns?

There was a pretty interesting M1 Carbine discussion not too long ago. Had some good info about loads, magazines, which guns tended to work and not.

[SeriousStudent]

If I recall correctly, Dr Roberts had some interesting input on that very subject. You might search some of his previous posts.

I had pondered one, but decided against it based on the detachable magazine and (sometimes) bayonet lug.

[psalms144.1]

As a VERY happy customer of the M2 tactical with Comfortech stock and rifle sights, I'd strongly suggest going that route over the M4 anything - because it's an M4EvilScaryBlackShotgunOMGOMGOMG-RUN!

Seriously, if I had it to do all over again, I'd do EXACTLY what George suggested, and get the M2 Comfortech with a 21" VR. Realistically isn't going to be any harder to maneuver than a civilian legal 18" gun, and the vent rib would allow Aimpoints new RDS very nicely. Doesn't look "scary" - but still plenty easy to use for serious use. In the free world, you can run a LONG magazine tube (I'm partial to Nordic) with, IIRC 10-11 rounds in the tube. Going into occupied territory? Put the factory mag cap back on and learn to reload faster!

Otherwise, I'd look hardest at a lever gun of some sort - I'm partial to "Trapper" length pistol caliber versions. I mourn the days of the relatively affordable, easy to find Winchester 94 big loop trapper - had one in .45 Colt and .44 Magnum - and stupidly let them both go. The 30-30 is a better choice if you want to press it into hunting service, but is, IMHO, needlessly powerful (with lower capacity) for (Mobile)Home Defense.

I wouldn't bother with anything AR based or otherwise even vaguely military-derived, ESPECIALLY if you're planning on traveling into California.

[Screwball]

Just out of curiosity, any thoughts on the M1 Carbine as an alternative to the pistol-caliber lever guns?

M1 Carbine is an "assault weapon," banned by name, in NJ... so not 50 state legal.

[StraitR]

As a VERY happy customer of the M2 tactical with Comfortech stock and rifle sights, I'd strongly suggest going that route over the M4 anything - because it's an M4EvilScaryBlackShotgunOMGOMGOMG-RUN!

Seriously, if I had it to do all over again, I'd do EXACTLY what George suggested, and get the M2 Comfortech with a 21" VR. Realistically isn't going to be any harder to maneuver than a civilian legal 18" gun, and the vent rib would allow Aimpoints new RDS very nicely. Doesn't look "scary" - but still plenty easy to use for serious use. In the free world, you can run a LONG magazine tube (I'm partial to Nordic) with, IIRC 10-11 rounds in the tube. Going into occupied territory? Put the factory mag cap back on and learn to reload faster!

Otherwise, I'd look hardest at a lever gun of some sort - I'm partial to "Trapper" length pistol caliber versions. I mourn the days of the relatively affordable, easy to find Winchester 94 big loop trapper - had one in .45 Colt and .44 Magnum - and stupidly let them both go. The 30-30 is a better choice if you want to press it into hunting service, but is, IMHO, needlessly powerful (with lower capacity) for (Mobile)Home Defense.

I wouldn't bother with anything AR based or otherwise even vaguely military-derived, ESPECIALLY if you're planning on traveling into California.


Great info, thank you.

What accessories do you have on your M2, and have you had any reliability issues with it due to the extra weight? Given it's HD purpose, a white light is a must for me, and I'd like to put at least two spare shells on the side (Velcro and small 2 shot card). I'm not fond of the many reports I'm reading about issues M2's have when you put two or more accessories on them. While I'm not trying to be Rambo, I think a white light, and mag tube extension, and a few extra onboard shells is pretty standard for an HD shotgun.

The complexities of getting the right LOP stock and adding things like a white light on the M2 has me thinking I'd be better off with the 870.

[MistWolf]

My "50 State Friendly, In Case Of Bear" longarm is a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 with the XS sights and a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad. I don't know if it'll do anything a 12 gauge with slugs won't, but I know with the right load, it will cut a wound channel completely through the largest bear and beyond.
20142
20143

Mine happens to be a Davidson LTDIII with an 18 inch octagonal barrel and full length magazine but Marlin is currently making an 1895 in 45-70 in the same configuration. It's short, handy and quick. It hold 8 artillery rounds and the Decelerator recoil pad is a must. I can tell you from personal experience it does not take up much space in the RV. Mine is a wonderful rifle and I love it. A lever action in 45 Colt holds more rounds and with the right ammo, will cut a deep wound channel, but the 45-70 is the champ

[OlongJohnson]

If you go with an 870 and rifle sights, consider something like the Williams Fire Sights peep sights. They go right on the factory mounting points and are much faster and easier to use for me than the notch-and-post. The Brenneke slugs, even in 20ga, are readily available and pretty affordable from Bud's.

I like the 1894 idea. If you believe Ballistics By the Inch, it should turn .38SPL standard pressure 125gr into a nice 9mm defensive round, as far as velocity. But with the lower pressure cartridge expanding into an 18 inch barrel, it should be relatively quiet. Holds 10 rounds vs a shottie, and reloads are smaller and lighter to carry. Can also go full-house .357s at 180gr, which should handle any defensive needs outside the northern Rockies. The only thing wrong with them is California people have figured out what a good fit they are for that state's ridiculousness and driven the price up. BTW, I believe it's the case under the new rules that even a tube mag is limited to 10 rounds. Not sure if the rimfire long gun exemption applies. Read everything you can find here before traveling there: https://oag.ca.gov/firearms

A local smith here is Ranger Point Precision. I've handled their shop demo Marlin 1894, and it's quite slick. They also have a medium-loop lever that I like better than the factory rectangle.

Also, be aware of city and county weirdnesses, like the San Francisco hollow point law. HST is called out by name, and any other ammo sold "for law enforcement use only." (Working from memory here, and this is not legal advice.) Could get weird if you have a case of Gold Dots that are identical to the 20-round plastic packs but cost 60% less because they came in a case with the wrong markings.

[StraitR]

^^^^ Great info, thank you. I had no idea about mag tube thing in CA, or the hollow points in SF (I'll look into it). Pure insanity.

More reasons why a simple 12ga looks to be the best bet. As a firearm enthusiast, I'd love to have one of each (12ga and PC lever), but it's unnecessary for my purposes.

[StraitR]

I would love to take more than one long gun, in which case I'd get a shotgun and pistol caliber lever, but it's just not necessary. Thank you to all who made suggestions.

That said, for many reasons found in this thread and the other ongoing shotgun threads, I opted for a semi-auto shotgun. For my purposes, I chose the M4. I ordered the 11703 field stocked version today through friend, and got what seems to be a good deal on it. He had to email their Benelli rep, but it's in stock and will take a week or so.

I plan on getting a light mount, velcro shotgun cards, and an optic mount. One of the more popular light mounts seems to be the AVA Tactical Mod 1. IWS appears to make a mount as well. I have a plethora of SF lights in the safe (M300, X300, Fury, G2X, and a few E-series), but not sure which way I'll go. The light might dictate the mount, unless there's an overwhelming favorite mount. I have industrial 3M velcro already, so I'll pick up a pair of shot cards. Looks like Scalarworks makes a low-pro mount for both RMR and Micro Aimpoints. I have one of each optic, haven't decided which way to go yet.

If anyone has experience/suggestions on light mounts, lights, velcro shot cards, or RMR vs T-2 for this application, I would love to hear them.

[GJM]

Scalarworks T2 all the way.

[willie]

I didn't see this mentioned so overlook this effort if someone else has made the point. Some states will forbid having a loaded long gun in a vehicle. Hastily loading a lever action rifle is not easy; unloading one by jacking rounds through the action is not terribly safe and may appear to be threatening behavior to others. My choice would be a double barrel 20 or 12 ga. The double is handy and easily loaded and unloaded and also has a conservative appearance.

You may find yourself walking in the woods with a shotgun or rifle and then receiving a ticket from a game warden for hunting without a license. I never said this made sense. 50 states with a few 1000 different game wardens and you're away from home. Who knows?

Although I stated my choice as a double barrel shotgun, my real choice would be carrying a handgun where I could legally do so and then keeping said handgun locked up in an approved container when in a state forbidding its carry. Unless I called each state's state police and verified what I could and could not have in my vehicle, I would be uncomfortable assuming that my double barrel was OK.

[Poconnor]

I purchased a model 12 this summer just for this purpose. I plan on having the barrel chopped, an XS big dot bead installed. Shorten the stock, add a recoil pad. New springs and call it good. Then find a bag to store it broken down

[SteveB]

Every M2 I have is reliable. I don't hang heavy side saddles on them, and I use high brass shot and full power slugs/buck. I use a simple carry sling, scout light and Velcro on the side to attach a shot shell card.

I agree with this but will say that I run a fair amount of #8 target loads through my M2 at our local monthly 2-gun matches; so far 100% reliable.

20256

[Beat Trash]

I'm curious as to why I don't see more recommendations for the Beretta 1301 Tactical. The Benelli M2 seems to be what everyone's recommending.

I have zero experience with wither one of these shotguns. Is there a reason to go with the M2 Tactical over the 1301 Tactical? Any substantial difference in durability or reliability?

[SeriousStudent]

I purchased a model 12 this summer just for this purpose. I plan on having the barrel chopped, an XS big dot bead installed. Shorten the stock, add a recoil pad. New springs and call it good. Then find a bag to store it broken down

I did exactly that, and it fits in a Jansport sling bag. Malmute did some similair, and was my inspiration for doing so.

[StraitR]

Scalarworks T2 all the way.

Ordered the Scalarworks mount. Free priority shipping was a nice touch, and appreciated.

Will order some Esstac cards, but I think I'll wait until the gun arrives and get the T2 mounted to help determine size. I'm thinking either 4-5 slot.

Still checking out light mounts. So far, the AVA Mod 1 looks like the best bet, supplying hardware for 1", .8", and Scout lights in the kit.

[OlongJohnson]

Looping back to the original discussion, before StraitR made up his mind...

I think the Mini 14 and Mini 30 were mentioned. Because they don't have a pistol grip, they are OK in a lot of places where scary rifles are outlawed.

Along those same lines, it's possible to put BAR Stalker furniture on an FNAR to eliminate the pistol grip. It then slides past many bans as well, but is still a .308 semi with DBMs and a reasonable reputation for accuracy. It also looks a lot better and some might say handles a lot better, too.

[StraitR]

Looping back to the original discussion, before StraitR made up his mind...

I think the Mini 14 and Mini 30 were mentioned. Because they don't have a pistol grip, they are OK in a lot of places where scary rifles are outlawed.

Along those same lines, it's possible to put BAR Stalker furniture on an FNAR to eliminate the pistol grip. It then slides past many bans as well, but is still a .308 semi with DBMs and a reasonable reputation for accuracy. It also looks a lot better and some might say handles a lot better, too.


The issue I see with the mini 14/30 is magazine capacity limitations, not the actual guns being scary or banned by name. If 10 round reliable magazines exist, and one is in need of a semi-auto rifle, either might be a viable option.

Had I been looking for a more PC friendly centerfire rifle, I probably would have looked more into the Ares/Flightlite SCR lower. Just attach one's favorite AR upper with preferred optics, then grab some 10 round Pmags and go. Could also have a couple 30 round mags, since they're cheap, then hand them to some hippie or mail them to your favorite PFer before entering unfriendly states. Stop at the next freedom loving fun store on your way out of said unfriendly state and grab some more 30's. Rinse and repeat. I just don't need a carbine. :p

https://www.rainierarms.com/ares-defense-scr-lower-receiver-assembly-with-monte-carlo-stock/

[OlongJohnson]

Somehow, I had not heard of that. I like it a lot.

[StraitR]

@OlongJohnson (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=11419) Full disclosure, I'm only aware of it. I have no experience with the SCR lower. Could be "the answer", or could be a turd. ;)

[Malamute]

...Some states will forbid having a loaded long gun in a vehicle. Hastily loading a lever action rifle is not easy; unloading one by jacking rounds through the action is not terribly safe...

You may find yourself walking in the woods with a shotgun or rifle and then receiving a ticket from a game warden for hunting without a license.



There are a couple things that make loading levers easier. I didnt say fast, just easier. With 30-30 rounds, I can pull a group from my pocket, its best if they are all pointed the correct direction so you arent fumbling with turning some around. Any more than about 6-7 rds gets too disorganized in the pocket and hand. 6 is about perfect for grabbing. So you have 6-7 rounds in your right hand, gun in left hand. I stick 2 rds between each of the fingers of the left hand, it puts them right where I'm working, and makes handling one at a time simple and quick(er). Load up. Cartridge belts are useful for carrying shells easily or topping off. I keep a belt of 25-30 rounds coiled up near the rifle when its in the truck. The red plastic 10 rd shell holders from older Federal rifle ammo are also handy for in vehicles or pockets.

One big part of why I prefer the Winchester type action, unloading. The action can be worked, lever down, then about halfway back, the cartridge fed about halfway into the chamber, just enough that its free of the feed rails, back the bolt up, grab rim with fingers and remove, repeat. No rounds are fully chambered.

There exist speed loader tubes for lever actions, basically home made contrivances. Not quite ready for prime time, or under duress, but they may have promise. Want to experiment with the idea a bit, and improve on the ones Ive seen. One idea has a collar (larger piece of plastic tube) for a plunger handle, and a plastic tube the shells are loaded from. The weak part is the strip of inner tube for a shell latch on the gun end of the tube to keep the shells in it when not being used. Need a better idea for that. Another has a plunger tube inserted into the back to push the rounds in. Fail. Way too complicated and long, and no stop at all on the end of the tube. May be OK for loading on a bench. Both types have an angle cut on the end of the tube thats manually held in place to force the shells in the loading gate. Not that stable. May have to figure a better way. It would be worth modifying the gun somewhat for a truly good system.

[willie]

You have a good technique. I've wondered if reducing the loading gate's spring pressure might be one strategy for easier loading. I may investigate this idea. Winchester and Marlin lever guns fit me well and shoot where I look when mounted. Both can rather quickly be loaded with three rounds: place one in the chamber and then two in the tube. Years back I gave away my last Marlin, an older and beautiful .35 Remington. When a dear friend from decades past had a daughter, I had it shipped to them in another state. She reloads for it and uses it as a woods gun and home defense weapon.

[vandal]

I have an Ares SCR with the Gen 2 trigger (before the name change to FightLight). No complaints. You do have to choose your stock to match your optics/optics height. I wanted the youth stock to shorten the overall length and that doesn't have the cheek riser. Wound up mounting my Aimpoint Micro right to the upper (no riser), and to get cowitness I put on the CZ Scorpion irons. So the upper is now not something I can share with an AR. The upper is a BCM 16" KMR-A with a comp on it (no flash hiders!)

Big fan of these for CA though. As others have noted, quickly feeding any tube-fed magazine (lever or 12ga) is not something I want to do under stress. I can barely load my Rossi .357 carbine under perfect conditions! If I have to start unloaded, I'd take a 10rd PMAG in an SCR over any tube-fed long gun for that reason.

Went out looking for targets of opportunity (jackrabbits/wild pig) with my son, and he carried the SCR while I carried the 1301 with shot and slugs.

Do keep in mind that if you think you might wind up hiking/hunting with whatever you get, sourcing certified non-lead projectiles is important in at least CA! Barnes is great for 5.56 but copper .357, 10mm, or non-lead 12ga slugs are not easily found even in decent-size gun stores around here.


@OlongJohnson (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=11419) Full disclosure, I'm only aware of it. I have no experience with the SCR lower. Could be "the answer", or could be a turd. ;)

[JPedersen]

The 357/44mag 1894 is the only other long gun I had considered. I have a Aimpoint T-2 I could throw on it. I've not shot one in either caliber, but I'd image I could run one as fast or faster than a 12ga pump, and also reach out a little further if need be (I don't foresee a need, but who knows). The ballistics I'm reading on both 357/44mag from 16 inch barrels seems kind of insane, in a good way. I do have an older model 357 Ruger Vaquero I could bring as well, to compliment a 357mag 1894.

I'm also really liking this, but don't know much about Taylor's firearms... http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/cartridge-rifles/1892-alaskan/1892-alaskan-black-takedown-16-357mag.html

ETA: Or this non-takedown model.... http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/long-guns/cartridge-rifles/1892-carbine/1892-taylor-s-huntsman-carbine-16-357mag.html

I have experience with the Taylors 45-70 Takedown Ridge Runner and it is an amazing gun! Very well made and thought out. We are only shooting 200 yards and in with the 45-70 round, but it is quite accurate so far. I would not hesitate to purchase a Taylor's Lever gun. YMMV as I am only one datapoint - but I am a believer. I have been looking at the normal stainless Alaskan TD for a while... but am on the fence re: 357 or 44.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OlongJohnson]

I handled an all-stainless Chiappa in .44RM at a LGS awhile back. It surprised me with its out of the box smoothness.

[OlongJohnson]

Had I been looking for a more PC friendly centerfire rifle, I probably would have looked more into the Ares/Flightlite SCR lower. Just attach one's favorite AR upper with preferred optics, then grab some 10 round Pmags and go.

https://www.rainierarms.com/ares-defense-scr-lower-receiver-assembly-with-monte-carlo-stock/

Darn you all to heck. I was up until 1 a.m. reading the thread on barfcom.

Ares has had offset issues come and go, apparently, which lead to the machined features being visibly misaligned relative to the forged features. Amateur hour b.s. in a machining operation, IMO as someone who's dealt with that situation in production. Worse, their public response (doing nothing but condescend to the customer) has made a lot of people say something like, "I was going to buy three this year, but will never give Ares a dime now."

On the other hand, none of the complaints were ever functional, and people seem happy with how they work. Early triggers were poor and heavy, but somewhere it was said that Fightlite offered free upgrade to new parts for early adopters.

Due to the difference in stock height, you can expect optics to need to be different. The SCR, even with the Monte Carlo stock, has a significantly lower cheek weld than an AR buffer tube provides, so optics need to be mounted as low as possible, just as with a typical bolt gun. The CZ Scorpion peep sights are said to work very well for irons, and people use the lowest scope mounts possible. Fortunately, there are some reasonably low removable mounts with good return to zero that are made for Weaver rails.

You can go fully Fudd friendly with an old Rem 1100 butt stock and wood handguard.

I have an 18-inch 7.62x39 bolt and barrel sitting in the safe for no particular reason that are now telling me they want to go shooting with my buddies out in CA.

[Malamute]

You have a good technique. I've wondered if reducing the loading gate's spring pressure might be one strategy for easier loading. I may investigate this idea. Winchester and Marlin lever guns fit me well and shoot where I look when mounted. Both can rather quickly be loaded with three rounds: place one in the chamber and then two in the tube...

Id not do anything to the gate spring, its a flat spring and may cause issues if yo try changing it much, like maybe cracking. Most lever guns can be improved in how they load by polishing the back side of the gate, the part that cams the loaded round forward to allow the gate to open. Theres a concave bevel on the back from the front edge rearwards. I have pics somewhere of the Winchester gate showing where to polish, but cant find them at the moment.

Edit: googled my own pics and found them. :)

20341



As others have noted, quickly feeding any tube-fed magazine (lever or 12ga) is not something I want to do under stress. I can barely load my Rossi .357 carbine under perfect conditions!

The 30-30 rounds are large enough to make it easier to handle them. It trades magazine capacity to do that, but you also get flatter trajectory and excellent expanding bullets back in that trade. Between the pistol rounds, 357 is harder to handle and load into the gate than 44s.

[Wheeler]

I have experience with the Taylors 45-70 Takedown Ridge Runner and it is an amazing gun! Very well made and thought out. We are only shooting 200 yards and in with the 45-70 round, but it is quite accurate so far. I would not hesitate to purchase a Taylor's Lever gun. YMMV as I am only one datapoint - but I am a believer. I have been looking at the normal stainless Alaskan TD for a while... but am on the fence re: 357 or 44.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pick one based on your needs and never look back. The debates between the .357 fans and .44 fans are nearly as numerous as those between Ford and Chevy, 9mm vs .45, AIWB vs strong side, etc. In the end they pretty much equal out when ALL the variables are looked at objectively with a slight edge towards .357 due to overall costs.

[Aray]

It always strikes me as odd that so few people consider the Remington 760/7600. 10 round mags are available, and is almost definitely a low pro 50 state gun.

[StraitR]

It always strikes me as odd that so few people consider the Remington 760/7600. 10 round mags are available, and is almost definitely a low pro 50 state gun.

I don't think it was intentionally dismissed, but not brought up due to the thread focus being 50 state friendly home defense options. I suppose it would work in that capacity, like many others not discussed, but it wouldn't be my preferred option.

[5pins]

It always strikes me as odd that so few people consider the Remington 760/7600. 10 round mags are available, and is almost definitely a low pro 50 state gun.

Except for the 7615p Patrol Rifle. It's actually band by name in Connecticut. :rolleyes:

[willie]

At one time the Texas Dept of Correction issued the very light weight and hard kicking 760 in .308 Win. Recoil was much too severe for adequate training of correctional officers, some who had no firearms experience. However, .223 Rem 760's would have been excellent companions for their 870's.

[Kyle Reese]

Would the Troy (https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/93627/Firearms/Rifles/Troy+Industries/TROY+SPMPAR000BT+PAR+5.56+16+BK) pump action rifle be worthy of consideration, with a 10 round PMAG?

[OlongJohnson]

Not to drag this thread into rage-quitting territory, but google "troy boycott" and read for awhile before you decide whether to send them your shekels.

[GJM]

Benelli R1 sure looks interesting in multiple roles -- hunting, bear defense, practical/PC rifle. Would like confirmation the ten round mags function reliably.

[Duelist]

Except for the 7615p Patrol Rifle. It's actually band by name in Connecticut. :rolleyes:

Yeah, well, Connecticut is weird like that.

(Says the guy in Arizona)

[HCM]

Except for the 7615p Patrol Rifle. It's actually band by name in Connecticut. :rolleyes:

I ahot one of these in an LE rifle training class. Horrible. Briefs well but doesn't work out in practice.

[HCM]

It always strikes me as odd that so few people consider the Remington 760/7600. 10 round mags are available, and is almost definitely a low pro 50 state gun.

They are hunting rifles, they will not hold up to the firing schedule necessary to train with them. Lever guns are more durable and reliable.

I ran the related 7615 for part of an LE rifle class and it was awkward.

[Lost River]

If I was personally traveling across all 50 states and wanted a long gun purely for defense purposes and had no intention of hunting at all, or needed long range capabilities, this is what I would grab every time:

https://i.imgur.com/MG6Cz9B.jpg?1

Right now it is at the foot of the bed, loaded with #4 Buck, and has a buttstock carrier full of 00, as well as a couple extra 1 ounce slugs.

Browning Auto 5s have literally been laying hate into people who need killing for more than 100 years now. It worked in WW I, and it still works today.

Besides, killing tweakers with a chopped Belgian Browning Auto-5 is a lot more stylish than using a Rossi lever gun. :cool:

[NH Shooter]

If I was personally traveling across all 50 states and wanted a long gun purely for defense purposes and had no intention of hunting at all, or needed long range capabilities, this is what I would grab every time:

https://i.imgur.com/MG6Cz9B.jpg?1

Besides, killing tweakers with a chopped Belgian Browning Auto-5 is a lot more stylish than using a Rossi lever gun. :cool:

That is one bad ass SG! I've seen a number of conversions of the Auto-5 and the identical Remington Model 11 to dedicated SD guns, all of which brought the nostalgia, class and style to the table as you described. My father in-law has a Model 11 in his safe.

Though not nostalgic like your Auto-5, I too am fond of stylish SD shotguns;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-30.jpg

[Mntneer357]

Lost River & NH Shooter - those are both some truly amazing looking scatterguns. Just wow.

Forgive my ignorance here, can any gunsmith chop a shotgun barrel to a more "socially usable" (say 21") length? Are y'all running chokes in those shotguns or are they Cylinder barrels?

I may have to start hunting for a nice, used shotgun myself...

[Wheeler]

Not to drag this thread into rage-quitting territory, but google "troy boycott" and read for awhile before you decide whether to send them your shekels.

That was four years ago. If you're going to hold a grudge against a firearms manufacturer for making a dumb move, that pretty much applies to all of them. In that case you'll be severely limited in choices. :)

[NH Shooter]

Lost River & NH Shooter - those are both some truly amazing looking scatterguns. Just wow.

Thanks! I bought it new in the 90s and after a few skeet-busting outings, it sat forgotten in the back of my safe. It's now one of my favorite long guns.


Forgive my ignorance here, can any gunsmith chop a shotgun barrel to a more "socially usable" (say 21") length? Are y'all running chokes in those shotguns or are they Cylinder barrels?


Mine started off as a 26" Premier light contour pressure-compensated barrel with RemChokes. I had it cut to 18-3/4 inches (based on the vent rib) and a FO sight installed. I also had it threaded to reuse the screw-in RemChokes I already had. I use the modified choke almost exclusively, which seems to work well with Federal Flight Control loads. For strictly SD I don't think any choke is required. Unless you are having chokes installed, any reasonably competent gunsmith can cut the barrel and install a new front bead/sight of your choice. FWIW, I find the vent rib greatly aids shot placement, especially with slugs.

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-9.jpg


These are my favorite loads, all of which cycle perfectly;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187shells-1.jpg


Here is a list of Remington 1100 and 1187 barrels - http://162.242.230.74/pages/support/parts-information/remington-original-factory-barrels-tables.aspx

[Lost River]

Lost River & NH Shooter - those are both some truly amazing looking scatterguns. Just wow.

Forgive my ignorance here, can any gunsmith chop a shotgun barrel to a more "socially usable" (say 21") length? Are y'all running chokes in those shotguns or are they Cylinder barrels?

I may have to start hunting for a nice, used shotgun myself...

Mine has no choke restriction and a similar setup would be a simple setup for any semi competent gunsmith.

[Lost River]

That is one bad ass SG! I've seen a number of conversions of the Auto-5 and the identical Remington Model 11 to dedicated SD guns, all of which brought the nostalgia, class and style to the table as you described. My father in-law has a Model 11 in his safe.

Though not nostalgic like your Auto-5, I too am fond of stylish SD shotguns;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-30.jpg



I learned to hunt with a 20 gauge single shot. When I was 16 I received a 20 gauge Remington lightweight 3" magnum 1100 for Christmas from my dad. I did not have the heart to tell him I liked his old Auto 5s he used better.

When I got older I switched to hunting with the A5s, but I still have the 3" 1100 lightweight 20 gauge. I picked up a non vent rib barrel for it, shortened it, and it makes for a killer, super lightweight, fast handling gun. Recoil is so light it is silly. I discovered that women absolutely LOVE the gun, and let a few use it in some classes, as well as on rabbit hunts.

If women/kids are going to be using a gun, a cut down 20 gauge semi auto, like the 1100 would also be a great option. They can be found dirt cheap in pawn shops and like I said, recoil is so light that women absolutely love shooting the gun.

https://i.imgur.com/dmVtzKI.jpg?1

Plus, while there is no doubt that I would rather have a 12 gauge over a 20 gauge for a fight, the reality is that the only person who might be able to tell the difference in the effects is the coroner. That said, for the "Non Gunny" types like our spouses, handling a 20 gauge, which weighs less, and kicks less could make all the difference in the world for her. Not only in the ability to use the long gun, but in the willingness to practice with it. If she is getting the shit kicked out of her, and a bruised shoulder from shooting 12 gauge loads, then she may not be so inclined to want to practice enough to become familiar. However if she has a light recoiling gun that is fun to shoot, she may want to play with it enough to develop a higher level of competence with it.

For us, the outcome is not likely to be too much different, no matter if we have a 12 gauge or a 20 gauge.


Years back I taught some CCW classes when my wife (then girlfriend) were first living together, to supplement my shitty cop pay. When people asked what I kept around the house. I told them that it was a matter of the lowest level of training in the house.

I told them that my duty gun (Colt 70 Series) was always on my nightstand, but elsewhere, we had a couple of double action .38 specials. while I had a couple different guns that may have been technically better choices, it was not about me. I could use whatever I picked up. It was about her. She was familiar enough with DA .38s that that is what we used (and could afford).

Sheesh, that ended up being a bit long winded, and I just really wanted to say don't overlook 20 gauges since you may not be the only one who ends up deploying the firearm.

:cool:

[Duelist]

They are wise words, though, so that's okay.

[Bigghoss]

If I was personally traveling across all 50 states and wanted a long gun purely for defense purposes and had no intention of hunting at all, or needed long range capabilities, this is what I would grab every time:

https://i.imgur.com/MG6Cz9B.jpg?1

Right now it is at the foot of the bed, loaded with #4 Buck, and has a buttstock carrier full of 00, as well as a couple extra 1 ounce slugs.

Browning Auto 5s have literally been laying hate into people who need killing for more than 100 years now. It worked in WW I, and it still works today.

Besides, killing tweakers with a chopped Belgian Browning Auto-5 is a lot more stylish than using a Rossi lever gun. :cool:

Browning should cash in of the recent short 12ga firearms by making a replica of Clyde Barrows favored whippet gun. Unless the recoil spring makes the stock nub so long that the ATF won't sign off on it.

[Jared]

I learned to hunt with a 20 gauge single shot. When I was 16 I received a 20 gauge Remington lightweight 3" magnum 1100 for Christmas from my dad. I did not have the heart to tell him I liked his old Auto 5s he used better.

When I got older I switched to hunting with the A5s, but I still have the 3" 1100 lightweight 20 gauge. I picked up a non vent rib barrel for it, shortened it, and it makes for a killer, super lightweight, fast handling gun. Recoil is so light it is silly. I discovered that women absolutely LOVE the gun, and let a few use it in some classes, as well as on rabbit hunts.

If women/kids are going to be using a gun, a cut down 20 gauge semi auto, like the 1100 would also be a great option. They can be found dirt cheap in pawn shops and like I said, recoil is so light that women absolutely love shooting the gun.

https://i.imgur.com/dmVtzKI.jpg?1

Plus, while there is no doubt that I would rather have a 12 gauge over a 20 gauge for a fight, the reality is that the only person who might be able to tell the difference in the effects is the coroner. That said, for the "Non Gunny" types like our spouses, handling a 20 gauge, which weighs less, and kicks less could make all the difference in the world for her. Not only in the ability to use the long gun, but in the willingness to practice with it. If she is getting the shit kicked out of her, and a bruised shoulder from shooting 12 gauge loads, then she may not be so inclined to want to practice enough to become familiar. However if she has a light recoiling gun that is fun to shoot, she may want to play with it enough to develop a higher level of competence with it.

For us, the outcome is not likely to be too much different, no matter if we have a 12 gauge or a 20 gauge.


Years back I taught some CCW classes when my wife (then girlfriend) were first living together, to supplement my shitty cop pay. When people asked what I kept around the house. I told them that it was a matter of the lowest level of training in the house.

I told them that my duty gun (Colt 70 Series) was always on my nightstand, but elsewhere, we had a couple of double action .38 specials. while I had a couple different guns that may have been technically better choices, it was not about me. I could use whatever I picked up. It was about her. She was familiar enough with DA .38s that that is what we used (and could afford).

Sheesh, that ended up being a bit long winded, and I just really wanted to say don't overlook 20 gauges since you may not be the only one who ends up deploying the firearm.

:cool:

I love that 20 gauge, but I don't have the heart to tell you what 20 gauge 1100's go for around where I live. An old one like that with a vent rib barrel, especially if it's 26" skeet or improved cylinder choke is probably gonna fetch $650 or more, assuming good condition. I've got one of the "Classic Field" 20 gauge 1100's that Remington made in the early 2000's. When I mentioned having it, one of the gun shop employees eyebrows shot straight up and he asked "you wanna trade that in?!" No, no I don't.

[Lost River]

No worries Jared.

The chopped barrel in the picture was an extra barrel I picked up cheap. The original barrel is a vent rib, standard length version and remains unmolested. The fact is that I very rarely hunt birds, and in fact I doubt that the standard barrel has been on this gun in the last decade. The original barrel is in phenomenal shape and in a number of years when my oldest daughter is on her own, and decides she wants a shotgun, I will most likely just pass this one down to her. Its light handling characteristics and easy recoil would make it a great fit for her tall slim frame.

Fortunately she is "into" guns (and is currently on her way back from spending the weekend at a mounted shooting competition in Washington State) , so I don't worry about passing stuff down to kids who are not interested.

https://i.imgur.com/qafPcgZ.jpg

Paying for her mounted shooting habit is another matter... :eek:

[Robinson]

I learned to hunt with a 20 gauge single shot.

Same here. I think mine was a Harrington & Richardson.

[RevolverRob]

Just so folks bear this in mind - Some jurisdictions specifically prohibit magazine tube extensions and/or shotguns with capacities exceeding 6-rounds. See: Chicago, which prohibits magazine fed shotguns, shotguns with tube extensions, and shotguns holding more than 6-rounds.

I would be hesitant to consider anything except a double-barrel or single-shot shotgun as 50-state/all jurisdiction legal. And even then, that might be questionable in some places...

[StraitR]

Just so folks bear this in mind - Some jurisdictions specifically prohibit magazine tube extensions and/or shotguns with capacities exceeding 6-rounds. See: Chicago, which prohibits magazine fed shotguns, shotguns with tube extensions, and shotguns holding more than 6-rounds.

I would be hesitant to consider anything except a double-barrel or single-shot shotgun as 50-state/all jurisdiction legal. And even then, that might be questionable in some places...


Precisely my reasoning for not mechanically altering my incoming Benelli M4 from it's stock configuration. At this point, I'm not aware of any state or jurisdiction that bans them outright by name or feature set. That's not to say there isn't one or more, it's just that I've not been able to flush out the information when searching locations we're looking at going (out west). The northeast is of no concern, as I would never travel there by choice, and if forced would not take a firearm of any kind.

Public perception may or may not play into the aftermath of a SD shooting, there are no guarantees. As such, I won't be changing the capacity, or any other factory parts, which may be misconstrued or spun as "more deadly".

[psalms144.1]

RR has a point - there are many semiautomatic shotguns that are banned by name under the NY Safe Act - including the M2 Tactical, and pretty much anything else with the word "tactical" in its name. Or even the letters T-A-C anywhere near them, it seems.

[psalms144.1]

Belay my last. Apparently the SAFE Act has been amended (again). Now as long as your shotgun does not have a pistol grip, foregrip, folding stock, take external magazines, or have a fixed magazine tube holding 8 or more rounds, it's NOT an "assault weapon."

Of course, that's only good until the next change, which will happen with no notice or debate...

[RevolverRob]

What?! No triple?!

20414

You and your three-barrel assault shotguns...

Hell, apparently, in Chicago, a muzzle-loading 20-gauge Howdah pistol would might be considered an "assault weapon" depending on if the judge in question viewed it as a "shotgun" or not.

[Grouse870]

I've been thinking about picking up a "tactical" shotgun for a travel type gun (plus I really like shotguns and would like to learn how to run one in a more tactical manner) anyways I've been contemplating one of these
https://www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870/model-870-express-turkey-camo
Yes it's a bit longer but it looks a little more "hunting" and less super tactical ninja gun. The fact that it comes with the regular 4 round tube means it "should" be safe from some of the more restrictive places. I have the 20 gauge youth model (same basic concept but shorter stock) it's not a bad little gun either.

[RevolverRob]

I've been thinking about picking up a "tactical" shotgun for a travel type gun (plus I really like shotguns and would like to learn how to run one in a more tactical manner) anyways I've been contemplating one of these
https://www.remington.com/shotguns/pump-action/model-870/model-870-express-turkey-camo
Yes it's a bit longer but it looks a little more "hunting" and less super tactical ninja gun. I have the 20 gauge youth model (same basic concept but shorter stock) it's not a bad little gun either.

I like the 870 Youth gun quite a bit. It's an easy shooting gun in stock configuration with the short stock and the vent-rib makes it so one can use the Tru-Glo snap-on turkey sights, which are about perfect for inexpensive sights for shooting slugs. Bonus is the gun is threaded for chokes and as a result can really keep #2 or #3 buckshot in a nice tight pattern out to 25-yards. Nordic makes high quality extension tubes. The only downside is the lack of a flashlight-ready fore-end for the 20-gauge gun. CDM Gear does make a couple of flashlight mounts for the 20-gauge guns though. One for use without an extension tube, and one a clamp-based mount for use with an extension tube. And Mesa Tactical does make an adapter to allow one to mount a 12-gauge stock to the 20-gauge receiver, it looks a little funky, but it works.

Of course all this shotgun talk has me looking at Benelli SuperNovas with Comfortech stocks. I noticed Burris has the Speedbead mounts available for the Benelli...Hmm...:confused:

[willie]

Lost River, does your daughter reload, or if not, is she interested in making ammo? Please tell us the handgun calibers she shoots.

[Grouse870]

Yeah the 870 youth model I have I just set up for my son for hunting. I picked up a 12" synthetic stock which has the supercell recoil pad on it the stock I picked up also comes with spacers so you can adjust the length of pull up to an inch. I may have to "borrow" it and run some drills with it. Still may end up getting a 12 gauge version but for now until I narrow down what I want it will work.

[Bigghoss]

What?! No triple?!

20414

Pros: 50% more capacity that a double barrel, shorter action means less overall length compared to a pump of semi with the same length barrel, mechanically advancing trigger, and I think it has ejectors. And when it runs empty you can throw it at your attacker(s) like Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven and it would for sure knock them over. :cool:

Con's: Expense, bulk, weight, only holds 3 shells...pretty much everything.

If Stoger would have done this with their double defense guns (without the third barrel) I could see myself being interested in those, for some reason. Probably the same reason I like 1911's and revolvers. There is one company that makes a double barrel with ejectors and 18.5" barrels and I think mechanically advancing trigger. Legacy sports I think or one of their related companies.

[GJM]

A Benelli M2 20 gauge, 24 inch model with the Compact Comfortech stock, AO sights, and the barrel cut back to about 20, is a very handy and capable package.

[45dotACP]

Does anybody else wonder about the issue in these threads?

Sure, technical legality of a gun by jurisdiction is good to understand, but people in those restrictive states don't give a shit if it was a break action O/U for Tweety Bird. They don't want you shooting people. It wouldn't matter if it was the punisher skull king of all firearms vs a break open .22lr.

They hate the idea of you defending yourself with a gun. Not the gun you use. Though they'll certainly take issue if it looks scary enough, but the idea that you shot someone makes you immediately persona non grata and some looney tune vigilante. Doubt me? Look up defensive shootings in Australia...to a freaking T these guys follow the law, but shoot a home invader and you're guilty til proven innocent of murder.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[OlongJohnson]

The UK and Australia have virtually eliminated self defense as a legally meaningful concept, in my understanding as a lay person. In both places, self defense is not considered an acceptable reason to own a firearm, even if there is a credible threat against your life. If you ever let slip at any point that you've contemplated defense among the uses you might have for a firearm, you can count on your application to be allowed to own one being denied, and there may be a blacklist that would cause any future application or reapplication to be denied.

That is why "sporting purposes" language in U.S. firearms law is troubling in general, apart from the specific details it hampers us with. England and Australia are where that road leads.

I am not aware of any jurisdiction subject to the Constitution of the United States that has taken it that far. In places like CA, NJ, NY, or DC, where a carry permit or even permit to possess a firearm is granted on a "may issue" basis and only after "good cause" is shown, a reasonable and specific fear of violent attack is intended by the letter of the law to satisfy the "good cause" requirement. So even the most prohibitive jurisdictions in the US, as far as I understand the situation, fundamentally recognize self defense as a valid legal concept in general, and further, as not just a valid reason to possess and employ arms, but a reason of fundamental validity. The most valid reason, perhaps.

That said, the authorities anywhere really don't want people getting shot, even in TX or AZ. If you're the person who shot someone, you can expect to be challenged to articulate, with, by and through the assistance of counsel, why the shooting was a legal, defensive act.

To me, the point of a thread like this is to be scrupulously in compliance with whatever firearms laws apply. In many of the stories about people who got caught up with what are perceived elsewhere to be unreasonable laws and enforcement systems while traveling, there is a common element that the people, although meaning no harm toward anybody, had in fact failed to acquire an adequate understanding of the laws in the place they were traveling through, and were indeed not in compliance.

I don't see how there's a downside to making a diligent, good-faith effort to be in compliance with the laws that apply wherever we go. In fact, it's pretty much a baseline for taking this whole project seriously.

[StraitR]

Does anybody else wonder about the issue in these threads?

Sure, technical legality of a gun by jurisdiction is good to understand, but people in those restrictive states don't give a shit if it was a break action O/U for Tweety Bird. They don't want you shooting people. It wouldn't matter if it was the punisher skull king of all firearms vs a break open .22lr.

They hate the idea of you defending yourself with a gun. Not the gun you use. Though they'll certainly take issue if it looks scary enough, but the idea that you shot someone makes you immediately persona non grata and some looney tune vigilante. Doubt me? Look up defensive shootings in Australia...to a freaking T these guys follow the law, but shoot a home invader and you're guilty til proven innocent of murder.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

No disagreement here, but why worry about things completely out of your control? I'd rather focus on what I can control, which is familiarity with local laws governing the use of deadly force, and compliance with local firearms statutes and restrictions. Aside from checking then double-checking to a high degree of certainty on compliance and understanding, I'm not sure we can be more prepared than that.

"If I legally shoot someone in defense of my family, I might be unjustly imprisoned" is something we all must accept, regardless of the state we live in or the firearm we use.

[Wheeler]

They are hunting rifles, they will not hold up to the firing schedule necessary to train with them. Lever guns are more durable and reliable.

I ran the related 7615 for part of an LE rifle class and it was awkward.

Lever actions are hunting rifles too, the popular ones are based on a 150 year old design. They won't hold up to a heavy firing schedule either.

[HCM]

Lever actions are hunting rifles too, the popular ones are based on a 150 year old design. They won't hold up to a heavy firing schedule either.

True but they will hold up better than the Remington pumps, especially in pistol calibers.

[willie]

Oblong makes a most important point. Finding out for certain about legalities of the firearm and how it should be transported in places where you plan to travel is paramount. For weapons I believe in the out of sight out of mind philosophy. We must remember that not every law enforcement officer that you may encounter is going to be a 2A guy, and even if he or she is, the officer still must follow prescribed policy, which may or may not suit you personally. There could be a certain amount of hassle involved. I'm used to cops ignoring long guns except to ask how it shoots or to admire them. However that might not be the response that I would receive in Houston. For example in the early 1980's Houston's police chief sent out a memo to all Texas police departments saying that he preferred that his fellow police officers not carry weapons when visiting Houston. At the time I worked for the prison system.

I'm convinced that when persons travel within their region where they think that they know what to expect and then enter a different region with a weapon, they may be surprised at the way cops will perceive them. If someone thinks "so what and my gun will be legal and I don't give a shit what they think", then I hope like hell for your sake that you keep your mouth shut. You are a guest in these places. Remember that. The old saying that it's all about respect is the ultimate truth.

After having studied this thread, I've decided to keep my fat ass of states that don't honor my chl. For me this decision will make my life more simple.

[Wheeler]

True but they will hold up better than the Remington pumps, especially in pistol calibers.

I've no experience with Remington pump action rifles I do however, with lever actions in both 'tactical' competitions and with a specific class for lever actions for defensive use. They have to be allowed to cool down, even the pistol caliber versions. I'd suspect that a cool down period after a short course of fire or drill would work for the Remington pumps as well.

[willie]

Remington center fire pumps and especially the autos have had a decades long history of not holding up to frequent firing. I've never met a gunsmith who didn't dread working on either. The trigger group is very similar to ones used in their shotguns.

[HCM]

Does anybody else wonder about the issue in these threads?

Sure, technical legality of a gun by jurisdiction is good to understand, but people in those restrictive states don't give a shit if it was a break action O/U for Tweety Bird. They don't want you shooting people. It wouldn't matter if it was the punisher skull king of all firearms vs a break open .22lr.

They hate the idea of you defending yourself with a gun. Not the gun you use. Though they'll certainly take issue if it looks scary enough, but the idea that you shot someone makes you immediately persona non grata and some looney tune vigilante. Doubt me? Look up defensive shootings in Australia...to a freaking T these guys follow the law, but shoot a home invader and you're guilty til proven innocent of murder.

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You are talking apples and oranges here.

Self defense is a legally recognized concept in all 50 state penal codes to one degree or another, even in the bluest of blues states. Even those without castle doctrine where you have a duty to retreat from your own house if it is safe to do so formally recognize self defense by statute as an affirmative defense to murder and assault charges.

Australia and the U.K. literally do not recognize ANY right to self defense. Particularly with weapons. Think US school zero tolerance policy as the law of the land.

[Malamute]

Yes, nobody wants anyone shooting people in their neighborhood, even supposed good people shooting presumed bad people, but using a gun thats specifically not legal in the process is only going to add fuel to the fire in an individuals situation. One may luck out and get an investigator and prosecutor that decide they wont make an issue of it, or you may not. It would seriously suck to end up with firearms charges, even if the shooting situation didnt ultimately become the major issue. I can only guess, but id think that firearms charges in addition to the shooting situation isnt going to help with the shooting issue, even if possibly technically unrelated. it would seem harder to put yourself in a good light with separate charges for illegal firearms.

A friend thats a gunsmith and former cowboy action shooter mentioned he had used an Italian (Uberti) copy of an 1873 Winchester in 45 Colt cal in competition and had shot around 50K rounds through his particular gun with zero functional issues. He said he saw few functional issues with the 73 types, some with other model/types. I do know that 30-30s become extremely hot when fired 6 or 7 rds quickly, but if conditions warranted it, id certainly continue to shoot it. If one can accept using a second gun for pistol training, it may be good for lever action carbine training and practice also. Ive mostly shot 22 for practice, with a Marlin 39M. No idea how many rounds through it since the late 70s. i broke one firing pin, basically from the snap when it ran empty. The stop that prevents the firing pin from going too far forward broke. Technically it still fired, but would be doing damage if i continued to snap it empty when it ran dry.

Not intending to say lever guns are bombproof, but ive had very little problems with any Ive had, in general the Winchesters seem to function more reliably for me, for whatever thats worth. Several Marlins have had little quirky things happen. They can sometimes be show stoppers though. Dont dry fire any of them is the first thing Id advise. None work well with broken firing pins, which is fairly common with dry fire, given the older ones having a rather heavy hammer strike and heavy firing pin mass.

[RevolverRob]

I've no experience with Remington pump action rifles I do however, with lever actions in both 'tactical' competitions and with a specific class for lever actions for defensive use. They have to be allowed to cool down, even the pistol caliber versions. I'd suspect that a cool down period after a short course of fire or drill would work for the Remington pumps as well.

Are you running micro-groove Marlins? I've found the Micro-groove guns heat up much faster than ballard cut rifling guns. Though, I can concur that the guns will get hot. But just for comparative purposes, a dozen rounds through a micro-grove .30-30 336 will leave it hot enough to start stringing bullets out and too hot to touch. By contrast, a .357 ballard-type rifle can fire twice as many rounds before the issues crop up.


Does anybody else wonder about the issue in these threads?

Sure, technical legality of a gun by jurisdiction is good to understand, but people in those restrictive states don't give a shit if it was a break action O/U for Tweety Bird. They don't want you shooting people. It wouldn't matter if it was the punisher skull king of all firearms vs a break open .22lr.

They hate the idea of you defending yourself with a gun. Not the gun you use. Though they'll certainly take issue if it looks scary enough, but the idea that you shot someone makes you immediately persona non grata and some looney tune vigilante. Doubt me? Look up defensive shootings in Australia...to a freaking T these guys follow the law, but shoot a home invader and you're guilty til proven innocent of murder.

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You're guilty until proven innocent in most cases in the U.S. these days as well. But as HCM pointed out, self-defense is a recognized concept in all 50-states. And though you do not want to be involved in a self defense shooting (any where), but especially in "blue states"; it's still best if you can be as legal as possible if you do get involved in a shooting.

Narrative surrounding the shooting situation matters considerably as well. In the case of our OP, he's traveling the countryside, so his wife can be nurse. He's carrying a shotgun, because he travels through bear country in an RV and visits State and National Parks. Some two-legged critter comes for him, he defends himself and his family. If he drops that guy in downtown Chicago? It's going to be all over the news. But still, if the gun is legal, then a prosecutor will have to argue that what was done, was outside the realm of what a "reasonable person" would do. And most reasonable and rational people know fear and are afraid of being injured or killed. If they cannot flee, defense is a very reasonable response.

[Screwball]

You are talking apples and oranges here.

Self defense is a legally recognized concept in all 50 state penal codes to one degree or another, even in the bluest of blues states. Even those without castle doctrine where you have a duty to retreat from your own house if it is safe to do so formally recognize self defense by statute as an affirmative defense to murder and assault charges.

Australia and the U.K. literally do not recognize ANY right to self defense. Particularly with weapons. Think US school zero tolerance policy as the law of the land.

Still need to be conscious of state law...

In NJ, transportation of a pistol can only go between certain places (home, dealer, range, personally owned business that is a fixed location). For long guns, without a FID card, you have similar transportation restrictions (add in a few others, like hunting; with an FID, long guns can sit in your trunk wherever you go).

The question in this situation is whether or not an RV is considered a residence in NJ law. Don’t have one, and won’t have one in the next year I’m in NJ for, but since they specifically point out that a business must be in a fixed location and owner or leased by the individual, I’d say an RV would be a vehicle in the eyes of NJ (that is something to look into, not take my view as gospel). Maybe you rent a space at a RV park... maybe that sets a residence that you are renting. Those are all questions that have relevance to the legality of having a long gun just in NJ. It is just the same as carrying in other states... as you need to know the laws of every state you carry into.

While you have the right to defend yourself, there isn’t any question to NJ’s laws. Just ask those PA residents that legally carry in PA, get stopped in NJ with their firearm for whatever reason... and are charged with illegal possession of a handgun (and hollow points, if it is loaded as such). Without a FID, long gun laws are similarly as restrictive as handguns.

[Malamute]

Rob, were you comparing 30-30 to 357 for barrel heat and number of rounds? if so, I think the cartridge is more the issue than rifling type. The Winchesters have standard rifling, basically what the Ballard type is. They get very hot very fast. Ive just not noticed barrel heat as much in 44 mag or 357. It takes more rounds to get them very hot.

[HCM]

I've no experience with Remington pump action rifles I do however, with lever actions in both 'tactical' competitions and with a specific class for lever actions for defensive use. They have to be allowed to cool down, even the pistol caliber versions. I'd suspect that a cool down period after a short course of fire or drill would work for the Remington pumps as well.

I'm not talking about heating up, I'm talking about durability i.e. they break if you shoot them too much. The Remington pump rifles are surprisingly accurate but basically fragile and a PITA to work on.

The Remington pump rifles are ideal for a guy who gets 4-5 deer seasons out of a 20 round box of ammo.

[HCM]

Still need to be conscious of state law...

In NJ, transportation of a pistol can only go between certain places (home, dealer, range, personally owned business that is a fixed location). For long guns, without a FID card, you have similar transportation restrictions (add in a few others, like hunting; with an FID, long guns can sit in your trunk wherever you go).

The question in this situation is whether or not an RV is considered a residence in NJ law. Don’t have one, and won’t have one in the next year I’m in NJ for, but since they specifically point out that a business must be in a fixed location and owner or leased by the individual, I’d say an RV would be a vehicle in the eyes of NJ (that is something to look into, not take my view as gospel). Maybe you rent a space at a RV park... maybe that sets a residence that you are renting. Those are all questions that have relevance to the legality of having a long gun just in NJ. It is just the same as carrying in other states... as you need to know the laws of every state you carry into.

While you have the right to defend yourself, there isn’t any question to NJ’s laws. Just ask those PA residents that legally carry in PA, get stopped in NJ with their firearm for whatever reason... and are charged with illegal possession of a handgun (and hollow points, if it is loaded as such). Without a FID, long gun laws are similarly as restrictive as handguns.

That is outside the scope of what 45 acp and I are talking about.

NJ's gun laws are patently unconstitutional but that is another issue. Not to mention NJ is so corrupt the law there means what ever the connected want it to mean.

Forget firearms.

You are in your house in NJ - a stranger breaks in and assaults a family member - you hit him with your baseball bat and kil him - 50/50 you may get arrested. Even if you are arrested and charged you can raise self defense as a legal defense at trial. The burden of proof is on you but they have to let you raise the issue and they have to let the jury decide.

You are in your house in UK / Australia - a stranger breaks in and assaults a family member - you hit him with a cricket bat or a golf cub and kill him. You are arrested and charged with murder. Self defense is not a recognized right, it is not an affirmative defense, it does not exist. You murdered a subject of the crown - You go to prison.

Oh and by the way Fuck NJ.

[RevolverRob]

Rob, were you comparing 30-30 to 357 for barrel heat and number of rounds? if so, I think the cartridge is more the issue than rifling type. The Winchesters have standard rifling, basically what the Ballard type is. They get very hot very fast. Ive just not noticed barrel heat as much in 44 mag or 357. It takes more rounds to get them very hot.

That may well be part of the reasoning, but I suspect some of it is the rifling. I know that shooting a micro-groove 1894, and a newer ballard-type 1894 - both in .357 Magnum, that the micro-groove gun definitely heated up faster.

But you're spot on that the pistol-caliber guns just don't heat up as fast as the .30-30 does. My 336 will start to string shots on about the 10-12th round rapid fire, it just ain't a gun meant for shooting high volume through.

[Screwball]

That is outside the scope of what 45 acp and I are talking about.

Roger that... but it pertains to the OP’s situation how?

[OlongJohnson]

I prefer to have the phrase "law abiding gun owner" working for me, not against me.

[Aray]

Except for the 7615p Patrol Rifle. It's actually band by name in Connecticut. :rolleyes:

I stand corrected.

[45dotACP]

Interesting...I was not aware that self defense wasn't a right in the UK and AU. You'd think it would be given that the British legal system was the basis of ours right?

In any case, I guess I just get worried that our nation can fall to their depths if we're not careful. Nothing wrong with having a firearm that's compliant for 50 states...but I still get the sense that some states (NJ for instance) will barbecue you on a spit for defending yourself...50 state legal or not, your rights take a backseat to their crimina.....err voting demographic.

But that's irrelevant to the OP. I digress and apologize.

I'd get a Mossberg 12 gauge pump with the standard length tube for a long gun. Replacement slug barrel for hunting.

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[BillSWPA]

I grew up in NJ, and my father was a general practice attorney with significant criminal law experience, including four years as a special prosecutor in Newark. The laws governing possession, purchase, transportation, and carry are terrible and have gotten worse since I left (a firearms purchaser ID card used to be valid indefinitely even if you moved out of state and covered transportation of handguns as well, all of which is now changed). However, the right to defend oneself is absolutely recognized.

The real problem with the need presented in the original post is not the type of gun chosen, since it is not too hard to choose something that is legal in all 50 states. The problem is actually transporting it into a few of those states as a nonresident. Bad idea in NJ.

For states where it is legal (likely most of them), I would want something with a detachable box magazine so that going from unloaded to loaded is a quick process. The magazine should generally not be in the same compartment of the same container as the gun while it is being transported.

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[Wheeler]

I'm not talking about heating up, I'm talking about durability i.e. they break if you shoot them too much. The Remington pump rifles are surprisingly accurate but basically fragile and a PITA to work on.

The Remington pump rifles are ideal for a guy who gets 4-5 deer seasons out of a 20 round box of ammo.

Gotcha. I knew that some of their semi autos had metallurgy issues, I didn't know that about their pump action rifles.

[Wheeler]

Are you running micro-groove Marlins? I've found the Micro-groove guns heat up much faster than ballard cut rifling guns. Though, I can concur that the guns will get hot. But just for comparative purposes, a dozen rounds through a micro-grove .30-30 336 will leave it hot enough to start stringing bullets out and too hot to touch. By contrast, a .357 ballard-type rifle can fire twice as many rounds before the issues crop up.

No sir. I don't own any Marlins. All my 'high volume' experience has been with Winchesters. I can assure you a model 94 .30/30 gets too hot to touch within 20 rounds of sustained fire.

[StraitR]

Roger that... but it pertains to the OP’s situation how?

My decision is done and in the books, so don't worry about trying to keep the discussion relevant to my situation.

In hindsight, my title choice is a bit of a misnomer when you consider states like NJ, where non-residents cannot posses firearms. NJ a total no-go for non-residents, so ultimately it's irrelevant to the discussion of travel friendly long guns.


ETA:

The real problem with the need presented in the original post is not the type of gun chosen, since it is not too hard to choose something that is legal in all 50 states. The problem is actually transporting it into a few of those states as a nonresident. Bad idea in NJ.


Exactly.

[GJM]

Can you bring ng a shotgun to NJ to hunt or shoot skeet?

[StraitR]

Can you bring ng a shotgun to NJ to hunt or shoot skeet?

I believe, if your destination is in NJ, meaning if a non-resident plans on stopping within NJ in possession of firearms, a Firearms Purchase Identification Card issued by NJ State Police is required, if I've read it correctly. They (NJSP) don't make it easy.

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml

[GJM]

I believe, if your destination is in NJ, meaning if a non-resident plans on stopping within NJ in possession of firearms, a Firearms Purchase Identification Card issued by NJ State Police is required, if I've read it correctly. They (NJSP) don't make it easy.

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/transport-firearm.shtml

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml

This is another reminder why I made the good move to leave the Northeast in 2002.

[Screwball]

In hindsight, my title choice is a bit of a misnomer when you consider states like NJ, where non-residents cannot posses firearms. NJ a total no-go for non-residents, so ultimately it's irrelevant to the discussion of travel friendly long guns.

Non-residents can possess firearms, as described in the law. The RV part isn’t in the law, so would require some research/questioning to answer (gray area, which there might be case law on). My NJ law app isn’t working with the update to iOS 11, and it isn’t worth it to me to search on the web... as there is no use for me to know it.

Non-residents can also get a FID, if it works for that favor. If I have to come back to NJ, LEOSA should be good enough for me. The FID and a blank pistol permit, that I’m planning on getting, will be framed for my office wall, right next to a local police report where the guy stated he was daydreaming when he hit my car, and no tickets were written.


Can you bring ng a shotgun to NJ to hunt or shoot skeet?

Yes, however, the law states that if you don’t have a FID, you are to go from the range to your home (if out of state, that general direction... once over the border, NJ law ends). Hunting is a similar situation. If you are going into NJ regularly for skeet/trap, it would be worth it to consider a non-resident FID. Hunting usually is a little more lax than other shooting sports... even if the guns are the same.

Also, blackpowder guns are included in all this, as NJ considers them firearms. Same with BB guns (a law is proposed each year to take BB guns off the definition for a firearm, but never makes it through).

[StraitR]

@Screwball (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=10103) thanks for the detailed clarification. Like I said, NJSP doesn't make it easy (to understand).

I won't be heading to NJ, NY, CT, or any place that would require me to pass through those states. It's simply not worth the time and effort to understand their complex firearms legislature, or run the risk of misinterpretation.

[BillSWPA]

Although a nonresident can get a firearms purchaser ID card in NJ, the process requires (at least) two trips to New Jersey: one to complete the application, and another to pick up the card. Depending on how exactly they are doing applications, it may require three trips: one to pick up the application, one to submit the completed application, and one to pick up the card. The NJ State Police are no willing to do any part of the process by mail - I called them to ask.

I have never hunted, but my mother lives in NJ, across the street from a wildlife preserve where problem bears from other parts of the state are brought. That was not always the case, and the native bears were never a problem. Now, bear encounters are almost the norm, and may at some point motivate me to take up bear hunting. However, dealing with the whole NJ firearms law mess as a nonresident will not be fun.

[LSP552]

Although a nonresident can get a firearms purchaser ID card in NJ, the process requires (at least) two trips to New Jersey: one to complete the application, and another to pick up the card. Depending on how exactly they are doing applications, it may require three trips: one to pick up the application, one to submit the completed application, and one to pick up the card. The NJ State Police are no willing to do any part of the process by mail - I called them to ask.

That's just retarded!

[Screwball]

Although a nonresident can get a firearms purchaser ID card in NJ, the process requires (at least) two trips to New Jersey: one to complete the application, and another to pick up the card. Depending on how exactly they are doing applications, it may require three trips: one to pick up the application, one to submit the completed application, and one to pick up the card. The NJ State Police are no willing to do any part of the process by mail - I called them to ask.

You forgot the fingerprints... [emoji6]

Been awhile since I did them, but they used to do it at the department you applied at (back when NJSP only wanted ink cards). I believe they moved to contracting it out... electronically. But again, not something I really need to worry about.

Application is available online (fillable PDF, as well as the mental health form), so the only thing you’d have to pick up is the yellow form for the actual background investigation (used to be a specific yellow paper that NJSP only authorized). Towns have started to move towards electronic checks, but even if you went to a barracks, it is one simple form you fill out there (for permits, I would ask for one at the department, and hand in it and the other forms I already completed).

The FID also has a single fingerprint on the reverse... so really can’t mail that to you.

[BillSWPA]

You forgot the fingerprints... [emoji6]

Been awhile since I did them, but they used to do it at the department you applied at (back when NJSP only wanted ink cards). I believe they moved to contracting it out... electronically. But again, not something I really need to worry about.

Application is available online (fillable PDF, as well as the mental health form), so the only thing you’d have to pick up is the yellow form for the actual background investigation (used to be a specific yellow paper that NJSP only authorized). Towns have started to move towards electronic checks, but even if you went to a barracks, it is one simple form you fill out there (for permits, I would ask for one at the department, and hand in it and the other forms I already completed).

The FID also has a single fingerprint on the reverse... so really can’t mail that to you.

If they could accept fingerprints done by the PA State Police, I could get those done 10 minutes from my home.



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[BillSWPA]

You forgot the fingerprints... [emoji6]

Been awhile since I did them, but they used to do it at the department you applied at (back when NJSP only wanted ink cards). I believe they moved to contracting it out... electronically. But again, not something I really need to worry about.

Application is available online (fillable PDF, as well as the mental health form), so the only thing you’d have to pick up is the yellow form for the actual background investigation (used to be a specific yellow paper that NJSP only authorized). Towns have started to move towards electronic checks, but even if you went to a barracks, it is one simple form you fill out there (for permits, I would ask for one at the department, and hand in it and the other forms I already completed).

The FID also has a single fingerprint on the reverse... so really can’t mail that to you.

Found what I believe is all 3 forms. I may try again to see if they will accept mailed forms and fingerprints from the PA State Police. If so, then it would only involve one trip to NJ.

[RevolverRob]

For states where it is legal (likely most of them), I would want something with a detachable box magazine so that going from unloaded to loaded is a quick process. The magazine should generally not be in the same compartment of the same container as the gun while it is being transported.

One issue, one comment.

There are a number of states where box-magazine fed rifles might be problematic. Some states ban loaded magazines or consider a gun "loaded" if there is a loaded magazine not inserted in the gun, but still present.

Comment, this is one advantage of a break action gun (be it rifle or shotgun). Cartridges may have to be stored in a separate container from a magazine, but will not have to be loaded in a magazine and then loaded into a weapon - if you are traveling through jurisdictions where such an issue may occur. I occasionally travel through places like that, this is one reason, I lean towards a break action gun for travel.

[Malamute]

Would stripper clips and a fixed, internal box magazine be considered an unloaded gun in that case? (bolt action rifle)

Logic says no, but logic is not a strong point in some of the laws being mentioned.

[Sigfan26]

The most honest cop I ever talked to (can't remember the name. Wasn't really a shooter) basically said this: If I'm not sure, the court is.


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[willie]

An approved container with a lock for transporting the long gun is an essential item as has been said. I'm not saying you should routinely block access. However, the gun should be locked up when you're not in the vehicle. Many readily see the comfort and security for having a firearm while camping. I don't camp but if I had to stay in a motel and were unarmed, then I would indeed be afraid. Some of us(I)may be guilty of having over thought the question. Even if we did, all of us should now realize that the question is complex. The thread has made me fret a bit. I fear any involvement with our criminal justice system. My comment does no imply that it is corrupt. Attorney expense is one reason. Some will leave you stuck out. Others will take your money and trade you to the assistant d.a while playing golf. Then some are incompetent. Of course, there are many who do not fit the criticisms just mentioned. You're getting the luck of the draw, especially when you must hire one when you are away from home.

[BillSWPA]

One issue, one comment.

There are a number of states where box-magazine fed rifles might be problematic. Some states ban loaded magazines or consider a gun "loaded" if there is a loaded magazine not inserted in the gun, but still present.

Comment, this is one advantage of a break action gun (be it rifle or shotgun). Cartridges may have to be stored in a separate container from a magazine, but will not have to be loaded in a magazine and then loaded into a weapon - if you are traveling through jurisdictions where such an issue may occur. I occasionally travel through places like that, this is one reason, I lean towards a break action gun for travel.

Interesting, and not something I had encountered before.

Pennsylvania considers the gun to be loaded if the magazine is in the same compartment of the same container as the gun, but not if the magazine is in a different compartment of the same container, in a different container, or in the same compartment but also within another container.

Which states would consider the gun loaded if a loaded magazine is present but not in the same compartment of the same container as the gun?



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[Cool Breeze]

Interesting, and not something I had encountered before.

Pennsylvania considers the gun to be loaded if the magazine is in the same compartment of the same container as the gun, but not if the magazine is in a different compartment of the same container, in a different container, or in the same compartment but also within another container.

Which states would consider the gun loaded if a loaded magazine is present but not in the same compartment of the same container as the gun?



Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI remember trying to look this up awhile back and I am not sure there is any centralized compilation of information (although that would be remarkably helpful). Also, I am not sure each law clearly states it and it is more open to general practice of the enforcement of it. Finally, for example, I think in Virginia, certain local town or cities have their own restrictions which defer from the state.

I will say, I have read that where the understanding of loaded and unloaded is so convoluted....some people have gone to pistol ARs and therefore just being covered under their ccw permit.

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[BillSWPA]

I remember trying to look this up awhile back and I am not sure there is any centralized compilation of information (although that would be remarkably helpful). Also, I am not sure each law clearly states it and it is more open to general practice of the enforcement of it. Finally, for example, I think in Virginia, certain local town or cities have their own restrictions which defer from the state.

I will say, I have read that where the understanding of loaded and unloaded is so convoluted....some people have gone to pistol ARs and therefore just being covered under their ccw permit.

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The problem with trying to research this sort of thing is that most states are not as specific in their statutes as PA, and details like this are unlikely to turn up in the case law. It will turn on how "together" the gun and loaded magazine are kept.

Although it would stand to reason that a loaded magazine kept separate from the gun is not a loaded gun, one of the first things I tell people when discussing gun laws is not to expect them to make sense.



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[StraitR]

Here is the result of this discussion, at least the first part of it. Still deciding on which light mount and light. Still need to order some shot cards, thinking 4 shell.

ETA: I'm not sure how close the irons are on the M4 right out of the box, but the T-2 was mounted (LT-751) and zeroed on my SR15 and only required 4 clicks right to co-witness after mounting to the Benelli using the Scalarworks Sync. Will be shooting next weekend. Bought two boxes of Hornady TAP light recoil 00 buck, because that's all my transferring dealer had. Need to order some Federal #1 and 00 Flitecontrol and several kinds of Brenneke's this weekend. What is the preferred Brenneke for either variety of bear?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4508/23527633348_b8a2e6e292_c.jpg

[Inkwell 41]

That's a beauty. LaRocca?

[Inkwell 41]

That is one bad ass SG! I've seen a number of conversions of the Auto-5 and the identical Remington Model 11 to dedicated SD guns, all of which brought the nostalgia, class and style to the table as you described. My father in-law has a Model 11 in his safe.

Though not nostalgic like your Auto-5, I too am fond of stylish SD shotguns;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-30.jpg

That's a beauty. LaRocca?

[NH Shooter]

That's a beauty. LaRocca?

Thanks!

Home brewed. Barrel was shortened from 26 inches to 18-3/4 inches, fiber optic front sight installed and RemChokes reinstalled by local gunsmith. He also shortened the stock by an inch (which is far as it could be cut) bringing the LOP down to 12-3/4 inches.

I installed the Dave's Metal Works extended carrier release and bolt handle, Vang Comp safety, Wolff magazine spring, S&J Hardware delrin follower, magazine extension, etc.

My current WML set up consists of a L&M mount (http://www.mountsplus.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=MSP&Screen=PROD&Product_code=123-LMS-LM) with a Malkoff M61T MD2 (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/malkoff-led-flashlights/products/m61t-md2) light.

[NH Shooter]

What is the preferred Brenneke for either variety of bear?

Their Heavy Field Short Magnum (http://www.brennekeusa.com/hunting-ammunition/green-lightningr/) shoots well out of my two 1187s. It is a very stout load.

[NH Shooter]

FWIW, I've been thinking of the Stoeger Coach Gun (http://www.stoegerindustries.com/coach-guns-single-and-double-trigger-shotguns) in 12 gauge for quite a while as something to take along when we stay with our unarmed relatives in NY;


https://www.ableammo.com/catalog/images/stoeger/coach_single_triggers_large_20ga.jpg


It breaks down and fits in small travel duffel easily. It wouldn't be my first choice in an extended SHTF scenario but should be legal anywhere common folks are allowed to have firearms. Of course with the right load the terminal results are without question, and staring down the barrels of a 12 gauge side-by-side has a deterrent affect not matched by many other small arms.

[GJM]

https://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/ammo-12-gauge-brenneke-usa-green-lightning-heavy-field-short-magnum-2-3-4-1-1-4-oz-lead-slug-1476-fps-5-rounds-sl122hfsgl-4030128120782.do?sortby=ourPicks&refType=&from=Search

2.75 full strength Brenneke slugs

[Ed L]

I am not a fan of the double barreled shotgun for defensive use for obvious reasons.

*However* for a legal gun that you can conveniently fit into luggage and bring to states like NY where unlicensed possession of a handgun will get you thrown in jail, a double has some things going for it. I see it as something that you can slip into your regular luggage from its airline approved case and bring it into the hotel with you to give you something for hotel room defense.

Here is a picture of my disassembled double.

20584

[Ed L]

I don't know that there are any 50 state guns.

From what I can tell, NJ and Massachusetts are the most restrictive.

As mentioned upthread, NJ has its own laws that would seem to make it illegal for out of staters to own firearms in the state without a permit, unless under a very limited set of circumstances. It seems that you can travel through the state with NJ legal guns, but not stop there.

Massachusetts requires permits for all guns. You can get an out of state permit with one or two trips to Mass, which makes it inconvenient to say the least. I believe you can bring guns in if you are using them to shoot competition or something like that.

[StraitR]

I don't know that there are any 50 state guns.

From what I can tell, NJ and Massachusetts are the most restrictive.

As mentioned upthread, NJ has its own laws that would seem to make it illegal for out of staters to own firearms in the state without a permit, unless under a very limited set of circumstances. It seems that you can travel through the state with NJ legal guns, but not stop there.

Massachusetts requires permits for all guns. You can get an out of state permit with one or two trips to Mass, which makes it inconvenient to say the least. I believe you can bring guns in if you are using them to shoot competition or something like that.


Agreed. Based on legislation in some states that prohibit non-residents from possessing firearms, there really isn't a 50 state legal gun, of any fashion. In that way, the title is a misnomer. That said, there are 47 or 48ish other states in which travel with firearms is permitted, granted they comply with local restrictions. I don't know how many are officially "off the table", but I know they're all up in the Northeast. For those that look to travel in that direction, it would be wise to find out exactly what the laws are for the states you intend on visiting.

[Rex G]

Here is the result of this discussion, at least the first part of it. Still deciding on which light mount and light. Still need to order some shot cards, thinking 4 shell.

ETA: I'm not sure how close the irons are on the M4 right out of the box, but the T-2 was mounted (LT-751) and zeroed on my SR15 and only required 4 clicks right to co-witness after mounting to the Benelli using the Scalarworks Sync. Will be shooting next weekend. Bought two boxes of Hornady TAP light recoil 00 buck, because that's all my transferring dealer had. Need to order some Federal #1 and 00 Flitecontrol and several kinds of Brenneke's this weekend. What is the preferred Brenneke for either variety of bear?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4508/23527633348_b8a2e6e292_c.jpg

This. I like. I handled an M4 a couple of weeks ago. I may buy one as a retirement gift for myself.

My current police duty shotgun, privately-owned, is a Benelli M2, a Field model, with 18.5" rifle-sight Tactical barrel. (PD rules = no optical sights.) To keep it light, the mag tube is not extended, which will help with legal aspect when traveling out-of-state. This gun will probably wear an Aimpoint Micro soon after I retire; I have a 21" vent rib barrel that can accommodate an S-1.

[StraitR]

This. I like. I handled an M4 a couple of weeks ago. I may buy one as a retirement gift for myself.

My current police duty shotgun, privately-owned, is a Benelli M2, a Field model, with 18.5" rifle-sight Tactical barrel. (PD rules = no optical sights.) To keep it light, the mag tube is not extended, which will help with legal aspect when traveling out-of-state. This gun will probably wear an Aimpoint Micro soon after I retire; I have a 21" vent rib barrel that can accommodate an S-1.

Compared to the 26" M2 Field I had a few years ago, the M4 is noticeably heavier. What's more apparent, is the bulk of that weight being up front, really changing the handling compared to the svelte weight and feel of the M2. Frankly, if I wasn't setting this shotgun up for a very specific purpose to include an optic, 4 shot card sidesaddle, light, and sling, I would have opted for the lighter inertia driven M2.

[RevolverRob]

I've decided to construct a "low budget" 47-state legal shotgun, after spending too much time thinking about it.

I'm going to start with a Stevens 301 or Topper 148 in 12-gauge (whichever I find cheapest). Plan so far is: cut barrel back to 18-20", thread for screw-in chokes, install large Sunspot bead, drill and tap receiver for optics mount down the line. My plan is to basically use this as my general purpose traveling/farm/ranch work gun. Since long-term I intend to get a Salvo 12, I want to thread the gun for chokes so I can eventually run an adapter and mount the suppressor. With a Burris Speedbead mounted on top, I'll have a slick little 47-state legal gun for traveling, with the suppressor mounted, I'll have a very slick "around the house" gun for critter control.

[Ed L]

I've decided to construct a "low budget" 47-state legal shotgun, after spending too much time thinking about it.

I'm going to start with a Stevens 301 or Topper 148 in 12-gauge (whichever I find cheapest). Plan so far is: cut barrel back to 18-20", thread for screw-in chokes, install large Sunspot bead, drill and tap receiver for optics mount down the line. My plan is to basically use this as my general purpose traveling/farm/ranch work gun. Since long-term I intend to get a Salvo 12, I want to thread the gun for chokes so I can eventually run an adapter and mount the suppressor. With a Burris Speedbead mounted on top, I'll have a slick little 47-state legal gun for traveling, with the suppressor mounted, I'll have a very slick "around the house" gun for critter control.

A single barrel shotgun is of even less use than a double barrel--especially when you are talking about mounting a suppressor and setting it up for an optic. The first thing you need is the capability to fire more rounds without having to reload. Forget about a supressor or optic or spending money on it to make it accommodate them. And why would you want a single barrel for around the house use? I would rather just buy a Mossberg 500 with a bead sight, 5 round magazine, and 18.5" barrel and be done with it. You can unscrew the barrel without having to remove the magazine spring and put it into a variety of carrying cases to bring it into a hotel room.

[NH Shooter]

A single (or double) barrel SG is shorter, lighter, can be stowed in a smaller space and carried broken down more discreetly than any pump/auto. It's also cheaper and probably more reliable than a cheap pump. For the intended purpose of a low-cost travel/trunk gun, it has merit.

Ever see Clint Smith run a single shot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NSLxxDWpOI)?

Note - my 1187 with barrel and mag extension removed is 32" long, even with the shortened stock.

Edit;

Nearly 40 years ago I had a H&R single shot in 10 gauge with a barrel cut to 18.5 inches. We shot 3-1/2" buckshot loads with it.

Holy $hit on so many levels and yes, it was every bit retarded as it sounds.

[Ed L]

I think these 50 state legal (or 47 state legal guns) is a losing proposition because you are building an inferior product that might be marginal in certain restrictive states, while you could have better products in others.

In my case I happen to have the double barreled shotgun. I realize that it is a possible firearm to bring to NY state since all handguns require strict licensing and unlicensed handguns are a felony.

The shotgun breaks down and is convenient to get a small hardcase to transport on an airline and once off the airline could be transferred into a regular bag to bring up to a hotel room, or to keep in the car unloaded in accordance with NY state laws. Though if I had a situation that required a defensive gun I am not sure how an unloaded gun in the trunk or a locked case with the ammo separate is going to be useful.

It is convenient for breaking down and storage and loading and unloading presumably for hotel room defense. I agree it is more convenient than a pumpgun that can be easily disassembled, but it is still 2 shots.

As to that video of Clint Smith shooting a single shot gun and reloaded--easy to do when no one is opposing you. I wonder how many people bring single shot shotguns to his shotgun classes.

[NH Shooter]

I think these 50 state legal (or 47 state legal guns) is a losing proposition because you are building an inferior product that might be marginal in certain restrictive states, while you could have better products in others.



Agreed, it's all situation dependent.

I have the situation of living in NH and visiting relatives (and staying with them in their home) on Long Island. Taking my AR or any handgun there is a felony, and a 1187 too big to conceal in any luggage I own. A double like yours (or a single as described by RR) would fit broken-down in my normally-used travel duffel and come inside "under the radar." This, IMO, is infinitely better than nothing at all in home defense scenario.

If I wasn't related to a bunch of hoplophobics one of my 1187s would be the ticket.

[GJM]

I have a very neat, Brockman modified, side by side 12 gauge with aperture sights, minimum legal barrels, and a butt cuff. Fits in a tiny case.

[Sigfan26]

I have a very neat, Brockman modified, side by side 12 gauge with aperture sights, minimum legal barrels, and a butt cuff. Fits in a tiny case.

I hate you... SOOOOO MUCH!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Got a picture?

Not handy, but I will take a picture of it with its case, when I get near it.

[RevolverRob]

A single barrel shotgun is of even less use than a double barrel--especially when you are talking about mounting a suppressor and setting it up for an optic. The first thing you need is the capability to fire more rounds without having to reload. Forget about a supressor or optic or spending money on it to make it accommodate them. And why would you want a single barrel for around the house use? I would rather just buy a Mossberg 500 with a bead sight, 5 round magazine, and 18.5" barrel and be done with it. You can unscrew the barrel without having to remove the magazine spring and put it into a variety of carrying cases to bring it into a hotel room.

First, I grew up running a single-shot gun to take game, including bird hunting. It's not difficult to run one effectively with practice.

Second, I have at last count, five shotguns, all with 21" or shorter barrels, all pump guns. So, I don't really need another pump shotgun and for two-legged humans a pump gun is my go to - Unless - traveling.

Three, traveling through the states I most frequently travel through, require all long guns to be unloaded. An 18.5" Remington 870 with a 12.5" LOP stock barely fits width wise in the trunk of my subcompact car, as in, it's jammed into place and is not easily removed. Yes, I could remove the barrel...thereby defeating the purpose of having a long-gun...By virtue of not having a reciprocating action, an 18.5" single or double is a full 3-4" shorter and fits with ease. Break-action guns can be stowed open (easily) and a shell insert and snapped shut. Yes, you can store a pump gun with the action slid back and throw a round in the chamber, but to fit in my trunk, it needs a stock too short to be effective, needs to be pistol grip, or needs to have a folding stock. None of which are ideal, in my opinion. By contrast, a full sized gun can fit, yes you lose capacity, that's the trade off.

Finally, when I said "critter gun" I meant - critters, like the four-legged kind. Like raccoons in the garbage, snakes by the porch, tarantula migration across the road, fox in the hen-house, and if necessary humans. But a single-shot gun is very utilitarian in this sense, it's easy to carry in the field (usually a full pound or more lighter than a comparable pump), and it is very easy to break the action open and change loads relative to what you need it for. Then genuine utility of a shotgun, beyond defense, is being able to tailor loads to it. This is the type of gun I spent my youth with, handling stuff around a farm with. A single shot 12 does just about everything you could want it to do and can be pressed into defensive service as needed (like when traveling around in places that are less than ideal, which I do more of than I'd like to, but am required to).

In terms of suppressing, like I said, this is the dual purpose "around the house" critter gun meant for pest control and vermin of all types, and a very specific defensive role when traveling. When it comes time to grab a shotgun - at home - to defend the 'stead I have a pump and soon a semi-auto on tap for engaging multiple targets. That said, it's easy to setup a shotgun of this type in a low cost way and prep it for dual use.

Single barrel over double is for two reasons - eventually, being able to run a suppressor (the optic will be mounted to be able to sight with the can attached) because a 12-gauge shotgun, fired inside a tin shed at rabid skunk is LOUD (ask my tinnitus how loud...). Second, most double guns do not have ejectors, or if they do, they have shitty ejectors. The spring loaded ejector found in the H&R Topper is an excellent design that is simple and works. I've seen Toppers that are easily 75-80 years old that eject a shell as hard as a brand new gun, and they've never been worked on. Hit the latch on the side of the gun and it will drop open, flinging the empty (or loaded) case well clear of the gun, allowing one to focus on reloading and getting the gun back in action.

[Ed L]

Agreed, it's all situation dependent.

I have the situation of living in NH and visiting relatives (and staying with them in their home) on Long Island. Taking my AR or any handgun there is a felony, and a 1187 too big to conceal in any luggage I own. A double like yours (or a single as described by RR) would fit broken-down in my normally-used travel duffel and come inside "under the radar." This, IMO, is infinitely better than nothing at all in home defense scenario.

If I wasn't related to a bunch of hoplophobics one of my 1187s would be the ticket.

I can understand your delima. I would look for a double barrel like mine--which is a no longer imported Remington Biakal-- something that can be broken down into a small package and give you at least two shots before requiring reloading. Or the detestable Mossberg Maverick over and under. It has twin 18.5" barrels and I imagine it breaks down. It has rails for a light and a red dot. I imagine it breaks down into several components. Normally for its price I would suggest getting a Mossberg pumpaction. But in your case something that breaks into a small package trumps all else.

[NH Shooter]

I can understand your delima. I would look for a double barrel like mine--

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?27918-Lefever-16-should-I-cut-it

I'm going to have the barrel cut to 21" and (perhaps) some flush choke tubes installed. It will fit nicely broken down in my 22" duffel. :-)

[Rex G]

Agreed, it's all situation dependent.

I have the situation of living in NH and visiting relatives (and staying with them in their home) on Long Island. Taking my AR or any handgun there is a felony, and a 1187 too big to conceal in any luggage I own. A double like yours (or a single as described by RR) would fit broken-down in my normally-used travel duffel and come inside "under the radar." This, IMO, is infinitely better than nothing at all in home defense scenario.

If I wasn't related to a bunch of hoplophobics one of my 1187s would be the ticket.

The USA's NE is an interesting area, indeed, for compliance with firearms laws, with such widely varying and contrasting laws, curved highways that repeatedly cross state lines, and some states being the size of small counties, by western USA standards. (Actually, Rhode Island, IIRC, has less land area than the city of Houston, Texas.) A downed tree, swollen creek, or rock slide could compel one to make an unexpected detour into a different state.

I live in Texas, but visited the NE multiple times in the Nineties. In those pre-LEOSA days, I usually did not bring a firearm, but did bring a handgun at least once, and remember having to be so VERY careful to comply with FOPA, which included a non-stop passage through NYC and NJ.

[Grouse870]

20629
This is my single shot that I put together. The barrel is 19” and it’s in 20 gauge. I inletted the forearm so I can just unscrew the forearm screw a little bit and slide it forward so it breaks down in half easier. For a general travel type gun it works pretty well. I’ve got a little bag that this fits in along with a 20 gauge to .410 adapter and a break down .22 a couple of boxes of ammo and it’s still pretty light and covers a lot of bases although far from perfect for self defense.

[dave72]

I have a very neat, Brockman modified, side by side 12 gauge with aperture sights, minimum legal barrels, and a butt cuff. Fits in a tiny case.

sounds alot like Louis road shotgun

[Wheeler]

My preferred travel long gun for the past few years has been a Ruger 10/22 Takedown with a set of Williams Fire Sights FO's, a Ruger BX trigger, a 10 round magazine loaded with CCI MiniMag 40 grain HP's, two of the BX-15's loaded with the same, and a BX-25 loaded with Aquila Super Extra 40 grain solids. Recently the companion piece has been a S&W 43c and a speed strip. My son and I had to make an emergency trip to VA this past weekend, during the drive he mentioned that we should keep going all the way to NY. I had a bit of a pause when I realized that both of my options would get me jail time in NY and NJ. Fortunately I don't have any business that far north. :)

[OlongJohnson]

^^^ Have you considered Velocitors?

---------------------

Since we're tangenting all over the place in this thread, I found a pic of an FN FAL wood forend adapted to an AR. But those aren't exactly easy to find. Has anyone seen or heard of a shotgun forend being adapted to work with a delta ring setup for an AR forend? Could be an interesting way to go Fudd-friendlier. And yes, I'm aware of the Boyd's laminate stuff.

What I'm getting at is a notion of the Fightlite lower discussed earlier in this thread with some old, pretty Rem 1100 furniture front and rear. Would need to fill in the top somehow, but one could fabricate something out of sheet metal or carbon fiber, or maybe just hacking up some Magpul plastic would work.

[jandbj]

^^^ Have you considered Velocitors?

---------------------

Since we're tangenting all over the place in this thread, I found a pic of an FN FAL wood forend adapted to an AR. But those aren't exactly easy to find. Has anyone seen or heard of a shotgun forend being adapted to work with a delta ring setup for an AR forend? Could be an interesting way to go Fudd-friendlier. And yes, I'm aware of the Boyd's laminate stuff.

What I'm getting at is a notion of the Fightlite lower discussed earlier in this thread with some old, pretty Rem 1100 furniture front and rear. Would need to fill in the top somehow, but one could fabricate something out of sheet metal or carbon fiber, or maybe just hacking up some Magpul plastic would work.

Betting you could have some m-lok compatible pieces of laminated wood fabricated to fancy up regular MOE handguards.

[jandbj]

My preferred travel long gun for the past few years has been a Ruger 10/22 Takedown with a set of Williams Fire Sights FO's, a Ruger BX trigger, a 10 round magazine loaded with CCI MiniMag 40 grain HP's, two of the BX-15's loaded with the same, and a BX-25 loaded with Aquila Super Extra 40 grain solids. Recently the companion piece has been a S&W 43c and a speed strip.

Liking these choices where mag capacity isn't an issue. Still Fudd friendly too.

[OlongJohnson]

Betting you could have some m-lok compatible pieces of laminated wood fabricated to fancy up regular MOE handguards.

I want actual wood parts, not just...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQKfUSMigHw

[Wheeler]

^^^ Have you considered Velocitors?

---------------------

Since we're tangenting all over the place in this thread, I found a pic of an FN FAL wood forend adapted to an AR. But those aren't exactly easy to find. Has anyone seen or heard of a shotgun forend being adapted to work with a delta ring setup for an AR forend? Could be an interesting way to go Fudd-friendlier. And yes, I'm aware of the Boyd's laminate stuff.

What I'm getting at is a notion of the Fightlite lower discussed earlier in this thread with some old, pretty Rem 1100 furniture front and rear. Would need to fill in the top somehow, but one could fabricate something out of sheet metal or carbon fiber, or maybe just hacking up some Magpul plastic would work.

I get better accuracy out of the MiniMags and Aquila.

[RevolverRob]

It begins...with a H&R Topper M48 that I scored off of Gunbroker for $41.74 earlier today...

20779

[Bigghoss]

It begins...with a H&R Topper M48 that I scored off of Gunbroker for $41.74 earlier today...

20779

Nice. Looks like an old one. The release is different than the later ones.

[Totem Polar]

May as well ask this question here: is there any OAL restrictions to watch for when cutting a side by side down? I have an old stevens 311 that could be fun with a trim to 18.5 and 12/13 pull back/front. Just musing aloud.

[peterb]

26" length overall minimum.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2/download

[OlongJohnson]

Check state laws as well. Most mirror federal, but there could always be some variation.

[NH Shooter]

May as well ask this question here: is there any OAL restrictions to watch for when cutting a side by side down? I have an old stevens 311 that could be fun with a trim to 18.5 and 12/13 pull back/front. Just musing aloud.

18" minimum barrel length, 26" minimum overall as per NFA.

FYI, my Lefever 16 gauge with 20" barrels and 13/14" LOPs measures 36" OAL. At 6.0 pounds it feels slim, trim and fast in the hands. Broken-down it fits comfortably in my 22" duffel. I still need to find a leather shotshell carrier for the stock;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/lefever-1.jpg

[RevolverRob]

It begins...with a H&R Topper M48 that I scored off of Gunbroker for $41.74 earlier today...

20779

I finally got down to Texas and grabbed this from my FFL. After pulling the gun apart, cleaning it and inspecting everything, everything was in good solid working order. I was satisfied I had a solid project to begin.

First thing's first - check the regs on shortening shotgun barrels - https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/atf-national-firearms-act-handbook-chapter-2/download - From the breechface, on a closed action, insert a dowel rod measuring 18", if it drops in and barrel covers it, you're legal.

Next, using a pair of iron gas pipe cutters - https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-5-8-in-to-2-1-8-in-Model-20-Screw-Feed-Tubing-and-Conduit-Cutter-32930/202826769 and some cutting oil, mark your barrel cut. Slowly, using minimal pressure from the cutters, cut the barrel. I turned the cutters a full turn twice, before lightly tightening the screw. You want to go slow, use lots of oil, and not apply too much pressure on the tubing screw on one side or you will force the barrel out of round. Be sure to hold onto the portion of the barrel you're cutting, or it will come off at an angle and your crown won't be flush and then you'll have to fix it (ask me how I know...:rolleyes:).

After fucking up the first crown to cut the gun to a 21" barrel, I cut it down to 19", to flush the barrel. (Protip: You can always cut something too long again, but something too short is a Federal crime...Cut longer first, in case you screw up).

After that it's all over but the crying from shooting this thing with buckshot that is...:(

My LOP was just a shade over 13", the slip-on Limbsaver made it a bit long for my taste, so I chopped it, slightly, to give me a 13.5" LOP. I may go shorter in the future with a 12" LOP synthetic stock, we'll see. A slip on elastic shell holder and a snap-on Truglo fiber-optic front sight, round out this project for now. Loaded with Hornady TAP (Versatite) 8-pellet 00 buck, I can consistently keep all 8-pellets in a B27 at 25 yards. At 10-15, I'm seeing softball-grapefruit sized patterns. Good enough for a gun that is intended to shoot "minute of three lanes of traffic" or "minute of motel room".

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[OlongJohnson]

Pretty good pricing on the Fightlite SCR here:

https://www.gunsmidwest.com/fightlite-scr-lower-rcvr-assy-mc-blk.html

[UNK]

Not handy, but I will take a picture of it with its case, when I get near it.

Still waiting on that pic :o

[JodyH]

Steyr Scout with Aimpoint T2
About as vanilla of a 50 state legal SD/HD rifle as you can get.
Loaded with 168 A-Max or 165 GMX I'd have no problems relying on it for self defense against anything 2 or 4 legged in the lower 48.

22854

[GJM]

Still waiting on that pic :o


22872

[dave72]

22872

louis is smiling sir...........if his lips could move lol