New Wilson Beretta -- Centurion Tactical

[GJM]

I think there may be a new Wilson Beretta, come early October. It will be well received here.

[TCFD273]

Man! Looking forward to it


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[GardoneVT]

I think there may be a new Wilson Beretta, come early October. It will be well received here.

Welcome news!

In the meantime ,here's a picture of my pair for morale purposes.
https://i.imgur.com/Ofj3JKK_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[STI]

Tease

[DAB]

oh, you'll love it..

ordered mine early Dec. last year, got it early July this year. Merry Christmas to me.

shot it last weekend at a local steel match. a friend noticed it. he wasn't a fan of anything Beretta. so i let him shoot it...... "well, this is really nice, nice DA pull on first shot". might have made him reconsider the 92.

mine loves both the sand resistant mags it came with (got 3 extra for a total of 6) as well as my 18 round Men-Gar mags. no problems with it.

[Cory]

That isn't much to go on.

Right now what I'm really wishing and wanting is the Langdon M9A1/Vertec pistol. If the new Wilson is something similar, or could be likened to the Px4CC but on a 92 platform I would be paying attention and comparing it to my planned next purchase. Either way, I think a removable front sight would be pretty necessary for me to consider it over the coming Langdon pistol.

-Cory

[LSP552]

My Wilson BrigTac is rapidly becoming my favorite serious pistol. I'm looking at smaller and other options that work the same. Passion of the gun thingy and I have always shot TDA pretty well. At the moment, I'm leaning towards a 92FS Compact and an EL PX4CC. But I can wait a few weeks...maybe:D

[GardoneVT]

That isn't much to go on.

Right now what I'm really wishing and wanting is the Langdon M9A1/Vertec pistol. If the new Wilson is something similar, or could be likened to the Px4CC but on a 92 platform I would be paying attention and comparing it to my planned next purchase. Either way, I think a removable front sight would be pretty necessary for me to consider it over the coming Langdon pistol.

-Cory

Sounds like the M9A3 already checks the boxes you need, unless I'm missing something in your criteria.

[MattyD380]

Nice. I'm interested. I'd interested to see something of the compact variety.

As in... 92 compact.

[MSparks909]

Nice. I'm interested. I'd interested to see something of the compact variety.

As in... 92 compact.

They already introduced a compact...the Compact Carry.

I hope it's a dovetailed "G" Centurion with either a M9A1 or a non-railed frame. I'll take either.

[JTQ]

If we're guessing, my guess is a PX4 (I'm hoping for a full size) with stippling (note Wilson's new Glock frame treatments), and a bunch of other stuff.

In the Langdon "PX4 Compact might be my DA/SA Glock 19" thread ( https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19 ), nearly all of the things Ernest did to his own gun in the first post ended up on the PX4CC, except for the stippling job. I understand why Beretta/Robar/Langdon couldn't do that treatment from a time/cost perspective, but it was the only feature I really wanted over the factory gun (well G model, too).

I think Wilson gives it to us now that they've got some talented stippling guys/gals on the staff.

[MSparks909]

If we're guessing, my guess is a PX4 (I'm hoping for a full size) with stippling (note Wilson's new Glock frame treatments), and a bunch of other stuff.

In the Langdon "PX4 Compact might be my DA/SA Glock 19" thread ( https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19 ), nearly all of the things Ernest did to his own gun in the first post ended up on the PX4CC, except for the stippling job. I understand why Beretta/Robar/Langdon couldn't do that treatment from a time/cost perspective, but it was the only feature I really wanted over the factory gun (well G model, too).

I think Wilson gives it to us now that they've got some talented stippling guys/gals on the staff.

Quite frankly, I'd rather send my full size PX4s to Robar/LTT and have them copy their Mod 4 modifications. Not sure how much Wilson could bring to the table with a modified PX4 over what Robar/LTT currently offer.

[GJM]

I am on a short leash here, but I will say this is not merely cosmetic, it is the configuration that I always wished Beretta built. I am down for multiple copies.

[Hot Sauce]

I am on a short leash here, but I will say this is not merely cosmetic, it is the configuration that I always wished Beretta built. I am down for multiple copies.This may very well be true, but when are you NOT down for multiple copies?

[GJM]

This may very well be true, but when are you NOT down for multiple copies?


Hey, two is one.....

[Cory]

Sounds like the M9A3 already checks the boxes you need, unless I'm missing something in your criteria.

Regular back strap frame. I'm not a fan of the Vertec back strap, and the wrap around conversion grips leave you no options for grip thickness. In addition, you are stuck with the rubberized feel. I'm not a fan of rubber grips either. A regular frame (with rail) and vertec slide is what I want. The coming Langdon offers that, the M9A3 doesn't.

-Cory

[JTQ]

I am on a short leash here, but I will say this is not merely cosmetic, it is the configuration that I always wished Beretta built. I am down for multiple copies.
Probably not my guess or wish, then. However, that's OK, something else would be cool too.

[MSparks909]

Regular back strap frame. I'm not a fan of the Vertec back strap, and the wrap around conversion grips leave you no options for grip thickness. In addition, you are stuck with the rubberized feel. I'm not a fan of rubber grips either. A regular frame (with rail) and vertec slide is what I want. The coming Langdon offers that, the M9A3 doesn't.

-Cory

Beretta is selling Vertec slides on their website...pick up a M9A1 or if you already have a M9A1 just buy the new upper and bam! Langdon Special you can configure how you want (grips, sights, trigger, mag release). If I could find a new M9A1 frame I'd have a Vertec upper on the way already...

[Lon]

I am on a short leash here, but I will say this is not merely cosmetic, it is the configuration that I always wished Beretta built. I am down for multiple copies.

Alright, who volunteers to search all his Beretta posts for hints about what the hell he's talking about?

[GardoneVT]

Alright, who volunteers to search all his Beretta posts for hints about what the hell he's talking about?

A Centurion with dovetailed or fiber optic sights would be nifty. You get better parts compatibility with the full size guns going that route vs the compacts.

[GJM]

A Centurion with dovetailed or fiber optic sights would be nifty. You get better parts compatibility with the full size guns going that route vs the compacts.

My understanding from Ernest, is that Centurion and Compact uppers and lowers interchange, but not with the full size.

[StraitR]

I am on a short leash here, but I will say this is not merely cosmetic, it is the configuration that I always wished Beretta built. I am down for multiple copies.

Well that dashes my hopes and dreams, as a SAO Centurion is not the configuration I envision GJM "always wishing Beretta built". :p

[GardoneVT]

My understanding from Ernest, is that Centurion and Compact uppers and lowers interchange, but not with the full size.
Good point .

I was thinking along the lines of grips, hammer, slide lock,trigger,etc. I remember Langdon saying the same thing.

[GardoneVT]

Well that dashes my hopes and dreams, as a SAO Centurion is not the configuration I envision GJM "always wishing Beretta built". :p

Honestly, a SAO Beretta is a mixed bag ergonomically. AGW (Allegheny Gun Works) did work years ago on converting DAO 92a to SA using factory parts and I looked into a gun configured as such .After researching the ergos I scrapped the project: the Beretta SA safety is a big honking lever right where my support hand parks. It's not like the PT92 where it's a stubby little lever.

So. Beware what you wish for on that score.

[MattyD380]

They already introduced a compact...the Compact Carry.

I hope it's a dovetailed "G" Centurion with either a M9A1 or a non-railed frame. I'll take either.

Yeah, I kinda wish they brought back the compact carry. Or some other flavor of compact.

But a Centurion would be cool too.

[Willard]

Would love to see a D model, but I seriously doubt this is in the works.

[StraitR]

Honestly, a SAO Beretta is a mixed bag ergonomically. AGW (Allegheny Gun Works) did work years ago on converting DAO 92a to SA using factory parts and I looked into a gun configured as such .After researching the ergos I scrapped the project: the Beretta SA safety is a big honking lever right where my support hand parks. It's not like the PT92 where it's a stubby little lever.

So. Beware what you wish for on that score.

Understood. At this point, the EDC X9 can fill the same void, but at a much higher cost.

[Dave J]

IIRC, Bill Wilson hinted at "something in between a full size and a compact" shortly after the Brig Tac was released, which a lot of us took to mean a Centurion style gun. We later got the Compact Carry, but I suspect a Centurion may still be on his to-do list.

I would love to see a dovetailed front sight, but I doubt that Beretta can provide the slides, as this reportedly would require a new forging, meaning it would involve significant tooling costs. I'll be ecstatic if they prove me wrong, though. If it's the current short slide, I'm hoping that a factory tritium front is an option.

[OlongJohnson]

My understanding from Ernest, is that Centurion and Compact uppers and lowers interchange, but not with the full size.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12560-Beretta-92-compact-slide-on-full-size-frame

[Jared]

My understanding from Ernest, is that Centurion and Compact uppers and lowers interchange, but not with the full size.

The rails that the barrel rides in are shorter on the lowers machined for the short slides than they are on the lowers made for the full slide, along with a couple other things. That was the explanation for why you couldn't build your own Centurion with a compact top end on a standard lower.

[JSGlock34]

IIRC, Bill Wilson hinted at "something in between a full size and a compact" shortly after the Brig Tac was released, which a lot of us took to mean a Centurion style gun. We later got the Compact Carry, but I suspect a Centurion may still be on his to-do list.

You are correct - after the Brigadier Tactical was introduced, Bill Wilson previously stated on Beretta forum that he has two other projects planned with Beretta USA. He stated one will be smaller than a Brigadier Tactical and larger than a compact. I agree that the Centurion size is a logical progression. He also hinted that the other will be neither a 'FS' or 'G' (D or SAO?)...but GJM noted that Bill Wilson builds pistols he likes to shoot, and Mr. Wilson doesn't carry a D or SAO model...however he has sometimes paired the 'D' upper with 'FS' lower...


Alright, who volunteers to search all his Beretta posts for hints about what the hell he's talking about?

Just because I like stirring the pot with rampant speculation and old posts...


I have a picture of a gorgeous 92D, so converted by a friend, but since it is his pistol, with a bunch of neat mods, I am not comfortable posting it until he gives the go ahead. I don't have one of these converted yet, just a 92D Centurion to serve as base gun for such a project.

[M2CattleCo]

Compact railed frame with full size top end. Dovtailed sights. ??

[opmike]

The Centurion has always left me cold, and I don't understand why someone wouldn't just go for the Brig Tac. The longer top-end isn't nearly as challenging to deal with in a carry role as is the length and width of a pistol's grip.

DAO? God I hope not.

[GardoneVT]

.

DAO? God I hope not.

The Beretta incarnation of DAO is one of the most hailed in terms of trigger feel ,as it's just the DA press with the SA hammer notch removed. That's in factory form; a DAO Beretta Centurion with a bobbed hammer , slick slide ,fiber optic and/or night front sight featuring an action tune is about as close to the perfect hammer fired carry gun you'll get this side of a Smith and Wesson ASP (remember those?). I'm a dedicated DA/SA guy ,and the idea of a DAO Wilson Centurion is giving me the mental goosebumps.

[Lon]

Compact railed frame with full size top end. Dovtailed sights. ??

That would be cool.

[JSGlock34]

I am on a short leash here, but I will say this is not merely cosmetic, it is the configuration that I always wished Beretta built. I am down for multiple copies.


DAO? God I hope not.

I don't think DAO is a configuration that GJM always wished Beretta built...


I had picked up a 92D Centurion a few months back, that I got around to shooting. After shooting it, I have to say that I prefer the classic Beretta DA/SA trigger.

On a lark, I grabbed a regular 92 lower and put it on making a slick side, no de-cock DA/SA Beretta. Bill Wilson had told me about this. Liked it much better with the classic lower, and boy is it a slick package!

[Willard]

...however he has sometimes paired the 'D' upper with 'FS' lower...Just because I like stirring the pot with rampant speculation and old posts...

If it is a D, I am going to be in a lot of marital and financial trouble. I may also develop a 'hoarder' disorder.

[opmike]

The Beretta incarnation of DAO is one of the most hailed in terms of trigger feel ,as it's just the DA press with the SA hammer notch removed. That's in factory form; a DAO Beretta Centurion with a bobbed hammer , slick slide ,fiber optic and/or night front sight featuring an action tune is about as close to the perfect hammer fired carry gun you'll get this side of a Smith and Wesson ASP (remember those?). I'm a dedicated DA/SA guy ,and the idea of a DAO Wilson Centurion is giving me the mental goosebumps.

Yeah, I've spent enough time behind a 92D to come to the conclusion that it's just not my cup of tea. Lord Timer says I'm faster and more consistent with DA/SA than the various DAO autos I've tried to warm to, so I've run out of any kind of objective argument for them to replace my current preferred configuration. I'll stop there so I don't drift the thread into a debate about DAO vs. DA/SA. Such a system just wouldn't be a part of my special snowflake gun.

All that aside, I was going to pull the trigger on a PX4 Compact Carry tomorrow during my lunch break, but this news has put everything on hold to be sure.

[GJM]

It is amazing is how far BerettaUSA has come in just a few years, in making handguns that meet the needs of enthusiasts. I can remember, not that long ago, when a Beretta handgun was as cool as your grandfather's old Buick. Now, they are cranking out very interesting, high quality pistols. Since we know success has many parents, consider:

1) Beretta got out of Maryland, which sent a message to state governments that pass onerous gun laws. They made the move to TN, which was enormous logistically, to restart manufacturing in a different place.

2) we have multiple people from Beretta management that participate on PF, and are engaged in what we think.

3) Bill Wilson got tired of paying a lot of money on GunBroker, buying used Beretta pistols, since all the good models were out of production. Taking a big financial risk, he committed to a big lot of pistols with the Brig Tac, in a configuration he was passionate about. That has made high quality pistols, in a configuration we want, available new for a lot less money than they went for used. Wilson Combat followed up with the Compact 92, and are on the verge of doing it with a new model.

4) Wilson Combat manufactures high quality Beretta accessories, including their trigger bar, the Pepperoni rear sight, and much more. They also have in incredible in house pistolsmithing capability now for the 92 series.

5) You have all the work Ernest Langdon did with the PX4C. That gun had a terrible reputation, through no fault of the gun, and EL turned that 180 degrees, by combining the right mods to make it perform, and proving with his shooting, how well it can be shot. I think it punches way above its size, and is one of the best carry guns period. And, then you have all the other projects he is working on.

This is a great time for Beretta and Beretta pistol enthusiasts, and five years ago, I would never have guessed it would happen. Heck, I have even got Darryl shooting Beretta pistols, which given his fan boy status with HK, uunderscores how far Beretta has come. :)

[Lon]

I'm still waiting for EL to do his magic on a MRDS PX4C. I really wish BUSA or WC would come out with a compact slide that's got a front dovetail. That was my only complaint with the M9A1 Compact I tricked out a few years ago.

[MattyD380]

The 92 compact carry was probably my ideal 92 configuration. Unfortunately, I just didn't get a chance to get one before they were 4 billion dollars. So, I guess I wouldn't mind another shot at an upgraded compact model. The original 92 compact carry seemed pretty popular... is there any reason they wouldn't bring it back?

That said... my mostly stock (aside from hammer springs) 92 compacts shoot great. Makes me wonder if I really "need" a souped-up model.

But we all know "need" is a funny thing when it comes to cool guns.

[LangdonTactical]

Some of you are really close, some of you are not close at all.

It will be quite a bit different from the 92 that I am doing with Beretta, not a PX4 and not DAO.

Many of you will be very happy.

That's it, no more info from me :)

[HCM]

My official guess - 92G Centurion.

[LockedBreech]

Some of you are really close, some of you are not close at all.

It will be quite a bit different from the 92 that I am doing with Beretta, not a PX4 and not DAO.

Many of you will be very happy.

That's it, no more info from me :)

Can you stop costing me money man?

[Robinson]

Man sometimes I really wish my thumbs worked with the Beretta safety/decocker levers.

[STI]

My official guess - 92G Centurion.

With front dovetail mmmmmmm

[Dave J]

The Centurion has always left me cold, and I don't understand why someone wouldn't just go for the Brig Tac. The longer top-end isn't nearly as challenging to deal with in a carry role as is the length and width of a pistol's grip.


I didn't "get" the Centurion concept either.

Until I shot one.

[gomerpyle]

My official guess - 92G Centurion.

I so hope this is the case. Just sold a full sized M9 because, well, its size!

J

[Cory]

With front dovetail mmmmmmm

I hope whatever it is has a front dovetail. I think you're right about a centurion, but if it is they'll be high priced and gone fast because so many people want them.

I like the concept of commander/centurion guns, but am oddly curious about the opposite, compact frame full slide. Never held anything like that but i get the idea. Never held a centurion but a 1911 commander has great balance.

-Cory

[Papalapa]

My official guess Beretta/Wilson Combat 1301 shotgun. ��

[MSparks909]

My official guess Beretta/Wilson Combat 1301 shotgun. ��

That would be quite a curveball. But albeit it wouldn't be too unexpected.

[GardoneVT]

My official guess Beretta/Wilson Combat 1301 shotgun. ��

Well , on time mortgage payments are overrated anyways. Sign me up!

[PGT]

Bill posted on the Beretta Forum that he really likes frame safety guns and Centurions. I'll second the 92G Centurion as the best guess, especially because the G kits are easy and functional and wouldn't take any more effort than Beretta pulling compact slides off the line and adjusting the dust cover on the frame to match.

I really hope its a 92G Centurion with front dovetail but perhaps a drilled out fixed front post with fiber insert is a good second choice.

[LSP552]

I really hope its a 92G Centurion with front dovetail but perhaps a drilled out fixed front post with fiber insert is a good second choice.

Im going to end up with a Compact with the fiber option. Sure would love a dovetail!

[PGT]

Im going to end up with a Compact with the fiber option. Sure would love a dovetail!

Yep but there's not enough meat on it. Beretta has in the past offered LE guns with a bit of an oddball slide. Not quite a Vertec, not quite a Brig with front dovetail. I'll see if I can find a pic...someone ran across one this summer that dated to the 1990's.

[Sal Picante]

This is the big thing: Beretta has some cool stuff: Brig slide, vertec slides, G-levers, etc. but I think even they forget they have the cool stuff and how to put it together and market it.

That's, IMHO, where Wilson and Langdon really shine. They show you the cool products and help generate a "full package" that people, you know, actually want...

[PGT]

This is the big thing: Beretta has some cool stuff: Brig slide, vertec slides, G-levers, etc. but I think even they forget they have the cool stuff and how to put it together and market it.

That's, IMHO, where Wilson and Langdon really shine. They show you the cool products and help generate a "full package" that people, you know, actually want...

Like the Langdon M9 that Beretta is making available next month and currently marketing?

[GardoneVT]

This is the big thing: Beretta has some cool stuff: Brig slide, vertec slides, G-levers, etc. but I think even they forget they have the cool stuff and how to put it together and market it.

That's, IMHO, where Wilson and Langdon really shine. They show you the cool products and help generate a "full package" that people, you know, actually want...

In all fairness to Beretta though , the business case only works when it's marketed by a niche custom house like WC or LT.

Beretta made the 92G-SD and Elite models for years,and the market reacted with a big fat "meh". Without a custom shop label behind it they won't move many non M9 Berettas to non enthusiast shooters. It goes without saying there's not enough gun geeks like us to make a specialty model such as a Brig Tac profitable.

[PGT]

In all fairness to Beretta though , the business case only works when it's marketed by a niche custom house like WC or LT.

Its being marketed by Beretta, however. Sure, its got Ernie's name on it...same as the PX4 CC.


Beretta made the 92G-SD and Elite models for years,and the market reacted with a big fat "meh". Without a custom shop label behind it they won't move many non M9 Berettas to non enthusiast shooters. It goes without saying there's not enough gun geeks like us to make a specialty model such as a Brig Tac profitable.

And yet, the M9A3 is a runaway success and had no niche name attached. That said, I agree with what you said...just look at auction prices on BrigTacs vs. 92G-SD's and you can see empirical evidence of what a "brand" can do to the value of a product.

[PGT]

I found the details on that weird 96D Centurion I mentioned. Its got a front dovetail and the slide profile when viewed from the muzzle is closer to that of a Brigadier or Vertec over a standard Centurion w/ fixed front sight. The GB auction (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/673734826) will go away so I saved most of the 33 pics that are relevant in this album: https://imgur.com/a/lx2fy

Of note...its Italian made and s/n dates it as 1994 w/ order code PO969DCENA.
"M96D CENT., ADJ. FRT. SIGHT, NO SAFETY"

Very curious. So...this type slide with G-kit or machined for 92G levers and with Wilson's touch could be a winner.

https://i.imgur.com/TdTvA8Gl.png

https://i.imgur.com/j9VSKCdl.png

https://i.imgur.com/8tItvZal.png

[GJM]

Here is a clue -- the new gun is a 9mm.

[PGT]

Here is a clue -- the new gun is a 9mm.

:p

[DAB]

Here is a clue -- the new gun is a 9mm.



can we play 20 questions? :)

shot my Brig-Tac today, sweet pistol. so if i'm going to add to my collection, it has to be special in some way. either features, price, looks (an engraved 92 would be nice), or some combo. no point buying another if i already have one that does what the new one does just as well. i shoot my guns, i'm not much into collecting just for the sake of having one of every version of some pistol.

i'll stay tuned.

[GJM]

can we play 20 questions? :)

shot my Brig-Tac today, sweet pistol. so if i'm going to add to my collection, it has to be special in some way. either features, price, looks (an engraved 92 would be nice), or some combo. no point buying another if i already have one that does what the new one does just as well. i shoot my guns, i'm not much into collecting just for the sake of having one of every version of some pistol.

i'll stay tuned.

I have ten or fifteen metal Beretta pistols, and I could replace them all with two or three of the new model.

[DAB]

well, since the new thing is "modularity" (p320, APX are current examples), it would be neat if you could mix and match pieces and parts to make yourself a modular 92. serialized frame with changeable backstrap (so you can have either classic or vertec grip), D spring, long or short slide/barrel, replaceable sights, easy F to G conversion. buy the frame from Wilson, then spec out the other parts you want on it to make it just special for you.

i have no idea what is planned, i'm just thinking outside the box.

but i still love my Brig-Tac.

[breakingtime91]

I have ten or fifteen metal Beretta pistols, and I could replace them all with two or three of the new model.

centurion slide, vertec frame, and g model?

[opmike]

I didn't "get" the Centurion concept either.

Until I shot one.

Care to elaborate?

[Dave J]

Care to elaborate?

Certainly.

IMHO, the compact slide guns track really flat, without giving up any much in the way of practical accuracy compared to the full size guns. I think they really shine in the zone where defensive engagements typically occur, say 15 yards and in. This is probably the main reason I like them so much. I've shot better on drills like "the test" with a Centurion than anything else. At 25 and beyond, I can probably do a little better with a full size, but the compact and centurion still group quite well at the 50 yard line.

For me, the short slide guns are slightly more comfortable when carried AIWB. My full size AIWB holsters all have a little cant dialed in for comfort, but the compact slides I can carry "straight up" which I think makes for a slightly more direct draw stroke, and comfort is less dependent on holster position. I also think the full size grip is an advantage when it comes to a rapid presentation, and for maintaining a firm grip during rapid fire.

In terms of concealment, a full size Beretta still has a relatively short grip compared to other choices such as the P30, P226, G17, etc, so for AIWB, I usually don't feel the need to switch to a compact to keep the grip hidden. For conventional OWB, the compact frame probably has more of an advantage, though.

Hope this helps explain my opinion. I was much more of a "short grip, long slide" advocate, until I got my hands on a Compact and later, a Centurion.

[Bucky]

It is amazing is how far BerettaUSA has come in just a few years, in making handguns that meet the needs of enthusiasts. I can remember, not that long ago, when a Beretta handgun was as cool as your grandfather's old Buick. Now, they are cranking out very interesting, high quality pistols. Since we know success has many parents, consider:


They may have come back a bit, but I still think they're a ways off from where the were 15 or so years ago, at least with regards to the 92 pistols. It was more diverse when they had Elite 2s, Elite E1As, Vertecs, GSDs, Steel 1s, Compacts, Centurions, Combats, etc.

[nightstalker865]

Can't wait for the this to drop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[El Cid]

I have ten or fifteen metal Beretta pistols, and I could replace them all with two or three of the new model.

Ahh! Of course. It's a Wilson Combat 93R-G. ;)

[guymontag]

I have ten or fifteen metal Beretta pistols, and I could replace them all with two or three of the new model.

Must be a CZ variant then. Not for you specifically - meaning a pistol that's better than Beretta. :p

[PGT]

They may have come back a bit, but I still think they're a ways off from where the were 15 or so years ago, at least with regards to the 92 pistols. It was more diverse when they had Elite 2s, Elite E1As, Vertecs, GSDs, Steel 1s, Compacts, Centurions, Combats, etc.

Yep. I own several of those and it seems the 'heyday' was 95-05 for interesting variations. Special modesl didn't always sell well when new but they're coveted now.

[GardoneVT]

Must be a CZ variant then. Not for you specifically - meaning a pistol that's better than Beretta. :p

Clearly that gun ain't made by CZ.Or Tanfoglio. Or SAR Arms. Or Sphinxx.Or IWI......

[JonInWA]

Hmmm, ok, I'll play. A 92D Centurion (or Compact L) with a light rail, dovetail sights, Wilson/Langdon triggerbar, 13-14# mainspring, (i.e., incorporating Wilson's Ultimate 92 Tuning Kit) Langdon LTT or Wilson VZ Ultra-Thin G10 grips, orange-surrounded green tritium front sight, Wilson U-Notch rear battlesight, 3 magazines, Beretta or Wilson extended/checkered magazine release.

Closest guesser here gets one of the guns as a prize, right??

Best, Jon

[JonInWA]

Hmmm, ok, I'll play. A 92D Centurion (or Compact L) with a light rail, dovetail sights, Wilson/Langdon triggerbar, 13-14# mainspring, (i.e., incorporating Wilson's Ultimate 92 Tuning Kit) Langdon LTT or Wilson VZ Ultra-Thin G10 grips, orange-surrounded green tritium front sight, Wilson U-Notch rear battlesight, 3 magazines, Beretta or Wilson extended/checkered magazine release.

Closest guesser here gets one of the guns as a prize, right??

Best, Jon

[Bigghoss]

Hmmm, ok, I'll play. A 92D Centurion (or Compact L) with a light rail, dovetail sights, Wilson/Langdon triggerbar, 13-14# mainspring, (i.e., incorporating Wilson's Ultimate 92 Tuning Kit) Langdon LTT or Wilson VZ Ultra-Thin G10 grips, orange-surrounded green tritium front sight, Wilson U-Notch rear battlesight, 3 magazines, Beretta or Wilson extended/checkered magazine release.

Closest guesser here gets one of the guns as a prize, right??

Best, Jon

I hope it's this. The 92D centurions just look sexy as heck. One with a rail and dovetailed sights would be awesome. With the Wilson springs I put in my Berettas I could see a 92D working out pretty well.

[opmike]

Guys, it's already been stated that the gun isn't DAO. We're going in circles, here.

[PGT]

Yeah, the pics I posted are to show a dovetailed front Centurion did exist at some point in Beretta's history (the fact it was a DAO was irrelevant). A 92G Centurion with F/R Trijicons w/ Wilson's program would be sweet.

[JonInWA]

Guys, it's already been stated that the gun isn't DAO. We're going in circles, here.

Oh yeah, right-just went back to EL's earlier post where he did specify " ...not DAO."

Oh, well. Sounds like no prize for moi. But one can dream...(and for the record, I still think there's some validity for my guess-maybe in the future...)

Best, Jon

[timotab]

Centurion length D slide with dovetail front.
Railed TDA lower with rounded trigger guard.
No safety or de-cocker but still a DA/SA.
Decock like a CZ-75 with your support hand thumb between the slide and hammer.

[Bucky]

Oh yeah, right-just went back to EL's earlier post where he did specify " ...not DAO."

Oh, well. Sounds like no prize for moi. But one can dream...(and for the record, I still think there's some validity for my guess-maybe in the future...)

Best, Jon

The market for DA / SA has certainly declined. I'd have to thing the market for a full on / true DAO gun must be minuscule at this point. Not that we don't see value here, but many here are not the average buyer.

[Bucky]

Centurion length D slide with dovetail front.
Railed TDA lower with rounded trigger guard.
No safety or de-cocker but still a DA/SA.
Decock like a CZ-75 with your support hand thumb between the slide and hammer.

Might as well go all out and add the frame mounted safety then, for total coolness.

[DAB]

bah! they are making their own double stack 9mm 1911. or not.

[Bigghoss]

Centurion length D slide with dovetail front.
Railed TDA lower with rounded trigger guard.
No safety or de-cocker but still a DA/SA.
Decock like a CZ-75 with your support hand thumb between the slide and hammer.

Dear God, no.



Might as well go all out and add the frame mounted safety then, for total coolness.

This.



I'm hoping it's either a centurion or compact G model. Though is Mr. Wilson likes the frame safeties then it could be one of those.

[HCM]

Centurion length D slide with dovetail front.
Railed TDA lower with rounded trigger guard.
No safety or de-cocker but still a DA/SA.
Decock like a CZ-75 with your support hand thumb between the slide and hammer.

This is a recipe for an eventual ND. I'd be surprised of anyone would make something like this in the U.S. today.

[opmike]

Decock like a CZ-75 with your support hand thumb between the slide and hammer.

*sigh*

[spinmove_]

No safety or de-cocker but still a DA/SA.
Decock like a CZ-75 with your support hand thumb between the slide and hammer.

Wat? No...just, no.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[timotab]

It's pretty easy to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpcHRoL35Po

[opmike]

Good lord, this thread is about to jump the shark.

Any more teasers guys? We need some cropped pictures to pore over before people in this thread start talking about .45 GAP.

[Clobbersaurus]

It's pretty easy to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpcHRoL35Po

You are talking about a competition technique used in a controlled setting with the gun pointed directly at the berm. In ANY other application I can't see anyone actually wanting to use that technique.

Let's please get back to the topic of the Wilson Centurion G with dovetailed sights. :cool:

[GJM]

If you guys keep going on tangents, I may have to see about jiggling Bill for some more clues.

[Sal Picante]

You are talking about a competition technique used in a controlled setting with the gun pointed directly at the berm. In ANY other application I can't see anyone actually wanting to use that technique.

Let's please get back to the topic of the Wilson Centurion G with dovetailed sights. :cool:

This. +1.

[Matt O]

If you guys keep going on tangents, I may have to see about jiggling Bill for some more clues.

Quick, more tangents!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[timotab]

Quick, more tangents!

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I did my part, next :D

[Balisong]

Quick, more tangents!


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What's better, 9mm or .45?

[Exiledviking]

Will it be approved for sale in California to civilians...?

[AdioSS]

Centurion length D slide with dovetail front.
Railed TDA lower with rounded trigger guard.
No safety or de-cocker but still a DA/SA.
Decock like a CZ-75 with your support hand thumb between the slide and hammer.
Lots of folks here don't seem too keen on that, but Bill Wilson did mention something VERY MUCH like that on the Beretta Forum a while back ;)
http://berettaforum.net/vb/showpost.php?p=990987&postcount=29

Lots of good reasons listed here to prefer the G over FS variant. However the main reason I dislike the FS hasn't been mentioned. When doing high speed draws from a hands at my sides starting position, I have swiped the safety on during the draw stroke several times. For this reason I have removed the right side lever on my FS guns and also reduced the size of the left side lever.

Being a old revolver guy I'm used to lowering the hammer with my thumb anyway and never use the de-cocker anyway so I actually prefer a D gun converted to DA/SA for my personal use. Didn't seem to be a problem with the original 92 frame safety guns !!!!

In my opinion the slide mounted safety/de-cocker is a solution to a problem that didn't exist. All part of the dumbing down of society that effects every facet of our world .................

And I totally agree! Most of my Beretta's are set up that way ;) :D

[TheNewbie]

I am probably not understanding this. Bill Wilson thinks decockers are not needed?

[spinmove_]

It's pretty easy to do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpcHRoL35Po

Yeah, I don't want to have to do that when I'm in a hurry and/or stressed and/or compromised physically and/or physically moving from target to target without the option of a safety.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[CraigS]

Me either. I sure hope the gun is a G.

[spinmove_]

I'll tangent.

92 Centurion G, with thin Wilson G10 grips, low profile de-cocking lever(s), dovetailed front sight, Wilson/Vickers Battlesights, Wilson mag release, D mainspring, low profile hammer, trigger guard undercut, railed dust cover, and optional Wilson short reach trigger.

That sounds about right.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[45dotACP]

I was about to buy a new 1911 but I may just need to wait and see. I love the way my 92 compact tracks and it's also the most accurate Beretta I have for whatever reason. I have been wanting a Centurion for a bit now.

Y'all suck.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Robinson]

I'll tangent.

92 Centurion G, with thin Wilson G10 grips, low profile de-cocking lever(s), dovetailed front sight, Wilson/Vickers Battlesights, Wilson mag release, D mainspring, low profile hammer, trigger guard undercut, railed dust cover, and optional Wilson short reach trigger.

That sounds about right.


That would actually be very tempting, even to this 1911 guy. I'd rather have a more traditional rear sight and can take or leave the rail on a Centurion size frame, but other than that your description sounds great. Beretta should be making Centurions, which seems like it would be easy to do since it's basically a Compact slide on a full size frame.

[GardoneVT]

They could do an SAO Centruion, which would be interesting as IIRC Beretta never made a compact SAO model from the factory. It would basically be a poor mans EDC X9.

[Robinson]

They could do an SAO Centruion, which would be interesting as IIRC Beretta never made a compact SAO model from the factory. It would basically be a poor mans EDC X9.

The 1911 and EDX X9 work as single action guns because the ergonomics are right. Unless they could make the position of the safety such that it works as well as a 1911-based gun I think I would rather have a D or G model Centurion.

[jeep45238]

The 1911 and EDX X9 work as single action guns because the ergonomics are right. Unless they could make the position of the safety such that it works as well as a 1911-based gun I think I would rather have a D or G model Centurion.

Sao berettas have frame mounted 1911ish located safeties


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Personally - I'd seriously consider a SAO Centurion.

Example:
https://www.1911addicts.com/threads/beretta-92-centurion-sao-project-in-the-works.12212/

[Lon]

I'll tangent.

92 Centurion G, with thin Wilson G10 grips, low profile de-cocking lever(s), dovetailed front sight, Wilson/Vickers Battlesights, Wilson mag release, D mainspring, low profile hammer, trigger guard undercut, railed dust cover, and optional Wilson short reach trigger.

That sounds about right.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

You just about spec'd out my dream Beretta. Mine would be a Compact railed frame.

[GJM]

Just hung up with the head shed, and have two more clues.

1) if you load all the magazines that come with the pistol, it will take more than a box of ammo.

2) the front sight is orange.

[WobblyPossum]

So it comes with 3 MecGar 18 rounders and a decent front sight.


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[spinmove_]

Just hung up with the head shed, and have two more clues.

1) if you load all the magazines that come with the pistol, it will take more than a box of ammo.

2) the front sight is orange.

Interesting. So that means it'll probably a full framed pistol of some type because 3 - 18 round Mec-Gar magazines. I wonder if they are making a special Wilson front sight, they're going with Trijicon HDs, or AmeriGlo is starting to make more Beretta sights.

I still say Centurion of some flavor. They've already done the Brig-Tac thing and it doesn't make sense to ship a Compact with magazines that large.


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[GJM]

So it comes with 3 MecGar 18 rounders and a decent front sight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are half right.

[spinmove_]

You are half right.

But...you're not going to tell us which half is right, are you?


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[EricM]

Some interesting things from 2014...


My "holy grail" for a carry gun is a Centurion with a Vertec style upper (dovetailed front and rear sight), G conversion, railed lower.


And I found out yesterday that Beretta made a 92G Vertec Centurion! I did not know such a thing existed. So a compact slide, G, with a dove tail front sight! That would be the bomb on my 92 Compact or an M9A1 Compact!

I handled a Wilson 92G Compact Carry at Gabe's class over the weekend...took about 2 seconds to decide I need a 92. Can't even describe how nice those G10 grips felt after a couple days shooting my Langdon PX4C with Talons.

[GJM]

But...you're not going to tell us which half is right, are you?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

It has a good front sight.

[MSparks909]

Interesting. So that means it'll probably a full framed pistol of some type because 3 - 18 round Mec-Gar magazines. I wonder if they are making a special Wilson front sight, they're going with Trijicon HDs, or AmeriGlo is starting to make more Beretta sights.

I still say Centurion of some flavor. They've already done the Brig-Tac thing and it doesn't make sense to ship a Compact with magazines that large.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

Or it comes with 4 magazines? Or it's a PX4 with (3) 17 round magazines?

Aluminum or polymer frame? Though if you answer that I'm pretty sure you'll give it away.

[GJM]

It comes with multiple magazines that hold 54 rounds between them, but no magazine holds 18.

[spinmove_]

It comes with multiple magazines that hold 54 rounds between them, but no magazine holds 18.

Alright, officially confused.

Are you saying that these (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1371194236/mec-gar-optimum-magazine-with-base-pad-beretta-92-9mm-luger-steel-anti-friction-black) don't exist or are you saying that whatever this new hotness is it comes with 6 9-round magazines?


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[MSparks909]

I give up. Couldn't think of any mag combination that Beretta currently uses to get me to 54 rounds. Guess I'll just have to be patient.

[GJM]

Alright, officially confused.

Are you saying that these (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1371194236/mec-gar-optimum-magazine-with-base-pad-beretta-92-9mm-luger-steel-anti-friction-black) don't exist or are you saying that whatever this new hotness is it comes with 6 9-round magazines?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

I am saying that the magazines that come with the pistol hold 54 cartridges. None of the magazines are MecGar or any other brand 18 round magazines.

[MSparks909]

Alright, officially confused.

Are you saying that these (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1371194236/mec-gar-optimum-magazine-with-base-pad-beretta-92-9mm-luger-steel-anti-friction-black) don't exist or are you saying that whatever this new hotness is it comes with 6 9-round magazines?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

I will be thoroughly let down if it's a single stack 9 round gun.

[GJM]

I give up. Couldn't think of any mag combination that Beretta currently uses to get me to 54 rounds. Guess I'll just have to be patient.


How about if the magazines have different capacities?

[Robinson]

Okay 17+17+20. You're killing us already.

[STI]

GJM could pre-sell a gun without released specs it looks like :)

[Doc_Glock]

I am saying that the magazines that come with the pistol hold 54 cartridges. None of the magazines are MecGar or any other brand 18 round magazines.

Two 15s, and a 20. Beretta makes a 20 right?

[MSparks909]

Two 15s, and a 20. Beretta makes a 20 right?

Two 17s and a 20. Beretta makes a 20 for both the 92 and PX4.

[Doc_Glock]

Two 17s and a 20. Beretta makes a 20 for both the 92 and PX4.

Duh. Somehow I brain farted that while typing.

Thanks for quoting me before I could edit;)

Math is hard.

[Dave J]

It would really be a surprise if it were a compact with 4 standard 13-round magazines.

[Robinson]

Must be a bad math day for some folks. :)

[MSparks909]

Must be a bad math day for some folks. :)

Extremely hungover...brain isn't firing right!

[warpedcamshaft]

It's gotta be a Vertec 92G or a Centurion G.

They make vertec grips, so why not a vertec gun?

[OlongJohnson]

17+17+10+10=54

It's also a logical combination of magazines.

[Guerrero]

Okay 17+17+20. You're killing us already.I have that combo for the Px4

[Eli]

Quick range trip this morning with my new (to me) Brigadier Tactical. I've only had it a couple days, but I LOVE this pistol. Looking forward to whatever else Wilson will be putting out in the 92 line.

https://i.imgur.com/7cNPZ8Q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HoNzNfY.jpg

[Sigfan26]

A Wilson Combat 90-Two!

[GJM]

The Brig Tac is awesome, and one of my favorites, although at times it feels a bit big for every day carry.

[Bucky]

A Wilson Combat 90-Two!

I love Berettas, but please NO.

[warpedcamshaft]

The Brig Tac is awesome, and one of my favorites, although at times it feels a bit big for every day carry.

Centurion confirmed!

;)

[jrm]

13*3+15=54 compact with 3, 13 round mags (available for purchase on the Wilson Combat site)plus a 15 round standard 92 mag?

[MSparks909]

I hope it's not another 92 compact...full size grip please!

[warpedcamshaft]

13*3+15=54 compact with 3, 13 round mags (available for purchase on the Wilson Combat site)plus a 15 round standard 92 mag?

It looks like the Wilson Brig Tac came with 3 mags, not 4... So I'd guess its a full size frame.

[Cory]

Centurion confirmed!

;)

Kind of think there is no other way it could go at this point. With the quote of Langdon mentioning that there was at one time a Vertec G Centurion that EricM found...

Some interesting things from 2014...

I handled a Wilson 92G Compact Carry at Gabe's class over the weekend...took about 2 seconds to decide I need a 92. Can't even describe how nice those G10 grips felt after a couple days shooting my Langdon PX4C with Talons.

Bill Wilson previous statements about something between full size and compact, support centurion model.
GJM giving us potential round counts, the full size frame seems a certainty.
GJM also mentions ease of carry being something he values. And this gun is one he will like.
Langdon previously mentions a 92G Centurion Vertec was once available.

Seems pretty much set that this is the longest name in Beretta history. The "Wilson Combat Beretta 92G Centurion Vertec Carry" or possibly even "Wilson Combat Beretta 92G Centurion Vertec Carry Tactical" if it has a rail.

-Cory

[Bere09]

Long time lurker and rare poster here. I feel compelled to chime in with a guess though. I'm going with a 92 G or PX4 with a full sized slide on a compact frame of some sort. GJM mentioned the ability to replace his 10-15 Beretta's with 2-3 of these. I'm guessing the gun will come with 4 magazines. 2-17 rounders and 2-10 rounders. The 17 rounders will have grip extensions on them allowing the gun to feel like a full sized gun with the 17's and a compact gun with the 10 rounders.

[Robinson]

Mr. Langdon mentioned it's not a PX4.

[MattyD380]

Seems like a Centurion of some kind is the most consistent expectation.

Not that a Centurion wouldn't be neat. But personally, the extra grip length (for me) isn't worth the rounds it gives you. I'd rather see a full-fledged compact.

Also... the idea that Bill Wilson likes "frame mounted safeties" came up. Eh. We talking SAO here? I'm not really interested in an SAO 92 to be honest.

What would be awesome... is a safety/decocker system like what's on the Cheetah. It's a decocking safety, but frame mounted. Put that on a tuned Compact--you've got my attention.

[jrm]

Without 18 rounders which were ruled out earlier 3 mags I think the only other option is 2, 17 round mags and a 20 round mag witch doesn't seem logical given the standard mags that come with the Brigtac.

[JonInWA]

Hmmm..On the other hand, perhaps George and Mrs. George had a bet over morning coffee, "Just how long would it take to get a 15 page thread on p-f?"

You're a BAD man, George! (but assuming the original thread premise is the true one, I'm still intrigued)

Best, Jon

[Sal Picante]

Hmmm..On the other hand, perhaps George and Mrs. George had a bet over morning coffee, "Just how long would it take to get a 15 page thread on p-f?"

You're a BAD man, George! (but assuming the original thread premise is the true one, I'm still intrigued)

Best, Jon


Not vapor-ware...

:)

[GJM]

Hmmm..On the other hand, perhaps George and Mrs. George had a bet over morning coffee, "Just how long would it take to get a 15 page thread on p-f?"

You're a BAD man, George! (but assuming the original thread premise is the true one, I'm still intrigued)

Best, Jon

Bill Wilson is a funny guy, but he is dead serious when it comes to metal Beretta pistols.

Keep in mind, that Centurion and Compact uppers and lowers interchange, so if did turn out to be a metal Beretta shorter than a Brig Tac, you could alternatively use whatever lower you wanted (rail, no rail, Centurion, Compact). Of course, I have also heard Bill rave about the SAO 92, and he has the horsepower to get whatever Beretta configuration he wants built.

[DAB]

you really are not helping me.

i have some $$ in my pocket, and i'm heading to the grand opening of the Cabelas in Albuquerque this thursday. but.....if Beretta and Wilson get together to produce something really interesting, then i'm going to be interested in that.....

i previously guess a SA 1911 like pistol, and i'm sticking with that. double stack mag, SA trigger, maybe 92 slide and barrel. may as well go with frame mounted safety. from what i've read of Bill Wilson, he likes short barrels (4 to 4.25") but full capacity magazines (thus full size grips), as that combo is easy to carry and conceal. just look at his new EDC X9, that's exactly what that is. may as well make a pistol just for ESP and daily carry. lot more buyers at 1500 than at 3000+.

[LockedBreech]

Alright, so this is an absolute pipe dream, but what if it's a frame-safety or SAO 92-series?

[Sigfan26]

Without 18 rounders which were ruled out earlier 3 mags I think the only other option is 2, 17 round mags and a 20 round mag witch doesn't seem logical given the standard mags that come with the Brigtac.

17X3= 51. A typical box is 50.

[Sigfan26]

I REALLY hope it has a 92D hammer with a single action notch.

[Sal Picante]

I REALLY hope it has a 92D hammer with a single action notch.

Allegheny makes those...

[jrm]

17X3= 51. A typical box is 50.

I don't know how to double quote from my phone but post #117 says 54 rounds no 18 round mags.

[Sigfan26]

I don't know how to double quote from my phone but post #117 says 54 rounds no 18 round mags.

Missed that one (I was going by GJM's over one box comment).

[GardoneVT]

http://www.iltiro.com/tiroavolo/media/annunci/93765/superbig/1455387411.jpg

Here's my stab in the dark. Because a Wilson Combat SAO Beretta Combat + 3 twenty round mags would be the bomb dot com.

[OlongJohnson]

Two 17s for America and two tens for gaming and travel in totalitarian regimes.

http://www.berettausa.com/en-us/beretta-92fs-magazine-9mm-17-or-96-40sandw-12/

Those factory mags point to a full-size grip. I am guessing the Centurion format is a lock. I think we've established the existence of part numbers, released drawings and past production of a short "Vertec" slide and G lever. Add the rest of the stuff from the Langdon M9 and sell it anywhere close to a Langdon M9 price, and I'm in. I choke on paying 2x for what really amounts to a few trim upgrades, though.

I hope they dial back the grit blasting of the frames before anodizing. The last few I've handled in the LGS were disappointingly rough.

BTW, for whoever brought up the Cheetah safety, that thing sucks. A situation like the dead zone where it clicks into a false detent in which it is not in the "fire" position, is not decocked and is not on safe (will still fire SA if the trigger is pressed) has led to recalls from other manufacturers.

[El Cid]

Bill Wilson is a funny guy, but he is dead serious when it comes to metal Beretta pistols.

Keep in mind, that Centurion and Compact uppers and lowers interchange, so if did turn out to be a metal Beretta shorter than a Brig Tac, you could alternatively use whatever lower you wanted (rail, no rail, Centurion, Compact). Of course, I have also heard Bill rave about the SAO 92, and he has the horsepower to get whatever Beretta configuration he wants built.

I'd love an SAO!

[Lon]

Any one else hate GJM right about now?

[GJM]

Any one else hate GJM right about now?

Hey, don't shoot the messenger!!

[Wondering Beard]

Hey, don't shoot the messenger!!

You need to remember that the Vienna Convention is pretty recent. Humanity has been shooting the messenger for a lot longer ;-)

[Sal Picante]

Hey, don't shoot the messenger!!

I'm glad that hate you and not me... :)

[MattyD380]

BTW, for whoever brought up the Cheetah safety, that thing sucks. A situation like the dead zone where it clicks into a false detent in which it is not in the "fire" position, is not decocked and is not on safe (will still fire SA if the trigger is pressed) has led to recalls from other manufacturers.

It was me.

Hmm. I've never actually used one. But it looked good in theory.

If it does suck... then... a new version of it that doesn't suck! Hooray!

[Doc_Glock]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170920/9aa8f9bb7f843b822924323c337d0ca8.jpg

This went up on the Wilson IG. I don't think that is a Brig Tac as I don't see the hump in the slide?

[warpedcamshaft]

Definitely not a Brigadier slide.

That might be it.

I'm interested... I just hope its a bit cheaper than the Brig Tac.

[EricM]

That quote is right off the Brig Tac (https://www.wilsoncombat.com/berettawilson-92g-brigadier-tactical/) page. But yeah the slide is different, so is the rail...also no WC serial number. Just a random Beretta pic with a recycled quote, unrelated to this thread?

[Sal Picante]

That quote is right off the Brig Tac (https://www.wilsoncombat.com/berettawilson-92g-brigadier-tactical/) page. But yeah the slide is different, so is the rail...also no WC serial number. Just a random Beretta pic with a recycled quote, unrelated to this thread?

So... Sometimes the IG marketing folks drink koolaide and moonshine.

That's a 92A1 - they're just talking about Beretta's in general...

[Manbearspider]

That quote is right off the Brig Tac (https://www.wilsoncombat.com/berettawilson-92g-brigadier-tactical/) page. But yeah the slide is different, so is the rail...also no WC serial number. Just a random Beretta pic with a recycled quote, unrelated to this thread?

Since it has the SN on the slide and barrel and is made in italy, I'd wager that's a 92A1, which has a similar frame to the BrigTac (especially with those grips). Wilson's social person might have just made an innocent mistake posting that with the BT quote.

[DAB]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170920/9aa8f9bb7f843b822924323c337d0ca8.jpg

This went up on the Wilson IG. I don't think that is a Brig Tac as I don't see the hump in the slide?

i see the WC logo on the decocker, on the mag release, grips, i see a mag guide. but it looks like an older pic, as the slide says ACCK, MD, not Gallatin, TN as current pistols do. also looks like WC rear sight and dovetailed front. Brig-Tac Lite?

[Cory]

i see the WC logo on the decocker, on the mag release, grips, i see a mag guide. but it looks like an older pic, as the slide says ACCK, MD, not Gallatin, TN as current pistols do. also looks like WC rear sight and dovetailed front. Brig-Tac Lite?

As said before, this is a 92A1 with some WC parts. Nothing new about it at all, and likely just marketing throwing a quote with it.

-Cory

[GJM]

As said before, this is a 92A1 with some WC parts. Nothing new about it at all, and likely just marketing throwing a quote with it.

-Cory

The new gun is NOT a special WC 92A1.

[DAB]

branding is everything: Beretta Bill Blaster!!

[Cory]

The new gun is NOT a special WC 92A1.


Err, didnt mean it to read as if the NEW gun was a 92A1. I meant the picture was.

-Cory

[GJM]

branding is everything: Beretta Bill Blaster!!

the correct term is Bill-retta.

[GJM]

Err, didnt mean it to read as if the NEW gun was a 92A1. I meant the picture was.

-Cory

We are on the same page -- just providing one of my helpful clues. :)

[DAB]

ah ha! all the roll marks will be in Italics!

[GardoneVT]

i see the WC logo on the decocker, on the mag release, grips, i see a mag guide. but it looks like an older pic, as the slide says ACCK, MD, not Gallatin, TN as current pistols do. also looks like WC rear sight and dovetailed front. Brig-Tac Lite?

Nope.

Beretta USA is not located in Italy,for one. It's a stock photo of a modded 92A1.

[JonInWA]

Hey, don't shoot the messenger!!

We don't have anything to shoot you with...YET!

Best, Jon

[GJM]

We don't have anything to shoot you with...YET!

Best, Jon

Another week with any luck.

[JonInWA]

Another week with any luck.

Mrs. George to George: Honey, wanna go double or nothing to 30 pages??

Best, Jon

[DAB]

email from Wilson today, advertising their various Lightweight 1911 offerings. nice pistols. but at 4200+.....that does not fit my current budget. hopefully, this new Beretta/Wilson offering will be closer to something that I can swing.

[AdioSS]

I'm also hoping for a return of the Centurion size, but with a dovetailed Vertec front sight. I'm betting that it will be a G.

There were a few comments on the frame safety Berettas. I'm not an expert, but I have some experience in that area. I have an old original 92 that was made in Brazil, a Billennium, an 84BB, an 84F, a Neos, a Bobcat 21a, & used to have a 76S & a 9000S. All had/have frame safeties. Well, technically, the 84F had a decocker instead of a safety, but I totally removed that from mine because it just sucked. The 9000S safety/decocker also sucked in how it felt & functioned. However, all the other guns that did not include a decocking function & were either on safe or off safe all worked very well. The safety positively clicked & stayed in whatever position you chose to put it. I have carried a few and never felt like it would have been any issue if I was required to use it defensively in a hurry.

Personally, I probably will not buy whatever WC comes out with. Most of my Beretta needs are well covered. I already have a 96G Centurion that is NP3 coated :)

[Matthew]

As long as they reveal the new model before the Vertec slides on BUSA sell out, I'll be happy.

[Robinson]

I'm also hoping for a return of the Centurion size, but with a dovetailed Vertec front sight. I'm betting that it will be a G.


If I were ever to transition to Berettas my ideal set of pistols would be a 92G-SD for a HD gun, a 92G Centurion for carry, and another one of those for a dedicated training/practice gun.

I still have a feeling the new WC offering will be a Centurion of some sort.

[45dotACP]

So nobody's gonna swing for the fences and say a Wilson Combat Beretta Cougar?

Come on...imagine the heads that would explode if THAT became the PF flavor of the month :D

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[MattyD380]

So nobody's gonna swing for the fences and say a Wilson Combat Beretta Cougar?

Come on...imagine the heads that would explode if THAT became the PF flavor of the month :D

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Now you're talking. Sold.

Okay... back to reality...

Rails, dovetailed sights and Centurions and frame-mounted safeties...

[pangloss]

Based on GJM's comments in the Glock MHS thread about how he'd love a G19 slide on a G17 frame, I predict that the new pistol is a Centurion of some sort. I'll guess G model with a Vertec-ish slide.

[Trooper224]

Jetfire with a light rail.

[AdioSS]

So nobody's gonna swing for the fences and say a Wilson Combat Beretta Cougar?

Come on...imagine the heads that would explode if THAT became the PF flavor of the month :D

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I'd love that! My favorite gun to carry is a MiniCougar 8040D that's been converted to TDA :)

[TJG74]

Was viewing vids to check out centurions and came across this. I'm no expert on beretta but I did not think this could be done. I posted a link to the video but basically is M9a1 full size lower with centurion or compact slide.

https://youtu.be/i0g_qS1ZThU


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bucky]

I just got an inside tip that the new Wilson Beretta will be based off of the Beretta 9000 series pistols. :D

[MSparks909]

I just got an inside tip that the new Wilson Beretta will be based off of the Beretta 9000 series pistols. :D

I highly doubt that

[357carbine]

Was viewing vids to check out centurions and came across this. I'm no expert on beretta but I did not think this could be done. I posted a link to the video but basically is M9a1 full size lower with centurion or compact slide.

https://youtu.be/i0g_qS1ZThU


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

May want to check here http://berettaforum.net/vb/showpost.php?p=1078472&postcount=33

[TJG74]

May want to check here http://berettaforum.net/vb/showpost.php?p=1078472&postcount=33

10-4 thank you sir. That's what I thought based on EL's posts in the past. Be a cool model though


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ralph]

I just got an inside tip that the new Wilson Beretta will be based off of the Beretta 9000 series pistols. :D

If Wilson did something like that (which we know they won't) they would quickly become the laughing stock of the firearms community.

[MattyD380]

I just got an inside tip that the new Wilson Beretta will be based off of the Beretta 9000 series pistols. :D

So, on the Beretta forum, I posed the idea that maybe the 9000 was unfairly condemned by the gun intelligentsia for crimes it did not commit.

The consensus there, is that the 9000 is guilty as charged. On all counts: unreliable, shitty trigger, disintegrating grip, stiff safety, terrible ergonomics, form over function, etc.

I don't know. I've never shot one. All I can say, is that it looks cool. And some part of me wants to believe it doesn't suck.

[Cory]

So, on the Beretta forum, I posed the idea that maybe the 9000 was unfairly condemned by the gun intelligentsia for crimes it did not commit.

The consensus there, is that the 9000 is guilty as charged. On all counts: unreliable, shitty trigger, disintegrating grip, stiff safety, terrible ergonomics, form over function, etc.

I don't know. I've never shot one. All I can say, is that it looks cool. And some part of me wants to believe it doesn't suck.

I've found that forum to be like so many other gun forums. Sometimes something good will show up in the BST trade section, but the general user base is not that interested in shooting that much. They are mostly interested who has the most guns, and the bigger genitalia. Beretta Forum does at least have a really great FAQ are and history of Beretta models and facts. With as much info as they have stored on the forum I'm always surprised by the number of users they have who can't tell a 92A1 from an M9A1.

-Cory

[GardoneVT]

So, on the Beretta forum, I posed the idea that maybe the 9000 was unfairly condemned by the gun intelligentsia for crimes it did not commit.

The consensus there, is that the 9000 is guilty as charged. On all counts: unreliable, shitty trigger, disintegrating grip, stiff safety, terrible ergonomics, form over function, etc.

I don't know. I've never shot one. All I can say, is that it looks cool. And some part of me wants to believe it doesn't suck.

I'm sorry. They're right.

The Beretta 9000s is the worst DA/SA pistol I ever owned. And I've owned a PT99.
The safety literally failed right in front of my eyes. Just one of the many serious problems the gun had.

[opmike]

And I've owned a PT99.

But, but, SheepDogInfidel789 on YouTube says the PT-series pistols are product-improved Beretta 92's!

[MattyD380]

With as much info as they have stored on the forum I'm always surprised by the number of users they have who can't tell a 92A1 from an M9A1.

-Cory

Haha.

There's some real knowledgeable folks on there. I don't mind it--but I agree: there's no other forum I've been on that takes on the "craft" handgunnery like PF.

[Bucky]

So, on the Beretta forum, I posed the idea that maybe the 9000 was unfairly condemned by the gun intelligentsia for crimes it did not commit.

The consensus there, is that the 9000 is guilty as charged. On all counts: unreliable, shitty trigger, disintegrating grip, stiff safety, terrible ergonomics, form over function, etc.

I don't know. I've never shot one. All I can say, is that it looks cool. And some part of me wants to believe it doesn't suck.

No, they're right. I'm a big Beretta fan, but the 9000 is junk. My post was supposed to be tongue and cheek, but I think some here might have taken me seriously.

[echo5charlie]

So, on the Beretta forum, I posed the idea that maybe the 9000 was unfairly condemned by the gun intelligentsia for crimes it did not commit.

The consensus there, is that the 9000 is guilty as charged. On all counts: unreliable, shitty trigger, disintegrating grip, stiff safety, terrible ergonomics, form over function, etc.

I don't know. I've never shot one. All I can say, is that it looks cool. And some part of me wants to believe it doesn't suck.


I owned one. Paid $100 for it (was a range rental). It was in .40 S&W. It, without a doubt, is a shitty pistol.

[MattyD380]

Yeah, I'm under no illusions that it doesn't suck. I just kinda wish it didn't.

[MattyD380]

I knew what you meant. Gave me a chuckle. I just thought it would make for an interesting discussion.

[AdioSS]

I wanted to like the 9000S also. I mean, a small DA/SA that can also be carried cocked & locked and can also use the same mags as the 92/96? Sounds like a great thing! I liked the idea of the rubberized grip, too. But it just didn't work like I wanted it to. The way I hold a gun wasn't how that gun wanted to be held. The hammer bit my hand bad. I sold mine for about what I paid.

[MattyD380]

I wanted to like the 9000S also. I mean, a small DA/SA that can also be carried cocked & locked and can also use the same mags as the 92/96? Sounds like a great thing! I liked the idea of the rubberized grip, too. But it just didn't work like I wanted it to. The way I hold a gun wasn't how that gun wanted to be held. The hammer bit my hand bad. I sold mine for about what I paid.

Yeah, I agree. It makes a lot of sense on paper. It sucks that the execution didn't live up to the idea.

[GardoneVT]

I wanted to like the 9000S also. I mean, a small DA/SA that can also be carried cocked & locked and can also use the same mags as the 92/96? Sounds like a great thing! I liked the idea of the rubberized grip, too. But it just didn't work like I wanted it to. The way I hold a gun wasn't how that gun wanted to be held. The hammer bit my hand bad. I sold mine for about what I paid.

The "cocked and locked" part was subject to change without notice on the 9000s. I got to witness my example turn it's own safety off ,before the P320 made safety failures cool.

[LockedBreech]

No, they're right. I'm a big Beretta fan, but the 9000 is junk. My post was supposed to be tongue and cheek, but I think some here might have taken me seriously.

As a deep Beretta fanboy, I've considered getting the 9000 and the Nano under the logic that I should have to suffer the bad to enjoy the good.

Common sense won out in the end. Even good companies make crap sometimes.

[GJM]

Back to the 92 series, this is mine from the last WC Beretta release. Trigger, with a WC trigger bar is amazing. Hoping late next week is when the newest release surfaces.

20312

[StraitR]

@GardoneVT (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=8412) So, I said this...


Well that dashes my hopes and dreams, as a SAO Centurion is not the configuration I envision GJM "always wishing Beretta built". :p

You quoted me and said this...


Honestly, a SAO Beretta is a mixed bag ergonomically. AGW (Allegheny Gun Works) did work years ago on converting DAO 92a to SA using factory parts and I looked into a gun configured as such .After researching the ergos I scrapped the project: the Beretta SA safety is a big honking lever right where my support hand parks. It's not like the PT92 where it's a stubby little lever.

So. Beware what you wish for on that score.


And now you're taking a "stab in the dark" with this, a Wilson SAO bomb dot com???... ROFL. :cool:


Here's my stab in the dark. Because a Wilson Combat SAO Beretta Combat + 3 twenty round mags would be the bomb dot com.

[Bucky]

As a deep Beretta fanboy, I've considered getting the 9000 and the Nano under the logic that I should have to suffer the bad to enjoy the good.

Common sense won out in the end. Even good companies make crap sometimes.

My wife has a Nano, and we haven't had any issues with it.

[LockedBreech]

My wife has a Nano, and we haven't had any issues with it.

It's like dating a redhead man.

It's not if.

It's WHEN.

[luckyman]

It's like dating a redhead man....

.

Phrasing? Unless you roll that way, which is totally cool as far as I'm concerned...

[LockedBreech]

Phrasing? Unless you roll that way, which is totally cool as far as I'm concerned...

My kingdom for a comma.

[Bucky]

It's like dating a redhead man.


Punctuation is your friend. ;)


Phrasing? Unless you roll that way, which is totally cool as far as I'm concerned...

LOL.

[GardoneVT]

@GardoneVT (https://pistol-forum.com/member.php?u=8412) So, I said this...



You quoted me and said this...




And now you're taking a "stab in the dark" with this, a Wilson SAO bomb dot com???... ROFL. :cool:

Glad you're rolling on the floor.

The rest of us will be enjoying the specific benefits of WCs latest Beretta. Feel free to join us once you've grown the fuck up.

[MSparks909]

Glad you're rolling on the floor.

The rest of us will be enjoying the specific benefits of WCs latest Beretta. Feel free to join us once you've grown the fuck up.

Who pissed in your cheerios?

[StraitR]

Glad you're rolling on the floor.

The rest of us will be enjoying the specific benefits of WCs latest Beretta. Feel free to join us once you've grown the fuck up.

Lighten up. You eagerly dismissed my desire for a SAO model much earlier in the thread, telling me to be cautious of what I wish for. But, when it was your guess, it was then somehow amazing. I guess you can't see the irony, nor the humor in that.

[TheNewbie]

It’s going to be one of those days. What day is the world supposed to end? Hopefully it’s soon.

Hopefully not before I enjoy my Mexican food this evening.

While I will likely never by a Wilson Beretta, I'm excited to see companies putting out new products. It keeps things fresh and interesting, especially when it's from a serious company like Wilson.

[StraitR]

Ugh. I meant "what time today" not what day.

Anyway, it's not a SAO so roflcoptering about who wished for it first or thought it was a bad idea but then thought is was a good idea, might be entertaining but is probably about as useful and thinking a SAO is a bad idea then when it was someone else's idea but a great idea when it was yours and then getting upset when someone points that out.

The whole point of that terribly constructed sentence (that I'm not even going to reread because it hurts my brain) is, everybody lighten up. Also, it's not going to be a SAO (or DAO) gun.


We're all settled down, and weeping. Happy now, dream crusher?

[JPedersen]

Me and the 3 other people in the world wishing for DAO, are weeping also.

Make that 4 other people! [emoji12]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LockedBreech]

My next guess is that it's just a Smith & Wesson 642 and they just took a Sharpie and wrote Beretta and Wilson over Smith and Wesson. Since my guess was wrong anyway I'm gonna have fun with it now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thy.Will.Be.Done]

Beretta Storm PX4

[MattyD380]

I'm excited to see what it is, no doubt. Will I get one? I don't know. I kinda just wish they'd re-release the 92G Compact Carry. But even if they did... my compact 92s shoot awesome, as is.

If it's a Centurion... maybe. I just don't see myself carrying it over a 92 compact, though.

On that note, I'll take this opportunity to send this thread into another death spiral of tangent-ness:

Type-M Compact. Boom. I couldn't say no.

[BJV]

My next guess is that it's just a Smith & Wesson 642 and they just took a Sharpie and wrote Beretta and Wilson over Smith and Wesson.

Sold.

[OlongJohnson]

On that note, I'll take this opportunity to send this thread into another death spiral of tangent-ness:

Type-M Compact. Boom. I couldn't say no.

That was covered in one of the other Beretta love threads a few weeks ago. Verdict is the grips are essentially exactly the same thickness as a double stack, with half the ammo on board. Some excellent quotes from ToddG on it in that thread.

[MattyD380]

That was covered in one of the other Beretta love threads a few weeks ago. Verdict is the grips are essentially exactly the same thickness as a double stack, with half the ammo on board. Some excellent quotes from ToddG on it in that thread.

I remember seeing something about it recently. I think it was when the surplus Type M SBs were for sale (Summit gunbroker?).

Most agreed that it was not a big difference. But just a small difference can have a noticeable affect on the feel of a pistol (e.g., thinner grip panels; scalloped backstrap on the latest 92s) So... even it's not much on paper... I'd be willing to give it a shot. Not that a double stack 92 feels bad, by any means... but maybe a type m would feel even better.

But, I wouldn't worry. I think the chances of it being a type-m are about as likely as it being an M1951.

[Bucky]

That was covered in one of the other Beretta love threads a few weeks ago. Verdict is the grips are essentially exactly the same thickness as a double stack, with half the ammo on board. Some excellent quotes from ToddG on it in that thread.

I had a compact and an "M" at the same time. Couldn't feel any difference. Even the calipers showed only a difference in thousandths of an inch (I wish I kept those numbers). Yet some owners still claim it's so much thinner, or feels so much better in the hand. Glad to read some reality, not based on nostalgia over the coveted single stack 92.

Only thing nice about the M is, I did flip it for a profit.

[MattyD380]

Are you saying the actual alloy grip frame isn't any thinner? Or does the measurement include the panels? (I looked for the thread in question; couldn't find it). I've heard the thick panels Beretta used on the Type-M are what negated the thin-ness of the frame:


You know, having actually owned a Type M previously for more than a few years (It was part of my P225/P7 PSP/P5 single stack combat pistols of the late 20th century compendium), I'll pass. With the ridiculously thick OEM grips, the potential compact format size advantage is significantly negated.

But I dunno--maybe the frame actually isn't any thinner. In which case... I agree. That's silly (unless you live in Cali). But if we're just talking about unnecessarily thick grip panels... seems like an easy fix if VZ/Wilson put a little thought into it.

[GyroF-16]

For what it's worth, the Type-M grip frame is measurably thinner than the standard frame. I just searched another forum where I thought I'd posted a photo with a micrometer taking comparative measurements, but couldn't find it...
Suffice it to say that the frame is thinner, and with the thin rubber grip panels (from Farrar, for example), there is a noticeable difference in thickness in the hand. It makes a significant difference for my wife's small hands, and even more so with a short-reach trigger.

[Stony Lane]

Quick measurement: (plastic factory grips)

Regular Compact - 1.375 wide just above the bottom grip screw. 1.385 just below the top grip screw.
Compact Type M - 1.275 wide just above the bottom grip screw. 1.270 just below the top grip screw.

[MattyD380]

Quick measurement: (plastic factory grips)

Regular Compact - 1.375 wide just above the bottom grip screw. 1.385 just below the top grip screw.
Compact Type M - 1.275 wide just above the bottom grip screw. 1.270 just below the top grip screw.

Cool. Thanks a lot. Are the Type-M grips thicker than the regular compact grips? Like, is that what's overcompensating for the narrower frame?

If the grips are the same, and that's the only difference... I too have a hard time believing it's going to make enough of a difference in feel (or concealability) to justify losing 5 rounds. In which case, I will officially retract my interest in the Type-M.

Mostly... :)

[BigT]

Me and the 3 other people in the world wishing for DAO, are weeping also.


That will will teach the four of you to stop wanting things that are just wrong :)

[Joe in PNG]

There's just something about a 92D Centurion that makes DAO just so right.

[AdioSS]

I’m doubting that it would be a Type M, but I imagine that if they did ever go that route then VZ/WC would come out with some G10 grips that take advantage of the thinner frame.

Beretta has a history of putting thick grips on their single stack guns that make them feel like double stacks.


Ooohhhh, for some reason this makes me wonder if the next WC Beretta could be based on one of the 81 Series guns? Just imagine a Modernized WC 84 or 85!

[Bucky]

I’m doubting that it would be a Type M, but I imagine that if they did ever go that route then VZ/WC would come out with some G10 grips that take advantage of the thinner frame.

Beretta has a history of putting thick grips on their single stack guns that make them feel like double stacks.


Ooohhhh, for some reason this makes me wonder if the next WC Beretta could be based on one of the 81 Series guns? Just imagine a Modernized WC 84 or 85!

I got rid of my Type M long time ago, but if I recall correctly, there is a limit to how thin you can make the right side grip panel due to the external trigger bar. Beretta probably just wanted to keep it uniform, but there is no reason the left panel couldn't be much thinner.

[MattyD380]

I got rid of my Type M long time ago, but if I recall correctly, there is a limit to how thin you can make the right side grip panel due to the external trigger bar. Beretta probably just wanted to keep it uniform, but there is no reason the left panel couldn't be much thinner.

Interesting.

[JonInWA]

I had a 92FS Compact L Type M for a couple of years, with OEM Trijicon sights. It was a beautifully made gun, but, at the end of the day, a gun desperately searching for a niche. It simply wasn't essentially thinner (I suspect that my current 92D with ultra thin Trausch grips is actually substantially thinner...), the DA/SA triggerpull was nice, but a bit heavy, so there was a more pronounced DA/SA transition, and the gun had fairly sharp tang points on the backstrap which really could jab into your side. At the time, I concurrently has a Walther P5, P5C, HK P7 PSP, and a SIG-Sauer P225; although I had an excellent Kramer horsehide IWB for the Beretta, it simply never got carried or used all that much. When DoD was looking for a compact pistol subsequent to the XM9/XM10 trials, the SIG-Sauer P228 was adopted with pretty much no murmurs of dissatisfaction or discontent, despite the platform commonality the Compact L or Compact L Type M offered with the M9/M9A1.

Today, Type M's are pretty scarce, and spare magazines for them even more so. Its not that they're "bad" guns, but hard to justify objectively against what's currently available in the compact semi-auto niche. For example, a Glock 19 is lighter, more weather impervious, carries significantly more rounds, is more comfortable to carry, and is less expensive, and has fewer components....unless you're a die-hard Beretta 92 aficionado, that's kinda tough to beat...

Best, Jon

[GJM]

They needed a type M to compete with the P225. :)

[JonInWA]

Deleted for #*!! double-post

[JonInWA]

They needed a type M to compete with the P225. :)

Yep. And, as I and others found out, while ultimately the Beretta would have been a more reliable gun (it took awhile for the P225's critical magazine issue to surface, not corrected until the release of the subsequent/current P225A1, using revamped P239 magazines as I understand...), it was pretty much steamrollered over by the competition in the 1990s (and in a paradigm shift, it arguably ultimately wasn't so much the P225 it was competing against as it is was the P228 and Glock 19...).

Best, Jon

[OlongJohnson]

Just thought I'd be the first to bring up 3913 and variants here.

[MSparks909]

More hints por favor! Is it October yet?

[GJM]

More hints por favor! Is it October yet?

I called Bill-retta this morning, but he was busy on the range filming and couldn't talk. Hopefully filming this.

[Jared]

I pretty much figure it's some form of Centurion variant, probably a G model with some goodies added to it. Not a bad idea, but not something to really get me all lathered up either.

Look, I love the 92, I really do. But I'm not going to lie about this. I've got a lot of the "better" models. G-SD, Vertec, M9A1, 92A1, compacts with and without rail, etc. I've swapped top ends to make different configurations and all sorts of stuff. Since this thread started and I also came across a used Brig Tac in a LGS, I went back through my notes from the past several years. Every single "best" I have: whether PR, best cold rum, or best average on every drill I shoot on the regular, is owned by an Italian made 92FS that I put a D spring in and a big mag release, blacked the rear dots, and painted the front dot. Recently I swapped the D spring for a Wilson 14# and put a battlesight on it, and the Beretta G kit. It's a dead ringer for the Langdon M9 now that I have the Langdon grips on it. Still, with all the variants I've added, that 92FS is the one I shoot the best and it's the one I reach for when I want good things to happen.

I'm not trying to poo poo on anyone else's party. I'm really really not. I'm just saying that even with the most desirable variants of the 92, the gun don't shoot itself for you, and the sky doesn't open up an angels sing when you shoot one. In spite of that, I wish Wilson and Beretta all the luck in the world with the new model.

[GJM]

I pretty much figure it's some form of Centurion variant, probably a G model with some goodies added to it. Not a bad idea, but not something to really get me all lathered up either.

Look, I love the 92, I really do. But I'm not going to lie about this. I've got a lot of the "better" models. G-SD, Vertec, M9A1, 92A1, compacts with and without rail, etc. I've swapped top ends to make different configurations and all sorts of stuff. Since this thread started and I also came across a used Brig Tac in a LGS, I went back through my notes from the past several years. Every single "best" I have: whether PR, best cold rum, or best average on every drill I shoot on the regular, is owned by an Italian made 92FS that I put a D spring in and a big mag release, blacked the rear dots, and painted the front dot. Recently I swapped the D spring for a Wilson 14# and put a battlesight on it, and the Beretta G kit. It's a dead ringer for the Langdon M9 now that I have the Langdon grips on it. Still, with all the variants I've added, that 92FS is the one I shoot the best and it's the one I reach for when I want good things to happen.

I'm not trying to poo poo on anyone else's party. I'm really really not. I'm just saying that even with the most desirable variants of the 92, the gun don't shoot itself for you, and the sky doesn't open up an angels sing when you shoot one. In spite of that, I wish Wilson and Beretta all the luck in the world with the new model.

What front sight does your 92FS have on it? Have you ever wanted to change your front sight style? Have you shot various slide length 92 pistols to benchmark transition speed? Do you carry your 92 AIWB? Do you tie your shoes before or after you put on your holster? Do you like high viz tritium sights? Would you like to have one 92 that carries as well as it performs on the range? :)

[GardoneVT]

I pretty much figure it's some form of Centurion variant, probably a G model with some goodies added to it. Not a bad idea, but not something to really get me all lathered up either.

Look, I love the 92, I really do. But I'm not going to lie about this. I've got a lot of the "better" models. G-SD, Vertec, M9A1, 92A1, compacts with and without rail, etc. I've swapped top ends to make different configurations and all sorts of stuff. Since this thread started and I also came across a used Brig Tac in a LGS, I went back through my notes from the past several years. Every single "best" I have: whether PR, best cold rum, or best average on every drill I shoot on the regular, is owned by an Italian made 92FS that I put a D spring in and a big mag release, blacked the rear dots, and painted the front dot. Recently I swapped the D spring for a Wilson 14# and put a battlesight on it, and the Beretta G kit. It's a dead ringer for the Langdon M9 now that I have the Langdon grips on it. Still, with all the variants I've added, that 92FS is the one I shoot the best and it's the one I reach for when I want good things to happen.

I'm not trying to poo poo on anyone else's party. I'm really really not. I'm just saying that even with the most desirable variants of the 92, the gun don't shoot itself for you, and the sky doesn't open up an angels sing when you shoot one. In spite of that, I wish Wilson and Beretta all the luck in the world with the new model.
Have you ever shot a Wilson Combat Beretta,whether Brig Tac or modified?

[JonInWA]

We're taking George off coffee for the day, guys. You may place your tray tables in the upright position and resume walking around the aisles.

Best, Jon

[DAB]

likewise, i have an old 92F that i've dropped a D spring in and i just got a new Brig Tac this summer. i don't see a point in getting one that is between those two, but if they come out with one that is somehow better than the Brig Tac, then i might be interested.