Shotgun Slug Precision

[warpedcamshaft]

I'm pretty new to firing shotgun slugs. I've always been more of a rifle guy.

What are reasonable precision expectations/standards for slugs out of a smooth-bore shotgun with:

Brenneke slugs?
Foster style slugs?
Federal TruBall Deep Penetrator slugs?

At what distances do they no longer provide acceptable precision?

Thanks.

[That Guy]

What's your definition of acceptable precision? :)

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[David S.]

We found in Darryl Bolke's class that it varies widely with what sights you have on the gun. I would be hard pressed to make reliable defensive shots with my bead sighted 870 beyond 15 yards. A red dot made 25+ yards very accessible to everyone in the class who tried it.

[warpedcamshaft]

What's your definition of acceptable precision? :)

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Reliable hits in the -0 Zone of an IDPA target or A zone of an IPSC.


The few loads I've tested so far... 50 yards was easy with ghost rings sights. Pushing the distance past that didn't go well for me.

[GJM]

We found in Darryl Bolke's class that it varies widely with what sights you have on the gun. I would be hard pressed to make reliable defensive shots with my bead sighted 870 beyond 15 yards. A red dot made 25+ yards very accessible to everyone in the class who tried it.

This right here. Shotgun sighting systems, not slug accuracy, is often the limiting factor. An Aimpoint micro changes that.


Reliable hits in the -0 Zone of an IDPA target or A zone of an IPSC.


The few loads I've tested so far... 50 yards was easy with ghost rings sights. Pushing the distance past that didn't go well for me.

Ghost rings don't produce optimal groups for many people.

[warpedcamshaft]

Good info GJM, I know you shoot a lot of slugs. What do you expect from a Red Dot equipped smoothbore shotgun precision/distance wise?

I have a spare Aimpoint laying around I could throw on.

[psalms144.1]

Back when I was assigned a desk on the JTTF, I was able to do well with standard slugs and a 14" entry barrel with a bead sight at 50 yards, shooting the FBI's shotgun qual. That's roughly in the -0 A Zone. Now, that's on the flat range, with minimal pressure (except for not wanting to look like a tool in front of my squad mates and some minimal time pressure). I can still do the same with our issued full power slugs with our 500s (bead sighted) at 25 yards during our quals, but I'd hate to do it on the run, in an awkward/compromised position, on a moving target, etc...

[Mitch]

Back when I was assigned a desk on the JTTF, I was able to do well with standard slugs and a 14" entry barrel with a bead sight at 50 yards, shooting the FBI's shotgun qual. That's roughly in the -0 A Zone. Now, that's on the flat range, with minimal pressure (except for not wanting to look like a tool in front of my squad mates and some minimal time pressure). I can still do the same with our issued full power slugs with our 500s (bead sighted) at 25 yards during our quals, but I'd hate to do it on the run, in an awkward/compromised position, on a moving target, etc...

Apologies to OP for the thread drift, but how do the 500s work for you? I'm thinking about a 590a1 or a 500, and the main driver for the 590 is the tube magazine set up and how much easier it is to change springs and followers on the 590. I can't decide if that's worth ~$150 to me yet or not.


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[Trooper224]

With rifle type sights center mass hits at 100 yards are quite achievable and used to be part of our qualification process with the shotgun, with ghost ring sights (which I hate on a shotgun) maybe 50 yards. With the traditional brass bead front sight? maybe ten yards. This is all with Federal slug loads that have been our standard issue for as long as I can remember.

[GJM]

Good info GJM, I know you shoot a lot of slugs. What do you expect from a Red Dot equipped smoothbore shotgun precision/distance wise?

I have a spare Aimpoint laying around I could throw on.

A long time ago, I ditched ghost ring sights, as they did not work well at distance for me. I preferred an aperture rear, with a tighter insert than a ghost ring for precision, and open rifle style sights for all around. The Aimpoint micro changed all that, and besides cost, there is no good reason now not to go red dot on a shotgun you expect to accurately fire slugs.

I zero at 25, am a little high at 50, with a second intersection at 75 yards. In times past with aperture sights, at 50 yards with Brenneke Classic Magnum slugs, I have shot three shot cloverleaf groups at 50 yards in a class setting. These days, I don't do much group shooting with slugs beyond 25 yard zeroing, as a concession to having torn a retina a few years back, but I routinely see and expect cloverleafs at 25 yards with Brennekes, using a micro. With just a front FO bead, at 25 yards I am happy with a six inch group -- so sights matter.

[DocGKR]

For me, Micro-Aimpoint allows A zone hits out to about 100yds with 1 oz Brenneke slugs...

[psalms144.1]

Apologies to OP for the thread drift, but how do the 500s work for you? I'm thinking about a 590a1 or a 500, and the main driver for the 590 is the tube magazine set up and how much easier it is to change springs and followers on the 590. I can't decide if that's worth ~$150 to me yet or not.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'm not much of a fan. They're rough, but they're the "military" grade that DOD buys in bulk. Finish rusts pretty easily, action is VERY rough, compared to a decent 870 (I still remember what those feel like!). I don't have any experience with the 590A1, so I can't comment, but I think you'd be better spending a little more if you're looking for something a little more refined.

Frankly, if barrel changes weren't an issue, the only pump shotgun I'd own nowadays would be the Benelli Nova/Supernova - but that's just me...

[psalms144.1]

-- so sights matter.Agreed. I'm MUCH more accurate with my rifle-sighted M2 than anything with a bead. If I can find someone I trust to mount a piece of rail on the reciever of my M2, I'll be mounting a T1 or M4 - in the meantime, I just "dance with the girl that brung me."

[GJM]

Agreed. I'm MUCH more accurate with my rifle-sighted M2 than anything with a bead. If I can find someone I trust to mount a piece of rail on the reciever of my M2, I'll be mounting a T1 or M4 - in the meantime, I just "dance with the girl that brung me."

Look at the Scalarworks mount for the Micro, and H2/T2 for beefier connections for heavy shotgun loads.

[NH Shooter]

I very much like the fiber optic bead on the vent rib of my 1187 Premier, more so than the rifle sights on my 1187P. I can usually hit an 8" plate at 40 - 50 yards from a standing position with Federal LE127RS.

[warpedcamshaft]

This is a 2 round slug drill I did from low ready offhand at 50 yards with Federal Premium Vital-Shok PB127RS and a 20 inch Mossberg 500 equipped with factory ghost ring sights.

I didn't measure the group, but it looks pretty good to me. I was able to replicate the 2 round drill at 50 yards multiple times with no slugs impacting outside the A-Zone.

My thought process at this point is that GJM might be on to something with ghost rings sights lacking precision at distance, because my groups expand drastically at 75 and 100 yards.

19889

[Unobtanium]

I'm pretty new to firing shotgun slugs. I've always been more of a rifle guy.

What are reasonable precision expectations/standards for slugs out of a smooth-bore shotgun with:

Brenneke slugs?
Foster style slugs?
Federal TruBall Deep Penetrator slugs?

At what distances do they no longer provide acceptable precision?

Thanks.

This is the result of zeroing my Benelli Super Nova Tactical, today. This one shot pretty well, but 3" CTC is my cut-off at 50 yards for "acceptable" with a shotgun using Remington Sluggers and/or Brenneke Classic Magnums. I have not yet had one that was that inaccurate yet, so it's just an arbitrary personal standard for me. I use 3 shot groups with a 12ga, although many, I am sure, will be up in arms over not using 5 or 10 shot groups.

With EVERY weapon I own, I always also use a single cold-bore shot to gauge things. Off the square range, you don't get "best out of 3" or "but the average was...". You get ONE SHOT. Period. No do-overs.

Here is a 50 yard 3 shot group, and a 75 yard single cold-bore shot (last shot before leaving the range and zeroing, after letting the weapon fully cool to ambient to check for any POI shifts.). Remington lists drop at 75 yards with a 50 yard zero as 1.4". CBS says this weapon is zeroed. (I adjusted the sights 1 more click right after the 3 shot group was fired).

OEM Ghost rings were used. I fired from the seated, resting my forearm which held the slide, on a sand-bag, holding the weapon without it touching anything environmental. The only modification to the Benelli SNT was the swapping of the OEM recoil pad for a Limbsaver.

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21752847_935690108961_3880723088400791017_o.jpg?oh =d7ad6994d3726f18b7498beea28e90fd&oe=5A4B8F1A
https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21731588_935693028111_689897162755719101_o.jpg?oh= bfa39aab22021069cdd7c255d81dc7c8&oe=5A15230D

Shotgun function was 100%, although when ejecting shells, I was trying not to sling them (public range didn't want to chase them under benches, etc), so I would rack it reeeeeaalllly slowly, Don't do that, lol, they flip right back into the receiver sometimes. When I pumped the action with even remotely appropriate vigor, it would launch them flying.

[GJM]

Perfect illustration of the difference between a 50 yard and 25/75 yard zero.

[Unobtanium]

Perfect illustration of the difference between a 50 yard and 25/75 yard zero.

At 25 yards, elevation was only 1" or so off. I prefer a 50 yard zero, as it puts me +- 1.5" out to 75 yards, and about 5" low at 100 (if the ballistic tables are accurate, which based on my shooting...they are). Honestly, being 1.5" off with a 3/4" projectile falls under "trivial" in my book. It's not a sniper rifle...although mine seems to shoot a bit better than 1 MOA out to 50 yards with irons, ROFL!

[GJM]

A zero is just a matter of personal preference. I zero handgun, shotgun and PCC at 25 yards, so it keeps things simple for me. I am also more interested in a muzzle to 25 yard envelope for my use of slugs, since I don't hunt with slugs.

[Unobtanium]

A zero is just a matter of personal preference. I zero handgun, shotgun and PCC at 25 yards, so it keeps things simple for me. I am also more interested in a muzzle to 25 yard envelope for my use of slugs, since I don't hunt with slugs.

Roger that. The area I am hunting, 75 yards is about the very max due to terrain and trees.

[warpedcamshaft]

Got out today with some bigger targets and a few different slugs. I think I was losing shots off the paper last session because the shots were pretty far left and I'm pretty new to slugs:


50 yds, offhand standing, Federal PB127 RS
5 shot - 2.75 inch group size:
19928

100 yds, offhand standing, Federal PB127 RS
3 shot - 4.5 inch group size:
19929

Both shot with Mossberg 500 20 inch and factory ghost ring sights.

[warpedcamshaft]

My apologies:

The above post was shot with F127RS, and not with PB127RS. (Federal Rifled Slug... Not Federal Premium TruBall Slug)

My mistake. Too many shot-shell SKU's running through my brain lately.

[Unobtanium]

I really hate how almost all foster slugs are HP design, now. I refuse to use them. Much prefer Remington Sluggers terminally. They penetrate more then Brenneke's in my water-jug tests, and I've spoken with plenty of people who through/through black bear with em. HP slugs come apart in my water jug tests, and many deer hunters report the same :/

[Unobtanium]

Just an update, but shot 2 deer with federal DP slugs. I will never use them again. Absolute terrible. My 5.56 did a lot more damage, dropped deer better, etc. I am revisiting radically deforming slugs like the Hydrashok, etc. I want to put energy into the target vs. just just poking a hole. Even. 0.73" hole. Saw first hand how ineffective if is compared to better options. Deer aren't Buicks. Neither are people.

[willie]

You may have an unrealistically high expectation of slug performance. Slug performance is limited by velocity and range. Historically hunters have used them for at least three reasons: a requirement since rifles may not have been permitted by law or club regulation; a desire to extend the range and effectiveness of the shotgun; and because they were available.

Some(can't think of reference)have said that slug accuracy from shotgun barrels decreases as the thin barrel heats up and expands from repeated firing as might be done when accuracy testing. One source recommended placing a thin rubber 0 ring under the magazine cap and cranking it down on the 0 ring to make the fit of barrel to receiver "stronger". If you attempt this, I urge you not to use a wrench.

I congratulate you on the extent of research conducted with shotgun slug shooting. Your experience exceeds mine. I've written all that I know so I'll cease unless I discover additional information. One of my intended projects is casting shotgun slugs and developing accurate loads. I will use 20 gauge shotguns on heavier 12 gauge frames. Reason is arthritis. My research will satisfy my curiosity and may serve no other purpose. The only other suggestion that I can make for slug shooting is use a rifled barrel for increased accuracy. I will if I can locate ones to fit my older shotguns.

[Matt O]

Just an update, but shot 2 deer with federal DP slugs. I will never use them again. Absolute terrible. My 5.56 did a lot more damage, dropped deer better, etc. I am revisiting radically deforming slugs like the Hydrashok, etc. I want to put energy into the target vs. just just poking a hole. Even. 0.73" hole. Saw first hand how ineffective if is compared to better options. Deer aren't Buicks. Neither are people.

Out of curiosity, where you doing neck shots, shoulder/lung shots, etc? I know that 45-70 hard cast is often seen as a good hunting load and that just pretty much pokes a straight clean hole through the deer (and isn't even .73 caliber). Was this an issue of the slug not anchoring the deer like a .308 or 30'06 might? How far were they running? Again just curious in case I ever decide to bring my 1301 on a deer hunt sometime.

[Unobtanium]

Out of curiosity, where you doing neck shots, shoulder/lung shots, etc? I know that 45-70 hard cast is often seen as a good hunting load and that just pretty much pokes a straight clean hole through the deer (and isn't even .73 caliber). Was this an issue of the slug not anchoring the deer like a .308 or 30'06 might? How far were they running? Again just curious in case I ever decide to bring my 1301 on a deer hunt sometime.

They were both heart/lung shots. The first one hit a little farther back than I'd like, but still hit the heart and lungs. It barely nipped a touch of gut. I was shooting directly into the sun in the early morning, and the deer was slowly walking, so I forgive myself. He ran a good ways. I did not pace it off, but I'd estimate it at about 100ish yards, in sortof an "L" shape, first taking off down the spine of the mountain, and then hard right down the side, where he piled up mid-way toward the bottom.

The second deer went a minimum of several hundred yards. We never found him, literally looked 8 hours, and we saw no buzzards the next day, or the next. He left blood at the scene, and like I said, he dropped like hit by lightning, literally all 4 feet in the air. I am new to hunting and have HEARD that deer can run off after seeming dead, but...well, now I have seen it.

[Matt O]

Hmm, very interesting. Not what I would have expected, but good to know.

[Unobtanium]

Hmm, very interesting. Not what I would have expected, but good to know.

Keep in mind, my first deer was recovered, the second was not. Who knows where I ACTUALLY hit him, all I know that is unless he was mixed with fainting goat, I hit him hard enough for his feet to go up in the air and him on his back staring at the sky, before he made his baller escape. He kindof dragged himself in a half circle, then shakily dragged himself upright, and all the time I was thinking "He's done. Just got some pressure back because he was supine, you took out the pump-house...." but then he got UP and trotted away from me, head in line with body and all I had was a TX heart-shot, which I SHOULD have taken but didn't because hte whole time I expected him to collapse any moment, until he didn't and was gone, and t hen I expected to find him just around a tree, and...

Like I said, I am far and away not an expert hunter, as is obvious, but damn, when you hit a wild animal hard enough it goes belly up...kindof expect it to stay that way, or so I thought.

However...we dunno WHERE I hit it. My best guess is that I hit too high, and it passed under the spine, but over the lungs, and it stunned him for a minute. That would account for his drop, and just punching muscle obviously wouldn't kill him. That is my best failure analysis, and I do NOT blame the slug for this incident necessarily, but my first deer? I was "wtf" about how far he went, and when we gutted him, well, I was very non-plussed about the lack of trauma to organs.

That said, I nipped a bit of gut, and it blew acorn mush literally through the entire rib area on both sides of him. It's like it was "stuck under the layers of meat". I do not know how this is possible. I had to flay off a few layers to clean him up on both sides. Maybe it had a ridiculous TSC, but that did NOT contribute to injury to the organs I saw.

[Hambo]

He kindof dragged himself in a half circle, then shakily dragged himself upright, and all the time I was thinking "He's done. Just got some pressure back because he was supine, you took out the pump-house...."

That's when you should have shot him again.

[Unobtanium]

That's when you should have shot him again.

Knowing what I know now, 100% agree. I thought he was done, though. Live and learn, he was the 3rd deer I've shot.

[jlw]

ALERT. Rambling post ahead. Read with caution, or just skip it.

My shotgun options are:

Remington 870P with Trijicon rifle sights
Remington 870P with MMC ghost rings
Remington 870 Tactical with XS ghost rings
Mossberg 590A1 with Mossy's ghost rings
Benelli M1 Super 90 with Benelli ghost rings

_____________________________________________

Of the above, the best performer with slugs is the 590A1. It loves the Federal Tactical slugs and will cloverleaf at 50 yards if I do my job. I've always been an 870 guy, but this particular 590A1 is winning me over.

The 870P with MMCs is acceptable with the Federal slugs. This gun previously was a bead/pedestal gun, and it threw good buckshot patters but slugs at 50 yards required KY windage. I got the MMCs for a good price, and while they give me acceptable performance, I am not wild about them and still consider this a buckshot gun and not a slug gun.

The Trijicon sighted 870P gives acceptable performance with the Federal slugs and throws good patterns. I prefer the sight picture that I get with the open rifle sights to the ghost rings, and I am much faster with it.

The M1 is acceptable with slugs, but front sight is too wide to truly be precise.

Finally, the 870 with the XS sights... sucks. This is an issued gun that we bought when I was going to the FBI firearms instructor class. At the time, the only only one of the above shotguns that I had was the 870P that then only had the bead sight. The FBI course calls for slug shots at 50 yards. I went to the local cop shop, and the only shotgun they had in stock with adjustable sights was this 870. I managed to get it somewhat sighted in with Fiochi slugs as they were the only thing available locally as this was during one of the ammo shortages. I passed the class. Later, I stocked up on Federal slugs and found that there was not enough adjustment in the sights to sight it in with them. Everything hits high.

I called XS and was told that this was common. They told me to bottom out the rear sight and then take it up 1.5 turns and shoot a group at 25 yards, measure the distance between POA/POI and call them back, and they would send me a different height front sight. I did this yesterday with some Brenneke. It groups 4" high at 25 yards. Another 870 with these sights grouped similarly.

The other issue with these sights is that the aperture is small and the front sight is huge. The sight picture just... sucks to me. I like the V-rear with the XS bead for fast work, but this ghost ring setup sucks.

I have a milsurp RMR; so, I put it on along with a Magpul check riser and sighted in at 50 yards. The dot is too big (6.5 MOA) for truly precise work, but I'm now shooting with good enough groups that I feel comfortable with it. It's stoked with Brenneke slugs and is in the truck for the exclusive purpose of putting a slug in an engine block if needed.

__________________________________________________ _____

Opinion time:

For my purposes, Flite Control buckshot has practically eliminated slugs from my shotgun usage. I sighted mine in with the Federal slugs previously, but I'm not even putting any slugs in my side saddle, and I'm not even bothering to sight them in with the Brennekes that I bought for the Office.

If I truly needed precision with slugs, I'd go with a red dot that I could dial in properly. As it is, the 2-3" groups that i am getting with my available sighting systems are good enough for me.

[TCinVA]

but my first deer? I was "wtf" about how far he went, and when we gutted him, well, I was very non-plussed about the lack of trauma to organs.


On medium sized game like deer the good old fashioned soft lead Foster slug's shortcomings (tendency to pancake and/or fragment) become a plus.

[Unobtanium]

On medium sized game like deer the good old fashioned soft lead Foster slug's shortcomings (tendency to pancake and/or fragment) become a plus.

That is my conclusion.

[03RN]

They were both heart/lung shots. The first one hit a little farther back than I'd like, but still hit the heart and lungs. It barely nipped a touch of gut. I was shooting directly into the sun in the early morning, and the deer was slowly walking, so I forgive myself. He ran a good ways. I did not pace it off, but I'd estimate it at about 100ish yards, in sortof an "L" shape, first taking off down the spine of the mountain, and then hard right down the side, where he piled up mid-way toward the bottom.

The second deer went a minimum of several hundred yards. We never found him, literally looked 8 hours, and we saw no buzzards the next day, or the next. He left blood at the scene, and like I said, he dropped like hit by lightning, literally all 4 feet in the air. I am new to hunting and have HEARD that deer can run off after seeming dead, but...well, now I have seen it.

Was the deer quartering away/towards you? How'd you hit the stomach and the heart?

[03RN]

That is my conclusion.

Given similar shot placement I still prefer the federal DP. The sluggers are good too

[03RN]

I have been using Mossbergs a long time and prefer them over Remington's but I do like the older 870s and my 11-48.

I'm pretty comfortable with GRS out to 100-125 yards. Past that they drop to much for me to bother.

I've carried/shot the m1014 a lot when I was in and got real comfortable with what the slug can do inside 100 yards. Now I use my 590a1 for hunting/competing. RDS are much better, just like on carbines but I'm comfortable with GRS.

Like the above poster said, flight control buck has almost eliminated slugs from my use. I've used both federals 00 and Hornadys versatight#4 buck on deer out to 50 yards with very impressive results. I also routinely pattern my guns at that distance.

Generally if I think I'll be shooting past 50 yards I'll grab a rifle but I am pretty happy plunking slugs as well.

Empty propane tanks make great gongs for slugs at 100 yards:cool:

Not that these are using slugs but I do like shooting shotguns:)
22050

https://youtu.be/rIK1v_cynS4

[Unobtanium]

Was the deer quartering away/towards you? How'd you hit the stomach and the heart?

It was quartering away

[Unobtanium]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSU9LDnOK7A

[Hambo]

That's what I used to get from Sluggers at 100 yards, which is why rifled barrels and sabots became the thing for hunting. You could expect to cut groups by at least half with a rifled barrel/sabots.

[Luger]

Last week, after a long time with closed ranges, me and a friend finally were able to do some target shooting. I used the oportunity and shot a little bit with my VP9 at 50m (about 55yd). I kept all shots in a 25cm circle. My friend shot his AR15 at 50m, using iron sights and keeping all of his shots in a circle of 5cm. So I guess our shooting was okay that day, by our standards and given the fact that we did mostly dryfire for about a half year.

Then my friend took out his new ATA Arms Neo tactical 2 shotgun, equipped with an UTG reddot and we shot it with slugs at 50m. He had zeroed it in at 25m the week before and kept all his shots in a circle of about 10cm. So accuracy seemed okay to us.

My first five rounds (at 50m) were in a circle about 40cm. My friend initially did better than me, but after a few shots the rounds started hitting anywhere on the target. We suspected that the reddot might not work, so we put it of the gun and used iron sights instead. The result was, that we didn`t even hit the target anymore. We fired about 30 rounds, but the point of impact got more and more unpredictable.

Now I do most of my training with handguns and I have no problems to admit, that I`m not as good with a shotgun as with a handgun. But anyway if I use the MP5 or a rifle I allways shoot tighter groups than with a handgun. So doing worse at this range with a shoulder fired weapon than with a pistol seemd strange to me. Additionally my friend is a way better shooter with a shoulder fired weapon than me. Yet he didn`t score good hits, too.

Do you have to expect this level of accuracy with slugs at this range? Is the shotgun/ammo just crap? Is there anything we just don`t know? Or are we really that incompetent?

[Hambo]

Luger, respectfully, the first thing to check with heavy recoiling guns is the shooter. It's very easy to start flinching.

[revchuck38]

Flinching is a possibility, but I would also check the barrel for leading. Some shotguns dislike slugs, and some slugs are soft and/or undersized and lead badly. If it is leading, accuracy gets worse as you shoot more.

[Luger]

@ Hambo: I have no problem to put my ego aside and accept, that it was just our fault. But I`ve shot heavy recoiling rifles like the G3 and the K98 at distances up to 300m, so I don`t think recoil was the issue. Anyway, we`ll check the two shooters at our next trip to the range. ;)

revchuck38: I told my friend to check the barrel and we`ll try other slugs next time.

[TCinVA]

The exact slug you are using, the barrel, and your sighting system make a difference.

A red dot style optic is more precise as a means of confirming aim. Irons, whichever flavor you prefer, are difficult to use with the same sort of precision at distance.

The slugs themselves make a huge difference. As an example, I have yet to find a gun that groups well with Winchester's segmented slugs. It's a lovely concept for terminal ballistics, but at 50 yards they're all over a silhouette target with every gun I've tried.

I have found Fiocchi's Aero slugs to shoot very accurately from most of my shotguns. On my 1301 using my dot I can reliably make the slug holes touch at 50 yards from a good supported position. The only problem I have is that on the 1301 those slug holes are about 16" away from my intended point of aim. They shoot closer to my buckshot POA on my Remington 870 shotguns.

I have found Federal's Tru-Ball slugs shoot accurately enough out of my guns that the holes on the paper touch.

Lower or mid-velocity slugs (1,100, - 1,300 FPS) might shoot a little more accurately for you than max velocity slugs. (1,600 FPS +) Just as higher velocities tend to make for worse buckshot patterns because of the extra violence going down the bore, it can do the same for slugs.

[Unobtanium]

The exact slug you are using, the barrel, and your sighting system make a difference.

A red dot style optic is more precise as a means of confirming aim. Irons, whichever flavor you prefer, are difficult to use with the same sort of precision at distance.

The slugs themselves make a huge difference. As an example, I have yet to find a gun that groups well with Winchester's segmented slugs. It's a lovely concept for terminal ballistics, but at 50 yards they're all over a silhouette target with every gun I've tried.

I have found Fiocchi's Aero slugs to shoot very accurately from most of my shotguns. On my 1301 using my dot I can reliably make the slug holes touch at 50 yards from a good supported position. The only problem I have is that on the 1301 those slug holes are about 16" away from my intended point of aim. They shoot closer to my buckshot POA on my Remington 870 shotguns.

I have found Federal's Tru-Ball slugs shoot accurately enough out of my guns that the holes on the paper touch.

Lower or mid-velocity slugs (1,100, - 1,300 FPS) might shoot a little more accurately for you than max velocity slugs. (1,600 FPS +) Just as higher velocities tend to make for worse buckshot patterns because of the extra violence going down the bore, it can do the same for slugs.

I have actually found in Benelli bores that high velocity slugs are most accurate, even among same brand (Truball, Slugger, etc high velocity flavors always outshoot low).

[Coyote41]

What is everyone’s thoughts on barrel clamps and slugs. I’ve heard, but never actually seen, people complain of accuracy issues with them.


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[Lester Polfus]

12 Gauge smoothbores and slugs are a special kind of voodoo. Before I left my old agency, I was on a committee that was examining replacing all our weapons. We had a mix of 3rd Gen Smith 9's and .40s, MP5s with semi-auto trigger packs, and Remington 870s with a mix of bead and rifle sights made from the 1960s to the 1990s.

One question we wanted to answer is was "do we want to continue a shotgun program, and if so do we want to have slugs as a primary or optional load."

We took a bunch of different shotguns and a bunch of different slugs to the range and couldn't find a single load that performed consistently among all the guns. We could get 50 yard cloverleafs with brand X in one gun, and that ammo wouldn't be on the paper out of the gun on the rack next to it. Brand Y would perform completely different. That was before we addressed POA/POI issues with slugs.

Before we stood up the committee, everybody wanted us to buy Glocks and AR15s. We wound up recommending we buy Glocks and AR15s, but I got paid a bunch of OT to shoot guns.

I loved shotguns and was loathe to let my 14" 870 go, but as an agency it was the right decision overall. I was for it, for no other reason than the command staff was adamant about keeping 12 gauge less lethal guns, and I was of the firm opinion that having both 12 gauge lethal and 12 gauge less lethal guns in circulation was negligent, bordering on reckless. A few years later a neighboring agency found out how true that was the hard way.

For personal use, the only real solution is to buy a bunch of different slugs and see what shoots to your standard out of your gun.

[gato naranja]

I gave up on true "precision" with Foster- or Brenneke-type slugs out of the average shotgun, settling for a "good enough at reasonable ranges" standard that - given my eyes - gets shorter as I get older. If I were hunting deer in this state today, I would probably have to go with a sabot setup or say to hell with it and go with a large caliber muzzleloader. Scoped.


For personal use, the only real solution is to buy a bunch of different slugs and see what shoots to your standard out of your gun.

So true. When some of us were going through a phase where we were doing long range slug plinking we found out that all slugs were not created equal. By the time it became more "fun" than we could stand, we had concluded that shotgun/slug preferences were frustratingly individualistic.


What is everyone’s thoughts on barrel clamps and slugs. I’ve heard, but never actually seen, people complain of accuracy issues with them.

I suspect it might affect accuracy to some degree, but would be a chore to sort out given the larger accuracy issues slug guns have. That being said, the most consistently accurate 12 gauge old-school slug launcher I have personal knowledge of was a Winchester 37 that had nothing whatsoever touching its barrel past the forend (and even it did not shoot EVERY slug well... that gun also kicked the snot out of the operator).


I like the V-rear with the XS bead for fast work, but this ghost ring setup sucks.

I have the low-profile XS bead front/V rear "DEA-style" barrel on my remaining general-purpose 870P and prefer the setup to anything else because I can either use or ignore the rear. It is fast yet sufficiently helpful. My experiences with ghost rings and apertures on shotguns have been disappointing, though theoretically they made sense at the time.

[Luger]

So we checked the shooters and the ammo. With another brand of slugs accuracy improved to a 20-25cm circle at 50 meters.
Thank you all.