Carry Ammo Cycle

[dickmadison]

Hello all,

Please forgive me if this has been asked an answered, I couldn't find it. I have read that as long as ammo is in a cool and dry place, it will last for years. But I have also read that a lot of people cycle through their self defense loads that they normally carry in their magazines. I have read they cycle through it from every 2 months to once a year. What do you all recommend? Does the ammo in my magazines that I carry everyday need to be replaced at certain intervals and if so, why? Thanks so much.

DM

[Chuck Haggard]

We swap out duty ammo once per year at my job, this would be a policy I wrote so obviously I think it's a good idea.

I see no reason other than exigent circumstances to trade out ammo more often than that.

[Nephrology]

We swap out duty ammo once per year at my job, this would be a policy I wrote so obviously I think it's a good idea.

I see no reason other than exigent circumstances to trade out ammo more often than that.

by duty ammo how much do you mean per officer? is that just the issue mag's worth of ammo? how often is each round chambered in that year?

[ToddG]

Most people's belts aren't "a cool dry place." Carry ammo is subjected to frequent repeated temperature changes, humidity, vibration, etc. Nonetheless, odds are that for most people in most circumstances their ammo will last years if not decades.

Recommendations to shoot one's carry ammo every <insert period of time> have as much to do with verifying the gun still works and is in relatively proper condition in terms of maintenance as actual concern that the ammo has gone bad.

Another benefit to running through your carry ammo is to serve as a continuing function check.

[Chuck Haggard]

by duty ammo how much do you mean per officer? is that just the issue mag's worth of ammo? how often is each round chambered in that year?

Our basic load-out is what's in the pistol and two extra mags on the duty belt.

[LeeC]

How does bullet setback from rechambering rounds factor into EDC ammo life cycle? Lots of discussion on that, e.g. here (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?138-Shoot-your-carry-ammo-regularly/page7).

I've recently switched from carrying Federal 9BPLE @ $0.40 /round to Federal P9HST3 @ $0.62 /round. With the 9BPLEs, I'd rotate the chambered rounds down farther into the magazine in the pistol when unloading/reloading for dry fire practice, to minimize the number of times I re-chamber the round. Then I'd shoot up the 15 round G19 mag on my first drills at the range, which happened about twice a week. With the cost of my EDC ammo now up by 50%, I'm rethinking that practice.

ToddG's point in the long discussion I referenced above, to the effect that shooting the one chambered EDC round at the range is an insignificant part of the total cost of ownership (range fees, practice ammo, transportation, etc), is well put. Now I'm thinking that with soft rechambering (lock slide back, insert round, ease slide forward and press closed), I will just rechamber the same top round a few times between range trips and then shoot it on the first drill. I'll check the cartridge height on the soft-rechambered round using a straight edge comparison to some new rounds, at least a few times, to convince myself first-hand that this practice isn't leading to risking a KaBoom. One box of EDC ammo per 50 range trips is a small slice of the pie. Plus, this strategy keeps the EDC ammo from getting too old, with a low cost of one round per range trip.

***EDIT: Subject should have read "Wear and tear from rechambering EDC ammo".

[JV_]

Now I'm thinking that with soft rechambering (lock slide back, insert round, ease slide forward and press closed)Are you dropping the round in the chamber or using a magazine? A lot of guns are designed to have the round come out of the magazine, so it slides behind the extractor, rather than forcing the extractor around the rim. It can caused a chipped extractor.

[Chuck Haggard]

Are you dropping the round in the chamber or using a magazine? A lot of guns are designed to have the round come out of the magazine, so it slides behind the extractor, rather than forcing the extractor around the rim. It can caused a chipped extractor.

Exactly, a bad idea indeed.

[LeeC]

Are you dropping the round in the chamber or using a magazine? A lot of guns are designed to have the round come out of the magazine, so it slides behind the extractor, rather than forcing the extractor around the rim. It can caused a chipped extractor.

Yikes. Dropping the round into the chamber on Gen4 G19. Sounds like I should not do that.

[JV_]

Sounds like I should not do that.With a Glock, I wouldn't.

[bdcheung]

With a Glock, I wouldn't.

My daily carry is an M&P 9c and I wouldn't do it on that gun, either.

[JAD]

Maybe a beretta 21a. Can't think of any other semiauto that I'd do that to.

[JV_]

Maybe a beretta 21a.I don't know about the small guns, but it'd be OK on a 92. From the manual:


2. DIRECT CHAMBER LOADING
* Check that the manual safety is engaged (FS models only -Fig. 6a/6b)
* Pull open the slide. The slide remains open when an empty magazine is inserted or the slide catch is pressed upwards.
* Insert a round into the chamber. (Fig. 28)
* Press the slide catch to close the slide. (Fig. 30)

It's probably more stressful on the extractor than loading from a mag, but it's not like a Glock or 1911.

[dickmadison]

How does bullet setback from rechambering rounds factor into EDC ammo life cycle? Lots of discussion on that, e.g. here (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?138-Shoot-your-carry-ammo-regularly/page7).

I've recently switched from carrying Federal 9BPLE @ $0.40 /round to Federal P9HST3 @ $0.62 /round. With the 9BPLEs, I'd rotate the chambered rounds down farther into the magazine in the pistol when unloading/reloading for dry fire practice, to minimize the number of times I re-chamber the round. Then I'd shoot up the 15 round G19 mag on my first drills at the range, which happened about twice a week. With the cost of my EDC ammo now up by 50%, I'm rethinking that practice.

ToddG's point in the long discussion I referenced above, to the effect that shooting the one chambered EDC round at the range is an insignificant part of the total cost of ownership (range fees, practice ammo, transportation, etc), is well put. Now I'm thinking that with soft rechambering (lock slide back, insert round, ease slide forward and press closed), I will just rechamber the same top round a few times between range trips and then shoot it on the first drill. I'll check the cartridge height on the soft-rechambered round using a straight edge comparison to some new rounds, at least a few times, to convince myself first-hand that this practice isn't leading to risking a KaBoom. One box of EDC ammo per 50 range trips is a small slice of the pie. Plus, this strategy keeps the EDC ammo from getting too old, with a low cost of one round per range trip.

***EDIT: Subject should have read "Wear and tear from rechambering EDC ammo".

I'm sorry if I confused you all but I am not talking about wear and tear from rechambering EDC ammo. If i rack a round out from dry fire (which I rarely do because I dry fire other glocks I own), I replace the round and put the previously chambered round in box for range use. I am simply asking, does ammo go "bad" from being carried around in magazines when carrying in a holster and mag pouches. And if so, how often do you change it out. thanks to you all for helping with the question.

[DocGKR]

I typically change my carry ammo once per year.

[DocGKR]

I prefer to always chamber my round in the normal fashion...

[dickmadison]

I typically change my carry ammo once per year.

Thanks DocGKR. Most appreciated. is there a reason you feel you need to change it...such as, mags and gun have been out in the world/environment and exposed to dust/humidity etc.?

[DocGKR]

I shoot the carry ammo to verify function and POI/POA.

[dickmadison]

Thank you Doc!

[vcdgrips]

Once a year, during the week of my birthday.

David

[JAD]

Once a year, during the week of David's birthday.

Srsly, I empty all my mags when I go to the range except for 2x hardball. Those get me home, and I re-stock after the wipedown.

[HCM]

For your consideration if you are still carrying the same mag full of Black Talons you acquired at the start of the Clinton adminstration:

THE FOLLOWING TRAINING ADVISORY WAS FORWARDED FROM GWINETT COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT - LAWRENCEVILLE, GA

In September of this year a GCPD officer was involved in a situation which
quickly became a use of deadly force incident. When the officer made the decision to use deadly force, the chambered round in his duty pistol did not
fire. Fortunately, the officer used good tactics, remembered his training and cleared the malfunction, successfully ending the encounter.

The misfired round, which had a full firing pin strike, was collected and was later sent to the manufacturer for analysis. Their analysis showed the following: "...the cause of the misfire was determined to be from the primer
mix being knocked out of the primer when the round was cycled through the
firearm multiple times". We also sent an additional 2,000 rounds of the Winchester 9mm duty ammunition to the manufacturer. All 2,000 rounds were successfully fired.

In discussions with the officer, we discovered that since he has small children at home, he unloads his duty weapon daily. His routine is to eject the
chambered round to store the weapon. Prior to returning to duty he chambers the top round in his primary magazine, then takes the previously ejected round and puts in back in the magazine. Those two rounds were repeatedly cycled and had been since duty ammunition was issued in February or March of 2011, resulting in as many as 100 chambering and extracting cycles. This caused an internal failure of the primer, not discernible by external inspection.

This advisory is to inform all sworn personnel that repeated cycling of duty rounds is to be avoided. As a reminder, when loading the weapon, load from the magazine and do not drop the round directly into the chamber. If an officer's only method of safe home storage is to unload the weapon, the Firearms Training Unit suggests that you unload an entire magazine and rotate those rounds. In addition, you should also rotate through all 3 duty magazines, so that all 52 duty rounds are cycled, not just a few rounds. A more practical method of home storage is probably to use a trigger lock or a locked storage box.

FURTHER GUIDANCE:


The primer compound separation is a risk of repeatedly chambering the same
round. The more common issue is bullet setback, which increases the chamber pressures often resulting in more negative effects.

RECOMMENDATION:

In addition to following the guidance provided above of constantly rotating
duty ammunition that is removed during the unloading/reloading of the weapon, training ammunition utilized during firearm sustainment and weapon manipulation drills, should also be discarded if it has been inserted into the chamber more than twice. This practice lessens the likelihood of a failure
to fire or more catastrophic results

[Mr_White]

If an officer's only method of safe home storage is to unload the weapon, the Firearms Training Unit suggests that you unload an entire magazine and rotate those rounds. In addition, you should also rotate through all 3 duty magazines, so that all 52 duty rounds are cycled, not just a few rounds. A more practical method of home storage is probably to use a trigger lock or a locked storage box.


Totally picking nits here, but this part of the advisory makes it sound like one of the recommendations is to put a trigger lock on a loaded gun. That is a really bad idea.

[HCM]

Totally picking nits here, but this part of the advisory makes it sound like one of the recommendations is to put a trigger lock on a loaded gun. That is a really bad idea.

Agreed - we issue / recommend lock boxes exclusively. load it, leave it loaded, lock up as-is.

[Chuck Haggard]

Once a year, during the week of David's birthday.

Srsly, I empty all my mags when I go to the range except for 2x hardball. Those get me home, and I re-stock after the wipedown.


Mag dump event, that actually sounds like a fun birthday party.

[dickmadison]

That is awesome information about the primer separating. Thank you for informing us! I appreciate it.

[JRas]

How does bullet setback from rechambering rounds factor into EDC ammo life cycle? Lots of discussion on that, e.g. here (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?138-Shoot-your-carry-ammo-regularly/page7).

I've recently switched from carrying Federal 9BPLE @ $0.40 /round to Federal P9HST3 @ $0.62 /round. With the 9BPLEs, I'd rotate the chambered rounds down farther into the magazine in the pistol when unloading/reloading for dry fire practice, to minimize the number of times I re-chamber the round. Then I'd shoot up the 15 round G19 mag on my first drills at the range, which happened about twice a week. With the cost of my EDC ammo now up by 50%, I'm rethinking that practice.

ToddG's point in the long discussion I referenced above, to the effect that shooting the one chaImbered EDC round at the range is an insignificant part of the total cost of ownership (range fees, practice ammo, transportation, etc), is well put. Now I'm thinking that with soft rechambering (lock slide back, insert round, ease slide forward and press closed), I will just rechamber the same top round a few times between range trips and then shoot it on the first drill. I'll check the cartridge height on the soft-rechambered round using a straight edge comparison to some new rounds, at least a few times, to convince myself first-hand that this practice isn't leading to risking a KaBoom. One box of EDC ammo per 50 range trips is a small slice of the pie. Plus, this strategy keeps the EDC ammo from getting too old, with a low cost of one round per range trip.

***EDIT: Subject should have read "Wear and tear from rechambering EDC ammo".

If I recall correctly, "soft-chambering" would not be a good idea. I remember it being said in my Hk manual and a magpul clip about prepping before you leave the house.

[bdcheung]

I think the viability of direct-chamber loading (or "soft chambering") should be handled on a firearm-by-firearm basis. Some manufacturers say it's OK; others (like 1911-variants) make it clear the practice is strictly verboten.