Current state of 12 gauge pump actions

[Mitch]

A little more narrow focus than just shotguns in general...

I'm wanting a 12 gauge for home defense. Would like to be all in for around $500.

I'm kicking myself for not grabbing one of the 870Ps from summit gun broker. I've found new 870 express tacticals for around $320, and with a current $50 rebate that's tempting.

I'd prefer an 870 to a mossberg, but if new 870s are turds and I can't find a used 870P/wing master in a reasonable time, then I'd be open to a 590. Standard bead sights are fine for what I'm looking for here.

Thoughts? What's the easiest way to get a quality weapon in this case?


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[pangloss]

Just watch Gunbroker for a couple of weeks. You should be able to get a used 870P or old Wingmaster for close to the Summit price.

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[farscott]

My limited experience with NEW 870 shotguns has been less than stellar. Perhaps I have been unlucky, but the last three NIB ones I examined had issues, some cosmetic and some functional. I was also told of one, but did not see it, that had the left shell latch not staked. Not a bad stake, but looks like it never was staked.

Just keep watching Summit Gun Broker as Mark usually gets new batches of LE trade-in 870 guns several times a year.

[warpedcamshaft]

I wouldn't buy a new Mossberg or Remington...

Either dig around for a used 870p or buy an old beater pawn shop 870 and send it into Wilson for the Remington Steal deal... So many guns that used to be a solid bet just suck now... It really pisses me off.

[Mitch]

I wouldn't buy a new Mossberg or Remington...

Either dig around for a used 870p or buy an old beater pawn shop 870 and send it into Wilson for the Remington Steal deal... So many guns that used to be a solid bet just suck now... It really pisses me off.

I will admit I haven't spent a lot of time researching this, but it does seem like the new pump action market kind of sucks?


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[Lester Polfus]

I will admit I haven't spent a lot of time researching this, but it does seem like the new pump action market kind of sucks?


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The new ones I have looked at have been a little rough.

One of the biggest issues for both Mossberg and Remington is that they are competing against used examples of their own product. If you walk into any reasonably well stocked gun store that carries used shotguns, you'll find at least a few used 500's and 870's, many of them from an era when they actually paid people to do that last 10% to 15% of effort to finish them nicely.

It's very much the situation that Winchester found itself in regarding the 94. New ones commanded stupid money, and many examples were a little sloppy. You could walk over to the used rack and find a slightly worn example for a fraction of the price.

[S Jenks]

How are the Benelli Nova pumps?


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[ScotchMan]

I wouldn't buy any new Remington product. My 15-20 year old 870 Express still rusts if you look at it wrong, so I'm not sure that age has much to do with it, but I've never owned a Police or Wingmaster.

I got a 590a1 not long ago and I'm extremely happy with it. Other than a few posts over in the 590a1 thread, I've never seen anything to indicate new production Mossbergs aren't good to go. I don't buy hundreds of shotguns though.

So my answer would be a new 500, 590, or 590a1 depending on your preferences. If you want to avoid Remmy or Mossberg, I'd be asking the same question as the poster above me, how are the Benelli Novas.

[Fordtough25]

I've had great use of newer 590A1's in 18.5 and 20' config. Tried a new 870 tactical last year and while I liked the shotgun setup it had a horrible action. I'd go with well used 870 or a 590A1 from any year.

[JeffDG]

I've got a current manufacture 18.5" 590 that is great. Had an 870 express tactical before it and the barrel finish was terrible.

[farscott]

I wouldn't buy any new Remington product. My 15-20 year old 870 Express still rusts if you look at it wrong, so I'm not sure that age has much to do with it, but I've never owned a Police or Wingmaster.

On the older 870 Express guns with the rough finish, a can of WD-40 Specialist Long-Term Corrosion Inhibitor will do the trick. I have been impressed with its performance on my cast-iron BBQ smoker. One application stops any rust from starting for a year, other than on the firebox (burns off). And that poor thing sees lots of rain and condensation. It leaves a white waxy residue on the metal that seems to keep oxygen and water from the metal. Not pretty, but it works.

[willie]

Any problems with a new Mossberg 500, 590, or 590a1 are easily remedied. That said, either should serve well. I suggest a 590 with 18 inch barrel and bead sight. Probability is that you will have zero problems. Purists have always viewed Mossbergs as clunkers when compared to an old school 870. Clunker or not Mossbergs work well and keep on clunking.

Their lower cost offering is the Maverick 88. You can buy the security version or field model from Walmart for $188. 99% of parts interchange and are made in the same factory in Mexico. These lack the tang safety. The safety is located in the same place as an 870's. Another difference is that the receiver is not tapped for scope mounts. After having spent scores of hours studying these two Mossberg offerings, I'm convinced that they are the same except as described. So buy two for the price of one.

[RevolverRob]

I wouldn't buy a new Mossberg or Remington...

You're the first person I've seen who has said they won't buy a new Mossberg.

___

Mossberg 590A1 would be my choice.

[SeriousStudent]

OP, are you right handed or left handed?

I think most righty's tend to like a 870 when properly equipped. Most lefty's tend to like a 590A1.

I would not run an 870 Express of any flavor unless it was so heavily modified as to make it more expensive than an 870P. The chambers are atrocious, the internals are rough as a cob, and they are just not a bargain at all.

I am right handed, but am actually giving serious thought to one of these:

http://www.mossberg.com/product/590a1-9-shot-left-handed-59815/ And it's $500 on Gunbroker.

If you think about reloading it from a Velcro shell carrier on the left side of a receiver, it starts looking very attractive. Load the shells brass up for retention. Then pick them out and fling them smartly into the chamber and mag tube. Easy peazy.

If I can just get a short piece of vent rib mounted on the barrel for an Aimpoint S1, I'd be cooking with gas! I'd take off the Picatinny rail on top of the receiver. That thing would be one speedy bastige on reloads.

Competitive shooters used to run left-handed 870's years ago. This would follow that practice.

Anyway, just a thought. I'll keep an eye out for an 870 for you, if you wish. Just left me know.

[Mitch]

OP, are you right handed or left handed?

Anyway, just a thought. I'll keep an eye out for an 870 for you, if you wish. Just left me know.

I'm right handed. If you could I would really appreciate it. Drinks on me when I make it down to Texas.


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[SeriousStudent]

I'm right handed. If you could I would really appreciate it. Drinks on me when I make it down to Texas.


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Done, I'll keep an eye peeled.

[L-2]

At a quick website search, given the brief info/requirements in the first post, I'll recommend this Mossberg 590 which is on sale to 9/14/17:
https://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=50779&index=2&mfg=Mossberg&mdl=All&cat=All&type=All&cal=12+Gauge&fin=&sit=&pid=&inv=

Cost-wise, it's very important to precisely specify one's requirements and try to buy that shotgun configured as you want right from the start.
Costs get high if a person thinks they will later add ghost ring sights; different stocks; and still plans to add other things in addition to ammo: slings; ammo carriers; lights; and other stuff.

I prefer the Mossberg 590A1 over the 500. This was probably due to the heavier weight of the 590A1 which must have allowed me to better control recoil and follow-up shots.
I do own a Remington 870P, too, which is my close 2nd choice. My shotguns were all budgeted at $1,000+ however.

Also, those new 14" NFA guns (Remington TAC-14 or Mossberg "Shockwave") may also fit the requirements as set. I prefer a straight stock, but some folks to opt for a pistol grip only weapon, especially if the main use turns out to be just something to have in the house with little practice or range time (even though I'll always advocate frequent range outings involving many rounds).

Do some internet shopping and first determine the precise specification; then look for the best price new or used. If the pricing still seems too high, then start cutting corners. Starting with a $500 price, to me, is doing the shopping and research backwards, and doesn't quite address your wants/needs/requirements as well.

Otherwise, an 870, a bead sight, and $500, is all I remember the requirements were and those few requirements are easily found web-shopping.

[warpedcamshaft]

You're the first person I've seen who has said they won't buy a new Mossberg.

___

Mossberg 590A1 would be my choice.

I've not had good luck with a recent example (I posted a thread about it. It has flat out stopped working several times.) I also found quite a few threads and videos showing identical QC issues around the inter-webs.

Take it for what it is worth... from a long time Mossberg user.

[Unobtanium]

I've not had good luck with a recent example (I posted a thread about it. It has flat out stopped working several times.) I also found quite a few threads and videos showing identical QC issues around the inter-webs.

Take it for what it is worth... from a long time Mossberg user.

Mossberg quality sucks. I've yet to see one that didn't have issues looking at them at the store, etc. Missing mag cap detents, bayonet that falls off when you shoot it, just sloppy.

I went with a Benelli supernova tactical that I found lightly used on barfcom for 350 shipped.

[SD]

I worked with the 870P/wingmaster for over twenty-five years. The 870 grew on me over the years, especially seeing the abuse it could take and still work. Sometime in the early 2000's when I needed to purchase an 870 I asked a Dept. armourer which one to get. He said stay away from the "express 870" they are junk! Get a P or SPS. I found a 870sps, it was significantly more then the cost of the express. When the gun arrived I could tell the Weapon's guy at work was on the mark with his suggestion. I liked it so much I spent the money and put a Hastings cantilever, slug barrel on it for deer. This shotgun sits next to my bed, Heaven help the uninvited person who dare violate my Kingdom. Not sure what all the differences are with the 870 models, but I can say this my action bars glide smoothly when chambering a round, can't say the same for Express models Ive handled.

[OlongJohnson]

On the older 870 Express guns with the rough finish, a can of WD-40 Specialist Long-Term Corrosion Inhibitor will do the trick. I have been impressed with its performance on my cast-iron BBQ smoker. One application stops any rust from starting for a year, other than on the firebox (burns off). And that poor thing sees lots of rain and condensation. It leaves a white waxy residue on the metal that seems to keep oxygen and water from the metal. Not pretty, but it works.

I have used the Hornady One Shot lube. It's the only thing that keeps my tools from rusting in the garage, and no white waxy residue. Works very nicely with anything parkerized, like an 870 Express.

[breakingtime91]

I hve an old mossberg 500. What should I update/ add to it to make it worthy of a fighting shotgun

[farscott]

I have used the Hornady One Shot lube. It's the only thing that keeps my tools from rusting in the garage, and no white waxy residue. Works very nicely with anything parkerized, like an 870 Express.

Thanks for the information on the Hornady One Shot lube. One niggling comment: The 870 Express finish, at least on the vast majority of them, is NOT Parkerized. It is a bluing process of a very rough surface. It is almost as if Remington bead blasts the metal with a really coarse blast media that contains rusted steel.

Remington did and does Parkerize some 870 models, notably the 870P and the original 870 Special Purpose guns. I have a pair of Parkerized 870SP guns with oil-finished wood stocks that need no more attention than the 870P, while the 870 Express next to them in the safe needed the WD-40 treatment to stop it from turning into a giant pile of rust.

[OlongJohnson]

Thanks for the information on the Hornady One Shot lube. One niggling comment: The 870 Express finish, at least on the vast majority of them, is NOT Parkerized. It is a bluing process of a very rough surface. It is almost as if Remington bead blasts the metal with a really coarse blast media that contains rusted steel.

Remington did and does Parkerize some 870 models, notably the 870P and the original 870 Special Purpose guns. I have a pair of Parkerized 870SP guns with oil-finished wood stocks that need no more attention than the 870P, while the 870 Express next to them in the safe needed the WD-40 treatment to stop it from turning into a giant pile of rust.

Learned something. I just assumed anything that dull and rough had to be parkerized, and also figured Rem went to it on the Express because it seems to be generally cheaper than bluing. Manganese phosphate (the generic term for parkerizing) doesn't have much corrosion resistance on its own, but it's basically a sponge grown on the surface of the iron. You can load it up with oil and it holds it really well, and it burnishes down to a nice, slick surface with use. But it's also soft, so it can be burnished away completely, too.

It's actually a fact that any blast media in service on steel does contain steel particles, and if the moisture in the air isn't controlled, they will be rusty. That's why it's necessary to completely sanitize a blast system that sees steel before using it on stainless or aluminum. You can embed microscopic bits of carbon steel in the surface of the other metal, which will turn into non-microscopic orange rust spots. It's best just to have separate, dedicated systems.

[peterb]

I hve an old mossberg 500. What should I update/ add to it to make it worthy of a fighting shotgun

I'm sure the experts will chime in soon, but......

I found that the factory safety button was too slippery, especially with gloves. There are several replacement options but I like this one:
http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/receiver-action-parts/safety-parts/safeties/mossberg-500-590-835-930-935-enhanced-safety-button-prod26966.aspx

Replacing the magazine spring is a common recommendation, but it's harder on a 500 than a 590.

A white light.

A detachable sling.

There are all sorts of sight options if you don't like the standard bead -- everything from a Big Dot bead to ghost rings to red dots.

[willie]

Unless there has been a recent change, the Express does not have a parkerized finish. It's merely rough and thinly blued.

[ralph]

I think the best suggestion was the one suggesting hitting the pawn shops, used racks at the gun shops and look for a older used 870 Wingmaster. I'd also suggest looking for something made prior to 1995, from what I've read, that seems to be about when Remington's quailty started to decline. Luckily, there are date codes stamped on the barrels so one could figure out when one was made. I'd look for a 870 made in the 70's or 80's, and as was mentioned before send it to Wilson Combat, and have them go through it. When yougot it back, you'd have a reliable well made shotgun, that should hold up for a long time. Seeing how Remington has made about 3 million of these things since the late 50's it should'nt be too hard to find a older Wingmaster in really good shape, seeing how most folks only used them a few times a year, and basically shot them very little.

[warpedcamshaft]

I hve an old mossberg 500. What should I update/ add to it to make it worthy of a fighting shotgun

If everything was in-spec and working previously... I would replace both extractor springs (or keep a fresh set on hand), magazine spring (I used the WOLLF generic spring and cut it myself), remove ejector screw and re-torque with loctite.

When you replace the mag spring you will need to remove the magazine tube... use a heat gun and a strap wrench.

Vang Comp safety is a great upgrade. Also their magazine follower is great.

All this info is based on things I've had go wrong with my current Mossberg 500.

[That Guy]

Standard bead sights are fine for what I'm looking for here.


While you say that, I really, really recommend spending the $20 or so on a snap on Hi-Viz fiber optic bead. Makes a pretty big difference with a pretty small investment of money.

Sorry for going a bit off topic. Just thought it was worth mentioning.

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[Mitch]

Kind of a long shot, but does anyone have experience with Mossberg model 52134?

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/411551209/redirect

Seems decent for the price and comes with a short stock which I like, but I couldn't get an answer from Mossberg on if it was a parkerized finish or the shitty finish Remington puts on Express guns. They just kept repeating matte blue from the spec sheet at me until they beat me into submission.


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[David S.]

870 Wingmaster build (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?17668-Gauge-Pic-Thread&p=655889&viewfull=1#post655889): Based on lessons learned from Dagga Boy 's shotgun classes.

[JHC]

I think the best suggestion was the one suggesting hitting the pawn shops, used racks at the gun shops and look for a older used 870 Wingmaster. I'd also suggest looking for something made prior to 1995, from what I've read, that seems to be about when Remington's quailty started to decline. Luckily, there are date codes stamped on the barrels so one could figure out when one was made. I'd look for a 870 made in the 70's or 80's, and as was mentioned before send it to Wilson Combat, and have them go through it. When yougot it back, you'd have a reliable well made shotgun, that should hold up for a long time. Seeing how Remington has made about 3 million of these things since the late 50's it should'nt be too hard to find a older Wingmaster in really good shape, seeing how most folks only used them a few times a year, and basically shot them very little.

That's what I did when I stumbled onto this late '50's 870 in a local shop. $185. Solid mechanically. 2 3/4" chamber limitation but I really hate long gun recoil anyway so for my modest purposes, it works.

20891

[Nephrology]

I have a 70's era Wingmaster 20" riot gun and a 90s era 18" 870P. Been very pleased with them.

[Unobtanium]

I just shot my Supernova Tactical prone with some slugs. Fired a dozen or so. I dunno what Benelli is doing, but they are doing it right. No flinch, slugs all landed in tight touching clusters at 25 yards, fun fun fun!

From what I am reading, out of the top 10 competitors that compete with pump guns, only a couple, if that, don't use the Supernova or Nova.

[flux]

So I found an 870 special purpose, with 26” barrel at a great price. I’m considering taking it and having the barrel cut down to 18”. Any thoughts on the current state of the pump, seeing that it’s a few years later since this thread was created.

[TCinVA]

So I found an 870 special purpose, with 26” barrel at a great price. I’m considering taking it and having the barrel cut down to 18”. Any thoughts on the current state of the pump, seeing that it’s a few years later since this thread was created.

Remington going out of production and going back into limited production under new ownership. The new guns I've seen don't handle any better than the pre-shutdown Express models I ran into. They still aren't vibra-honed to give that nice smooth action that us old 870 guys like. Parts for the 870 can be harder to find to do upgrades or replacements. Barrels, especially, seem to be in shorter supply making the process of having a competent shop solder sights on your barrel more sensible since you can't just buy a rifle-sighted 870 barrel as easily anymore.

The days of snagging 870 Wingmasters and Police shotguns for $200 a pop seem to be over.

One thing that is different from when this thread started is that I've had the chance to see a fair number of pieces from Cotton Branch Customs in the last few years. They're a solid option for helping build a shotgun you're looking to modify.

There is a seemingly ceaseless supply of garbage tier Turkish import shotguns that will break the first time you shoot them. And some of them are bullpup configurations with box magazines...so that's a fresh kind of hell we didn't have before.

[flux]

Remington going out of production and going back into limited production under new ownership. The new guns I've seen don't handle any better than the pre-shutdown Express models I ran into. They still aren't vibra-honed to give that nice smooth action that us old 870 guys like. Parts for the 870 can be harder to find to do upgrades or replacements. Barrels, especially, seem to be in shorter supply making the process of having a competent shop solder sights on your barrel more sensible since you can't just buy a rifle-sighted 870 barrel as easily anymore.

The days of snagging 870 Wingmasters and Police shotguns for $200 a pop seem to be over.

One thing that is different from when this thread started is that I've had the chance to see a fair number of pieces from Cotton Branch Customs in the last few years. They're a solid option for helping build a shotgun you're looking to modify.

There is a seemingly ceaseless supply of garbage tier Turkish import shotguns that will break the first time you shoot them. And some of them are bullpup configurations with box magazines...so that's a fresh kind of hell we didn't have before.
I should have mentioned, this one is second hand from what I can see is one of the older production models. The price it's going at is what the Turkish new pump actions are going at. I briefly owned a new model express, and got rid of it once I saw how inferior it was to the older police models etc.

[LHS]

Remington going out of production and going back into limited production under new ownership. The new guns I've seen don't handle any better than the pre-shutdown Express models I ran into. They still aren't vibra-honed to give that nice smooth action that us old 870 guys like. Parts for the 870 can be harder to find to do upgrades or replacements. Barrels, especially, seem to be in shorter supply making the process of having a competent shop solder sights on your barrel more sensible since you can't just buy a rifle-sighted 870 barrel as easily anymore.

The days of snagging 870 Wingmasters and Police shotguns for $200 a pop seem to be over.

One thing that is different from when this thread started is that I've had the chance to see a fair number of pieces from Cotton Branch Customs in the last few years. They're a solid option for helping build a shotgun you're looking to modify.

There is a seemingly ceaseless supply of garbage tier Turkish import shotguns that will break the first time you shoot them. And some of them are bullpup configurations with box magazines...so that's a fresh kind of hell we didn't have before.

This, but I will add that the new-production 870s I've seen in person seem to have less issues with sticky chambers than the FG-era guns. They seem to be a bit more reliable than the guns pumped out in the last few years.

[TheNewbie]

Remington going out of production and going back into limited production under new ownership. The new guns I've seen don't handle any better than the pre-shutdown Express models I ran into. They still aren't vibra-honed to give that nice smooth action that us old 870 guys like. Parts for the 870 can be harder to find to do upgrades or replacements. Barrels, especially, seem to be in shorter supply making the process of having a competent shop solder sights on your barrel more sensible since you can't just buy a rifle-sighted 870 barrel as easily anymore.

The days of snagging 870 Wingmasters and Police shotguns for $200 a pop seem to be over.

One thing that is different from when this thread started is that I've had the chance to see a fair number of pieces from Cotton Branch Customs in the last few years. They're a solid option for helping build a shotgun you're looking to modify.

There is a seemingly ceaseless supply of garbage tier Turkish import shotguns that will break the first time you shoot them. And some of them are bullpup configurations with box magazines...so that's a fresh kind of hell we didn't have before.


What are your thoughts on the current Mossbergs, or even their Maverick 88s, as a cheap shotgun option? Not something that would be shot at anything close to PF round counts.

[TCinVA]

What are your thoughts on the current Mossbergs, or even their Maverick 88s, as a cheap shotgun option? Not something that would be shot at anything close to PF round counts.

I've had several brand new 590A1 shotguns come to class only to have to go back to Mossberg because the internals were so rough the action locked up.

I had a private client Friday who brought a new-in-box 590A1 that functioned superbly.

So, crapshoot.

[LHS]

A year or two back, I was at a local shotgun match and a competitor had a brand-new, out-of-the-box 590A1 with horked-up shell latches. He'd run the action, and it would feed a shell into the chamber and spit another one out the loading port onto the sand..

[Hambo]

A year or two back, I was at a local shotgun match and a competitor had a brand-new, out-of-the-box 590A1 with horked-up shell latches. He'd run the action, and it would feed a shell into the chamber and spit another one out the loading port onto the sand..

That's the select-slug feature. ;)

[HeavyDuty]

WTF would someone bring a gun to a match without shooting it in first?

[rob_s]

WTF would someone bring a gun to a match without shooting it in first?

If only that were rare…

We used to get guys straight from the gun show.

[willie]

I've had several brand new 590A1 shotguns come to class only to have to go back to Mossberg because the internals were so rough the action locked up.

I had a private client Friday who brought a new-in-box 590A1 that functioned superbly.

So, crapshoot.

Unfortunately, what you describe is not a new event. I have owned three 590 series shotguns, and two were broken out of the box. I learned not to order one sight unseen. My lgs a couple years back had 10 new ones in stock at one time. For the privilege of examining these weapons, I agreed to clean each. Of course, I checked each. All were tiptop. My explanation for the crapshoot in many cases is that Mossberg outsources some parts. When these are out of spec, the guns don't work. Shell latches or interrupters are the most frequent offenders. My opinion is that if you buy a Mossberg, then you should polish the chamber with 0000 steel wool.

Manufacturers make guns in runs. I think that quality varies from one run to the next. Tool wear is a factor, and whether or not outsourced parts are in spec is another. I have noticed that Mossberg bores and chambers have small pits which must be a type of tool mark. Usually I remove most of these by judicious polishing. Why? I'm obsessive about such.

[Sammy1]

I love shotguns and highly recommend one for HD. I would go with a 500/590/590A1 or Remington 870 just for the ease of mounting a light or a light mounted fore-end. I have a TL racker on my 870 and love it. That being said, I don't have any experience with the newer Mossbergs or Remingtons. Someone mentioned a Benelli Nova. I have a Benelli Nova for hunting and they are rock solid! You can get a Benelli Nova Tactical 18.5 inch with a bead, rifle sights or ghost ring for under $500, ( just looked and found them for under $400). Only issue with the Nova is accessories, they aren't as easy to find as a Rem or Moss. Also, because of the pump design it's hard to mount a shell card on the receiver.

[Hambo]

I have a Benelli Nova for hunting and they are rock solid! You can get a Benelli Nova Tactical 18.5 inch with a bead, rifle sights or ghost ring for under $500, ( just looked and found them for under $400). Only issue with the Nova is accessories, they aren't as easy to find as a Rem or Moss. Also, because of the pump design it's hard to mount a shell card on the receiver.

I've been a diehard 870 guy, but I bought a Super Nova Tactical this year, and I really like it. The pattern with Flite Control buck and my own Lyman slugs look identical, meaning one large hole. The mag cutoff button works, but I have my doubts about how easy it would be to find while under pressure. It's heavier than an 870, but I wanted that for slug shooting. Single reloads into the ejection port are easy because it's so long (for 3.5" shells). As you say, accessories are limited. I added a Nordic extension and a HPG buttstock ammo carrier. I bought a 26" barrel as well, and tried some 3.5" buckshot loads. There will be no more 3.5" shell testing.

[Caballoflaco]

and tried some 3.5" buckshot loads. There will be no more 3.5" shell testing.

I shot some 3.5” buckshot in a mossberg 835 once. And by some I mean however many pellets were contained in a single shell. That was enough for me

[Hambo]

I shot some 3.5” buckshot in a mossberg 835 once. And by some I mean however many pellets were contained in a single shell. That was enough for me

It doesn't seem as brutal out of my SBE2, but I noticed most of the boxes of 3.5" shells I have still have four shells in them. :confused:

[rob_s]

I bought a Super Nova Tactical this year…
…accessories are limited.

Given gun-owners’ propensity for gluing whatever whiz-bang they can find onto their boom-stick, that fact alone might make it a worthwhile recommendation. :cool: