Hurricane bug-out/in lessons

[rob_s]

Obviously this will apply to lots of various disasters but the aggregate may be specific to this scenario of a named storm. I'd like to bar, and share, thoughts and lessons learned recently or in real time.

This is the first time I've had to contend with anyone other than myself in this kind of situation. I have myself, a 42 year old woman in good health and fitness, a 9 yeear old girl, a 6 year old girl, a 65+ year old woman with copd, and a 65+ year old man with diabetes and other issues. Plus two ~25 lbs dogs. It's a lot to consider. By myself I would t have the homestead I have now, which means buttoning up would be easier and any eventual bugout would be easier.

Some home-specific lessons...
1) I will not live in a potential hurricane zone going forward without impact windows, shutters, or both. With 13 windows and 5 French doors, juts on thensingle story main house, it's a whole day to wrestle with the plywood and get it in place, and it takes two of us to do it. The guest house has a second story which further complicates the issue. Once this is over I'll be making arrangements to harden the house, and I kind of don't care what it costs.
2) I am going to begin investigating underground propane. Stays stockpiled by default, and can power a grill indefinitely. If we upgrade to a gas stove then we can cook inside too. And if we choose to get a...
3) generator. I have a small portable unit, but I'm considering a more permanent option. Especially if I have the tank anyway. We are on a well so the generator could power that if it survives...
4) possible we'll equipment enclosure. Ours is a whole-house RO. Requires a 220 circuit for one pump, 110 for the other, and two duplex 20 amps for the other equipment. I'm considering buying or building a pump house for all of it.

With where we live 2 and 3 will get used for more than just storms, and 4 will help to protect the expensive well equipment from Kemal weather wear. 1 should help with electric bills and up resale value. And cut insurance cost.

Bugging-in
1) collapsible water bottles. We current,y fill every cooler, the tub, every water jug, etc. but if I had ten 5-gallon collapsible jugs stashed at the house it would cost me $100 now and provide a dedicated solution later. We fill the tub too. And we can flush toilets with pool water.
2) I just recently pitched a bucket of mountain house Or similar due to suspect storage over the time since I owned it. I need to restock. I doubt I'd ever eat it but it would make me feel better to have it.
3) kind of a house thing, but I've been wanting a chest freezer and now I want one even more. Cheap insurance and ice storage. I have plenty of room for it.

Bugging out
1) guns. I'd like an easier way to transport them inconspicuously. Possible a takedown backpack for a 16" AR and a backpack wit a secret pouch for a pistol. I think Vertx makes both.
2) gas. Given where we live there aren't lot of roads out and gas along those roads gets dicey. I need a couple more 5-gallon cans I can fill early and store in the bed of the truck.
3) secure truck bed. I already started a thread on a rolling bed cover. I want to be able to hide things like gas cans and coolers.

That's enough banging away at thenipad keyboard for now...

[JHC]

I'm haunted by the question of . . . all the guns? Or hope the safe stays safe and just take some reasonably portable quanitity?

I guess if I was getting out real early and traveling to a known secure place in advance, all might be feasible. If it the bug in turned into emergency bug out then IDK. Then travel security of them could get dicey.

[rob_s]

Without getting into whether or not to take them, I have isnraunce on just the guns. I don't want to lose them, but if I do...

[RevolverRob]

FYI: Well water will likely to be contaminated by flood waters, should a flood occur. Particularly, if you have local sewage over septic. If you have septic, spend a few hundred confirming it is in good condition in the future and maintain it.

I would consider additional above-ground water storage and filtration. You could build a cistern or consider a tank system. A cistern with a small current will keep nasty things from forming in it. A closed tank system can be chlorinated occasionally to keep it clean.

RE: Bug out, some guns. You could take steps to secure the additional ones (remove bolts, firing pins, separate uppers/lowers, etc) if you have time. It's my opinion that guns and ammo should be stored in such a way as you would feel comfortable leaving them for weeks/a few months at a time, virtually every day. If you aren't comfortable with your security, sell some guns and gear and get everything secure.

[hufnagel]

if i were to live in a hurricane (or flooding in general) zone, I'd automatically take certain precautions:
hurricane shutters for the windows and doors.
water exfiltration capabilities (sump pumps with battery backup capabilities. multiple redundancy.)
alternate power/heating/cooling capabilities (generators, solar panels, battery banks, propane tanks.)
a shed stocked with a supply of plywood, 2x4s, tarps.
a basement or at least a crawl space would be a must.
I'd want the property to be on some kind of hill or at least proud of the surrounding landscape or roadways by a couple feet. I learned this from grandma's house; the Pompton/Ramapo River junction crested only 2 inches higher in Sandy than Irene, but it was enough to put 6 feet of water in her house, destroying it.
I'd build a decorative "sea wall" around the property that I can somehow close or seal the openings of during times of danger.
There's probably a ton of other ideas I'd come up with if I lived in that type of situation. Of course I'd have to REALLY REALLY want to live there! :D

I know I won't "win" at some point, but I can at least try to stave off some of it. If Texas has showed us anything, it's when the Big One hits there's nothing you can do. Accept and expect everything to be lost.

[farscott]

On the windows, I highly recommend windows that meet the "Miami-Dade County" (TAS 20x) code. There are a couple of issues, some of which may be moot because you are in Florida and I am not. We got ours after a tornado tossed something into a window and the glass exploded. We found glass all over the house. Did not want a repeat.

1) Lots of companies say they carry these windows, but they do not. The windows are essentially made-to-order. Lead time was about ninety days. We went with Andersen. Pella was the other choice.

2) We went with "new construction" windows versus "replacement windows" even though this was a retrofit due to the better attachment to the house. We did have to cut a lot of brick out and then replace brick. Matching the brick was a bit of a headache.

3) These windows are HEAVY. The nine foot long picture window took four men to get into place.

4) Definitely a price penalty for the windows. Cost was double regular Andersen windows.

[Grey]

if i were to live in a hurricane (or flooding in general) zone, I'd automatically take certain precautions:
a basement or at least a crawl space would be a must.


Is that to give the water somewhere to go and not destroy your main level?

[hufnagel]

Is that to give the water somewhere to go and not destroy your main level?

That would be where my thoughts would be. Give it someplace to go, where I can also be pumping it out. I've been through storms at mom's house where the sump pump was pumping water out barely faster than it was coming in. We used to joke that if it flooded ONE MORE TIME we'd just turn it into an indoor swimming pool. :D

[Cookie Monster]

No hurricanes for me but all these things have me thinking about upping my preps. Getting 20 gallons of gas in storage and organizing the camping gear better organized for some quick leaving if needed. Updating (and finding) my checklists for things to take.

My threat is wildfire, I gotta get back to chainsawing and piling and burning around the property and getting a 1000 gallon tank in place.

[Malamute]

That would be where my thoughts would be. Give it someplace to go, where I can also be pumping it out. I've been through storms at mom's house where the sump pump was pumping water out barely faster than it was coming in. We used to joke that if it flooded ONE MORE TIME we'd just turn it into an indoor swimming pool. :D

My dad had a second sump pump set a little higher as overload backup. He ended up having two basement floods with 2, then 3 feet of water the next year, even with both pumps. They got it emptied out in a couple hours. I had him get a third pump of I believe 70 gpm as an emergency overload backup. That doubles the output of both the other 2 together. Im going to raise the outlets for the pumps to about 5 feet above floor level.

[hufnagel]

Yea sometimes you're the dog and someone else is wagging your tail. :D

In my hypothetical hurricane area home, I'd have a high flow dirty water pump (https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-212cc-gasoline-engine-semi-trash-water-pump-158-gpm-63405.html) waiting near-line to start running if/when the sumps fail to keep up. I'd deliberately use an engine powered one (possibly with a propane conversion unit on it) since if you're in that big a water problem you're probably hurting for other things like electric.

It's all a matter of how far are you willing to go down the rabbit hole.

[Chance]

I went through the bug out phase. Unless you're simply forced to leave the house due to water or fire, I think it's just not a realistic option for most folks.

With regard to bugging in: as much water as possible, food with a long shelf life that can be prepared with a flame, sanitary considerations (especially toilet paper and tampons), some way to charge your phone, and as much of any necessary medication the pharmacy will give you.

The Metcalf sniper attack (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metcalf_sniper_attack), in conjunction with the northeast blackout of 2003 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003), really got me thinking about power. A nice generator has been on the buying list for a while and would have already been purchased if Texas didn't have its own power grid. You can't just buy large power transformers.

[RevolverRob]

It's not only prudent in terms of preparedness, but anyone who regularly feels an obligation towards self-reliance, should be considering how to independently run their home.

[hufnagel]

https://www.harborfreight.com/8750-max-starting7000-running-watts-13-hp-420cc-generator-epa-iii-with-gfci-outlet-protection-63085.html
Still a great buy for a generator. yes you have to add the wheel kit and battery yourself, but if you watch for the right time you'll get that generator for $500 or so.

[NEPAKevin]

Im going to raise the outlets for the pumps to about 5 feet above floor level.

The people that owned my house before me had all sorts of problems with the basement flooding and now that you mention it, the outlets are mounted on the ceiling. The woman selling the house told me that the basement water was because the coal they stored there would get in the sump pump and clog it up. My first thought, that I kept to myself, was "why are you storing coal in a basement that you think is clogging up your sump?" and I built a coal shed. When I first moved in, a guy who is in the septic business pointed out to me that they had the outlet pipe from the sump pump running directly into the drain field and recommended running down hill away from the house. I also noticed that the pipe was not connected well and when it would pop off, the water was pretty much running right back into the basement. Fixed those problems and added a battery back-up pump (https://www.amazon.com/Basement-Watchdog-BWE-Gallons-Emergency/dp/B000NZKR50/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1504812444&sr=1-1&keywords=basement+watchdog) and a dehumidifier, knock on wood, no more indoor swimming pool. Older neighbor who lived in the house as a boy told me his grandparents had a cold cellar fed by an underground stream, so I don't think totally eliminating water is a reasonable expectation.

[Wheeler]

Obviously this will apply to lots of various disasters but the aggregate may be specific to this scenario of a named storm. I'd like to bar, and share, thoughts and lessons learned recently or in real time.

This is the first time I've had to contend with anyone other than myself in this kind of situation. I have myself, a 42 year old woman in good health and fitness, a 9 yeear old girl, a 6 year old girl, a 65+ year old woman with copd, and a 65+ year old man with diabetes and other issues. Plus two ~25 lbs dogs. It's a lot to consider. By myself I would t have the homestead I have now, which means buttoning up would be easier and any eventual bugout would be easier.

Be sure to have an extra supply of meds for those that need them. Especially the COPD sufferer. I'd recommend at least a 30 day supply of the necessary inhalers. If she's on O2 you're going to have issues. You're also going to have issues of shes on a CPAP.


Some home-specific lessons...
1) I will not live in a potential hurricane zone going forward without impact windows, shutters, or both. With 13 windows and 5 French doors, juts on thensingle story main house, it's a whole day to wrestle with the plywood and get it in place, and it takes two of us to do it. The guest house has a second story which further complicates the issue. Once this is over I'll be making arrangements to harden the house, and I kind of don't care what it costs.
2) I am going to begin investigating underground propane. Stays stockpiled by default, and can power a grill indefinitely. If we upgrade to a gas stove then we can cook inside too. And if we choose to get a...
3) generator. I have a small portable unit, but I'm considering a more permanent option. Especially if I have the tank anyway. We are on a well so the generator could power that if it survives...
4) possible we'll equipment enclosure. Ours is a whole-house RO. Requires a 220 circuit for one pump, 110 for the other, and two duplex 20 amps for the other equipment. I'm considering buying or building a pump house for all of it.

With where we live 2 and 3 will get used for more than just storms, and 4 will help to protect the expensive well equipment from Kemal weather wear. 1 should help with electric bills and up resale value. And cut insurance cost.

Generators with any capacity to speak of are fuel hungry beasts. Propane gensets are typically less fuel efficient than gasoline, which are typically less efficient than diesel. Fuel storage is a concern.


Bugging-in
1) collapsible water bottles. We current,y fill every cooler, the tub, every water jug, etc. but if I had ten 5-gallon collapsible jugs stashed at the house it would cost me $100 now and provide a dedicated solution later. We fill the tub too. And we flush toilets with pool water.
2) I just recently pitched a bucket of mountain house Or similar due to suspect storage over the time since I owned it. I need to restock. I doubt I'd ever eat it but it would make me feel better to have it.
3) kind of a house thing, but I've been wanting a chest freezer and now I want one even more. Cheap insurance and ice storage. I have plenty of room for it.

Bugging out
1) guns. I'd like an easier way to transport them inconspicuously. Possible a takedown backpack for a 16" AR and a backpack wit a secret pouch for a pistol. I think Vertx makes both.
2) gas. Given where we live there aren't lot of roads out and gas along those roads gets dicey. I need a couple more 5-gallon cans I can fill early and store in the bed of the truck.
3) secure truck bed. I already started a thread on a rolling bed cover. I want to be able to hide things like gas cans and coolers.

That's enough banging away at thenipad keyboard for now...

[jwperry]

Obviously this will apply to lots of various disasters but the aggregate may be specific to this scenario of a named storm. I'd like to bar, and share, thoughts and lessons learned recently or in real time.

This is the first time I've had to contend with anyone other than myself in this kind of situation. I have myself, a 42 year old woman in good health and fitness, a 9 yeear old girl, a 6 year old girl, a 65+ year old woman with copd, and a 65+ year old man with diabetes and other issues. Plus two ~25 lbs dogs. It's a lot to consider. By myself I would t have the homestead I have now, which means buttoning up would be easier and any eventual bugout would be easier.

Some home-specific lessons...
1) I will not live in a potential hurricane zone going forward without impact windows, shutters, or both. With 13 windows and 5 French doors, juts on thensingle story main house, it's a whole day to wrestle with the plywood and get it in place, and it takes two of us to do it. The guest house has a second story which further complicates the issue. Once this is over I'll be making arrangements to harden the house, and I kind of don't care what it costs.

They make unobtrusive looking automated shutters for the windows on the 2nd floor. Very handy. Sometimes they look like little garage doors, sometimes they look like the classic shutters that close shut...but are made of aluminum and latch.


2) I am going to begin investigating underground propane. Stays stockpiled by default, and can power a grill indefinitely. If we upgrade to a gas stove then we can cook inside too. And if we choose to get a...

Be cautious on the installation. My cousin has one in Orlando and it has a tendency to pop up out of the ground if the LPG volume is low and the water table is high.


3) generator. I have a small portable unit, but I'm considering a more permanent option. Especially if I have the tank anyway. We are on a well so the generator could power that if it survives...

Ever thought of solar? I remember the crime sprees at night in 2004 on the people were running generators. A generator means a couple things: I'm home and I have supplies to stay home. Granted, they do make some very quiet generators now that no one would even know you're running. But if you're thinking of going to a whole home solution or even a partial panel solution, getting it wired into your main breaker box can cost a couple of thousand dollars. I've looked at a Kohler generator that you wouldn't know was running if you were standing right next to it. Again, quality costs...

A couple of other thoughts;
if you have a pool, a water filtration system like a Big Berkey filtration system might be a better long term solution. The filters can get spendy and I don't advocate for using the filters temporarily and then reusing them again years later. Continuous use or toss them when you're finished. Boil water if concerned about BIO contaminants.

The Mountain House & other type foods are OK for folks like us(relatively healthy adults). But the high sodium content might not be very good for people with some medical conditions (like heart issues or diabetes). Standard canned food or dehydrated meats & fruit might be better. We use keep canned food stocked in the house, for emergencies but don't normally eat it. When/if it is approaching the expiration date we either consume it or donate it to the local food bank. Realistically, most canned food is good well after the expiration date as long as the cans aren't damaged, but my wife is paranoid about 'bad food'.

Keep a stock of light medical supplies at the house including basic pain relievers. I know for myself, I have more physical work after storms than I normally do. Back pain or other small ailments can't slow me down, so good N-SAIDs, topical antiseptic, topical painkiller (lidocaine or similar), bug repellents and varying sized bandages are also in my kit.

A willingness to work, a gas chainsaw and some beer really helps neighbors come together after natural disasters.

[XXXsilverXXX]

I moved literally 2 weeks ago from Daytona to Michigan, and when in doubt get out, water, medicine, food and a secure roof matter more then anything else during hurricanes, everything can be replaced except human life, so guns should always take a back seat... Everyone says they can survive if the power goes out or if you can't call 911, that's cool, but most people won't make it 3 days, so why bother with the risk of getting stuck having to go on your roof. ESPECIALLY if you have extremely old, extremely sick or young children. I know all of my family that is left in Florida is taking a lovely vacation north to visit family.
And when you bring stuff priorities are key, clothes, toiletries, medicine, family heirlooms, important documents, and whatever else, but guns and ammo last.

[Malamute]

Be sure to have an extra supply of meds for those that need them. Especially the COPD sufferer. I'd recommend at least a 30 day supply of the necessary inhalers. If she's on O2 you're going to have issues. You're also going to have issues of shes on a CPAP...

Ive seen several discussions about cpaps for camping. Some are using car or other deep cycle batteries, then using an invertor, then using the cpcap house power supply. Most such devices use some lower power than actual 120v AC. The power source probably has a small box where it plugs into the wall, or in the cord. Thats reducing the power and transforming it to DC, If its 12v or lower thats actually powering the unit, there are simple power supply units that will work directly off a car battery. Using an inverter to make 120v from 12v. then making the 120v back into 12v or less is not efficient at all. For less than $20 theres decent quality power sources that adjust for various voltages and have interchangeable tips to match various devices. The car or deep cycle battery could be charged on a running car, or off a generator when its run, even for short periods.

This is the one I got for my ice water pump for my shoulder after surgery so I could run it when driving.

https://www.powerstream.com/dc6.htm

I believe the people using medium sized batteries were getting several days worth of use of their cpap per charge on the battery.

[Joe in PNG]

In regards to unobtrusive gun toteage, a guitar or bass case/ gig bag will work.

As for flooded basements, not a problem in Florida. We tend to not have them.

For coffee fiends, be sure to have a kettle you can heat on your propane grill or other cooking heat source, plus a coffee press, or one of those superslow filter thingys.

Don't forget about the need to do laundry when the power is out. Set aside just a few outfits- a couple for work, and a couple to sleep in. Use a sink or bucket- two is better, one for washing, one for rinsing. Use about a gallon of water, and use about a tablespoon or so of detergent. By hand, agitate and wring one item at a time, then either set it aside, or put into the rinse bucket. Repeat in the rinse bucket, then hang up to dry. A plastic clothes hanger works great if you don't have a clothesline, and those plastic walmart hangers with the clips work great for drying shorts or pants.

[Malamute]

In regards to unobtrusive gun toteage, a guitar or bass case/ gig bag will work.

As for flooded basements, not a problem in Florida. We tend to not have them.

For coffee fiends, be sure to have a kettle you can heat on your propane grill or other cooking heat source, plus a coffee press, or one of those superslow filter thingys.

Don't forget about the need to do laundry when the power is out. Set aside just a few outfits- a couple for work, and a couple to sleep in. Use a sink or bucket- two is better, one for washing, one for rinsing. Use about a gallon of water, and use about a tablespoon or so of detergent. By hand, agitate and wring one item at a time, then either set it aside, or put into the rinse bucket. Repeat in the rinse bucket, then hang up to dry. A plastic clothes hanger works great if you don't have a clothesline, and those plastic walmart hangers with the clips work great for drying shorts or pants.

I hand wash some things if I dont feel like going to town. Its not a big ordeal if you do small amounts at a time and dont let it get away from you. Small plastic tubs or containers work OK for laundry also. 2 gallon bucket is nice for small amounts.

A friend that moved to Alaska said she used a (new) toilet plunger for laundry, it saved a lot of hand work.

[Stephanie B]

Yea sometimes you're the dog and someone else is wagging your tail. :D

In my hypothetical hurricane area home, I'd have a high flow dirty water pump (https://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-212cc-gasoline-engine-semi-trash-water-pump-158-gpm-63405.html) waiting near-line to start running if/when the sumps fail to keep up. I'd deliberately use an engine powered one (possibly with a propane conversion unit on it) since if you're in that big a water problem you're probably hurting for other things like electric.

If someone offers you a deal on a Hale P250 pump, run like hell in the other direction.

[rob_s]

Interesting discussion. I should say that I'm a native Floridian of nearly 43 years, with the last 16 in the SE. I'm certainly not new to any of this. More than specific advice (particularly from this unaffected) I am interested in doscussion among and from those similarly potentially affected. Most of what I listed in the first post were/are musings or ideas as we look down the barrel, and largely not having done any or all of them is a function of cost. Cost that I'm

[RevolverRob]

I am interested in doscussion among and from those similarly potentially affected.

Don't live where there are hurricanes? :o

Okay, more realistically, preparedness for natural disasters is actually much the same anywhere, be it hurricane, thunderstorms, flash floods, wild fires, or blizzards. And even better, it's not far off from what one would want to do during man-made disasters. And this is National Preparedness Month!

I like storm shelters. Interior, underground or even exterior is okay. The modular storm-shelter setups like the Atlas Safe Rooms are great if you need to ride out the heart of the storm - http://atlassaferooms.com/safe-rooms/ - And they can double as your gun safe/gun room. Are they expensive? Yes. But not any more expensive than the medical bills after a tornado and insurance covers the house damage. It's also cheaper to install a modular safe room than it is to beef up windows and home infrastructure to make the house storm-proof (and again can serve double-duty as a gun room).

[Grey]

In terms of doing laundry, I'd highly suggest getting some antimicrobial stuff like ExOfficio. Rinse well and youre good to go.

[Chance]

Someone already mentioned solar, and I'm curious: if the grid goes down, does solar continue to power your house? Can it power your entire house, or just certain appliances?

A number of folks in our neighborhood have solar panels installed on their roof. We've been considering it for a while.


FWIW (and I'm hesitant to post this because it feels douchy), PF is Mountain House (https://www.mountainhouse.com/) affiliate -- if you click that link and then buy some stuff, PF will get a small commission.

Douche.

I do like Mountain House though. It's so editable I've cracked a few open and ate them because I was too lazy to procure food by any other means.

[JHC]

Assuming for the moment the cellular networks are down or overloaded. Are the common hand held two way radios useful for intra-team comms? I tried a few sets some years ago and found them pretty spotty in hilly terrain.

What is the best comm setup that doesn't rely on cell service?

[Malamute]

Someone already mentioned solar, and I'm curious: if the grid goes down, does solar continue to power your house? Can it power your entire house, or just certain appliances?

A number of folks in our neighborhood have solar panels installed on their roof. We've been considering it for a while...

There are different types of solar setups. If you only push excess power back into the grid (net metering), then you would only have power when the sun is shining. If you are storing your solar produced power in batteries (and the batteries, individually and the total amount required, are fairly expensive), then you are more independent and can use power at night without grid access. How much you can run depends on the number of panels you have and their production capacity. If you want to use completely normal 120v appliances for everything, then you need more production capability. If you have low voltage lighting and appliances, you can get by with less production, but all the appliances cost more up front. Thats the thumbnail idea.

[Chance]

There are different types of solar setups. If you only push excess power back into the grid (net metering), then you would only have power when the sun is shining. If you are storing your solar produced power in batteries (and the batteries, individually and the total amount required, are fairly expensive), then you are more independent and can use power at night without grid access. How much you can run depends on the number of panels you have and their production capacity. If you want to use completely normal 120v appliances for everything, then you need more production capability. If you have low voltage lighting and appliances, you can get by with less production, but all the appliances cost more up front. Thats the thumbnail idea.

Interesting. Would you happen to know of reputable companies that offer such a service? I've Googled around, and there's several, but given the related expense, I'd like to know what I'm getting into.

[Malamute]

Interesting. Would you happen to know of reputable companies that offer such a service? I've Googled around, and there's several, but given the related expense, I'd like to know what I'm getting into.

I do not know of any particular companies.

I built a solar system for a cabin that was off the power grid at the time, so learned the basics of that at the time. I also know a couple people that have net metering systems and storage systems. A full house system with storage was about $30K in the early 1990s IIRC. A net metering system about 5 or 6 years ago cost another person I know about $30K. Storage adds considerably to the cost. A friend got into the solar contracting biz, but hes in Az, so wouldnt be of much help elsewhere.

Id search out a couple forums on solar power and see which seemed the most informative and user friendly and start reading to learn the basics, then start asking questions. One cabin building site I visit has a fair amount of solar info, but its not organized, it may be hard to search. Once you have some basic understanding of the basics and start to know the right questions to ask, you will be a better position as a potential consumer of the industry. Thats the best I can offer.

Yes, generators can be expensive to run for very long, but dont cost much not to run once installed. Solar has a certain amount of up front cost, but can reduce or eliminate your electric bill, but with batteries theres a certain amount of cost over time to buy new batteries as they start to wear out. Getting a long term projection of cost, best and worse case scenarios, would probably be a good idea, rather than focusing just on the "Free Power!" part. It aint all free once the system is up and going. There are equipment failures, batteries wearing out or failing, etc.

[Wheeler]

Ive seen several discussions about cpaps for camping. Some are using car or other deep cycle batteries, then using an invertor, then using the cpcap house power supply. Most such devices use some lower power than actual 120v AC. The power source probably has a small box where it plugs into the wall, or in the cord. Thats reducing the power and transforming it to DC, If its 12v or lower thats actually powering the unit, there are simple power supply units that will work directly off a car battery. Using an inverter to make 120v from 12v. then making the 120v back into 12v or less is not efficient at all. For less than $20 theres decent quality power sources that adjust for various voltages and have interchangeable tips to match various devices. The car or deep cycle battery could be charged on a running car, or off a generator when its run, even for short periods.

This is the one I got for my ice water pump for my shoulder after surgery so I could run it when driving.

https://www.powerstream.com/dc6.htm

I believe the people using medium sized batteries were getting several days worth of use of their cpap per charge on the battery.

That's all good info. Thanks for sharing that.

[Malamute]

If in true desperation situation, any functioning 12v battery could be borrowed for the cpap. Lawn mower, motorycycle, cars not able to be used at the moment. Obviously, having a decent battery and means of charging it would be best. Improvise as required, once one owns the adapter.

Each device should have its power requirements on a tag somewhere, and its normal power cord should have its input and output power on a tag on the transformer/converter thing. It probably requires magnifying glasses, but should be there. Once you know the devices actual power requirement you can figure out how to get an alternate supply source that will work. People good at math can figure out from the devices power use info, and the info on the website for the little converter I linked to and figure out how long each battery type should last. Batteries also have info available on their normal output capabilities.

[Wheeler]

Solar systems are expensive. The technology still isn't dialed in but, it's slowly improving and getting cheaper. Around here the fire departments and electrical inspectors will push you pretty hard to go to a co-gen, what Malamute was referring to as a net metering system. They don't want to deal with the hassle of batteries and poisonous gas.

You're looking at serious big bucks to run an entire house with 'normal' appliances. Many folks will go with a propane powered fridge/freezer and low voltage task lighting throughout the home. It's really a lifestyle change compared to what we as electrical consumers are used to.

[Malamute]

Agree with all above. It is a lifestyle for the most part. Making it as "normal" as possible raises the price.

Solar is quite viable as a stand=alone system, but is not cheap to do so. Thats a big part of the situation now, its still developing and maturing as a technology and becoming closer to being more practical for general full time use, but isnt quite there yet. Some folks feel its a worthwhile investment, but in the true sense of investment, it would take a long time to actually realize a financial benefit. Its more a moral and social benefit for many. It just isnt quite at prime time level for most of us.

[farscott]

Assuming for the moment the cellular networks are down or overloaded. Are the common hand held two way radios useful for intra-team comms? I tried a few sets some years ago and found them pretty spotty in hilly terrain.

What is the best comm setup that doesn't rely on cell service?

The best (in terms of what you get for what you have to pay) is probably the amateur 2-meter, 6-meter, and 10-meter bands. Something like the Yaesu VX-8DR covers the 6-meter, 2-meter, 440MHz, and weather bands in a small water resistant package. One of those is about $350, so you are looking at a decent investment plus the effort to get the Novice (Technician) amateur license.

I am a bit of a radio snob, so I run Motorola public safety radios. Those radios will take a beating and do a decent job in tough conditions. They incorporate some of the lessons learned about the shortfalls of older radio technologies during the 9/11 event in both NYC and Washington, D.C. These radios are significantly more costly and are not easy to purchase in terms of both cost (figure $4000 per radio) and hoops to jump through. On the plus side, they transmit digitally and the channels can be encrypted plus the radio can be used as multiple WiFi hotspots. The Motorola APX 8000 series is amazing. Programming these radios is a pain as one needs a PC program called CPS that Motorola allows only licensed dealers to have.

Older Motorola 2-m and 440 MHz radios like the HT-1000 are excellent values if you can find decent batteries and the chargers for them. They also require CPS for programming, but are darn near indestructible.

[peterb]

The best (in terms of what you get for what you have to pay) is probably the amateur 2-meter, 6-meter, and 10-meter bands. Something like the Yaesu VX-8DR covers the 6-meter, 2-meter, 440MHz, and weather bands in a small water resistant package. One of those is about $350, so you are looking at a decent investment plus the effort to get the Novice amateur license.
.

If you're ok with 2-meter only, the FT-270R is a nice weather-resistant unit for half that price. http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=DisplayProducts&ProdCatID=111&encProdID=87CE6C1FF54D5BBCA7F39179AB3B1511

Antennas make a huge difference in the effectiveness of any radio. The standard "rubber ducks" on handhelds give up a lot of efficiency for durability and compactness. For vehicle use an inexpensive magnet-mount antenna on the roof can make a big difference in how your handheld performs. http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1721

For the radio tinkerers: I've made a couple of these as home antennas for my handhelds. Seem to work well.
http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/products/basestationantenna/basestationantenna.htm

[hufnagel]

Chance: you want to go research grid-tied vs. off-grid vs. hybrid. I'm looking into doing a hybrid setup. The basic gist is it allows you to pull grid power, solar power, and battery power into a cohesive unit, and maximize your options. The panels will supply house power as well as charge the batteries (assuming enough sunlight,) which will then be drained during the night. If/when the batteries are depleted it'll switch over to grid power automatically until the panels have recharged the batteries. If you size everything properly (and can afford it!) you'll minimize the draw from the grid. The other benefit is the system will function even with the grid down, something that normal grid-tied panels cannot do. There's a retarded amount of information out there and you'll go blind reading it all, but it'll at least teach you what you need to know. :D

[TGS]

The best (in terms of what you get for what you have to pay) is probably the amateur 2-meter, 6-meter, and 10-meter bands. Something like the Yaesu VX-8DR covers the 6-meter, 2-meter, 440MHz, and weather bands in a small water resistant package. One of those is about $350, so you are looking at a decent investment plus the effort to get the Novice (Technician) amateur license.

I am a bit of a radio snob, so I run Motorola public safety radios. Those radios will take a beating and do a decent job in tough conditions. They incorporate some of the lessons learned about the shortfalls of older radio technologies during the 9/11 event in both NYC and Washington, D.C. These radios are significantly more costly and are not easy to purchase in terms of both cost (figure $4000 per radio) and hoops to jump through. On the plus side, they transmit digitally and the channels can be encrypted plus the radio can be used as multiple WiFi hotspots. The Motorola APX 8000 series is amazing. Programming these radios is a pain as one needs a PC program called CPS that Motorola allows only licensed dealers to have.

Older Motorola 2-m and 440 MHz radios like the HT-1000 are excellent values if you can find decent batteries and the chargers for them. They also require CPS for programming, but are darn near indestructible.

What advantage does a premium P25 radio like the APX 8000 or Harris Unity give to a non-professional user? Can you even use the functionality given you're not linked in through the government systems?

Honestly curious. We just switched to the APX 8000, but just like cops carry guns but aren't gun guys, I have an APX 8000 but that doesn't mean I really know much about them....

[Hambo]

FWIW (and I'm hesitant to post this because it feels douchy), PF is Mountain House (https://www.mountainhouse.com/) affiliate -- if you click that link and then buy some stuff, PF will get a small commission.

It is douchy, but it's one of the few useful suggestions in this thread. Dudes, a large percentage of what has been suggested here is impossible, crazy expensive, or just plain crazy. If you're smart you keep 1-2 weeks of food, which isn't hard. You get shutters and extra hardware. You get extra water, a Goal Zero charger, and whatever odds and ends you like. Hunker down when you can or when you have to. Leave when you must. And when you leave, leave with the understanding that all the shit in your house if worthless. What matters most lives and breathes and has a seat in the car with you.

I probably won't have power for PFestivus, so consider this my rant.

[peterb]

The Mountain House & other type foods are OK for folks like us(relatively healthy adults). But the high sodium content might not be very good for people with some medical conditions (like heart issues or diabetes). Standard canned food or dehydrated meats & fruit might be better. We use keep canned food stocked in the house, for emergencies but don't normally eat it. When/if it is approaching the expiration date we either consume it or donate it to the local food bank. Realistically, most canned food is good well after the expiration date as long as the cans aren't damaged, but my wife is paranoid about 'bad food'.


If you have room you can set up a rotating stock shelf for anything with a long shelf life. Buy a few extra of stuff you'd normally eat, or wouldn't mind eating. Every time you take a can off the front of the shelf put that on your shopping list and add the new one to the back. That way you don't have a pile of "emergency food" expiring all at once.

[farscott]

What advantage does a premium P25 radio like the APX 8000 or Harris Unity give to a non-professional user? Can you even use the functionality given you're not linked in through the government systems?

Honestly curious. We just switched to the APX 8000, but just like cops carry guns but aren't gun guys, I have an APX 8000 but that doesn't mean I really know much about them....

There is some of the functionality that I cannot use, namely transmit and receive the public safety comms that are encrypted. But I can listen to the non-encrypted stuff and I can turn the radio into a beacon that can summon help as it can transmit its GPS location. I can also create my own networks, including encrypted and Internet-connected networks, on the frequencies that I am authorized to use. The radio, in a real emergency, could be (and would be) reprogrammed by the local public safety for their use. There are never enough radios to go around when stuff goes south; this would be another one.

But, for me, it really is a bit of a toy. I get paid to mess with this stuff, and this is an extension of my professional interests. I also have a ton of older Motorola radios, going back to the Sabre System III.

[Hambo]

It's not about you or Mountain House, it's about the more crazy stuff.

[TGS]

There is some of the functionality that I cannot use, namely transmit and receive the public safety comms that are encrypted. But I can listen to the non-encrypted stuff and I can turn the radio into a beacon that can summon help as it can transmit its GPS location. I can also create my own networks, including encrypted and Internet-connected networks, on the frequencies that I am authorized to use.

With the exception of VHF/UHF/digital/analog/trunked interoperability, is this different than the immensely cheaper portable/pocket sized ham radios that create "radio" comms using VOIP or whatever?

One of my groomsmen is big into ham radios. Loves'em so much he walks around with one of those little wallet sized ones in his bail out bag, plus one mounted in his vehicle, plus a base station at home....

[David S.]

The Survival Podcast: Evaluation of Prepping for the New and Seasoned Alike (http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/eval-of-prepping) 1h:45m. Skip ahead to 8ish minutes get to the main topic.

He has similar episodes and other episodes that break down each individual step if you want to get deeper. Interesting to note that he considers "typical prepper items" like generators, MRE's and Mountain House to be advanced preps. Not appropriate until you have the more basic needs he describes already met.




What are your primary risks
What is commonality of disaster
The inverse relationship between impact scale and probability
How you evaluate your weaknesses
- Food
- Water
- Shelter
- Energy
- Security
- Communications
- Health and Sanitation
- Financial/Economics
- Recovery Risks
- Transportation
Getting things off the ground
- Just start with copy canning and a “deep pantry”
- Store at least 50 gallons of water, it is too cheap not to
- Make sure you have a place to go if your home is compromised
- Make sure you can fix basic problems in your home
- Have a black out kit, build a simple battery back up, get a generator
- Store gas, rotate it, build your storage over time
- Have portable heaters and fans
- Know your neighbors
- Practice situational awareness and OPSEC
- Get firearms training, have a means of defense for everyone
- Have well understood procedures for threats before they happen
- Have a get out of the house and meet up plan
- Every family member should have the info of every other family member
- Have radios, consider two way radios as well
- Have a way to deal with waste
- Keep a good med kit
- Keep extra maintenance meds
- Take care of yourself
- Exercise mentally and physically
- Save money, get out of debt
- Know your investments, practice real diversity
- Have good insurances
- Think about how you would cope with a
-- Minor loss
-- Major loss
-- Total loss
- Keep vehicles maintained
- Have a basic working knowledge of vehicles
- Have simple extra parts on hand and tools
- Plan to take extra fuel with you
- Have multiple routes planned and document for evac
In the end, this makes you more prepared than 99% of Americans
Remember the two most important things you can do in life are learn and teach

[farscott]

With the exception of VHF/UHF/digital/analog/trunked interoperability, is this different than the immensely cheaper portable/pocket sized ham radios that create "radio" comms using VOIP or whatever?

One of my groomsmen is big into ham radios. Loves'em so much he walks around with one of those little wallet sized ones in his bail out bag, plus one mounted in his vehicle, plus a base station at home....

In terms of what it can do, not much difference. In terms of how well it will perform in horrible (wet, very hot, very cold, explosive gas) environments, the Motorola product is superior. It is just more durable and designed for the abuse it will see in public service. Like I said, I am a radio snob. I will also admit that Motorola charges as much as they do because the main customer is fed.gov and/or state.gov and the production volumes are small. The radio is not worth $4,000, and I paid essentially nothing for my samples.

[jwperry]

Someone already mentioned solar, and I'm curious: if the grid goes down, does solar continue to power your house? Can it power your entire house, or just certain appliances?

A number of folks in our neighborhood have solar panels installed on their roof. We've been considering it for a while.


Not enough to power the whole house. There are also some safety problems with producing enough solar to feed back onto the grid; if the grid has failed mechanically and you're not isolated you have the potential to electrocute people working on repairing said grid....or so I've heard. The setup my old boss has utilizes a split breaker box in his house and enough battery power to run most of his house for 48 hours. But, he was the boss and fairly wealthy and that setup put him back quite a bit.

The solar panels I have are from harbor freight and produce very limited amperage with no battery storage. They work for my purposes (which is keeping a cooler cold while at the beach, on a boat or camping) and will work in a pinch (like power outage due to hurricane) but aren't really a long term solution.

[RevolverRob]

If you're smart you keep 1-2 weeks of food, which isn't hard. You get shutters and extra hardware. You get extra water, a Goal Zero charger, and whatever odds and ends you like. Hunker down when you can or when you have to. Leave when you must. And when you leave, leave with the understanding that all the shit in your house if worthless. What matters most lives and breathes and has a seat in the car with you.

I agree.

Except to add on the water front - Water - 1-gallon of drinking water, per person, per day is the necessary amount. Plus water for cooking. You should be capable of storing 2-weeks of those needs. And ideally your backup will be a filtration system capable of filtering the necessary daily amount.

RE: cost, I've been developing a plan for years to build an off-grid house and my current price estimate puts it at just about double the cost of building a traditional on-grid home within a given area. And that's building ground-up. Conversions cost more to do.

The one game changer in cost could be the Tesla Powerwall - https://www.tesla.com/powerwall - The price and size of this system will make it the most palatable battery type storage system for your home. But it isn't here yet...so it doesn't much matter.

[jwperry]

RevolverRob

As opposed to a complete off the grid house, have you considered an RV with supplemental support building? My mentor at work is approaching retirement and that's his "off the grid" living arrangement.

[RevolverRob]

RevolverRob

As opposed to a complete off the grid house, have you considered an RV with supplemental support building? My mentor at work is approaching retirement and that's his "off the grid" living arrangement.

I've considered a number of approaches, but I'm young enough that I can build an off-grid home sized to my needs, mortgage it, and pay it off, before I retire.

For older folks - The conceptual idea of an off-grid "Tiny Home" https://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/ is a damn good one!

Also, for retrofits/conversions, the Tesla Powerwall would be the go-to approach. You can supplement it with solar panels, but also charge it via grid power. The initial idea Tesla had for the Powerwall was something like, "It charges during the day when energy costs are low and discharges at night when energy costs are higher." Think of it like a battery supplement for power consumption. This reduces grid load in general and reduces overall energy costs for the Powerwall owner, a win-win for a power hungry world.

I think it's an excellent idea, my long-term concern is the stability of a Li-Ion battery mounted on the side of my house...

[Stephanie B]

The bad thing about solar is that a storm with high winds may rip the panels from your roof. Or, if the disaster you're prepping for is a bad earthquake, same problem, in a way.

A friend of mine went for solar. But her issue is winter storms and, if it's a bad one, the snow may be deep enough so she can easily clean the panels.

My parents had a goodly-sized generator with an automatic switch (that also isolated the system from the mains). Their issue was a bad thunderstorm within a few miles could (and did) knock out power. Some years, it ran five hours under load. One year was over 100 hours.

No power in the winter is a brutal situation in and of itself.

[Malamute]

One of the people I know with a fairly extensive solar array lives in an area that gets 125 mph winds,...but,...its at 4500 ft elevation, so its not as destructive as those wind speeds at sea level. He hasnt lost any panels so far. 5 or 6 years I believe.

[Grey]

Curious how people are storing water? Packs of bottles, gallon jugs, water brick style system?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[holmes168]

For overall prepping- the LDS guide cannot be beat. e en has a fairly easy to follow food purchasing guide. Highly recommended. We are looking to move out of Texas in 18 months to our retirement place. I've still got 20 years to retire, but want to find our last place and ensure we are ready for the zombie apocalypse.

Also- my best friend lives in Florida- he had zero preparations in place- I just don't get it.

[farscott]

Curious how people are storing water? Packs of bottles, gallon jugs, water brick style system?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

We use a combination of methods, and buy packs of bottles and water brick style. We have water bottles that can be frozen ahead of a storm and others for drinking. In the event of an extended power outage, the frozen water bottles can be used to keep stuff, like food and medicines, cold. We also use Sawyer water filters and a propane burner (to boil water) if we have to deal with contaminated water. The people who make the All American Canner offer a lid that is set up to run the unit as an autoclave. That one is on my "nice-to-have" list.

[Soggy]

Curious how people are storing water? Packs of bottles, gallon jugs, water brick style system?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Mainly 2.5 gallon 'bricks' from the supermarket, rotated as necessary. Also have 1 gallon containers, a couple of which are in the garage freezer to help keep it cold in case of a power outage.

A note on the 1 gallon sizes: The 'milk jug' style are not suitable for long term storage. They will eventually leak. Make sure you get the ones that have the thicker plastic like the 2.5 gallon sizes.

If we blow through the store bought water I have a big filter, a bunch of little filters (life straws), and a "steripen" type uv purifier.

Thinking about getting a "water bob" when they are back in stock at reasonable prices https://www.amazon.com/WaterBOB-Emergency-Drinking-Storage-Gallons/dp/B001AXLUX2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504878153&sr=8-1&keywords=water+bob

[rob_s]

s).

Thinking about getting a "water bob" when they are back in stock at reasonable prices https://www.amazon.com/WaterBOB-Emergency-Drinking-Storage-Gallons/dp/B001AXLUX2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504878153&sr=8-1&keywords=water+bob

I was not familiar with that product. I'm adding that to my "must haves" for future prep.

[Grey]

Thanks for the replies, looking to bolster my stores as power outages are common due to all the trees.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[Soggy]

I was not familiar with that product. I'm adding that to my "must haves" for future prep.

If I recall the 'normal' price was under 30 bucks.

[RJ]

Curious how people are storing water? Packs of bottles, gallon jugs, water brick style system?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

Saw this idea of freezing water in zip lok bags as a cheap substitute for drinking water, as well as to extend the length your freezer items might last after an outage:

19747

[flyrodr]

Curious how people are storing water? Packs of bottles, gallon jugs, water brick style system?

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

One way is the smaller collapsable containers, which can fit into a handy space, and be opened/filled as needed. We used to use this brand to collect water samples for analyses when I was working:http://www.hedwin.com/products/cubitainer

Plus, they fit into vehicles spaces, backpacks, etc. for those unplanned (or planned) times when you need water for a radiator, camping, etc. There are optional spigots, hoses, etc. available.

[scw2]

Saw this idea of freezing water in zip lok bags as a cheap substitute for drinking water, as well as to extend the length your freezer items might last after an outage:

19747

That should make your freezer more efficient in normal times, correct?

[RJ]

RevolverRob

As opposed to a complete off the grid house, have you considered an RV with supplemental support building? My mentor at work is approaching retirement and that's his "off the grid" living arrangement.

Just a few comments on "off the grid" RV living.

My wife and I have been on extended travel in an RV since February.

For those considering an RV as a 'bug out' vehicle, I thought I would add some figures for our rig for planning purposes.

These days, most RVs will use the same equipment suppliers for the appliances. We're at the larger end of TTs. Here's what we have:

- 54 gallon fresh water tank
- 39 gallon black/39 gallon gray tank
- 7 cu ft absorptive fridge freezer
- 3 burner propane stove
- 15,000 btu furnace
- 2 55W solar panels and single stage charger
- 2 40# propane tanks
- 2 AGM 12V batteries, approx 200 Ah usable capacity
- 1,000 Watt inverter
- Propane powers the fridge, stove, and furnace
- All lights, fans, water pump and furnace run on 12V

Our trailer is around 7,800# camping ready, and I tow it with a 2500 diesel truck.

Hope this helps add to the options.

[Guerrero]

That should make your freezer more efficient in normal times, correct?Having a freezer full of anything frozen will make it more efficient in normal times, but frozen liquid works better.

[JHC]

Funny because of my guns, shooting, hunting, beard . . . friends think I'm some advanced prepper. I'm not! I've picked up some great tips here. Thanks all.

Esp re the comms. "All we really do is shoot, move and communicate" was a key lesson in my mil education that in abstract applies to almost everything. Will look into those "pocket ham" sets.

[rob_s]

Just a few comments on "off the grid" RV living.

My wife and I have been on extended travel in an RV since February.

For those considering an RV as a 'bug out' vehicle, I thought I would add some figures for our rig for planning purposes.

These days, most RVs will use the same equipment suppliers for the appliances. We're at the larger end of TTs. Here's what we have:

- 54 gallon fresh water tank
- 39 gallon black/39 gallon gray tank
- 7 cu ft absorptive fridge freezer
- 3 burner propane stove
- 15,000 btu furnace
- 2 55W solar panels and single stage charger
- 2 40# propane tanks
- 2 AGM 12V batteries, approx 200 Ah usable capacity
- 1,000 Watt inverter
- Propane powers the fridge, stove, and furnace
- All lights, fans, water pump and furnace run on 12V

Our trailer is around 7,800# camping ready, and I tow it with a 2500 diesel truck.

Hope this helps add to the options.

What's your range on a full tank of fuel?

ETA: I'm an idiot. Now I see you're in a trailer. However, I'm still curious as to your tow vehicle, normal range without trailer, and impact on range when loaded and towing.

[RJ]

What's your range on a full tank of fuel?

ETA: I'm an idiot. Now I see you're in a trailer. However, I'm still curious as to your tow vehicle, normal range without trailer, and impact on range when loaded and towing.

TV is a 2016 Ram 2500 4x4 Crew Cab short bed with Cummins 6.7l Diesel.

Fully loaded when towing, we can make 320-340 miles 'comfortably' on a tank. This is where the 'range' predicts about 60 miles to E. Filling up at this point usually takes around 28g. Truck has a 32g tank.

Mpg ranges from 11.0 (mountain) to 15.0 (flat) towing.

Unladen truck can get 21.0-22.0 highway, 15.0-16.0 in town. On a full tank unladen range can read as high as 450-500 miles.

'Range' is a running average over several tankfuls.

[NEPAKevin]

There's a retarded amount of information out there and you'll go blind reading it all, but it'll at least teach you what you need to know. :D

One other concern re getting into Solar, which IIRC I read on a WSJ tweet, is that the less expensive panels are likely to be adversely effected should the administration decide to act on its America First talk about China and tread and implement import quotas and tariffs.

[David S.]

Water. Do you drink soda, juice, Arizona iced tea? Does anyone you know. They are available in 2L-1gal bottles that are very reusable, durable, stashable, and portable. . Collect them, sanatize them and fill them with filtered tap water. I make home hard apple cider from apple juice purchased from Costco. Lots of bottles to up-cycle. I also keep a few 5 gallon water cooler bottles around.

[Chance]

A Rainwater HOG (http://www.rainwaterhog.com) might be something to consider, once you have luxury of setting it up. You can skip the first three minutes of the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KQwrxNUejA#action=share

[hufnagel]

the hogs are definitely nice from a packaging standpoint, but man they're not cheap.

[Soggy]

One other little prep item I bought as a back up to my back up: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0125U36Q2/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There are a lot of 'rocket' type stoves out there, but this one had good reviews on amazon, and was a lightning deal for 15 bucks, so I bit.

Have not used it yet, but for 15 bucks it gives me piece of mind that if we lose natural gas (unlikely), and then run out of propane and charcoal (which would require a major catastrophe), I can still heat water / cook something. Would also be good for a bug out kit, but I don't plan on bugging out unless the area is radioactive.

[El Cid]

Is that to give the water somewhere to go and not destroy your main level?


That would be where my thoughts would be. Give it someplace to go, where I can also be pumping it out. I've been through storms at mom's house where the sump pump was pumping water out barely faster than it was coming in. We used to joke that if it flooded ONE MORE TIME we'd just turn it into an indoor swimming pool. :D

That might work for a busted water pipe in the house/yard, or someone running over a hydrant. But if the house on the left has a basement and the one on the right doesn't... the one with the basement just has twice as much water inside it.

http://media.propertycasualty360.com/propertycasualty360/article/2017/08/29/harvey-flooded-homes-spring-tx-davidjphillip-ap172.jpg

[TDA]

I'm fairly sure this will be handy for residents, although it's advice I got as a relief worker. Stock up on some cough drops/throat lozenges. After the storm, you're going to talk a lot more. You'll talk to your neighbors, firemen, the police, the red cross, the salvation army, reporters, the national guard, your insurance, your pastor, FEMA, southern baptist disaster relief, and on and on. In about three days you'll loose your voice. Cough drops will help.

[Aray]

Treating and drinking swimming pool water is beyond sketchy. Algacides, stabilizers, pH adjusters, etc will have likely built up and will not be reliably removed by normal austere treatment methods. Use it to flush toilets, bathe and such.

[Lester Polfus]

Copied and pasted the stuff below the break from this thread on TPI (http://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum/showthread.php?p=106414#post106414). The writer is a former Emergency Management employee for a major metropolitan water system.

_______________________________

Finally, something that is at least marginally in my lane. Up until recently I worked for a large municipal water agency.

First, most of the treatments, filters, and purifiers out there do a much better job of sterilizing the water of micro-organisms than they do of getting rid of chemicals, so I would always prefer to stay away from water you suspect might be contaminated with chemicals, as opposed to just growing micro-organisms.

A little area knowledge will go a long way. If you live in an even medium sized urban area, you can probably find out a bunch about your areas purification/filtration, pumping and distribution system on the internet. Many agencies will have a clean water fair or other public event from time to time where people will be happy to talk about the water system with you. People love to talk about what they do.

One thing you want to figure out is whether your community has a fire main system that is run off the potable water system, or is separate. In an emergency, one priority in any city is the ability to fight fires. If they are separate systems, keeping the fire main system pressurized will take priority over the potable system. Firewater isn't treated to drinking water standards, but a little research of the source may tell you whether you want to crack open a fire hydrant and try to treat what comes out.
Your jurisdiction will have an emergency plan that prioritizes restoration of service to hospitals, government buildings and such first, until we get to residential customers who are at the end of the line. There are often plans for emergency water distribution via trucks and distribution stations. Most plans are matters of public record.

Different emergencies will affect the system in different ways. Power outages will affect pressure in some areas that aren’t' gravity fed, but many systems will have generators and such at key pump stations to provide at least a minimal level of flow. Earthquakes may break mains leaving one area of town without water, but their might be water a few blocks away. After an earthquake, water in the system may be declared non-potable due to main breaks, but if I had a choice between trying to purify and drink stale water from a potentially compromised main and water that came from a pond full of pesticide run off, I'd take the stale water any day.

A quick definition: "stale" water is water that has formerly been treated to drinking water standards, but has sat for so long that the chloramine residuals have lowered to the point that it no longer meets drinking water standards. It's a fairly easy to freshen it up to drinkability, by treating, filtering, or even boiling. In a pinch, given a choice between drinking stale municipal water, or something from another source, I'd just drink it.



Odds are that you live within a mile or two of some sort of storage tank, cistern, or reservoir. The water inside can keep for quite a while before the chlorine residual gets so low it gets stale and would be suspect to drink. However, even after that, I would far rather try to make it potable than something I got out of a creek.

Getting water out of one of those places can be a challenge, as you might have a 21” or larger main running in and out of it. What you want to look for is a little tap where a water quality inspector would come and draw off a little water for lab testing. In many jurisdictions they are locked inside a little box with a padlock on the outside. Most of them will look just like a tap for a garden hose. They are at the bottom of an elevated tanks, so even without power, you will get plenty of pressure from gravity in most systems.

All water distributions systems are different. They are shaped by the supply, geography and politics of their jurisdiction, but they all tend to have a large amount of water in storage. Most emergencies present distribution problems before they present supply problems, so you can give your self a heads up by understanding the distribution system.

During any disaster the unsung heros are public works employees who work for the gas, power, water and transportation companies. They are out there putting all the shit back together that Godzilla broke, often with far less support and certainly less defensive tools than the emergency services guys have.

Making friends with them ahead of time would be good. If you happen to encounter them after shit hits the fan, say a guy or group of guys stationed at one of those water tanks or pumping stations, anything you could do to help them out would probably be very appreciated. Some of them are hip to having a 72-hour kit, most of them aren't. So an MRE, some batteries, some dry socks, something like that might get you as much water as you brought containers to carry it in.

More and more cities and counties are providing internet links to the government GIS systems.

Here in Portland you can use it to look up every last water system main, valve, pump station and tank. It's basically a complete schematic of the system.

In a way it bothers me, because people with ill intent can find that sort of information really useful. But on the other hand, public infrastructure systems like that were never really designed with secrecy in mind, so bad people would find it pretty trivial to get the information anyway. The internet GIS thing just makes it easier for the good people to get the same information.

[willie]

People who choose to remain at home can buy a couple very large plastic garbage cans with lids and fill them up with tap water. This supply is a short term solution for having access to water for bathing, flushing toilets, pets, or even drinking if proper steps are taken to make it potable.

About copd patients. Many will suffer from continued exposure to high humidity in non air conditioned environments. Another aggravation for them is exposure to mold in flooded housing.

[andre3k]

I can only come with advice from someone that has suffered through a few hurricanes including Harvey. As far as generators go I think ideally a natural gas one that's plumbed into your house lines are best. I've yet to see a situation where natural gas service was disrupted during a hurricane. If you don't have natural gas service then a large propane tank might be your next best option.

However, my 10kw portable did just fine taking care of my wife and kids during 3 days without power for Harvey. It would have worked well for a few more days but for an extended time w/o power I would prefer a whole home genset. We were even able to run a line to my neighbors house when their genset wouldn't start.

As far as food, I would only go for the prepackaged MRE type stuff unless I absolutely had to. My wife coupons and can stretch a dollar quite far. Buy meat when it's on sale and put it in the deep freezer. Same with bread, as it freezes great as well. Stock up on what you would normally eat because that is what will keep you on good spirits in a bad situation. A charcoal grill and electric griddle is a must. Between those two you can almost fix any meal you would want.

Instead of rushing to the store to buy bottle water right before a storm buy one gallon or larger jugs of water throughout the year and instead of throwing them away save them. Just fill them up and freeze them when the time comes.

Have a chainsaw and tools available for the cleanup afterwards is always a must but most people have these already. Disaster preparedness doesn't have to be expensive. Buy whenever you see a good deal even if you think you won't need it immediately. Preparing for this stuff is a continuous process not just something you do when a storm is coming your way.


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[TGS]

Water storage was touched on.

For those of you living in apartments, check out Water-Bricks as a robust, smaller, stackable 3.5 gallon alternative to the 7 gallon Aqua-tainers. I have the Aquatainers (which shouldn't be stacked), but the Aqua-Bricks can go underneath furniture, possibly in the dead space underneath the last drawer of a dresser, stuffed in those cabinets above the fridge that nobody uses because they're inconvenient for regular use items. I even saw a picture where someone stacked them to create the base for a coffee table instead of using legs.

It's an expensive option to first purchase, but don't think you're fucked simply because you don't have a house and can't fit 3 55 gallon drums or one of those awesome 260 gallon caged tanks that you can get for free from industrial surplus. If you have to bug out, they're also more portable, manageable, and more robust than aquatainers.

In the end, if you guys have any interest in this thread then you should have a lot of fun reading survivalistboards.com.

[ranger]

I was born and raised in Savannah, GA - lived through multiple hurricane near misses and had to evacuate multiple times. Career has taken me to Atlanta. As I contemplate retirement - I won't be on the coast again. I may stay where I am (Canton, GA) or move a little further north away from the Atlanta creep. The big lakes serve as my "beach". I am never going below the gnat line again to live - visit, yes - live, no. I will deal with the occasional snow/ice and random tornado. I have a very large unfinished basement - we make a Sam's (or COSTCO) run and keep a portable shelf unit stocked with non-perishable food plus we keep large water cans full (Walmart camping section). I am thinking hard about a whole house generator plumbed into natural gas.

[rob_s]

Knowing nothing about portable generators...

I see some listed as dual- (gas or propane) and tri- (add natural gas) fuel. Are there pros/cons to these? I'm thinking that at the very least a dual-fuel. Ignite be something worth looking at if I do t go whole-house.

As I think I mentioned in my first post, we are on a well with RO system, so my desire for a whole-house generator as a first choice is primarily driven by that need. We are also rural enough that even some small local thunderstorms have knocked out power for several hours in the past. Certainly not an emergency need, but it'd be nice to be able to get ready for work in the morning when these thing happen. Basically need it to run the entire RO system and the water heater.

[Cory]

A note on natural gas for your home, generators, and pumps.

During hurricane relief for Sandy I was in the National Guard working with the Freeport FD on lobg island. Some homes had broken gas lines, or floating fuel from basement furnaces. When power was restored they exploded. If you have natural gas, or fuel stored in your basement be extremely careful.

One older gentlmen noticed the power to his grid had been turned on, and started a pump in his basement. A spark happened somewhere and blew out the front of his house. I believe it killed his wife and hurt him pretty bad. I got there after he had been taken away in an ambulance, so i could be wrong on the details of injury. Point is, be careful with gas leaks after a hurricane which could also have caused electrical issues.

-Cory

[hufnagel]

I can only come with advice from someone that has suffered through a few hurricanes including Harvey. As far as generators go I think ideally a natural gas one that's plumbed into your house lines are best. I've yet to see a situation where natural gas service was disrupted during a hurricane. If you don't have natural gas service then a large propane tank might be your next best option.

However, my 10kw portable did just fine taking care of my wife and kids during 3 days without power for Harvey. It would have worked well for a few more days but for an extended time w/o power I would prefer a whole home genset. We were even able to run a line to my neighbors house when their genset wouldn't start.

As far as food, I would only go for the prepackaged MRE type stuff unless I absolutely had to. My wife coupons and can stretch a dollar quite far. Buy meat when it's on sale and put it in the deep freezer. Same with bread, as it freezes great as well. Stock up on what you would normally eat because that is what will keep you on good spirits in a bad situation. A charcoal grill and electric griddle is a must. Between those two you can almost fix any meal you would want.

Instead of rushing to the store to buy bottle water right before a storm buy one gallon or larger jugs of water throughout the year and instead of throwing them away save them. Just fill them up and freeze them when the time comes.

Have a chainsaw and tools available for the cleanup afterwards is always a must but most people have these already. Disaster preparedness doesn't have to be expensive. Buy whenever you see a good deal even if you think you won't need it immediately. Preparing for this stuff is a continuous process not just something you do when a storm is coming your way.


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http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/10/sea_bright_mayor_damage_from_h.html

The nine friends awoke today to deep sand covering Ocean Avenue, with power lines down and spouts of natural gas shooting up through the sand from broken pipelines.

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2012/11/01/natural-gas-crews-methodically-cut-gas-leaks-to-sandy-damaged-homes/

They eventually had to shut down CNG service to large swaths of those areas effected, as the only quick and safe method to extinguish the numerous CNG fires.

If you have a generator, get one setup for tri-fuel, or configure it yourself as such, and equip yourself to run on either 3. If you can't get gasoline, the CNG service is down, and you're unable to refill your propane tanks, then you're just pretty much straight up fucked.

[Aray]

I'm looking at diesel generators now. My furnace runs on fuel oil (#2HH), so I basically have 1000 gal to run the generator.

[Jamie]

As I am blessed to be sitting here drinking my morning coffee I wish the best to those in the affected areas of Irma and those digging out of the mess in Texas.

There are more than a few excellent thoughts and suggestions in this thread already. Having experienced 6 weeks without power in South MS after Katrina I'd like to offer a few relatively inexpensive items I found invaluable during that time period.

Cyalume or chemlight sticks....a bunch of them! We always had them in our departments (ICU & ER) within the hospitals where I worked in New Orleans, and used them during the frequent normal power outages prevalent down there. I probably went through 100 of them after the storm. I ran a well chained up and secured generator in my carport (you don't have "garages" in SW MS), but would hang a few chemlights throughout the house for lowlevel ambient lighting, and one in a window near the generator. While we had several battery powered Coleman type lanterns, the chemlights are simply handy and convenient.

Coffee (insert your favorite caffeine delivery unit beverage here). Instant is fine, redundancy is better, brewed is best! It, for me, was a great morale booster. I only drink a couple of cups a day, my only other beverage is water...hence my preference for a Big Berkey water system. But the coffee really helped start my day.

Low energy requiring, easy to prepare meals, especially for the first week. MRE's actually work well, Mountain House type meals are fine too. These foods allowed me to concentrate my energies towards clean up and tree removal... (I had 19 loblolly pine trees on my house...no 911 to call...hot and dry, so a fire risk). Whatever cleanup you have dependent on the disaster, you'll have to prioritize your efforts. Having easy to prepare and low effort meals initially helped me quite a bit.
"Real" food, prepared when things settle down was welcomed. But those first several days can be close to overwhelming...you just have to prioritize and move forward.

Toilet and waste needs. We used a 5 gallon bucket with trash bags, and buried the waste initially. We couldn't burn it...fire risk was too great as mentioned. Once we were able to access enough non-drinking water, then we kept a bucket filled for toilet flushing. But we didn't have that volume of water to spare in the first several days after the storm.

I tried not to repeat suggestions already offered, if I did, my apologies for the redundancy.

Best of luck to all the PF'er folks.

[Hambo]

As I am blessed to be sitting here drinking my morning coffee I wish the best to those in the affected areas of Irma and those digging out of the mess in Texas.

There are more than a few excellent thoughts and suggestions in this thread already. Having experienced 6 weeks without power in South MS after Katrina I'd like to offer a few relatively inexpensive items I found invaluable during that time period.

Cyalume or chemlight sticks....a bunch of them! We always had them in our departments (ICU & ER) within the hospitals where I worked in New Orleans, and used them during the frequent normal power outages prevalent down there. I probably went through 100 of them after the storm. I ran a well chained up and secured generator in my carport (you don't have "garages" in SW MS), but would hang a few chemlights throughout the house for lowlevel ambient lighting, and one in a window near the generator. While we had several battery powered Coleman type lanterns, the chemlights are simply handy and convenient.

They make great, safe night lights when the shutters are up and the power is out.

Coffee (insert your favorite caffeine delivery unit beverage here). Instant is fine, redundancy is better, brewed is best! It, for me, was a great morale booster. I only drink a couple of cups a day, my only other beverage is water...hence my preference for a Big Berkey water system. But the coffee really helped start my day.

French press. If you can boil water on an small camping stove or grill, you can have great coffee. Or do what I did this time: big batch of cold brew to go in the cooler.

Low energy requiring, easy to prepare meals, especially for the first week. MRE's actually work well, Mountain House type meals are fine too. These foods allowed me to concentrate my energies towards clean up and tree removal... (I had 19 loblolly pine trees on my house...no 911 to call...hot and dry, so a fire risk). Whatever cleanup you have dependent on the disaster, you'll have to prioritize your efforts. Having easy to prepare and low effort meals initially helped me quite a bit.
"Real" food, prepared when things settle down was welcomed. But those first several days can be close to overwhelming...you just have to prioritize and move forward.


I've never been hungry enough to choke down an MRE post-storm. For me they're last ditch, like when you're saying, "That dead cat over there might not have been out in the heat too long..." Also, when travel was pointless or restricted, I found that trying to make something more food-like took up a lot of time.

Toilet and waste needs. We used a 5 gallon bucket with trash bags, and buried the waste initially. We couldn't burn it...fire risk was too great as mentioned. Once we were able to access enough non-drinking water, then we kept a bucket filled for toilet flushing. But we didn't have that volume of water to spare in the first several days after the storm.

We always had water, so much water that the septic systems were not working. Once you're past limited flushing, it's the bucket, or sneak over and dig a cat hole in the neighbor's yard.

I tried not to repeat suggestions already offered, if I did, my apologies for the redundancy.

Best of luck to all the PF'er folks.

Great post.

[hufnagel]

http://bumperdumper.com/

Soon to be added to the emergency kit? :D

[JAD]

I've considered a number of approaches, but I'm young enough that I can build an off-grid home sized to my needs, mortgage it, and pay it off, before I retire.

For older folks - The conceptual idea of an off-grid "Tiny Home" https://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/ is a damn good one!

Also, for retrofits/conversions, the Tesla Powerwall would be the go-to approach. You can supplement it with solar panels, but also charge it via grid power. The initial idea Tesla had for the Powerwall was something like, "It charges during the day when energy costs are low and discharges at night when energy costs are higher." Think of it like a battery supplement for power consumption. This reduces grid load in general and reduces overall energy costs for the Powerwall owner, a win-win for a power hungry world.

I think it's an excellent idea, my long-term concern is the stability of a Li-Ion battery mounted on the side of my house...

I will mostly restrain my battery nerdness but:
-Power wall is a peak shaver, which is very smart, but doesn't have much to do with backup.
-Wet lithium ion is the only option for this kind of play, and for making a sustainable solar setup. We are five or ten years from a better technology hitting the high end of the market.
You could home build the hardware of the power wall. The cool thing is the software.
-$1.25/Wh is cheap for street pricing. It is not actually cheap. The cell content of the power wall is ... not a lot.
- They're using NMC. That's a shame; LTO would be way cooler, and safer.

[Jamie]

Thank you Hambo.

As regards the MRE's. I understand LOL. But in my perspective they are short-term gourmet meals compared to the C-Rats I humped and consumed so long ago. :)
I still carry a "John Wayne" on my key-ring to remind me how fortunate I am these days.

[TGS]

For the human waste concern, you can get 5 gallon buckets with a makeshift toilet seat lid, and use purpose built bags with an enzyme for the poop.

Or, fill it with cat litter. I have the former. The bucket sits there in a closet filled with the other hygiene need preps, as opposed to the medical, food (6 months worth) or water. When my sister saw it she wanted one too, so now she's got one for her classroom in case they go on some sort of extended lockdown.

[FNFAN]

I will mostly restrain my battery nerdness but:
-Power wall is a peak shaver, which is very smart, but doesn't have much to do with backup.
-Wet lithium ion is the only option for this kind of play, and for making a sustainable solar setup. We are five or ten years from a better technology hitting the high end of the market.
You could home build the hardware of the power wall. The cool thing is the software.
-$1.25/Wh is cheap for street pricing. It is not actually cheap. The cell content of the power wall is ... not a lot.
- They're using NMC. That's a shame; LTO would be way cooler, and safer.

Any good sources to monitor the newer technology as it comes into use? Tons of info on solar, but who is the go-to source for common sense information?

[rob_s]

For the human waste concern, you can get 5 gallon buckets with a makeshift toilet seat lid, and use purpose built bags with an enzyme for the poop.

Or, fill it with cat litter. I have the former. The bucket sits there in a closet filled with the other hygiene need preps, as opposed to the medical, food (6 months worth) or water. When my sister saw it she wanted one too, so now she's got one for her classroom in case they go on some sort of extended lockdown.

I have two collapsible toilets and a case of bags, and left them all at home!

[RJ]

It just occurred to me looking at these weather guys out in Irma, that a good pair of safety glasses or goggles for everyone in the family is essential.

Maybe even the pets, too

Losing one's eyesight in a storm due to debris would be horrific.

Speaking of protection, what do you guys think about basic headgear? All I can think of is a bike helmet.

Are there non-weapons grade helmets out there at affordable price points in kids up to adult sizes?

Would you put a helmet in a bug out kit?

[hufnagel]

motorcycle helmet maybe? I don't know what the rating on them is for large, sharp, flying debris.

[TGS]

Would you put a helmet in a bug out kit?

I don't see the need.

The point of a "bug out" kit being to leave before you find yourself in a position that railroad ties are whizzing by you at 130mph.....

....that also raising the concern that being in the middle of a hurricane and wanting a helmet is akin to an Iraqi wanting rifle plates at the tank battle of 73 Eastings. You're in a position that you're likely going to die due to the overwhelming amount of shit that wants to kill you, worrying about the rifle plates (or helmet) is fairly silly and squarely in the category of misplaced priorities.

[JAD]

Any good sources to monitor the newer technology as it comes into use? Tons of info on solar, but who is the go-to source for common sense information?
I don't follow solar closely because the company I work with doesn't play much in grid storage, or at least it's not my bailiwick.

[RJ]

Ack - Hard hat. Why didn't I think of that.

Safety Hard Hat by AMSTON- Adjustable Helmet With 'Keep Cool' Vents, Meets ANSI z89.1 Standards, Personal Protective Equipment / PPE for Construction, Home Improvement, & DIY Projects (Blue) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LQYX36Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_2WyTzbSMY8HT5

I forgot I had my work hard hat on doing brush clearing after Charlie.

[Stephanie B]

Ack - Hard hat. Why didn't I think of that.

Safety Hard Hat by AMSTON- Adjustable Helmet With 'Keep Cool' Vents, Meets ANSI z89.1 Standards, Personal Protective Equipment / PPE for Construction, Home Improvement, & DIY Projects (Blue) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LQYX36Q/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_2WyTzbSMY8HT5

I forgot I had my work hard hat on doing brush clearing after Charlie.

A long time back, I had a hard hat with a mesh face shield (I was skidding logs on a crew). One of those might work.

[Grey]

Chainsaw helmet might be an option, I think those have face shields to protect against flying chips etc. Id consider a bump helmet like those that search And rescue use. I would want something with full coverage, bike helmets have too many vent openings I imagine for this situation.

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[Hambo]

If you want a helmet you should get a full face motorcycle helmet. That way when a street sign slices your head off the medics can carry the parts easier.

You can scoot out in tropical storm force winds to check it out, but when that big motherfucking roar starts your desire for self preservation should kick in. If not, not having a helmet is the least of your problems.

[Beat Trash]

I think for post storm cleanup, having a hard hat, safety goggles and a set of leather work gloves an excellent idea.

[rob_s]

So dealing with the family and associated health issues have certainly been an eye-opener for me. First, it should have occurred to me that the seniors who are never honest about their health issues aren't going to suddenly start being honest in an emergency. the oxygen machine that supposedly has a 12-hour backup when we left is now being reported as a 3-hour backup. Which is a specific issue to my situation, but the lesson here for the group is that if you are responsible for medically challenged folks then you must understand their real needs, and assuming that they understand or will be honest about their condition doesn't work.

All of which gets me more convinced that we need a stronger bug-in scenario. leaving town has been great, and we have power where we are, and it's a beautiful resort community, but it's not free. Eventually this will lead to a household discussion about the impacts of these costs on our larger vacation budget (we travel and vacation a LOT). Which is something else to consider. so even if we are ready to leave for short stints, having a safe, secure, comfortable place to return to is key.

My current thoughts on bug-in prep are
1) shutters/windows. We have to do our best to harden the home. related is the...
2) roof. it's standing seam but it's aging a bit and could use some maintenance
3) power. being on the well and dealing with the health issues tells me I will need more than just the 7.5kw rolling solution that works for everyone else.
4) fuel. again, needing the larger generator will mean I'll need to address this as well. I'm also going to pony up for a better grade of gas can to allow for safer storage than the plastic cans I have now.
5) food. will probably actually get addressed first, even though it's a low priority, but having some mountain house sitting around will make me feel better.


I'm reaching the conclusion that, much like carrying a gun, there is a security-blanket aspect to this as much as anything else. the food is a great example of this as it will probably never get eaten (just like the gun will probably never get used for defense) but having it will make me feel better and it doesn't cost much so it's worth it.

[Hambo]

I'm reaching the conclusion that, much like carrying a gun, there is a security-blanket aspect to this as much as anything else. the food is a great example of this as it will probably never get eaten (just like the gun will probably never get used for defense) but having it will make me feel better and it doesn't cost much so it's worth it.

I ate some of my security blanket yesterday. ;) A lot of things do double duty and aren't just for hurricanes: grill with spare tanks, camping gear (lanterns, shower, water jug, etc). We use some of the canned goods at home, I eat some stuff on hunting/camping trips, and some we give to charity before it expires. The only things that is really single use are the shutters.

[ranger]

We lost power for about 18 hours north of Atlanta - just came up a few hours ago. I know - nothing like many others suffered or are suffering. Because we boat on the weekends, we keep lots of frozen water bottles and bags of ice in an extra freezer. That plus cooler came in very handy as we iced down stuff from refrigerator.

[Malamute]

I ate some of my security blanket yesterday. ;) ... The only things that is really single use are the shutters.

I installed a roll-up shutter on a mobile several years ago. It had a crank that could be used from inside, just stick it on the hook and roll the shutter down or up from inside. Heavy aluminum slats linked together, and a box type thing above the window it rolled up in to. I dont have the name of the company handy at the moment, but there likely a number of decent companies making them. I dont recall the cost, I was just hired to install it. I got the company info with sample shutter piece, but I'm not where they are at the moment. They made them in a number of colors.

Ive also made functional shutters on cabins. The same can be done for modern homes. The shutter idea has gone from being functional to decorative for the most part on modern homes, but hardware for functional shutters (https://www.google.com/search?q=functional+shutter+hardware&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU_Lm0o6DWAhVolFQKHf6oBl0QsAQI4wE&biw=1242&bih=580&dpr=1.1) is around online.

One house had a long window, I made a rolling door to cover it that locked down with hooks. Fairly simple to work, but this type wasnt on a part of the house that the rolling shutter was an issue visually when not being used. I believe theres bifold shutters that would work on long windows and still look OK.

[Cory]

-Have a larger amount of food on hand. Specifically food that doesn't require electric/heat to prepare.
-Have a list with everything you need to put in the car before leaving. Think this out and write it down before hand.
-Plastic waterproof containers. You can't fit everything in the car. Things that are going to stay at home can be waterproofed and organized with plastic totes. Additionally, the things you want to take can be prepacked and staged ahead of time.
-Gas shortages will be an issue. Stocking up on gas all the time is likely not viable. Refilling your tank every time it gets to half is.
-Water shortages may be an issue, or may not be. If bugging out, go far enough to find water in stock. If bugging in have more water stock on hand. As a household we do not drink tap water. So we generally have 5-6 gallons on hand. A better storage method, and more water may be better in the future.
-I do not currently own, or have the means to purchase a generator. A way to charge cell phones (and Baofengs) with batteries would be beneficial.
-Car charger. Wall Charger.
-An Atlas book for your vehicle is invaluable. Your GPS will be wrong, or loose signal when you are a half a mile from the exit that leads to the highway you forgot the name of. Google maps will still be loading. It's cheap and it will come in handy.
-Budget. You can't bug out if you have no place to go and can't afford a hotel stay. You, your wife, and your kid likely can't sleep in your car. If you know you can't bug out long distance then you had best have your ducks in a row to bug in. Make the choice.
-Know when to leave. Have predetermined choices. If A) happens we leave. If B) happens we stay.
-If leaving, leave early enough to beat the traffic.

This was a big one for me:
-Know who is making choices for your family. In my family, my wife and I make the choices for me, her, and our son. We planned to stay with my parents in their 5th wheel out of harms way. When they decided to start moving around, and moving to other places with questionable reasoning and not entirely in safe areas and our choices were no longer considered it was time for a change. Know who makes the choices for your immediate family and don't allow someone else to dictate an agenda you disagree with. Hurt feelings don't matter with regards to loved one's safety.

-Cory

[Hambo]

Malamute, when Floridians say "shutters" what we mean is "hurricane panels". These http://www.homedepot.com/p/POMA-15-in-x-68-in-Aluminum-Hurricane-Panel-2000P068/202385858 are supposed to meet these https://www.miamidade.gov/building/products/shutters.asp standards. There are various designs including accordians and roll down, but my understanding is that not all meet the Miami-Dade specs.

[hufnagel]

rob_s: if by "rolling solutions" you mean generators on wheels, keep in mind there's some pretty big ones out there, like north of 10kW big. even HF has one.
also I'd consider making your fuel source mobile as well, if you were thinking of propane. being able to take the tanks to someplace and get them filled seems to me like a good idea. I can't find my consumption data at the moment, but my foggy memory says the "average" home will consume a full 100# tank in 3.5 days of continuous use, as a source for a generator.

[Malamute]

Malamute, when Floridians say "shutters" what we mean is "hurricane panels". These http://www.homedepot.com/p/POMA-15-in-x-68-in-Aluminum-Hurricane-Panel-2000P068/202385858 are supposed to meet these https://www.miamidade.gov/building/products/shutters.asp standards. There are various designs including accordians and roll down, but my understanding is that not all meet the Miami-Dade specs.

Ah, OK.

Ding. Light went on on other part of my question. :)

[Joe in PNG]

One lesson learned the hard way by a friend of mine- test run your generators before hurricane season starts.
It seems he lent his out to somebody a few years ago, and they fried the stator, and didn't tell him.
So, he goes to use it, and nothing. Plus, with the mess caused by the hurricane, he won't get the parts until well after power is restored.

[peterb]

Chainsaw helmet might be an option, I think those have face shields to protect against flying chips etc. Id consider a bump helmet like those that search And rescue use. I would want something with full coverage, bike helmets have too many vent openings I imagine for this situation.

Chainsaw helmets are great when you're running a saw or other power tools, but the attached face shield and earmuffs can make them awkward for manual work. A standard hardhat is inexpensive.

If you don't like safety glasses because they always fog up for you, there are wire-mesh glasses and goggles.
http://www.baileysonline.com/Safety-First-Aid/Safety-Glasses/Safety/

[Joe in PNG]

Now that the worst is mostly over, sit down with your family and do a hurricane debrief. Now, if you can.
Write down:
-things you wish you had
-things you should have prepared better
-things you wish you knew
-problems with your planning
-lessons learned

Then, next year when summer starts, break the list out and plan accordingly.

[ragnar_d]

Working on this right now . . . it's at two pages on my Word doc right now.

I've got a lot of holes to plug.

[Malamute]

Please share your observations when finished.

[ffchewy17]

rob_s I used a 5500 watt generac to power my well pump and filter system. I wired in my own Reliance CSR202 transfer switch to the pump. I then used an additional 7000 watt generac to run two fridges, two window mount 10,000 but AC units, multiple fans, small lights and coffee maker. Still had enough power left over to run a submersible pump to drain the pool and power TV/DVD/sound system. The two AC units are for one of my sons rooms and the master, opposite ends of the house. Using the fans to circulate the air kept the house at 75 during the day. Both generators are electric start so that my wife can use and set up the system by herself when I'm on duty.... I was gone for 28hours of the storm. Used about 20 gallons of fuel for 26 hours of run time, reduced the load at night and during the day. Cooked on a homemade out door cooking station of two bayou burners and a big green egg I built into one unit table.

Run the generators every six months under a load to test them. We loose power occasionally (about 4-6 times a year) and the single transfer switch is a lifesaver for the well. Can have the water back up and runnng in about 15-minutes of setup time.

I use the VP 5-gallon cans for gas storage. Also have some 5-gallon cans if the no-spill variety, both work excellent

[Malamute]

Im working on getting the generator exhaust vented properly from the garage (detached) and my spare hand pump going, and zeroing in on a couple 30 gallon drums for fuel. Lost power a while back and ran the generator, the battery was dead, I couldnt pull start it, ended up jump starting it with the 4runner. Mucking around with a pile of plastic gas cans is a huge pain in the arse. One or two cans and drum with pump is the new procedure.

Discovered one of the three sump pumps was bad ( a backup pump), it kicks the breaker when it comes on. Theres 3 sump pumps run off the breaker panel thats hot with the transfer switch turned and the generator on. They are now going to be 3 separate circuits, and mounted in the ceiling instead of 2 1/2 feet up the wall. Got spare breaker also. One should always have spare breakers around, and spare (gfi and non-gfi) outlets. Ive had 8 or 10 or more GFI outlets fail in project houses and temporary power setups, a couple that were bad right out of the package. Ive had to replace gfi's with regulars when they fail and I have nothing else on hand.

Buying Zoeler sump pumps locally were $225 each from the plumbing supply outfit. Buying the same pump online and delivered in 2 days was $119 each.

[ragnar_d]

Well, this is the rough draft. I'm still clearing up my thoughts and action lists. A few actions are more thought exercises than actual actions, a "what-if" for worst case scenarios if you would.

AAR – Hurricane Irma
What Worked:

Had a basic outline of packing lists
Never letting my car go below half a tank (3/4 when there's something chruning in the Atlantic) paid off.
Staying off of highways/interstates (Turnpike, I-95, I-75)
Having hard copies of documents and having documents in cloud
“Drop Dead” timeline for making bug out decision
Had plenty of water, no need to run to the store to stock up last minute.
Eteckcity lanterns (https://www.amazon.com/Etekcity-Portable-Outdoor-Camping-Batteries/dp/B01C5QSENQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1505524625&sr=8-1&keywords=etekcity+lanterns) are a damn good value for the money.
Camp stoves & propane grills are awesome, as are french presses. I had forgotten how peaceful it is to sit outside on the porch and enjoy a cup of coffee and grill up some breakfast without any modern distractions.

What Didn’t:

A Ford Explorer is not a replacement for a pickup truck. I think I can barely haul more in that car than my old Crown Victoria.
Packing last minute, items got forgotten/overlooked. Not necessities, but there were some holes.
Not having multiple predetermined BOLs.
No way to keep cool or have air moving when power goes out.
Frogg Toggs keep you dry but you might sweat to death in them
I could have thought ahead to bring more beer to my buddy's house.

Improvements Going Forward – Actions Items/Protocols/Procedures:

Put in PM schedule in place for prep checks. (Generator check/run, Battery backup check, Check all batteries in lights/remotes, Rotate fuel & refill
Pre chill/Pre-ice coolers
Keep roll of doggie/poop bags in each car (also rolls into bug out bags). Even in a hurricane, I refuse to be "that guy" and leave dog crap on someone else's yard.
Determine quantity of sandbags to prevent water incursion at entryways, find location to fill (or store) sandbags
Complete Bug Out Books (http://www.thesurvivalpodcast.com/bug-out-planning-orig-148)
Complete Bug Out Bags
Congregate & Secure All Vital Documents, store in waterproof pouches
Clear garage for at least one vehicle.
Work some sort of setup to maximize cube in Explorer (look to Akro totes or Action Packers for internal, Action Packers/Surplus Pelicans for external)
Rotate out MRE’s, long term storage food
Have more juice/milk stored
Fix iPad or acquire new one, look into tablet for kiddo
Anchor point and grounding point for generator
Make dedicated tote for generator stuff (extension cords, 3-outlet taps, power strips, etc.)

Improvements Going Forward - Equipment:

Finish battery bank/backup system (http://www.battery1234.com/)
Hitch Hauler or small (4x6/5x8) trailer to transport extra items (generator/fuel/cooler).
Source 4 more 15 gallon drums for fuel/water
Source more 5gal Fuel cans to complete 12 can rotation
Look into RTIC (or equivalent) cooler. (65 or 110?)
Find small fans. (Battery operated, USB or 12V powered)
Breathable rain gear, Bibs & Jacket (Carhartt Storm?)
Look into small inverter generator (Honda EU2000i or Generac/Yamaha equivalent)
Hardened chain and lock to securing generator (Both inverter 2k & standard 5k)
Have extra sanitation stuff handy (Hand sanitizer, Antibacterial soap/Hibiclens, “Blue Water”/Toilet items)
Square away tools for cleanup/rebuild/prep
Extra batteries for cordless tools
Corded backup for high draw/high use tools
Tool/bit for putting on wing nuts for corrugated shudders, probably some washers too.
Get portable icemaker
Store some more water (15-20gal tap in 1gal tea jugs/2L soda bottles, 5-6 cases of 1/2L bottles)
Get portable/window AC unit for a cool room. 2 if possible (kiddo's room and our room)


As for what would be nice to have, I'd really like to be back in northern Alabama. Barring that, a lot of the "stuff" list is nice to have. We got by really well with what we had, the family definitely wasn't hurting. One thing I definitely want to do if/when we buy a house down here is to already have the shutters done and maybe impact windows too. Accordion shutters would be preferable to the corrugated ones, but either would be preferable to lugging plywood around. A transfer switch to plug the generator directly into the house would be really nice. Depending on where we buy, I might look into having some sandbags ready to go. The local authorities were handing out 10 sandbags per household . . . 10 sandbags would probably cover the front door. The garage door and three sliders on the ground floor? Fuggedaboutit

[rob_s]

Ragnar, that's a great list. Some random thoughts...

All 6 of us had our iPads, and they were life/sanity savers. Even though the place we bugged outnto had 5 Tvs, everyone being able to sit where they want and watch what they want was critical.

Our Yeti soft cooler did better than either of the two large hard side box store brands. I'm not saying it needs to be a boutique cooler, but I'm thinking that having at least one of the rotomolded larger coolers would be a good idea if we need to stay somewhere without power.

I used to have a bin that had all. Y emergency supplies. Since moving onto this house two years ago I still haven't built it back up, and with more people involved now it needs to be different anyway. It would be nice to be able to just grab up that box if we leave.

The hitch platform thing is a great idea. Reminds me I need to get a hitch installed on our "mini van".

[gtae07]

Well, we were on vacation out of the country when all this went down, so it could have gone a whole lot worse. We did have the foresight to take a few irreplaceable things with us (important documents, home server, wedding photos, son's mementos from birthmom) when we went to Atlanta to drop our son off.

But combining lessons from Matthew last year:

GOOD:
* We have two pre-staged BOLs in Atlanta--at our parents' houses. My parents and my in-laws live 15 minutes apart so we have a place to go. Also, if there's extended outages or similar, my wife can stay there with our son and I can come down alone for cleanup.
* Our home server and document safe can be packed in a moment's notice, so that's easy to deal with. We also have a thumbdrive stashed at my parents' place with encrypted copies of our essential documents.
* We have a hitch platform for the car and a pair of large plastic tubs for additional stuff, if we need to bug out.
* We've pre-decided that we're evacuating for anything more than a low-end Cat 1; and if any evac order posts, we're gone.
* We're early risers, so getting on the road at 0530 isn't a problem and you beat a lot of traffic. It's now our preferred method of making even normal road trips, as our son travels better this way.
* Should we need it, we have a couple of small window unit air conditioners left over from when our central AC died in July 2016. In an extended outage I could power one with the generator to keep myself cool at least for sleeping.
* We got a generator for free, from friends who were given it and didn't want it. Needed a bit of work due to disuse but it runs fine now.
* I don't let the gas get low in either vehicle.
* I read weather forums and keep up on the models, so I usually have an extra day or two heads-up of potential issues and can top off gas etc. and start packing before the rush. Managed to top off before the gas prices spiked from Harvey.
* Not hurricane-related, but whenever traveling by air, keep at least one change of clothes in your carryon. I did this and wasn't in dire straits when our luggage was delayed. My wife, OTOH...
* We have a "smart" thermostat that we can access via smartphone, so if we can get through to it, we know the power and internet are still working.

Not so good:
* Don't plan vacations for when a hurricane is coming ;)
* Have a backup plan to evacuate your pets if you're gone for a long time. The person who was pet-sitting for us couldn't take our cat with him, but someone else in the neighborhood volunteered to watch him for us. We coordinated by phone from Ireland.
* Make sure your change of clothes in your carryon stays dry. Our water bottle opened up and soaked my clothes.

To improve or change:
* Get a few more cases of water. We had some more but it got old and we donated it to help a homeless camp.
* Freshen up our stored gas cans.
* Get the scrap metal off my utility trailer and get a spare tire for it. And fix the lights.
* Be better about PM and regular running of the generator. Find a way to secure it, say on the back porch.
* Pre-pack a bugout bag for us and our son.
* Figure out a more discreet way to pack a rifle and our pistols. I don't have a good way of doing this that doesn't scream "gun!" right now. Of course, we could normally carry the pistols.
* We really need to get better about rotating storable food, and finding some long-term storable stuff like MREs. We're bad enough with food planning as it is.
* I've considered wiring in a transfer switch for our generator vs. running extension cords, but we also don't plan to be in this house for much longer (hopefully). Not sure if I want to put in the effort.
* We'd like to move back to the Atlanta area but that really depends on me being able to find a job. Jobs in my career field up there are limited.
* Most stuff inside the house is now up higher thanks to a roaming, very active, and curious toddler, but my workshop needs a little help. I need to move the expensive or easily-water-damaged stuff up a little higher.
* I need to put together a good first-aid/trauma kit or two. Meant to do it patterned after the ones we had when I was volunteering on the fire department but never did.
* I want to install security cameras and door hardening, but again, not sure how long we're going to be there. At least door hardening should be doable easily. Cameras that don't require running wires would be nicer and easier to install.
* Not really sure what to do about window panels/shutters on a vinyl house. I really wish we could get real locking shutters. We don't have inset windows to use the barrel bolts like all the online plans call for. Best option I guess is to remove the first floor shutters and install plywood there? No good way to get to second floor.

[Hambo]

Good:
-We kept the cars full of gas and I filled a couple 5 gallon cans for bug out or after. 24 hours gas stations at 0400 and lots of guns make it easy.
-We really knew this was coming our way before Labor Day, so we quit shopping for food that needed refrigeration. Hence we lost very little.
-I obsessively charged our electronics and rechargeable flashlight batteries. With books and movies downloaded we could take our minds off what was going on outside.
-Lanterns. We've got several and we used them all. It's really impossible to have too much light in a shuttered house. My favorites are Streamlight Siege for a lot of light in big areas and Black Diamond Mojis to hang in smaller areas.

Bad:
-Last time we got schwacked it was three weeks without power. In a long term deal you start wanting real food. Part of our food supply was related to that. IN the short term that sucks. You don't want to fool around with complex gourmet mac and cheese on Day 2. Cans and backpacking food are the best.
-For 28 hours without power and almost no food in the fridge, no problem. But for long term we do need a better cooler.

[David S.]

Re: Trauma kits.

I just heard on a podcast that these may be eligible for purchase with HSA (health savings account) money. I hadn't really thought about it before but it does make sense.

[SeriousStudent]

Re: Trauma kits.

I just heard on a podcast that these may be eligible for purchase with HSA (health savings account) money. I hadn't really thought about it before but it does make sense.

It worked for me. About a month ago, I bought a bunch of stuff from Rescue Essentials to restock a pair of kits.

[ragnar_d]

Ragnar, that's a great list. Some random thoughts...

All 6 of us had our iPads, and they were life/sanity savers. Even though the place we bugged outnto had 5 Tvs, everyone being able to sit where they want and watch what they want was critical.
I've got a little freebie android tablet that is good for playing around with but I'm looking to get an iPad (I've already assimilated into the Borg, might as well go all the way). Wife had an old iPad mini that was really handy for a lot of things until the toddler decide to try her hand at high velocity drop testing (Note to self: whatever is two levels above a otterbox/Lifeproof, get that case for the wee one). Probably look at getting a couple because I really like my tablet and the little one is getting old enough where we can start loading shows and edu-tainment games on there for here. Add on that the wife's entertainment tastes diverge from mine, it would help a lot with keeping everyone occupied.


Our Yeti soft cooler did better than either of the two large hard side box store brands. I'm not saying it needs to be a boutique cooler, but I'm thinking that having at least one of the rotomolded larger coolers would be a good idea if we need to stay somewhere without power.
I've got a couple Coleman coolers and they worked, but marginally. A big precooled RTIC would probably have done even better . . . and it would be great for the annual race pilgrimage.


I used to have a bin that had all. Y emergency supplies. Since moving onto this house two years ago I still haven't built it back up, and with more people involved now it needs to be different anyway. It would be nice to be able to just grab up that box if we leave.
I'm looking at doing similar. Right now, it's just an excel sheet full of checklists. Ultimate goal is to just have everything except cooler stuff already in the totes and ready to GTFO.


The hitch platform thing is a great idea. Reminds me I need to get a hitch installed on our "mini van".
It's one of the reasons it took me so long to track down an Explorer (which was probably not the best choice in hindsight, but it kept the wife happy . . .). I wanted the factory tow package and they were had to come by in Alabama at the time. All the aftermarket ones looked like crap. As for the hitch platform, this is the one I'm looking at:
ROLA 59502 2" Steel Cargo Carrier - 2 Piece (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0016I8E1M/)
Pretty decent reviews and the platform is big enough to haul what I want to haul in it. Thinking about it more, while a trailer would be nice it would be a hindrance in two ways:

We'd end up packing too much crap
I take a 10-11mpg penalty towing a trailer with the Exploder. That cuts the range a good bit. Upside would be being able to carry extra fuel if we had to do a loooonnnnnnnng haul.
It was a big enough pain moving in traffic and gas stations, a trailer would only make it worse.

[Hambo]

Trauma kits are cool, but being up to date on tetanus vaccine would be a better idea when doing cleanup. If I lived where it floods, I'd add some other vaccines.

[jwperry]

Anybody ever used something like this for a multi-day outage:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Inverter-Car-USB-1500Watt-3000W-Peak-Charger-12V-DC-To-120V-AC-Converter/222545736510?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

I don't remember who mentioned it, but the soft-sided Ozark Trail Wal Mart cooler I bought right before the storm kept ice longer than my 2 Coleman coolers that I've been toting around for years. They're about to be replaced. We never lost water, but I used my waterBOB. I see they're $100+ on ebay right now and out of stock everywhere. I'll buy more than 1 when they come back in stock..

We've already started to replenish the things we consumed and fill the holes that we found: more battery powered fans, more batteries, Thermacell Lantern(s), larger tarps, sterno stove and we're looking into getting a propane grill. Getting charcoal going at 0500 to boil water for the french press coffee maker was for the birds. I also need to find a bribe/treat for the kids that the first ingredient isn't "sugar". If I could have put them on little hamster wheels to drive the fans in the house I think my week would have been 50% better.

[rob_s]

Anybody ever used something like this for a multi-day outage:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Inverter-Car-USB-1500Watt-3000W-Peak-Charger-12V-DC-To-120V-AC-Converter/222545736510?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
I have an inverter in the cab from the factory, but once I have a bed cover I intend to add a "real" inverter to the bed.



We've already started to replenish the things we consumed and fill the holes that we found: more battery powered fans, more batteries, Thermacell Lantern(s), larger tarps, sterno stove and we're looking into getting a propane grill. Getting charcoal going at 0500 to boil water for the french press coffee maker was for the birds. I also need to find a bribe/treat for the kids that the first ingredient isn't "sugar". If I could have put them on little hamster wheels to drive the fans in the house I think my week would have been 50% better.

With Maria somewhat threatening lots of people are scrambling again to re-stock.

[Grey]

Really good insight here, we don't get as severe weather up here but I have a change of heart about the storm drain entrance in my yard after seeing all the flooding.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

[David S.]

Anybody ever used something like this for a multi-day outage:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Inverter-Car-USB-1500Watt-3000W-Peak-Charger-12V-DC-To-120V-AC-Converter/222545736510?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

If you're looking to power your appliances, take a look at the Whistler (https://www.amazon.com/Whistler-XP800i-Power-Inverter-Continuous/dp/B00HWL4NNU/). It's rated to take a surge for 10 seconds.

Also, for outdoor cooking, I've been happy with the Camp Chef Denali (https://www.campchef.com/camp-stoves/16-cooking-systems/denali-pro-3x-three-burner-stove-with-griddle.html). I think I bought mine at Costco last year.

[jwperry]

If you're looking to power your appliances, take a look at the Whistler (https://www.amazon.com/Whistler-XP800i-Power-Inverter-Continuous/dp/B00HWL4NNU/). It's rated to take a surge for 10 seconds.

Also, for outdoor cooking, I've been happy with the Camp Chef Denali (https://www.campchef.com/camp-stoves/16-cooking-systems/denali-pro-3x-three-burner-stove-with-griddle.html). I think I bought mine at Costco last year.That inverter looks nicer than the one I was looking at. Time to decide what all we want to power. Previous target was the fridge, tv and a few fans.

The price of that camp stove, I can get a nice propane grill. Looks nice and compact for camping though.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[jwperry]

I have an inverter in the cab from the factory, but once I have a bed cover I intend to add a "real" inverter to the bed.

Are you looking at a COTS solution for the bed mounted inverter or engineering something?

My wife is already starting to panic about another storm. The current weather map of the Atlantic looks a lot like it did back in '04.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

[ranger]

Several people mentioned tablets for entertainment. I bought an Amazon Fire at Black Friday or such extremely cheap. It works well and is significantly cheaper than an iPad. Only issue so far is that it does not work on the Delta in flight entertainment app GOGO.

[David S.]

That inverter looks nicer than the one I was looking at. Time to decide what all we want to power. Previous target was the fridge, tv and a few fans.

The price of that camp stove, I can get a nice propane grill. Looks nice and compact for camping though.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk

According to their chart the Whistler 1200 should be able to handle a fridge. It's my understanding that refrigerators have a couple second power spike when they turn on. Many inverters aren't designed to handle a spike for that long.

The Camp Chef has smaller units and there are other, less expensive brands. A gas grill won't be very efficient at heating pots, unless you have a side burner.

[ragnar_d]

Anybody ever used something like this for a multi-day outage:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Power-Inverter-Car-USB-1500Watt-3000W-Peak-Charger-12V-DC-To-120V-AC-Converter/222545736510?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

As mentioned, I'd go with a Whistler. I've got an 800W XP800i sitting on my desk that's going to be a part of a battery bank system eventually (along with an XP1600i). Untill I do that, I'll just hook it to my car battery and idle the car occasionally for some low draw stuff (charging phones, batteries, etc.) and to keep the generator for the big stuff. Check out battery1234.com (http://www.battery1234.com/), the guy there (Steven Harris) did several shows on battery backups, generators, etc. with Jack Spirko on The Survival Podcast. It's good stuff.


I don't remember who mentioned it, but the soft-sided Ozark Trail Wal Mart cooler I bought right before the storm kept ice longer than my 2 Coleman coolers that I've been toting around for years. They're about to be replaced. We never lost water, but I used my waterBOB. I see they're $100+ on ebay right now and out of stock everywhere. I'll buy more than 1 when they come back in stock..

We've already started to replenish the things we consumed and fill the holes that we found: more battery powered fans, more batteries, Thermacell Lantern(s), larger tarps, sterno stove and we're looking into getting a propane grill. Getting charcoal going at 0500 to boil water for the french press coffee maker was for the birds. I also need to find a bribe/treat for the kids that the first ingredient isn't "sugar". If I could have put them on little hamster wheels to drive the fans in the house I think my week would have been 50% better.
Before spending money on a propane grill (unless you really want one, then go nuts!), check out the little camp stoves (https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Bottle-Top-Propane-Stove/dp/B0009PUR5E/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1505667423&sr=8-11&keywords=coleman+campstove). Grills are nice, but a lot of heat (and, consequently, fuel) gets wasted unless you've got a side burner or you're doing other stuff. I've got a single burner Coleman camp stove that screws right to a little 1-pound propane bottle, that thing is worth every dollar I spent on it. My only change there would be getting a two burner one that I could run off a 40-pound cylinder.

[rob_s]

Are you looking at a COTS solution for the bed mounted inverter or engineering something?

My wife is already starting to panic about another storm. The current weather map of the Atlantic looks a lot like it did back in '04.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


Hoping for a IBSE (installed by someone else) solution ;)

[schüler]

Underground propane tanks – biggest concern is long-term corrosion. Otherwise out of sight, out of mind is great. Propane generators have nowhere near the CO issue of fossil fuel.

Generators and fuel – quiet operation is great once it’s quiet again. Gas cans usually get put on vehicle exteriors when mobile or exposed in the garage, at least have a plan to cover them so it’s not an obvious target.

The smaller, closed frame generators benefit greatly from any cooling assistance and following oil change recommendations. US Carburetion used to offer pre-config Yamaha tri-fuel (propane, natural gas, gasoline) generators, don’t know if they still do. You get what you pay for with generators, I hate the cheap Chinese crap with a passion.

Lighting - Some LED Christmas tree light strings are great for indoor lighting. Enough to see by in the main gathering room and low power consumption.

Power - A few/several SLA batteries + chargers are great to have. Much more efficient to charge off a battery using 12V adapter than an inverter. 38 to 55Ah sizes can be moved by most adults. I LOVE Noco brand smart chargers. You can find deals on eBay.

Big inverters are userful if you have a sizable battery bank or for brief, critical high power loads. They’re very inefficient for smaller loads and you may be surprised at the current draw/battery drain for even half load. Smaller inverters are very handy… but it’s much more efficient to have 12V compatible chargers for devices. USB is obvious but there are very affordable laptop adapters for most laptops (up to 90W?). I'd rather have a 2000w inverter generator with a built-in aux 12V output.

Firearm transport - Tool bags, golf caddys and storage totes are great for moving guns to a vehicle or trailer. Pistols and ammo go well in the Ridgid brand latching hard cases, they have a decent foam rubber gasket, are lockable and can be sat/stood/stacked on.

Moving around in floods - If you're in a flooded house an inflatable boat could be used if needed to isolate/move kids or elderly and items around a flooded house. If you have to be out and about, waders to keep the nasty flood water away from prolonged skin contact. The hospitals are treating a lot of mystery rashes that can get nasty or infected.

Water storage - If you have a Northern Tool nearby you can order Scepter 5gal water containers. They look just like jerry cans except they’re light blue. Nice part is they ship to your local store for free. Easy to strap down or tie off when mobile, nice to use for bulk camp or picnic water.

Supplies organization - You can use closet door shoe organizers. Emergency supplies are easily strewn about when you’ve got multiple supply containers or are looking for something at the bottom of a bag or container. Easy to make one for each room, each special needs person. Store the filled hanger in your poopy bucket or tote and just hang where needed. Also easy to grab ‘n go if needed.

Solar panels degrade over time – some at 50% by the time half their life is up.

Comms – might not be a bad idea to scan CB, FRS/GMRS for close-by situational awareness. Earphone recommended for family consideration. Also local organizational EmComm traffic.

Radios - there are ham and a few marine radios that are adaptations of commercial radios – like the FT-270R mentioned earlier. They carry over the weather resistance (or true waterproofing) along with quality accessories.

Be very careful with P25 radios. There are possible legal issues and interference with public safety comms – because 99% of portable P25 devices out there require network affiliation to work properly. Hate to think what would happen if you duplicate someone’s radio ID and they couldn’t comm. There’s only one P25 device I know of that works without active affiliation.

P25 or other digital modes (DMR, EDACS, etc.) are great for pristine signal clarity, even a bit of privacy because they’re nowhere near 50% of the radios used out there. Many digital-capable radios still have conventional/analog capability and can still talk to non-digi radios.

Radios with ability to be locked/channelized are great for dummy-proofing. Especially if used by non savvy people. That’s one reason I have few “ham” handie talkies and concentrate mostly on channelized, weatherproof handie talkies. I do NOT like the Baofeng and such for serious use but they’re way better than having just one radio or no radio.

Lehman’s is a great resource for independent living things like 5gal clothes washing bucket parts, etc.

[Malamute]

The surge mentioned above brought back the memory of living largely on generator power off and on for a couple years while living in my motor home while building houses. I put everything on surge protectors, and had several of them fail dramatically, like with sparks and smoke. I kept spares around. Many electronic things dont do well with surge.

Contractor trash bags. They are vastly tougher than ordinary bags and usually much larger. Very handy for trash, and not having minor things puncture the bags or have them sag and stretch and tear, and handy for keeping things dry if need be. You can pack pretty solidly with trash bags in any given space also, like if moving clothes or other soft things. They make passable body bags for dead animals, keeping them fairly well contained if needed until they can be properly dealt with. I keep a roll in my vehicle most of the time.

The trailer hitch cargo racks are pretty handy. I modified one to give about 10" more clearance so I didnt drag it on curbs or ditches and such. I made a simple plywood/(osb) box on mine the last road trip, it held a lot of stuff and cleared up space inside the vehicle.

Someone mentioned an Explorer not being much usable space, how did you have it packed? Were you at near total load density, like packed to the ceiling in the back? many put a layer on the floor, maybe something on top of that, and have a lot of dead air space above unused. A small platform or rack in the rear gives easier access to the cargo and allows better load density for the given space. Ive seen many on offroad type sites that had the rear almost solidly packed, and still had seating room in the middle.

[ragnar_d]

The trailer hitch cargo racks are pretty handy. I modified one to give about 10" more clearance so I didnt drag it on curbs or ditches and such. I made a simple plywood/(osb) box on mine the last road trip, it held a lot of stuff and cleared up space inside the vehicle.

Someone mentioned an Explorer not being much usable space, how did you have it packed? Were you at near total load density, like packed to the ceiling in the back? many put a layer on the floor, maybe something on top of that, and have a lot of dead air space above unused. A small platform or rack in the rear gives easier access to the cargo and allows better load density for the given space. Ive seen many on offroad type sites that had the rear almost solidly packed, and still had seating room in the middle.
The back (behind the second row)was fully packed. Middle row was occupied by the toddler and dog. The rear was packed up with rifle cases/water/coolers/totes for food & blackout supplies on the bottom, stroller on top of those, my backpack and the wife/kid's duffel bags on top of those. Rain gear and various other things were stuffed in the cracks and crevices and my "main" rifle, jump pack and 12V air pump rode in third row footwell. Some more kid stuff was on the floor in front of the car seat, doggo's stuff was on the floor in front of her seat. Downside would have been unloading all that crap on the side of the road in case of a flat (spare is under the third row seats).

Overall, the Explorer toted enough stuff to get us where we needed to go. Between pairing down on stuff we could have left behind and adding a hitch hauler, it probably would have been a deal better. The spare tire thing bugs me . . . I know the purpose for it, but I don't want to play tetris on the side of the road if I pop a tire. That's where a truck (or tastefully modified 4Runner) would have been better.

[Malamute]

Yeah, you had pretty good load density!

Ive gone from full size pickups with shells, to suburbans, and now to a 4Runner. The 4Runner is obviously not capable of carrying as much as the Suburban, but with the rear carrier its not too bad. A rooftop carrier may be useful in your situation also.

[LittleLebowski]

Excellent thread. I believe that I can contribute if I take the time to write up how I made a problematic Champion genny into a two pull to start on 14 month old gas, ultra reliable genny.

The stuff on ice in the deep freeze, the cheap rocket stove, and battery powered lanterns was very interesting, thanks to you all.

[David S.]

Active Response Training (Ellifritz) reviews Prepping For Life by Grant Cunningham. (http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/prepping-for-life)

[hufnagel]

going to add another two harbor freight items here...

1195# trailer (https://www.harborfreight.com/1195-lb-capacity-48-in-x-96-in-heavy-duty-folding-trailer-62666.html)
1720# trailer (https://www.harborfreight.com/1720-lb-capacity-48-in-x-96-in-super-duty-folding-trailer-62647.html)

both are their folding models, so they can pack away in a small foot print.
even the higher GW one can be safely pulled by your average sedan.
I've had the 1195# model for 13 years now and beat the piss out of it, still going.
get creative and you carry lots of things.

[scw2]

I just heard on a podcast that these may be eligible for purchase with HSA (health savings account) money. I hadn't really thought about it before but it does make sense.

Can confirm. Bought a lot of med stuff with my HSA. One year I priced out what I wanted and included that in my election, but it's also a great way to pick up something with leftover funds before they expire and slowly fill out additional kits.

ETA - looks like serious student beat me to it :)

[NEPAKevin]

...how I made a problematic Champion genny into a two pull to start on 14 month old gas, ultra reliable genny.



While my fifteen plus year old Coleman 8750 gets little use since the small fleet of inverter generators came on scene, I would be interested. Always like to have a back up for the back ups.

[hufnagel]

While my fifteen plus year old Coleman 8750 gets little use since the small fleet of inverter generators came on scene, I would be interested. Always like to have a back up for the back ups.

and that would be why even when I upgrade to a bigger generator I'll be keeping my current one. You never know when a rod is going to decide now is the PERFECT time to exit the block with style and gusto.

[NEPAKevin]

Firearm transport - Tool bags, golf caddys and storage totes are great for moving guns to a vehicle or trailer. Pistols and ammo go well in the Ridgid brand latching hard cases, they have a decent foam rubber gasket, are lockable and can be sat/stood/stacked on.



I know there's a thread somewhere re. discreetly transporting long guns but my PFsearchfu is not working. Saw this GA article (https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/garment-bag-rifle-case-vertx-bag-combines-best-worlds/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20170918_BlogDigest_243&utm_campaign=/blog/garment-bag-rifle-case-vertx-bag-combines-best-worlds/) over the weekend for the Vertx PROFESSIONAL RIFLE GARMENT BAG (http://vertx.com/professional-rifle-garment-bag) which might be of interest.

[rob_s]

and that would be why even when I upgrade to a bigger generator I'll be keeping my current one. You never know when a rod is going to decide now is the PERFECT time to exit the block with style and gusto.

I have a 6500W generator now that's DOA due to sitting with bad gas. Gets spark, crank pull super easy, but won't catch and run. I'm assuming gummed carb but I haven't tinkered with engines in 20 years. I was hoping to find someone in my area to un-gum it for me but obviously everyone is slammed now.

Which brings up an interesting subject: post-hurricane vendor availability.

There are quite a few things that were already on my radar as a homeowner to take care of that are now put off due to every vendor in the state being backlogged and/or prices being jacked up due to the panic.
1) impact windows and shutters.
2) generator repair.
3) whole-house generator install.
4) propane tank install & plumbing.
5) any sort of electrical work.
6) plumbing work (surprisingly lots of folks had plumbing issues come to a head during/after the storm)

It certainly pays to be the guy that plans for these things in the down time. Most, if not all, of the above are now put off until after the new year for me just because I don't want to pay the added cost to rush into it like everyone else.

[Malamute]

Rob, if you have a minor amount of time to mess with the generator, draining, siphoning or cheap turkey bastering the fuel out, adding fresh fuel, and a large amount of carb and injector cleaner added then pulling it a bit, let sit, pull some more, let sit, for the stuff to get in and dissolve the crud. Trying to start it off and on over a couple days may then be productive.

Theres a web site that lists places to get gas that doesnt have alcohol mixed in. Pure gas supposedly stores better with less gunk and less carb problems. Might be worth getting some in one of your cans if you get a chance.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

[schüler]

I have a 6500W generator now that's DOA due to sitting with bad gas. Gets spark, crank pull super easy, but won't catch and run.
...

Did it have a feature to reduce cylinder compression for pull starting, i.e., was it always a super easy pull start? Some engines have that feature. If it didn't have that feature I'd guess something wrong with the valvetrain (or the head or spark plug are unbolted!). Have you hit it with a bit of ether to see if it will run for a second?

[rob_s]

Rob, if you have a minor amount of time to mess with the generator, draining, siphoning or cheap turkey bastering the fuel out, adding fresh fuel, and a large amount of carb and injector cleaner added then pulling it a bit, let sit, pull some more, let sit, for the stuff to get in and dissolve the crud. Trying to start it off and on over a couple days may then be productive.

Theres a web site that lists places to get gas that doesnt have alcohol mixed in. Pure gas supposedly stores better with less gunk and less carb problems. Might be worth getting some in one of your cans if you get a chance.

https://www.pure-gas.org/

I did get the old gas out (still works great as a firestarter!) and I monkeyed with it a bit last year with fresh fuel (which I then drained again). I'll try the carb cleaner.




Did it have a feature to reduce cylinder compression for pull starting, i.e., was it always a super easy pull start? Some engines have that feature. If it didn't have that feature I'd guess something wrong with the valvetrain (or the head or spark plug are unbolted!). Have you hit it with a bit of ether to see if it will run for a second?

I don't know. It's not originally my generator as I wouldn't have left the gas sit in it. I don't think it had such a feature. I know the plug is getting spark because (a) I can see it and (b) I shocked myself last year.

[Ed L]

There are quite a few things that were already on my radar as a homeowner to take care of that are now put off due to every vendor in the state being backlogged and/or prices being jacked up due to the panic.
1) impact windows and shutters.
2

I don't know if you looked into the various roll down security shutters like these: https://www.shuttershack.com/products/securshutters/security-shutters.htm. I would be interested in hearing your opinion of them and opinions of people who live in Hurricane zones.

[Malamute]

Ive used the STP injector cleaner in the black bottle in my vehicles periodically to help the fuel system cleaned out. Seems to help if they get balky in cold weather or whenever. Probably any of the additive type cleaners will help though.

[Erik]

Not to push the thread too much further off track, but you might find a replacement carburetor is way cheaper than you thought. I found a brand new replacement carb for my lawnmower an amazon for less than the cost of a rebuild kit.

[hufnagel]

carb or brake cleaner and have someone else pull the cord. hold the throttle plate about half open, give it a quick blast of 'cleaner then have them pull it a couple times. repeat a couple times as you feel. if it catches for a second or so you know the motor still works. after that it's a matter of either trying to burp start it (tm) :D or spray some 'cleaner into the fuel inlet on the carb and let it sit. i'm betting with some time you'll get it started.

the other advice in here is good as well. honestly the carbs on small motors are stupid simple to take apart and put together, if you're just patient and careful.

[NEPAKevin]

... and have someone else pull the cord. .

This. Small engines should be no more complicated than fuel, air, spark and compression but nothing can make it feel personal like pulling that cord over and over. Stupidest I ever felt was when I was trying to start the generator the first time we actually needed it, after an ice storm had knocked the power out, and had the revelation that I had not checked to see if the fuel tank's shut off was turned on. It wasn't. Two pulls later... varoom.

[ragnar_d]

Rob, I had the same problem with my generator. Old gas sat in the carb and gummed it up. I ended up replacing it with a new one and setting the old one to the side as a project to see if I could rebuild the carb to have a spare. At the time (~2010-11) I thought Techumseh parts would be a bit of a problem to get ahold of in the long run.

As for the feature for reducing compression, the only one I ever saw that on was my buddy's diesel genset, but my exposure to small engines has greatly decreased in the past 10 years.


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[hufnagel]

This. Small engines should be no more complicated that fuel, air, spark and compression but nothing can makes it feel personal like pulling that cord over and over. Stupidest I ever felt was when I was trying to start the generator the first time we actually needed it, after an ice storm had knocked the power out, and had the revelation that I had not checked to see if the fuel tank's shut off was turned on. It wasn't. Two pulls later... varoom.

LOL.

Been there, done that, have the dunce hat to go with it.

[ragnar_d]

LOL.

Been there, done that, have the dunce hat to go with it.

Did the exact same thing on the test run for mine before Irma. Pulled the cord 4-5 times until I had a "Wait a minute, dum-dum . . ." moment.


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[David S.]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned yet. It might be worth getting a single window/wall mounted AC unit for one of the bedrooms. Something that size could be run off a portable generator and at least give you a place to escape the heat.

[SD]

After reading this thread I find a lot of good discussion. Sharing some of my RLE with the aforementioned topic, LP standby generators can suck a 1000 gallon tank in a weeks time, can you get resupplied? Portable generators, that piece of equipment in the garage or shed, got crap stacked on top of it, like a catch all that its primary use is. Needs to come out of storage twice a year, not only do you need to run it but the brushes need to take a charge. I keep approx. 1 gallon of fuel in it, and then run it dry each Spring and start the process over again (ethanol free). If a major storm is forecast, out it comes fueled up and test run, when the storm is over its drained back into a gas can. Water was for years not a problem we lived off a well that still had an old hand pump if needed, its funny how cold that water could be in summer. Now living in the burbs and hating the taste of municipal water we use a water brick system for the time being. It consists of eight containers of 3½ gl. I take the containers and fill them at a few of the national chain stores that have dispensing filter machines @ .30-.37 a gallon. Makes my coffee taste much better, I drink it black & strong.20151

[GuanoLoco]

Buy no-ethanol gas and treat with PRI-G (or PRI-D for diesel, which I haven't used).

I always store gas, rotate the gas every year or two, never run my small engines / 2 outboard motors dry, and haven't had a problem with fuel in years...

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Pri-g

Amazing stuff... Well worth the price.

[ragnar_d]

Ditto to what GL said. After replacing a carb because of E-10 sitting and turning into varnish/water, all my stored gas is E0 and treated with PRI-G and gets rotated out every 6-12 months. I still run the engines dry when I store them.


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[GuanoLoco]

I'll admit that I double the recommended dose of PRI-G. It doesn't seem cheap when you buy it but you can buy a LOT of PRI-G for the price of a single encounter with degraded fuel.

It also claims to help restore spoiled fuel. I'll admit to adding it to 'aged' gas, still no problems.

[Gadfly]

Taggin in to reply more later

I was TDY'ed to Key West the day after Irma. Lots of little things learned once we got there. Will reply in detail later.

[Lester Polfus]

I routinely keep about 30 gallons of gas on hand. I try to rotate it out after 6 months, but I admit it's gone up to a year sometimes.

I've used sta-boil and have had zero problems.

[Tensaw]

RE: ethanol vs. non-ethanol. One thing here is to not mix the E and non-E; per some chemist, this will create all sorts of problems. So if you are running non-E gas for emergency equipment, think about how you will re-supply that when things go sideways. I run non-E as in 2-cycles that get run in routine situations: weedeater, chainsaw, mower, and outboard. For the genny, its ethanol gas with Stabil (the marine version). I also run SeaFoam through it twice a year (along with almost everything else). I think Sea Foam is really just some over-priced solvent but it straights works and I think has kept me out of trouble with engines that have gas sitting in the tank. I dislike running them dry as I have had carb gaskets dry rot - the gas keeps them swole and juicy - but I could be doing it wrong. I killed an outboard carb by running untreated ethanol gas for a few years and just letting it sit in the off season (hence the non-e gas and treatment now). May try some PRI when the Stabil runs out. Thanks.

[jwperry]

I just saw that the WaterBob is back in stock at Amazon for $70 (http://amzn.to/2iTdJZF).

ETA: Never mind, that's a terrible price. They are only $24.95 at waterbob.com (https://waterbob.com/order-waterbob/) (i have no idea if they are in stock, I just went there looking for prices).I've been checking daily for both the waterBOB and aquapod. Neither has been back to pre-Harvey pricing

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[Drang]

Glad this thread was resurrected, since I missed it while Trying To reason With The Aftermath of Hurricane Season.

We hit Miami-Dade late on Thursday the 15th. Vast swathes of the county were still without power; heading down we saw power crews from as far away as up here in WA convoying down.

The first weekend down there we were running around checking nursing homes and the like, doing status checks. Most were doing fine. One was struggling, apparently it is President Trump's fault the manager was only able to rent a 1KW genset after the storm hit...

Residential window covers: Most houses I was seeing had corrugated iron/aluminum shutters that were hung on bolts at the top and bottom of the windows, or sheets of plywood. The prepared guys with sheet plywood had the sheets marked with which window or door it was supposed to go on.
We did see a few places where someone had framed in window shields out of dimensional lumber, and at least one that use old pallets as the basis for the shields.
We were not spending a lot of time in affluent neighborhoods, where the roll up (or sideways) shutters seemed to be more common.

Saw only a few houses that suffered a great deal of damage, all caused by falling trees. But almost everyone had damage from wind driven rain. Big blue tarps might be handy to stock up on; the Corps of Engineers will come around and secure a blue tarp to your leaky roof until the roofers can make it, but their waiting list kept getting longer, and longer... (We're talking 45 days before the inspector can even make it.)

Fuel:
Here a shot of a gas line on the way to Tallahassee:
22004
That was taken as we were pulling out. All inbound traffic was being funneled in an orderly line over the the pumps.
We did see a fight break out, although it never quite come to blows: Some entitled bimbo in a Beemer skipped the line, and pulled up to a pump from the wrong direction.

So, yeah, if you have spare gas cans and a safe way to carry them, do it.
This is not the only car we saw like this on the drive down:
22003
One guy, that we first saw somewhere up in Alabama, had one of those trailer hitch-mount cargo racks full of gas cans. We were speculating as to whether he was returning after bugging out, or smuggling gas.

Did anyone suggest a chain saw?
22005
Not just for storm clean up, but maybe for bug out, too.
Hart hat, gloves, eye and ear pro go with.

[Drang]

Comms: Handheld ham radios ("handy-talkies" or HTs) are available cheap these days; watch Amazon, and you can get a six pack of cheap ChiCom HTs for a C-note. (BaoFeng, others.)

Note that, while you are legally authorized to use any available means of commo in an emergency, licensed or not, but if you are bugging out, you're probably not going to be in what the FCC recognizes as "an emergency" the whole time. So either acquire CB, FRS, GMRS or MURS radios, or a ham license. (A Technician license costs $15, and is the test fairly easy.)

One advantage of ham radio is that, if the repeaters are operational, you can talk a hell of a lot further than line of sight, which other VHF radios are limited to.

Another advantage to ham radio is that there are digital modes (WIRES, pretty much moribund; DSTAR, regionally ubiquitous; Fusion, just introduced) which give you additional abilities, including transmitting digitized attachments, or potentially talking cross-country. (Using DSTAR I once had a conversation with a ham in ATL.)

Cell phones: While I was in Noo Yawk for Sandy, as late as Thanksgiving there were vast swathes of the city that had no cell service. So don't count on it; if you're going to be convoying, I'd suggest working out a planned route in advance, in case you get split up.

Finally, an excellent resource: LISTENING TO KATRINA (http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html)

[Malamute]

Comms: Handheld ham radios ("handy-talkies" or HTs) are available cheap these days; watch Amazon, and you can get a six pack of cheap ChiCom HTs for a C-note. (BaoFeng, others.)

Note that, while you are legally authorized to use any available means of commo in an emergency, licensed or not, but if you are bugging out, you're probably not going to be in what the FCC recognizes as "an emergency" the whole time. So either acquire CB, FRS, GMRS or MURS radios, or a ham license. (A Technician license costs $15, and is the test fairly easy.)

One advantage of ham radio is that, if the repeaters are operational, you can talk a hell of a lot further than line of sight, which other VHF radios are limited to.

Another advantage to ham radio is that there are digital modes (WIRES, pretty much moribund; DSTAR, regionally ubiquitous; Fusion, just introduced) which give you additional abilities, including transmitting digitized attachments, or potentially talking cross-country. (Using DSTAR I once had a conversation with a ham in ATL.)

Cell phones: While I was in Noo Yawk for Sandy, as late as Thanksgiving there were vast swathes of the city that had no cell service. So don't count on it; if you're going to be convoying, I'd suggest working out a planned route in advance, in case you get split up.

Finally, an excellent resource: LISTENING TO KATRINA (http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/klessons/index.html)

Some good points in several aspects, especially having a plan to follow in case a group gets split up, you know where to expect people, and can have pre-determined meeting points. If one doesnt pan out, go to the next. At some point communications should improve, and either cells work again, or something like bookface msgs could be left. It was noted that in the exodus from the fighting in Iraq and Syria, bookface was about the only way some people were able to make contact in strange places and questionable cell availability, and if phones were stolen, lost, or damaged in transit.

The link of Katrina lessons is good, Ive read it several times in the past, and if my sleep deprived fuzzy memory is correct, may have mentioned it earlier in this thread, Ive brought it up before a few times here and there, just dont recall exactly where and when. He makes good points about electronically duplicating all important family pictures, documents and such. If the one and only copy gets burned up or washed away, its gone. Copies can replace them. As simple as taking decent pictures of them with a digital camera, same for documents.

Ive come to a truce with my dislike of electric chain saws after being loaned one to cut up some firewood when I cant run a gas saw. Turns out I was able to get someone else to run the cheapo saw, but it did much better than I expected. One in a vehicle, with a good grade heavy duty cord (not a crappy thin drop light grade cord), and decent inverter would eliminate dealing with fuel storage in a vehicle, and give at least some cutting ability. They are also fairly cheap for a pretty basic one and light weight. One will be in my camp gear when Im able to do some backcountry camping again.

[hufnagel]

Since you mentioned electric chain saws, I went and did some digging...
(images are links)

https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/1/61592_zzz_alt1_500_2.jpg (https://www.harborfreight.com/9-amp-14-in-electric-chain-saw-61592.html)
$47.99
Needs at least 1100W to run though, so keep that in mind.
I bought one of these many years ago (it was red then) to deal with a diseased/dying 40' tall chestnut tree. The chain was toast after I was done, but it cut the tree down and chopped it all up into bits, so it was cheaper than a tree service. :D

https://shop.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/6/2/62942_zzz_500.jpg (https://www.harborfreight.com/50-ft-x-12-gauge-outdoor-extension-cord-62942.html)
$37.99
50' 12ga
Of course, watch for sales and 20% or 25% off coupons.

[Drang]

I've got two small electric chain saws, which were toast after cleaning up after last February's snow and ice storm.Although it's not entirely their fault, my father-in-law has spent a lot of time guying limbs on the tree lout back with ropes, some of which were actually cables, and the anchor bolts, well, you get the idea.
22007
Also have a Black & Decker LP1000 Alligator Lopper 4.5-Amp Electric Chain Saw (https://www.amazon.com/Decker-LP1000-Alligator-4-5-Amp-Electric/dp/B000BANMUY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1511973357&sr=8-1&keywords=alligator+loppers), which is like a 6 inch chain saw, so unsuitable for most of this work but invaluable for clean up work. I see they now have a cordless version, I can't imagine how many battery packs it would take.

Worx also now has versions of that, but, again, I think all of the Worx tools are battery powered...

[Drang]

a good grade heavy duty cord (not a crappy thin drop light grade cord), and decent inverter would eliminate dealing with fuel storage in a vehicle, and give at least some cutting ability.
Something I found useful in my response work (which was computer intensive) is a power strip/surge protector with 2 or more USB charging ports, and a relatively short (10 foot) heavy duty extension cord. The more USB ports it has the fewer AC outlets it needs, since it will probably spend more time charging cell phones or tablets than running appliances.

Also, a few extra long charging cables; I found one that has USB micro, USB C, and Lightning ends, so unless someone with retro iPhone comes along, the majority of charging needs are covered. (I like the newer cables with the woven exterior, although the flat ones, like a phone cord, are also handy.") (Amazon.com: multi purpose usb cable (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=a9_sc_1?rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Amulti+purpose+usb+cab le&keywords=multi+purpose+usb+cable&ie=UTF8&qid=1511974576))

Also also, one or more 12V vehicle ("cigarette lighter") adapters, preferably with two USB ports. Many newer cars have USB charging ports, and 110 outlets, built in, but experience shows that there will always be one more person wanting to charge/run their device than their are outlets.

BTW, those 100 outlets, and many inverters with 110 outlets as well, do not actually push enough juice to run or charge a laptop, so check that before you need it.

The cable show "Doomday Preppers" was BS (as evidenced by the lawsuits over "misrepresentation") but one thing they did was show the people that were misrepresented actually doing run throughs; i,e., "does this 110V outlet charge my laptop"?

[TQP]

I've done a lot of tree limbing with recip saws with either regular 6TPI wood blades, or special pruning blades. Looks like the longest pruning blades I can find are 12 inch. You would think, for a given amperage, the sawzall would do better since it's not trying to cut as wide a kerf.

It'd also take up less room and be more versatile than the chainsaw, especially if you had to do rehab/demo/cleanup at your destination.

I've done a very small amount of limbing with my cordless recip saw. I wasn't expecting much, and I was pleasantly surprised.

[Malamute]

I had thought about a sawzall being useful, but I dont think its a direct comparison with a chain saw. To cut some of the mill slabs I had for firewood with a sawzall would have taken ages. The electric chain saw wasnt as fast as a good gas saw, but was certainly faster than a sawzall. The sawzall is usefull though. I used one for helping break brush/log jams on a bridge over a creek that was running very high. The jams were brush and trees washed down by the fast snowmelt. I think the largest ones I cut were probably 5-6". The largest mill slab my neighbor cut for me was about 8" thick and 12" wide. I think limbing youd be OK, larger stuff may turn out to be more work than one may wish.

The sawzall I used on the log jam was cordless, I had it with me when going to work, and no power was available. If the bridge washed out, I wasnt going to be able to get to work for some time, so I joined in. One problem was I ended up sticking it under water a bit, (the entire bridge was overflowing with water at that point) and its been weird ever since. I hose the reciprocating ram with oil and it stops squawking for a while. It goes through batteries pretty fast with heavy stuff, but could still be useful for some aspects of cutting obstructions out, and of course is usable on metal. I did notice if using the car charger for the Dewalt 18v batteries, one was OK, two would kill the battery so the truck wouldnt start. It had to be running to do much charging. An inverter and 110v tool of course deals with that, but the cordless is still a useful tool. I nearly always have my cordless drill and a couple batteries with me anyways, to the tool doesnt add much.

[TQP]

In my case, I started using it because that's what I had when I had to deal with a blowdown tree, and it worked well enough that I didn't feel the need to go out and buy a chainsaw. It's served me fairly well for the light duty tree cutting I've done since.

Definitely not fast, as you said. Your post makes me want to go out and buy an electric chainsaw, for those couple times a year. I'd probably spend more time maintaining a gas saw than I would actually using it.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I know the hardhat talk ended a couple of pages back (more like ten pages if you aren't a lazy traitorous non-ad-clicking frostback) but it's one thing I have a couple of thoughts on.

Obviously I'm pretty committed to off-grid stuff a large percentage of the time but my environment and threats are really different so a lot of what I'd offer doesn't apply. But here's one thing:

I have spent years and years wearing hardhats.

They will protect you, maybe, from a wrench dropped off the roof of a house. If they stay on. If you lean forward in the rain they probably aren't staying on. If you're in serious wind, they're not staying on unless you wear the chinstrap which sucks and is exactly the chinstrap attachment that comes with a suspension system on a $12 piece of mandatory safety gear.

If you want to do hard hats right, get a fiberglass ironworker's hard hat. Huge improvement. But don't do that.


https://www.rei.com/media/8b7e0cb9-cd10-438d-bc7e-e980dcf9eaf5?size=1020x510

Get yourself a Grivel/Petzl/Black Diamond etc rock climbing helmet. This is gear that was developed for athletes who could opt out, so it's comfortable. It stays on. It's for climbing so it's light and the suspension is better. And if you need protection, it offers some. Unlike typical hardhats, which I actually saw someone get a concussion through, as the result of thorough and committed interaction with 1.25" rebar.




We have wind-related emergencies here but they don't involve airborne debris really. Just big trees crushing things when they fall, and big waves smashing boats, which feel very small at times.

[Drang]

Get yourself a Grivel/Petzl/Black Diamond etc rock climbing helmet.

I noticed at Amateur Radio Field Day that when the rest of us were putting on our $10 Lowes hard hats (or freebies through CERT) that the Urban Search and rescue guys were putting on rock climbing brain buckets.

[Drang]

Apocalypse Chow: How to Eat Well When the Power Goes Out (https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Chow-Well-When-Power/dp/1416908242/ref=la_B0028831FS_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1512122081&sr=1-3)

The Storm Gourmet: A Guide to Creating Extraordinary Meals Without Electricity (https://www.amazon.com/Storm-Gourmet-Creating-Extraordinary-Electricity/dp/1561643343/ref=la_B001JRXMGW_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1512122154&sr=1-1) (Also available on Kindle, for the optimists...)

The Prepper's Cookbook: 300 Recipes to Turn Your Emergency Food into Nutritious, Delicious, Life-Saving Meals (https://www.amazon.com/Preppers-Cookbook-Emergency-Nutritious-Life-Saving/dp/1612431291/ref=pd_sim_14_1?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=SEAPX8P57TZVXNPZAHN5)

I have read the first two, but not the third one.

The author of Apocalypse Chow is a vegan, FWIW.
Full disclosure: it's been a long time since I actually looked at it, but IIRC the author was living in FL at the time he wrote it, and the recipes tended heavily to "Using mangos I picked from the backyard..."
(Granted we made guacamole from avocadoes we gleaned from a church we were set up at. "Go ahead, we can't give them all away..." Pretty good stuff.)

Some of the ingredients used in The Storm Gourmet may be a bit... esoteric. (Tamarind paste? Really?)

[peterb]

Just got this:

https://disasterinfo.nlm.nih.gov/dimrc/dis_courses/digital_go_bag/index.html

Apps that may be useful in a disaster situation.

[Drang]

Goo done.

For my fellow Washingtonians: RRAIN Washington (http://rrain.org/), Response and Recovery App in Washington State. Link goes to web version, there are also Android and iPhone versions. Check out the "Digital Go Bag" page.

The good news is, hurricanes are one thing we don't have to deal with here. The bad news: We still have high straight line winds, and occasional tornadoes...

[Cookie Monster]

Goo done.

For my fellow Washingtonians: RRAIN Washington (http://rrain.org/), Response and Recovery App in Washington State. Link goes to web version, there are also Android and iPhone versions. Check out the "Digital Go Bag" page.

The good news is, hurricanes are one thing we don't have to deal with here. The bad news: We still have high straight line winds, and occasional tornadoes...

Wildfires for us dry siders, snow and flooding as well...

[ragnar_d]

I've done a lot of tree limbing with recip saws with either regular 6TPI wood blades, or special pruning blades. Looks like the longest pruning blades I can find are 12 inch. You would think, for a given amperage, the sawzall would do better since it's not trying to cut as wide a kerf.

It'd also take up less room and be more versatile than the chainsaw, especially if you had to do rehab/demo/cleanup at your destination.

I've done a very small amount of limbing with my cordless recip saw. I wasn't expecting much, and I was pleasantly surprised.
I've got some pruning blades for my reciprocating saw from Amazon (Porter Cable PC760R 9-Inch Pruning Reciprocating Saw Blades) that have done well. Only downside is that my old Ryobi cordless saw doesn't have much oomph for very long (looking to upgrade to lithium batteries or something). I much prefer a corded tool when I'm using a saw.

One investment I was looking to make to supplement my little gas saw was an electric chainsaw. The Oregon CS1500 was the model I was looking at. Nice little side benefit was the "self sharpening" chain. It wouldn't clear a whole lot, but would probably do what I needed it to do. Between that, and RS, and a gas chainsaw I could probably take care of the tree clearing situations.


I know the hardhat talk ended a couple of pages back (more like ten pages if you aren't a lazy traitorous non-ad-clicking frostback) but it's one thing I have a couple of thoughts on.

Get yourself a Grivel/Petzl/Black Diamond etc rock climbing helmet. This is gear that was developed for athletes who could opt out, so it's comfortable. It stays on. It's for climbing so it's light and the suspension is better. And if you need protection, it offers some. Unlike typical hardhats, which I actually saw someone get a concussion through, as the result of thorough and committed interaction with 1.25" rebar.

This is something that I've thought of and have actually gotten lax on. I know I've bumped my head a few times clearing up after a storm, but it hit home when a story ran on a lady in Florida (I think) being killed when a limb landed on er head after a storm. I was "issued" a cheapo hard hat when I joined our neighborhood CERT team in Orlando (actually looked at upgrading just about every single piece of stuff I was issued except the Rite In The Rain "Field Operating Guide"). I started looking at something more substantial for the exact reasons you mentioned. I'd never thought about the rock climbing helmet. I'd looked at non-ballistic OpsCore/Team Wendy helmets.

It's still something I should look into at one point even though I'm not dealing with CERT anymore . . .


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[schüler]

... Only downside is that my old Ryobi cordless saw doesn't have much oomph for very long (looking to upgrade to lithium batteries or something). I much prefer a corded tool when I'm using a saw.
...



If you're looking for Li system investment... Makita has their X2 system. It simply uses (2) regular 18 volt batteries for higher power tools to include chain saw. Quite a line up. I get most of my stuff on ebay or craigslist.

That said, Milwaukee has really expanded their line the last few years. In some ways better than Makita - excepting the X2 stuff. I like Milw's automotive-related stuff, a lot of which is rebranded by Mac Tools.

[ragnar_d]

If you're looking for Li system investment... Makita has their X2 system. It simply uses (2) regular 18 volt batteries for higher power tools to include chain saw. Quite a line up. I get most of my stuff on ebay or craigslist.

That said, Milwaukee has really expanded their line the last few years. In some ways better than Makita - excepting the X2 stuff. I like Milw's automotive-related stuff, a lot of which is rebranded by Mac Tools.

I picked up a Dewalt 20V MAX setup about two years ago but only have two tools (drill and impact driver) and had been leaning towards that for future upgrades. I have heard good things about what Milwaukee is doing with their line though and my dad had a Makita when I was growing up that we just couldn't kill.


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[jwperry]

WaterBOB is in stock at Amazon at the MSRP of $34.95 (http://amzn.to/2iTdJZF) with free Prime shipping. However, they are still available for $24.95 plus $5 shipping at waterbob.com ($5 less than Amazon). Now is probably a good time to buy one if you want one.I bought 5 as soon as they came back in stock. Don't worry, I used the Amazon affiliate link! :)

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