Any "Bargain" brands worth carrying?

[SSGN_Doc]

So, when the ammo crunch was going pretty hard I was having some difficulty finding HSTs or Gold Dots at my regular source. When things started to improve in availability I noticed more of the "Bargain stuff" starting to return to shelves. Examples would be the Remington 115 GR JHP at WalMart, Winchester USA 115 gr and 147 Gr Personal Defense ammo, Federal Classic, Hornaday Custom, and their newer line of American Gunner which use XTP bullets that were "the rage" a couple decades ago.


Any of these that have any decent data from the good doctor?

[Velo Dog]

From Hornady 2011 TAP report

-----------------------------Bare Gelatin Performance Test-----------------------

Ammunition: 9mm 124 XTP 9mm 147 XTP

Weapon: Glock 19 Glock 19

Velocity: 1028 996

Total Penetration: 13" 15.25"

Max. bullet expansion (in): .610" .520"

Retained weight (grains): 123.8 138.5

-------------------------Heavy Clothing Gelatin Performance Test-----------------

Ammunition: 9mm 124 XTP 9mm 147 XTP

Velocity: 1057 1005

Total Penetration: 18.75" 17.5"

Max. bullet expansion (in): .490" .530"

Retained weight (grains): 123.6 146.9

--------------------------Sheet Metal Gelatin Performance Test-------------------

Ammunition: 9mm 124 XTP 9mm 147 XTP

Velocity: 1029 1009

Total Penetration: 18.25" 16.25"

Max. bullet expansion (in): .440" .510"

Retained weight (grains): 123.1 114.9

Notes: Jacket
separation

---------------------------Sheet Rock Gelatin Performance Test------------------

Ammunition: 9mm 124 XTP 9mm 147 XTP

Velocity: 1051 992

Total Penetration: 14.75" 18.00"

Max. bullet expansion (in): .510" .460"

Retained weight (grains): 123.6 146.6

---------------------------Auto Glass Gelatin Performance Test -------------------

Ammunition: 9mm 124 XTP 9mm 147 XTP

Velocity: 1034 985

Total Penetration: 10.50" 12"

Max. bullet expansion (in): .595" .570"

Retained weight (grains): 86.1(1) 98.8(1)

Notes: (1) Jacket separated from the lead core

[Kyle Reese]

If you're a 9x19 shooter, now might be a good time to stock up on your favorite DocGKR approved carry load, considering favorable political climate on the Federal level.

Federal P9HST3 (124 grain +P JHP) can be had for $18.25 (https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/on-sale/products/9mm-124gr-p-federal-premium-tactical-hst-jhp-50rds-p9hst3) per 50 round box.

Might be worth investing in a case or two of your favorite carry ammo, so you're not having to settle for a less optimal selection if/when another 2013 style ammo crunch occurs.

[Velo Dog]

http://winchesterle.com/Products/handgun-ammunition/usa/jhp/Pages/USA9JHP.aspx

Winchester USA9JHP 9mm Luger 115 gr. JHP

Muzzle Velocity: 1225

Barrel Length: 4.00"

----------------BARE GELATIN----HEAVY CLOTH----WALLBOARD----PLYWOOD----STEEL----AUTOGLASS----

PENETRATION..........9.1......................11.6 ...............11.4................13............1 5.3...........8.8
EXPANSION.............0.66.....................0.5 8...............0.54................0.53.........0 .47...........0.47
RET WT.%...............94........................99... ...............99..................100.........100 ...........62
RET WT. GR. ..........110.......................113........... .....113.................115...........115........ ...71

[Velo Dog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVQNJoo08a0&index=18&list=PLgNSGOEQko_M90AMdRCDMgd-w4Yozc27i

[hufnagel]

I miss the Shooting The Bull guy. I liked his work.

[SSGN_Doc]

If you're a 9x19 shooter, now might be a good time to stock up on your favorite DocGKR approved carry load, considering favorable political climate on the Federal level.

Federal P9HST3 (124 grain +P JHP) can be had for $18.25 (https://www.bonefroggunclub.com/collections/on-sale/products/9mm-124gr-p-federal-premium-tactical-hst-jhp-50rds-p9hst3) per 50 round box.

Might be worth investing in a case or two of your favorite carry ammo, so you're not having to settle for a less optimal selection if/when another 2013 style ammo crunch occurs.

That is a fantastic price. I can't buy some of the "Generic" stuff for that price. Thanks.

[Kyle Reese]

That is a fantastic price. I can't buy some of the "Generic" stuff for that price. Thanks.You bet. I believe that if you purchase a case of 1000, shipping is free.

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[holmes168]

I miss the Shooting The Bull guy. I liked his work.

Do you know what happened to hm?

[hufnagel]

Do you know what happened to hm?

nope.

If I had to guess, maybe money/sponsors ran dry, especially with youfool screwing everyone.

eta: a couple minutes digging around, and there's some traffic about him having major health issues. here's hoping he recovers.

[LtDave]

I’ve found Federal XM9001, a 115 classic JHP, shoots tight groups (sub 2”) and POA/POI in several of my guns. Allegedly an RCMP over run and supposedly +p but not marked as such. Velocity is 1225 fps, about midway between 9bp (1180 fps) and 9pble +p+ (1300 fps). Seems more accurate in my guns than those loads. All I can find now is case quantities, running about $15/box. Don’t wait if you want to try it. IMI 115 gr Di-Cut and Ex-Star JHPs are pretty good in the accuracy department, but youtube gel tests haven’t wowed me. Better than ball, but otherwise marginal IMHO. I’d carry the Di-Cut if that was the only JHP I could get. Pricing is a little higher than the XM9001.

[RevolverRob]

If (when) push comes to shove in this realm. I have a few options I prefer.

1) Buffalo Bore ammo loaded with the Barnes bullet. Until the height, height, height of the last ammo shortage, Buffalo Bore could still be found on the shelf at Cabelas and/or ordered online. Yes - it's expensive as hell ($30/20 rounds), but it beats carrying something that I don't have as much faith in. I'd willingly carry BB if HST or Gold Dots were unavailable.

2) Federal 9BPLE. A classic load that I stocked up on years ago, when it was cheap as hell. I could find it soon after ammo started coming back. This is a load I would trust in a 4" or longer barrel. I bought a bunch of it to feed in my 9mm AR and it goes like hell and expands nicely from a 16" barrel. I have faith in it working right in a full-size gun.

3) 124-grain XTP be it: Fiocchi Extrema XTP/Hornady Custom XTP/Most Brands XTP - caveat if loaded at 1200 FPS or more and fired from a full size gun.

The thing that makes 9mm JHPs work today, is the way they are made. Older hollow point designs just aren't as effective as the current ones, unless fired at a hefty velocity (e.g., 9BPLE). The XTP is a borderline bullet and while I'd make due, it wouldn't make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Given my druthers, if I couldn't find a reasonable supply of my 4th choice (9BPLE), I'd probably switch to another caliber. This is where caliber diversity does pay dividends. At the height of the 2008/09 ammo shortage, I still had on my shelf quality JHPs in .357 Sig, .38 Super, 10mm, .41 Magnum, .44 Special/Mag, .45 Long Colt, and .500 S&W Mag.

[Hambo]

Before Winchester 127gr +P+ came out we used 9BPLE in handguns. I also remember Hydra-Shok, probably 115gr, so it's possible that we went back and forth based on price. We didn't go total low bidder, but we had some bargain hunters buying stuff. Based on results you could say they worked very well in our OIS, but the results were probably more a measure of the officer's ability than the JHP's effectiveness. I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep if I had to carry that generation of ammo again.

[KhanRad]

For 9mm I wouldn't go "bargain". Usually if you keep your eyes open you can find great deals on quality JHPs that are on Doc's List. For my "stash" of SHTF 9mm I have several thousand of my own reloaded Speer 124gr Gold Dots loaded to velocities right in between standard pressure and +P.

For some reason I like to carry .45acp in recent years which tends to go against the grain with most operators now days. My SHTF stash for that is just GI ball velocity 230gr FMJ loaded with Vihtavuori match powder for competition level accuracy(about $.19 per shot). Otherwise I carry 230gr HSTs.

[deputyG23]

I’ve found Federal XM9001, a 115 classic JHP, shoots tight groups (sub 2”) and POA/POI in several of my guns. Allegedly an RCMP over run and supposedly +p but not marked as such. Velocity is 1225 fps, about midway between 9bp (1180 fps) and 9pble +p+ (1300 fps). Seems more accurate in my guns than those loads. All I can find now is case quantities, running about $15/box. Don’t wait if you want to try it. IMI 115 gr Di-Cut and Ex-Star JHPs are pretty good in the accuracy department, but youtube gel tests haven’t wowed me. Better than ball, but otherwise marginal IMHO. I’d carry the Di-Cut if that was the only JHP I could get. Pricing is a little higher than the XM9001.

I bought a case of this about a year ago and chronographed it through my old G19. 1221 fps and 1258 fps for 9BPLE. I would carry either one with confidence for off duty/self defense.

[Unobtanium]

So, when the ammo crunch was going pretty hard I was having some difficulty finding HSTs or Gold Dots at my regular source. When things started to improve in availability I noticed more of the "Bargain stuff" starting to return to shelves. Examples would be the Remington 115 GR JHP at WalMart, Winchester USA 115 gr and 147 Gr Personal Defense ammo, Federal Classic, Hornaday Custom, and their newer line of American Gunner which use XTP bullets that were "the rage" a couple decades ago.


Any of these that have any decent data from the good doctor?

If I were forced to use bargain ammunition, I would pick whatever shot the softest and most accurately in the "heavy for caliber" arena. I would also pick a JHP or FP if possible. Reason being, accuracy with a handgun is the deciding factor, so long as it penetrates well enough, regardless of how sexy the bullet is.

[LSP552]

Win white box 147 gr was at one time (not sure now, out of the loop) was the same bullet as the 147 OSM that started the 147 gr thing. LSP used the original Win 147 OSM and put a few people in the dirt with it without any horror stories.

[Clay]

I'm perfectly content with carrying the white box loads from Winchester and Federal as well as the less popular UMC/Express line from Remington, if/when I run out of HST and Golden Saber. Federal's 9MS is my favorite, followed by the infamous 9BPLE. I have a stock of both of them, along with the Canadian XM9001.

I also purchased a case of Magtech's First Defense Bonded 147 JHP's along with a case of Federal 124 gr Hydra Shock, both for a great sale price from SG Ammo earlier this year. I have no idea how the Magtech stuff performs in gel. I imagine 18" or so of penetration with limited expansion. It does feed in everything I've tried it in, FWIW.

[Velo Dog]

Here's one guy's opinion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQtmbW4uGMY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQtmbW4uGMY

He tests the Winchester white box 147 gr. JHP loading and finds it works reasonably well

[5pins]

Not sure if it's worth carrying or not but sometimes, for a variety of reasons, people carry the cheap stuff. Here is a test I did on the WWB 115gr JHP.

https://generalcartridge.wordpress.com/2017/12/01/winchester-white-box-9mm-115gr-jhp-in-clear-ballistics-gel/

[DocGKR]

The older designs tend to plug up in heavy clothing and break apart against auto glass.

Given the ready availability of modern robust performing Speer Gold Dots, Barnes all copper bullets, Hornady Critical Duty, Winchester Ranger Bonded/PDX1, Fed HST, etc... there is not a lot of reason to use older designs, except for practice...

[Hambo]

He tests the Winchester white box 147 gr. JHP loading and finds it works reasonably well

Shooting watermelon and ribs.

[Velo Dog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhYDihaWkS0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhYDihaWkS0

[Kyle Reese]

The older designs tend to plug up in heavy clothing and break apart against auto glass.

Given the ready availability of modern robust performing Speer Gold Dots, Barnes all copper bullets, Hornady Critical Duty, Winchester Ranger Bonded/PDX1, Fed HST, etc... there is not a lot of reason to use older designs, except for practice...At $17.75 per 50 rounds for 147 grain 9mm HST, one could budget a few boxes for practice use.

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[TGS]

I don't understand the point of selecting a cheap carry load to go to when a 2013 ammo drought hits.

It's carry ammo. Beyond function checking when you initially purchase it, don't shoot it. It's not a perishable food, it doesn't go bad. Buy 250-500 rounds of it at minimum, load your mags and put the rest away.

It doesn't magically disappear when the next ammo drought hits, and there's no reason to shoot it unless you're BOPE and shoot so many bad dudes that you run through your annual allotment of JHP ammo within the first month of the new year.

[Hambo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhYDihaWkS0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhYDihaWkS0

Current listings on sgammo:

http://www.sgammo.com/product/winchester/50-round-box-9mm-luger-147-grain-jhp-hollow-point-winchester-white-box-ammo Out of stock but priced at $22.95/50.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer/50-round-box-9mm-speer-gold-dot-147-grain-hollow-point-gdhp-ammo-53619 Same price $22.50/50

http://www.sgammo.com/product/federal/50-round-box-9mm-luger-federal-hst-147-grain-hollow-point-le-ammo-p9hst2 HST is cheaper at $19.95/50

At best there is better ammo cheaper, and worst case better ammo for the same price.

[Kyle Reese]

Bone Frog Gun Club currently has 1000 round cases of 9mm Federal HST 147 grain ammunition for $355.

Prices continue to drop, so purchasing a case or two might not be the worst idea in the world.....

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