That Akward Moment When You Get Your Ass Beat AND Your Gun Stolen

[Cypher]

Police: Suspect arrested after assaulting man, stealing his gun | FOX21News.com (http://fox21news.com/2017/08/30/police-suspect-arrested-after-assaulting-man-stealing-his-gun/)

Long story short, the "victim" is riding his scooter on the sidewalk when he sees a vagrant laying on the side walk. Instead of driving around the guy the scooter driver starts an altercation with him and demands he get off the sidewalk. The vagrant threatens our hero who then displays his OC firearm. Then the vagrant administers an educational beat down and steals the scooter driver's gun.


Some things aren't clear in the story:

I don't know if "Scooter" is a motor bike or a skateboard with a motor.

The story says scooter guy "displayed" his firearm I don't know if he drew it or turned his body to show the vagrant the gun.

This happened about a block from my house I do know that the area is very open and scooter guy would have had ample opportunity to just drive around the guy and continue on his way. He kinda put himself in that situation.

If you don't feel like reading the whole story the cops caught the vagrant and the gun a few blocks away

[eb07]

OC = Amateur carry

[JohnO]

They should lock up the vagrant and ban the OC cowboy from carrying anything more dangerous than a sharp stick.

[GardoneVT]

Samaritan Carry strikes again. If you offer your fellow citizen a gun, they might just take it.

[Cypher]

OK I posted this story because I think it's funny and I think scooter guy is a dumbass but I don't think open carry was his only mistake. I don't even think it was his biggest.

The area were this happened is on giant strip mall in all directions. I'm still not sure what they mean by "scooter" but even if they mean a motorized wheel chair the guy had any number of opportunities to turn into a parking lot and drive right around the problem without ever even interacting with the guy. Open carry would have played no part

He didn't have to push the issue. He could have driven his scooter away even one of those motorized skate boards would get him away faster than the guy could run. Open carry would have played no part

The story says there was an altercation and he displayed his firearm. That was his whole plan and when it didn't work he didn't know how to defend himself or the gun and he lost the gun. Maybe open carry played into this but I'm guessing he would have showed the gun even if he had it concealed.

There's more here than just a dumb open carry story. This guy made a bunch of mistakes but I think his big one was thinking just having a gun was all he needed.

[GardoneVT]

OK I posted this story because I think it's funny and I think scooter guy is a dumbass but I don't think open carry was his only mistake. I don't even think it was his biggest.


Au contraire. It is always a big mistake when non-uniformed folk openly carry a weapon in urban spaces.

I call it Samaritan carry for a reason- openly wearing a gun only makes it easier for others to take it. You don't even need a fight to disarm someone.

[Cypher]

Au contraire. It is always a big mistake when non-uniformed folk openly carry a weapon in urban spaces.

I call it Samaritan carry for a reason- openly wearing a gun only makes it easier for others to take it. You don't even need a fight to disarm someone.

I didn't say open carry wasn't a mistake. I said it wasn't his only mistake and I said it wasn't his biggest mistake. Based on what I read in the article he had at least a couple of chances to avoid the entire confrontation in which open carry would have played no part. He could have avoided confrontation as easily unarmed as armed.
That's kind of the point that I'm making

[wvincent]

So OC scooter driver went looking for a problem and found it? And got disarmed? The only thing this story lacks the dunce having a "sheep dog" sash or CC Badge.
So much for the "magic talisman" effect of firearms.

[Hambo]

Long story short, the "victim" is riding his scooter

That's all you needed to say. Around here, all the people who ride scooters seem to be dipshits.

[lwt16]

Open carry folks need to understand that there are some people in this world (and after being in LE for 21 years, there's a whole lot of em with this mentality) that aren't the least bit impressed if you display a gun to them.

Matter of fact, some of them are just a little crazy and love a good confrontation. They like the "challenge" of it, so to speak and will disarm you in a New York minute......just to add to their street cred resume and to sell your gun on the street for folding money.

We have had it happen locally and it's always a bit embarrassing for the victim to admit to the part where they pretty much started the confrontation like in this instance. Lots of folks think that if you show your heater to someone, they will instantly back down and comply with being "big boy'd".

I always stuck to the good old mentality of being armed (off duty and concealed) and avoiding confrontations like the plague. Here, the department will scar up one of us big time for getting involved in "drama" off the clock. If it ain't a serious felony where lives are at stake, call it in and be a witness.

Someone blocking a sidewalk? Confronting them and getting my gun stolen? No thanks. Not only would that get me fired my coworkers would laugh about that for decades.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

OK I posted this story because I think it's funny and I think scooter guy is a dumbass but I don't think open carry was his only mistake. I don't even think it was his biggest.

The area were this happened is on giant strip mall in all directions. I'm still not sure what they mean by "scooter" but even if they mean a motorized wheel chair the guy had any number of opportunities to turn into a parking lot and drive right around the problem without ever even interacting with the guy. Open carry would have played no part

He didn't have to push the issue. He could have driven his scooter away even one of those motorized skate boards would get him away faster than the guy could run. Open carry would have played no part

The story says there was an altercation and he displayed his firearm. That was his whole plan and when it didn't work he didn't know how to defend himself or the gun and he lost the gun. Maybe open carry played into this but I'm guessing he would have showed the gun even if he had it concealed.

There's more here than just a dumb open carry story. This guy made a bunch of mistakes but I think his big one was thinking just having a gun was all he needed.

It almost never helps to be a dick...I don't open carry myself, and I work at not being a dick. Of the Farnam, "Avoidance, Deterrence, and Deescalation," triad, I really do my best to avoid and move about invisibly...until I have to spring into action. I recommend others do the same.

When I worked the bread trucks we had a guy that was all bravado and sass. Until one day he got targeted by a professional turd at a Costco foodcourt, who came up behind him, took his back, disarmed him, and relieved him of several hundred thousand dollars in deposits. He then absconded out the back door to a getaway vehicle and was never apprehended.

My point is, "be nice until it's time to not be nice anymore," and even more so if you OC.


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[Stephanie B]

Someone blocking a sidewalk? Confronting them and getting my gun stolen? No thanks. Not only would that get me fired my coworkers would laugh about that for decades.

And so would the Internet. Every time somebody searched your name.


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[45dotACP]

OC level: rascal

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[Glenn E. Meyer]

Being polite escapes some people. Had a similar incident happen to an idiot from work (no OC). He went to the local Mexican restaurant in a sketchy area. Vagrant stops him for a handout. Rather than give him a buck or a polite refusal, he gives a speech about getting a job as he works for a living. Blah, blah. So he ends up with a concussion and a broken bone or two.

This is a funny story on such, not to divert. When I was in college, I needed a good typewriter. They were expensive. My uncle said he could get a good deal on a very high end (sketchy deal, unc was sketchy). So Unc, Dad and moi go to a sketchy warehouse district in Manhattan to get the typewriter. We do. Driving down a sketchy street, a vagrant stops and asks Unc (driving for some change). Unc deals him to get a job and work. My Dad laughs at this from sketchy uncle employment. Anyway, this annoys the vagrant who whips out a fish from his dirty old overcoat and wipes it on the windshield of Unc's car and run. Unc yells and screams. Ever try to get fish goo off the windshield with wipers. Don't try. Dad and I having heart attacks of laughter. Not an OC moment but good ol' NYC.

Just avoided a very sketchy looking guy in weird robes at the gas station. Wanted money for a cigarette. Said, I was sorry nicely and kept walking quickly.

IMHO, OC is 95% for the monkey dominance dance. If one of those OC long arms ever comes off the shoulder at a political demonstration, you will kiss OC good bye.

[NEPAKevin]

That's all you needed to say. Around here, all the people who ride scooters seem to be dipshits.

I used to frequent a gun store called American Sport Shooting, or ASS for short. The owner and his side kick both rode crotch rockets and parked them out front. One day a retired cop who seems to have worked at pretty near all the FLGSs came in riding a scooter and at some point refers to it as a motorcycle. With a look of disdain that cannot be put into words, Rick corrects him "it's a scooter."
Scooter guy "motorcycle, scooter, same thing."
Rick "Nooo... its a Scoo-Ter."
I forget if Rick actually told him to "get the fuck out" or if he just communicated with attitude, but Scooter guy,got the fuck out.

[blues]

I used to frequent a gun store called American Sport Shooting, or ASS for short. The owner and his side kick both rode crotch rockets and parked them out front. One day a retired cop who seems to have worked at pretty near all the FLGSs came in riding a scooter and at some point refers to it as a motorcycle. With a look of disdain that cannot be put into words, Rick corrects him "it's a scooter."
Scooter guy "motorcycle, scooter, same thing."
Rick "Nooo... its a Scoo-Ter."
I forget if Rick actually told him to "get the fuck out" or if he just communicated with attitude, but Scooter guy,got the fuck out.

So much for brothers of the wheel...:p

[RevolverRob]

Showing someone your gun is like showing someone your ass. Most people aren't going to be impressed.

Keep your gun, like your ass, covered in public.

[HCountyGuy]

This wasn't as much an issue of carry preference (OC vs CC) as it was the guy being a nimrod. I can almost guarantee had his weapon been concealed, he still would've flashed it at the other individual in an attempt to intimidate him, and wound up with the same end result.

He was obviously of the mentality his gun made him some kind of badass sumbitch and found out the hard way having a gun does not make one invincible.

[NEPAKevin]

So much for brothers of the wheel...:p

19505

[john c]

I interpreted the "scooter" to be one of those motorized wheelchairs, not a Vespa or the kind my 9 year old rides.


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[NEPAKevin]

19521

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Scooter folks:

I was going to the IDPA match. A young man runs a stop sign in front of me. I almost make it around his rear but hit the left rear of the car. He makes a beautiful arc across both lanes of traffic. Thank you God that no one was coming in the other lane. He shed bumper and parts. My left front was crumpled. The sheriff arrives. Kid takes full responsible. His dad drives up. The sheriff is informed that I am carrying a Glock (as per TX rules). He politely asks if I can take out the gun and put in down on the floor of the trunk and he will unload it. I also tell him that I have a bag with another one. He retrieves and checks that one (unloaded). Another sherrif arrives. All very polite and friendly. Kid's Dad thanks me for trying to get around him and not coming through his side door and smashing him. I tried. His eyes widened a tad when the sheriff was dealing with the Glocks. He kind of said - OH! Lots of witnesses who stopped and said the kid was to blame.

Scooter point. As we are dealing with this, a teenager lad comes down the road on a skate board. He says to me - Wha happin? I said there was an accident. Scooter boy says that he will becoming back down this street in awhile on his board so could we clean it up. I said - You are welcome to stand in the road and do it yourself. He is miffed. I ask the law if they can give a ticket for being a douche-bag. Sadly, the answer is NO! Wonder why the law disarms folks after an accident. Makes sense to me.

Consequence of accident - got the car fix. Had some medical checkup bills paid for by the kid's USAA insurance (Dad was a vet). Then Medicare decided that my secondary insurance was USAA and not my insurance company and that screwed up all my medical bills for months. Trying to get Medicare to undo that was a horror show.

[RevolverRob]

I continue to think about this and other "I showed you my ass" kind of moments when people show others guns.

I can't quite put my head around it. The two times I've drawn a weapon for social purposes...I had every intent on using it to solve the problem. Why someone would think its a good idea to show someone your gat is beyond me. Hell, Johnny Cash sang a song about this very practice...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTAZ7xzZKAw

[gtae07]

I continue to think about this and other "I showed you my ass" kind of moments when people show others guns.

I can't quite put my head around it. The two times I've drawn a weapon for social purposes...I had every intent on using it to solve the problem. Why someone would think its a good idea to show someone your gat is beyond me.

There's a scene in the second book of The Expanse where one character is very unfamiliar with firearms, but is the other characters gave him one because the poor guy's looking for his kidnapped daughter. They come across a room full of people who likely know something about where his daughter is; he starts asking questions, then draws his gun and cocks it because that's what he'd seen all the time in movies--guys drew guns and cocked them just to emphasize how serious they were. The results are, um, not as he expected.

I suspect that same basic reason is part of why--too many movies and TV shows where the gun is used to show how tough and serious a character is. Too many people get their knowledge of guns (and other things) from TV and movies.

[camsdaddy]

I used to frequent a gun store called American Sport Shooting, or ASS for short. The owner and his side kick both rode crotch rockets and parked them out front. One day a retired cop who seems to have worked at pretty near all the FLGSs came in riding a scooter and at some point refers to it as a motorcycle. With a look of disdain that cannot be put into words, Rick corrects him "it's a scooter."
Scooter guy "motorcycle, scooter, same thing."
Rick "Nooo... its a Scoo-Ter."
I forget if Rick actually told him to "get out" or if he just communicated with attitude, but Scooter guy,got out.


So much for brothers of the wheel...:p
A few years ago there was a guy who thought it was cute to joke a guy on a scooter that was parked in font of the local watering hole. Of course it didn't take long for his buddies to join in. The jokester and friends all ride "real motorcycles". At the time I think there was a few custom choppers and various v twins in their garages. As they were picking at bill I asked them where there bikes were. I reminded them that while their bikes were at home Bill rides his year round rain or shine. Bill puts more miles on his scooter a year around town than they put combined on their weekend warrior runs. Needless to say they got the point and left him alone. I probably embarrassed Bill more than they did.
Side note I was not being bravdo. We live in a small town. I am friends with all of the guys and was working at the local motorcycle shop at the time. I promise while they were picking on Bill he is a guy that makes the world a better place and any of them would quickly take up for him. Bill is a local fixture. When his scooter would be dropped off at the shop you never knew who would find out and call and pick up the tab, maybe the ladies at the bank, a local cpa, a local patch guy.

[blues]

A few years ago there was a guy who thought it was cute to joke a guy on a scooter that was parked in font of the local watering hole. Of course it didn't take long for his buddies to join in. The jokester and friends all ride "real motorcycles". At the time I think there was a few custom choppers and various v twins in their garages. As they were picking at bill I asked them where there bikes were. I reminded them that while their bikes were at home Bill rides his year round rain or shine. Bill puts more miles on his scooter a year around town than they put combined on their weekend warrior runs. Needless to say they got the point and left him alone. I probably embarrassed Bill more than they did.
Side note I was not being bravdo. We live in a small town. I am friends with all of the guys and was working at the local motorcycle shop at the time. I promise while they were picking on Bill he is a guy that makes the world a better place and any of them would quickly take up for him. Bill is a local fixture. When his scooter would be dropped off at the shop you never knew who would find out and call and pick up the tab, maybe the ladies at the bank, a local cpa, a local patch guy.

Good story. Reminds me of a couple of watering hole sagas from the past.

Funny one: A local gent, now deceased, used to own a motel in the area. After having run-ins with the law for driving under the influence he eventually stopped driving his car to the pub and would commute on a scooter. When that option was removed for the same reason, he and his wife, (a worse lush than him), would arrive on their riding mower. No lie.

Not so funny one: The brother of a good friend of ours moved up from FL and due to his proclivity to drink beyond his ability, lost his license but decided a small scooter was the answer.

One evening when my wife and I closed down the pub with the owner and a few other friends, the door was locked behind us as we left and some of the merrymakers continued their soiree. My wife and I noticed that Chris' scooter was parked outside and decided that we'd go back and offer him lodging at our place that night.

Naturally, due to the loud music and carrying on, nobody heard us banging on the door or calling the phone so we ended up leaving. Naturally, Chris went off the road that night in a one vehicle accident going around a bend and ended up at Mission Hospital in Asheville. I learned this when I called his sister and brother in law in the morning to find out if he had made it home okay. I was tore up over it and felt responsible even though clearly it wasn't my doing. He was lucky to have survived. (The scooter didn't.)

[blues]

Oh, and one other that I've told before but is pretty funny in the context of the above posts...

Back in 1995 or so I traded in a cruiser toward a Honda ST1100 sport tourer as my wife was uncomfortable on multi-state cross country trips on the bike we had.

I had to ride up from Key Biscayne to Leesburg, FL to do the trade-in and it would take about four hours each way.

In my rush to get out the door and on the road, for perhaps the first and only time, I actually forgot to take my gun. By the time I realized my faux pas it was too late to turn back around.

Well, I got up to the shop, made the trade and headed back down south on a combination of local roads and the FL turnpike. In my mirrors I noticed a large pack of riders coming up quickly behind me on the highway. As they came alongside, I noticed that it was a chapter of the Outlaws (a 1%'er club).

My first thought was "great, I'm on a rice rocket, have no gun and I'm about to be forced off the road by a bunch of knuckle dragging bike thugs." This is going to be my payback for my undercover work on another 1% club a decade earlier up in NY.

Well, they passed me by without incident...but for the occasional sneer and maybe a middle finger.

I needed fuel as the dealer only gives about a quarter tank so I pulled into one of the service areas on the turnpike. Wouldn't you know that the Outlaws were all laying about...some refueling, some drinking a beer, others just standing around...all staring at my glossy black Jap bike as I gassed up.

The leader of the pack sauntered up to me and at that point I thought that it was going to be an ignominious end for both me and my new bike...but happily and surprisingly he just asked me about the bike, admired it, said it looked fast and told me to be safe and have good luck with it. (Fortunately, he didn't ask what I did for a living and I didn't volunteer.)

So, that day at least, "brothers of the wheel" was actually more than just a vague concept...and thankfully so.

True story in every detail.

[SeriousStudent]

Oh, and one other that I've told before but is pretty funny in the context of the above posts...

Back in 1995 or so I traded in a cruiser toward a Honda ST1100 sport tourer as my wife was uncomfortable on multi-state cross country trips on the bike we had.

I had to ride up from Key Biscayne to Leesburg, FL to do the trade-in and it would take about four hours each way.

In my rush to get out the door and on the road, for perhaps the first and only time, I actually forgot to take my gun. By the time I realized my faux pas it was too late to turn back around.

Well, I got up to the shop, made the trade and headed back down south on a combination of local roads and the FL turnpike. In my mirrors I noticed a large pack of riders coming up quickly behind me on the highway. As they came alongside, I noticed that it was a chapter of the Outlaws (a 1%'er club).

My first thought was "great, I'm on a rice rocket, have no gun and I'm about to be forced off the road by a bunch of knuckle dragging bike thugs." This is going to be my payback for my undercover work on another 1% club a decade earlier up in NY.

Well, they passed me by without incident...but for the occasional sneer and maybe a middle finger.

I needed fuel as the dealer only gives about a quarter tank so I pulled into one of the service areas on the turnpike. Wouldn't you know that the Outlaws were all laying about...some refueling, some drinking a beer, others just standing around...all staring at my glossy black Jap bike as I gassed up.

The leader of the pack sauntered up to me and at that point I thought that it was going to be an ignominious end for both me and my new bike...but happily and surprisingly he just asked me about the bike, admired it, said it looked fast and told me to be safe and have good luck with it. (Fortunately, he didn't ask what I did for a living and I didn't volunteer.)

So, that day at least, "brothers of the wheel" was actually more than just a vague concept...and thankfully so.

True story in every detail.

I had something similar happen outside San Bernardino in the early 80's. I was riding a Kawasaki GPZ1100, and had a polite and thankfully brief conversation with a large group of Hell's Angels.

Since it was California and I was riding from Camp Pendleton, I was unable to carry a gun. I was pulling Naugahyde out of my backside for half an hour after that.

[Totem Polar]

I am reasonably aware, from a lay perspective, of the ways that 1% organizations make money.

That said, when you are well and truly lost off pico in the tagged up parts of spanish koreatown where they burn things in barrels in the street, and the only open business within blocks is a kentucky fried chicken with bullet resistant laminate 10 inches thick separating the chicken from the populace, a full patch guy is exactly the sort you want to see standing in line. A polite "excuse me sir, you look like a person with considerable expertise on the roads around here; may I ask you about one?" will get you hooked up with the info you need, lickety split.

Hypothetically. :rolleyes:

[NEPAKevin]

Bill is a local fixture. When his scooter would be dropped off at the shop you never knew who would find out and call and pick up the tab, maybe the ladies at the bank, a local cpa, a local patch guy.

FWIW, I don't think the issue in the case I described was so much that the guy was riding a scooter but that he insisted on calling it a motorcycle.



After having run-ins with the law for driving under the influence he eventually stopped driving his car to the pub and would commute on a scooter. When that option was removed for the same reason, he and his wife, (a worse lush than him), would arrive on their riding mower. No lie.



There was a local alcoholic who had a similar progression with the local constabulary, including the riding mower part. I heard that they did arrest him for DUI as he was most certainly drunk and the lawn tractor has a motor. Don't know if the charges stuck but last time I saw him, he was weaving on and off the road riding a bicycle.

[Joe in PNG]

Blues- which Leesburg shop did you get it from?

Note that Sonny Barger himself gives the ST 1100 a thumbs up: "In terms of pure workmanship, personally I don't like Harleys. I ride them because I'm in the club, and that's the image, but if I could I would seriously consider riding a Honda ST1100 or a BMW. We really missed the boat not switching over to the Japanese models when they began building bigger bikes."

[blues]

Blues- which Leesburg shop did you get it from?

Note that Sonny Barger himself gives the ST 1100 a thumbs up: "In terms of pure workmanship, personally I don't like Harleys. I ride them because I'm in the club, and that's the image, but if I could I would seriously consider riding a Honda ST1100 or a BMW. We really missed the boat not switching over to the Japanese models when they began building bigger bikes."

Joe, I don't recall now if it was called Honda of Leesburg or something else. It's over twenty years now. But it was a Honda dealership.

Funny thing was my local shop in Miami called me a day or two before I was going up there and told me he found a bike for me. I told him it was too late as I had given my word to the other dealer. He asked if I had paid any money down and I said I hadn't and he couldn't understand my refusal to renege on the deal. I tried to explain that a man's word is his bond but it wasn't getting across.

Turned out to be a good thing that I bought from them. The dealer introduced me to the Honda Sport Touring Association and was instrumental in introducing me to a Hillsborough County deputy and his wife and another couple with whom we became very close.

Sometimes you don't get kicked in the ass for doing the right thing.

P.S. After riding some BMW "R" and "K" bikes, we preferred the ST but the Beemers would have definitely been my second option from the experiences I've had riding some of them out in CO, WY and MT.

19572

Looks a lot sleeker without all the luggage on a 6,000 mile cross country trip. When I was in the UK and France some years ago I saw several ST's used as police road bikes.