Beretta APX Box to Match Review.

[P.E. Kelley]

Quality construction, accurate and pleasant to shoot.


https://youtu.be/LayiLbZHEDg

[TheNewbie]

Thanks for another great video!

I'm curious, what do you normally carry concealed and what kind of carry rig do you use?

[GJM]

A thoughtful and honest review, which makes me want to watch more of his videos. Could have saved him some missing on steel, if he read my APX post on them shooting low. ;)

Interesting point he makes, a very good gun if it was to market number two, but as near last to market, it does nothing better than the competition.

[P.E. Kelley]

A thoughtful and honest review, which makes me want to watch more of his videos. Could have saved him some missing on steel, if he read my APX post on them shooting low. ;)

Interesting point he makes, a very good gun if it was to market number two, but as near last to market, it does nothing better than the competition.

He is Me and thank you very much. I did read your post AFTER I shot the gun. I should have hit this forum for the straight dope...but alas I am sometimes a dope.

[Balisong]

He is Me and thank you very much. I did read your post AFTER I shot the gun. I should have hit this forum for the straight dope...but alas I am sometimes a dope.

I'm really enjoying your videos sir, thank you for posting them. Although I'm a little pissed at you for putting that Keltec PMR30 or whatever it's called into my head....

[CanineCombatives]

It does everything better than the competition in my hands, others too.

[octagon]

Liked and subscribed. Neat concept. Maybe having the gun sighted in or at least aware if it shoots high,low etc would be nice and maybe have 1 stage that every gun is shot on for comparison. I like the format of speed/accuracy segment, pure accuracy segment and recoil slow motion with good commentary.

[e_stern]

A thoughtful and honest review, which makes me want to watch more of his videos. Could have saved him some missing on steel, if he read my APX post on them shooting low. ;)

Interesting point he makes, a very good gun if it was to market number two, but as near last to market, it does nothing better than the competition.

George,

While I understand your point about it's late entry to the market, I hope to prove that it does a lot better than the competition with our continuing commitment to the pistol and the line. Out of the box, we have tried to address the majority of what folks saw as detriments with current striker pistols without requiring excessive aftermarket modifications.

What exactly do you see as "Ho-Hum" about the pistol? I welcome your focused feedback if you have time.

[DAB]

SO holds the timer incorrectly. microphone towards the shooter, not the sky.

[JTQ]

George,

While I understand your point about it's late entry to the market, I hope to prove that it does a lot better than the competition with our continuing commitment to the pistol and the line. Out of the box, we have tried to address the majority of what folks saw as detriments with current striker pistols without requiring excessive aftermarket modifications.

What exactly do you see as "Ho-Hum" about the pistol? I welcome your focused feedback if you have time.
I'm not George, but my comments...

I kind of get the point of some of these comments from folks. If you've been shooting Glock's (or M&P's, or whatever striker) for a couple of decades, there probably isn't anything revolutionary about the APX that would make you jump to the Beretta from what you've been shooting.

On the other, for a guy that has been shooting a Beretta 92, or 1911, or SIG TDA, etc., whose been thinking about going the striker route, but has been put off by the odd grip angle of the Glock, and cheap sights, or the accuracy issues of the M&P, expensive HK mags, drop safety issues of the P320, etc., the Beretta APX may be a starting point to get into the genre.

P. E. Kelley commented about his large hands and using the large backstrap, but for those with not so large hands, the APX is really nice. From that perspective, it is a useful feature that he really doesn't appreciate. Nothing against his report, it's just a problem he doesn't have, that the APX addresses better than a lot of other options.

I'm not an early adopter of anything (though I did have a Raven Phantom fairly early, relatively speaking), but the APX is something that does interest me. I'm intrigued by how the slide shape will affect holster options, and holster availability is probably the thing holding me back the most, and I'd also like to see somebody do the 10-8 Performance extractor test on the gun. Glock's seem to have trouble with that test, and I'm beginning to think the short little extractor they use is part of the problem. I've noticed the APX uses a much shorter extractor than both the M9/92 and PX4, so I have my concerns.

[e_stern]

I'm not George, but my comments...

I kind of get the point of some of these comments from folks. If you've been shooting Glock's (or M&P's, or whatever striker) for a couple of decades, there probably isn't anything revolutionary about the APX that would make you jump to the Beretta from what you've been shooting.

On the other, for a guy that has been shooting a Beretta 92, or 1911, or SIG TDA, etc., whose been thinking about going the striker route, but has been put off by the odd grip angle of the Glock, and cheap sights, or the accuracy issues of the M&P, expensive HK mags, drop safety issues of the P320, etc., the Beretta APX may be a starting point to get into the genre.

P. E. Kelley commented about his large hands and using the large backstrap, but for those with not so large hands, the APX is really nice. From that perspective, it is a useful feature that he really doesn't appreciate. Nothing against his report, it's just a problem he doesn't have, that the APX addresses better than a lot of other options.

I'm not an early adopter of anything (though I did have a Raven Phantom fairly early, relatively speaking), but the APX is something that does interest me. I'm intrigued by how the slide shape will affect holster options, and holster availability is probably the thing holding me back the most, and I'd also like to see somebody do the 10-8 Performance extractor test on the gun. Glock's seem to have trouble with that test, and I'm beginning to think the short little extractor they use is part of the problem. I've noticed the APX uses a much shorter extractor than both the M9/92 and PX4, so I have my concerns.

Nice point by point, thank you.

I will point out that we a relatively unique system for a duty pistol with regards to the removable chassis (only the 320 matches this as we all know), which allows for mixing and matching of frame colors, and soon other configurations ;).

[GJM]

George,

While I understand your point about it's late entry to the market, I hope to prove that it does a lot better than the competition with our continuing commitment to the pistol and the line. Out of the box, we have tried to address the majority of what folks saw as detriments with current striker pistols without requiring excessive aftermarket modifications.

What exactly do you see as "Ho-Hum" about the pistol? I welcome your focused feedback if you have time.

First, the "point" you are referring to was made by Patrick in the video and I was just summarizing what he said. If you haven't watched it, I would encourage you to watch the whole video, so you get the full version rather than my very abbreviated summary. Patrick is a skilled shooter, who has been doing this shooting thing a long time, so his insights carry more weight than most. If there is a limitation to his video analysis, it is that he takes the pistol (not just this one but whatever he is testing) out of the box and shoots a difficult steel challenge type match with it. A lot of his missing came from not realizing how low the POI is with the stock sights, and I think some more is the nature of the APX trigger.

Second, since you asked, I will give you my thoughts on the APX. I do not have extensive trigger time with the APX, but I own one, and a few weeks back put it through the paces for a few days.

In terms of the good, the grip is fantastic -- one of the best on any polymer pistol. I like how three different types of checkering are used in different areas of the grip. I like the slide treatment, in terms of the ability to grasp the slide anywhere. It seemed accurate, the mag release was well placed, the pistol tracked well in recoil, it was reliable, and overall it seemed quality.

In terms of not so good, the pistol, specifically the slide, is very large compared to competitor 9mm pistols. So big, the only holster I could make work was one for a USP FS .45. Maybe not an issue for duty, but pretty darn big for concealed carry. The sights are regulated very much "drive the dot" instead of tip of the front sight. This, combined with the relatively thick sights makes distance precision shooting hard, as your target literally is hidden by the sights. The trigger works for me, but I shoot a wide range of trigger types. I suspect the trigger which will be perceived as heavy and spongy by the standards of many, will not be well received. The combination of sight regulation and trigger may be problematic for many, if they for example, go to shoot a B8 at 25 yards.

It appears that Beretta has worked to make accessories available for the APX through the Beretta on-line store, but the APX still suffers from new gun lack of support. My two most common holsters, a Blade Tech OWB and JM appendix, were not available for the APX yet when I last checked. I understand Trijicon just released sights, which is good, but I fear they will be the factory dimensions and hit low, as apparently the Ameriglo tritium sights do. Hopefully you get Dawson going with sights, as the optional factory fiber optic front is too wide. It was not obvious how an optic could be milled with the firing pin block located as it is. Not sure if you have optics ready models in the works?

To summarize my shooting, I was able to shoot the Gabe White standards at a turbo level with the APX. However, that is a 7 yard drill, and when I shot at 25-75 yards, the sight regulation made it very difficult to shoot well. This could be seen in Patrick's video on some of the smaller/further targets he struggled with. No idea how this pistol will do with LE, but between size and trigger, I suspect it will be a tough path for you to getting significant market share in the concealed carry market with the APX. As Patrick said, if this came out a long time ago, it would be very attractive, but today there are so many great choices in plastic 9mm pistols, it takes a lot to stand out.

[e_stern]

First, the "point" you are referring to was made by Patrick in the video and I was just summarizing what he said. If you haven't watched it, I would encourage you to watch the whole video, so you get the full version rather than my very abbreviated summary. Patrick is a skilled shooter, who has been doing this shooting thing a long time, so his insights carry more weight than most. If there is a limitation to his video analysis, it is that he takes the pistol (not just this one but whatever he is testing) out of the box and shoots a difficult steel challenge type match with it. A lot of his missing came from not realizing how low the POI is with the stock sights, and I think some more is the nature of the APX trigger.

Second, since you asked, I will give you my thoughts on the APX. I do not have extensive trigger time with the APX, but I own one, and a few weeks back put it through the paces for a few days.

In terms of the good, the grip is fantastic -- one of the best on any polymer pistol. I like how three different types of checkering are used in different areas of the grip. I like the slide treatment, in terms of the ability to grasp the slide anywhere. It seemed accurate, the mag release was well placed, the pistol tracked well in recoil, it was reliable, and overall it seemed quality.

In terms of not so good, the pistol, specifically the slide, is very large compared to competitor 9mm pistols. So big, the only holster I could make work was one for a USP FS .45. Maybe not an issue for duty, but pretty darn big for concealed carry. The sights are regulated very much "drive the dot" instead of tip of the front sight. This, combined with the relatively thick sights makes distance precision shooting hard, as your target literally is hidden by the sights. The trigger works for me, but I shoot a wide range of trigger types. I suspect the trigger which will be perceived as heavy and spongy by the standards of many, will not be well received. The combination of sight regulation and trigger may be problematic for many, if they for example, go to shoot a B8 at 25 yards.

It appears that Beretta has worked to make accessories available for the APX through the Beretta on-line store, but the APX still suffers from new gun lack of support. My two most common holsters, a Blade Tech OWB and JM appendix, were not available for the APX yet when I last checked. I understand Trijicon just released sights, which is good, but I fear they will be the factory dimensions and hit low, as apparently the Ameriglo tritium sights do. Hopefully you get Dawson going with sights, as the optional factory fiber optic front is too wide. It was not obvious how an optic could be milled with the firing pin block located as it is. Not sure if you have optics ready models in the works?

To summarize my shooting, I was able to shoot the Gabe White standards at a turbo level with the APX. However, that is a 7 yard drill, and when I shot at 25-75 yards, the sight regulation made it very difficult to shoot well. This could be seen in Patrick's video on some of the smaller/further targets he struggled with. No idea how this pistol will do with LE, but between size and trigger, I suspect it will be a tough path for you to getting significant market share in the concealed carry market with the APX. As Patrick said, if this came out a long time ago, it would be very attractive, but today there are so many great choices in plastic 9mm pistols, it takes a lot to stand out.



Thank you very much George, yes, I did not get to watch the entire video due to bandwidth limitations in my current location.

I will going forward make sure to fully watch before commenting in the future.

Glad to hear that you liked the grip.

Regarding slide, that is a design goal in order to make sure that you have the best grip possible in every situation. The downside of this is what you mention, making it a PITA to get a holster for and to conceal.

As far as the sights, this is pretty much the intent, but I am working to increase our sight options. I did get some fiber optic options up on our website and have discussed Fiber units with aftermarket companies. Dawson was and is on the table, but we have some things that we both need to work through to make it happen.

Trigger can be improved with our competition striker spring, which is just now in stock on the website. I am working to offer even better solutions in the future.

I specifically worked on the add on accessories for the gun in the run up to launch and am still working on them, if you have suggestions for specific ones beyond that which I have mentioned here I would welcome them.

Lastly, as for RDO mounts, Doug Holloway has already done an RMR slide for me that we displayed at launch at NRAAM in Atlanta

19452


I know he is able to do them for a nominal fee, despite the presence of the firing pin block. I will also be stocking the Allegheny dovetail mount for RMR, Fastfire, and DeltaPoint in the near future.

Beyond that, stuff is in the works ;)

[GJM]

Thanks for personally being involved in the development of this product, both generally and specifically here by participating on PF.

[CanineCombatives]

Best I could do with my phone but these are the standard ameriglo that are coming on the blue label APX's, as you can see there's a lot of daylight in that notch when the sights are aligned.
I haven't shot it past 50 yet but 10" gongs at that distance are really easy just standing unsupported. As far as the trigger it has really improved over new, I do think the break on the 320 is a little more crisp but you really need to be taking your time and stacking it to feel that difference, so anything other than slow bullseye fire the trigger is as good as any striker can be, the width really helps, there's less takeup than the others and after a thousand rounds or so the reset really kind of "comes in". 19454

[P.E. Kelley]

I'm really enjoying your videos sir, thank you for posting them. Although I'm a little pissed at you for putting that Keltec PMR30 or whatever it's called into my head....

You are...welcome? I really gig guns. They are fascinating tools. Some strike me as cooler than others and that one stuck me for sure.

[P.E. Kelley]

It does everything better than the competition in my hands, others too.

That is the beauty of different guns and different shooters! I am well pleased it works so well for you and those you know.

[P.E. Kelley]

Liked and subscribed. Neat concept. Maybe having the gun sighted in or at least aware if it shoots high,low etc would be nice and maybe have 1 stage that every gun is shot on for comparison. I like the format of speed/accuracy segment, pure accuracy segment and recoil slow motion with good commentary.

Funny, I tell myself EVERY time to shoot the first stage REAL slow and see where the gun hits...but as you can see, I just step on the gas!
I never said I was all that bright.

[Trooper224]

Personally, I don't find "no better than the competition" to be a terribly valid criticism. "No better than" also translates to "As good as" and options are always a good thing. Today, shooters are suffering from an embarrassment of riches when it comes to handgun designs.

[octagon]

e_stern I may be missing something but it appears you are looking for feedback on the APX and are connected to it somehow. There is another thread here at PF that has plenty of thoughts if you missed it due to it being back a page or so.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22141-Beretta-APX

I am nowhere near PEKelley and GJM level of shooter capability but my recent purchase of the APX from 20+ years of Glock and Kahr use and at the same time buying a CZ P10C to evaluate has really opened my eyes to how good the APX is. I agree with most comments already on sights and holsters. I have a hybrid Whitehat holster on order but the pickings are slim. Same with sights. The standard sights are OK for my tastes for light between front sight and rear notch but the front sight is wide and choices are limited. Obviously the APX isn't intended for concealed carry with this size but hopefully smaller versions are on the way soon.

That said I am quite impressed with the APX as a small handed shooter who struggles and has for years to find a gun that works well and feels good. The APX has this in spades even with the med backstrap I love it. Grip texture is great,recoil is minimal, controls are easy to reach and nice to use. I like just about everything about the gun but I see the opportunity to gain in the LE market will be difficult. Not because the APX isn't a great choice but because there seems to be no bright shining star attached to it....yet. The P320 has the military contract. Glock has the market in LE and civilian as well as aftermarket galore and FBI feather in their cap. I think if the APX had a star shooter using it in competition with good results, or a large agency contract it would do well right away. More aftermarket or factory support will help but right now I see the road to market share being long and slow. A mid size,compact and other models and calibers will surely help too to go along with modular system and available color options already available.

I really hope the APX has great success and from my experience so far it deserves it. I just don't see the momentum or interest from many and the real see the light moment comes after shooting it.

[Jared]

Personally, I don't find "no better than the competition" to be a terribly valid criticism. "No better than" also translates to "As good as" and options are always a good thing. Today, shooters are suffering from an embarrassment of riches when it comes to handgun designs.

That right there. We've got so many ways to get "there" particularly when it comes to a good defensive pistol that it really is a great time to be in this.

Regarding the APX, I like mine a lot for what it is, and hope to see it succeed.

[P.E. Kelley]

Thanks for personally being involved in the development of this product, both generally and specifically here by participating on PF.

I heartily 2nd that!

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I heartily 2nd that!

Excellent channel Patrick. I just test drove an APX so this is timely. I'm from Whidbey Island but went to university at Gonzaga. Glad to see another Washingtonian representing!


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