.22lr practice revolver search for my Father-in-law...

[hufnagel]

A recent trip out to see the inlaws (50th wedding anniversary for them!) had cause for him, myself, and a friend of mine to hit up a local range there. Post-liver transplant last year and complications related to said have resulted in him being less than proficient in handing and shooting his chosen self defense weapon (I believe it was a S&W Model 649 Bodyguard.) His hands suffered muscular atrophy from the aforementioned complications and while he's regaining muscle mass and tone, it's taking time, and he wants to get more confident with his handling. I'd like to help him find a .22lr chambered revolver that's similar enough that he can practice with without killing his hands. At first I considered a 617, but they're massively heavy (44oz for the 617 vs 22oz for the 649, all numbers from S&W's site.)

I present the above to the Everyone* and await your replies. :D

(* name the TV show that references for some eCoolCredit.)

[willie]

Check out Ruger's website and pull up the double action .22's with polymer frames. I had a 2 inch version that was accurate and fun to shoot.

[Duelist]

S&W 43c or 317. Why not go with a light jframe ?

[peterb]

Be aware that rimfire revolvers often have heavier trigger pulls than the equivalent centerfire models. That might be an issue if hand strength is a problem.

If you know someone you trust who handloads, making up some very light loads for his 649 might be a good option.

Does he have good snap caps to practice handling and dry-fire?

[Jim Watson]

Check out Ruger and S&W catalogues. I think S&W still make a J .22 and there are the Ruger SP and LCR.

Or like Peterb says, some light .38s will let him shoot his familiar revolver. Midrange wadcutters, "cowboy loads," or even lighter handloads.
How about primer powered wax, plastic, or rubber bullets? Or a laser target rig that will reward dryfire.

[pangloss]

Don't overlook the .32 caliber revolvers. I have a 432PD that gets a lot of .32 S&W long rounds. Same size as the .38 J-frames but with a 6 round capacity.

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

[SeriousStudent]

A couple of years ago I broke both wrists. First the right, then the left six months later.

I did a lot of dry practice, and also used these:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/211008/speer-plastic-cases-38-caliber-box-of-50

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/315781/speer-plastic-bullets-38-caliber-357-to-358-diameter-box-of-50

Hope that helps, and good luck to him.

[BehindBlueI's]

Check out Ruger's website and pull up the double action .22's with polymer frames.

I would advise against that for someone with hand issues. The trigger pull is quite heavy and while the recoil is minimal, the trigger pull will quickly cause fatigue and/or pain.

OP, I bet if you put a Hogue "Tamer" grip on his current revolver and shoot .38 wadcutters, it won't fatigue him as much and he'll also have a set up he can use for defense if it comes to that.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1151728157/hogue-tamer-grip-s-and-w-centennial-bodyguard-rubber

[hufnagel]

snap caps are definitely on the list of things to bring him next time i'm there.

I like that 317... for me :D

I've seen several people here and elsewhere recommend light loads or wadcutters. Neither he nor I are reloaders. Any recommendations for soft shooting loads? My experience with .38spl ammo is limited. I know Freedom Munitions make a 125gr load that shoots pretty light (makes my 686 feel like my 617) but still has some decent kick in my 442, so that might not be light enough. I have a case of it still so I guess I could bring some next time i'm visiting.


A couple of years ago I broke both wrists. First the right, then the left six months later.

I did a lot of dry practice, and also used these:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/211008/speer-plastic-cases-38-caliber-box-of-50

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/315781/speer-plastic-bullets-38-caliber-357-to-358-diameter-box-of-50

Hope that helps, and good luck to him.

... I think I want those for me! :D
how loud are they? think I could get away with making a short range in my 36' shed?

[peterb]

These are the Federal target wadcutters. Remington makes a similar load.
https://www.federalpremium.com/ammunition/handgun/family/gold-medal/gold-medal-handgun/gm38a

I've used them in a 442 with LG-305 lasergrips and didn't think the recoil was bad.

Muzzle energy is roughly 25% less than a standard 158 grain .38 Special load.

I just checked the Freedom site and saw that they have a similar load -- 148gr at 750 fps. Less expensive than the Federal or Remington. Might be worth a try.

The Pachmayr Compac grips are another option for comfort, but they're not small.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1003961365/pachmayr-compac-grips-s-and-w-j-frame-round-butt-rubber-black

[ACP230]

Charter Arms makes the Pathfinder in .22.
I have an older, adjustable sighted, one in stainless.
Shoots well and is about the same size as my Smith J-frames.

More recent versions don't have adjustable sights.

[willie]

My Ruger polymer frame .22 had an acceptably light d.a. trigger pull--lighter than the J frame belonging to the elder man with hand issues.

[scott]

317 is probably the way to go for a 22LR revolver. The plastic primer only rounds are also a great idea. If you want a lighter trigger than the rimfire revolvers, and don't mind the ammo cost, .32 hand ejectors are pretty much the last remaining affordable smith revolvers, and they're extremely cool.

[Wheeler]

A 43c with a Wollf reduced weight spring. I have one in mine and have yet to have a firearm related issue making decent ammo go bang.

As big a fan as I am of .32's, .32 ammo is freaking expensive if you're not reloading.

Only you and your dad know if his issues will cause problems with shooting a DAO revolver.

The LCR is significantly cheaper than the 43c however, I can't speak for the reliability of reduced weight springs in the LCR .22.

[SeriousStudent]

....


... I think I want those for me! :D
how loud are they? think I could get away with making a short range in my 36' shed?

I'd still recommend a set of foamie ear plugs. They are a large pistol primer inserted into a plastic case. Out of a 4" .38 revolver, they sound like a loud BB gun.

I am pretty deaf, and am very cautious about noise as a result of prior permanent hearing loss.

[jandbj]

I'd still recommend a set of foamie ear plugs. They are a large pistol primer inserted into a plastic case. Out of a 4" .38 revolver, they sound like a loud BB gun.

I am pretty deaf, and am very cautious about noise as a result of prior permanent hearing loss.

On a twangandbang YouTube video, he compares some of the wax and plastic primer powered loads.

[UNK]

snap caps are definitely on the list of things to bring him next time i'm there.

I like that 317... for me :D

I've seen several people here and elsewhere recommend light loads or wadcutters. Neither he nor I are reloaders. Any recommendations for soft shooting loads? My experience with .38spl ammo is limited. I know Freedom Munitions make a 125gr load that shoots pretty light (makes my 686 feel like my 617) but still has some decent kick in my 442, so that might not be light enough. I have a case of it still so I guess I could bring some next time i'm visiting.



... I think I want those for me! :D
how loud are they? think I could get away with making a short range in my 36' shed?

This place was recommended by LSP972. They are having a 25% off sale of 148 HBWC. I bought a case and they seem pretty light recoiling to me. I think Steve called them bunny fart loads. I don't remember the exact velocity but I'm pretty sure it's less than 800fps.

[hufnagel]

what place was that?

[UNK]

what place was that?

https://www.precisiondelta.com/products/38-spl-148gr-hbwc-remanufactured-ammunition/

[hufnagel]

thanks. not all that up on .38spl ammo pricing, but $232/1000 for range ammo sure feels like a pretty decent price. I'll have to order some in a couple days to try.

eta: that was before the 25% off. $174.30 for 100 148gr HBWC rounds? and free shipping? daddy is gonna spend money now!

[Stephanie B]

thanks. not all that up on .38spl ammo pricing, but $232/1000 for range ammo sure feels like a pretty decent price. I'll have to order some in a couple days to try.

eta: that was before the 25% off. $174.30 for 100 148gr HBWC rounds? and free shipping? daddy is gonna spend money now!

$241 for SWCs. Works out to $180.75 with free shipping. Thirty cents a box more....

Decisions, decisions.

[BehindBlueI's]

My Ruger polymer frame .22 had an acceptably light d.a. trigger pull--lighter than the J frame belonging to the elder man with hand issues.

Are you talking about the LCR, or is there another polymer frame revolver? The .22 LCR is generally around 14 lb+ trigger pull.

[hufnagel]

$241 for SWCs. Works out to $180.75 with free shipping. Thirty cents a box more....

Decisions, decisions.

I chickened out and only bought 1 case of HBWC. I'll probably regret that. :D

[tanner]

I chickened out and only bought 1 case of HBWC. I'll probably regret that. :D

If it makes you feel better, I bought that other case you were thinking about. lol

[UNK]

I chickened out and only bought 1 case of HBWC. I'll probably regret that. :D


If it makes you feel better, I bought that other case you were thinking about. lol

I bought one too. Should have bought two.

[Bobcat]

I am not seeing the 25% off.

[hufnagel]

enter code ammo25

[SeriousStudent]

Same here - is there a code we need for the 25 percent off at Precision Delta, or is the sale over?

I'd love to buy a case as well.

[SeriousStudent]

enter code ammo25

Thank you very much, I just ordered a case. :)

[SAWBONES]

Thank you to those who posted about the Precision Delta .38 Special HBWC ammo deal, with the 25% discount and free shipping.
That's quite a deal for top quality (according to the reviews) factory reloaded .38 Special full wadcutter ammunition.

I just ordered a case.

It's a far better deal than available anywhere else for those of us who want to be able to practice and carry using best-quality full WC ammunition in our J-frame .38 Special pistols, given that HP bullets are demonstrably unlikely to expand from a 1 7/8" barrel.

[jandbj]

Bought a case of precision delta wadcutter reloads months back when their website was screwed up and only charged me $65/1000 rounds. I think that was supposed to be the price for 250 rounds... but they honored it. I've since shot these in an NY1 3" model 64, a 442, a GP100 match and an old school Colt Trooper. They are nice midrange wadcutter loads and plenty accurate for my purposes.

[hufnagel]

Bought a case of precision delta wadcutter reloads months back when their website was screwed up and only charged me $65/1000 rounds. I think that was supposed to be the price for 250 rounds... but they honored it. I've since shot these in an NY1 3" model 64, a 442, a GP100 match and an old school Colt Trooper. They are nice midrange wadcutter loads and plenty accurate for my purposes.

do you remember what the recoil was like in the 442?

[jandbj]

do you remember what the recoil was like in the 442?
Fairly light. Not rimfire light but really low on the .38 scale in an airweight.

[Stephanie B]

Thank you very much, I just ordered a case. :)

So did I.

[APS-PF]

do you remember what the recoil was like in the 442?
They chronoed ~615fps from my 4" M15. 100fps less than the Federal Gold Medal Wadcutters. So they would be sub 600fps from a 642.

[UNK]

Thank you to those who posted about the Precision Delta .38 Special HBWC ammo deal, with the 25% discount and free shipping.
That's quite a deal for top quality (according to the reviews) factory reloaded .38 Special full wadcutter ammunition.

I just ordered a case.

It's a far better deal than available anywhere else for those of us who want to be able to practice and carry using best-quality full WC ammunition in our J-frame .38 Special pistols, given that HP bullets are demonstrably unlikely to expand from a 1 7/8" barrel.

To each his own but LSP972 recommended them as practice only rounds. His explanation is that these rounds are manufactured on a press like you would have at home whereas the Big Name WC's were manufactured on huge machines with an abundance of QC built in. Personally I currently carry Federal Match.
eta Sorry thats Federal Gold Medal not Match.

[BobM]

Has anyone used 38 wad cutters from Black Hills?

[SeriousStudent]

I hope I'm the only one this happens to. Somebody stole my ammo in mid-shipment. Not the first time this has happened to me, unfortunately.

I just got this email from UPS: Merchandise is missing. UPS will notify the sender with additional details. / All merchandise missing, empty carton was discarded. UPS will notify the sender with details of the damage.

It was scanned on arrival at the Memphis UPS terminal, but is now missing. So a UPS employee stole it - nice.

I double-checked my order at Precision Delta, and was not offered insurance on their website.

So I guess I'm screwed - sigh.

[Bobcat]

I hope I'm the only one this happens to. Somebody stole my ammo in mid-shipment. Not the first time this has happened to me, unfortunately.

I just got this email from UPS: Merchandise is missing. UPS will notify the sender with additional details. / All merchandise missing, empty carton was discarded. UPS will notify the sender with details of the damage.

It was scanned on arrival at the Memphis UPS terminal, but is now missing. So a UPS employee stole it - nice.

I double-checked my order at Precision Delta, and was not offered insurance on their website.

So I guess I'm screwed - sigh.

I thought UPS has $100 of insurance automatically on every package.

[SeriousStudent]

I thought UPS has $100 of insurance automatically on every package.

Then I'm hopefully only screwed out of 80 bucks. I bought a case of ammo.

[Stephanie B]

I hope I'm the only one this happens to. Somebody stole my ammo in mid-shipment. Not the first time this has happened to me, unfortunately.

I just got this email from UPS: Merchandise is missing. UPS will notify the sender with additional details. / All merchandise missing, empty carton was discarded. UPS will notify the sender with details of the damage.

It was scanned on arrival at the Memphis UPS terminal, but is now missing. So a UPS employee stole it - nice.

You'd think that their hub would have cameras and would notice somebody strolling out with a 30+lb box.

Anyway, mine is supposedly on the truck for delivery. But I may have to step out of the office.

[SeriousStudent]

I would like to publicly thank the very nice people at Delta Precision. On Friday a heavy box full of wonderful wadcutter goodness showed up here at Rancho Serious.

I was really, really busy this week getting work stuff done before the Labor Day weekend. I never had a chance to call and inquire about our next steps on the missing ammo.

So with absolutely no outside prompting, the very nice people at Delta Precision put another case on the truck for me. A very large tip of the Stetson to them!

I am going to order many cases of ammo from them in the future. They definitely went above and beyond.

Oh, and the ammo shoots great! I spend the day today practicing headshots with J frames from the pocket. Even the youngsters remarked how much fun it was to shoot the revolvers.

Highly recommended.

[Malamute]

I think you may have been on the right track with the 617 idea, but Id suggest one of the old school model 17s, or a model 18 (same basic thing but with the tapered 4" Combat Masterpiece barrel). They will weigh noticeably less than the 617 and have a much better trigger action than the small guns. I recall the old factory test standard for the K-22 Masterpiece (later the model 17) was 1 1/2" groups @ 50 yards, or something was assumed to be wrong and it was sent back to see what was the matter.

I dont know what they cost to buy, but 38 short Colt loads are pretty mild 38 loads. 125 gr bullet at 730-ish fps in regular barrels. I load some, but they are available commercially.

[Stephanie B]

Oh, and the ammo shoots great! I spend the day today practicing headshots with J frames from the pocket. Even the youngsters remarked how much fun it was to shoot the revolvers.

Highly recommended.

I'll concur with that. I shot off a box of it over the weekend. It's good stuf.

[Scal]

I hope I'm the only one this happens to. Somebody stole my ammo in mid-shipment. Not the first time this has happened to me, unfortunately.

I just got this email from UPS: Merchandise is missing. UPS will notify the sender with additional details. / All merchandise missing, empty carton was discarded. UPS will notify the sender with details of the damage.

It was scanned on arrival at the Memphis UPS terminal, but is now missing. So a UPS employee stole it - nice.

I double-checked my order at Precision Delta, and was not offered insurance on their website.

So I guess I'm screwed - sigh.

I had this happen to me with a Precision Delta order about a week before this. UPS recorded this as damage, but the Precision Delta people sent me a new case. I'm in Atlanta, so I don't think that my case made it through Memphis.