Restraints

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Does anyone keep any type of restraint system in the house/car in case of emergencies?
I am sure everyone has heard a story of someone holding a person, usually at gunpoint until the police arrive.
Physically restraining someone or holding them at gunpoint sounds exhausting and or a bad idea.
I would think you would be better of to have your gat put away before the police get there.
Anyway wondering if anyone had given this any thought and what your plan is.

[Malamute]

I'm curious to hear informed responses. Is there possible legal ramifications of using handcuffs or similar on somebody?

I recall reading ages ago that it was common in central America to use a captive soldier or insurgents bootlaces to tie their hands behind their backs. I think that sort of thing has been done with violent airplane passengers that needed to be subdued and restained.

[LtDave]

Not a good idea to try and restrain someone by yourself. I’ve put cuffs on lots of people before I retired and still wouldn’t want to do it without someone covering me. When you put hands on is usually when the fight starts. If you are not a cop, and they are no longer a threat, let them go. If you haven’t trained or practiced cuffing/restraining someone, on the job training is not recommended.

There are ALWAYS potential legal ramifications. In California, you might be criminally charged with false imprisonment if your “citizen’s arrest” wasn’t lawful. How about civil liability for “injuries” you inflict while doing the restraining. Cops get accused of and sued for causing damage all the time with cuffs and we apply them thousands of times.

[Nephrology]

Not a good idea to try and restrain someone by yourself. I’ve put cuffs on lots of people before I retired and still wouldn’t want to do it without someone covering me. When you put hands on is usually when the fight starts. If you are not a cop, and they are no longer a threat, let them go. If you haven’t trained or practiced cuffing/restraining someone, on the job training is not recommended.

Not an LEO, definitely not in the business of cuffing people or going hands on when I have any say in matter. Happy to keep them at gunpoint until I see lights and sirens.

[HCM]

Putting on restraints is risky business, especially by yourself. It is the most common time for LE to be assaulted.

In empty hand situations getting someone into restraints when they are resisting is often harder than kicking their butt.

Holding someone at gun point is best done with them in a position of disadvantage - ideally one in which they cannot see you as part of the disadvantage. This both makes it harder for them to plan an escape or assault and gives you the option of holstering or holding your gun down at your side without them knowing.

Legal issues will vary from state to state. Some states provide for citizens arrest and some don't.

Overall, for a citizen, once you have deterred or defeated a threat the best course of action is to let them go and let LE round them up.

[HCM]

I'm not a LEO and I have absolutely no experience with cuffing someone, but I would never place restraints on anyone -- even if I did have another person to cover me. It's hard for me to imagine any scenario that doesn't turn into a fight.

What I've done in FOF/ECQC type scenarios when I had a guy at gun point (low ready actually) and didn't want to get into a fight was to prone them out, arms straight out to the side with palms up, and with their legs crossed and toes pointed. I'd stand several feet away on the foot side of them where they can't see me. I figure that keeps their hands away from their waist (and their weapons), keeps them where they can't see me, and is an awkward enough position that they can't quickly/easily make a move toward me. But, it's just FOF and sort of a game. I doubt I'd do it in real life and I'm doubtful I'd get full compliance anyway. Shitbags act/think differently than your average normal FOF/ECQC player.

Sometimes you get compliance, sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get feigned compliance which turns into an escape or assault attempt.

IME there are two type of cuffing - compliant and non compliant / get them on any way you can. the latter is best done with two or more people working in some sort of unision.

[BehindBlueI's]

I carry cuffs in an ankle holster while off duty and in my jurisdiction. When traveling outside of my jurisdiction, I do not carry them.

I would just point out that in most scenarios were the person is leaving, the problem is now over. I'd need a pretty compelling reason to close the distance and attempt to detain, particularly if I wasn't trained on how to do so.

[Hambo]

If you are not a cop, and they are no longer a threat, let them go. If you haven’t trained or practiced cuffing/restraining someone, on the job training is not recommended.


Yeah, it's a really bad idea to try it alone. Field expedient restraints (re: bootlaces, etc) are an even worse idea.

[Trooper224]

You've just had a bad idea. Not just from a standpoint of personal safety but also from one of liability. Restraining someone without being properly trained to do so could cost you a lot, even if the overall situation is righteous. One minor injury may cost you your home in legal fees.

[UNK]

Thanks .for all the inputs guys. Great Knowledge base here as always

[PT Doc]

Larry Lindenman posted a couple of really good articles a while back about the dos and dont's of holding someone. Google his blog: Point Driven Training and search for In Extremis Communication 1/2

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[Wheeler]

I have absolutely no intention of attempting to hold a home invader until the cops arrive. If they choose to leave upon being confronted, I'm good with that.

[RevolverRob]

Save your bedroom handcuffs for other uses.

Years ago, there was a Chuck Taylor written volume on "Combative Handguns", that included a brief discussion on "restraint" techniques. If you encountered an intruder who complied with commands and you felt you could hold them until law enforcement arrived.

1) Hands on top of the head, fingers interlaced.
2) On knees
3) Cross Ankles
4) Sit on the ankles
5) Hold at gun point until backup arrives.

[LOKNLOD]

Save your bedroom handcuffs for other uses.

Years ago, there was a Chuck Taylor written volume on "Combative Handguns", that included a brief discussion on "restraint" techniques. If you encountered an intruder who complied with commands and you felt you could hold them until law enforcement arrived.

1) Hands on top of the head, fingers interlaced.
2) On knees
3) Cross Ankles
4) Sit on the ankles
5) Hold at gun point until backup arrives.

I like the "pull your shirt up over your head like a hockey fight" addition as well.

[Nephrology]

I carry cuffs in an ankle holster while off duty and in my jurisdiction. When traveling outside of my jurisdiction, I do not carry them.

I would just point out that in most scenarios were the person is leaving, the problem is now over. I'd need a pretty compelling reason to close the distance and attempt to detain, particularly if I wasn't trained on how to do so.

Also a good point. I can't imagine one barring getting the drop on someone in my home who voluntarily surrenders to a drawn firearm. I think the odds of those 2 things coinciding is probably not super duper high.

[AMC]

Have to agree with all the opinions attempting to restrain a bad guy by yourself (or at all, frankly) as a private citizen is bad juju. I wouldn't do it off duty, and I do carry cuffs (my firearm is a Tool of Arrest).

This does bring to mind a good story about handcuffing. Years ago, a buddy of mine who was with State Department Diplomatic Security was in New York for some big UN gathering or other. Tons of Feds from many agencies were detailed to this because of security concerns, as well as some state level LE's. Buddy was having lunch with a couple of DS guys, some ATF guys, and a couple of Texas Rangers who were assigned to a Federal Task Force. They were discussing arrest and control methods, when my buddy asked one of the crusty old Rangers what type of handcuffing methods they used. The Ranger took out a pair of handcuffs and tossed them across the table towards my friend and said "Put those on, boy, before I have to shoot your ass."

[Rex G]

I am an LEO, and work patrol, so handcuffing is part of my job. I am not going to try to apply handcuffs or other restraints on a burglar in my home. If he wants to lay there, meek and mild, OK; I will observe him from a safe distance.

The norm, in police work, is to have a second officer present when handcuffing a violent or other high-risk suspect, and a burglar is a high-risk suspect. (Yes, I know, some LEOs work in environments where a second officer is a rare luxury.) The officer who applies the handcuffs/restraints is the contact officer, while the officer who remains at a safe distance, ready to apply an appropriate response to resistance, is the cover officer.

In prisons, the convicts train to suddenly attack officers who move in to handcuff them. Unless one has trained to counter these sudden attacks, I strongly recommend against trying to make physical contact with a burglar. If one has trained to counter these sudden attacks, I strongly recommend against trying to make physical contact with a burglar.

Even if one has completed an ECQC, or two or three, I recommend against making physical contact with a burglar.

For the purposes of this reply, "burglar" applies to anyone inside the home without the consent of the owner/resident.

[DMF13]

Not a good idea to try and restrain someone by yourself. I’ve put cuffs on lots of people before I retired and still wouldn’t want to do it without someone covering me. When you put hands on is usually when the fight starts. If you are not a cop, and they are no longer a threat, let them go. If you haven’t trained or practiced cuffing/restraining someone, on the job training is not recommended.+1. Whenever possible cuff with cover. Don't cuff unless you've had some decent training/practice in doing it.

[Cypher]

+1. Whenever possible cuff with cover. Don't cuff unless you've had some decent training/practice in doing it.

I would go so far as to say recent training/practice and actual experience.

[willie]

And don't overlook that improper restraints with one or more persons on top of the person being restrained can cause death by asphyxiation.

[BehindBlueI's]

And don't overlook that improper restraints with one or more persons on top of the person being restrained can cause death by asphyxiation.

Improper restraint and positioning alone can lead to death, it doesn't require someone to be on top.

[willie]

Good point. I'm way past remembering the details but do know that unfortunate deaths have resulted from improper technique. Unfortunately, when a morbidly obese person succumbs during or immediately afterwards being restrained, blame gaming begins even when correct procedures were used.