Smith 43C and 351C

[GJM]

I recently purchased a Smith model 43C in .22LR and .351C in .22 magnum. I was pleased to see that neither revolver had a lock.

The 43C's trigger is decent, where the 351C's is HEAVY! Apex says their J frame kit is not designed for the .22LR/.22 magnum J frames, and trigger jobs on .22 J frames can be hit and miss in terms of reliability. Any idea why the .22 magnum trigger is so heavy -- does the .22 magnum cartridge require more to reliably ignite it?

I read where #4 ribbed plastic anchors are the hot ticket for dry firing the .22's, got some for a couple of bucks, and am happily dry firing. The anchors are even a nice yellow color that makes them stand out.

These .22 J frames look like an ideal pocket kit pistol for an outdoorsy person.

[Tamara]

I recently purchased a Smith model 43C in .22LR and .351C in .22 magnum. I was pleased to see that neither revolver had a lock.

The 43C's trigger is decent, where the 351C's is HEAVY! Apex says their J frame kit is not designed for the .22LR/.22 magnum J frames, and trigger jobs on .22 J frames can be hit and miss in terms of reliability. Any idea why the .22 magnum trigger is so heavy -- does the .22 magnum cartridge require more to reliably ignite it?

I'd think the .22 WMR primers would be harder, but Gunsmith Bob (sitting here watching Nick Saban's 3-hr. public strangulation of LSU) says he's never noticed that they're any harder to touch off, and given that both calibers have a 24k psi max SAAMI pressure, I guess he's right.

I am just sick jealous over your 43C. :o Maybe I'll get lucky at this weekend's Indy 1500 gun show...

[SteveB]

The 43C's trigger is decent, where the 351C's is HEAVY! Apex says their J frame kit is not designed for the .22LR/.22 magnum J frames, and trigger jobs on .22 J frames can be hit and miss in terms of reliability. Any idea why the .22 magnum trigger is so heavy -- does the .22 magnum cartridge require more to reliably ignite it?



My 317 has a good trigger, but my 351C is very heavy. The Wolff website has some interesting info on rimfire revolver springs:

The standard mainspring for centerfire J-Smiths is 8.5 lb, reduced is 8, extra is 9.
The standard mainspring for rimfire J-Smiths is 12 lb.

Wolff has for sale the following item, which has both reduced power mainspring and rebound springs. I'm going to get one and fool around with these springs to see if I can improve the trigger while maintaining reliability:

Shooters Pak - Reduced Power - Stock Number 17126 - This pak for rimfire models contains 1 each 9 pound reduced power hammer spring and 1 each 13, 14 and 15 pound reduced power rebound springs allowing adjustment for lighter and smoother trigger and hammer action. Note: Rimfire models 317, 650, 651 have a 12 Lb. factory hammer spring.

-Steve

[Jac]

I'd think the .22 WMR primers would be harder, but Gunsmith Bob (sitting here watching Nick Saban's 3-hr. public strangulation of LSU) says he's never noticed that they're any harder to touch off, and given that both calibers have a 24k psi max SAAMI pressure, I guess he's right.

I am just sick jealous over your 43C. :o Maybe I'll get lucky at this weekend's Indy 1500 gun show...

LR & WMR have the same max pressure? Huh...

[Al T.]

My recently purchased S&W M63-5 has about a ten, maybe 12 pound DA trigger. It concerned me enough to shoot about 150 rounds through it the next day. No issues at all. :)

[Tamara]

LR & WMR have the same max pressure? Huh...
Who knew, right? :confused:

I guess WMR just uses more (and slower-burning) powder.

[Chuck Haggard]

When my 437 went TU and couldn't be fixed by S&W they offered me any J frame I wanted to replace it. I seriously should have gotten the 43C

[WDW]

.22 revolvers have heavy mainsprings to ensure reliable primer ignition

[GJM]

The .22 mag model 351 trigger is half again as heavy as the model 43C .22LR, and near unusable. Right now, the .22 mag model 351 is a very expensive hand strengthening device, and Smith says it is what it is. Delighted with the 43C and unhappy with the 351.

[Al T.]

Try trading the main springs and see if the 351 still lights the rounds off. :)

I'm betting it will. :eek:

[Al T.]

Finger fiddled a 35i at the LGS. Smooth, but a tad heavy. I'm thinking (based on my handling) that trading those springs will work.

[Al T.]

Any update? :)

[Chuck Haggard]

Bumping this up instead of starting a new thead.


Does anyone have any time shooting the 351 or any of the other S&W .22mag snubs? I have heard that the 351 has issues with ejection.


I have a 317 that I use for training, but I am really interested in one of the .22mags to go with my .22lr

[GJM]

Bumping this up instead of starting a new thead.


Does anyone have any time shooting the 351 or any of the other S&W .22mag snubs? I have heard that the 351 has issues with ejection.


I have a 317 that I use for training, but I am really interested in one of the .22mags to go with my .22lr

Haven't noticed an ejection problem, but have noticed an extremely heavy trigger on the 351. I have a 43C and 351C that are sitting unused, in favor of my training 317, ping me if you want more info.

[axrd]

Had the 9# hammer spring and 13# rebound spring installed in my 351c. I get about 2 misfires every cylinder (7rounds). Am on the hunt for a 10# spring that will fit. Will also try the light Apex firing pin spring to help with detonation. Otherwise its back to the original hammer spring. Speer Gold Dots perform best so far.

[GJM]

The word I have gotten from S&W, Apex and Bill Rogers is to leave the stock springs alone in the .22/.22 mag revolvers if you value reliable ignition.

[JHC]

For what it's worth - I wanted a 317 but didn't want to pony up $600+ for it so I just got a Ruger LCR22 for the same purpose for about $350. So far so good, 50 rounds so far. Should serve the trigger training purpose. It won't make as nifty a "kit gun" to pot the odd squirrel but if I want that very badly I can go Crimson Trace. It's ugly as sin though; unlike the elegant J frames.

[Tamara]

It's ugly as sin though; unlike the elegant J frames.

Actually, most sins are considerably more attractive than an LCR. ;)

[JHC]

Actually, most sins are considerably more attractive than an LCR. ;)

ROFLMAO!!! No argument here.

[Spr1]

On the .22's you can change the rebound slide spring down several pounds from stock, without compromising ignition by retaining the stock mainspring. The factory rebound spring is IIRC around 17 lbs. I typically go down to the 14 lb Wolff spring without experiencing sluggish trigger return.

[Totem Polar]

Actually, most sins are considerably more attractive than an LCR. ;)

Bumping this thread, only because I saw this one-liner while researching P-F consensus on the 43c. To good a post to let history devour... :D

[jandbj]

I’ve shot the LCR22, 351c, & 43c... and keep coming back to the 43c. LCR is on its way to a new home with a forum member.


43c is a sneaky gun too. Somehow finds its way into the range bag for every trip. :cool:

[Wheeler]

I carry a 43c every day. I can make 15 yard headshots with CCI Stingers. I’ve left it stock as it really doesn’t need any futzing with to make it more shootable.

[OlongJohnson]

My observation is that the variation between any two samples of similar units out of the box is not likely to be indicative of the variation in design, or what may be accomplished by a simple cleanup and defrictioning of the actions. Until the side plate is off and the guts on a competent person’s bench, you’re training without a timer.

Of course S&W will tell you it is what it is. But I’ve yet to see a recent production S&W that was ready to go into service as it left the factory.

[Polecat]

I recently stumbled on a second hand 43c. These little guns are sensitive to ammo. Between my 317 and 43c, one will fire two or three rounds of minimags and bind, the other has no problem. Each will shoot the same load to different points of aim. Once you find ammo it likes stick with it. I shoot my 43 way more than I do my 351c.

I hope claude will chime in with his thoughts and experiences with these rimfires.

Dave

[Wheeler]

I recently stumbled on a second hand 43c. These little guns are sensitive to ammo. Between my 317 and 43c, one will fire two or three rounds of minimags and bind, the other has no problem. Each will shoot the same load to different points of aim. Once you find ammo it likes stick with it. I shoot my 43 way more than I do my 351c.

I hope claude will chime in with his thoughts and experiences with these rimfires.

Dave

That’s interesting. My 43c is not ammo sensitive at all in terms of reliability.

[Scal]

That’s interesting. My 43c is not ammo sensitive at all in terms of reliability.

So, my 43c runs Stingers with 100% reliability with a 15lb rebound spring and 9lb mainspring. The only thing that it seems to have trouble with is Velocitors, and that was with factory stock springs before I installed lightened springs. I have talked with knowledgeable folks who speculate that the higher pressure from the Velocitors and also from .22mag ammo necessitate thicker brass that makes these rounds more likely to misfire without heavy mainsprings.

[OlongJohnson]

Holy necropost, Sideshooter. I hope GJM has figured it out by now.

[Wheeler]

So, my 43c runs Stingers with 100% reliability with a 15lb rebound spring and 9lb mainspring. The only thing that it seems to have trouble with is Velocitors, and that was with factory stock springs before I installed lightened springs. I have talked with knowledgeable folks who speculate that the higher pressure from the Velocitors and also from .22mag ammo necessitate thicker brass that makes these rounds more likely to misfire without heavy mainsprings.

I've not tried Velocitors yet.

I'd question the info that the knowledgeable folks you talked to are operating off of. .22 Mag and .22 LR are both rated at the same max pressure according to SAAMI.

[jandbj]

Just sent my 43c back to the mothership. About 5-7k through it. Was spitting lead at the forcing cone regardless of ammo choice, and experiencing hard ejection with Winchester bulkpack. Will see what they say about resolving the issues.

[Totem Polar]

Just sent my 43c back to the mothership. About 5-7k through it. Was spitting lead at the forcing cone regardless of ammo choice, and experiencing hard ejection with Winchester bulkpack. Will see what they say about resolving the issues.

I got my email notification that mine was in the repair process, this morning. We will also see what they have to say about my own 43c’s issues.

[jandbj]

I got my email notification that mine was in the repair process, this morning. We will also see what they have to say about my own 43c’s issues.

Same issues or different ones?

[Totem Polar]

Same issues or different ones?




As to the 43C, on the gun's maiden voyage to the range, I discovered that the trigger cannot be successfully pulled all the way through on 2 of the 8 chambers. As well, one of the chambers exhibits light strikes, with the result that between 5 or 6 of the 8 chambers reliably fire as expected. This was verified and repeated across 4 cylinders of factory Winchester .22LR ammunition before I called it a day, packed up, and headed out to the parking lot to phone S&W customer service. Of further note: case extraction is extremely stiff, and I say this as a current owner of 3 other--well, now 4 other--S&W J-frames, to say nothing of those that came before. It's already halfway back to S&W via the FedEx label they emailed me.

[Polecat]

I found my 43c would do a similar thing and bind badly with CCI’s not allowing the cylinder to even rotate, like after 2 rounds, it was hot etc. I found Federal copper plated worked great as did some others, took alot of experimenting. They are enjoyable when ya get em dialed in. The accuracy between makes was another pain in the ass, as some shot 3 o’clock, some 1 etc. quite abit of variance.

Dave

[jandbj]

Mine arrived in Springfield today. Watching my email to see their diagnosis.

[jandbj]

Mine arrived in Springfield today. Watching my email to see their diagnosis.
Got the “in the repair queue” email.

[Totem Polar]

Aaaaaand... i just got the return fedex tracking #

due back on Monday. Pretty decent turn-around, IMHO.

[Totem Polar]

Got it back, says they replaced the yoke and the firing pin. Pretty fast repair, in all. Maybe I can get out tomorrow after work and see how they did.

As an aside, my wife had to sign for it while I was at work; she thought there might be a mistake, or that someone had poached it during shipping, because the fedex box was so light. :D

[Totem Polar]

Ugh. Still having light strikes. The same 2 chambers are the culprit. Winchester super x 40 gr--same ammo works fine in my single-six, Erma, various rifles, etc.

Back from S&W and right out of the box it's clearly the least reliable handgun I own (aside from a couple that are totally defunct). I guess I'll be calling S&W again.


Thanks for talking me out of a 43c.

No problem.

[willie]

Since it's the same two chambers, the problem appears to be caused by these two chambers having been reamed too deeply. Or the cylinder may not be square with one side lower than the other. Unless the cylinder is replaced, the issue will not be resolved. I hope that they don't tell you to try another ammo brand. The techs did not know what they were doing.

[jandbj]

Got the “in the repair queue” email.
Still waiting. Called last week and was told it was at the performance center... warranty department sent it to them. :confused:

[Totem Polar]

Still waiting. Called last week and was told it was at the performance center... warranty department sent it to them. :confused:

The first time I sent mine in, they were pretty darn fast about getting me in the cue, and the turn around. This time, not so much. *crickets...*

[CCT125US]

Rented a 351c today and was pretty underwhelmed. I could keep a cylinder inside 2" using a cover hold at 10 yds Da/Sa but it took some work. After 20 rounds or so, the powder build up underneath the extractor had to be brushed out or it would bind and not close. Ammo was CCI TNT JHP. 50 rounds was all I cared to fire, as it was pretty rough. About $20 for rental and ammo told me it's not for me.

[Wheeler]

I recently scored a 351c as a companion to my 43c. The first few rounds didn't impress me but as I shot it more it has grown on me quite a bit. I'm still not prepared to replace the 43c with the 351c but, I can beat on steel poppers in low light with it at 18 yards so it has potential. :)

[Totem Polar]

Mine shipped back from the mothership (for the second time) today. I am really hoping that S&W got the little wheelie dialed in for me.

[jandbj]

Still waiting. Called last week and was told it was at the performance center... warranty department sent it to them. :confused:

Got a Sales Quotation in the mail from S&W... $103. “sent from warranty dept due to custom springs”
$45 for estimate and range test, $45 for 1/2 hour of PC labor, $13 for return shipping.

Guess I should’ve changed those back before shipping it. :mad:

I do wonder what springs it will return with.

[Totem Polar]

Got a Sales Quotation in the mail from S&W... $103. “sent from warranty dept due to custom springs”
$45 for estimate and range test, $45 for 1/2 hour of PC labor, $13 for return shipping.

Guess I should’ve changed those back before shipping it. :mad:

I do wonder what springs it will return with.

That’s harsh.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Rented a 351c today and was pretty underwhelmed. I could keep a cylinder inside 2" using a cover hold at 10 yds Da/Sa but it took some work. After 20 rounds or so, the powder build up underneath the extractor had to be brushed out or it would bind and not close. Ammo was CCI TNT JHP. 50 rounds was all I cared to fire, as it was pretty rough. About $20 for rental and ammo told me it's not for me.

That was my experience with a SW 651 way back when. It got so gunked up that it took significantly soaking and scrubbing to make it work again.

[Chuck Haggard]

Thankfully my 43c, 317 and .22lr LCR have all been GTG the whole time I've had them.

I still wish I had kept my 351

The .22mag LCR needs to be an 8 shooter.

[Gun Mutt]

The .22mag LCR needs to be an 8 shooter.
Right?? I really like my wife's 351c and I've embraced the 442 for my edc, but I've pretty much decided to add a .22LR LCR to our world. But another .22 mag, esp with 8 shots would be hard to pass up.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I made a 432 my J frame, not a 38 , pocket carry gun. They don't make them anymore. I got it cheap when they were dumped after SW ceased production. Easy to shoot in 32 HR mag, 6 shots.

[Gun Mutt]

I would love a 432!

[Wheeler]

Thankfully my 43c, 317 and .22lr LCR have all been GTG the whole time I've had them.

I still wish I had kept my 351

The .22mag LCR needs to be an 8 shooter.

Interestingly enough my 317, 43c, and 351c have also been quite reliable. What are the odds of two of us getting lucky like that?

[Jared]

Rented a 351c today and was pretty underwhelmed. I could keep a cylinder inside 2" using a cover hold at 10 yds Da/Sa but it took some work. After 20 rounds or so, the powder build up underneath the extractor had to be brushed out or it would bind and not close. Ammo was CCI TNT JHP. 50 rounds was all I cared to fire, as it was pretty rough. About $20 for rental and ammo told me it's not for me.

Some years ago I briefly had a 6" Model 48 (K frame 22 Mag). It would go about 2 cylinders full before the unburned powder caused issues under the extractor star. I also found it to be quite blasty compared to a 22 LR. I sent it on down the road in less than 6 months. I love the 22 WMR out of a rifle, but that revolver soured me on using one in a handgun.

[Wheeler]

Some years ago I briefly had a 6" Model 48 (K frame 22 Mag). It would go about 2 cylinders full before the unburned powder caused issues under the extractor star. I also found it to be quite blasty compared to a 22 LR. I sent it on down the road in less than 6 months. I love the 22 WMR out of a rifle, but that revolver soured me on using one in a handgun.

My 17-5 also has to stay clean to run more than a few cylinders through it. I've never had an issue with unburnt powder getting under the extractor star, that's usually an issue with the methods used to unload rather than powder sneaking around the cylinder and getting under the star. :)

I suspect that most any magnum cartridge is going to have more blast relative to it's understudy, 44 Mag to 44 Special, 357 Mag to 38 Special, 22 Mag to 22 WRF. As an interesting side note, there is no developmental relation between the .22 LR and the .22 Mag. The only similarity is they are both rimfire cartridges.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

When I had the 651 and fired it at an indoor range at 7 yards, it would leave a big cloud of unburnt or burnt black something on the target. Not only would it stop the attacker but it would make said person dirty.

As far as blast effects, I have a NAA 22 Magnum with a 1 5/8 barrel. I shot it at a range between the partitions. I thought I blew up. There was a giant flash and I felt blast waves push back my hair (I had some then), and even felt the shot wave go under my glasses. My eyes slammed shut in reflex and I slowly opened them and looked for damage. Wow - that would be a room clearing event. Outside, not so bad, I think the partitions set up an constructive interference wave effect.

The NAA is still in the inventory as a deep BUG.

[Totem Polar]

Way OT, but, if you’ve shot full-power .327 Federal out of a short barrel revolver, you’ve seen the devil in muzzle blast.

The 100 grainers going almost 1500 fps are, like, AR loud indoors. Makes enough noise to scare Beethoven, despite the whole deaf/dead thing...

[Jared]

My 17-5 also has to stay clean to run more than a few cylinders through it. I've never had an issue with unburnt powder getting under the extractor star, that's usually an issue with the methods used to unload rather than powder sneaking around the cylinder and getting under the star. :)

I suspect that most any magnum cartridge is going to have more blast relative to it's understudy, 44 Mag to 44 Special, 357 Mag to 38 Special, 22 Mag to 22 WRF. As an interesting side note, there is no developmental relation between the .22 LR and the .22 Mag. The only similarity is they are both rimfire cartridges.

I'm familiar with the proper way to eject empties in a revolver to help keep getting crud under the star. Didn't help with that model 48. I also have a Model 17. Loads of difference in the number of rounds that could be fired without having to do something. My 17 would go a lot lot longer than the 48 ever thought about.

I also know there is no development similarities between 22LR and 22 Mag. All that said, and I'll repeat, there was enough extra noise and blast with the 48, combined with the fact it needed brushed out after about 12 shots, that I decided the 22 WMR is an excellent rifle round. In a revolver, I'll just stick to the 22LR.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I agree about the 327. I was surprised when I shot the full power from my SS SW 632 3 inch comp'ed gun. It really gave my hand a whack. Much more that a 230 gr 45 ACP from a Scandium Commander.

[Wheeler]

I'm familiar with the proper way to eject empties in a revolver to help keep getting crud under the star. Didn't help with that model 48. I also have a Model 17. Loads of difference in the number of rounds that could be fired without having to do something. My 17 would go a lot lot longer than the 48 ever thought about.

I also know there is no development similarities between 22LR and 22 Mag. All that said, and I'll repeat, there was enough extra noise and blast with the 48, combined with the fact it needed brushed out after about 12 shots, that I decided the 22 WMR is an excellent rifle round. In a revolver, I'll just stick to the 22LR.

I wasn't trying to probe you wrong or change your mind, merely offering another point of view based on several years of competing with revolvers, including rimfires. I am glad to see another student of the vertical reload.

Cheers and have a happy New Year.

[Jared]

I wasn't trying to probe you wrong or change your mind, merely offering another point of view based on several years of competing with revolvers, including rimfires. I am glad to see another student of the vertical reload.

Cheers and have a happy New Year.

Copy, no issues on my end. I realize my reply looks a little cross now that I read it again. I should not post when I'm in a hurry.

[JHC]

I think it's an individual revolver's clearance more than the cartridge. We have a Model 17, 18, and 351C around here. The 18 and 17 date way back to the 60's and 70's. The 17 will crud up and bind faster than either the .22 LR 18 or the .22 mag 351C. Rimfire wheelies just vary like that.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

So what do we think of this?

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/01/04/standard-manufacturing-volleyfire/

Might be a blast to fire 2 22 Mags at once.

Try it and let me know.

[OlongJohnson]

TLDR on the article, but I'm going with double derp. Change my mind.

[Totem Polar]

TLDR on the article, but I'm going with double derp. Change my mind.

Total wyatt derp. Looks like something only a Clingon would carry, and yes, I spelled that correctly...

[sharps54]

Is there a reason the makers of high quality single action clones go crazy and start making zip guns? Does Colt have a black ops team that sneaks into their competitors break room and lace the coffee with acid? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Gun Mutt]

I've said before that my wife loves her 351c so much that even if I didn't like it, which I do, I'd still love it. A very close friend pocket carries his 43c daily and it, too, is a fine little revolver, or at least, his sample is. It has come as great shock to me to learn that my answer to which S&W .22 j-frame is most emphatically, Ruger LCR.

33969

[Chuck Haggard]

I've said before that my wife loves her 351c so much that even if I didn't like it, which I do, I'd still love it. A very close friend pocket carries his 43c daily and it, too, is a fine little revolver, or at least, his sample is. It has come as great shock to me to learn that my answer to which S&W .22 j-frame is most emphatically, Ruger LCR.

33969

Ohhh, who makes those Ruger stocks?

[Gun Mutt]

Ohhh, who makes those Ruger stocks?

Hogue G10's (https://www.hogueinc.com/grips/ruger/lcr/enclosed/g10). I've some fairly serious dremel plans for them, fwiw, maybe VZ will take note and build the perfect set. I'll post further in an LCR thread later.

[JHC]

Lucky Gunner tests.

175 fps advantage in 9mm +P vs standard would not be nothing eh?

Penetration advantage of those 175 fps was rather substantial

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/22-magnum-is-pretty-good/?fbclid=IwAR12HeKH8RW2Sw36_SLelYPllpmnXKQF5daLq8wU OMnN-PVMY-LSIwwOA4o

[Wheeler]

Lucky Gunner tests.

175 fps advantage in 9mm +P vs standard would not be nothing eh?

Penetration advantage of those 175 fps was rather substantial

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/22-magnum-is-pretty-good/?fbclid=IwAR12HeKH8RW2Sw36_SLelYPllpmnXKQF5daLq8wU OMnN-PVMY-LSIwwOA4o

I was surprised at his findings. I had just about talked myself into ditching my 351c for something else, like perhaps a second 43c until I watched that video. I suppose I'll hold on to it for now unless someone offers me a 431 or 432 for trade. :)

[sharps54]

I’m impressed by both the extra penetration and the fact there is some expansion. That plus the admittedly nebulous advantage of the louder report make .22 Magnum worth looking at again over .22 LR in these snubs.

[willie]

Unless this fact has changed, the 351C has a heavier mainspring, like 15 lbs. The reason is that S&W engineers observed misfires that they could not explain but then reasoned that the gun's 11 oz weigh is so light that hammer mass when falling caused the revolver to be pushed forward. One result was the cases moving to the rear at the same time the firing pin hit the rim. Hence misfires resulted, and the factory increase spring weight to accommodate this situation.

[Wheeler]

Unless this fact has changed, the 351C has a heavier mainspring, like 15 lbs. The reason is that S&W engineers observed misfires that they could not explain but then reasoned that the gun's 11 oz weigh is so light that hammer mass when falling caused the revolver to be pushed forward. One result was the cases moving to the rear at the same time the firing pin hit the rim. Hence misfires resulted, and the factory increase spring weight to accommodate this situation.

Mine has the Apex kit. No misfires thus far with decent ammo. The older stuff is hit and miss and I’ll have to check my notes. I’m still not buying into the whole deal about a heavier main spring being necessary on new ammo.

[willie]

I was surprised at his findings. I had just about talked myself into ditching my 351c for something else, like perhaps a second 43c until I watched that video. I suppose I'll hold on to it for now unless someone offers me a 431 or 432 for trade. :)

No doubt some ammo companies are loading the .22 Magnum with faster powder so the round will perform better in short barrels. For decades we had only ammo designed for rifles or longer barrel handguns. Still, we have to decide if the round's extra cost justifies buying it. Since the .22 Mag round operates at very high pressure, this fact may be the reason that Apex's longer firing pin for J frames is not recommended for handguns chambered in magnum J frames(or for the regular rimfire round guns either).

[JHC]

I’m impressed by both the extra penetration and the fact there is some expansion. That plus the admittedly nebulous advantage of the louder report make .22 Magnum worth looking at again over .22 LR in these snubs.


re expansion . . . I could change someday I guess, but for this needle shooter I load ours with CCI 40 grain FMJ. Like I would with a .380.

[OlongJohnson]

No doubt some ammo companies are loading the .22 Magnum with faster powder so the round will perform better in short barrels. For decades we had only ammo designed for rifles or longer barrel handguns. Still, we have to decide if the round's extra cost justifies buying it. Since the .22 Mag round operates at very high pressure, this fact may be the reason that Apex's longer firing pin for J frames is not recommended for handguns chambered in magnum J frames(or for the regular rimfire round guns either).

The idea that faster powder performs better in shorter barrels is a misconception, at least as far as velocity. It is generally held that the powder that gives the fastest muzzle velocity in a long barrel for a given projectile and cartridge will also give the fastest muzzle velocity in a short barrel, keeping maximum pressures and everything else the same. There may be more flash and blast, and perhaps unburned kernels, with the slower powder in the short barrel. In the Lucky Gunner tests, the three cartridges tested are all running around 1100 +/- fps. We don't know anything about the pressures. Bullet jacket hardness is an obvious variable.

It is possible to vary the projectile's characteristics (i.e., expansion) to better suit it to slower muzzle velocity expected with a shorter barrel. And with a barrel much shorter than optimal for a cartridge, such as a snubby with .22WMR, the difference in muzzle velocity between the optimum rifle-barrel powder and a faster powder may be minimal, so that the reduced flash and blast of a faster powder becomes preferable. But a cartridge so tailored may fall behind the cartridge tailored for the longer barrel, when both are shot in the longer barrel.

[willie]

I agree that this misconception may apply to some centerfire handgun applications. Slower powders are more likely to have pressure curves producing higher velocities within acceptable pressure range. Longer barrels take advantage of this type pressure curve. In J frame .22 mag snub length barrels, my opinion(no references)is that Hornady used faster powders to produce their current performance level. Be aware that faster can mean slightly faster and not greatly faster on that long continuum of burn rate. Also I think that advancements in this are proprietary and not disclosed. Two variables are bullet weight and bullet diameter. In the 1960s the Super Vel brand achieved high performance by reducing both. Colt revolver barrel diameter in .38 spl was .354. I would load up hot ammo for my 6 inch Official Police using 9mm jacketed bullets and a heavy load of 2400.

[Wheeler]

No doubt some ammo companies are loading the .22 Magnum with faster powder so the round will perform better in short barrels. For decades we had only ammo designed for rifles or longer barrel handguns. Still, we have to decide if the round's extra cost justifies buying it. Since the .22 Mag round operates at very high pressure, this fact may be the reason that Apex's longer firing pin for J frames is not recommended for handguns chambered in magnum J frames(or for the regular rimfire round guns either).

I’m using rifle ammo.

The .22 Mag has the same SAAMI rating as .22 LR neither of which is a “very high pressure,” 24,000 PSI to be precise. That’s 11,000 PSI less that standard pressure 9mm.

I’m not using an Apex firing pin, just the springs.

In short my experiences with the 351c have been positive in both function and accuracy. What have your experiences been?

[willie]

My misfires were with the older J frames series guns. Since I used them for plinking, I was not perturbed by them. I have no personal experience with the current J frame .22's but have thee newer .38 spls, but these do not apply to your question. I did not know that the .22 mag operated at .22 rimfire pressures. I do know that many years ago S&W discontinued the magnum J frames because the .22 mag round caused flame cutting on the top strap. Later, some of their .22 mag revolvers had a metal shield to prevent gas cutting. I have had personal experience with five J frame .22 rimfires but admit to being out of date in the sense that I have not owned a current model. After I wrote the post above, I looked back to determine a reference for my opinion and found an American Rifleman article on the subject of the J frame snubs and the .22 Magnum. I have fired at least 75,000 rounds of .22 l.r. ammo through revolvers: High Standard, S&W, H&R, and Ruger. I became accustomed to occasional misfires. I accepted them as the nature of the beast. I noticed variations from lot to lot. Yes. I received my ammo in lots. I suggest that the person depending on a rimfire for self defense identify at least one lot that shows reliability in his weapon and retain it.

[Wheeler]

My misfires were with the older J frames series guns. Since I used them for plinking, I was not perturbed by them. I have no personal experience with the current J frame .22's but have thee newer .38 spls, but these do not apply to your question. I did not know that the .22 mag operated at .22 rimfire pressures. I do know that many years ago S&W discontinued the magnum J frames because the .22 mag round caused flame cutting on the top strap. Later, some of their .22 mag revolvers had a metal shield to prevent gas cutting. I have had personal experience with five J frame .22 rimfires but admit to being out of date in the sense that I have not owned a current model. After I wrote the post above, I looked back to determine a reference for my opinion and found an American Rifleman article on the subject of the J frame snubs and the .22 Magnum. I have fired at least 75,000 rounds of .22 l.r. ammo through revolvers: High Standard, S&W, H&R, and Ruger. I became accustomed to occasional misfires. I accepted them as the nature of the beast. I noticed variations from lot to lot. Yes. I received my ammo in lots. I suggest that the person depending on a rimfire for self defense identify at least one lot that shows reliability in his weapon and retain it.

CCI Stingers and CCI MaxiMags are a good starting point for .22 LR and .22 Mag respectively.

[willie]

That's good information.

[jandbj]

Got a Sales Quotation in the mail from S&W... $103. “sent from warranty dept due to custom springs”
$45 for estimate and range test, $45 for 1/2 hour of PC labor, $13 for return shipping.

Guess I should’ve changed those back before shipping it. :mad:

I do wonder what springs it will return with.
Finally got the only person you can pay on the phone. She said I can expect it back in 4-6 weeks. :mad:

[Totem Polar]

Finally got the only person you can pay on the phone. She said I can expect it back in 4-6 weeks. :mad:

I hope it works.

[wmu12071]

Sorry to bring back a old thread but I don't see need for a new thread.

Anyone have problems with hard ejection from their 43c? I mean like hitting it hard enough I'm worried about bending the ejector rod.

[Half Moon]

Sorry to bring back a old thread but I don't see need for a new thread.

Anyone have problems with hard ejection from their 43c? I mean like hitting it hard enough I'm worried about bending the ejector rod.

Have you tried a variety of ammo? For instance, our K-22 target masterpiece has bad ejection like that with Aguila (don't remember which variety but the cases swell real tight in the k-22's chambers) but no problems with anything else we've shot through it. FWIW our go to in .22 is mini-mags.

[wmu12071]

Have you tried a variety of ammo? For instance, our K-22 target masterpiece has bad ejection like that with Aguila (don't remember which variety but the cases swell real tight in the k-22's chambers) but no problems with anything else we've shot through it. FWIW our go to in .22 is mini-mags.

The only thing I had with me last night was Super X. I bought some CCI Stingers and Mini-mags to try today.

[Polecat]

Both my 317 and 43c were finicky. Took a-lot of trial and error to find some that eject well. I have noticed a-lot of variation as to grouping, smokiness, ejection. Had a Taurus 94 that was much easier. I liked the Taurus as it held 9 rounds. I traded it out cause it was heavy as it was all stainless. Really wish Smith and Ruger would take heed. Ruger doesnt need to be 16 oz and hold only 6 and 8 rounds. The Smith should be 9 and 8 rounds for LR and WMR respectively.

[Totem Polar]

Sorry to bring back a old thread but I don't see need for a new thread.

Anyone have problems with hard ejection from their 43c? I mean like hitting it hard enough I'm worried about bending the ejector rod.

Yeah. There’s just a bunch of surface area inside those 8 chambers, and they dirty up quickly. Pretty common to need to chop away at the ejector rod to get all the empties out, IME.

[Blades]

Bumping an old thread:
Is the 43c getting scarce? Should I have bought the one I saw today? :) I don't need one but I've bought plenty of stuff in the past I didn't "need."

[JHC]

Bumping an old thread:
Is the 43c getting scarce? Should I have bought the one I saw today? :) I don't need one but I've bought plenty of stuff in the past I didn't "need."

I thought they were always scarce. I've been watching for one in multiple LGS and I have not seen one is years.

Now in forever work from home mode, I've absconded our 351C and it's my constant pocket companion around the property albeit a service pistol is never far away.

[jandbj]

Buy one (both) when you find one.

I have both the 43c (presently out on covid/civil unrest loan) & 351c that was a recent acquisition.

Unlike a number of other j frames over a lot of years, these seem far more likely to be long term keepers.

[jandbj]

Been over a year since my last post on the 351c.

Quite a few more rounds through it without issue, but the trigger still sucked. Remedied that.

Brought it to Mike LaRocca at LaRoccagunworks in Worcester MA for a trigger job. Kept all the stock springs in place and just smoooooothed out all the innards. With the XS night sight, it’s now my future “old man pocket gun”

If you’re in New England and driving distance from Mike, don’t hesitate to take your S&W wheelguns to Mike NOW! He literally learned at the feet of the master at Pachmayr. And he says he’s slowing down now with plans to be fully retired in a year.

PS. If you also have a 43c in need of a new home, Mike is looking for one.

ETA : My 43c still works slicker than snot and on indefinite loan.

[Blades]

I forgot I posted in this thread. I finally got a 43c, used one, so I saved a few bucks. I accidentally won some grips on Ebay and installed them. While I like the color they are slick! They are G-10 so I need to rough them up or checker them.
https://i.imgur.com/ReLQ3J1.jpg

[PNWTO]

This thread makes me want to give the 351PD some more time; love the weight but my LCR .22 is such a great shooter.


79613

[Doc_Glock]

I have something like 2200 rounds through the 43C attempting to shoot it into submission.

It will reliably cycle 8 rounds when fresh and clean which is its role. Trigger sits around 12-13lbs or just out of my trigger pull gauge range.

I still get about 1/75 failure to ignite Minimags which invariably light off the second hit. It also sticks in the cylinder with Minimags. Clean, not clean, doesn't seem to matter. I have polished the cylinders to no avail.

Still spits some lead above and in front of forcing cone but it hasn't worsened.

It can be quite accurate if I am up to the task but single handed shooting, especially as the speeds increase can be a disaster. Good for training.

All in all, I like it don't love it and feel for the money it should be...Nicer? Better finished? Not ammo sensitive? Still I can't complain about durability because I have dry fired it a lot plus shot it and it has yet to break.

If I can ever get a 5k package of SV ammo I think this gun would like that a lot better.

[Doc_Glock]

Mine shipped back from the mothership (for the second time) today. I am really hoping that S&W got the little wheelie dialed in for me.

So what was the end of your story here?

[Totem Polar]

So what was the end of your story here?

The never did get it right. Safe queen.

[JHC]

Yeah. There’s just a bunch of surface area inside those 8 chambers, and they dirty up quickly. Pretty common to need to chop away at the ejector rod to get all the empties out, IME.

I really love our 351C but I don't consider it a handgun I'll be reloading in a fight. That's not happening due to the challenging .22 mag ejection with every ammo tried in it. No; things go prehistoric at that point. ;)

I was recently shooting Ready 1's on the timer at 25 yards. It prints a bit high and then the effect of a snubbie and the eyes wanting to see more sight pushed my shots high but I wasn't disappointed.

79674

[jandbj]

Been awhile since I’ve added a pic. Here’s the 351c. Right at 12oz with 7 rounds of gold dots.

[Blades]

In case anyone is looking for a 351c, the shop (https://edsgunshop.com/product/smith-wesson-351c-double-action-only-small-frame-22-wmr-1-875-barrel-alloy-frame-black-finish-rubber-grips-fixed-sights-7rd-with-out-internal-lock-103351/) where I bought my 43c has one.

[JWH]

This thread seems as good a place as any for this question.

How ruined is a 317 airlite with the anodizing polished off of the cylinder face?

Is it fixable?

My lgs has one in the case for $800, which is super clean except for the above damage.

[Duelist]

This thread seems as good a place as any for this question.

How ruined is a 317 airlite with the anodizing polished off of the cylinder face?

Is it fixable?

My lgs has one in the case for $800, which is super clean except for the above damage.

S&W will re-anodize it for a fee - when I asked about re-anodizing the frame of my 642, they quoted me a bit over $200, IIRC. That seemed excessive for the frame of a daily carried pocket gun, so the finish is still ugly. On the cylinder, I would have it refinished so the firing of the gun doesn’t erode the aluminum. And I certainly wouldn’t pay $800 for such a project gun.

[JHC]

In case anyone is looking for a 351c, the shop (https://edsgunshop.com/product/smith-wesson-351c-double-action-only-small-frame-22-wmr-1-875-barrel-alloy-frame-black-finish-rubber-grips-fixed-sights-7rd-with-out-internal-lock-103351/) where I bought my 43c has one.

But not Ed's in Pinehurst right?

[taadski]

My lgs has one in the case for $800, which is super clean except for the above damage.

Gunbroker has several 317s NIB for under 800 bones. FWIW.

[Blades]

I'm trying pocket carry with my 43C since once in a while we have some cold weather in Fayetteville. I don't have a thyroid anymore(#fuckcancer) so I'm usually cold and when it gets below 60 degrees I'm really cold.

The Airlite is light, but still heavy. I tried it by itself but it was too much. I tried it with an extra 15 round magazine for my Glock but it's not enough weight. I borrowed my wife's food scale to see what my 43C weighed:
https://i.imgur.com/9Q3BXws.jpg
15.3 ounces (the G10 grips add a lot of weight, but I like the white grip and black revolver).

The perfect counterweight would be another Airlite, but they ain't cheap. A nice sap or blackjack would be perfect but still more than I want to pay at this time(saving up for a P365 because I bought a Boresite Solutions Razorback module and I think it solved the issue I had with the P365). I have a little pouch from County Comm full of quarters and a few dimes, and guess what? It weighs 15.4 ounces.
https://i.imgur.com/RFGE8Wc.jpg

Now I'm thinking if I attach a lanyard I'll have an okay coin sap. I'm guessing it would only survive one hit, but that hit would be an explosion of $14.00's in quarters and almost $2.00 in dimes. It jingles more than I like so I may add a handkerchief in it to keep the jingle down. I don't plan to pocket carry very often but having usable counterweight makes it easier.