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GJM
08-15-2017, 07:36 PM
Just got it mounted, but have not shot it yet. Preliminary impressions very favorable. Leaves the action unencumbered, which makes it pleasant to carry in the field. Low mount, making cheek weld work with conventional stocks. Here it is on a Benelli M2.

19073

SeriousStudent
08-15-2017, 08:09 PM
Did you get yours through your cool guy channels, or can us mere mortals snag one of these?

I'd love to snag one sometime in the next two weeks before a class.

I'll look forward to your observations on reloading and carrying in the field.

Permethrin
08-15-2017, 08:35 PM
would love to get some of your impressions on zero differences between different loads, if you have an interest in doing such a thing.

i'd imagine that this gun primarily stays loaded with a single type of load and perhaps shot with that one and another at most?

cool stuff

Permethrin
08-15-2017, 08:37 PM
Did you get yours through your cool guy channels, or can us mere mortals snag one of these?

I'd love to snag one sometime in the next two weeks before a class.

I'll look forward to your observations on reloading and carrying in the field.


available on midway and a few others e-tailers - search UPC 7350004385454

decided to say f it and just ordered one.

GJM
08-15-2017, 08:40 PM
Did you get yours through your cool guy channels, or can us mere mortals snag one of these?

I'd love to snag one sometime in the next two weeks before a class.

I'll look forward to your observations on reloading and carrying in the field.

Regular channels, Strohman Enterprises. Should carry great in the field, as I prefer to hold the shotgun with my hand around the action.


would love to get some of your impressions on zero differences between different loads, if you have an interest in doing such a thing.

i'd imagine that this gun primarily stays loaded with a single type of load and perhaps shot with that one and another at most?

cool stuff

I plan to zero it at 25 yards with Brenneke Classic Magnum slugs, shooting as few slugs as possible, and then carry it. Will periodically confirm zero. Having torn a retina three years or so ago, I try to minimize light, heavy recoiling guns smacking my face.

LOKNLOD
08-15-2017, 10:03 PM
Whoa whoa whoa... this is an aim point that mounts directly to a vent rib? Sorcery!!

Now...Will it fit my 1301 comp, and where can I find one?

SeriousStudent
08-15-2017, 10:36 PM
Cheapest price I have found so far: $673 at Universal Mania. I have never shopped with them before, however. So that should not be construed as an endorsement.

https://www.universalmania.com/products/aimpoint-micro-s-1-with-mount?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI96z8qOna1QIVBI9pCh3ZHwYAEA YYAyABEgL0h_D_BwE

GJM
08-15-2017, 10:37 PM
Cheapest price I have found so far: $673 at Universal Mania. I have never shopped with them before, however. So that should not be construed as an endorsement.

https://www.universalmania.com/products/aimpoint-micro-s-1-with-mount?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI96z8qOna1QIVBI9pCh3ZHwYAEA YYAyABEgL0h_D_BwE

Check Strohman!

SeriousStudent
08-15-2017, 10:41 PM
Check Strohman!

I am but a lowly civilian commoner. I thought one had to be a military or LEO to order from him?

I looked on their website and did not see them. I can call him tomorrow.

GJM
08-15-2017, 11:05 PM
I am but a lowly civilian commoner. I thought one had to be a military or LEO to order from him?

I looked on their website and did not see them. I can call him tomorrow.

Try "FOD," friend of Darryl.

Unobtanium
08-16-2017, 03:04 AM
I am but a lowly civilian commoner. I thought one had to be a military or LEO to order from him?

I looked on their website and did not see them. I can call him tomorrow.

I've ordered before. No referral needed.

farscott
08-16-2017, 05:30 AM
Very interesting. Wondering if I can use the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) to float the bird for trap using a standard stock. While I have a dedicated trap gun, I would prefer to use non-Monte Carlo stocked guns on occasion.

NH Shooter
08-16-2017, 05:36 AM
That is slick. I can see one of these on my 1187.

Poconnor
08-16-2017, 06:12 AM
So if I understand GJM correctly I should dump that cool nostalgic benelli M1 super 90 I just put on lay away and go directly to the M2?

willie
08-16-2017, 08:36 AM
A trap stock with its higher comb would be perfect for this application. In the past many 870s and 1100s had trap stock. Thus finding one for either of these shotguns would not be difficult. Once I put a Red Dot on a Mossberg 500 and experimented with it. Other than being clumsy it worked. The op has a good idea and has applied the scout rifle concept to a shotgun.

GJM
08-16-2017, 06:27 PM
19093

GJM
08-16-2017, 10:17 PM
Just got back to our cabin mid afternoon. Very lousy weather, with the freezing level and icing down to 4,000 feet msl. Moderate to heavy rain, high 40's and significant wind when I headed to the gravel pit to zero the S1 -- so typical Alaska weather when you might need a shotgun to defend yourself.

Mounted the optic yesterday, using the "A" and "1" plates, which seem the right ones for a Benelli M2 vent rib. Took 15 Brenneke slugs with me, which I judged to be my pain threshold for one session shooting from kneeling and/or sitting, aiming as carefully as you do zeroing. Started at 25 yards, which is my shotgun zero distance as it puts me on at 25, a bit high at 50, and on again at 75. First slug missed the entire USPSA cardboard, which was unexpected. Went to 10 yards, and hit 2/3 of the way to the right edge of the target, and about three inches high. Stated twisting adjustment like crazy, and with three more slugs, got it zeroed at 25. Went to 50 and it was a few inches high as expected, then to 75 yards where the combination of heavy rain, the 6 moa dot, and a very wet display, made it hard. Put one shot right into the cluster and one four or five inches left.

Overall, I was very impressed with the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF). The gun was extremely soft to shoot today, and I wished I had brought more Brenneke slugs with me. I then shot some bird shot at a steel plate, and it seemed very fast to get on target, using both eyes open, with very little of your downrange view obscured.

I tried to wipe the gobs of water off the front lens and was startled looking at the front lens, as it seemed tilted and possibly broken. Got back to the cabin, and my other T2 units were identical, so it is obviously something about the design. Shows how observant I have been with past units, but with Brenneke slugs, I am always wary of things coming apart. Need to do some more testing, but right now I am really liking the S1.

Unobtanium
08-17-2017, 09:49 AM
Very canted front lens is design feature/parameter. All is well.

GJM
08-17-2017, 11:22 AM
Just an observation -- the S1 appears to be T1 technology as opposed to having the features of the T2/H2.

GJM
08-17-2017, 11:37 AM
That's probably why they called it the S1 and not the S2. :)


Good thing you are the boss, or you would get booted to General Discussion for that. :p

GJM
08-17-2017, 01:22 PM
More thoughts. Just back from gravel pit, light rain and low 40's here.

Fine tuned the zero on the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF), and shot it back to 50. Zero seems stable from yesterday.

So S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) on vent rib versus H2 in Scalarworks mount over action? If you have a vent rib the S1 will be easier, and if you have a Tactical model drilled for a rail, obviously the Scalarworks mount will be easier. Subjectively, I feel like the Scalarworks mount will be stronger as it has two screws and two posts, where the S1 is clamping the vent rib and relying on two screws pushing on the clamp piece. I put witness paint on the vent rib before this morning's session and it did not seem to move. However, last night the two screws seemed a smidge looser than I remember, but my recollection may be imperfect (I lean towards that I did not fully tighten them, as they are fine after shooting just now).

I prefer the improvements to the T2/H2 over the legacy micro the S1 is based on, in terms of more durable connections (per Bolke/Dobbs), the option of clear lens covers, and a cleaner dot. That cleaner dot probably is more of a factor at carbine distances than shotgun. The 2 moa H2 versus 6 moa S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) is personal preference, with the bigger dot nice for close charging furry things, and the smaller dot better for 75 yard groups.

Subjectively, the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) mounted further away from my face seems nice for quick and dirty shotgun work, and not sure why but recoil seems more palatable with dot further away from my face. Both positions are plenty fast, and differences likely fall in the inconsequential increment territory. For field carry, the clean action with the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) is a major plus.

At this point, I need to live with the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) in the field for a month or two, and verify it holds the optic securely to know whether I like it or the Scalarworks conventional position for the optic better.

GJM
08-17-2017, 07:21 PM
When the rain let up, we hopped over to a ridge for some hiking and gear testing. The open action makes the shotgun feel much lighter and handier.

19135

Unobtanium
08-17-2017, 07:21 PM
I view the scalarworks as an attempt to "m4-ify" the shotgun, while the s1 is an attempt to enhance the shotgun in its more traditional role.

I like my m4, and want a shotgun that mirrors it (pistol grip, t2, light at 11 o'cloco, etc). Scalarworks is my choice. Still others may like the swing and point of a shotgun, and the s1 may be their better choice.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
08-17-2017, 09:11 PM
George in your last pic. holding your SG, does the the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) have something attached to the left side of it?

GJM
08-17-2017, 09:28 PM
George in your last pic. holding your SG, does the the S1 have something attached to the left side of it?

That is the plate, with two screws, that holds the S1 on the vent rib.

Dagga Boy
08-18-2017, 10:14 AM
Got my first one yesterday. Mounted it up to my M2 3 gun last night and will start shooting it next week to prep for a shotgun class the next weekend. I mounted it dead center of the center rib. It would basically be one rib ahead of where GJM's is on his shorty. So far....love the thing.

Rex G
08-19-2017, 09:21 AM
When the rain let up, we hopped over to a ridge for some hiking and gear testing. The open action makes the shotgun feel much lighter and handier.

19135

This is how I prefer to hold a shotgun, when covering long distances relatively quickly, and is a significant reason I bought a 21" ribbed M2 barrel, in anticipation of adding an S-1.

Dagga Boy
08-22-2017, 03:44 PM
Broke in the Benelli M2 today. So far, love the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF). I have a lot of weight on the M2, and function was great with everything from slug, low recoils slug, and low base bird shot out of the "misc. leftover stuff " bag. Using the GJM method, I got centered at 10 yards, zero at 25 and re shot at 7. Shoots a little low at 7 with low recoil home defense slug. The comfortech stock is awesome. Slugs were nearly pleasant.
I will run the gun hard Sunday in class and see how it pans out as the goal of a do it all gun.

coldcase1984
08-23-2017, 04:16 PM
DB, you running the compact stock or the regular Comfortech?

Dagga Boy
08-23-2017, 05:04 PM
DB, you running the compact stock or the regular Comfortech?

Regular. At some point my girlfriend will be getting an M2 Youth with the short stock. I do okay with the big one.

GJM
08-25-2017, 10:23 PM
I am at about 50 Brenneke Classic Magnum slugs through the M2/S1 combo, and each time I have shot it, I have sensed recoil to feel less than when shooting a similar M2 with the micro over the receiver. Not sure why, perhaps having the optic further away from the face contributes to the better feeling.

Dagga Boy
08-28-2017, 07:10 AM
Ran mine in class this weekend. Really happy with it so far. I would agree with GJM....Recoil seems tamer, don't know why.

Unobtanium
08-28-2017, 07:34 AM
I am at about 50 Brenneke Classic Magnum slugs through the M2/S1 combo, and each time I have shot it, I have sensed recoil to feel less than when shooting a similar M2 with the micro over the receiver. Not sure why, perhaps having the optic further away from the face contributes to the better feeling.

Recoil coming straight back is nicer than rotating, IMO. This helps facilitate that. It also damps total amount of recoil as it's leveraging its mass, little though it may be.

Chuck Haggard
08-28-2017, 01:22 PM
I am but a lowly civilian commoner. I thought one had to be a military or LEO to order from him?

I looked on their website and did not see them. I can call him tomorrow.

Joe is a good dude, and a Marine, so that should help you as well....

Chuck Haggard
08-28-2017, 01:23 PM
What all vent ribs does this run with?

Dagga Boy
08-28-2017, 01:49 PM
What all vent ribs does this run with?

It has a kit where you measure your rib and add the right combination of parts for it to fit. Weirdly by Benelli M2 has a different size rib than the Benelli Sport II.

SpyderMan2k4
08-28-2017, 05:32 PM
I got to play with this a bit at SHOT, definitely a cool idea. Plus vent ribs are sexy.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Dagga Boy
08-28-2017, 06:42 PM
Picture from this weekends class. I absolutely am sold so far.

SeriousStudent
08-28-2017, 06:55 PM
Joe is a good dude, and a Marine, so that should help you as well....

Excellent. We shall sing the song of our people, and I'll get me a new optic. :)

Or two.

SeriousStudent
08-28-2017, 07:01 PM
Picture from this weekends class. I absolutely am sold so far.

Yup, I'm going to get two - one for the 870 SBS, and one for the testbed 870. I'd love a mount for my 1301 as well, but I'm not holding my breath.

I got to sneak a peek through yours late in the afternoon. Like you mentioned, it definitely improves feeding the pig. I'm betting recovery time when firing on movers would also be a teensy bit faster, with the optic taking less space in one's field of view.

Xrslug
08-28-2017, 08:03 PM
Looking at the pic of D shooting, I'm wondering if the reduction in felt recoil has to do with the different cheek weld needed for the receiver mounted vs rib mounted optic.

Dagga Boy
09-14-2017, 08:17 AM
Took the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) on my Benelli out to shoot clays yesterday. The plan was to shoot some Trap to figure this thing out, but one Trap field was in use for a league shoot, and the other was declined with a mechanical issue. This left Sporting Clays. I am a complete newb to this and have shot sporting clays exactly once in my life. That was the event where we found yelling "carjacker" or North Korean Paratroopers" instead of "pull" is frowned upon in those circles. The gist is I do not have a clue what I am doing. My girlfriend is a trap shooting fiend, but is also inexperienced in sporting clays. She was testing Beretta's new Over Under designed specifically for women shooters.

The results were interesting. Once I figured out where to hold on the bird, the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) was awesome. Even shooting directly into the sun, the dot never washed out. For birds flying over me, or at me, the S1 was awesome and on one stage did not miss any of the ten birds. Things were mighty stellar till I got to the last two stations that had very fast moving birds from the side, and one that threw a sideways wobbling bird. I blanked 8 straight on that as my "defensive shotgunning" stopping and aiming thing kicked my tail. I think it can be done well with the S1 and I plan on getting professional instruction. I went 37 for 50, which considering I lost 8 at one station, I think was fairly good for a total newb. Basically, having no sport shotgunning experience, but a lot of defensive shotgun experience with a red dot should translate well for me. Just need to get better at moving the gun faster and following through.

On a side note, I used the Beretta women's gun (690 Vittoria) on one of the stages where I had problems with my gun, and simply obliterated the two birds. Made me think that because that women's gunactually fits me well because I shoot square on the gun off my pec that the gun fit helped with swinging it with the path of the birds at speed combined with a really solid weld on the gun, it was a benefit. I am shooting a charity shoot tomorrow, so we'll see how things go. So far, I am still loving the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF), just need to stay dedicated to the working and training to master the concept.

spinmove_
09-14-2017, 08:27 AM
Took the S1 on my Benelli out to shoot clays yesterday. The plan was to shoot some Trap to figure this thing out, but one Trap field was in use for a league shoot, and the other was declined with a mechanical issue. This left Sporting Clays. I am a complete newb to this and have shot sporting clays exactly once in my life. That was the event where we found yelling "carjacker" or North Korean Paratroopers" instead of "pull" is frowned upon in those circles. The gist is I do not have a clue what I am doing. My girlfriend is a trap shooting fiend, but is also inexperienced in sporting clays. She was testing Beretta's new Over Under designed specifically for women shooters.
The results were interesting. Once I figured out where to hold on the bird, the S1 was awesome. Even shooting directly into the sun, the dot never washed out. For birds flying over me, or at me, the S1 was awesome and on one stage did not miss any of the ten birds. Things were mighty stellar till I got to the last two stations that had very fast moving birds from the side, and one that threw a sideways wobbling bird. I blanked 8 straight on that as my "defensive shotgunning" stopping and aiming thing kicked my tail. I think it can be done well with the S1 and I plan on getting professional instruction. I went 37 for 50, which considering I lost 8 at one station, I think was fairly good for a total newb. Basically, having no sport shotgunning experience, but a lot of defensive shotgun experience with a red dot should translate well for me. Just need to get better at moving the gun faster and following through.
On a side note, I used the Beretta women's gun (690 Vittoria) on one of the stages where I had problems with my gun, and simply obliterated the two birds. Made me think that because that women's gunactually fits me well because I shoot square on the gun off my pec that the gun fit helped with swinging it with the path of the birds at speed combined with a really solid weld on the gun, it was a benefit. I am shooting a charity shoot tomorrow, so we'll see how things go. So far, I am still loving the S1, just need to stay dedicated to the working and training to master the concept.

Those fast side to side shots can be a real PITA. I've got another sporting clay outing with my friends happening this Saturday. I'm hoping to match or beat my all time record of 46/50. 37/50 isn't bad at all for someone who never does it. Good shooting and keep it up!


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

Dagga Boy
09-15-2017, 10:13 PM
Had some super interesting observations today. We had some instructors helping us. To say that they were against the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) was an understatement....and refused to even look through it. Not a big deal, but funny. So, first stage was ten birds that all come towards you. Went 9 out of ten. And knew exactly why I missed the one. Like the pistol, the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) will show you your errors. I knew where my barrel was in relationship to the bird precisely when every shot was broken. Having some instructors around really helped on the side to side stuff and learning how to read the birds and the leads needed. For me, huge learning curve, but the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) is not what the issue is for me. I am actually finding it to be a huge help.

My girlfriend and I had a very unique incident happen that GJM may find interesting and a good reason for a S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) on a gun for protecting against animal charges. We had a stage where the first shot was a bird that came in a crossing pattern towards the shooter station with a bunch of "trees" in front of you. The bird broke coming out of the thrower into a single piece that was about a third of the bird, and the large 2/3 portion of the clay target was coming straight into the window of the stand where my girlfriend was using the controller for the bird maybe four feet from my right. I simply planted that dot on the chunk and vaporize it maybe five yard in front of the window. For a charging animal, I imagine that level of speed and precision would be a huge benefit. Hopefully, I will get some Trap in with it next week.

GJM
09-15-2017, 10:18 PM
A sighting system that allows you to look at, and keep your focus on a moving target, sure seems like an advantage to me.

SeriousStudent
09-15-2017, 10:30 PM
Had some super interesting observations today. We had some instructors helping us. To say that they were against the S1 was an understatement....and refused to even look through it. Not a big deal, but funny. So, first stage was ten birds that all come towards you. Went 9 out of ten. And knew exactly why I missed the one. Like the pistol, the S1 will show you your errors. I knew where my barrel was in relationship to the bird precisely when every shot was broken. Having some instructors around really helped on the side to side stuff and learning how to read the birds and the leads needed. For me, huge learning curve, but the S1 is not what the issue is for me. I am actually finding it to be a huge help.

My girlfriend and I had a very unique incident happen that GJM may find interesting and a good reason for a S1 on a gun for protecting against animal charges. We had a stage where the first shot was a bird that came in a crossing pattern towards the shooter station with a bunch of "trees" in front of you. The bird broke coming out of the thrower into a single piece that was about a third of the bird, and the large 2/3 portion of the clay target was coming straight into the window of the stand where my girlfriend was using the controller for the bird maybe four feet from my right. I simply planted that dot on the chunk and vaporize it maybe five yard in front of the window. For a charging animal, I imagine that level of speed and precision would be a huge benefit. Hopefully, I will get some Trap in with it next week.

Two-legged or four-legged? A moving head shot in the middle of a bunch of no-shoots..... That sounds eerily familiar.

Dagga Boy
09-15-2017, 11:01 PM
A sighting system that allows you to look at, and keep your focus on a moving target, sure seems like an advantage to me.

Yep. Having my girlfriend look at my and exclaim, "holy crap that was coming straight at my face, great shot" was pure win. While all of the Aimpoints basically work the same, the thing I am liking with the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) is combined with a gun that really naturally fits to your body by design allows for you to do some very cool stuff with it. I think what the instructors today looked at as evil sorcery actually translates to I am basically able to hit birds with a rifle sight......think about that for a second? Along with the targets coming at me, I also only missed one of the rabbit targets, and again, knew exactly why.

While Aimpoint is obviously looking at this as a bit revolutionary in the shotgun sports and bird hunting realm, I am reversing that back to looking at the ability to use a shotgun with buck or slug to hit very fast moving things with a ton of control and Precison.

Dagga Boy
09-15-2017, 11:14 PM
Picture from my worst stage. Good view of the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF).

spinmove_
09-16-2017, 07:28 AM
Dagga Boy, I'm sure you probably answered this question already, but why is your S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) mounted where it is? Why not closer to the receiver?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

Dr_Thanatos
09-16-2017, 12:33 PM
DB,

I used to shoot clays with my dad a lot, he was very good, I'm fair to middling. One year we got some professional coaching as a gift. The change that made the biggest difference in my clay shooting was this. Treat the clay like you would a baseball. Which is to say, if you are swinging at a pitch, are you watching the bat, or the ball? With clays, the clay is tha ball, the shotgun is the bat. You probably shouldn't even see the gun, except out of your peripheral vision.

That concept is anathema to defensive shooting, and makes it hard to transition between the two. It is also a hard concept to articulate intelligibly and most shotgunners can't tell someone else what they are doing wrong. With that change, I picked up another 10-12 birds out of 100. And missed birds were usually me looking at the front bead.

Im interested in how the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) did, and I wonder if the sight reference point which allows you to maintain a hard target focus will work in clays. It should work really well with trap, and with some presentations in clays, but much like skeet, the fast crossing birds will be hard. But those tend to be the hardest types of birds for a defensive shooter anyway.

Good luck and have fun.

Sent from my SM-P905V using Tapatalk

Dagga Boy
09-16-2017, 12:57 PM
Dagga Boy, I'm sure you probably answered this question already, but why is your S1 mounted where it is? Why not closer to the receiver?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

Theory at this point, but here was my first thinking. On my carbines and defensive shotguns I mount the sight as far rearward as possible to get it in front of my eye as soon as possible from a Low ready. On these guns they start mounted and I want more peripheral vision, so farther forward gives me that. I basically split the rib and mount it centered on the rib for balance. Just a theory so far and not cast in stone, but it is working so far.

Andy in NH
09-17-2017, 10:23 PM
I've got mine mounted a little closer to the receiver of my Mossberg 930; so far, so good.

20107

Dagga Boy
09-18-2017, 07:16 AM
DB,

I used to shoot clays with my dad a lot, he was very good, I'm fair to middling. One year we got some professional coaching as a gift. The change that made the biggest difference in my clay shooting was this. Treat the clay like you would a baseball. Which is to say, if you are swinging at a pitch, are you watching the bat, or the ball? With clays, the clay is tha ball, the shotgun is the bat. You probably shouldn't even see the gun, except out of your peripheral vision.

That concept is anathema to defensive shooting, and makes it hard to transition between the two. It is also a hard concept to articulate intelligibly and most shotgunners can't tell someone else what they are doing wrong. With that change, I picked up another 10-12 birds out of 100. And missed birds were usually me looking at the front bead.

Im interested in how the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) did, and I wonder if the sight reference point which allows you to maintain a hard target focus will work in clays. It should work really well with trap, and with some presentations in clays, but much like skeet, the fast crossing birds will be hard. But those tend to be the hardest types of birds for a defensive shooter anyway.

Good luck and have fun.

Sent from my SM-P905V using Tapatalk

On the money so far with this post and my experience. Like golf, I understand clay shooting, just not good at it, and up till recently, didn't care. What generally is going on is that your focus is on the bird, and your eye is the rear sight. Yep, anathema to a defensive shooter. I have been shooting an Aimpoint on a 12 ga. Defensive gun since basically when the Comp M2 came out. For me, the red dot is the shotgun sight. We can make all sorts of various arguments for low power variables and things like ACOG's on rifles (I had ACOG number 687...early adopter on those too) versus the red dot. Valid argument. On the shotgun and sub gun....no argument, it is an Aimpoint world. So, I am very used to using an Aimpoint on a shotgun. Clays will always be nothing but fun to me. Trap will be the preferred discipline, and sporting clays will be a something different to do, no more no less. Basically, because I hate golf, and like guns.....sporting clays. When a rank newbie can go out and slaughter the first 9 out of ten clays thrown at me, there is something there with the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) on some types of targets. I also did much better with a really good coach basically explaining the bird flight and how to both read and lead the birds on the more difficult stages. When I had someone who knows what they are doing tell me where I needed to be, the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) let me put the barrel in that exact spot. Again, a benefit. I also don't think a lot of total rookies to the game can call shots. I know where my barrel was on every shot I missed. I think that is also a valuable thing. I would love to go to Aimpoints academy in Sweden to learn this right.

For me, from a practical standpoint, my M2 "50 state do it all long gun" is set up exactly the same sighting and function wise to my 28" barreled Benelli Sport that is a play gun. I think that is a good thing and unlike most, I think my clay shooting with the same sight that is on my defensive gun is a huge benefit because the clays becomes training doing the same thing sight wise and visually, where normally, clays is completely opposite to what we are teaching in the defensive world. I need to spend more time with both guns, but could even see getting a 28" barrel for my M2 with an S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) for my M2 and really use one gun for everything. Right now, the Benelli Sport doesn't offend anyone at the clay ranges (even with the Aimpoint, the pretty wood seems to make it sort of okay). Alternatively, if I really wanted to go low profile, I could cut a 28" Sport barrel down to 18 or 19 inches (the rib would guide the length) with an S1 and no chokes and have a great hotel room defensive shotgun that would completely fly under the radar.

I will be shooting Trap with the thing on Wed. If everything goes right, so we will see what happens with that.

Wayne Dobbs
09-18-2017, 09:26 AM
After last Friday's benefit clay shoot, I'm willing to try anything. 49/100...SMH.

farscott
09-18-2017, 10:42 AM
On a defensive gun with a vent rib (I built mine by cutting down a Wingmaster barrel to 18.75"), does it make more sense to mount the sight like the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) on the rib or closer to the eye? I like the idea of having the sight at the midpoint of the rib to help keep my focus on the target, but my eyes are not the best. I am also left-eye dominant and right-handed, and I taught myself how to shoot shotguns off my left shoulder. I can see the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) allowing me to shoot right-handed.

This thread is going to make me spend some money.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
09-18-2017, 11:01 AM
After last Friday's benefit clay shoot, I'm willing to try anything. 49/100...SMH.

Wait what? gotta say I'm stunned/surprised here brother, was that w/ a dot or ??

Dagga Boy
09-18-2017, 12:08 PM
Wait what? gotta say I'm stunned/surprised here brother, was that w/ a dot or ??

I was the only person at the range (or likely ever at the facility) running a dot. Wayne was using a traditional gun. We were squaded differently so I can't say what it was. Wayne has shot clays for a long time even recounting shooting skeet at the range we were on as a high school kid. The mere fact that I was even close on score says a lot. Also, we were dealing with some weird wind conditions that made things a bit tough. Several stages never gave a consistent throw on the birds because of the wind.

Wayne Dobbs
09-18-2017, 12:20 PM
I was the only person at the range (or likely ever at the facility) running a dot. Wayne was using a traditional gun. We were squaded differently so I can't say what it was. Wayne has shot clays for a long time even recounting shooting skeet at the range we were on as a high school kid. The mere fact that I was even close on score says a lot. Also, we were dealing with some weird wind conditions that made things a bit tough. Several stages never gave a consistent throw on the birds because of the wind.

And, not to make excuses, but lots of the stages were just plain difficult. It was still fun and the BBQ was a salve to my crappy score.

OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor
09-18-2017, 02:28 PM
And, not to make excuses, but lots of the stages were just plain difficult. It was still fun and the BBQ was a salve to my crappy score.

OK, the planet seems to be back on it axis now, but as Pat sometimes referred to WD, *The Wayne Dobbs* was involved here.

Also good to hear that some Q helped a man heal up 'n hair over as we say in da piney woods.

Dagga Boy
09-18-2017, 02:59 PM
OK, the planet seems to be back on it axis now, but as Pat sometimes referred to WD, *The Wayne Dobbs* was involved here.

Also good to hear that some Q helped a man heal up 'n hair over as we say in da piney woods.

Among the people there that actually shoot sporting clays for real, there were no amazing scores. It was tough and even the instructors out there said that the wind was just perfect from the right direction to make things really tough even for experienced shooters. As Wayne said though, the BBQ was epic, so it didn't matter.

Dr_Thanatos
09-18-2017, 04:10 PM
After last Friday's benefit clay shoot, I'm willing to try anything. 49/100...SMH.

I've been there, pardner.

One throw you're ahead of it, one throw behind and you did the exact same thing both times.

But that's the "fun" of it, never the same course twice.

Dr_Thanatos
09-18-2017, 04:19 PM
On the money so far with this post and my experience. Like golf, I understand clay shooting, just not good at it, and up till recently, didn't care. What generally is going on is that your focus is on the bird, and your eye is the rear sight. Yep, anathema to a defensive shooter. I have been shooting an Aimpoint on a 12 ga. Defensive gun since basically when the Comp M2 came out. For me, the red dot is the shotgun sight. We can make all sorts of various arguments for low power variables and things like ACOG's on rifles (I had ACOG number 687...early adopter on those too) versus the red dot. Valid argument. On the shotgun and sub gun....no argument, it is an Aimpoint world. So, I am very used to using an Aimpoint on a shotgun. Clays will always be nothing but fun to me. Trap will be the preferred discipline, and sporting clays will be a something different to do, no more no less. Basically, because I hate golf, and like guns.....sporting clays. When a rank newbie can go out and slaughter the first 9 out of ten clays thrown at me, there is something there with the S1 on some types of targets. I also did much better with a really good coach basically explaining the bird flight and how to both read and lead the birds on the more difficult stages. When I had someone who knows what they are doing tell me where I needed to be, the S1 let me put the barrel in that exact spot. Again, a benefit. I also don't think a lot of total rookies to the game can call shots. I know where my barrel was on every shot I missed. I think that is also a valuable thing. I would love to go to Aimpoints academy in Sweden to learn this right.

For me, from a practical standpoint, my M2 "50 state do it all long gun" is set up exactly the same sighting and function wise to my 28" barreled Benelli Sport that is a play gun. I think that is a good thing and unlike most, I think my clay shooting with the same sight that is on my defensive gun is a huge benefit because the clays becomes training doing the same thing sight wise and visually, where normally, clays is completely opposite to what we are teaching in the defensive world. I need to spend more time with both guns, but could even see getting a 28" barrel for my M2 with an S1 for my M2 and really use one gun for everything. Right now, the Benelli Sport doesn't offend anyone at the clay ranges (even with the Aimpoint, the pretty wood seems to make it sort of okay). Alternatively, if I really wanted to go low profile, I could cut a 28" Sport barrel down to 18 or 19 inches (the rib would guide the length) with an S1 and no chokes and have a great hotel room defensive shotgun that would completely fly under the radar.

I will be shooting Trap with the thing on Wed. If everything goes right, so we will see what happens with that.

I definitely want to hear how the Trap goes. With the usual setup on trap guns with those high ribs, the Aimpoint would be a natural evolution.

So, one thing I was thinking about. We all understand why it's hard for defensive shooters to play fast clay games, because we have trained our asses off to look at the front sight, and that's the wrong thing to do with fast clays. I have limited experience with trying to shoot defensive type guns with clay shooters (pretty much my dad). But, even with an N=1, he did not enjoy shooting a pistol at all, and I think a big part of that was that he maintained a hard target focus at all times. I wonder if clay shooters would benefit from using a RDS equipped pistol/carbine, where they could maintain their trained target focus and still be able to operate the gun effectively.

It'd be awesome if there were a couple of guys, say who were both good defensive shooters/teachers, and maybe have been playing with shotgunners recently; who also maybe had an in at a high quality optics company that could test my theory. I mean, they don't _have_ to be in Texas, but that would be ok by me.

Dagga Boy
09-19-2017, 12:28 PM
I definitely want to hear how the Trap goes. With the usual setup on trap guns with those high ribs, the Aimpoint would be a natural evolution.

So, one thing I was thinking about. We all understand why it's hard for defensive shooters to play fast clay games, because we have trained our asses off to look at the front sight, and that's the wrong thing to do with fast clays. I have limited experience with trying to shoot defensive type guns with clay shooters (pretty much my dad). But, even with an N=1, he did not enjoy shooting a pistol at all, and I think a big part of that was that he maintained a hard target focus at all times. I wonder if clay shooters would benefit from using a RDS equipped pistol/carbine, where they could maintain their trained target focus and still be able to operate the gun effectively.

It'd be awesome if there were a couple of guys, say who were both good defensive shooters/teachers, and maybe have been playing with shotgunners recently; who also maybe had an in at a high quality optics company that could test my theory. I mean, they don't _have_ to be in Texas, but that would be ok by me.

Great shotgun sport shooters tend to be problem children in defensive pistol work......hard for them to use a front sight focus (if at all), and trigger slappers of the highest order. Just a totally different game. Had a guy who was helping me with shotgun look at me and say "I know this sounds terrible with your background, but you need to put your finger on the trigger so I know you are ready." Just a totally different world. I want to wade into it, because I am having fun, and if I can master this stuff with a red dot, it will be a wonderful benefit to my real focus on what I do that is not for fun.

Poconnor
10-21-2018, 08:22 PM
It’s been a year. Does anyone have an update on the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) on the M2 or 870?

BobM
08-10-2020, 10:31 PM
I just got a vent rib barrel for my 1187 and plan on having it cut to 19”. My thought is to put an S-1 on the rib. I was wondering if anyone has any more positive or negative experience with the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF).

GJM
08-10-2020, 11:29 PM
I have had the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) on a 14 Benelli since they came out. It is zeroed for Brenneke slugs. It makes the shotgun very handy as the action is unencumbered.

58719

BobM
08-11-2020, 11:09 AM
I have had the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF) on a 14 Benelli since they came out. It is zeroed for Brenneke slugs. It makes the shotgun very handy as the action is unencumbered.

58719

Thanks, I was hoping you’d reply. Have you had any issues with it loosening on the rib or otherwise holding zero?

GJM
08-11-2020, 06:31 PM
Thanks, I was hoping you’d reply. Have you had any issues with it loosening on the rib or otherwise holding zero?

Not so far.

314159
08-30-2020, 06:49 AM
Here's a few data points.

I found some intrepid soul on you tube who mounted a S-1 on a Browning Auto 5 ribbed barrel. The Auto 5 is a long recoil design which means the entire barrel reciprocates very fast aft and then forward. He had done this for turkey hunting and was happy with it. If that didn't rattle the S-1 it's hard to imagine what would. I wonder if it ever came off the rib.
Additionally, people mounted Aimpoints on pistol slides until the MRDSs came along. That might be even harder on the sight. I think the S-1 would be a great choice if you can stand the price point.
I mounted a S-1 on a Valmet double gun barrel set and shot a very informal trap session with it one afternoon. Switching off between that barrel and a conventional barrel set I did slightly better with the regular fiber optic bead setup. One comparative session only though.

BobM
09-22-2021, 11:45 PM
I just got a vent rib barrel for my 1187 and plan on having it cut to 19”. My thought is to put an S-1 on the rib. I was wondering if anyone has any more positive or negative experience with the S1 (https://www.amazon.com/Aimpoint-200369-Micro-Mount-Matte/dp/B073ZM5YQF).

Well, the vendor said that Aimpoint says this optic won’t fit a Remington rib. I’m going to measure my rib this week and compare to the chart in the S1 manual. Some internet searching indicated that the mount wouldn’t fit a Remington rib when the optic was introduced but there was some thinking that the right size mount would be developed eventually. Has anyone mounted an S1 to a Remington rib?

Dov
09-02-2023, 07:52 PM
Well, the vendor said that Aimpoint says this optic won’t fit a Remington rib. I’m going to measure my rib this week and compare to the chart in the S1 manual. Some internet searching indicated that the mount wouldn’t fit a Remington rib when the optic was introduced but there was some thinking that the right size mount would be developed eventually. Has anyone mounted an S1 to a Remington rib?

Does it fit Remington 11-87 Rib? That's what I'm looking to do with it, with low recoil Flight Control for indoors and Trueball low recoil (~1300 fps) or Deep Penetrator (~1350 fps) for outdoors

Any updates on S1 GJM

GJM
09-02-2023, 07:55 PM
Does it fit Remington 11-87 Rib? That's what I'm looking to do with it, with low recoil Flight Control for indoors and Trueball low recoil (~1300 fps) or Deep Penetrator (~1350 fps) for outdoors

Any updates on S1 GJM

No updates beyond it has stayed secure and held zero.

Dov
09-02-2023, 07:56 PM
Aimpoint link says adapters for many types of ribs but no specifics that I see, but its been long day so maybe I'm just missing it https://www.aimpoint.com/products/red-dot-sights/micro-s-1-6-moa-red-dot-reflex-sight-with-integrated-shotgun-rib-mount

Navin Johnson
09-02-2023, 10:36 PM
Does it fit Remington 11-87 Rib? That's what I'm looking to do with it, with low recoil Flight Control for indoors and Trueball low recoil (~1300 fps) or Deep Penetrator (~1350 fps) for outdoors

Any updates on S1 GJM

Here’s the thing

If you call Aimpoint customer service, they’re very helpful

I speak from experience

BobM
09-02-2023, 10:43 PM
Aimpoint link says adapters for many types of ribs but no specifics that I see, but its been long day so maybe I'm just missing it https://www.aimpoint.com/products/red-dot-sights/micro-s-1-6-moa-red-dot-reflex-sight-with-integrated-shotgun-rib-mount

I shelved that project when the vent rib barrel wouldn’t run with low recoil Buck. Now with the Beretta Patrol I don’t think I’m going to keep fooling with the 1187 as a combat shotgun. I did get another one with a wood stock to hunt with.

mrozowjj
09-10-2023, 12:03 AM
At some point I'm going to buy a Beretta 1300 Comp Pro and this post makes me think the S2 vent rib instead of getting a receiver optic mount is maybe an easier option.