An Elmer Keith post/story 40 years in the making.

[Lost River]

This post is about 40 years in the making.

I have a friend Bob (RJM from 24 hour Campfire) who is a bigtime .41 magnum and .38 Super fan, as well as true SME in those areas.

I hope he won't mind me sharing this.




This last week and weekend I was up at my cabin in central Idaho where I was bumming around, shooting my .44s, and rifles, roaming the mountains. Later my wife joined me and we attended the Braun Bothers Reunion annual music festival in Challis ID. It started as a small gathering about 20 years ago, now literally thousands of people show up from all over.

For those not familiar with the Braun Bros reunion, if you like Red Dirt/"Hick Rock" Music, the Braun family literally grew up in the mountains of Idaho and the boys ended up starting a couple of bands that are now well known in the Texas scene as Reckless Kelly and Micky and the Motor Cars. They are all local Braun Boys from Custer County.

Now bands like guys from the old Cross Canadian Ragweed, Randy Rogers, Jason Boland, Turnpike Troubadours, etc show up. Anyways, that is a whole other subject..



Back on topic.

Right prior to the trip a care package arrived from my friend RJM.

RJM graduated a police academy 40 years ago, May 1977.

Instead of attending the graduating ceremony, he went to a function where Elmer Keith was at instead. He met and spoke with Mr. Keith and had him sign a copy of his autobiography, addressed to RJM. A true treasure indeed.

I told RJM that I was very honored and humbled when I opened his care package and found among the items, the Elmer Keith autographed book, signed in 1977, now again in Idaho 40 years later.

Here it is 4 decades later, :

http://i.imgur.com/jlF4zjP.jpg?1


A true treat as far as I am concerned. For those who don't know him here, RJM is a real pro with his .41 and I am sure even Keith himself would have respect for RJM's abilities with his N Frame .41 at long distance.


In fact here he is on the famous Pahsimeroi Valley playing the long range game. This was from a visit a few years back.

http://i.imgur.com/LgOq9mr.jpg

When RJM was out visiting a target board was set up on the ridge behind my cabin at 780 yards and I spotted for him as he walked shots onto the 3x3' boad with his .41 mag with consistency after shooting a bit to get the the windage and elevation. The man can shoot!

http://i.imgur.com/XHoAT9S.jpg

[Lost River]

My hardware for packing for most the week was my 29-2 4" (and sometimes 5") and some speed strips. Sparks leathers 200AW (No shock for Elmer Keith fans), and a trusty Old School 1989 vintage Swiss Army knife:

http://i.imgur.com/wzsTWCx.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/viYshuZ.jpg

[Lost River]

More "Cabin life"


Sitting on the porch reading, while cooking an elk burger with sourdough bread, and hoping for a jackrabbit will come by ..


http://i.imgur.com/e1jSPL0.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/BvAjIQ4.jpg


My old 1950s vintage Marlin Model 39 Mountie .22 on my lap.

[Lost River]

Cabin Neighbors..

http://i.imgur.com/hd7cCoT.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/f4CIPvs.jpg

[Wayne Dobbs]

You sir, are truly blessed in many ways! Great friends, great books, great guns, great food and a wonderful place in this nation to enjoy all of those!

By the way, what are the load specs on that full wadcutter load in the picture?

[Lost River]

:)

It is a 185 grain wadcutter pushed by 10 grains of Unique. Very accurate. Very mild recoil characteristics/easy on the wrists.

I truly do feel blessed to know some great folks too BTW, you are spot on!

[PNWTO]

Man... just awesome... and jealous. I do enjoy your posts and contributions so thank you for these, past and future.

I've said it before but if I had a 29-2 like that I'd happily sell all other handguns. Off to gunbroker I go.

[john c]

:)

It is a 185 grain wadcutter pushed by 10 grains of Unique. Very accurate. Very mild recoil characteristics/easy on the wrists.

I truly do feel blessed to know some great folks too BTW, you are spot on!

Where do you get those wad cutters? Also, what specific wadcutter is it? It seems like 10 gr of unique is a magic load for .44 mag and .45 colt.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lost River]

10 grains of Unique IS Magic!! :)

I use it for 90+% of my shooting. It covers the wadcutters and my midrange load, which is a 240/250 grain cast SWC .44 mag load.

The wadcutters were the last of a few thousand Penn Bullets that I picked up a number of years back. That said I could NEVER recommend the outfit, as I had a nightmare dealing with the man and it took around/over a year to get the order filled and he essentially accused me of trying to pull a fast one on him. It was/is a shame too as the bullets themselves were decent, but not worth the misery. From what I understand my story was not unusual at all.record keeping was a serious issue, and there were issue like I had all too frequently.

I need to source a new/cheap outfit for high quality/inexpensive wadcutters though, as the light recoil characteristics, great velocities, and terminal effects on small/medium game all create a great light load that you can shoot all day with little to no fatigue on your wrists. Fantastic load.

http://i.imgur.com/7InLZin.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oYOrfKn.jpg

[Malamute]

Great topic.

Speaking of Elmer Keith, have you heard the interview recordings of him?

https://www.loc.gov/audio/?fa=contributor%3Akeith%2C+elmer%7Csubject%3Aanecd otes%7Csubject%3Amontana%7Caccess-restricted%3Afalse

[RevolverRob]

Wait...consistently hitting a 3x3' target @ 780 yards with a .41 Magnum?

That is...insane.

[MistWolf]

The family of a friend of mine has a cabin somewhat near that part of Idaho and we have been meeting out there for the last couple of years. During one trip, we met with another of his friends and he took us to see the house where Elmer Keith had lived. It was a memorable event for me, as Elmer is one of my childhood heroes.

I love that part of Idaho

[11B10]

Cabin Neighbors..

http://i.imgur.com/hd7cCoT.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/f4CIPvs.jpg



When I see your username, I know I'm in for a treat - this is no exception. Best of the best. Somehow, "thanks" doesn't seem like enough.

[Greg]

http://arsenalmolds.com/products?product_id=128&limit=99999999999

That mould looks pretty close. Bullet casting is a great winter time activity.

[OlongJohnson]

Tell us about your grips. They look like Herrett's?

[Lost River]

Great topic.

Speaking of Elmer Keith, have you heard the interview recordings of him?

https://www.loc.gov/audio/?fa=contributor%3Akeith%2C+elmer%7Csubject%3Aanecd otes%7Csubject%3Amontana%7Caccess-restricted%3Afalse

I had seen/heard that before but totally forgotten about it. I just saved it to my favorites. THANK YOU A BUNCH!

Malamute always seems to know or find gems!

[Lost River]

Tell us about your grips. They look like Herrett's?

Good Call!

They are in fact from Rod Herrett.

Ropers. :cool:



http://i.imgur.com/YIsXwAa.jpg

[Lost River]

Wait...consistently hitting a 3x3' target @ 780 yards with a .41 Magnum?

That is...insane.

Not every time, but for example when he was using his Freedom Arms and I was on the spotting scope, he was getting 2-3 per cylinder once he got onto target. He had a custom extra tall patridge style front sight with horizontal bars installed, and as it worked out, it was just right for the distance.

I was running my 6.5" M29-2 one day, and I had run out of front sight, and was actually using part of the barrel rib to walk shots on.

One major thing I learned was about ammo. I was seeing MASSIVE point of impact variances. As in 30 + yard variances every now and then with otherwise precisely loaded ammo. RJM correctly deduced that it was lack of heavy crimp. The ammo was not building pressure adequately. At 50 and 100 yards you don't see it. At 300, 400, and further, it makes a HUGE difference. I took his advice, and bought some LEE roll crimp dies, and the next time out, the ammo was very consistently impacting where it should.

Another interesting lesson was shooting double action versus single action. Most would assume shooting single action would produce the most accurate results. That is not always the case. The issue is how you grip the gun is absolutely critical when trying to wring out ultimate accuracy at extended ranges, and any slight variance will see point of impact shifts downrange. Since it is very easy to shoot a DA gun single action while gripping the gun in a variety of manners, you tend to see accuracy suffer.

When you grip a DA revolver and shoot it in the double action mode, you tend to have a very consistent and repeatable grip. That consistency pays off downrange. What I learned to do is to actually grab the gun with my non firing hand and place is in a very deliberate manner into my firing hand in order to achieve the very same consistent grip. This, along with more consistent (heavy roll crimped) ammo resulted in better long range results.

There is a definite learning curve like everything else and it is truly a blast to go do.

I even managed to get one (extremely lucky) hit out of 1 magazine from my Glock 21 .45 acp. I was literally aiming completely over the top of the ridge to do it though.

http://i.imgur.com/xru3D3q.jpg

After getting 1 hit out of the magazine, I knew better, and stopped right there. The odds of repeating that were pretty slim (to never).

[Lost River]

This was from 2-3 years ago when my friend came out and we were shooting across a dry reservoir bed, out to (if I recall right 450ish) yards.

You can see sort of see the targets lined up in one of the pics:

http://i.imgur.com/mu7XTp2.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/GUYmIZA.jpg


And out on the Pahsimeroi (at Horse Heaven Pass) where Elmer Keith often wrote about:

http://i.imgur.com/FHUCfib.jpg

another

http://i.imgur.com/s0Vk8Ba.jpg


A great way to spend a weekend with a buddy!

[Lost River]

And here are some random shots of roaming around central Idaho this last week/weekend:

http://i.imgur.com/vIjtUwK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1QrUDXr.jpg


This is the peak of Mount Borah through the forest fire haze:

It is Idaho's highest at 12, 600 and change.

http://i.imgur.com/PwHyBfu.jpg

[SeriousStudent]

I hope you got some nice trout out of that river. :)

[SamAdams]

Great story & photos ! Your buddy RJM musta had an eagle as his mother. How can he shoot that far with iron sights ?!

[Lost River]

And high up on the side of the mountain is a nice quiet little spot I know...


http://i.imgur.com/bjkWNi3.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/IrKS3S1.jpg


Complete with ancient wood piping, encased with wire.

http://i.imgur.com/ZQcGD65.jpg


The water that comes out of there could be part of a Coors commercial!

http://i.imgur.com/z8x0ZWQ.jpg

[Lost River]

Great story & photos ! Your buddy RJM musta had an eagle as his mother. How can he shoot that far with iron sights ?!

I Know that for me personally in just the last few years the dang front sight has gotten really fuzzy! He has a gift for sure!

No matter what, his true gift is that of a friend. Great guy.

When he came out to visit last time he visited a few other friends along the way, and everyone likes the man. Solid guy, retired peace officer and excellent source of info on all manner of shooting subjects.

[Lost River]

I hope you got some nice trout out of that river. :)

I wish I did! I didn't even have any gear with me. Everything was back at the cabin. :(

[Robinson]

Great thread.

[Malamute]

I Know that for me personally in just the last few years the dang front sight has gotten really fuzzy! He has a gift for sure!

No matter what, his true gift is that of a friend. Great guy.

When he came out to visit last time he visited a few other friends along the way, and everyone likes the man. Solid guy, retired peace officer and excellent source of info on all manner of shooting subjects.

Have you tried one of the Merit devices that go on your shooting glasses?

[11B10]

Not every time, but for example when he was using his Freedom Arms and I was on the spotting scope, he was getting 2-3 per cylinder once he got onto target. He had a custom extra tall patridge style front sight with horizontal bars installed, and as it worked out, it was just right for the distance.

I was running my 6.5" M29-2 one day, and I had run out of front sight, and was actually using part of the barrel rib to walk shots on.

One major thing I learned was about ammo. I was seeing MASSIVE point of impact variances. As in 30 + yard variances every now and then with otherwise precisely loaded ammo. RJM correctly deduced that it was lack of heavy crimp. The ammo was not building pressure adequately. At 50 and 100 yards you don't see it. At 300, 400, and further, it makes a HUGE difference. I took his advice, and bought some LEE roll crimp dies, and the next time out, the ammo was very consistently impacting where it should.

Another interesting lesson was shooting double action versus single action. Most would assume shooting single action would produce the most accurate results. That is not always the case. The issue is how you grip the gun is absolutely critical when trying to wring out ultimate accuracy at extended ranges, and any slight variance will see point of impact shifts downrange. Since it is very easy to shoot a DA gun single action while gripping the gun in a variety of manners, you tend to see accuracy suffer.

When you grip a DA revolver and shoot it in the double action mode, you tend to have a very consistent and repeatable grip. That consistency pays off downrange. What I learned to do is to actually grab the gun with my non firing hand and place is in a very deliberate manner into my firing hand in order to achieve the very same consistent grip. This, along with more consistent (heavy roll crimped) ammo resulted in better long range results.

There is a definite learning curve like everything else and it is truly a blast to go do.

I even managed to get one (extremely lucky) hit out of 1 magazine from my Glock 21 .45 acp. I was literally aiming completely over the top of the ridge to do it though.

http://i.imgur.com/xru3D3q.jpg

After getting 1 hit out of the magazine, I knew better, and stopped right there. The odds of repeating that were pretty slim (to never).




When I "look over your shoulder," I'm in awe of the distance you guys are shooting - and with handguns! Because I've actually seen places like that in person, I know that the pictures don't do it justice. When you're there, it's even crazier. I'm wearing out the "LIKE" button - keep it up!

[11B10]

And here are some random shots of roaming around central Idaho this last week/weekend:

http://i.imgur.com/vIjtUwK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1QrUDXr.jpg


This is the peak of Mount Borah through the forest fire haze:

It is Idaho's highest at 12, 600 and change.

http://i.imgur.com/PwHyBfu.jpg





What peak is in the last photo?

[willie]

A most interesting post with great pictures. Elmer had an article in the first Gun Digest that I bought in 1957. He shaped my thinking on handgun shooting.

[Wayne Dobbs]

So I think I'll get Lost River to adopt me. I'll take a decent rifle, some good revolvers, binos and a 5-weight fly rod. Should be set!

[rauchman]

Awesome thread. Lost River, always always look forward to your posts! As usuall......outstanding!

[Lost River]

http://arsenalmolds.com/products?product_id=128&limit=99999999999

That mould looks pretty close. Bullet casting is a great winter time activity.

I really need to consider casting my own one of these days. That looks like a very reasonable option there. Thanks for the link Amigo!

[Totem Polar]

As always, LR, your pics provide an eloquent look at a lovely and increasingly rare lifestyle. Thanks again for that.

Must have been a long 780 yards humping that doorbreaching ram... ;)

[richiecotite]

Is your RJM the same one that posts over on castboolits? If so, your right on the money about his knowledge of 41 loading/loads


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[11B10]

LR, I put on my fine print glasses and now know what peak that is. Give the old fart a medal.

[Lost River]

Have you tried one of the Merit devices that go on your shooting glasses?

I have not, but may in the future. I have been playing with some dollar store cheaters lately with a modicum of success. Solid tip though (as usual Malamute!) and I will bear it in mind.

[Lost River]

So I think I'll get Lost River to adopt me. I'll take a decent rifle, some good revolvers, binos and a 5-weight fly rod. Should be set!

You would easily fit right in in central ID, considering the crowd you associate with. Men cut from the same cloth. Laid back, yet solid to the core.

[Lost River]

As always, LR, your pics provide an eloquent look at a lovely and increasingly rare lifestyle. Thanks again for that.

Must have been a long 780 yards humping that doorbreaching ram... ;)

My friend Bob aka RJM did it!

[Lost River]

Is your RJM the same one that posts over on castboolits? If so, your right on the money about his knowledge of 41 loading/loads


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One and the same. It is funny, he is one of those guys that most folks have never heard of, yet he has literally dozens of people who seek his advice, simply due to word of mouth, mostly about .38 Supers and .41 mags. He also has some of the coolest old Colt .38 Supers I have seen, and carried them for years as a peace officer. I need to get him over here and have him join.

[Shotgun]

So I think I'll get Lost River to adopt me. I'll take a decent rifle, some good revolvers, binos and a 5-weight fly rod. Should be set!

If you included a huntin dog and a shotgun in that, it sounds pretty much like a perfect life.

[Malamute]

I have not, but may in the future. I have been playing with some dollar store cheaters lately with a modicum of success. Solid tip though (as usual Malamute!) and I will bear it in mind.

Theyre a bit spendy for no bigger than they are, but really do work. I have one I can send you to try out. Send me an address, I dont think I still have yours handy.

[Wayne Dobbs]

One and the same. It is funny, he is one of those guys that most folks have never heard of, yet he has literally dozens of people who seek his advice, simply due to word of mouth, mostly about .38 Supers and .41 mags. He also has some of the coolest old Colt .38 Supers I have seen, and carried them for years as a peace officer. I need to get him over here and have him join.

Please do get him over here. I enjoy his stuff on Cast Boolits and while I haven't started casting, I love that board.

[jc000]

http://i.imgur.com/vIjtUwK.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/1QrUDXr.jpg

Wish I could be wading in that stream right now… just gorgeous.

[Lost River]

So on the day of the eclipse we had some friends visit, and had a great time. More on that after a bit. The one thing I wanted to talk about was an interesting phenomenon was the winds. In the mountains you get updrafts in the mornings and downdrafts in the evenings. On the day of the eclipse, the winds were goofy, blowing every direction. It is windy country anyways, but it was very odd that day.

Anyways, on the day of the eclipse, a friend who had not seen any real long range shooting with a handgun wanted to see what I was talking about, so I broke out a 5" .44 and settled down to shoot at the 780 yard target on the hill. The results were abysmal. There was just enough wind at the cabin and then at the mid point, that with my daughter on the spotting scope calling the impacts, using the clock system, it sounded like this: "7 oclock 50 yards, 11 oclock 60 yards, 1 oclock 30 yards", it was terrible to say the least. After about 8 rounds or so, I simply gave up. It was not worth wasting ammo. Some days are good for it. That day it was not going to happen, and any round that might have struck the target would have been simply luck.