Recommended follow-up for Glock 19 Gen4 firing pin failure

[LeeC]

Well, the honeymoon is over. I pulled the trigger on FAST drill shot # 5 today, but got no bang. This happened only once before, several thousand rounds ago, on a bad primer. But after waiting 30 seconds, I ejected the round and found the primer had not been struck. So I moved the table into the box and field stripped to inspect the slide. The firing pin end was not visible, and depressing the firing pin safety and manually working the pin would not free it up. So, I switched out to my AA kit and shot 22's for the rest of the hour.

I've taken down the slide, and didn't find the level of gunk I was expecting to explain the firing pin failure. This is my first Glock and I have not tracked the number of rounds run through it. Best guess is that it has been fired less than 10,000 times. Think I'll be putting the bullet-odometer on in the future.

I've cleaned all the slide parts thoroughly with 99% isopropyl alcohol and thoroughly dried with patches and Q-tips. Read some of the posts here about maintenance schedules for Glocks, including replacing all slide springs together instead of piecemeal. This is my EDC and while I realize that no machine is infallible, knowing it in theory and experiencing it in practice have different impacts. Moving forward, I have a new level of interest in carrying a backup gun every day, and being more conscious of maintenance schedules. It is fun to joke about not cleaning your gun, but reality is that if I was in a gunfight today and this happened, I might not be writing about it, as I was not carrying a BUG. Odds are that since I'm practicing a whole lot more than fighting, the next failure will also be during practice, but it still makes me pause for reflection.

In hindsight, I'm now wondering if I should have tried dry firing a few times to see if that would free up the firing pin.

Question 1: What is recommended field tactical response for this kind of failure?

Question 2: What is recommended follow-up for putting this gun back into EDC service?

[LOKNLOD]

I've taken down the slide, and didn't find the level of gunk I was expecting to explain the firing pin failure.
.......
I've cleaned all the slide parts thoroughly with 99% isopropyl alcohol and thoroughly dried with patches and Q-tips.


So you didn't find any gunk or debris to blame for seizing it up, and I assume it moves and dry fires now after cleaning? I'm not clear on this point: did you replace the spring? I don't think you did, but if so did you check for any shortening or deformation from the new spring?



Question 1: What is recommended field tactical response for this kind of failure?


If you got a click-no-bang during an urgent lead dispersion event, I'd suspect you'd tap-rack-bang just like you would if it had been a hard primer or empty chamber due to unseated magazine. If it continued to not fire (tap-rack-click-ohshit), then you'd be doing some mixture of seeking cover, transitioning to a backup, running like your head is on fire, etc. This is where the answer to your question about whether a few more dry fires would have dislodged it would be nice to know.



Question 2: What is recommended follow-up for putting this gun back into EDC service?


Personally after cleaning, I'd continue with the spring replacement, and put a few hundred rounds down range to verify function. I might go ahead and replace the striker and parts it's interacting with as well, given that the cost is not exorbitant to do so.


*For what it's worth, I'd point out that I am neither a Glock armorer nor a tactics expert so take my questions/suggestion for what they're worth.

[LeeC]

So you didn't find any gunk or debris to blame for seizing it up, and I assume it moves and dry fires now after cleaning? I'm not clear on this point: did you replace the spring? I don't think you did, but if so did you check for any shortening or deformation from the new spring?

There was some gunk but it didn't seem to be enough that it should cause the striker not to be able to move.

I don't have any replacement parts on hand, so I have reassembled the cleaned stock parts and dry fire seems OK. I have Laserlyte LT-9 trainer and the firing pin is making contact with the switch.

There are some pricy titanium parts referenced here (http://www.cpwsa.com/Glock%20Parts.htm), including a titanium striker that will supposedly improve your accuracy, although I can't imagine how. Guess I'll do some further research on maintenance parts. I see this forum has a thread on Glock maintenance (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?975-Glock-Maintenance)that covers some of the issues.

[JV_]

There are some pricy titanium parts referenced here (http://www.cpwsa.com/Glock%20Parts.htm), including a titanium striker that will supposedly improve your accuracy

Stick with Glock parts.

Can you post a picture of your striker tip?

[LeeC]

Stick with Glock parts.

Can you post a picture of your striker tip?


I could, but after I cleaned it all up, it looks good as new. I just got back from the range. Ran 300 rounds with no problems, so gunk must have been the root cause. When I first got the gun, before I watched an instructional video on how to clean it, I was probably not careful enough with avoiding getting CLP into the striker channel. But now I know better.

I do have a new problem now though. About half the time that I smacked a fresh, topped off mag into the gun, the slide released automatically. But I didn't do anything with the slide stop lever. I just tried reproducing the problem here at home. Can't make it release with an empty mag, but if I smack a loaded mag in, the slide automatically releases and chambers a round. But the slide did not once fail to lock back on an empty mag at the range.

Did some more tests and while I was able to reproduce the problem several times, now it has stopped. I can't get the slide to automatically release when I smack a mag into the gun. Thought maybe the process that sets the slide release lever on ejection of the last casing was leaving the slide stop lever only partially set, but since I can't reproduce the problem now, I don't know what was going on. Think it is time to swap out springs and start counting rounds fired better. But at least I know the gun fires now.

[JV_]

About half the time that I smacked a fresh, topped off mag into the gun, the slide released automaticallyMany pistols exhibit this behavior, including the M&P, but I'm not able to do this with my Glock.

I was able to do this with my M&P; it was most consistent if I put most of the insertion force on the back of the base plate.

[LittleLebowski]

Don't worry about "auto forwarding" when inserting a fresh mag and for Buddha's sake, do NOT rely upon it.

[Chuck Haggard]

NO NO NO NO NO titanium strikers/firing pins.

Just NO!

[LeeC]

Don't worry about "auto forwarding" when inserting a fresh mag and for Buddha's sake, do NOT rely upon it.

:D Funny that I was thinking that "auto forwarding" is a feature that makes perfect sense, but I haven't spent enough time learning about how semi-autos operate to know why it isn't engineered into the gun. I was surprised to have it happen to me for the first time, and several times thereafter, and it did throw off my drill rhythm because I wasn't expecting it. I'm fine with the chore of "slingshoting" the slide manually so that I don't depend on the fine muscle control that won't be around in a fight, but wasn't ready for the auto-forwarding.

[LittleLebowski]

I wouldn't worry about all of a sudden losing the ability to remember your training and move your thumb less than an inch, Lee.

[LeeC]

I wouldn't worry about all of a sudden losing the ability to remember your training and move your thumb less than an inch, Lee.

I've read too many gun books lately and am too tired to hunt down the reference, but something I read recently quoted a believable study/history/experience that when the SHTF, the fingers finding the slide stop release sometimes no-workie. Hell, my fingers don't work right half the time just sitting at my bench trying to put little sight screws into tiny socket wrenches. Seems believable to me, and I'm not working on a FAST coin just yet anyway, so I can spare the few extra subseconds.

Also, I watched a disturbing video (link somewhere on this forum) of some middle-eastern guy in a store get shot to death while trying to chamber a round from his Israeli-carry pistol. Seems like he got stuck on getting the slide to release while the BG was filling him with lead.

But I'm getting a lot of good, stress-filled training at NRA Range with folks in the next lane over doing things like trying to perform a cardioectomy by using their chest as a muzzle vise for clearing a stovepipe. :eek: In spite of all that was going on (whack-o's next door, lane face/edge controller malfunctioning, slide "auto-forwarding", wife melting down) I was able to get my 6-round-from-concealment "Bill Drill" time under three seconds which was a milestone for me and my bifocals.

[ToddG]

but something I read recently quoted a believable study/history/experience that when the SHTF, the fingers finding the slide stop release sometimes no-workie.

If your thumb cannot work the slide release, how did it work the mag release? How is your index finger pulling the trigger with adequate precision to get hits at speed? The study/history/experience referenced is a bunch of horse manure.

[LeeC]

If your thumb cannot work the slide release, how did it work the mag release? How is your index finger pulling the trigger with adequate precision to get hits at speed? The study/history/experience referenced is a bunch of horse manure.

I'll dig up the reference, but you do make a good point that my tired brain cannot counter tonight. And I'm finding out that there is almost as much compost passing as "information" in the gun industry as there is in mine ("information technology").

[LittleLebowski]

Also, I watched a disturbing video (link somewhere on this forum) of some middle-eastern guy in a store get shot to death while trying to chamber a round from his Israeli-carry pistol. Seems like he got stuck on getting the slide to release while the BG was filling him with lead.


My takeaway from that is "don't carry Israeli style."

I've had formal pistol training from Todd (civilian) and Larry Vickers (Delta Force). Both recommend the slide release if possible.

[ToddG]

I've had formal pistol training from Todd (civilian) and Larry Vickers (Delta Force).

Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I bet I've played far more Rainbow Six than Larry ever has, and anyone who's read Clancy knows that Rainbow Six > Delta so...

:D

[Ga Shooter]

Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I bet I've played far more Rainbow Six than Larry ever has, and anyone who's read Clancy knows that Rainbow Six > Delta so...

:D

Funny story but many, many moons ago after reading Rainbow Six I came across a 96fs and just had to buy it because well...... Rainbow Six.:)

[Mr_White]

If your thumb cannot work the slide release, how did it work the mag release? How is your index finger pulling the trigger with adequate precision to get hits at speed?


you do make a good point that my tired brain cannot counter tonight.

I don't think you are going to be able to counter it after resting either. It's a highly logical argument.

The argument Todd expresses above is precisely what convinced me to try the slide stop lever in the first place. I have not looked back.

Seriously, I say this as a long time student of schools that advocate overhanding the slide. I trained that way for most of the time I've shot pistols, but I've gone another way now.

The argument for overhanding the slide is sometimes based on the false dichotomy of: under stress, you will always fail at operating the slide stop lever, and you will always succeed at overhanding the slide.

If I am honest with my memories of years of training to overhand the slide, there are plenty of times my hand slipped off and had to regrip to do it again. That turns an already slow technique into an even slower one. When you screw up and don't press the slide stop lever, it is a much smaller motion to remedially press it again.

My slidelock reload using the slide stop lever, even when I screw it up BIG TIME (miss initial clearing of the concealment garment, miss initial insertion of the magazine, and miss initially hitting the slide stop lever) is about on par with most of my clean repetitions of slidelock reload overhanding the slide. It makes that much time difference for me.

[LeeC]

OK, Todd so I've experienced a "synthetic memory" where I mashed up some details into my own version of what I remember reading. "Surgical Speed Shooting" by Andy Stanford talks about using a different method for checking to see if your round is chambered than what you do to chamber a round. For example if you check the chamber overhand, rack the slide slingshot. Then I think I read one of many posts (http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-583341.html) discussing the point, and later my background mental processes brewed up some belief that I read it in a book.

So, thank you Todd for calling BS on BS. That law school training is paying off! :cool:

Now, how about topping off your magazines, or not, to avoid spring failure? ;) Is there a thread here on that? I sent an email to a physicist friend who also shoots a pistol, but haven't heard back from him. This article (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_163_27/ai_99130369/) seems convincing, but I would still like to hear from a scientist that is known and reputable. I suspect the truth is somewhere in the mix, and that's what keeps concerns like Snopes (http://www.snopes.com/)and Mythbusters (http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/mythbusters/)going.

And while I'm falling on my sword, I'll own up to changing the subject....:o

Now we don't have to attempt to clear this up in between gunshots at the range tomorrow. :eek:

[ToddG]

I always top off my carry mag. I don't usually top off when practicing.