Blindsided by S&W 43C

[Eastex]

I was out shooting with a friend the other day when he brings out the 43C. Other than reading about the Claude Werners of this world and a few other posts where folks talked about them being a option for people with limited hand strength I'd never really paid much attention to them. This thing was more fun than a little bit. I can't get over the sights on it, why can't S&W put that Big Dot on all their J Frames??? I enjoyed it so much I didn't even notice the trigger pull being stiffer than my 642. Maybe it's just the .22 that brings out the kid in me but I really enjoyed that revolver. I can't think of a single reason I "need" one but I sure would like one. I went on Gunbroker and it looks like they're making new ones. Maybe if it had that damn lock in the side I'd be able to fight this urge but they don't have the lock so there goes that excuse not to buy.


Hell bent on being intentionally anachronistic

[JHC]

I think the 43C and 351 .22 mag both seem pretty cool.

[idahojess]

How much stiffer is the trigger pull weight than the 642? I always think a .22 revolver would be great for my mom, who is almost 70, but I think the trigger pull might be a little tough (arthritis), particularly if they are stiffer than a standard j-frame. I think my j-frame is close to 11 pounds on the scale.

[Eastex]

Maybe someone can give a actual number. I've been looking up things about it since shooting it and I want to say around 14 pounds give or take a few. I've also read where Werner put lighter springs in his without hurting the ignition with certain varieties of .22.


Hell bent on being intentionally anachronistic

[SeriousStudent]

I have hand one for several years and love it. It does have a heavier trigger pull. I'll see if I can get a weight on mine and post it.

It's a great trainer combined with CTC laser grips. But you do want to use a snap cap to avoid damage to the firing pin.

[Willard]

But you do want to use a snap cap to avoid damage to the firing pin.

In some cases people have also damaged the cylinder face as well. I don't know if this is still the case with more modern frame mounted firing pins, but snap caps are a must as previously stated.

[SeriousStudent]

Yes, they make some plastic ones, but this revolver chews them up pretty fast. I bought a bagful of the A-Zoom aluminum ones in the bargain cave at Cabela's a while back, and they seem to work better.

I dug out the trigger gauge. Mine clocks in at 12.4 pounds, but it's honestly very smooth. I polished the innards with a set of 2000-grit and 8000-grit Japanese waterstones. And that is all I did, was polish.

I can't remember if it was Scott or Randy at Apex Tactical, but they told me that their J frame trigger kit was not designed to work with the 43c.

Hope that helps.

ETA: I posted while Tom was typing.

Dang, that is pretty sweet! I just ordered a bag, thanks for the link.

[Wheeler]

Wollf makes a reduced weight main spring, the previous owner of mine had one installed. I've yet to have any failures to ignite with mine related to the lighter main spring.

The firing pin on the 43c and the 351c strikes the lower portion of the rim rather than the upper portion of the rim like every other S&W rimfire revolver. That's why the Apex kits won't work. It's most likely why they don't come with internal locks either.

[Malamute]

I polished the innards with a set of 2000-grit and 8000-grit Japanese waterstones. And that is all I did, was polish.



Ive been using wet-or-dry sandpaper, 320, then 400, then 600, on a piece of glass. You can go finer, 1000 or 1200 I believe, but 600 grit is a mirror polish, making very sharp image reflections, a finer polish than any factory finish Ive seen. The idea is 320 to clean up factory machine marks (or file marks if youve been working on something, like flat topping a Ruger SA), the 400 to remove the 320 marks, and 600 to remove the 400 marks. Stop well before you think you should, you dont have to take off a lot of metal unless simply going for looks, and the dimensions arent that critical. A small nail, head and tip removed for a uniform diameter, and a small piece of the wet-or dry taped to it (tape one edge, wind around the nail and tape), and chucked in a drill (slow speed) can polish inside the hammer and trigger pin holes. The small triangular ceramic file stones from Brownells also cleans up many spots, and is perfect for cleaning up trigger and hammer edges and corners where they are often sharp. Clean it with warm tap water and dish soap, keeps them looking new. They turn black with metal particles quickly.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Is there really such a thing as a .22LR snap cap? A-Zoom calls theirs "Action Proving Rounds" and says they aren't for dry fire:

18752



I use yellow drywall anchors (http://amzn.to/2vqdVHe).

18753

Claude Werner (AKA THE TACTICAL PROFESSOR) recommends the dry wall anchors, too. You're in good company Tom!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SeriousStudent]

Ive been using wet-or-dry sandpaper, 320, then 400, then 600, on a piece of glass. You can go finer, 1000 or 1200 I believe, but 600 grit is a mirror polish, making very sharp image reflections, a finer polish than any factory finish Ive seen. The idea is 320 to clean up factory machine marks (or file marks if youve been working on something, like flat topping a Ruger SA), the 400 to remove the 320 marks, and 600 to remove the 400 marks. Stop well before you think you should, you dont have to take off a lot of metal unless simply going for looks, and the dimensions arent that critical. A small nail, head and tip removed for a uniform diameter, and a small piece of the wet-or dry taped to it (tape one edge, wind around the nail and tape), and chucked in a drill (slow speed) can polish inside the hammer and trigger pin holes. The small triangular ceramic file stones from Brownells also cleans up many spots, and is perfect for cleaning up trigger and hammer edges and corners where they are often sharp. Clean it with warm tap water and dish soap, keeps them looking new. They turn black with metal particles quickly.

Very cool, I have copied that down.

I used the high-digit waterstones because I like to remove metal slooooowly. Plus, they were sitting on my work bench and I'm a lazy bastige.

Thanks again for the techniques, I may be using them on another wheelgun that will likely follow me home later this month.

[UNK]

Is there really such a thing as a .22LR snap cap? A-Zoom calls theirs "Action Proving Rounds" and says they aren't for dry fire:

18752



I use yellow drywall anchors (http://amzn.to/2vqdVHe).

18753

For rifle and pistol .22 dry fire I use this. Maybe they could be cut to work with revolver? http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Chamber-Plugs__LGI.aspx

18779

[Malamute]

Very cool, I have copied that down.

I used the high-digit waterstones because I like to remove metal slooooowly. Plus, they were sitting on my work bench and I'm a lazy bastige.

Thanks again for the techniques, I may be using them on another wheelgun that will likely follow me home later this month.

I think youll like it. I had a glass shop cut me a piece of 1/4" glass about 6x8 inch, they sand the edges to make them safe. Be sure they understand it isnt for a window or they may not sand it at all. i asked for minimal sanding, just enough to make it safe to handle. I told them it was for polishing small gun parts and I wanted to be able to get into a corner as tight as I could. They did a fair job. It may be worth asking to leave one side nearly unsanded (JUST barely enough to be safe), and do the other 3 a bit more for handling comfort. It makes a perfectly flat surface to work parts on. Ive noticed my stones wear unevenly over time, the glass and wet-or-dry ended up working very well. I cut pieces of the paper in sizes adequate for what I'm working on.

If you want to go slow, use finer grade paper and keep checking it. You need to keep changing the area you work on or get a fresh piece of paper pretty often. A couple sheets of each goes a long ways though. If you cut it up into smaller pieces, write on the back of each piece what the grade is. Its easy to lose track.

Besides a nail, you can also use the shank of various size drill bits, chucked in the drill backwards for polishing holes. Ive been doing that for an AR rifle barrel extension opened up for M4 upper to match the ramps.

[SeriousStudent]

Sweet, there is a glass shop on my way home from work. I've printed your post and will ask them to cut me one.

Thanks again!

[Malamute]

Glad its of use. Little tricks like that arent much good kept to oneself. Let us know how it works out for you. The perfectly flat surface is nice when working on most gun parts. Its also interesting starting to polish things like Ruger hammers, and realizing they arent all that flat when you start.

Smiths can benefit from a slick up to some degree (without going crazy), Rugers often show large improvements in feel with an action slick up. If doing any Ruger revolvers, take the mainspring assembly apart and deburr and polish the 4 sides and corners of the mainspring strut. I think they are die punched out and barely, if at all, deburred.

[SeriousStudent]

Interesting. I've only got two Ruger revolvers - a Single Six .22 and a blued 3" GP-100 that used to belong to Dagga Boy and before that Chuck Haggard. It's been smoothed out nicely.

I wish there were more of the old used Model 10's that you used to be able to snag for less than $200, that would be an idea test bed to learn on. Now they are close to $350, and that's a case of carbine chow. :(

[OlongJohnson]

Is there really such a thing as a .22LR snap cap? A-Zoom calls theirs "Action Proving Rounds" and says they aren't for dry fire:

I use yellow drywall anchors (http://amzn.to/2vqdVHe).

18753

Yellow drywall anchors are universal in the rimfire world. But they don't feed very well in semis.

Tipton Snap Caps 22 LR (https://www.amazon.com/Tipton-Snap-Caps-22-Per/dp/B0048KFHI8/)

22lr Plastic Safety Snap Caps/24 Pachmayr 3200 (https://www.amazon.com/22lr-Plastic-Safety-Snap-Pachmayr/dp/B0018DYGSA/)

They wear out pretty quickly, though. This is one reason I have the habit of being on mailing lists and stopping in the local Academy when I'm driving by. Snap caps are one of the things that sometimes are discounted massively.


Glad its of use. Little tricks like that arent much good kept to oneself. Let us know how it works out for you. The perfectly flat surface is nice when working on most gun parts. Its also interesting starting to polish things like Ruger hammers, and realizing they arent all that flat when you start.

Smiths can benefit from a slick up to some degree (without going crazy), Rugers often show large improvements in feel with an action slick up. If doing any Ruger revolvers, take the mainspring assembly apart and deburr and polish the 4 sides and corners of the mainspring strut. I think they are die punched out and barely, if at all, deburred.

Agree with the Ruger advice. Mine came out surprisingly nice.

I like to use the small-diameter stones. They are dedicated for working on guns, so they don't get worn out doing other stuff. I use baby oil because it's cheap and doesn't hurt anything when it gets on my skin. Dispensed from a needle tip bottle (https://www.amazon.com/NEEDLE-DROPPER-BOTTLES-E-Liquids-Liquids/dp/B00H6OY6SU/). I picked up most of the stones from Enco before they were absorbed by MSC Direct, when they would have significant discounts site-wide and free shipping with no minimum.

Midway sells a set (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/566859/norton-hard-arkansas-sharpening-stone-pack-of-4-ultra-fine) that is almost identical to the one Brownell's sells (http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/stones/gunsmith-s-premium-arkansas-stone-file-set-prod625.aspx), for about half the price. It's rare that I buy anything from Brownell's, as they are usually the most expensive place to buy anything they sell.

You can get that set, plus the same thing in a coarser grit that will knock down the big lumps and rough edges a little faster, from Zoro tools (https://www.zoro.com/norton-file-set-61463686840/i/G0832237/). Good vendor, I use them a lot. They also sell through ebay. They often have hardware that's difficult to find anywhere else, and if you get on their mailing list, they sometimes have substantial site-wide discounts.

[NEPAKevin]

Late shooting buddy of mine used to keep heavy rubber bands in his shooting box and had some creative ways of fitting them to use for dry firing rim fire guns.

[Eastex]

I like the old school,stocks on there. After shooting and seeing how light the recoil was it started me wondering what the lightest set of stocks are that fit on a J frame?


"Hell bent on being intentionally anachronistic"

[Gun Mutt]

My wife's around-the-house gun, she dubbed it Little Boy Blue, which of course, makes me respond, You're my boy, Blue!

S&W 351c holding 7rds of .22mag. Heavy trigger, but a lovely shooter:

19209

[Bobcat]

My wife's around-the-house gun, she dubbed it Little Boy Blue, which of course, makes me respond, You're my boy, Blue!

S&W 351c holding 7rds of .22mag. Heavy trigger, but a lovely shooter:

19209

And if 7 rounds of 22 magnum don't stop an attacker, have them stare at the pattern on those grips! Very cool.

[Up1911Fan]

My wife's around-the-house gun, she dubbed it Little Boy Blue, which of course, makes me respond, You're my boy, Blue!

S&W 351c holding 7rds of .22mag. Heavy trigger, but a lovely shooter:

19209

Nice. And bonus points for the gratuitous Old School reference.

[SJC3081]

I bought a 43c from GJM about 5 years ago,he was very kind and gave me a great deal. Its nice hiting steel at 50 yards
as fast as i could pull the trigger. If i could shoot my other guns as well i would be world champoin shooter.
In my dreams

[mmc45414]

Not sure I realized these got to be so lightweight by the aluminum cylinder, 11.5oz without the expense of Scandium.
19233
And of course, now I want something I really didn't even know existed a few minutes ago...

[mtnbkr]

And of course, now I want something I really didn't even know existed a few minutes ago...

I've known about them, but have managed to resist so far. Still, I want one as a pocket plinker, something I can toss in a pack with a ziplock baggie of Aguila CB rounds for informal plinking while woods bumming or camping. Of, if it's accurate enough (in my hands...), it would be a neat squirrel harvester when I'm out deer/bear hunting and not seeing anything else.

I can come up with all sorts of justifications... :)

Chris

[Wheeler]

I've known about them, but have managed to resist so far. Still, I want one as a pocket plinker, something I can toss in a pack with a ziplock baggie of Aguila CB rounds for informal plinking while woods bumming or camping. Of, if it's accurate enough (in my hands...), it would be a neat squirrel harvester when I'm out deer/bear hunting and not seeing anything else.

I can come up with all sorts of justifications... :)

Chris

That big, fat XS Dot masquerading as a front sight might make it a little difficult to pot tree rats at typical tree rat ranges.

[jandbj]

That big, fat XS Dot masquerading as a front sight might make it a little difficult to pot tree rats at typical tree rat ranges.

Anyone ever try one of the other pin in J frame front sights that S&W uses on the 340/360, etc guns?
20962

Look what I found at Numrich...
https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1646410

��

[jandbj]

21196
Did the Wolff rimfire spring kit. 9lb hammer, 14 lb rebound. Range test tomorrow.

[UNK]

21196
Did the Wolff rimfire spring kit. 9lb hammer, 14 lb rebound. Range test tomorrow.

be interested in a range report poa/poi

[UNK]

For rifle and pistol .22 dry fire I use this. Maybe they could be cut to work with revolver? http://www.larrysguns.com/Products/Chamber-Plugs__LGI.aspx

18779

Just want to reiterate. These are the best .22 snap caps out there.

[jandbj]

Shot it today. It despised the craptastic Winchester 555 bulk pack! Dirty, smoky, and stuck in the chambers.

Switched to CCI and all was sweetness and light. No misfires, smooth ejection, decent trigger. Using the XS dot past about 25 meters was challenging for me. With CCI SV, it hit right to the center of the dot at 25 meters. Kept most on a 5" plate. The nut behind the trigger was the biggest liability. Will try some other loads in the near future. Have some federal bulk, minimags, Aguila SV, AE suppressor, and some old school hyper velocity quik shock rounds too.

I think I'm really gonna like this little critter.

[Eastex]

I’ve been slowly stacking a few bucks back thinking by the time Colt got around to making a alloy version of the new Cobra with a shrouded hammer that I’d be waiting with cash in hand. Now I look at that little
stack of cash and all
I see is a 43C.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Willard]

I’ve been slowly stacking a few bucks back thinking by the time Colt got around to making a alloy version of the new Cobra with a shrouded hammer that I’d be waiting with cash in hand. Now I look at that little
stack of cash and all
I see is a 43C.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was also excited about the new Cobra initially. That changed after reading that it may be MIM'd enough to include the barrel & Colt might not actually manufacture (just assemble) the gun. Combine that with an interview with management that, if the foregoing is accurate, was full of weasel wording and word parsing, I'd also take a pass & get the 43C or save my stack/spend elsewhere.

[jandbj]

Shot it today. It despised the craptastic Winchester 555 bulk pack! Dirty, smoky, and stuck in the chambers.

Switched to CCI and all was sweetness and light. No misfires, smooth ejection, decent trigger. Using the XS dot past about 25 meters was challenging for me. With CCI SV, it hit right to the center of the dot at 25 meters. Kept most on a 5" plate. The nut behind the trigger was the biggest liability. Will try some other loads in the near future. Have some federal bulk, minimags, Aguila SV, AE suppressor, and some old school hyper velocity quik shock rounds too.

I think I'm really gonna like this little critter.
Perhaps a bridge too far here... but it was on the bench and I had nothing better to do... just put a spare factory 8.5lb hammer spring from a 442 in it. Will range test this week to see if this lighter and smooth trigger action will reliably detonate primers. Put my 9lb spring in a buddy's 351c to try out before he buys the Wolff kit.

[SeriousStudent]

Shot it today. It despised the craptastic Winchester 555 bulk pack! Dirty, smoky, and stuck in the chambers.

Switched to CCI and all was sweetness and light. No misfires, smooth ejection, decent trigger. Using the XS dot past about 25 meters was challenging for me. With CCI SV, it hit right to the center of the dot at 25 meters. Kept most on a 5" plate. The nut behind the trigger was the biggest liability. Will try some other loads in the near future. Have some federal bulk, minimags, Aguila SV, AE suppressor, and some old school hyper velocity quik shock rounds too.

I think I'm really gonna like this little critter.

I have had very good results with the Federal Automatch in mine. You may want to try some if it's handy.

[jandbj]

I have had very good results with the Federal Automatch in mine. You may want to try some if it's handy.
Thanks for the heads up!

I believe a have a few of the 325 round bulk boxes of those. Under 4¢/round at my local wallyworld too!

Found an old 50 round box of CCI SGB's in the cabinet too.

[SeriousStudent]

Glad to be of assistance.

[jandbj]

As I suspected, using the factory 442 spring was a bridge too far. Worked for most ammo (95ish%) in rapid fire. About 15% failures to fire on first whack in slow fire with all ammo tried. Will go back to the 9lb Wolff hammer spring.

Ran Federal Auto match, old Federal hi-speed, Minimags, & SGB's.

All extracted fine.

[jandbj]

21895
Forgot to add the pic with the classy grips. This thing is crying out for a classic Askins Avenger holster.
One of the Italian made Blackhawk sorta Askins-ish holsters inbound.

[JHC]

Last weekend I bought a 351C.
Trigger is heavy smooth.

But I dig it. Slowfire isn't much fun though. ��
These shot slooow at 15 yds
22501

Then I shot it in pretty fast, as fast as I could hold sight picture tight and roll from 7 yards.
22502

Ran into a snag shooting those 7 yards strings about halfway through the first box.
A KB of an Aguila 45 grain SP.
22503

And it broke off part of the extractor star
22504

Sent the gun to S&W today.

Contacted Aguila via their website Monday. Haven't heard from them yet.
Here's the lot
22505

An 11oz revo blows my mind.
I think I'll need a 43C too.

[Wheeler]

Last weekend I bought a 351C.
Trigger is heavy smooth.

But I dig it. Slowfire isn't much fun though. ��
These shot slooow at 15 yds
22501

Then I shot it in pretty fast, as fast as I could hold sight picture tight and roll from 7 yards.
22502

Ran into a snag shooting those 7 yards strings about halfway through the first box.
A KB of an Aguila 45 grain SP.
22503

And it broke off part of the extractor star
22504

Sent the gun to S&W today.

Contacted Aguila via their website Monday. Haven't heard from them yet.
Here's the lot
22505

An 11oz revo blows my mind.
I think I'll need a 43C too.

I know a guy that's sponsored by Aquila. I can't make any guarantees but I can certainly see if he has a name or point of contact if you don't get any traction. I hate that you had a kaboom. I've though long and hard about one of the .22 Mags but can't get past the short barrel and magnum burn rate.

[JHC]

I know a guy that's sponsored by Aquila. I can't make any guarantees but I can certainly see if he has a name or point of contact if you don't get any traction. I hate that you had a kaboom. I've though long and hard about one of the .22 Mags but can't get past the short barrel and magnum burn rate.

Thank you very much. I think S&W will make me whole. I don't expect to make a Congressional out of it with Aguila at this point in time. I'm just not buying any more of their .22 magnum I don't think. But maybe I'm mistaken to blame the ammo, but I don't see how the gun could fire out of battery. ;)

My first KB in like 50 years of shooting. Kinda interesting at least. Thumb felt like I hit it with a hammer, then was numb, but it came back to normal in like 20 mins.

[Wheeler]

Thank you very much. I think S&W will make me whole. I don't expect to make a Congressional out of it with Aguila at this point in time. I'm just not buying any more of their .22 magnum I don't think. But maybe I'm mistaken to blame the ammo, but I don't see how the gun could fire out of battery. ;)

My first KB in like 50 years of shooting. Kinda interesting at least. Thumb felt like I hit it with a hammer, then was numb, but it came back to normal in like 20 mins.


Any chance you have a picture of the ruptured case?

[JHC]

Any chance you have a picture of the ruptured case?

Nope. I never saw the case head, whether it was ejected when it blew of fell out unnoticed when I opened the cylinder. The walls of the case are stuck tight in that chamber. S&W will be getting that out.

[Wheeler]

Nope. I never saw the case head, whether it was ejected when it blew of fell out unnoticed when I opened the cylinder. The walls of the case are stuck tight in that chamber. S&W will be getting that out.

Ahh! I see now. I wasn't sure what that discoloration was where the star had been broken. I now see that's the remains of the case. Wow.

[HeadHunter]

I shot 5^5 with my 43C today.22600

[Wayne Dobbs]

I know a guy that's sponsored by Aquila. I can't make any guarantees but I can certainly see if he has a name or point of contact if you don't get any traction. I hate that you had a kaboom. I've though long and hard about one of the .22 Mags but can't get past the short barrel and magnum burn rate.

I don't think that's the lot number, but only the SKU information. The lot number should be located elsewhere on the package.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Tom,

They look like one of the Herrett's stocks to me.

[HeadHunter]

What stocks are those?

They are Precision Gun Specialties that I sprayed with Brownell's Spray Grit. Even though PGS calls them textured, they're too slick for my taste.

[SeriousStudent]

What stocks are those?

Tom, if you want to "try before you buy", let me know. I have a set of those PGS stocks in the spares box. You are welcome to borrow them if you wish.

[Wheeler]

I don't think that's the lot number, but only the SKU information. The lot number should be located elsewhere on the package.

I think you quoted the wrong person. ;)

[Wayne Dobbs]

I think you're correct! Saw the photo of the SKU on your repost and grabbed it.

[Irelander]

They are Precision Gun Specialties that I sprayed with Brownell's Spray Grit. Even though PGS calls them textured, they're too slick for my taste.

Oh yes. Hideout grips from PGS. I had a set of their combat Hideout grips on a previous j-frame I had. I liked them and regret letting them go with the gun. Need to get another set for my current 642.

[johnnywitt]

Couple of things, first off, I don't wanna make anybody mad here, but the 351 just gives you 1 less round, way more blast/flash, expensive ammo, and gives realistically no more velocity outta that barrel length than the 43c- longer barrel length and the .22 Mag is a way superior round- kinda like a .357 in a 2" J Frame.
The 43c, however, is money with a Wolff Spring Kit and some CCI 36GR Mini Mags. Counter intuitively, out of the 2" barrels they give some of the best penetration because they essentially don't expand and they actually beat the penetration of the 40gr ammo. There's a video on YouTube of a guy testing .22 out of a NAA Mini Revolver in FBI Gel.
I own 2 of the N/L 317's and they are really nice understudy to a 342. I like them for hiking/backpacking in snake country with CCI Shotshells and for putting down big game animals that are wounded. Some of the SV and non standard ammo will not shoot POA/POI. I think S&W Regulated the sights (at least on the 317) for HV 36GR Ammo IMO.
Also, I have a 3" barrel S&W 63 and I'm pretty sure that you could swap out that Big Dot front for the Hi-Vis that comes on the 63 (you don't have that option on the 317's).
Well, time to drink a beer!
Hope everyone has a Happy New Year!

[JHC]

Ahh! I see now. I wasn't sure what that discoloration was where the star had been broken. I now see that's the remains of the case. Wow.

So I just spoke to S&W CS. About another week before it will ship. CS rep tells me the notes on this case say they are replacing the cylinder and the extractor. I would not have though it needed a new cylinder. Seems odd no? May there have been some issue with a cylinder that could promote a KB? Things that make you go "hmmmm."

[BN]

So I just spoke to S&W CS. About another week before it will ship. CS rep tells me the notes on this case say they are replacing the cylinder and the extractor. I would not have though it needed a new cylinder. Seems odd no? May there have been some issue with a cylinder that could promote a KB? Things that make you go "hmmmm."

The over pressure round might have jugged the chamber.

[JHC]

The over pressure round might have jugged the chamber.

Yeah I guess I have to factor in we're talking aluminum cylinder here after all.

[mmc45414]

I would not have though it needed a new cylinder. Seems odd no? May there have been some issue with a cylinder that could promote a KB? Things that make you go "hmmmm."

The over pressure round might have jugged the chamber.

Yeah I guess I have to factor in we're talking aluminum cylinder here after all.
I think their material cost of goods in that cylinder is probably $5-$10, and they would be paying somebody a burdened cost of at least $50hr (probably much more) to dig that case out and measure the chamber and decide if it should be sent back out again. Or just grab the $5 part and move on to the next one. I am just spit-balling on those costs, but I just bought a 637 for $277 (after rebate, including shipping, plus transfer), so not like that cylinder can be that much.

Like the old race engine analogy, "If you have to pick up a part and look at it to determine if it should be replaced, you should just replace the part"...

[JHC]

My 351C came back from S&W this week (new cylinder and extractor) and this morning I started out with this "cold" test from the recent DoW shot in cold temp in the 20's. I'm drawing from hand in coat pocket to the upper alpha at 5 yards. I really dig this little blaster.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/39818629591/in/dateposted-public/

[secondstoryguy]

The only gun I've ever had go high-order on me was an over pressure round of .22 (federal match) in a Kimber bolt gun. I think they overloaded it with priming compound as it blew out the bottom metal of the rifle and scratched/bruised my hand. Both Kimber and Federal went overboard and made it right.

[Wheeler]

I ran another 66 rounds through my 43c today. I'm not really tracking ammo like some folks do but I'm around the 500 round mark now. It just seems to get better to shoot every time I take it out.

[Bratch]

Damn you all.

We stopped at a local store to kill time on the way home from the jewelry story for my wife, I walked out with a 43C. I never would have bought it if it wasn’t for this thread. I haven’t shot it yet but I like the big dot and U. This brings my 22lr revolver collection to 4.

[JHC]

Damn you all.

We stopped at a local store to kill time on the way home from the jewelry story for my wife, I walked out with a 43C. I never would have bought it if it wasn’t for this thread. I haven’t shot it yet but I like the big dot and U. This brings my 22lr revolver collection to 4.

Our work here is done. ;)

[jandbj]

You’re welcome. :cool:

[johnnywitt]

Damn you all.

We stopped at a local store to kill time on the way home from the jewelry story for my wife, I walked out with a 43C. I never would have bought it if it wasn’t for this thread. I haven’t shot it yet but I like the big dot and U. This brings my 22lr revolver collection to 4.


Something about these revolvers that is magic. Now, you have the fun process of figuring out what ammo it shoots to POA/POI. Congrats on your new 43c!
Perfect Kids gun to teach fundamentals of DAO Trigger control, if they are strong enough to pull the DAO Trigger. Wolff springs are great if you don't go overboard, i.e. 38/.357 weights are too light for the .22 primers. One thing for sure: it won't be too expensive to test out to confirm reliability with the ammo it likes anyway. The APEX J Frame spring kit is too light with the J Frame .22- excellent with CF J Frame though; however, I still like Wolff Springs in my J Frames probably because I have just always used Wolff.
You can smooth out the trigger quite a bit with just the yellow (#9?) dry wall anchors as snap caps. You have to change them out a lot because the FP will eat them up pretty quick, but they are cheap & fun to shoot bad guys on the TV with (Elvis Presley style), only he used live ammo, haha. I know a lot of experienced Folks here know all this stuff, but some newer Folks maybe don't.

[Wheeler]

Something about these revolvers that is magic. Now, you have the fun process of figuring out what ammo it shoots to POA/POI. Congrats on your new 43c!
Perfect Kids gun to teach fundamentals of DAO Trigger control, if they are strong enough to pull the DAO Trigger. Wolff springs are great if you don't go overboard, i.e. 38/.357 weights are too light for the .22 primers. One thing for sure: it won't be too expensive to test out to confirm reliability with the ammo it likes anyway. The APEX J Frame spring kit is too light with the J Frame .22- excellent with CF J Frame though; however, I still like Wolff Springs in my J Frames probably because I have just always used Wolff.
You can smooth out the trigger quite a bit with just the yellow (#9?) dry wall anchors as snap caps. You have to change them out a lot because the FP will eat them up pretty quick, but they are cheap & fun to shoot bad guys on the TV with (Elvis Presley style), only he used live ammo, haha. I know a lot of experienced Folks here know all this stuff, but some newer Folks maybe don't.


Claude Werner has done quite a bit of testing with his 43c and 317 using the stock springs from centerfire J frames. His results would lead me to believe that the belief that CF main springs don’t provide positive ignition with quality ammo is erroneous.

My 43c has an Apexspring in it and performs reliably as well.

[LOKNLOD]

Damn you all.

We stopped at a local store to kill time on the way home from the jewelry story for my wife, I walked out with a 43C. I never would have bought it if it wasn’t for this thread. I haven’t shot it yet but I like the big dot and U. This brings my 22lr revolver collection to 4.

Did you get that one in the sale display at wilshire?

I've almost bought it several times.

[johnnywitt]

Claude Werner has done quite a bit of testing with his 43c and 317 using the stock springs from centerfire J frames. His results would lead me to believe that the belief that CF main springs don’t provide positive ignition with quality ammo is erroneous.

My 43c has an Apexspring in it and performs reliably as well.

Well, Wolff Spring Co. doesn't agree. That's why they sell a J Frame Spring Kit for .22RF & a different one for CF. My 2 J Frame .22 317's have a 10.5 & a 9.5 DA Pull respectively.
Both have the 9lb. Hammer Spring the Wolff RF Kit comes with and a selection of a 13, 14 & 15lb. Rebound/Trigger Spring. I did my guns in 1999 so I can't remember which Trigger Spring that I used. The CF Kit comes with a 8lb Hammer Spring.
Rimfire Cartridges by definition have an obsolete ignition system, which was changed for serious use in the 19th century to CF in the Colt SAA. So, when you are dealing with a less than ideal ignition system, maybe its a good idea to stay on the more conservative side of the ignition equation- even in Competition it sucks to have a failure.

[Bratch]

Did you get that one in the sale display at wilshire?

I've almost bought it several times.

I wish you would have bought it and saved me $500. I think they may have another of you decide you need one...

I’ll probably be ordering Wolff RF springs for it.

[johnnywitt]

I wish you would have bought it and saved me $500. I think they may have another of you decide you need one...

I’ll probably be ordering Wolff RF springs for it.

If you are a LEO/1st Responder Bud's has them right now I think. Both the 43c & the 351???- the Mag version. They tend to have halfway decent prices on S&W Rev.'s for LEO's/FR Folks.

[Wheeler]

Well, Wolff Spring Co. doesn't agree. That's why they sell a J Frame Spring Kit for .22RF & a different one for CF. My 2 J Frame .22 317's have a 10.5 & a 9.5 DA Pull respectively.
Both have the 9lb. Hammer Spring the Wolff RF Kit comes with and a selection of a 13, 14 & 15lb. Rebound/Trigger Spring. I did my guns in 1999 so I can't remember which Trigger Spring that I used. The CF Kit comes with a 8lb Hammer Spring.
Rimfire Cartridges by definition have an obsolete ignition system, which was changed for serious use in the 19th century to CF in the Colt SAA. So, when you are dealing with a less than ideal ignition system, maybe its a good idea to stay on the more conservative side of the ignition equation- even in Competition it sucks to have a failure.

I'm passing along information based on results and testing. Do with it what you will.

[jandbj]

Claude Werner has done quite a bit of testing with his 43c and 317 using the stock springs from centerfire J frames. His results would lead me to believe that the belief that CF main springs don’t provide positive ignition with quality ammo is erroneous.

My 43c has an Apexspring in it and performs reliably as well.
Link to Claude’s experiences with CF springs in the RF? My experiences with same are back on page 4 or 5, I think.

[Wheeler]

Link to Claude’s experiences with CF springs in the RF? My experiences with same are back on page 4 or 5, I think.

Claude hasn't published them in a blog post that I'm aware of. They are mentioned on his Tactical Professor page on Facebook as well as on his 1000 Rounds Of Live Fire page.

[Polecat]

Yeah I would like to know Claude’s exact setup if you can recall? Recently got a lighter hammer spring for my 351c and pd. The reduced hammmer spring worked great on my 351PD, had failed primer hits with my 351C. My next goal is polish the internals and try one of the lighter rebound springs.

I am really curious about penetration vs velocity compared betweeen the .22 and .22 WMR, can’t find a head to head online, but isolated vids on 43c by itself or 351 by itself.

Wish S&W would offer these with 9 round cylinders like their old Taurus counterparts.

[HeadHunter]

I put what I believe was a Wolff 8.5lb mainspring in my 43C. It worked pretty well but not 100%. Upped that to a 9lb Wolff and it works fine now.

The other experiment was to swap whatever spring I had in my 317 (I think it was an Apex Duty) with a nearly new 642-2. That worked fine too.

I don't do penetration tests but Marshal Chuck Haggard does. He said Stingers from his .22 LCR pass the FBI protocol for Jello with Jeans (JwJ).

[HeadHunter]

The data I quantify 'fine' as is as follows. I've fired over 1,000 rounds of various types of ammunition as part of my purse project through the 43C. The failure to fire rate has been less than 1%. That's better than most PARs I observe on the range. Two round failed to fire on the second strike and just wouldn't go off at all.

I haven't shot the 317 as extensively but I have perhaps 300 rounds through it with similar results.

[Wheeler]

Yeah I would like to know Claude’s exact setup if you can recall? Recently got a lighter hammer spring for my 351c and pd. The reduced hammmer spring worked great on my 351PD, had failed primer hits with my 351C. My next goal is polish the internals and try one of the lighter rebound springs.

I am really curious about penetration vs velocity compared betweeen the .22 and .22 WMR, can’t find a head to head online, but isolated vids on 43c by itself or 351 by itself.

Wish S&W would offer these with 9 round cylinders like their old Taurus counterparts.

I have a 3” 317 and a 43c. You have a 351PD and 351c. We are in fairly close proximity. Maybe we could make something happen in those regards?

[Polecat]

Headhunter, you have played alot with these things. Do you think anything is gained or lost with using a 43 over a 351 from the caliber standpoint. Thanks!

[johnnywitt]

I have a 3” 317 and a 43c. You have a 351PD and 351c. We are in fairly close proximity. Maybe we could make something happen in those regards?

Wheeler, hey, I've been shooting .22s for long time now (50 yrs, I'm 54). I know enough to know that every gun is an entity unto itself, so I'm not disputing your findings. Sometimes if I like a particular make & model, I will buy more than one. .22's are very strange in that two identical guns will prefer totally different ammo & the triggers will behave differently, even with the exact same springs & polish treatment: hence my 2 317's with one being able to go down to a 9.5lb pull & the other will only go to 10.5 & still maintain reliability. Same with ammo preferences, one gun will shoot well with one ammo and the other gun will maybe shoot "patterns" with that same exact ammo.

On my 342Ti .38 (which is what I actually mostly carry, when not toting a G19) I was able to get my DA Pull down to 8 3/4lb using the Wolff CF Spring Kit which comes with a 8lb Hammer Spring on their CF Kit. The Rebound/Trigger spring array is the same as the RF Kit. Amazing what a 1lb difference can make in reliability on your Hammer Springs.

I know the APEX Kits & parts are ABSOLUTELY TOP NOTCH! Over on BENOS Forums there are Guys using APEX Parts and getting like 3.5LB DAO pulls on their APEX modded 617 K Frames. They have to be careful as just like super light Comp Triggers on any Firearm, they are limited to certain ammo that will ignite.

On another note, in the extensive testing that "Shooting the Bull" called "Ammo Quest .22LR: North American Arms NAA mini-revolver extensive ammo mega test review Part I" & then he did Part II on YouTube, it showed the best results out of his NAA .22LR Mini Revolver with a 1 1/8" barrel to be with CCI Mini Mag 36gr HP being the best & CCI Velocitors best out of a 3.5" barrel. He showed the Velocitors also did very well out of a 16" Henry rifle barrel & so did Aquila SSS Super Snipers 60gr. Btw, these SSS 60gr rounds really need at least a 1/9 twist to stabilize them (they work fantastic out of a AR CMMG Conversion Kit- very good accuracy!) I also like them out of my my Ray Brandes "Bully Barrel" because they hit hard and stabilize out of the 1/9 twist he puts in his barrels. I get dime size groups with them at 20yrd with an optic and a rest. They do, however, have the trajectory of a football punt past 25yrd out of a pistol (kinda like .300blk subs past 200yrds) They won't stabilize out of any of my Handguns, or rifles that have a std. 1 1/16 twist.
The "Shooting the Bull" Guy has some interesting Videos as well on data for the .22 Mag out of short barrels with various ammo/bullet types.

[HeadHunter]

Headhunter, you have played alot with these things. Do you think anything is gained or lost with using a 43 over a 351 from the caliber standpoint. Thanks!

Between 2 friends, they've had 6 22WMR revolvers between them. Three of them were 351s. All of them were problem children in one way or another and all ended up getting sold. That was enough data for me to lose interest in .22 Magnum revolvers. It was designed as a rifle round and I think that's its best role.

[Polecat]

These little J frames in .22 mag do seem a bit “delicate,” maybe not the right word, but very little tolerance for dirt etc. For example, some brands of ammo stick worse than others, often impeding ejection. Long range sessions can leave powder flakes and resdiue under the ejector star and hamper the pull after you close the cylinder without realizing why it seemingly binds at times.

But hey I love ‘em. They are really light weight, even fully loaded. Gives you 7-8 shots. I use mine mostly for quick late evening trips, cauese it is so easy to tote around. I am reallly leaning toward the 43C.

[JHC]

These little J frames in .22 mag do seem a bit “delicate,” maybe not the right word, but very little tolerance for dirt etc. For example, some brands of ammo stick worse than others, often impeding ejection. Long range sessions can leave powder flakes and resdiue under the ejector star and hamper the pull after you close the cylinder without realizing why it seemingly binds at times.

But hey I love ‘em. They are really light weight, even fully loaded. Gives you 7-8 shots. I use mine mostly for quick late evening trips, cauese it is so easy to tote around. I am reallly leaning toward the 43C.

I love my 351C. It's been very powder residue tolerant with weekly shooting albeit not the kind of volume my big pistols get. But more tolerant than my 50 year old K-22. I will count myself fortunate. A 43C will have to be in the cards too.

[Bratch]

I was able to put some rounds through the 43c today at lunch. I’m really liking it.

This little thing can shoot even if I can’t. This was 8 rounds at 15yds and 8 rounds at 25 yds. That dot is really big at 25. I’m still trying to figure out the elevation but overall pretty pleased with it.

Picture is rotated left. The rounds were hitting high.
24894

[Wheeler]

I was able to put some rounds through the 43c today at lunch. I’m really liking it.

This little thing can shoot even if I can’t. This was 8 rounds at 15yds and 8 rounds at 25 yds. That dot is really big at 25. I’m still trying to figure out the elevation but overall pretty pleased with it.

Picture is rotated left. The rounds were hitting high.
24894

In my experience the dot covers the head on a SQTA-1 target. It also shoots to point of aim at that distance with Mini Mags. At 100 yards I aimed about 6" high at the top of a steel plate and hit it once out of eight shots.

[Bratch]

In my experience the dot covers the head on a SQTA-1 target. It also shoots to point of aim at that distance with Mini Mags. At 100 yards I aimed about 6" high at the top of a steel plate and hit it once out of eight shots.

I was covering the blue with the dot on those. Also was shooting Remington Golden bull which probably isn’t the most consistent.

[johnnywitt]

Couple of things, first off, I don't wanna make anybody mad here, but the 351 just gives you 1 less round, way more blast/flash, expensive ammo, and gives realistically no more velocity outta that barrel length than the 43c- longer barrel length and the .22 Mag is a way superior round- kinda like a .357 in a 2" J Frame.
The 43c, however, is money with a Wolff Spring Kit and some CCI 36GR Mini Mags. Counter intuitively, out of the 2" barrels they give some of the best penetration because they essentially don't expand and they actually beat the penetration of the 40gr ammo. There's a video on YouTube of a guy testing .22 out of a NAA Mini Revolver in FBI Gel.
I own 2 of the N/L 317's and they are really nice understudy to a 342. I like them for hiking/backpacking in snake country with CCI Shotshells and for putting down big game animals that are wounded. Some of the SV and non standard ammo will not shoot POA/POI. I think S&W Regulated the sights (at least on the 317) for HV 36GR Ammo IMO.
Also, I have a 3" barrel S&W 63 and I'm pretty sure that you could swap out that Big Dot front for the Hi-Vis that comes on the 63 (you don't have that option on the 317's).
Well, time to drink a beer!
Hope everyone has a Happy New Year!

I just wanted to recap here on the 351c. I was wrong about the .22Mag in the 1 7/8" barrel. It does give more blast and flash, but it gives you .22LR Rifle velocities. The only drawback is the price of the ammo. I guess the upside is you can still buy ammo for this caliber at Wally World.

[jtcarm]

I think youll like it. I had a glass shop cut me a piece of 1/4" glass about 6x8 inch, they sand the edges to make them safe. Be sure they understand it isnt for a window or they may not sand it at all. i asked for minimal sanding, just enough to make it safe to handle. I told them it was for polishing small gun parts and I wanted to be able to get into a corner as tight as I could. They did a fair job. It may be worth asking to leave one side nearly unsanded (JUST barely enough to be safe), and do the other 3 a bit more for handling comfort. It makes a perfectly flat surface to work parts on. Ive noticed my stones wear unevenly over time, the glass and wet-or-dry ended up working very well. I cut pieces of the paper in sizes adequate for what I'm working on.

If you want to go slow, use finer grade paper and keep checking it. You need to keep changing the area you work on or get a fresh piece of paper pretty often. A couple sheets of each goes a long ways though. If you cut it up into smaller pieces, write on the back of each piece what the grade is. Its easy to lose track.

Besides a nail, you can also use the shank of various size drill bits, chucked in the drill backwards for polishing holes. Ive been doing that for an AR rifle barrel extension opened up for M4 upper to match the ramps.

I use pieces of Corian as a lap plate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jtcarm]

Yellow drywall anchors are universal in the rimfire world. But they don't feed very well in semis.

Tipton Snap Caps 22 LR (https://www.amazon.com/Tipton-Snap-Caps-22-Per/dp/B0048KFHI8/)

22lr Plastic Safety Snap Caps/24 Pachmayr 3200 (https://www.amazon.com/22lr-Plastic-Safety-Snap-Pachmayr/dp/B0018DYGSA/)

They wear out pretty quickly, though. This is one reason I have the habit of being on mailing lists and stopping in the local Academy when I'm driving by. Snap caps are one of the things that sometimes are discounted massively.



Agree with the Ruger advice. Mine came out surprisingly nice.

I like to use the small-diameter stones. They are dedicated for working on guns, so they don't get worn out doing other stuff. I use baby oil because it's cheap and doesn't hurt anything when it gets on my skin. Dispensed from a needle tip bottle (https://www.amazon.com/NEEDLE-DROPPER-BOTTLES-E-Liquids-Liquids/dp/B00H6OY6SU/). I picked up most of the stones from Enco before they were absorbed by MSC Direct, when they would have significant discounts site-wide and free shipping with no minimum.

Midway sells a set (https://www.midwayusa.com/product/566859/norton-hard-arkansas-sharpening-stone-pack-of-4-ultra-fine) that is almost identical to the one Brownell's sells (http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/metal-prep-coloring/stones/gunsmith-s-premium-arkansas-stone-file-set-prod625.aspx), for about half the price. It's rare that I buy anything from Brownell's, as they are usually the most expensive place to buy anything they sell.

You can get that set, plus the same thing in a coarser grit that will knock down the big lumps and rough edges a little faster, from Zoro tools (https://www.zoro.com/norton-file-set-61463686840/i/G0832237/). Good vendor, I use them a lot. They also sell through ebay. They often have hardware that's difficult to find anywhere else, and if you get on their mailing list, they sometimes have substantial site-wide discounts.

+1 on Zorro. That’s where I buy my stones.

Good prices & fast shipping.

[TCinVA]

I would strongly encourage anyone who's carrying one of these rimfire revolvers in .22LR to get yourself some Federal "Punch" ammo for it. The testing I'm seeing seems to indicate it reliably penetrates to FBI standards...and the accuracy even from these little snub revolvers is excellent. This is my last 4 rounds of the box at 25 yards:

81057

It's likely more accurate than that, but my ability to manage the sights on that gun isn't good enough to achieve a better result. I would expect that Federal will eventually produce a .22 WMR version as well.

It seems to burn cleaner as well, cutting down on fouling which allows the revolver to run better through a larger number of rounds fired during a practice session. Even so, the revolver will eventually get dirty enough to bind up and impact the trigger weight and that leads to pulling shots off target:

81058

The cheek shots and the almost pierced ear are a direct result of the trigger weight suddenly increasing dramatically from one shot to the next.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I love my 351C. It's been very powder residue tolerant with weekly shooting albeit not the kind of volume my big pistols get. But more tolerant than my 50 year old K-22. I will count myself fortunate. A 43C will have to be in the cards too.

That's interesting. Historically - I had a SW 651 way back in the 90's, IIRC. That's a 2 inch SS hammered gun. After 50 rounds of some 22 Mag - who knows what - it jammed up solid with gunk. I had to use a tsunami of a cleaning spray to free it up and then take it apart. I noted that when I shot it at 7 yards, it left a cloud of black on the paper targets. Don't know if today's ammo would do such. I sold it - wish I kept it just because but I needed the bucks and didn't want to deal with the ammo issue. I had a SW 317LS and hated the trigger. Also needed the money and sold it. Sidebar, took it to the local, pompous ass LGS who offered me a terrible low ball saying: It's a uuuuuusssed gun! So took it to the gun show for $100 bucks more in a sale. His store went under quickly.

[PNWTO]

I would strongly encourage anyone who's carrying one of these rimfire revolvers in .22LR to get yourself some Federal "Punch" ammo for it. The testing I'm seeing seems to indicate it reliably penetrates to FBI standards...and the accuracy even from these little snub revolvers is excellent. This is my last 4 rounds of the box at 25 yards:

I’ve been really impressed with the accuracy and relative cleanliness of the .22 Punch. I also like the testing I’ve seen and the MV on the box seems true for the snubbies as well.

[Blades]

I would strongly encourage anyone who's carrying one of these rimfire revolvers in .22LR to get yourself some Federal "Punch" ammo for it. The testing I'm seeing seems to indicate it reliably penetrates to FBI standards...and the accuracy even from these little snub revolvers is excellent. This is my last 4 rounds of the box at 25 yards:




I’ve been really impressed with the accuracy and relative cleanliness of the .22 Punch. I also like the testing I’ve seen and the MV on the box seems true for the snubbies as well.

Good to know. I'll have to see if one of my LGS's has some in stock. Sounds great for my 43c.

[JHC]

That's interesting. Historically - I had a SW 651 way back in the 90's, IIRC. That's a 2 inch SS hammered gun. After 50 rounds of some 22 Mag - who knows what - it jammed up solid with gunk. I had to use a tsunami of a cleaning spray to free it up and then take it apart. I noted that when I shot it at 7 yards, it left a cloud of black on the paper targets. Don't know if today's ammo would do such. I sold it - wish I kept it just because but I needed the bucks and didn't want to deal with the ammo issue. I had a SW 317LS and hated the trigger. Also needed the money and sold it. Sidebar, took it to the local, pompous ass LGS who offered me a terrible low ball saying: It's a uuuuuusssed gun! So took it to the gun show for $100 bucks more in a sale. His store went under quickly.

My late 60's vintage K22 is spectacularly accurate and so it's needing of some brushing every 100-200 rounds is fine by me!

[GJM]

I have shot many thousands of rounds through my pre lock 317, and hardly have cleaned it.

[BN]

I would strongly encourage anyone who's carrying one of these rimfire revolvers in .22LR to get yourself some Federal "Punch" ammo for it. The testing I'm seeing seems to indicate it reliably penetrates to FBI standards...and the accuracy even from these little snub revolvers is excellent. This is my last 4 rounds of the box at 25 yards:


I've been carrying CCI Velocitors in my 43c. They have a 40 grain bullet and they chrono 965 fps in my 43c. Does anybody have any penetration tests for them?

[GJM]

I've been carrying CCI Velocitors in my 43c. They have a 40 grain bullet and they chrono 965 fps in my 43c. Does anybody have any penetration tests for them?

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/

[314159]

BN has a good question. In a snubby, I had always understood that the Velocitor was the top of the heap in penetration. The referenced Lucky Gunner test indicated that, although it was in ClearGel. The Punch appears to be more similar to the the Stinger in ballistics, although the bullet design may make a bigger difference than I would think.

It would be informative to see a 4LD comparison in proper spec ballistic gelatin (or even ClearGel, assuming a consistency I'm not sure is valid) between the two rounds here. Let's throw in the 60 gr. Aguila while you're at it.

Who can or will accept the homework?

[GJM]

When I shot DocGlock’s LCR 22 last Saturday, I recall just holding the sights level and getting POA/POI. Shot my nearly new 43C for the first time in a while today, and had to elevate the front sight to get POA/POI. This sound right?

[314159]

I use my .22 LCR as a cheap training aid for my .327 LCR. I have a HiViz fiber optic front sight, with Velocitors the POA/POI are the same. Two extra shots are tempting.

[BN]

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/

Chris averaged 888fps with 5 rounds through the 43c. Over the last couple years I have chronographed 40 rounds of Velocitor over 3 different sessions and I always get an average of around 965 fps through my 43c.

I recently got a 9mm LCR and now I probably need a 22LR LCR. :)

[Doc_Glock]

When I shot DocGlock’s LCR 22 last Saturday, I recall just holding the sights level and getting POA/POI. Shot my nearly new 43C for the first time in a while today, and had to elevate the front sight to get POA/POI. This sound right?


Front sight goes up about half the circle in notch. The sights suck.

[Colt191145lover]

Front sight goes up about half the circle in notch. The sights suck.

I agree, the 43c sight is terrible.

[Blades]

Found some punch.
81240

[Doc_Glock]

So I am near 3000 rounds through the 43C. And while it is a fun DAO trainer, and also somewhat fun to shoot it is really held back by the sights.

I just put a Hi Vis Fiber optic in it and honesty it isn’t any better than the stock sight. $45 down the drain. Both sights hit low unless you use a crazy stupid sight picture with like half the front sight elevated above the rear notch.

There are folks who can put real sights on a J frame but it is a $275 proposition.

https://www.dlsports.com/dl_jframe_sw_sights.html

At this point I think I am going to retire it and use it simply for dry fire because I find it so frustrating in general to shoot. Especially as the pace increases.

I am open to sight suggestions.

[GJM]

So I am near 3000 rounds through the 43C. And while it is a fun DAO trainer, and also somewhat fun to shoot it is really held back by the sights.

I just put a Hi Vis Fiber optic in it and honesty it isn’t any better than the stock sight. $45 down the drain. Both sights hit low unless you use a crazy stupid sight picture with like half the front sight elevated above the rear notch.

There are folks who can put real sights on a J frame but it is a $275 proposition.

https://www.dlsports.com/dl_jframe_sw_sights.html

At this point I think I am going to retire it and use it simply for dry fire because I find it so frustrating in general to shoot. Especially as the pace increases.

I am open to sight suggestions.

I think you should spring for the D&L sights -- what the heck if you have the most expensive 43C in the world.

The Punch ammo doesn't hit properly in windage on multiple of my revolvers (Smith and Ruger).

[314159]

I've shot about 75 rounds of Punch in the last few days. No windage problems in my LCR, Beretta 87, or FN 502. It does print a little low in the 502 but even that wasn't too bad. Exceptionally "flashy" for a .22 in all of them. In this limited test it functioned the B 87 just fine but the 502 bobbled a bit. That might have been my thumbs retarding the slide or I suspect the round lacks the oomph needed for some self loaders. The FN is brand new also.

[BN]

So I am near 3000 rounds through the 43C. And while it is a fun DAO trainer, and also somewhat fun to shoot it is really held back by the sights.

I just put a Hi Vis Fiber optic in it and honesty it isn’t any better than the stock sight. $45 down the drain. Both sights hit low unless you use a crazy stupid sight picture with like half the front sight elevated above the rear notch.

At this point I think I am going to retire it and use it simply for dry fire because I find it so frustrating in general to shoot. Especially as the pace increases.

I am open to sight suggestions.

Here's what I wrote in June from this thread: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?48152-S-amp-W-43C-vs-317

The first picture is the 43c with a HIVIZ front sight that is .125" wide and .140" tall. It gives a pretty good sight picture with plenty of light on each side of the sight when down completely in the notch. I shot groups at distance from 5 yards to 25 yards and it hits low. I did the Dawson calculator and it needs a sight .110" tall. Dawson has a .110" tall by .100" wide fiber optic and I will probably get one. https://dawsonprecision.com/s-w-pinn...-front-sights/ Cylinder and Slide has a .112" tall with unknown width. https://cylinder-slide.com/Item/CS0430F

Also later: I installed a Dawson .110" tall by .100" wide on my 43c and it shoots POA/POI with CCI Mini Mags and Velocitors out to 25 yards. Minor differences at closer distances, but very usable. I like the deep, wide rear notch on the 43c.

Today. I found the narrow Dawson sight hard to see even though it seemed to hit POA/POI. I then installed an XS standard dot and while I like the big sight, it hits low unless I float the whole dot above the rear notch.

How I resolved the problem: I removed the 43c from my pocket and replaced it with my Ruger LCR 9mm. ;)

[JCN]

Edit

[JCN]

Edit

[JCN]

EDIT:
Not familiar with those guns, I realize now that a 43c has a pinned replaceable front sight.

The super easy button would be to buy a blade front and cut/grind it down.

The Dawson custom FO looks awesome too.

[TWR]

My 43c has gone through several sights and none of them worked as well as the original white golf ball sitting up there.
It’s made by XS and I ordered their night sight with green paint around it and thought it was going to be the one. It shot well under the dot. XS doesn’t make another height cause not enough interest. The lack of recoil is why this one shoots low.

Ordered a Dawson FO and just don’t remember why it didn’t work but it didn’t last long either.

I did think about putting the blade out of my 640-1 in it but decided to put the white ball back in and it shoots to POA but will shoot left or right depending on which side the sun is on. But it’s not a target gun and most don’t shoot a snubbie at 15 yards or further like we do. So I just remember what it is and I’m okay with that. I can hit a 10x12 plate at 50 yards so it’s not that bad.

But I still read every 43c thread I find hoping to find a better solution.

[BN]

I finally ended up with the green XS standard dot tritium front sight. I float the entire dot in the U notch rear sight, sort of like a ghost ring with the top cut off and I drive the dot. About half of the dot is above the rear notch. I can do head shots on my A/C steel target at 15 yards.

I have decided that this is not a target pistol, but a handy pocket pistol.

I am just finishing my second brick of Velocitors which is what I carry and mostly shoot. I probably have around 1000 rounds fired total. I will often go out on the back porch and run a cylinder plus a reload or 3. It's an easy pistol to shoot, unlike my 9mm LCR.

After I shoot, I run a nylon brush through the chambers, reload and put it back in my pocket. Since I've been having some back problems, this is the most comfortable gun I can carry without pain.

[BN]

40 rounds of Velocitor at steel today. 16 during the day, 16 at dusk where I could still see the targets OK but black sights would have been very hard to see and 8 after dark. I had to use my flashlight to see the target. I held it out to one side as far as I could to barely illuminate the target. The trituim sight worked well. All hits at 15 yards and some hits at 50 yards.

[GJM]

I put LG-105 laser grips on my 43C, at the recommendation of Darryl. Game changer for me. For quick and dirty, out of the pocket to a B8 at five yards, they are the easy switch. I do wish the button was a little easier to activate, as I need to grip pretty hard to reliably activate the laser.

[Up1911Fan]

I put LG-105 laser grips on my 43C, at the recommendation of Darryl. Game changer for me. For quick and dirty, out of the pocket to a B8 at five yards, they are the easy switch. I do wish the button was a little easier to activate, as I need to grip pretty hard to reliably activate the laser.

Any reasoning for the 105 over the 405? Besides maybe durability? I say that only half joking as I just had to send two pairs of 405's back to CT, 1 was repaired, the other is being replaced. I do like the backstrap cushion, but mine are on a 340 and 342. Was considering another set for my 351c.

[BN]

I put a CT405 grip on my 43c. I like the laser so far. I like the thicker back strap to increase the trigger reach. My trigger finger bottoms out on the frame without a thick back strap.

[GJM]

Any reasoning for the 105 over the 405? Besides maybe durability? I say that only half joking as I just had to send two pairs of 405's back to CT, 1 was repaired, the other is being replaced. I do like the backstrap cushion, but mine are on a 340 and 342. Was considering another set for my 351c.

Darryle recommended the 105 on the .22 and the 405 on the .38's. I have been coonfingering both this afternoon, and the 405 is slightly easier for me to activate.

[Doc_Glock]

Darryle recommended the 105 on the .22 and the 405 on the .38's. I have been coonfingering both this afternoon, and the 405 is slightly easier for me to activate.


Crap! There is another model? If the 405 is thicker that would explain easier activation.

Edit: checked Amazon. $50 more for the 405. It looks a little thicker in the backstrap.

[JHC]

Darryle recommended the 105 on the .22 and the 405 on the .38's. I have been coonfingering both this afternoon, and the 405 is slightly easier for me to activate.

From pics it looks like the 105 is slightly longer in the grip? Something I'd prefer. Ken H is preaching the CT on the 351C as well. Not sure which model though. I should pull the trigger on one as my 351C sights have a pretty high POI. My new 317 however wouldn't warrant one for me. It's too easy to hit precisely out of the box. Crimony that's a superb little gun.

[Blades]

My local gun store did have 5 boxes of Punch. I bought 3. One box is for my mother and her 43C.
https://i.imgur.com/1BZX5NG.jpg

[jandbj]

I put LG-105 laser grips on my 43C, at the recommendation of Darryl. Game changer for me. For quick and dirty, out of the pocket to a B8 at five yards, they are the easy switch. I do wish the button was a little easier to activate, as I need to grip pretty hard to reliably activate the laser.

In Rhett’s YouTube video on the LCR22 he describes using shoe goo to make the activation button larger on his hogue laser grip. I may try the same with my 105 grip.

https://youtu.be/VIZ0D3FF_4s

[DrkBlue]

In Rhett’s YouTube video on the LCR22 he describes using shoe goo to make the activation button larger on his hogue laser grip. I may try the same with my 105 grip.

https://youtu.be/VIZ0D3FF_4s

May God bless you for that share!

Very comfy and useful grip, but I had to shift my grip to regularly activate the grip. Nice solution.