two dot or three dot night sights

[breakingtime91]

So, I am looking at going back to night sights on my pistols. I was wondering what everyone's opinion on two dot or three dot arrangements are. Also what are the popular Ameriglo options?

[StraitR]

You already know my answer, but I'll weigh in anyway. I'm a all black rear, tritium front user. I prefer having only one dot for simplicity. Even have a single pin (dot) bow sight.

[EJO]

You already know my answer, but I'll weigh in anyway. I'm a all black rear, tritium front user. I prefer having only one dot for simplicity. Even have a single pin (dot) bow sight.

This! Ameriglo has some great options for tritium front sights then slap a plain black rear on and you're ready to go.

[rathos]

also a fan of the blank rear. If I must have something I would do a 2 dot setup (one front and one rear). I am starting to favor fiber optic sights more than anything else.

[spinmove_]

I'm also currently running fiber. If I were to go back to tritium it'd probably be AmeriGlo Defoor with tritium or some other tritium front only arrangement.


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[Beat Trash]

I've run three dot night sights for the last 25 years. The concept of a tritium front dot only has merit, but I'm a creature of habit I guess.

My current "go-to" is the Ameriglo Spartan Tactical with the orange front..

[Leroy Suggs]

I will join the front dot plain black rear refrain.

[PD Sgt.]

Another here in the front tritium only camp for night sights.

Having said that, my second choice is the two dot set up but I do not know what AmeriGlo is currently offering. I do like the pro glow fronts as I get older. I am also trying out a set of their BOLD sights (three dot) to see if I like them or not, but it is too early for me to tell yet.

[That Guy]

I like three dots. Especially if the rear dots are different color than the front.

[dfeder530]

I'll add my vote to the front tritium and blacked out rear. Specifically, I have the Ameriglo Hackathorn sights on my carry gun, which is a red front sight with tritium and blacked out serrated rear notch. It's close enough to my full size pistol that has a red fiber optic and blacked out rear, but is a little more functional during dawn/dusk lighting conditions.

[Artemas2]

Started with threes which more often that not become six. Recently switched to two dots. The straight 8s don't bug out my eyes as bad as the threes for some reason.

[pangloss]

I think any reasonable combination works. I prefer three dot to dot over dot, but front only is fine too.

I like the Ameriglo Bold sights, but I recently put a GL-212-OR-Q front sight in my dad's G17 which I may like even more than the Bold front. Alternatively, a Trijicon HD front might pair nicely with a 10-8 Performance rear if you go with front tritium only. Need to check the dimensions on those...

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[breakingtime91]

Anyone know which night sight front would work with a defoor rear?

[spinmove_]

Anyone know which night sight front would work with a defoor rear?

IIRC any that are of a standard height Glock front sight which should be 0.165" tall.


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[psalms144.1]

IIRC, the Defoors are "standard" rear height, so any of the standard fronts should work. FWIW, my personal favorite are the Yellow "Square" front sights - and I prefer the standard over the thin version. In fact, were I looking for a front only NS option, it would be the GL-642 "Spaulding" set, or the "CAP" set with the same front sight...

[Gio]

I would go with the 3 dot setup. Do not rely on a flashlight to enable you to see your sights clearly to shoot. I have been in plenty of low light situations where I could easily see well enough to identify a target, even 15-20+ yds away, but don't have enough light to effectively use sights without tritium. To get accurate hits you need a horizontal and vertical alignment reference (i.e. 3 dots). 2 dot sights don't give you this, they only allow you to line up the sights in the horizontal plane and you have to make an estimated guess on whether or not the vertical alignment is good to go. If you only have one aiming reference (front dot only) you can't accurately line up the sights in the horizontal or vertical plane, you just have 1 dot floating in front of you that you are trying to align with muscle memory.

For a worst case scenario, try standing in a dark shadow aiming at a target out about 20 yds away that is standing in some ambient light like an outdoor flood light or vehicle head light. Now put that target in a dark navy or black T shirt and try to get a sight picture with only one tritium dot or fiber optic front with no flashlight.

For those of you recommending something other than 3 dot, I would be interesting hearing what kind of experience you have with low light training. How often do you do it? Do you force yourself to train low light without a flashlight? Do you do any kind of advanced drills on targets like swingers, drop turners, etc (i.e. targets that disappear or don't stay in one spot) where you may only have a split second to engage? Do you use targets that have less contrast with a low light environment than white target paper? Have you tried several different sight setups like 3 dot, 2 dot, 1 dot, and fiber front on these types of drills to see what your performance differences are? One of my favorite low light drills is Bob Vogel's swinger drill at about 15 yds. Try to setup the lighting as described above where the target is in some kind of ambient light like a vehicle's head lights, and you are standing in a complete shadow. Load up a full mag, shoot a steel activator, and then engage the swinger with as many rounds as you can on each pass. Count up your A zone hits at the end.

[spinmove_]

I would go with the 3 dot setup. Do not rely on a flashlight to enable you to see your sights clearly to shoot. I have been in plenty of low light situations where I could easily see well enough to identify a target, even 15-20+ yds away, but don't have enough light to effectively use sights without tritium. To get accurate hits you need a horizontal and vertical alignment reference (i.e. 3 dots). 2 dot sights don't give you this, they only allow you to line up the sights in the horizontal plane and you have to make an estimated guess on whether or not the vertical alignment is good to go. If you only have one aiming reference (front dot only) you can't accurately line up the sights in the horizontal or vertical plane, you just have 1 dot floating in front of you that you are trying to align with muscle memory.

For a worst case scenario, try standing in a dark shadow aiming at a target out about 20 yds away that is standing in some ambient light like an outdoor flood light or vehicle head light. Now put that target in a dark navy or black T shirt and try to get a sight picture with only one tritium dot or fiber optic front with no flashlight.

For those of you recommending something other than 3 dot, I would be interesting hearing what kind of experience you have with low light training. How often do you do it? Do you force yourself to train low light without a flashlight? Do you do any kind of advanced drills on targets like swingers, drop turners, etc (i.e. targets that disappear or don't stay in one spot) where you may only have a split second to engage? Do you use targets that have less contrast with a low light environment than white target paper? Have you tried several different sight setups like 3 dot, 2 dot, 1 dot, and fiber front on these types of drills to see what your performance differences are? One of my favorite low light drills is Bob Vogel's swinger drill at about 15 yds. Try to setup the lighting as described above where the target is in some kind of ambient light like a vehicle's head lights, and you are standing in a complete shadow. Load up a full mag, shoot a steel activator, and then engage the swinger with as many rounds as you can on each pass. Count up your A zone hits at the end.

Have I done any low light training? Nope, but I definitely need to so I can see what I need in different situations, which is why I haven't been plunking down tons of cash on "flavor of the month" sights that seem to surface here and there.

The last 3 dot set of tritium that I tried was the AmeriGlo Operators. I liked them for the most part, until the fact that the front dot didn't align properly with the rear dots bothered me too much. It was at that point the tritium vial in the front sight failed and needed to be fixed. I went to Defoors for the time being and eventually transitioned to a fiber front just to see what that was all about which is where I'm at now.

I do have the AmeriGlo Pro-Glo combo sights on a Shield, but that sight picture is all sorts of messed up and desperately needs to be changed.


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[Chance]

I used TruGlo TFO sights for a while, with the green front and the yellow rears. They've had some issues (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1319-Any-experience-with-TruGlo-Tritium-Fiber-Optic-sights), but I'm not an uber-round count guy, so I never saw that personally. They worked wonderfully in bright light and low light, but were hard to pick up in mediocre light.

They've made some updates to the design that were intended to increase longevity, but I don't have experience with those. The TFOs I had on my SIRT gun are for sale (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?26098-Glock-TRUGLO-TFO-Sights-Never-Used!-Yellow-Rear-Green-Front).

[DAB]

i have no-dot (old Gold cup), 1 dot (92G brig-tac), 2 dot (old 92F), and 3 dot (PX4 and others). i shoot them all well, they aren't the limiting factor, I am.

[Wondering Beard]

I've had some low light training, some years back, (and I still practice every so often with a handheld light - if I'm by myself at the indoor range, I always ask for the lights to be dimmed some) as well as experience during 'realistic scenarios' (at the NTI and Tom Givens' Tactical Conference) and I can tell you that a 3 dot setup really slows me down (even with the subdued rear of the Trijicon HDs) as the rear dots momentarily overwhelm me as I try to figure out where the front dot is. It didn't use to be the case when I was younger but my eyes have aged and dots at the rear attract my focus way too easily.

I haven't tried any of the comparisons you suggest (@Gio) because I simply don't have the time, but for my eyes, I would at most go with a two dot set up and much prefer a black rear to anything else.

[blues]

Last year when I shot the night qualifications for LEOSA and had the OEM plastic sights on my G19 and 26, I had to shoot instinctively on the portion shot with very low light and no flashlight. I just couldn't pick up my sights at all. The rest, both with or without the flashlight, wasn't too terribly bad as the white dot picked up enough ambient light and I ended up maxing out the night qual in any case.

It was enough, however, to make me want to install the Trijicon HDs on my three Glocks and I'm glad I did. It didn't result in a higher night score this year as I had already maxed it, but it did allow for faster acquisition with or without the handheld flash and "maybe" tighter groups but I can't say as I don't have the targets.

Though I have a bit of astigmatism in my almost 65 year old eyes, (I don't wear any corrective lenses but for on the computer indoors at home), the three dot array does not present any issues for me in acquiring my sight picture in low light or total darkness.

[psalms144.1]

The "how many dots" and "tritium vs FO" questions are darn near as toxic as discussing religion or politics, based on how strongly people feel about what works best for them, so I try to stay out of what's "best." Having said that, my first LE agency used to issue standard steel-sight only pistols. As part of a position paper arguing for a different option, we did a "field test" using a number of shooters (IIRC it was 6-10) who represented the full spectrum of skill from excellent shooters/gun handlers to folks we were just barely comfortable arming.

We shot a series of simple multiple shot drills on a series of targets and lighting conditions with pistols equipped with no NS, front NS only, and 3-dot NS (didn't have access to any 2-dots) We had everyone shoot the 3-dots first on the drills, so that we could isolate performance improvements away from familiarity with the drill. Targets were front lit, back-lit, and unlit (ambient light only, but a decent amount of moonlight). Shooters were either in a dark shooting position, or had some dim range lighting active. In the interim, the computer I had the hard data on crashed and was subsequently trashed, so, unfortunately, I don't have the hard numbers in front of me, but I do remember the general nature of the results of this test.

First and foremost, the sight configuration had more influence on the weaker shooters than the stronger shooters - so there was a much larger performance increase in accuracy and speed for the worst shooters as they moved through the sights from no NS to 3-dots. Secondly, the best shooters shot the fastest with front NS only - simple sight picture that was nearly always available; moderate and weak shooters actually tended to shoot slower as they struggled to line up the single dot (I attributed this to a weak or non-existent "natural point of aim" with our Sigs). All shooters shot most accurately with the 3-dots, across the board.

My take away from this test was that 3-dots were the "safest" bet as they allow the most practical accuracy in a variety of lighting conditions, but I could see using just a front NS on a platform where a shooter is very familiar with how to hold and point the pistol with a rough or non-existent rear sight index.

Like I said earlier, I know lots of folks who I would LOVE to have with me when my gunfight arrives who swear by FO, or front NS only - and their performance in real world, low light shootings proves their opinion. For me, I'm a 3-dot guy, as long as I can get contrasting and/or dimmer/smaller rears.

[GJM]

As pointed out, internet wars have been fought over this topic. I don't think there is a right answer, as it depends on your eyes and your situation.

Do you want sights optimized for dark conditions, then three dot tritium.

Do you want sights optimized for day, then perhaps fiber optic.

Do you want a compromise sighting arrangement, perhaps a tritium front and black rear.

Do you have a WML, or handheld white light, and plan to shoot with it on, then all these sights look about the same.

How do your eyes work, in terms of seeing the front sight, and do you want a fiber to help with that. My eyes really pick up a fiber better during the day. A small white light/laser on the rail, paired with a fiber front and black rear like Dawson chargers, might be the ideal set-up for my eyes.

These are all compromises and you need to pick what is right for your situation.

[muddychi]

Three dots with a red sharpie on the rears to make the front standout.

[APS-PF]

When I shot IDPA and used my carry gun I had ameriglo tritium front/rear but white outline only on the front. That's was fine against light colored targets as the dark rear sight is easy to see. When I tried the same setup on PPC targets it was very hard for me to clearly see the rear sight. Realizing that what I am shooting at might not always be light in color I switched to three dot sights so I could more easily see my rears under a wider range of conditions like psalms144.1 mentioned above.
I am now using the Ameriglo Orange Pro Dot (green trit) with the Classic tritium rear (yellow trit). The bright orange dot is enough contract to allow me to focus on it without the white rear rings distracting.

[Nephrology]

I've personally settled on 3-dot Ameriglo Spartan Tactical/Trijicon HD style sights for my carry pistols. I run fiber optics on my game pistols. As has been said before I think it's a personal choice and wouldn't ever tell someone their choice is stupid unless it was really, really stupid (https://gnarlygorilla.com/deadringer-hunting-snake-eyes-tritium-sights-front-and-rear-springfield-armory-xd-green-green-dr4111/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&adpos=1o1&scid=scplpGG-GS-284751&sc_intid=GG-GS-284751&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI88nJ4I-01QIVg4uzCh2qVw_AEAQYASABEgIlfPD_BwE).

[Gio]

First and foremost, the sight configuration had more influence on the weaker shooters than the stronger shooters - so there was a much larger performance increase in accuracy and speed for the worst shooters as they moved through the sights from no NS to 3-dots. Secondly, the best shooters shot the fastest with front NS only - simple sight picture that was nearly always available; moderate and weak shooters actually tended to shoot slower as they struggled to line up the single dot (I attributed this to a weak or non-existent "natural point of aim" with our Sigs). All shooters shot most accurately with the 3-dots, across the board.


I agree with most of what you said, and I do think good shooters can do well by leaning on muscle memory/natural point of aim with only one or two tritium dots, especially at closer distances (5-7 yds). If you put them in awkward positions or get them shooting on the move though, you may find that their ability to shoot well with the single dot drops dramatically.

[JTQ]

If you put them in awkward positions or get them shooting on the move though, you may find that their ability to shoot well with the single dot drops dramatically.
Doesn't Gabe White have a shoot on the move in low light video? It seems I've seen one, but I don't know where. I don't know what he uses for sights either.

[breakingtime91]

So I am currently looking at getting a pair of spartan tactical sights.. Yellow rear and green front tritium. Also throwing around the idea of maybe a night sight front only but I am unsure how that gives me much benefit low light over the Defoors I am running now.

[LSP552]

So I am currently looking at getting a pair of spartan tactical sights.. Yellow rear and green front tritium. Also throwing around the idea of maybe a night sight front only but I am unsure how that gives me much benefit low light over the Defoors I am running now.

I've used about every sight combo on the market over the years. For my eyes now, the Spartans yellow/green are on all my carry glocks. They are an excellent choice.

[OnionsAndDragons]

So I am currently looking at getting a pair of spartan tactical sights.. Yellow rear and green front tritium. Also throwing around the idea of maybe a night sight front only but I am unsure how that gives me much benefit low light over the Defoors I am running now.

I like the Defoor rear with TCAP setup a lot.

I also love the Operator rears, which I believe are the same as the Spartan Tac, coming in a yellow or amber color.

I guess I'm another guy that wants differentiation of my rear sight; whether that be color or black.

You should order a TCAP just to try it out. If you don't like it, I'll take it off your hands if someone else doesn't. The Ameriglo fiber front is also dirt cheap to try with the Defoor rear.

What sort of front : rear ratio do you like BT? Do you like thin fronts or more middle of the road?


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[FrankinCA]

Three dot - Orange in front green rear, I purchased FBI contract sights based on Voodoo_man's review.

i do have one Glock 26 with Hackathorns though, but I feel the three dot works better for me.

[asme]

I find I shoot very well with ameriglo classic green front/yellow rear 3-dots. Took them through a police academy with low light quals, no complaints, easy to pick which glowy thing is the front sight, all is well

[Amurr]

I dot the I with a circle over a line. I actually like xs big dot but I seem to be the only one these days. This argument is one of the reasons I like them. Less clutter than 3 dots. More vertical feedback than 1 or 2 dot systems. Also if you have ever shot something like a straight 8 I have always found the top of the sight blades will work to help vertical sight alignment

[psalms144.1]

My favorite sight combination right now if the Ameriglo Pro Glo square front combined with the Operator rear with amber lamps. Unfortunately, the Operators are no longer produced. I hadn't heard the Spartans rear was similar...

My bad, just looked at Ameriglo again, and they're now listing Operators again. Spartans are wide-notch rear.

[Robinson]

I've used 3 dot, 2 dot, plain black rear, etc... My favorite for normal light conditions is actually a gold bead front with black u-notch rear. However for my carry gun and HD gun I've standardized on 3 dot and I've decided they work just fine. I don't have the problem many describe with 3 dot sights being too "busy". It think it's a really personal thing and there is no one best answer for everyone.

[OnionsAndDragons]

My favorite sight combination right now if the Ameriglo Pro Glo square front combined with the Operator rear with amber lamps. Unfortunately, the Operators are no longer produced. I hadn't heard the Spartans rear was similar...

My bad, just looked at Ameriglo again, and they're now listing Operators again. Spartans are wide-notch rear.

Maybe we have the same eye genetics...

I would always take the Op rears over them because I've come it like the tight picture, but I mentioned the Spartan being similar lamp wise due to also thinking the Ops were out of production.

Maybe enough of us whined about it that Ameriglo heard it.


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[M2CattleCo]

Yellow rear, green front has always been my favorite night sight. I never got along with two dots, they seemed too vague and slow for me.

[FrankinCA]

Yellow rear, green front has always been my favorite night sight. I never got along with two dots, they seemed too vague and slow for me.

M2, are you still EDC'ing a Sig P239? I remember your posts on 1911 and other forums. Thanks

[M2CattleCo]

M2, are you still EDC'ing a Sig P239? I remember your posts on 1911 and other forums. Thanks

No sir. After a lot of time and shooting I moved away from the 239/226 to a Glock 43/34.

[FrankinCA]

Thanks. I'm starting to rethink carry. Possibly go all Glock as well.

[BillSWPA]

Three dots is the only combination that shows both vertical and horizontal sight alignment.

I have used sights with all green dots, as well as sights with slightly dimmer yellow rear sights. I have noticed no difference, and am currently using all green.

I would be sure that whatever sights you buy use Trijicon inserts, since I have found them to last longer than those from other makers. I have had good luck with Trijicon Bright & Tough, Dawson Carry, and Novak.

[CCT125US]

Three dots is the only combination that shows both vertical and horizontal sight alignment.

This is my opinion as well. I like the idea of 2 dot, but in practice they fall short for me.

[breakingtime91]

looking hard at two sets of the operators, whats the consensus on orange or yellow?

[Gio]

looking hard at two sets of the operators, whats the consensus on orange or yellow?

I like having some contrast between the front and rear sights if possible (i.e. green front/orange or yellow rear), but you can always create your own contrast with a red sharpie.

[spinmove_]

I like having some contrast between the front and rear sights if possible (i.e. green front/orange or yellow rear), but you can always create your own contrast with a red sharpie.

I found hitting the rear lamps with a red sharpie really didn't change the color of them for me, just made them darker. I'd personally probably go with yellow rears if I were to do it again as I've heard the yellow tritium will last longer than orange.


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[LSP552]

I think the important thing with 3 dot night sights is to have NO outline on the rear. That way you get a normal sight picture in the daylight and have both vertical and horizontal references at night. I like yellow rear and green front tubes. All of my Glocks now wear Ameriglo ProGlo fronts (green tritium and orange outline) and Pro Operator rears (yellow).

[EVP]

My favorite sight combination right now if the Ameriglo Pro Glo square front combined with the Operator rear with amber lamps. Unfortunately, the Operators are no longer produced. I hadn't heard the Spartans rear was similar...

My bad, just looked at Ameriglo again, and they're now listing Operators again. Spartans are wide-notch rear.


I don't see standard operators with amber vials only green. I was under the impression that they stopped making the operators with amber vials.

[psalms144.1]

I don't see standard operators with amber vials only green. I was under the impression that they stopped making the operators with amber vials.Well, poop. Thanks for the downer, dude... ;)