Wad injuries?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

From a discussion elsewhere on hostage rescue shots. Of course, we know that the 12 gauge with buckshot is the ultimate stopper for home defense. But in class or matches, we tried hostage shots to peel off the bad guy with pellets. Yes, you should pattern your gun, etc. I know all that and know that this is quite a risky and maybe fantasy question. My question is that in such exercises, I see the wad make a nice big hole in the cardboard target at not trivial distances. A casual google brought up some picture of nasty injuries from such. Peeling off the bad guy and placing the wad in the face of the poor hostage seems nasty.

So have we discussed this or do folks have some info? I'm curious and I don't regard this type of shot with a shotgun as a primary plan for me (so no lectures, please!).

[GJM]

Brenneke slugs, with an attached wad, solve this issue for slugs.

[41magfan]

I've seen wads and/or shot cups embedded in wound channels when the engagement distance was very close and I've seen superficial marks on bodies from wad/shot cup impact as well.

In and of itself, I'm sure it wouldn't feel good to be struck by these components and it certainly has the potential to take out at eye or something, but being injured from a wad/shot cup impact was an irrelevant factor to 100% of the victims I've seen shot with a shotgun ........ the payload is what caused them grief.

So, in the little world of my personal experience, that's a fantasy question. YMMV

[Edster]

Using buckshot, I'm not sure the problem you describe has a solution. As tight as Flitecontrol patterns may be, there's still a hunk of plastic traveling over 1000 fps that winds up in a completely uncontrollable location.

I can't remember the source but I recall reading the shotgun should be thought of as a barricade weapon -- good guys on one side, bad guys on the other.

I do agree with GJM with regard to Brenneke slugs. I have been impressed with the accuracy and ease of control with the THD slugs.

[DocGKR]

I know of a west coast LE precision marksman that has successfully deployed a 12 ga. w/Brenneke slugs as a sniper weapon on several occasions....

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I was just asking for the fantasy guys who say : 12 Gauge - Nuff Said! My home long gun in the zombie fantasy is my AR, anyway. Thanks. :rolleyes:

[Tabasco]

FWIW,

Been using a thin sheet of plywood for patterning as it was left in the rain and need something to do with it. One benefit I discovered was that the wad does not penetrate so I have no doubt about my actual pattern. Sometimes Flite Control wads hit so close to the pattern on card board, it's hard to tell what's what.

[Unobtanium]

I know of a west coast LE precision marksman that has successfully deployed a 12 ga. w/Brenneke slugs as a sniper weapon on several occasions....

Can you more detailed describe? Distance/headshot required or not, etc? Obviously you can't share specific specifics, but I would like to know more, to the extent you can share, such as..."why was a PM using a shotgun..." etc

[David S.]

ETA: ^^^^^ Yeah, what he said. ^^^^^^

At what distance does your wad separate? I seem to recall at typical home defense ranges (<10-15yards?) wad separation isn't too much of a concern with quality ammo.

Preemptively:

18632

[Tabasco]

ETA: ^^^^^ Yeah, what he said. ^^^^^^

At what distance does your wad separate? I seem to recall at typical home defense ranges (<10-15yards?) wad separation isn't too much of a concern with quality ammo.

Preemptively:

18632

If it's any help; when patterning Flite Control at 15 yards, the wad usually impacts the targer 2"-3" away from the pattern, sideways.

[Jason M]

Since wads and shot cups go where they will, the Brenneke slug GJM mentioned, is the best call for the scenario you mentioned. If you carry buckshot as the standard, having a space for one shell in your mag tube and having a slug or two on the gun coupled with mastery of the select slug skill will enable you to change ammo quickly.

[DocGKR]

The Brenneke slugs had the wad attached. All shots were under 40 yds. All shots involved a glass barrier. Of the tools available, Brenneke slug was most likely to defeat glass barrier and retain original trajectory without deviation, allowing a successful shot.

[Unobtanium]

The Brenneke slugs had the wad attached. All shots were under 40 yds. All shots involved a glass barrier. Of the tools available, Brenneke slug was most likely to defeat glass barrier and retain original trajectory without deviation, allowing a successful shot.

Roger that, makes sense.

From trauma doc's perspective, which would you find the hardest to fix (assuming all missed the pump-house and simply hit other items in the thoracic cavity, by some miracle) Gold Dot .223, 00B, or Remington (or whatever) Foster slug (did not frag, just expanded violently).

Also, is the "Segmented Slug" Winchester is now loading in the Ranger line "A thing", or just a fad/gimmick?