British cops asked if they want to carry guns

[holmes168]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/27/police-asked-want-carry-guns/

There's a pretty novel concept

[Mjolnir]

I can't imagine any saying, "no thanks".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[voodoo_man]

Once that whole bit is over, every officer will have a firearm, or two and UK's police will be the most armed in the world. Especially given the terrorism aspect they have to deal with consistently.

[Peally]

I can't imagine any saying, "no thanks".

Plenty will. The survey looks public too, so I expect everyone and their mother that visits that site will say it's the sign of the end times.

Daily acid attacks, beheadings, pedestrian bowling... those are fine though. Stiff (moronic, ineffective) upper lip and all that.

[okie john]

I know that they already have some armed police and thus some policies on UOF rules, de-escalation, and training, but it will be interesting to watch them expand that to cover the entire force and then manage public opinion. Do officers get to take their weapons home at the end of the night, for example...


Okie John

[voodoo_man]

I know that they already have some armed police and thus some policies on UOF rules, de-escalation, and training, but it will be interesting to watch them expand that to cover the entire force and then manage public opinion. Do officers get to take their weapons home at the end of the night, for example...


Okie John

I'm sure the good idea fairy will come by and make her presence known....

[okie john]

I'm sure the good idea fairy will come by and make her presence known....

Undoubtedly.

I'd love to see Pat McNamara, Ken Hackathorn, Larry Vickers, and several other folks like that get in on the action.


Okie John

[blues]

It's funny how the terrorist groups which want to live according to stone age principles and mores are the ones that have adopted more modern methods of warfare...while the average UK officer goes about with a whistle and a truncheon.

Something not quite right with that picture, imho. It's time to arise from your slumber, Blighty, and give them what for!

[Trooper224]

Some officers who are already authorized to carry firearms in certain areas choose not to, due to reasons of liability. While similar to our legal system, the British system doesn't have a double jeopardy limitation. If, you're an officer facing charges and the political powers don't like the outcome, you can be repeatedly charged until the government gets the verdict it desires. Some ten or fifteen years ago, I recall that happening to an officer who'd shot a juvenile with a weapon. He was acquitted on the first go-round, but due to the backlash of nanny state public outrage, he was retried two more times until the "right" verdict was reached. Many officers would rather take their chances on the street than face that kind of outcome. They've conducted these "surveys" before and I have no doubt the results will be predictable. Every English copper I've ever talked to wanted to carry a gun, but none of them would ever admit it in public.

[TGS]

Some officers who are already authorized to carry firearms in certain areas choose not to, due to reasons of liability. While similar to our legal system, the British system doesn't have a double jeopardy limitation. If, you're an officer facing charges and the political powers don't like the outcome, you can be repeatedly charged until the government gets the verdict it desires. Some ten or fifteen years ago, I recall that happening to an officer who'd shot a juvenile with a weapon. He was acquitted on the first go-round, but due to the backlash of nanny state public outrage, he was retried two more times until the "right" verdict was reached. Many officers would rather take their chances on the street than face that kind of outcome. They've conducted these "surveys" before and I have no doubt the results will be predictable. Every English copper I've ever talked to wanted to carry a gun, but none of them would ever admit it in public.

Know anything about how they judge use of force? I.e., do they use a reasonable man standard, anything similar to our Graham factors, and most importantly do they allow 20/20 hindsight?

[Trooper224]

Know anything about how they judge use of force? I.e., do they use a reasonable man standard, anything similar to our Graham factors, and most importantly do they allow 20/20 hindsight?

I'm afraid I'm not knowledgeable enough on the subject to feel comfortable commenting on the finer points. I do know the biggest fundamental difference between our systems of justice is theirs has no "innocent until proven guilty" foundation, the exact opposite in fact. Your guilt is presumed by the state and it's up to your legal representation to prove otherwise. In the civilian context, if the victim uses force in defense of themselves or others they're considered as guilty as the aggressor. Imagine the "zero tolerance" policies of our public schools taken to the national level. I don't know if that transfers over to law enforcement. It's a country incredibly rich in history, but with a legal system I wouldn't want to contend with.

[MPG]

Know anything about how they judge use of force? I.e., do they use a reasonable man standard, anything similar to our Graham factors, and most importantly do they allow 20/20 hindsight?

If you want some insight into the use of armed police in the U.K., I've found this book an interesting read: https://www.amazon.com/Lethal-Force-Life-Controversial-Marksman/dp/1785033956/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1501278801&sr=8-2&keywords=lethal+force+book

It was written by the officer referenced in the shooting Trooper224 mentioned earlier in the thread. More info on the shooting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azelle_Rodney

[Trooper224]

For a number of years I worked with a county deputy who was an English transplant. The stories he told about their system would make your jaw drop. Think you have the deck stacked against you as a cop in the US? We almost have free reign compared to our UK brothers and sisters. How far they've fallen from an empire on which the sun never set, to the nanny state they are now is amazing.

[Trooper224]

If you want some insight into the use of armed police in the U.K., I've found this book an interesting read: https://www.amazon.com/Lethal-Force-Life-Controversial-Marksman/dp/1785033956/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1501278801&sr=8-2&keywords=lethal+force+book

It was written by the officer referenced in the shooting Trooper224 mentioned earlier in the thread. More info on the shooting here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Azelle_Rodney

That isn't the one I was thinking of. This one involved the shooting of an unhinged juvenile with a knife, who had stabbed his mother. The officer involved fell victim to local magistrates with an agenda and was tried and retried three times over a period of eight or nine years until the desired verdict was obtained.

[Mjolnir]

It's already a police state.

Now it will be overtly so.

Facial recognition cameras LITERALLY all over the place; traffic cameras all over the place; no written constitution - it's whatever it's interpreted to be (like we are fast becoming).

What's not to like?

And I say that because the elite are the ones who brought in the disaffected yet they are never targeted, just the common man.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[secondstoryguy]

I'm sure if they broad spectrum issued handguns the holsters and stuff that they would add to the guns(like Taser's new draw activation camera switch) would be giggle worthy.