SERPA banned at FLETC

[F-Trooper05]

This post is originally from an email that Pyro at Lightfighter recieved...

http://lightfighter.net/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1931084651/m/86120086563/p/3



Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 11:24 AM
Subject: Fw: ADVISORY Blackhawk SERPA Holster



FYI - FLETC and many OIGs have discontinued the use of the Blackhawk SERPA



Subject: FW: Officer Safety Bulletin: Blackhawk SERPA Auto Lock System Holster

A CITP student accidentally discharged his weapon into his thigh at FLETC/Glynco last week. He had purchased a Blackhawk SERPA Auto Lock System holster and was using it for the first time. In October of this year, an agent shot himself in the buttocks during a staff qualification at FLETC Cheltenham using a Blackhawk SERPA. USAF OSI has prohibited their personnel from purchasing or carrying this holster.

The below notice was disseminated last week to all 1811s in HHS OIG, and they have given me permission to share it with the IG community's 1811 population.




SPECIAL BULLETIN
National Training and Emergency Operations Branch
Officer Safety Bulletin



Good Afternoon,

In our efforts to continually stay abreast of issues relating to officer safety, the National Training and Emergency Operations Branch (NTEOB) routinely evaluates the law enforcement equipment issued to or carried by OI personnel.

Recently, one such piece of equipment, the Blackhawk SERPA Auto Lock System holster, has come under scrutiny due to safety concerns involving the design of its retention safety device. There have been several recent documented cases, involving law enforcement and civilian personnel, where unintentional discharges have occurred while weapons were being drawn from this holster. Many of these unintentional discharges have resulted in gunshot injuries to the officers/agents involved.

The SERPA is one of the only holster system designed to use the trigger finger to release the retention safety device. This method of releasing the safety device is contrary to our training methods and techniques, which emphasize attacking the holster from the "top down." In addition, this retention system is completely different from the standard thumb-break holsters currently issued by OI. While it is true that one of the Cardinal Rules of firearms safety was violated by the individual placing his or her finger on the trigger before they were ready to shoot, we believe that the design of the SERPA holster facilitates this action by engaging the trigger finger well before the individual is prepared to shoot.

In light of these events and in accordance with OI policy, specifically Part 2, Section 2, Subsection IV B, NTEOB is suspending all use of the Blackhawk SERPA Auto Lock System holster by OI agents acting in an official, on-duty capacity. NTEOB will thoroughly research and evaluate the safety and effectiveness of this holster system and report on its findings.

In the meantime, those agents who may be affected by this safety bulletin should be directed to utilize their standard agency-issued holster to secure their weapon on their person. As a reminder, new standard issue holsters were previously issued to all OI 1811s. This is the recommended holster system. Should agents wish to purchase a holster, they should be informed that all holsters have to be approved by National Firearms Coordinator/NTEOB, as per policy.

Thank you in advance for your assistance and cooperation.

Thank you.

[JodyH]

Excellent news.
Does this apply to the CBP FLETC as well?
I hope so, the USBP Agents deserve better.

[Suvorov]

I recently visited my friend up in Burlington who is with the BP up there. We had the SERPA discussion when I learned that was what he was issued. I'll have to ask him if this ban will be heading down the food chain.

[JodyH]

I recently visited my friend up in Burlington who is with the BP up there. We had the SERPA discussion when I learned that was what he was issued. I'll have to ask him if this ban will be heading down the food chain.
I shoot 3-gun with a lot of the FLETC Artesia USBP instructors and they are issued SERPA's.
I hope that's changed because their holsters were falling apart in matches.

[ToddG]

I hope that's changed because their holsters were falling apart in matches.

That's just a training issue. :cool:

[jlw]

They were banned at GPTSC until someone with enough juice got the Director to order the head firearms instructor to lift the ban.

[skyshark]

The Army has been buying these in droves the last few years and I had one forced on me while I was in Iraq 06-08 (after I spent about a hundred bucks of my own money to buy a 6004). I wish we would stop it. At the time, carrying an on-safe M9, I never thought much about the safety issue, but it makes sense to me now. I just hated the things because they broke all the time, and I don't do anything too sexy that would test the limits of it. The retention lock fell out from many of our holsters while one drop leg model broke completly off its mount. Blackhawk's marketing department does an excellent job of promoting this sub-standard piece of gear.

[Joe in PNG]

Blackhawk's marketing department does an excellent job of promoting this sub-standard piece of gear.

I think it's the ! in the BLACKHAWK! that does it.

[saints75]

"Blackhawk's marketing department does an excellent job of promoting this sub-standard piece of gear."

I think they do too. A few years ago I was watching a Shot Show Vid and the guy was at the Blackhawk (BH) both doing a gear review. The Blackhawk rep was pretty good at talking to the guy. Especailly when the guy told him how much he thought the Knox Stock sucked. The BH Rep turned it into a positive. It was a good both review. Yea, the BH rep really did a good job selling that stuff. They do a good job of selling stuff and it is cheap.

[Suvorov]

I could honestly understand the desire of a lot of LEO agencies and the military to jump on the SERPA holster for its attributes IF the Safariland ALS did not exist. But why anyone would ever choose the SERPA over the ALS is beyond me???

[saints75]

I could honestly understand the desire of a lot of LEO agencies and the military to jump on the SERPA holster for its attributes IF the Safariland ALS did not exist. But why anyone would ever choose the SERPA over the ALS is beyond me???

It's Blackhawk! It sounds cool and sounds tactical. As a formal Serpa owner that is what attracted me to the Serpa. After educating myself on shooting and gear, I realized that it was cheap and I could shot myself in the leg. Now that I am educated on the Serpa, I got myself an ALS. It is so much better then the Serpa. A lot of the Blackhawk stuff is crap. I carry the Serpa Taser holster. It is quick to deploy and the bad guys can take it out with a few twist and turns. This is not suppose to happen. The Blade Tech and the Safariland Taser holsters do not do that. They are more sold holsters and keeps the Taser very secure. I can not believe that a company that makes public safety equipment will make something like that. If I can help it, I will never use Blackhawk! products again. I have seen the same type of equipment they make from other companies that seem better quality. I am saving up for a Blade Tech Taser holster and throwing the Serpa Taser holster away.

Sorry for the rant.

[NickDrak]

I dont doubt the validity of the release posted here, but is there an official release from the origin agency that I can send up my chain of command?

[F-Trooper05]

I dont doubt the validity of the release posted here, but is there an official release from the origin agency that I can send up my chain of command?

If you have a Lightfighter account send PYRO (in the link I provided) a PM and he can forward you the original email he received.

[NickDrak]

If you have a Lightfighter account send PYRO (in the link I provided) a PM and he can forward you the original email he received.

Did you or anyone else you know actually receive the original? According to his last post in that thread he cannot find the original email he received.

Trust me, I have no issue advising AGAINST the SERPA because in my opinion it is indeed a complete piece of crap, but until the original source of this info memo/email is confirmed I cant put any faith in this report.

[F-Trooper05]

I just PM'd him. Hopefully it's not BS or I'll feel like a shithead for posting this.

ETA: He sent me a copy of the email, but he didn't include any of the original senders information, so it's basically just what I posted above. PM me and I'll forward you his contact info if you want to get directly in touch with him for follow up questions.

[jstyer]

I don't know what it is about Blackhawk...

I work at one of the country's biggest firearms retailers and people flock to Blackhawk in droves! I'm not sure what pixie dust they're putting into their plastic, but shooters around here (West Texas) can't get enough of them. Regardless of how often I try to point out the inherent safety issues I pretty much always get a shoulder shrug and a "Nah, it won't happen to me."

[gryphon]

why anyone would ever choose the SERPA over the ALS is beyond me???
ALS isn't available for all pistols. For example, Safariland doesn't make an ALS for the Five-seveN.

[jlw]

ALS isn't available for all pistols. For example, Safariland doesn't make an ALS for the Five-seveN.


That's probably because they are wondering why anyone would choose a Five-seveN...

[joshs]

ALS isn't available for all pistols. For example, Safariland doesn't make an ALS for the Five-seveN.

I didn't know that they generally made duty holsters for .22 magnums. ;)

[jmjames]

I bought a Blackhawk! cheek rest for a rifle. After my experience with it, I immediately knew to avoid the rest of their products. It was made of nylon and had no grip material on the inside, so it slipped all over the place and was just as likely to be on the side or the bottom of the stock as the top...

As others have said, they must have a magic marketing department...

J.Ja

[ToddG]

ALS isn't available for all pistols. For example, Safariland doesn't make an ALS for the Five-seveN.

Yet another reason to prefer Safariland...

[agent-smith]

Yet another reason to prefer Safariland...

:)

[NickDrak]

I just PM'd him. Hopefully it's not BS or I'll feel like a shithead for posting this.

ETA: He sent me a copy of the email, but he didn't include any of the original senders information, so it's basically just what I posted above. PM me and I'll forward you his contact info if you want to get directly in touch with him for follow up questions.

As much as I despise the SERPA holster I still consider this info nothing more than an unconfirmed rumor until we can track down the origin and validity of this safety warning/ban.

I have requested the origin from "Pyro" on LightFighter, but if he sends me the same thing that you received from him, that will do nothing in-terms of confirming this info.

If anyone else out there has the abilty to confirm the origin of this warning, PLEASE bring it to light. I would like to forward this info up the chain of command at my department if confirmed....

[Chuck Haggard]

I have confirmed this incident through a contact at FLETC.

[ToddG]

And fwiw, I know the person tpd223 confirmed it through and can vouch.

[TCinVA]

You can't get away with faking those sorts of claims on LF or, frankly, here. Too many people know too many people.


I'm not sure what pixie dust they're putting into their plastic, but shooters around here (West Texas) can't get enough of them.

Aggressive marketing and an unsophisticated customer base are all you need. It's not a flaw, it's a feature!

[jlw]

I contacted a FLETC firearms instructor that I know, and to his knowledge, there have been no holster bans. I responded back with the the text of the purported email. I will report back what he tells me.

[NickDrak]

I hear ya guys, and I have no doubt it is a valid memo. I am in no way suggesting anyone fabricated it, but until I can get it from an official/confirmed source from the origin agency it doesnt do me any good.

[Kyle Reese]

I don't know what it is about Blackhawk...

I work at one of the country's biggest firearms retailers and people flock to Blackhawk in droves! I'm not sure what pixie dust they're putting into their plastic, but shooters around here (West Texas) can't get enough of them. Regardless of how often I try to point out the inherent safety issues I pretty much always get a shoulder shrug and a "Nah, it won't happen to me."

People never think bad things will happen to them, right until reality hits them in the face.

[SweetScienceOfShooting]

I have no personal contacts at FLETC or in HHS OIG but my take on it is this:

The Special Bulletin in the bottom of the email received by PYRO appears to have been issued by the national office of HHS OIG to suspend the use of the Blackhawk SERPA by their personnel when in an official, on-duty capacity. From the text of the memo, this action was based on several documented cases of ND’s by LEO’s and civilian personnel using the holster. No mention is made of ND’s occurring with HHS OIG agents so I presume it is based on incidents occurring outside the agency.

NickDrak – since this memo was issued internally for HHS OIG personnel, I am not sure if the agency will make an “official” statement available for the outside. You might have some luck working your network to get a copy from someone within HHS OIG.

The middle part of the email received by PYRO, below the 2nd subject line, mentions two ND’s occurring during use of the SERPA, one by a FLETC student and one by a member of FLETC staff. No wholesale ban of the holster by or at FLETC is mentioned. It goes on to mention USAF OIS as an agency that has prohibited the SERPA.

Now on to the top part of the email received by PYRO:

It looks like some here personally know people that can confirm the ND’s at FLETC. However, I think that the sender of the email to PYRO may have overreached and concluded with the two FLETC ND’s and the bans by USAF OSI and HHS OIG that a ban was in effect for the entire FLETC. This fits in with the info from post #27 by jlweems that a FLETC instructor reported no holster bans.

IMHO there would be some difficulty for FLETC to completely ban the SERPA in their programs since dozens of agencies send students there. Even if FLETC banned the SERPA, things could be completely different after a student graduated and reported to their home agency. IME it is pretty common for sponsoring agencies to have policies and programs that differ from what is taught at FLETC.

Like others on the thread, I am interested to hear what comes back from anyone that has direct contacts at FLETC.

[Madnik]

I checked with FLETC sources. Some programs have apparently banned the SERPA line, others have not, and FLETC has the matter under review. If FLETC bans the SERPA line, look for agencies to begin to do so.

[MattInFla]

Aggressive marketing and an unsophisticated customer base are all you need. It's not a flaw, it's a feature!

It is a feature. It lets the bad guy know you are no one to be trifled with. If you're willing to shoot yourself to start the engagement, imagine what you're willing to do to the bad guy. :)