I've Never Seen a K9 Handler Do This

[Chance]

Is this a valid tactic, or is the guy just showing off? Really cool video one way or the other.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8buMPTKCto0

[Peally]

My dog does that automatically when we're in the vet's office.

[TAZ]

My dog does that automatically when we're in the vet's office.

Lol. Mine used to do that as well. Along with go prone and pretend they were invisible. That dog REALLY hated linoleum floors. As soon as all 4 paws were on something slippery she'd drop. Funny and sad at the same time. Not fun to pick up a 100# dog that's a limp noodle.

WRT the video. I'm not sure I'd like to have a barking dog between my legs in a potentially physical confrontation.

[Totem Polar]

I'm not sure I'd like to have a barking dog between my legs in a potentially physical confrontation.

On the other hand, nobody's going to pull guard on you, ever. :D


The training looks useful for keeping the dog behind cover and out of lines of fire when doing clearing. I'm no dog handler, though.

[RoyGBiv]

I'd be afraid of losing some important parts in the heat of the moment.

[Coyotesfan97]

That's a trainer showing off with a sporting dog. That has no tactical value. I know of no K-9 unit that trains or does that. There are elements that we do like kneeling and calling the dog to you. Training a dog to be neutral to gunfire is great having the dog between your legs when you're shooting not so much.

I don't know the guy but I'm betting that's a sport dog vs a police dog. Transporting a decoy, walking with the dog heeling with your hand on his shoulder, with no suit on the decoy or a muzzle on a dog like that is crazy. Then yelling at and shoving the decoy away from you is nuts too. A street dog is biting that guy!

[Dagga Boy]

That's a trainer showing off with a sporting dog. That has no tactical value. I know of no K-9 unit that trains or does that. There are elements that we do like kneeling and calling the dog to you. Training a dog to be neutral to gunfire is great having the dog between your legs when you're shooting not so much.

I don't know the guy but I'm betting that's a sport dog vs a police dog. Transporting a decoy, walking with the dog heeling with your hand on his shoulder, with no suit on the decoy or a muzzle on a dog like that is crazy. Then yelling at and shoving the decoy away from you is nuts too. A street dog is biting that guy!

This. Great video and I enjoyed it. With that said, I spent many years of my life as an agitator and was a cover officer requested by our K9's on thousands of searches. When I first started we had one dog that was basically our competition dog and one of the "top" dogs in the world in Polic K9 competitions. It was the "cleanest" dog I have ever worked with. As a street dog.....pussycat compared to our non competing "dirty" dogs. The clean dog was very easy to work with as an agitator. Our other dogs....you better be switched on as an agitator. When it came to hunting humans....our "top" dog was the last one I ever wanted to be on a search with or dealing with a chaotic street scenario.
From a training standpoint...the guy is obviously an awesome trainer. Like Coyote said.....a non suited up agitator touching the handler of one of our bad ass street dogs with tons of live operational bites was an total no go......you were getting bit, and an attack on a handler was not going to be an easy "out" either.

[41magfan]

That video reminds me of some of the dubious practices I often see in firearms training. The obedience and subsequent control of the dog is simply a means to an end; not the end itself.

[GuanoLoco]

French Ring - competition training. Lots of videos and info.

[NEPAKevin]

I'd be afraid of losing some important parts in the heat of the moment.

Danger Close/Head Butt Balls range.

[RJ]

FWIW: The Dog Unit van has a U.K. Registration plate with an Area Code 'BK', which equates to Birmingham, a large industrial north central Metro area in England. The Age Identifier '08' equates to a 2008/2009 vehicle.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_registration_plates_of_the_United_Kingdom

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170720/a3f72f7db5d25ac449b362f9c79e5ccb.jpg

[Coyotesfan97]

That video reminds me of some of the dubious practices I often see in firearms training. The obedience and subsequent control of the dog is simply a means to an end; not the end itself.

Exactly. I look at this and say that dog is crazy obedient and the control work is awesome.

[Coyotesfan97]

French Ring - competition training. Lots of videos and info.

Ring sports are fun to watch and the dogs are push button obedient. They're leg biters too which people don't expect. If you gave a ring sport dog the decoys have to be told/warned.

KNPV is the best sport for police dogs. We get titled PH1 dogs. The transition from sport to the street is very easy for them.

[Coyotesfan97]

This. Great video and I enjoyed it. With that said, I spent many years of my life as an agitator and was a cover officer requested by our K9's on thousands of searches. When I first started we had one dog that was basically our competition dog and one of the "top" dogs in the world in Polic K9 competitions. It was the "cleanest" dog I have ever worked with. As a street dog.....pussycat compared to our non competing "dirty" dogs. The clean dog was very easy to work with as an agitator. Our other dogs....you better be switched on as an agitator. When it came to hunting humans....our "top" dog was the last one I ever wanted to be on a search with or dealing with a chaotic street scenario.
From a training standpoint...the guy is obviously an awesome trainer. Like Coyote said.....a non suited up agitator touching the handler of one of our bad ass street dogs with tons of live operational bites was an total no go......you were getting bit, and an attack on a handler was not going to be an easy "out" either.

There are several agencies that do that. Their cleanest sporty dogs are the competition dog and they're the ones that travel regionally. It really sucks competing against them and soft GSDs.

The dogs are the cleanest/most obedient off the plane from Holland. Then for us they get six weeks of a patrol school exposing them to our environment and teaching them building searches. Then they start working the street and once it clicks and they get their first real bite it's game on. Once they understand they can bite humans they're a different animal.

As a Handler you have to understand that. If you let a dog with street experience get close to a suspect they'll bite them. Leash control and understanding your dog is critical. I worked a dog, and I've seen others do it, that would show you behavior changes that indicated they have odor, pull you to the area, but when they got close to the suspect they would act like they had nothing. Give them extra leash and they'd dive in and get a bite. Pull them back and they'd alert. Unintended bites are a bad thing.

I really like having guys like Dagga Boy as cover. They've worked around the dogs. They're not scared of them but understand they have to be careful around them. They really are covering you and stick with you wherever you go. We have some patrol guys who are like that and most want to go to K9 in the future. SWAT guys are awesome cover Officers.

[Dagga Boy]

The biggest thing as a designated cover guy for the dog searches was because I spent so much time agitating I was not watching the dog....I was watching what the handler wasn't. Just knowing how the dogs search allowed me to locate several felons before the dog. The dog had their scent but were still working a pattern to narrow it. Most of the time you are searching for armed violent felons, so getting them lit up and with a 12ga. Covering the bad guy endeared me to the dog guys. I was on over 30 bites with our first Malanois alone, which equated to hundreds of searches with one of many K9's. Like anything else you learn a ton with experience......like not jumping in, knowing when to talk and when not to. A couple of times I ended up saving some dogs from getting killed or injured by having a very good understanding of when things were very wrong. Those are all nuances most outside the K9 world will not ever understand.
We found huge success with having good disciplined search teams and a rock solid relationship between our K9 handlers and aviation guys. It is a mass effort that pays off with lots of serious felons being arrested.

[Coyotesfan97]

This^^. One of the biggest faults Officers that don't do a lot of searches with us is A they watch the dog B they don't stay with the Handler. B means I'm not covered and they're looking into stuff the dog should be sniffing.

I tell guys about Bodie who was a CA K9 who was shot lifting a garbage can lid with his nose. If he was an Officer lifting the lid you'd have a dead Officer. Bodie survived and returned to work IIRC but he was credited with saving the life of his handler and the search team. I tell guys if you see something you wanted checked tell me and if you search away from me and find the suspect instead of the dog you owe us beer!

I search a pattern based on the way the wind is blowing. I'm looking to put the dog's nose into the scent cone. I might move to an area where the wind is blowing instead of going to a shed. The wind will blow odor to us. I don't necessarily have to be on top of a hiding place to find someone. The inexperienced guys won't follow me but go search that shed. It's drives handlers nuts!

It's definitely a team sport from the dog team and cover to the helicopter to the patrol guys on perimeter. I alway tell the perimeter guys they are the offensive line protecting the QB. The QB gets a lot of the glory but he's not doing anything without their protection. If you don't have a good perimeter set up quickly you're usually not catching the suspect.

I've attended Jim Schonely's class twice. Once where he taught for K9 and once where he taught for aircrews. I have his book Apprehending Fleeing Suspects. He was a Handler for five years and has been a long term pilot/TFO for LAPD. If I was chief that book would be issued in the academy and he'd be a guest speaker.