Fixing shooting to the right- Left Handed shooter

[Bowman_15]

Hello Pistol-forum,

I've recently began to work on improving my shot. My group sizing is pretty large and needs improved but I have noticed that I'm consistently shooting to the right. What might I be doing wrong and how can I solve it?

Also can you recommend a few drills to improve my basic pistol shooting?

Thanks,
Bowman

[spinmove_]

Welcome to PF, Bowman. There are several threads in this sub forum that actually answer your question quite well. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the question, the answer could be a veritable myriad of fixes. My suggestion is to read through some of those threads first. The threads will also point you in the direction of some drills as well, but most drills around here help with improvement. For that I'd also check out the "Drill of the Week" section.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[RJ]

Welcome.

I'm pretty new to shooting, and a lefty as well.

My whole training journal is about shooting low and right:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?12492-Coach-why-do-I-shoot-low-and-right-(lefty)-training-journal

My thoughts after working on this for three or so years:

- Regular, effective, dry practice. Especially wall drills (focus on front sight, press through)

This thread is awesome:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?7708-Dry-Practice-Misconceptions-Updated-12-04-16

- "The Test" Drill: 10 rounds in 10 seconds at 10 yards on an NRA B8 target. Shoot for score and record progress. Initial goal: all 10 in the Black.

- Experiment with grip sizes and trigger finger placement.

Hint: At a recent class, I was told my finger was too close to the frame. As a result, I was steering the pistol down and right. I opened up a gap as suggested by my Instructor, and my accuracy and groups improved.

- Seek out good instruction. An instructor I highly recommend is Tom Givens. His two-day Combative Pistol Class was what I really could have used in 2014, when I was starting to shoot.

- Start a Training Journal and track your progress.

Good luck!

Rich

[GJM]

Hello Pistol-forum,

I've recently began to work on improving my shot. My group sizing is pretty large and needs improved but I have noticed that I'm consistently shooting to the right. What might I be doing wrong and how can I solve it?

Also can you recommend a few drills to improve my basic pistol shooting?

Thanks,
Bowman

The single most important thing you can do is to immediately seek out high quality instruction, ideally in a tutorial setting. This will set you up with proper technique, and start you on your path to improvement. Alternatively you can spend years, and thousands of dollars on guns and ammunition, reinforcing bad habits, by learning to do it "for free" on the internet.

[OPSPEC]

Might I ask a question- Are we talking about a Glock?

[Bowman_15]

Might I ask a question- Are we talking about a Glock?

I'm using a M&P 9mm FS Gen 1.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll look into the suggestions and research some instructors near me for a class.

[RJ]

I'm using a M&P 9mm FS Gen 1.

I had one of those.

The Apex DCAEK was a vast improvement to the trigger.

[spinmove_]

I had one of those.

The Apex DCAEK was a vast improvement to the trigger.

For the record, that's not going to prevent the low-right shooting.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[RJ]

For the record, that's not going to prevent the low-right shooting.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

Really? I'd have thought so.

It's been quite some time since I shot my Gen 1 M&P, but before I sold it I put the OEM parts back in (sear and striker block). Man, that 8 lb press was brutal (Apex is what, 5.5 lbs?)

The profile of the Apex USB is (imho) vastly improved over the stock item. The OEM item always felt gritty and much less smooth than the Apex Block.

I guess I was thinking a 'better' trigger would help the OP. You're right, it won't fix fundamental issues, for sure.

[spinmove_]

Really? I'd have thought so.

It's been quite some time since I shot my Gen 1 M&P, but before I sold it I put the OEM parts back in (sear and striker block). Man, that 8 lb press was brutal (Apex is what, 5.5 lbs?)

The profile of the Apex USB is (imho) vastly improved over the stock item. The OEM item always felt gritty and much less smooth than the Apex Block.

I guess I was thinking a 'better' trigger would help the OP. You're right, it won't fix fundamental issues, for sure.

A better trigger will be easier to shoot, sure. But as you just stated, it's a bandaid fix masking the root cause.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[David S.]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll look into the suggestions and research some instructors near me for a class.

FWIW, I'm building a website to help people find good classes around the country. It's rough and I have a bunch more to add, but it might be a good place to start.

FirearmsTrainingHub.com (http://www.firearmstraininghub.com)

(I don't make any money with it (yet), so I hope nobody minds my blatant pimping.)

[HopetonBrown]

The Apex DCAEK was a vast improvement to the trigger.

I'd be really hesitant to suggest $93 aftermarket trigger doodads to someone who is still working on the basics of marksmanship. Way too many self-taught, beginner shooters think hardware is the solution, and I don't think we'd want to be perpetuate that train of thought here.

[lwt16]

My agency issued M&Ps first gen in 9mm for a while.

I pushed shots to the left and found that routine dry firing helped tremendously. I also found that experimenting with the backstraps and adding a Talon grip got my trigger finger placement where it needed to be. Shots soon centered after that.

My agency, instead of diagnosing problems with shooters, thought that there was an inherent design flaw in the gun as most shooters pushed shots left (righties) or right (southpaws). For me, it was my trigger finger pushing the entire pistol to the left juuuuuust ever so slightly at the shot break. Dry fire showed it plain as day as I would pick out a target in the distance and then break the shot. That front sight would jump just a little to the left.......showing me that it was me and not the gun.

I do it with Glocks too but have overcome it with dry fire. The little glocks (g42, g43) really bring out the weakness in my trigger action as the frames are smaller and I have large hands. I have to really concentrate to not throw rounds left with those models.

Regards.

[Bowman_15]

My agency issued M&Ps first gen in 9mm for a while.

I pushed shots to the left and found that routine dry firing helped tremendously. I also found that experimenting with the backstraps and adding a Talon grip got my trigger finger placement where it needed to be. Shots soon centered after that.

My agency, instead of diagnosing problems with shooters, thought that there was an inherent design flaw in the gun as most shooters pushed shots left (righties) or right (southpaws). For me, it was my trigger finger pushing the entire pistol to the left juuuuuust ever so slightly at the shot break. Dry fire showed it plain as day as I would pick out a target in the distance and then break the shot. That front sight would jump just a little to the left.......showing me that it was me and not the gun.

I do it with Glocks too but have overcome it with dry fire. The little glocks (g42, g43) really bring out the weakness in my trigger action as the frames are smaller and I have large hands. I have to really concentrate to not throw rounds left with those models.

Regards.

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.

On the note of trigger upgrades, I've actually thought about getting the kit from Apex. It wouldn't solve my issues but I feel there is something you be said for not starting behind the curve as well when trying to learn. I may still consider it.

I've looked at picking up some snap caps as well for dry fire practice. Are these beneficial?

I'm thinking strongly about a class. Any recommendations around Memphis TN/Jonesboro AR?

[GJM]

Randy Cain (Cumberland Tactics) or Tom Givens!

[RJ]

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it.

On the note of trigger upgrades, I've actually thought about getting the kit from Apex. It wouldn't solve my issues but I feel there is something you be said for not starting behind the curve as well when trying to learn. I may still consider it.

I've looked at picking up some snap caps as well for dry fire practice. Are these beneficial?

I'm thinking strongly about a class. Any recommendations around Memphis TN/Jonesboro AR?

I'm a believer in the Apex parts. In particular the Striker block.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170720/286c88cbee8d44e0c76c614653c4431f.jpg

The USB which comes with the D/CAEK fundamentally reduces the initial take up profile and removes the grit that eventually gets polished off the OEM part by firing.

The Sear trips at (IIRC) 5.5 lbs, vs. stock 8 lbs (again, if I recall right) so the press is much easier to manage.

The Apex parts addressed what most consider one of the major problems with the M&P FS9 Gen 1, the trigger (the other being accuracy).

I liked mine a lot, but I liked it much more with the Apex kit. If money was an issue I'd just get the USB, you'll notice right away.

I bought a set of Tipton snap caps in 2015. I don't use them much. I think I tried a few mixed in some magazines, but I could not self diagnose my problem to say they helped.

Regular dry practice can help a lot more.

Good for trying to find an instructor. It really is probably the quickest way to diagnose things you are doing wrong. If I was made of money I'd have done that earlier myself, but I'm retired and have lots of time and like to figure things out for myself.

[Bowman_15]

I'm a believer in the Apex parts. In particular the Striker block.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170720/286c88cbee8d44e0c76c614653c4431f.jpg

The USB which comes with the D/CAEK fundamentally reduces the initial take up profile and removes the grit that eventually gets polished off the OEM part by firing.

The Sear trips at (IIRC) 5.5 lbs, vs. stock 8 lbs (again, if I recall right) so the press is much easier to manage.

The Apex parts addressed what most consider one of the major problems with the M&P FS9 Gen 1, the trigger (the other being accuracy).

I liked mine a lot, but I liked it much more with the Apex kit. If money was an issue I'd just get the USB, you'll notice right away.

I bought a set of Tipton snap caps in 2015. I don't use them much. I think I tried a few mixed in some magazines, but I could not self diagnose my problem to say they helped.

Regular dry practice can help a lot more.

Good for trying to find an instructor. It really is probably the quickest way to diagnose things you are doing wrong. If I was made of money I'd have done that earlier myself, but I'm retired and have lots of time and like to figure things out for myself.

Money is definitely tight currently. I'm beginning my second year of medical school so training budget/time is tight. Trying to maximize my efforts. ☺

Thanks for the equipment suggestion. This site has been great to me for helping with equipment choices. I've been lucky enough to avoid the drawer full of holsters and extra gear lol.

GJM, thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into both. Quickly looking at Tom's site though no basic classes seem to be on the schedule.

[David S.]

This may or may not help because my trainers don't have much in your immediate area for through the end of the year. Ironically, Tom Givens (see GJM's post above) just moved away the Memphis area about a year ago. You might contact Tom Givens to see if he can recommend anyone local. I'm sure he'd be happy to help.

September 2: Contextual Handgun - Armed Parent/Guardian (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/contextual-handgun-the-armed-parentguardian-tickets-31701192119) with Melody Lauer and John Johnston. Little Rock area. Day one afternoon is general live fire fundamentals that's not specific to being a Armed Parent/ Guardian.

Sept 9-10: Massad Ayoob Group: MAG-20 Live Fire (http://massadayoobgroup.com/schedule/). Centerton, AR (NW AR).

Sept 9-10: Combative Pistol: (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/combative-pistol-new-orleans-tickets-29341134122) Rangemaster (Tom Givens): New Orleans, LA

[RJ]

Money is definitely tight currently. I'm beginning my second year of medical school so training budget/time is tight. Trying to maximize my efforts. ☺

Thanks for the equipment suggestion. This site has been great to me for helping with equipment choices. I've been lucky enough to avoid the drawer full of holsters and extra gear lol.

GJM, thanks for the suggestions. I'll look into both. Quickly looking at Tom's site though no basic classes seem to be on the schedule.

Be an idea to email Tom, explain your situation, and ask for a recommendation for an instructor in the Memphis area. Tom has a lot of experience in the region.

Reference Randy Cain, GJM is correct, I've heard his name more than a couple times as an excellent diagnostic instructor.

[GJM]

Here is an excellent and relevant Leatham video:


https://youtu.be/li0rGtXh23I

[Bowman_15]

This may or may not help because my trainers don't have much in your immediate area for through the end of the year. Ironically, Tom Givens (see GJM's post above) just moved away the Memphis area about a year ago. You might contact Tom Givens to see if he can recommend anyone local. I'm sure he'd be happy to help.

September 2: Contextual Handgun - Armed Parent/Guardian (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/contextual-handgun-the-armed-parentguardian-tickets-31701192119) with Melody Lauer and John Johnston. Little Rock area. Day one afternoon is general live fire fundamentals that's not specific to being a Armed Parent/ Guardian.

Sept 9-10: Massad Ayoob Group: MAG-20 Live Fire (http://massadayoobgroup.com/schedule/). Centerton, AR (NW AR).

Sept 9-10: Combative Pistol: (https://www.eventbrite.com/e/combative-pistol-new-orleans-tickets-29341134122) Rangemaster (Tom Givens): New Orleans, LA

Thank you for the class recommendations! I am really interested in the parent based one in Little Rock. I have a little 2 year old son and have actually wondered how best to handle a situation with him involved.

GJM, excellent and interesting video. Thanks

[David S.]

Thank you for the class recommendations! I am really interested in the parent based one in Little Rock. I have a little 2 year old son and have actually wondered how best to handle a situation with him involved.

Facebook video: Melody Lauer on how their Armed Parent class is structured. (https://www.facebook.com/LimatunesRangeDiary/videos/10155299678942432/)

[Bowman_15]

Update:
Did around 50 dry fire practice draws today focusing on trigger control. There was some very slight vibration/ movement when the trigger broke and I am still working to have no movement. I worked on my grip during the draw. Something I was uncertain of was when to begin the trigger pull on the draw.

I then went and did some live fire on my place. I focused on shooting at ~7 yards. I began with a 9 shot slow string to see where I am at currently. First shot was a little high and right. Second shot was in the yellow of the target. 😁 I suppose I got too exciting and sent a flyer on the 3rd shot.

I then proceeded to shooting a drill drawing from concealment and firing 2 rounds at target. I used my phone with a shot timer app (unsure how accurate it was) and my headphones with Bluetooth to hear the beep. I managed 2.7 sec for the string with a split between .5 and .7 average while still keeping hits on plate at 7 yards.

A few things I noticed:
1. While focusing on getting hits, the draw, etc. I didn't think about recoil. There were a few times I rushed the time between shots though and didn't let my sights settle.

2. I may invest in a good OWB holster to practice for now. I was using my AIWB holster and while it worked well I would prefer to develop the draw mechanics from an OWB holster.

3. I am currently using a JRC AIWB CDA-2 holster. I really love this holster. It works well for concealment and is relatively comfortable. I did notice though that I was beginning to feel the heat some from the gun towards the end of the session. The other thing that occurred was the slide guard isn't very stiff and can fold over some and obstruct the reholster. Easily seen and fixed but something I was aware of quickly.

4. I probably should invest in a proper shot timer. My phone set up works for now but I'd prefer to not have my phone out at the range. Any recommendations?

18402
18402

[Bowman_15]

The top pictures should be rotated 90 degrees to the right. Can't seem to do it on my phone.

I also forgot to say I had 1 FTF where the round failed to feed properly from the magazine.

[Bowman_15]

I apologize for 3 posts in a row but I must have missed the edit window.

I forgot to mention that while shooting about half of the white paint in my front sight fell out. Is there a specific type of paint I can use to replace it?

Also I realized that I need spare magazines. I currently only have 1 magazine. Makes it challenging to practice reloads lol.

[RJ]

I forgot to mention that while shooting about half of the white paint in my front sight fell out. Is there a specific type of paint I can use to replace it?




I've had good success with Elmer's Painters Pen brand paint pen at Hobby Lobby or WalMart. About $5. I use the Bright Orange on the front, and black on the rear.

http://www.hobbylobby.com/Art-Supplies/Drawing-Illustration/Markers/Black-Elmer's-Ultra-Fine-Tip-Painters-Marker/p/135650

[RJ]

The top pictures should be rotated 90 degrees to the right. Can't seem to do it on my phone.

I also forgot to say I had 1 FTF where the round failed to feed properly from the magazine.

Ok, is this the correct orientation?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170725/36bbb3bc194530b85a41f088a215a1f6.jpg

[RJ]

Just a thought, but this thread has a bunch of printable targets, free:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2124-Printable-Targets

For starters, try post #7, and print the 25 yard Repair Center B8. Shoot 10 rounds at 3 yards, post the target here.

[RJ]

I also forgot to say I had 1 FTF where the round failed to feed properly from the magazine.

What kind of ammo was it?

Is the magazine new? Have you cleaned it?

[RJ]

4. I probably should invest in a proper shot timer. My phone set up works for now but I'd prefer to not have my phone out at the range.

I have this one. It works pretty well:

http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/range-gear/shot-timers/pocket-pro-ii-prod22292.aspx

[spinmove_]

I have this one. It works pretty well:

http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/range-gear/shot-timers/pocket-pro-ii-prod22292.aspx

This is the timer I have. Works well. It's one of the most recommended.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[spinmove_]

Unless you're going to be carrying OWB, I would just pick up a better quality IWB holster as it sounds like you need one. If you're already carrying there's no sense in practicing in a fashion that isn't how you carry, unless you're looking to do Competition.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[Bowman_15]

What kind of ammo was it?

Is the magazine new? Have you cleaned it?

I was shooting Winchester 115 grain brass fmj. It's bulk range rounds bought from Wal-Mart.

I've had this problem before after I switched the magazine release to the right side of the gun. It caused the follower to get caught in the notch for the release on the left side looking spring tension and keeping it from pushing the rounds up. I sanded the edge of the follower to try and keep it from catching. It seemed to help but I may need to take a little bit more off the edge. The magazine hasn't been cleaned but I also haven't dropped it in the dirt at all. My gun is due for a good cleaning though.

I'll print that target and see how it goes.

On the holster, I hope to someday shoot 3 gun so I'll be using an OWB at some point. I would still practice my draw from concealment though.

[jwperry]

I've had good success with Elmer's Painters Pen brand paint pen at Hobby Lobby or WalMart. About $5. I use the Bright Orange on the front, and black on the rear.

http://www.hobbylobby.com/Art-Supplies/Drawing-Illustration/Markers/Black-Elmer's-Ultra-Fine-Tip-Painters-Marker/p/135650

I found that neon nail polish also works well and provided more "pop!" in color than the paint pens.