How Did You Know?

[holmes168]

How did you know when you finally found your primary platform?

I researched my ammo selection for months- 9mm vs 45acp- and 9mm won out for a few different reasons.
I am trying to decide on a single platform- mainly between Glock and HK VP9's.
They are both excellent selections- I like each of them-- but I want to keep EMOTION out of the final decision.

I want to look at both as objectively as possible- I have the G19 and G43 from Glock. The HK's are VP9 and VP9SK.
I have spent plenty of money, but don't mind spending a bit more IF I can make a decision.
The other aspect- is DA/SA a better long term choice? It is safer and I would like to carry AIWB or at least have the option.

I took the G19 and VP9SK to the range today and shot both. I like both, they both fit my hand well.
Help me make an objective decision- what was it that influenced you?
Long term- is DA/SA a better option than strikers?
Is there a drill or test that you used to determine which one you fired better?

This is a tough decision that is faced by many new shooters- I really enjoy the help the experienced guys of this forum provide.

[Duces Tecum]

If you want to keep emotion out of the final decision, just buy whatever the FBI's using and be done with it.

[VT1032]

Very simple answer. When it gets too expensive to switch to another one...

I'm sorely tempted every now and then to jump ship to P320's, but every time I do the math on how big of a hit I'd take on my Glock stuff, I always come to the same conclusion. Haven't jumped ship yet.

[fixer]

When I would go into a store and keep buying the same two platforms...and then no interest in trying anything else...and the humongous gear train for both platforms.

[Totem Polar]

Very simple answer. When it gets too expensive to switch to another one...


This. The difference between gun collectors and folks who have "platforms" is in the amount of shooting on the clock they do. Once you have to accessorize a handgun...

It's as if the guy with the Honda Accord (Glock 19) eyes a Toyota Camry, but then adds up the cost of all the extra rims with different tires on them, the stash of spare camshafts and a transmission or three in the garage, plus realizing that he'll need a new carry garage or two as well.

If all magazines were as cheap as magpul GL series, and I still believed in Uncle Mike's Nylon, I'd have one of everything compact in 9mm. JMO.

[Kyle Reese]

Both the Glock & the HK are fine defensive handguns. If you are seeking a DA/SA analogue to the Glock 19, the Beretta PX4 Compact (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16519-The-PX4-Compact-might-be-my-DA-SA-Glock-19) is certainly worthy of consideration.

It will all boil down to what you are willing to shoot with on a regular basis, train with, dry practice with and carry every day. Once you've got that sorted out, purchase three examples of your handgun selection, spare parts and mags. Use the rest of your discretionary funds on seeking quality training and purchasing ammunition.

[blues]

Once you've got that sorted out, purchase three examples of your handgun selection, spare parts and mags. Use the rest of your discretionary funds on seeking quality training and purchasing ammunition.

Right now I've got three sizes of the same handgun selection but I think a second G26 will be here soon™.

[Sterling Archer]

Personally I don't have a specific platform. It's not like I'm getting married and are promising to forsake all others, so why limit myself.

I do keep them all to the same overall operation though. Meaning any external safety is a frame thumb safety (P226 SAO, Dan Wesson CCO) or no external safety at all (PPQ, M&P). To stay sharp on DA/SA I have my Beretta Brigadier Tactical, which since it's a decocker only doesn't violate my external safety rule.

There's something to be said for "Beware the man who only owns one gun" but I also believe there's benefit to being skilled in all platforms.

[SSGN_Doc]

I probably went the novice route and figured stuff out as I went along. Being in the military I've transferred to the four corners of the US, which means climates were different, as well as wardrobes and laws.

My first handgun was purchased on overall feel, shootability, and safety features, and a bit of cool factor based on the times (1991) - Beretta 92FS. I lived in California and getting a permit to carry was next to impossible where I lived, due to the policies of the chief of police at the time.

Once I moved to Washington, (a shall issue state), I put in my application for a Concealed Pistol License and began to carry the 92 FS. I found it was difficult to conceal year round back then when I weighed about 130 lbs. Easy to carry in the winter and rainy season, but harder in the summer months. I bought a Glock 26 around 1997, because it was about the hottest selling sub compact 9mm at the time, and one of the only options at that time for a poly-framed double stack semi-auto in 9mm. (I was not a "Glock guy" and bought it more out of what it had to offer in size, weight and capacity.) I didn't shoot it as much as I should have, because I still preferred the comfort, balance, and trigger on my Beretta, but dang it was handy.

Transferred from Washington to Connecticut. Hated my time there as a gun guy. Half my collection was illegal in the state and I had to leave a bunch of my collection with my in-laws in Washington. The process, cost and time to get a permit for full state carry in CT was pretty convoluted. Needed to take a class and pass ($100-200), file for a permit in your "Town", which only allowed you to carry within the township, (can't remember cost, but could take months for approval.) Then once approved at township level you could apply with the State for another fee and wait. could take up to about a year or more, and cost over $400. If they meant it to be a deterrent, it worked for deterring an E-5 who couldn't wait to get orders out of that state.

Transferred to Georgia after that and kind of went buck wild on getting my permit and buying guns again. Weather was warm and I was packing the G26 again, but still didn't enjoy shooting it that much. Bought a police trade-in G17 that I was prepared to hate and sell at a profit to buy something I liked more. But...the more I shot it the more I actually liked it. I began shooting at informal club matches and liked the speed I could get out of it. I liked the consistent trigger pull. I had to go TAD up near Smyrna and called the factory to see if I could have an armorer go through the pistol and make sure everything was OK. They pretty much rebuilt the whole pistol. Replaced everything but the frame, slide, locking block and barrel. I continued to shoot the piss out of that pistol, began tweeking it to fit my preferences for sights, and grip texture, then bobbed the frame to take G19 mags, as I finally picked up a G19 for carry. Yep, I became a "Glock guy".

But...I finally began looking at other places to carry than on my strong side hip. I found appendix carry to be of interest. I relocated back to Washington and found I really liked G19 sized pistols, but wasn't confident enough in appendix carry to continually point one in the general direction of the twig and berries or my femoral artery. I went looking for a DA/SA pistol again in the same rough size envelope as the G19. I found a few that stuck out. The CZ P07, P01, and PCR, and the Beretta Px4 Storm compact. Since I was pretty familiar with the Beretta layout of controls through my own personal 92FS that I bought before joining the Navy, and the time I spent shooting it for quals, Fleet matches, and carrying it in the field, the Px4 won out narrowly. (I may still explore one or more of the compact CZs, as I really like my 75B and SP01, but budget only permits so many acquisitions per year.) I've been carrying the Px4 Compact for a while now, and following the threads here regarding Ernest Langdon's combination of parts to make the Px4 more carry capable, has filled a few months of tinkering. I'm having to reestablish my proficiency with DA/SA transitions, but it's coming back pretty fast. I feel comfortable and confident in that little pistol and find it to be easier to shoot than one would expect, when first looking at it. But running it feels kind of like coming home to the Beretta family. I do think it offers a margin of safety above that of the Glock with regard to that first shot being intentional, and holstering being marginally safer.

[beenalongtime]

I am more a hammer guy. But I see a difference between someone who would carry and someone who has it for a home defense gun, JMHO.
That said, I have a friend who is looking at changing from Glock to HK and the VP9, because he is having to switch hands more to shoot. I have offered to loan him my PX4's for the range for testing purposes, and told him from my reading the LEM trigger seems to be a preference on the HK, but he has medical issues that make this a home defense, need to be ambi gun.
When I was taught years ago, I learned right handed, but figured when I got back into it, I would prefer left. I shoot better right, with right eye dominance, but accurate enough with my left. Ambi is a mandated thing for me, personally, or at least the option of it. I've seen too many injuries over the years that force people to adapt, even for a while.

[MSparks909]

Once I started really training and pushing myself the choice of gun became less important; I found something that happens to work well in my hands and I've stuck with that and am now chasing shooting goals rather than the latest gun of the month. I still own guns for enjoyment (my Sig P226/229s for instance) but they aren't my primary gun choice. When I shoot those I shoot them for fun with friends during casual range sessions. But when I go the range to train, with a set list of drills and goals for that specific day, then I'm gonna take my primary training and carry gun and work on improving my skillset.

[Edster]

For a while, I had a Glock 27, a Glock 19, and an HK USPc 45.

I slipped and fell into chest-deep water while carrying the 27. Took it home, took it all the way apart, dried it out, oiled, reassembled, good to go.

Then I thought about what I would have had to do had I been carrying the HK. There's something to be said for being your own armorer. I'm not smart enough to fix anything more complicated than a Glock. That made it an easy decision.

[octagon]

To the OP I can see either platform being a good choice and offer enough options to fit plenty of circumstances so I don't think you can really go wrong with either. I don't get the DA/SA mentality even after reading a ton of posts from many knowledgeable and highly skilled people and more novices and everywhere between. If it is the safety aspect for AIWB carry I can understand it some but that could also be dealt with using a Glock and the Gadget so that may help your choice.

Whenever I consoder a gun or am asked to help a novice select one I try and stay as objective as possible but subjective factors always do play a part and should as liking something is always nicer than accepting something but function needs to be present first and foremost.

I use a checklist method with each step prioritized and considered for the intended purpose of use. Here is my list in order of importance

Safety
Reliability
Accuracy
Complete package Size/weight,capacity, power of cartridge,Functioning fit/ergonomics
Ease of use,maintenance
Overall cost
Availability of gun,mags,ammo,holsters etc..
Subjective feelings

Some I consider together like power,size/weight and such as it is easy for a 22 to be super small and light and easy to conceal but it sucks for power and the small size can make shooting an issue.

Safety is first as I will shoot it a lot more if I trust it and any shot fired from it shouldn't hurt or injure me. In a gunfight I will already have projectiles heading my way why add a gun blowing up,slide coming off back at me or other safety issue added to it.

Nest is reliability. It needs to work every time all the time when clean,dirty or when I am at my best or in the worst situation(injured,weak hand,low light, bloody gun with dirt on it type of thing)

Once it doesn't hurt me and goes bang I want it to hit what I need to which is the effective accuracy for the desired use. More accurate is better but it has to meet a minimum standard first. I also consider if one gun works better with more types of ammo over another gun which works great with 1 or 2 types but not as consistently good with a wide variety of ammo.

Now that it doesn't hurt,goes bang and hits what I want it to the package comes into play. That for me is size,shape,weight,balance,trigger reach,reach and use of controls when full firing grip is maintained,capacity,concealability ease and recoil. How these factors get better or worse TOGETHER is the overall point for me in this category over being good in just a few and horrible in others.

Ease of use and maintenance are next as long term use,detail strip,cleaning and repairs are always better when they are cheap and easy to do rather than sending a gun away to be diagnosed,repaired and then returned. I also don't want a gun that needs frequent maintenance,oiling or parts replacement to work well.

Cost is an issue but low on my list for a platform I am considering as I consider it an investment and if used for defensive purposes my life is worth enough not to scrimp but there is a point where the other factors make 2 different choices close enough to let cost help decide. How much are magazine and accessories adds to the cost.

What good is the perfect gun if you can't get one, or getting anything for it is a challenge. I want multiple guns,magazines and ammo readily available from multiple sources for a platform choice, less so for a fun gun or range toy. A known company well established is considered over new company that may go under( Caracal is that you?) Custom holsters and carry gear are easier to do now so that is less an issue but it is nice to have plenty of choice rather than one or two off the shelf items only.

Lastly is feelings. They do matter but only after the other items are considered. If 2 or more choices are close enough after all things are considered I can let my feelings in and still know I made a good choice.

I hope that helps. It isn't the only way to help decide but it works for me.

[Jared]

There's so much stuff that can go into these kinds of decisions and most of them really boil down to splitting hairs at the end of the day. I'll just tell my story FWIW:

I screwed around with a lot of different guns several years ago. Tried a 226, Glock 17, 1911, and several others. I kept thinking that if I could find that gun that fit my hand right or something that magically I'd be able to shoot better and the low/left hits would disappear. Well, it never really happened. What I did do at the same time I was running out of crap to try and decided to give the oft-maligned Beretta 92 a try was I realized I couldn't shoot because my technique sucked.

So the 92 got the benefit of me actually having bought it just before I actually decided I was going to really learn how to shoot. And I learned how to shoot a hell of a lot better than I had before, and it was what I used. While I worked my way through that process (part of that was just learning how to use the modern isosceles stance and the grip that goes with it) I learned a lot about the 92 and how it worked and how to work on it. So the 92 has been my primary ever since. I shoot other stuff, but nothing else as good. Is it because the 92 is perfect for me or is it because I actually learned how to shoot with one? I honestly do not know. I just know it works.

As far as DA/SA vs striker vs SAO vs LEM and all that stuff. Each system has benefits and problems. It's largely up to the individual to weight those pros and cons and make their own choices. I think the DA/SA works the best in totality, but again that's for me. You may hate it.

I know this whole post is almost a nothing burger, and I'm a bit sorry for that. But it's a long winded way to say that the gun matters a good deal less than your willingness to train with it and train hard with it. I've said before that in the long run, the actual gun doesn't matter much as long as it doesn't have major fleas. If you get a good pistol from a reputable maker, all you have to do is be willing to put in the work and you can shoot it at a high level. Maybe then, emotional attachment is a good thing, because if you actually like the gun, you may be more willing to put in that effort.

[LockedBreech]

My love of firearms meant that everything I grabbed - 92-series, PX4, HK VP9, Sig P-series - I liked pretty well. I'm 6'5" 240 so I also enjoy pretty much any caliber or size of gun.

So...I didn't wanna give up my zillions of guns. I like collecting them, it's fun, but PF taught me I didn't have to, I just had to separate that from what guns I use for serious reasons.

So I asked myself, what platform is available in the most common, effective, supported caliber, in any possible size I need, with a solid track record of customer service, quality control, and reliability?

At the end of that analysis, nothing seemed to come close to the Gen 4 Glock 9mms. They haven't been entirely flawless, but most known issues have been addressed with incremental upgrades. After proofing all of mine, I am very confident in them, and that confidence is bolstered by knowing that no matter what gun I reach for, from my single stack carry to my home defense mounted-light full size, I'm dealing with a common trigger system and identical sights.

So now, 4 out of 5 boxes of ammo I shoot go to maintaining my practical proficiency with my Glocks, and the fifth box goes to one random "fun gun" usually a Beretta. :)


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[Kimura]

GJM wrote this in a different thread. I don't agree that SF is essentially a single action trigger(To me it's half way between SA and DA, but that's just my opinion), but outside of that I think it answers your questions. There is no perfect choice. If you feel the need to commit to one platform, pick one that fills your needs the best and roll on with it.


Darryl and I were discussing this just today.

The LEM is essentially a robust, long trigger travel version of a Glock. For non-enthusiast shooters, it may be the ideal combination of function with a good trade off between ease of shooting and non-ease of shooting (meaning avoiding unintentional shooting). The DA/SA involves more complexity, but in exchange offers a specialized separate threat management and shooting trigger. For an enthusiast, this is a reasonable trade off, and for non-enthusiasts, this may be an unreasonable burden. The striker offers essentially a full time SA trigger, at the cost of less reserve trigger safety.

If you keep these trade offs in mind, there will be less angst. I carry a LEM trigger in the summer, because I value the rest of the HK package. Guess what, my pure technical performance with the LEM is significantly worse than I can do with a good DA/SA or striker trigger. What I do not do is go to a course or competition, and bemoan my worse performance on timed drills. I have yet to find the perfect platform -- they all have their pluses and minuses.

[theJanitor]

No idea if my story will help you, but this is where my choice came from:

My dad owned guns, but was not an enthusiast. He owned them to intentionally kill things (hunt), or kill things out of necessity (family defense). So for handguns, he had a 1911 and a M19, a pair of M70's for hunting, and for home defense, an AR and a Mini-14. There were no "fun" guns. All had a killing purpose. There were no rimfires, or practice calibers. 45, 357, 5.56/223, 270, 30-06 were what was available to me. There were no guns or calibers to lead me on a path of enthusiasm. They were purely tools in our house.

The first handgun I ever shot was a 1911. That's all I got to shoot as a youngster. When it came time for me to buy my first firearm, I bought a 1911. My second was a 1911. Everything else had to measure up to what I had grown up with. And for my situation, nothing has, so I'm the "1911 guy". Whether it's best or not, it's what I'm comfortable with, so it's what I use.

[Nephrology]

Very simple answer. When it gets too expensive to switch to another one...

I'm sorely tempted every now and then to jump ship to P320's, but every time I do the math on how big of a hit I'd take on my Glock stuff, I always come to the same conclusion. Haven't jumped ship yet.

Ditto.

If I was to buy into another 9mm platform it would be to learn another trigger system (SAO, SA/DA). No money for that right now I'm afraid, and would rather buy ammo or long guns than another pistol platform.

[Redhat]

How did you know when you finally found your primary platform?

I researched my ammo selection for months- 9mm vs 45acp- and 9mm won out for a few different reasons.
I am trying to decide on a single platform- mainly between Glock and HK VP9's.
They are both excellent selections- I like each of them-- but I want to keep EMOTION out of the final decision.

I want to look at both as objectively as possible- I have the G19 and G43 from Glock. The HK's are VP9 and VP9SK.
I have spent plenty of money, but don't mind spending a bit more IF I can make a decision.
The other aspect- is DA/SA a better long term choice? It is safer and I would like to carry AIWB or at least have the option.

I took the G19 and VP9SK to the range today and shot both. I like both, they both fit my hand well.
Help me make an objective decision- what was it that influenced you?
Long term- is DA/SA a better option than strikers?
Is there a drill or test that you used to determine which one you fired better?

This is a tough decision that is faced by many new shooters- I really enjoy the help the experienced guys of this forum provide.

How long have you been shooting handguns?

[Bigghoss]

Why keep emotion out of it? If your gun gives you feels then you'll enjoy practicing more. Don't let the emotion be the primary factor, but if you've narrowed it down to a few good guns that all work and work for you then let your inner child or whatever make the final decision.

For me personally when I first got into this I was drawn to Glock because I knew they worked and they have a very wide range of options all with the same manual of arms. Recently I realized I should probably carry off duty as close as possible to what I carry at work so I'm switching over to DA/SA with slide safeties, specifically the PX4 and 90-series but with a 3914 thrown in. These are also guns I just plain like, for me they have a cool factor which helps keep training and practice enjoyable for longer without turning into a chore as quickly.

[okie john]

At some point, I realized that I shot everything about the same after burning up a case of ammo on timed drills. I had a ton of money tied up in Glock stuff so I stayed with them.


Okie John

[spinmove_]

Basically what it boils down to is what a lot of people have suggested here already. The gun ultimately doesn't matter, your ability to run it does. If you're torn between Glock and VP9, I'd go Glock and not look back. If you want TDA, I'd look at the 92/PX4 series. Hard to go wrong with any of them honestly. Pick your pony and start getting better.


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[Jared]

Why keep emotion out of it? If your gun gives you feels then you'll enjoy practicing more. Don't let the emotion be the primary factor, but if you've narrowed it down to a few good guns that all work and work for you then let your inner child or whatever make the final decision.

For me personally when I first got into this I was drawn to Glock because I knew they worked and they have a very wide range of options all with the same manual of arms. Recently I realized I should probably carry off duty as close as possible to what I carry at work so I'm switching over to DA/SA with slide safeties, specifically the PX4 and 90-series but with a 3914 thrown in. These are also guns I just plain like, for me they have a cool factor which helps keep training and practice enjoyable for longer without turning into a chore as quickly.

I get why he's probably trying to keep emotions out of it, it's commonly given advice. "Don't make an emotional investment, it's just a tool" and all that. And it's solid advice, but like a lot of good advice, it gets taken too far and becomes this whole thing where people start parroting it and have no idea what it really means. (Not saying that's the OP, just a thing I've seen)

It's a good idea not to marry the thing, cause it don't love you back. It's also good if you enjoy shooting it enough that it helps motivate you to put in the work.

[Bigghoss]

I get why he's probably trying to keep emotions out of it, it's commonly given advice. "Don't make an emotional investment, it's just a tool" and all that. And it's solid advice, but like a lot of good advice, it gets taken too far and becomes this whole thing where people start parroting it and have no idea what it really means. (Not saying that's the OP, just a thing I've seen)

It's a good idea not to marry the thing, cause it don't love you back. It's also good if you enjoy shooting it enough that it helps motivate you to put in the work.

Exactly. It shouldn't be the main reason, but it can be a reason.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

How did you know when you finally found your primary platform?

I researched my ammo selection for months- 9mm vs 45acp- and 9mm won out for a few different reasons.
I am trying to decide on a single platform- mainly between Glock and HK VP9's.
They are both excellent selections- I like each of them-- but I want to keep EMOTION out of the final decision.

I want to look at both as objectively as possible- I have the G19 and G43 from Glock. The HK's are VP9 and VP9SK.
I have spent plenty of money, but don't mind spending a bit more IF I can make a decision.
The other aspect- is DA/SA a better long term choice? It is safer and I would like to carry AIWB or at least have the option.

I took the G19 and VP9SK to the range today and shot both. I like both, they both fit my hand well.
Help me make an objective decision- what was it that influenced you?
Long term- is DA/SA a better option than strikers?
Is there a drill or test that you used to determine which one you fired better?

This is a tough decision that is faced by many new shooters- I really enjoy the help the experienced guys of this forum provide.
I don't think I can help, considering I based it primarily on emotion: the gun I enjoy shooting the most is my primary platform, because that's what I'll opt to play with for my own enjoyment when nobody is paying me to shoot guns.

I also keep half a dozen Glocks on hand, because they work well and are easy to support logistically.

I think people overthink this.

[MistWolf]

How did you know when you finally found your primary platform? I want to keep EMOTION out of the final decision.



It doesn't matter to anyone else what pistols I've chosen, but I'll explain why I chose them. I chose my primary handgun (the shooter is the platform) because I like it. I like the balance. I like the trigger. I like how it fits my hand. I like the controls. I like how it points and shoots naturally. I had a good idea my current EDC was going to be just what I wanted while handling it at the gunshop. I knew it was what I was looking for before I'd put a box of rounds through it. Of course, I've been shooting for a few decades so I knew what I liked and disliked about a variety of handguns. As far as emotions go, I don't believe in getting something you don't like

[holmes168]

Exactly. It shouldn't be the main reason, but it can be a reason.

I want to take emotion out because- it's easy to get sucked into the newest and latest gun. When I switched to strictly 9mm- it was after buying a couple .45's and .357. Then- the cost of the ammo for three different types of guns started to stack up. Sure- shooting .45 and .357 is fun, but for one hundred of those rounds- I can buy two hundred 9mm. Plus- (without getting into the 9mm vs .45acp debate)- the 9mm is a very solid round, the recoil for me was less, and did enough damage to end the fight. I did the same type of analysis between the AR and the AK. My son has an AK- it's fun to shoot and the rounds are big- but they cost more and after 8 years in the Army, I kind of had the AR down.
The next step (I feel) in my evolution in shooting is to define what I shoot with the best OR if it is close- what is the best system to focus on. Now- as some have said- there isn't anything wrong with having some guns that you take to the range and just enjoy shooting. I like to shoot my PPQ every once in a while, but it doesn't work for me as a carry gun. I am 5' 6" and do have to be careful about what I choose to carry based on my size. The G19 and VP9 are concealable, but nothing bigger. I have the VP9SK- which is an awesome gun, but the magazines are twice the cost of the Glock. Then- when I think long term and read some of the thoughts here- IS the striker fired pistol the most safe? Maybe I am overthinking things- I probably am, but in the long run- the decision (I hope) will pay off in the long run.
I have been shooting pistols regularly for about three years, but have spent a lot of money chasing the next fun gun.

[Jared]

I want to take emotion out because- it's easy to get sucked into the newest and latest gun. When I switched to strictly 9mm- it was after buying a couple .45's and .357. Then- the cost of the ammo for three different types of guns started to stack up. Sure- shooting .45 and .357 is fun, but for one hundred of those rounds- I can buy two hundred 9mm. Plus- (without getting into the 9mm vs .45acp debate)- the 9mm is a very solid round, the recoil for me was less, and did enough damage to end the fight. I did the same type of analysis between the AR and the AK. My son has an AK- it's fun to shoot and the rounds are big- but they cost more and after 8 years in the Army, I kind of had the AR down.
The next step (I feel) in my evolution in shooting is to define what I shoot with the best OR if it is close- what is the best system to focus on. Now- as some have said- there isn't anything wrong with having some guns that you take to the range and just enjoy shooting. I like to shoot my PPQ every once in a while, but it doesn't work for me as a carry gun. I am 5' 6" and do have to be careful about what I choose to carry based on my size. The G19 and VP9 are concealable, but nothing bigger. I have the VP9SK- which is an awesome gun, but the magazines are twice the cost of the Glock. Then- when I think long term and read some of the thoughts here- IS the striker fired pistol the most safe? Maybe I am overthinking things- I probably am, but in the long run- the decision (I hope) will pay off in the long run.
I have been shooting pistols regularly for about three years, but have spent a lot of money chasing the next fun gun.

Alright, now that you've cleared that up this should be easier. Between the Glock and HK, honestly, just pick one. Glocks have more aftermarket stuff. If you're concerned about holstering up, get a Gadget. Hopefully you've vetted yours to be reliable, so there's no surprises lurking there. HK's on the other hand, are one of only two brands that I absolutely expect to run right out of the box. There's less "stuff" out there for them, but you can get sights and holsters, the two biggies in my mind. Mags do cost more, no doubt. You may choose to accumulate over time rather than buy ten right now. That's how I handle expensive mags.

As far as DA/SA, if you want to go that road, there the PX4 compact. If you can hide a G19, you can hide a PX4 Compact. There's not a ton of "stuff" for it either, but you can get a few sight options and holsters are out there. I have a pair of them, they're great guns.

I still kinda think you'll wind up trying a few "latest and greatest" over time. I don't judge people for that, hell, I do it myself. It happens. The most important thing, to me, is building up a solid set of fundamentals and then applying them. If you can do that, then switching now and then shouldn't be too painful, performance wise.

[JustOneGun]

For me, I like to think about it as, "How am I going to test my progress with the pistol that I select that objectively tests the skills necessary for my objectives?" Once I answer that then I shoot each gun in isolation for a few weeks and see how I do on the, "Test." If they are very close then pick the one that is cheapest to buy, maintain, buy bullets for, etc.

The only way you can go wrong with that idea is if you are testing the wrong thing. I like this idea because no matter what platform you pick, you will need a test anyway. So for me I just choose to use it to select my pistol.

[YVK]

I don't think it is really that difficult when choosing VP vs Glock. Cost is a wash / nonissue even if VP mags are more expensive. Objective (non-emotional) things to be considered

- What you shoot best, in objective terms, not it terms what fit your hands best. Do you have worse low/lateral tendency with one vs another?
- What you can conceal well. I don't find G19 and VP9 equivalent in size, and even if they were, they don't conceal the same way for me. YMMV.
- Is ease of working on and replacing parts yourself important to you?
- Looking over aftermarket stuff available for VP9, are you satisfied with what's available for your needs (mostly sights, but also recoil springs, carry magwells etc) because you know that everything is available for Glocks?
- If you want AIWB, do you feel that SCD is very important or unimportant?
- Does wider range of sizes, from 17L to 43, have any value to you?
- Do you care about fully tensioned strikers vs partially tensioned strikers?
- Does HK mag release bug you?
- Care about adjustable ergos?
- Track record, whatever that might mean, matters to you?

That's all I can think, maybe the group will help to point out differences between the two.

I think if you answered all of that and gave each point appropriate weight relevant to you, you will arrive to an answer and you won't doubt it in the future, unless your values change. For me personally, those 10 points break down into 7-3 score for Glock, including a couple of "high weight points" for my preferences. You may have a different opinion.

Yes, many, me included, believe that DA/SA is safer for AIWB. We, those who believe it, cannot quantify or prove on basis of hard outcomes that this is the case. We also do not mean that not-DA/SA is unsafe for AIWB. This stuff is firmly in realm of theoretical considerations and plausible expectations, basically leaving it to your comfort levels and beliefs.

[GJM]

My experience is that all the main platforms can be shot so closely, that the difference in performance is unlikely to matter except in competition (which is designed to magnify tiny differences in performance). I don't pay much attention to shooting tests as a way of picking a gun, because they measure where you are, as opposed to where you want to be in the future. I think it gets down to an intellectual decision, where you weigh the various pros and cons, and pick the platform that checks the most boxes for you. One you decide, get two or three copies, and learn to shoot. The only exception is, if you pick something other than a Glock, buy one G19, because everyone needs at least one of those.

[spinmove_]

I keep seeing posts based on cost of magazines and such. Inexpensive Glock magazines are nice, but I wouldn't base my decision on that metric. Do a TCO analysis on how much EVERYTHING will cost for that platform. And I do mean everything. Spare parts, holsters, sights, gadgets, magazines, and whatever other fiddly bits you might be putting on them. Then multiply it all by 2 or 3 because you're going to want 2 or 3 identical copies of whatever pistol you end up choosing.

Then when you've got that all added up, assume that any given "good" pistol you pick up is good for at least 50,000 rounds, so work up the cost of 50,000 rounds for starters just as a "this is what it will cost to feed these beasts in order to train, practice, and get better". I think you'll find that ammo cost will probably be your deciding cost factor and that everything else is largely a drop in the bucket.


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[JustOneGun]

It doesn't matter to anyone else what pistols I've chosen, but I'll explain why I chose them. I chose my primary handgun (the shooter is the platform) because I like it. I like the balance. I like the trigger. I like how it fits my hand. I like the controls. I like how it points and shoots naturally. I had a good idea my current EDC was going to be just what I wanted while handling it at the gunshop. I knew it was what I was looking for before I'd put a box of rounds through it. Of course, I've been shooting for a few decades so I knew what I liked and disliked about a variety of handguns. As far as emotions go, I don't believe in getting something you don't like



That's fair enough. And we all ultimately must choose. But make no mistake about it, some people love the feel of a gun and have problems shooting it.

I think you hit on some key issues. For many, how the gun feels is actually how it makes them feel. i.e. emotion not fit. So each person has to think about that issue. And of course my biggest complaint about this issue isn't that you, me, Langdon, etc want to use a certain trigger or pistol. It's not the experienced that we have to worry about. It's the new or inexperienced. They suffer from our out of context biases.

Tangent not directed at you Mist:

So if I struggled to learn a certain trigger for years, but never needed the pistol to save my life then there is nothing lost. Now 20 years later I'm now a master trainer guru. Should I just tell the newer shooter that there is nothing wrong with using my platform? What happens when they get robbed during the second month of training and they were struggling to learn it just like I did? Yeah, we will make fun of them with some snarky comment and move on. We sometimes forget our own history of problems or our own history that don't have problems(we just got it). How can someone who never struggled to learn to shoot help someone who is struggling? There are ways, but just do it my way isn't usually one of them.

[JustOneGun]

One of the most emotional reasons used in pistol selection is, "(insert famous person) uses it", "The FBI uses it" or, "Special forces uses it."

I usually use the Charles Barkley answer first, "You ain't me. You can't do what I do. You're not going to the NBA. Get good grades. Be happy, you're getting a free college education" Instead of NBA, insert famous person or Navy Seals.

[Duelist]

One of the most emotional reasons used in pistol selection is, "(insert famous person) uses it", "The FBI uses it" or, "Special forces uses it."

I usually use the Charles Barkley answer first, "You ain't me. You can't do what I do. You're not going to the NBA. Get good grades. Be happy, you're getting a free college education" Instead of NBA, insert famous person or Navy Seals.

That could be an emotional, "I wanna be a cool kid, too" reason, or it could be more logical: "look at all the testing that's been done to those things - I want one of those!"

[CommanderCrusty]

I once took 4 handguns to the range and shot back to back police style qualification courses with all 4. SA auto, DA only auto, TDA auto and DA revolver. Same shooter. Same day. Same range. All with full power defensive ammo. Guess what? Scores were almost the identical. Yes, I was 3 points down with the snubby, but would have qualified with all four handguns. So, for me, it isn't about finding The One, the Magic Gun, the Holy Grail. Now, I shoot what I ENJOY shooting, and I shoot what POINTS NATURALLY. When evaluating a potential handgun purchase, I sight the weapon on a target, close my eyes, lower the gun, then raise it again and open my eyes. The right gun for my hands and wrists is one that comes right back up on target.

[blues]

One of the most emotional reasons used in pistol selection is, "(insert famous person) uses it", "The FBI uses it" or, "Special forces uses it."

I usually use the Charles Barkley answer first, "You ain't me. You can't do what I do. You're not going to the NBA. Get good grades. Be happy, you're getting a free college education" Instead of NBA, insert famous person or Navy Seals.

And then again, sometimes we just like and feel comfortable with the Glock 19. (Which I started carrying in 1988 or 1989 before I had the slightest clue that anyone outside of my own circle cared about it one way or the other.)

But yeah, I agree in general with the stated premise while also feeling that the firearms carried by state, local and federal / military agencies certainly warrant looking at. While they may not necessarily be the "best" for any particular individual, they are generally pretty competent firearms for their intended purpose.

[JustOneGun]

That could be an emotional, "I wanna be a cool kid, too" reason, or it could be more logical: "look at all the testing that's been done to those things - I want one of those!"



That isn't a totally bad idea. But I would suggest to any new person that if they follow two rules they will be fine no matter what...
1. Buy from a large manufacture such as glock, sig, hk, etc.
2. Stay away from newly rolled out models.

Again, that still doesn't solve the problem of what type of platform to choose and why we would chose it. We've come full circle.

[JustOneGun]

I once took 4 handguns to the range and shot back to back police style qualification courses with all 4. SA auto, DA only auto, TDA auto and DA revolver. Same shooter. Same day. Same range. All with full power defensive ammo. Guess what? Scores were almost the identical. Yes, I was 3 points down with the snubby, but would have qualified with all four handguns. So, for me, it isn't about finding The One, the Magic Gun, the Holy Grail. Now, I shoot what I ENJOY shooting, and I shoot what POINTS NATURALLY. When evaluating a potential handgun purchase, I sight the weapon on a target, close my eyes, lower the gun, then raise it again and open my eyes. The right gun for my hands and wrists is one that comes right back up on target.



Do you struggle to pass the police style qual? If not perhaps you're just a good shooter. Maybe for you it doesn't matter. But shoot something that is practical for CCW or Gaming depending on your goal and shoot that tough test. Most people start to see the difference in outcome.

An example...when I was shooting a lot and working at the range full time I took a year and became a left handed shooter. I shot perfect scores on the qual left handed, cross eye dominate. It was a good thing to do and it helped me as an instructor and one handed shooting. But I would not begin to make the mistake of thinking I had the same ability in a gunfight because I shot the same on the easy AZPOST qual. Hell, I passed well enough for SWAT the first time I strapped on a lefty holster.

[Robinson]

I've been a 1911 user for a long time, even back when I was still carrying a K Frame .38. But a few years back I started taking an interest in the 9mm cartridge as it dawned on me how much sense it makes especially in recent years. Once several 1911 makers started offering more pistols in 9mm I took a serious look at the options. I came to the conclusion that a 9mm Lightweight Commander just makes a lot of sense as a carry gun for me. Good size, good weight, good cartridge.

My HD pistol is a full size Government model, but I'm pretty content with the 9mm Lightweight Commander as my carry gun. That doesn't mean I don't keep my mind open to other possibilities though.

[holmes168]

Out on my morning run- I started to come up with a methodology for a gun purchase....
1. What is the purpose of the gun? Home Defense or Concealed Carry (for me- I want to shoot a competition one day, but probably in 2019
1a. If my #1 priority is CCW, then does my CCW have a big brother just like it for Home Defense? (VP9 and VP9SK, G17 and G19, etc)
2. DA/SA vs. LEM vs. SF- which is the safest system, but also what is the easiest to shoot?
2a. Do I want to carry AIWB? Do I need to carry AIWB? Do I think I need to carry AIWB because the cool kids carry AIWB? Do I want to carry only IWB or have the option to carry AIWB?
3. What is the most reliable gun out there? Can I even find reliable stats on what is the most reliable gun?
4. Am I able to conceal the pistol since CCW is my #1 priority? I had might as well open carry my AR vs. trying to hide a big pistol.
4a. How does it fit my hand? Overall Ergonomics- can I drop a magazine easily? Is it a heavy pistol or light- ounces turn into pounds?
5. How widespread is the use of the pistol? Can I get replacement parts easy? What kind of customer service is offered? Who uses the pistol in the US? Why did they choose it?
6. Total cost of the overall system? My G19 has new sights, Ghost Evo Elite, and needs Talon Grips (or some type of other grip help)- those upgrades make it a bit more costly for sure.

I was running in Texas and it was already hitting 85 degrees and after 20 minutes, I stopped thinking about pistols and began to wonder why I didn't run at 6:00 and not 10:00. So- that is where I am so far!

[Rex G]

I have been searching since at least 1983. ;) My most-active experimentation period was from 1990 to 1995, when I worked enough OT to enable trying new platforms relatively often. The final time I added a totally new platform was in 2002, Gen3 Glocks, though I returned to SIG, for accuracy, in 2004, and then got away from SIG, due to painful muzzle flip, with .40 Snap & Whip ammo, in 2015, going back to Glock, though Gen4, 9mm, this time, after my chief Ok'ed 9mm as an alternative duty cartridge.

My first handgun was an off-brand compact 1911, a Detonics Combat Master. It was too unreliable to trust for defensive carry, but I liked the platform well enough to keep trying, from time to time.

I was mandated to use only DA revolvers, on and off the clock, for my first year of street police patrol, March 1984 to March 1985. Since then, I have never totally stopped using DA revolvers, though my preferred brand for actual carry has shifted from S&W to Ruger. It looks like Ruger and S&W revolvers will be my true lifetime weapons.

My first daily carry of a 1911, for police patrol and personal time, was an initially-reliable Stainless Commander, 1990-1991. When it became mysteriously finicky, I switched to a P220 for a couple of years. From 1997 to 2002, the 1911 again became my primary platform, for police duty and personal-time carry, with an S&W J-snub being a nearly-daily back-up, and a GP100 being a special-occasion weapon. I am still using two 1911 pistols, today, which are reliable.

What happened in 2002, to interrupt my consistent 1911 usage? Well, I realized, during rifle-to-handgun transition drills, that the Safariland 070 duty holster was not conducive to my ability to attain a perfect firing grip on a 1911. (Thumb and grip safeties mandate attaining a consistent firing grip.) So, reluctantly, I decided to switch to one of the four approved .40 duty pistols, the G22. After learning of the slimmer factory trigger option for SIGs, I returned to SIG, a P229R DAK, for better accuracy, in 2004.

For a while, I thought the P229 would be THE ONE GUN for me, for life, supplemented by revolvers, but then age caught up with me, and .40 Snap & Whip ammo, plus the high SIG bore axis, prompted me to return to regular personal-time carry of the gentler-recoiling .45 ACP in all-steel, full-sized 1911 pistols in 2012, and then switch to 9mm Glock duty pistols as soon as my chief authorized 9mm as an approved duty cartridge in late 2015. I sold several SIGs, keeping my one most-carried P229R DAK, for old times' sake.

In 2016, I was able to return to using 1911 pistols again, while on patrol, thanks to a policy change, and a new standard duty holsters, the 6360, that allows attaining a proper firing grip at the outset of the draw. As a practical matter, I generally carry 9mm Glocks while on patrol, especially when riding shotgun in the new compact Ford Explorer-based vehicles, when a G19 is the largest pistol that allows me to quickly exit without being intercepted by the right seat bolster. (I have two duty belts set-up, one for Glock, and one for 1911.)

I have no trouble training with, and using, the Glock, 1911, and DA revolver systems. It is likely that these will be my lifetime weapon platforms. (I did, notably, have an issue trying to use both SIG DAK and Glock systems together, sometimes failing to reset the SIG trigger properly, after a session with shorter-reset Glocks.)

[CommanderCrusty]

That's fair enough. And we all ultimately must choose. But make no mistake about it, some people love the feel of a gun and have problems shooting it ...

Well, that's me. I like TDA pistols. Always wanted a Ruger P345 and finally got one. It felt great it my hand. I dry fired and shot it a lot, but couldn't hit a green field across a fence. Reluctantly traded the Ruger in on a 92FS. Honestly, the 92FS feels fat. The safety is hard to reach. The sights are just okay but, I shoot that gun like a laser beam.

Same with the 1911--shot my dad's pistols for years, but wouldn't buy one because I couldn't keep 8 shots on the paper. Then one day, I just got it. Now I can use that trigger just fine, thank you.

So, I agree completely that not every gun will fit every shooter. Also, I shoot striker fired guns just fine, I just don't enjoy it very much. To me they are just ... eh.

So, there may be a lot of overlap, or no overlap at all for some folks ir some guns. Gotta shoot what you enjoy and shoot well.

[Mr_White]

How did you know when you finally found your primary platform?

I knew because I wasn't being distracted by the gun at all, and I was only thinking about what I could learn to do with it.

[s0nspark]

I still kinda think you'll wind up trying a few "latest and greatest" over time. I don't judge people for that, hell, I do it myself. It happens. The most important thing, to me, is building up a solid set of fundamentals and then applying them. If you can do that, then switching now and then shouldn't be too painful, performance wise.

Personally I think it is healthy fun to do that and it can have benefits as well. Always good to stay on top of the new hotness as an enthusiast or instructor!

I do my best to try things out without having to drop the dimes myself though - that way when it just reaffirms why I like my current gear I'm not out anything ;-)

Top of my checkout list at the moment is the Beretta APX...

[LockedBreech]

Top of my checkout list at the moment is the Beretta APX...

Tried one and liked it and came so close to getting one but it fits the EXACT role of the G17 I JUST got.

The Beretta fanboy in me is at constant war with the practical.

[s0nspark]

Tried one and liked it and came so close to getting one but it fits the EXACT role of the G17 I JUST got.

The Beretta fanboy in me is at constant war with the practical.

I have been toying with the idea of getting a G17/19/34 but just haven't gotten excited about it enough to actually do it. I talked myself into a Sig P320RX last year that is great on paper but... just doesn't do it for me. When it sells I will have some fun money to experiment with again.

I'm hoping some SFA thing will click for me instead of the Glock but I will probably end up with G19 anyway LOL I can always turn it into a Roland Special, though, so it wouldn't be all bad.

I do like the APX from handling it a bunch, though, and I am partial to any design that has a non-serialized frame. That frees me up to send it out for stippling without feeling like I've made a permanent choice.

[Doc_Glock]

I knew because I wasn't being distracted by the gun at all, and I was only thinking about what I could learn to do with it.

This is super valid. I used to be really in to riding mountain bikes. I went through a bunch of bikes. Ultimately I found a bike that I have now kept for many years. It wasn't what the bike did that made it appealing, it was what it didn't do; it simply didn't irritate or distract me in any way from the actual process of riding. It became invisible and I could focus on the activity.

I had forgotten about this negative approach to equipment evaluation: find equipment that gets out of the way and does not distract from the activity in question. Equipment that simply becomes invisible.

Thanks for the reminder.

[holmes168]

I knew because I wasn't being distracted by the gun at all, and I was only thinking about what I could learn to do with it.

I read this quote multiple times- you Sir are 100% correct. I repeated it to my wife and she rolled her eyes and said- that's basically what I have been telling you for years. It's why I bought the VP9 and VP9SK in the first place. Stop tinkering and get serious- such a good reminder. Every pistol has good and bad qualities- nothing is perfect.

[Wobblie]

I knew because I wasn't being distracted by the gun at all, and I was only thinking about what I could learn to do with it.

Exactly, for me that gun is my steel Tanfoglio 38 Super. Too bad it's too frickin' heavy to carry.

[jwperry]

I posed a very similar question a few months back:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?23916-Performance-vs-Preference

Based on a lot of the feedback I received there, I focused on a single pistol type for a solid month (2 range trips a week, 150 rounds max per trip) and compared the numbers on the things that were important to me. Then I performed the same drill with the 2nd pistol type over the course of a month.

There were/are a lot of things I like about the G17, but the P226 is a better handgun for me and documenting my testing & effort really made the choice easy.

[M2CattleCo]

When I picked up a Glock 43 and consistently shot 8" and smaller 13 round groups at 25 yards cold.

I got a couple 34s for a big pistol, a few 43s for carry, and sold every other handgun I owned.

[psalms144.1]

I've done the "what's better than the G19" thing about 26 gazillion times since buying my first circa 1990. So far, I keep coming back to the G19.

Specific to the G19 or the VP9, have them both. The VP9's trigger is noticeably lighter, and shoots slightly "tighter" off the bench. In practical terms, it's easier to shoot the VP9 with a higher degree of accuracy, for me.

The G19 is easier to shoot with acceptable accuracy at speed - the VP9's recoil profile just doesn't "work" for my hands (almost certainly due to literally 100s of thousands of rounds through GLOCKs in the last 27+ years). Since the VP9 doesn't hold any more rounds, and is measurably harder for me to conceal, the G19 is a no-brainer. I know the VP9sk would be easier to conceal, but only at the cost of surrendering 1/3 of the magazine capacity - not a trade off I'm willing to make.

I'm playing around with other stuff now, most recently the CZ P07, mostly because I "grew up" in the .mil and LE shooting traditional DA/SA pistols, and wanted to give them another whirl, just to see. Initial results are impressive, to say the least - I can run the P07 faster AND more accurately (even at speed) than the G19. Does that mean I'll be switching primaries? Time will tell, but, I tend to doubt it.

I'm always tempted to give the P320 a whirl, but, frankly, it's just another polymer striker fired 9mm with the same capacity of the G19 in a slightly larger package - and my shooting to date with the platform doesn't show it to be any MAJOR improvement from the G19. And, to be perfectly honest, the thing I emotionally WANT to do nowadays on the range is get back into shooting 1911s - but that's a whole 'nother can of worms that cost is keeping me from opening right now. Maybe next year.

On the question of carry safety, there's no such thing as a "safer" pistol if the pistol is being grossly mishandled. Having said that, I strongly believe that there is a scale of "tolerance" for mishandling that runs, in descending order, like this: Traditional DAO -to- DAK -to- LEM -to- DA/SA -to- SAO -to SF. Of the striker fired, I think fully-pre-tensioned striker pistols are less tolerant of mishandling than partially tensioned strikers. So, on one end of the spectrum would be a Sig or Beretta DAO pistol as MOST tolerant of minor mishandling ("safest") to the VP9/P320 as LEAST tolerant of minor mishandling. My scale is my own, and certainly arguable, there is plenty of reason to think a Glock is more "tolerant" than a DA/SA pistol or SAO if the former is cocked or the latter is safety-off.

So, not sure if any of that adds anything, and another reason why I shouldn't ramble after a long couple of days working search warrants...

[RevolverRob]

I'll let you know when I find it.

Probably a Korth of Manurhin MR73 revolver is perfect for me. But I've never had the money to try.

[ca survivor]

lucky those that find the right gun, I have from Sigs, HKs, Glocks and some S&W (shields) not to mention the 1911s and I switch from one platform to another some times in the same day, I would start with a Sig 220 and switch to an HK USPc by the end of the day or to a Glock if I'm going to be in a marine environment, the holster options I have for a particular gun takes a big part in the carry decision too, since I don't like carrying in Kydex holsters anymore. ;)

trying to answer the OP question, I had a lot of Glocks still have some, if the HK VP line or the Sigs 320 would have been on the market first, I probably would not own Glocks, well maybe one, I don't care what the Army, FBI my local PD, ICE or team six uses.

[blues]

I don't care what the Army, FBI my local PD, ICE or team six uses.

Methinks he doth protest too much...

;)

[David S.]

Something like what Gabe White said earlier. My primary reason for "platform" change has been ergonomics.

Started with Glock 19 Gen 3 and early Gen 4. I suffered slide bite and didn't care for the GFA solution. I later developed an interest in AIWB (pre- Gadget days). So started the search.

Settled on the SIG P226, because nostalgia. I shot it fine, other than my thumb fouling the slide catch. I don't typically carry a spare mag, so that didn't matter. I decided it was too big and heavy for EDC.

I probably should have picked up Glock 19g4's with beavertail backstraps and SCDs but was persuaded by TLG and Bolke's love affair with LEMs, so off to H&K. My wife vastly preferring the VP9 over the Glock lineup was the final straw. I picked up a P30 and P2000 from another P-F member. I'll probably trade the P2000 for a P30sk at some point but other than that, I'm happy enough with my set up and see no reason to change.

I just don't find the search for the unicorn gun interesting anymore.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I'm a damned freak.

I knew because I fell in love with the LEM trigger almost instantly... Because I'm a freak.

Actually it's probably because I spent so much time dry practicing DA shots on the p226, so the pull length on the LEM was never a hiccup for me.

I'm open to persuasion into a TDA platform in the future but have more useful things to use money on. I love hammer guns. Full stop. Honestly I might be more likely to find a USPc and cram the MH-LEM into it.

I still have a pair of Glocks: 19 and 17k, for packing, just in case or any excursion where taking a dunk is possible to likely. I maintain proficiency with them no problem. Pistol, generic, 9mm and all that.


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