M1 Carbines?

[Jay585]

Inspired by Ken Hackathorn's most recent post on SSD (http://soldiersystems.net/2017/06/10/gunfighter-moment-ken-hackathorn-26/) I am looking into getting an M1 Carbine.

Any advice? I'm thinking of buying one via GunBroker. Don't really know what to look for. Maybe a Fulton Armory carbine would be better?

Also - magazines (the 15-round variety). Buy NOS? Korean? Promag?

How about feeding it? Any reccomended brands? Seems like the Privi stuff is cheapest (aside from steel case which I won't shoot). Is it good to go?

I'm partial to the original configuration (not the paratrooper model), and I like Winchester but only for their logo.

[Trooper224]

You can find an all original GI carbine in good shape for less than a Fulton, I'd shop around and leave them as a last resort. However, if a commercial carbine is what you want, they're the only one I'd consider. The rest are junk.

Stick with the 15 round GI magazines, 20 rounders don't work as reliable whether they be GI or commercial. J&G Sales has NOS 15s for a decent price. I have several and they've all been good to go.

http://www.jgsales.com/m1-carbine-15rd-surplus-magazine,-original-usgi,-new-in-wrap,-possible-corrosion.-p-402.html

The Privi ammo is okay. Use a soft point or HP for actual defense. For decent practice/plinking ammo, I've had good results with the Armscor fmj stuff.

[fatdog]

A few years back the CMP released a large number of these that were arsenal rebuilt. They lack the import marks, the quality of the rebuilds was high and they should be good to go as shooters, mine are. Inland is the most common and I have never had a bad experience with one, Winchester and IBM are quite rare and expensive but will not be better quality shooters. I avoid promag mags at all cost, the Korean 15 rounders have worked fine for me but I have had trouble with some of the Korean or Phillipine 30 rounders. The steel case stuff works fine. PMC stuff runs fine, Aguila, UMC, but I cannot see an accuracy difference with any of the store bought ammo.

The ones Fulton sells are going to be good guns too.

Beware that there are some Korean imports or reimports with shoddy parts and corroded barrels, all will have import marks. I have seen some atrocious guns reimported by "blue sky" whoever that was. Navy Arms imported a large quantity in the 80's and they did some QA and repair on the ones they brought back from wherever, all of those I have seen were good to go. Avoid Iver Johnson or Universal at all costs, they are pure crap.

[Joe in PNG]

Doc Roberts posted some advice on them here somewhere, a few years back.

Edit: found it here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4339-M1-Carbines)

[Lester Polfus]

This thread is well timed. An M1 carbine has been on the short list for upgrading my wife from her current 10/22+30 round mag + CCI minimag combo.

What is a realistic price to pay for a functional M1 carbine?

[Drang]

Nowadays, local gun show prices run in the 6920 plus a dozen PMags range.

The ammo is cheaper, too.

This makes me unhappy, I think an M1 carbine would be an idea SD/HD long gun for HH6.

[Bigghoss]

The M1 Carbine is a neat gun and handy AF, it would be really nice if someone could manage a decent replica for less than my pickup is worth. Years ago I got an Inland from Big 5, had some funky writing on the stock but someone on TFL was able to tell me it was someone's name written in Hebrew. From that we were able to put together that it had been a lend-lease to Israel. I wish I could pin down more of the history but just the name on the stock adds gobs to the cool factor.

[drjaydvm]

Keepshooting.com has nice reliable 30 round mags for under $20. I hand load 30 carbine using the same powder, primers and projectiles that I use in 300 blk. I'm getting 1860 fps using 110g sierra varminters and W296. The same combo gets 2150 fps out of an 8 inch 300 blk SBR. My wife and 11 year old can easily handle the carbine, but have trouble shouldering and holding up an ar-15

[Odin Bravo One]

I got a National Postal Meter M1 Carbjne from CMP years ago, and was among the best gun purchases I've ever made. $300 shipped to my doorstep. I added an ultimak rail for a Micro, and it is a viable option for HD if I didn't have better options available. I use only GI 15 round mags. Every other mag I've ever tried has been a piece of shit. I bought several cases of Aguilla ammo (also thru CMP) and have been very happy with the results. Check Gary's page on ammo, as he has some worthwhile insights in what to feed it for defensive purposes.

Mine isn't overly accurate, but it is sub-MOA (Minute Of Asshole) out to 100 yards and virtually no POI shift from fodder to performance ammunition. Neat little guns.

[Lester Polfus]

Nowadays, local gun show prices run in the 6920 plus a dozen PMags range.

The ammo is cheaper, too.

This makes me unhappy, I think an M1 carbine would be an idea SD/HD long gun for HH6.

That's funny because every time run the "what semi auto centerfire rifle to buy" mental exercise, that's where I wind up. I have a slight preference for the 6720, but it don't make no never mind.

[Sigfan26]

I plan on one of the new Inpand Scout models and a paratrooper stock after I get glass for my 6720. There's just something about them. They're just cool (and functional)


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[Salamander]

Coincidentally, I just picked one up a few weeks ago, a 1943 manufacture Inland, as is usually the case it was rebuilt (at Rock Island Armory) sometime postwar, with some of the late hardware (front band w/ bayonet mount, late mag release, late safety) added at that time but otherwise appears to be mostly original and in pretty good shape. Ideal, because of the rebuild it's not hyper-collectible so I'm not afraid to shoot it. Although as a GI original, it will likely continue to increase in value over time, unlike the aftermarket versions.

Found it at a LGS that gets carbines from time to time, usually they're very beat up, this one was the best I've seen there although it does have some "character" in the wood.

I shot it last weekend, 50 rounds of Aguila FMJ which was all I could find in stock locally. Reliable so far, no problem keeping most shots in a six inch circle at 100 yards with an occasional minor flyer. Set the rear sight to 100 yds, centered it, the first few were a few inches right, a few clicks left on the sight and the second group was in the black so very quick and easy to sight in.

I'm of course limited to 10 round mags in California, ordered two more in addition to the one it came with, the new ones came from the "new" Inland Mfg in Dayton, they seem well made but fit pretty tightly when new. I touched them up with a file in two spots and they fit well now, tight but not hard to seat anymore.

Next step is to try some soft points and see if they feed OK.

My Garand and my M1903A3 are more accurate especially at longer ranges, but I really like the M1 carbine. Barely over five pounds, handles nicely, and it's a bit of history; my dad carried one of these in the early 50s, I can see why he often said he really liked it. Almost certainly my uncle carried one on Attu, although he wouldn't talk about it.

There's a lot of good info on the CMP forums, and there are several good reference books out there also.

[nalesq]

Great. I'm trying to work up the nerve to finally sell my Underwood M1 Carbine which I think is cool but I haven't shot in like a decade, and a thread like this comes along.


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[BN]

Does anybody make a reliable 9mm chambered M1 Carbine type rifle?

[littlejerry]

Does anybody make a reliable 9mm chambered M1 Carbine type rifle?

The best surrogate I've found is to put Tech Sights on a 10/22.

You can even buy a replica drop in stock:
http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/stock-forend-parts/rifle-stocks/ruger-10-22-m1-carbine-style-stock-prod40789.aspx

I'm curious if the new Inland Mfg rifles are any good.

[GuanoLoco]

I have a Plainfield M1 carbine and like it a lot. Good capacity, ballistics, super simple manual of arms, small, light, handy, easy to shoot even for smaller/new/inexperienced shooters.

This is probably the most effective firearm I have for Guana Loca.

18159

You can get an Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbinbe from Bud's for < $700.

https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/mobile/product/39833/redirect

[John Hearne]

While not a popular opinion, I believe that the typical police officer would be better served with an M1 carbine with a tang safety, Aimpoint, and WML than any AR offering - especially with Corbon DPX stuffed in it.

[Jeep]

I have several carbines. One is a "Blue Sky" import. Curiously it is a tack drvier, but it is a well-worn one, and thus has also been a maintenance queen, mainly relating to the piston. The other is what appears to have been a freshly re-parked Underwood that was then put in an attic collecting dust for a generation or two. I put a rail and a micro on it and it is a lot of fun. Excellent little rifle--and I have found that recoil-sensitive women like shooting it a lot.

If I were buying one today, I'd get a new Fulton Armory version. Well made and not worn out in an way.


I've found the cheapest ammo to be PPU from SGAmmo, but keep looking--almost all commercially manufactured ammo works well. For self defense, any soft-points that feed should do the trick.

Unlike others I have had mixed luck with GI mags--many are rusty and worn out. The Korean 15-rounders that come in kraft-paper wrappers (KCI?), by contrast, have worked extremely well.

Do not, under any circumstances by Pro-Mag or generic. I learned the hard way.

[Jeep]

While not a popular opinion, I believe that the typical police officer would be better served with an M1 carbine with a tang safety, Aimpoint, and WML than any AR offering - especially with Corbon DPX stuffed in it.

I think this is absolutely correct. The M1 is lighter, handier (I can think of no rifle that comes to the shoulder as naturally), easy to operate and can hit anything within a reasonable range, but will not send a bullet as far down range. With proper ammunition is a proven manstopper. Some police used them back in the 1950's-70's and I think they found them to be a very satisfactory weapon. The one drawback is that most of the ones out there are aging, and while parts are still pretty plentiful you'd have to plan on serious maintenance by department armorers, and that maintenance would probably be necessary sooner than with a new AR unless you bought new M1's from Fulton.

[Ed L]

I've seen surplus carbines that will not function reliably with anything else but FMJ.

On p. 31 of Cirillo's book, Tales of The Stakeout Squad he details how they ad a gunsmith work over the M1 Carbine and the magazines to make it reliably function with Winchester Hollowpoints, which have exposed lead as well as a small hollowpoint cavity.

I have a WWII surplus M1 Carbine and have found that it has problems with softpoints because the exposed lead manages to get caught on the feedramp and the top of the chamber. The gun was designed to function with Full metal jacketted military ammo.

The functioning with softpoints is somewhat confusing because I have spoken to one gunsmith who specializes in M1 carbines specialist saying that the gun will never be 99% reliable with softpoints, while it seems some other people and gunsmiths have had other experience.

Anyway, below are some pictures of different loads for the M1 Carbine.

A week ago I took the .30 Carbine shooting and tried 15 rounds of the Corbon 110 grain Hollowpoints and about 40 rounds of Privi Partisan softpoints .(pictured above).

All of the Corbon hollowpoints functioned flawlessly--though I would not base anything on a sample fo 15 rounds. I thionk I was correct in suspecting that the smoothness of the jacket and length of the bullet aid in reliable feeding.

The Privi Partisan softpoints, however, yielded 3 failures to feed out of about 40 rounds fired. This occurred with three different magazines which functioned flawlessly with full metal jacket rounds.

Below is a picture that shows a full metal jacket round first with a round of softpoint that failed to feed in the middle and a round of the softpoint straight from the box. Notice the wedge or gouge in nose of the middle round. This was from when the round caught on the feedramp when it failed to feed. Also notice that the soft lead tip has flattened out somewhat compared to next round over which is a fresh from the box softpoint. I ejected a softpoint round that did feed and noticed similar markings on its tip to those that failed to feed.

18166

[Zincwarrior]

if the feed ramp area is polished then they are much better with soft points. Do an internet search for the procedure.

[drjaydvm]

From what I understand feeding different types of bullets depends on the individual rifle. My arsenal rebuilt national postal meter has functioned 100% with everything I've tried so far, including soft points, critical defense, and my varminter hand loads.

[5pins]

I had some limited experience with the M1 back in the mid 80's and into the 90'd. My only real advice is don't buy a Universel.

[Jay585]

I've been looking on GunBroker and have noticed two different types.

One has what appears to be an sliding adjustable range rear sight, and the other has a flip sight type deal. Also the former has a bayonet lug and the latter doesn't.

Any opinions on these two? And what are they, a type 1 and type 2?

[Salamander]

Here's a link to a recent review of the new Inland version: https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2016/4/18/inland-mfgs-new-production-m1-carbine/

Note that I just paid less than this for the real thing built in 1943... a lot depends on intended use though.

[Salamander]

I've been looking on GunBroker and have noticed two different types.

One has what appears to be an sliding adjustable range rear sight, and the other has a flip sight type deal. Also the former has a bayonet lug and the latter doesn't.

Any opinions on these two? And what are they, a type 1 and type 2?

The early carbines had the flip sight and no bayonet lug. They also had a push safety. Late in WWII upgrades were made in part to reduce cost but they're also functional to some extent. These included better sights with sliding elevation adjustments and click knob windage adjustments, a mag catch modified to hold the longer and heavier then-new 30-round magazines (indicated by an underlined M) and a flip safety rather than the older push version which was said to be too similar to the mag catch and too easy to hit the wrong one under stress, thus the change to a different direction of travel. The later versions also had a front band with bayonet mount, the usefulness of this feature is arguable on such a short and light rifle.

Many early manufacture carbines, maybe most (and including mine) had the late hardware added during arsenal rebuilds. It's not unusual for collectors to put the old parts back to get a more "correct" build for an early receiver, or in some cases to be able to ask more money for a sale.

I suggest spending some time here http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=6 there's a wealth of knowledge on carbines.

ETA: I just spent a few minutes in Canfield's "Complete Guide to the M1 Garand and the M1 Carbine" and it appears that when each feature changed depended on the manufacturer. The safety was mostly upgraded by sometime in 1943, but everything else was really variable. If it was me, for a shooter I'd prefer something with all the late features mainly because of the fully adjustable sights.

[LittleLebowski]

Got an Inland GM one...in pieces, I need to have it resembled as it's beyond me.

[Ed L]

My last message was a post I had saved from a while ago. I posted it while in a rush to head out of the house.


if the feed ramp area is polished then they are much better with soft points. Do an internet search for the procedure.

From what I have heard it varies from gun to gun. But the gouge on the softpoint is from the top of the chamber. As the one pictured below. That is where it hangs up. That is also where it builds up lead from softpoints and can eventually cause function problems.

18168

Try this--chamber a softpoint in your carbine and then eject it and take a look at the softpoint. If there is a gouge or blunted area that is a clue that it is catching on some area. Even if it does feed the rounds most of the time, there may come a time when it won't. Most people just run a magazine of expensive softpoints through it and call it good.

Another issue is magazines. Some will feed softpoints better than others. Now you wind up having to run 50 rounds through each magazine to make sure it runs with softpoints. This gets time consuming and expensive.

The only round I would think would be viable is the Hornady Critical defense round that has a plastic tip in the hollowpoint to allow better feeding.

[Willard]

OP, I hope you locate a good one. While I would like to own a quality M1 Carbine, and considered it several times, every time I start seriously looking, I determine:

- A forged receiver, quality model will exceed the cost of a basic Colt AR carbine (opportunity cost)
- I am no where as competent with assembly/reassembly/detail stripping/trouble shooting/general "muscle memory" with the M1
- Magazines and parts more expensive, harder to locate, won't be in new condition, the commercial versions may be problematic, and reports of fake USGI magazines (may extend to parts)
- Ammunition is less prolific & more expensive; non FMJ ammo exhibits reduced range & terminal performance
- Reliability likely won't duplicate the Colt
- If a need for optics arises, less options for M1

In summary, when I think of it in terms of actual performance and return on investment, I don't see a plus to the M1, except nostalgia, and I'd rather put my shekels on performance over nostalgia. YMMV.

[Bigghoss]

Does anybody make a reliable 9mm chambered M1 Carbine type rifle?

The only 9mm M1 carbine-styled rifle I know of is from Chiappa and it's a POS. Next closest thing would be a Ruger PC9 carbine or Marlin Camp carbine, both discontinued but easily found. The Marlins are OK AFAIK and the Rugers are pretty good.

[1986s4]

I really like mine. A CMP Underwood marked version. It has had trouble with extraction since I got it. It's seen several smiths who didn't specialize in M1's but what I should do is pack it up and send it back to the CMP gunsmiths.
Ammo costs aren't really all that far off of 5.56/.223. One buys .30 carbine by the 50 round box, most 5.56 is sold by the 20 round box. One can find .30 carbine for aprox $14.00/50 and up online. Comparison to 5.56 per round cost is close depending on the quality of each. I've had good luck with the Keep shooting brand mags, 50/50 with the Korean mags, all my surplus mags are G2G. Spare parts are available.
A very enjoyable carbine to shoot and I suspect at the close ranges it was intended, very effective.

[Coyotesfan97]

I still kick myself for not buying one when they were cheap even at gun shows. :mad:

[Buckshot]

Why are some of you struggling with feeding SPs when we have Gold Dot, Critical Defense & Cor-Bon available for the M1 carbine? They can be tuned up to be reliable with the old exposed lead SPs but if you're using it for defense, come on and join the 21st century.

[Tabasco]

Why are some of you struggling with feeding SPs when we have Gold Dot, Critical Defense & Cor-Bon available for the M1 carbine? They can be tuned up to be reliable with the old exposed lead SPs but if you're using it for defense, come on and join the 21st century.

Ok. I'll admit I have a Universal M1 Carbine. Got it in 1980 when I was 15 and the Internet didn't exist. Who knew? Anyway, it runs just fine with everything except Remington 110 gr. softpoints. They seem to have a blunt profile, more rounded than the FMJ, Gold Dot SP, and other types of FMJ. Seems that after a few rounds, lead builds up on the feed ramp and they start hanging up. A palm to the charging handle and they go into battery and and "Bang!". Getting better with my Dremel at polishing, so when I take it back out sometime in the future, we'll see if that fixes it. I remember AR type rifles having the same problem with lead exposed soft points awhile back. Somewhere. Gold Dot SP rounds seem to work just fine.

[Lester Polfus]

I think the Gold Dot load for M1 carbine is no longer being made, and a quick check of the internet seems to agree with me...

[Buckshot]

It might be only made in small runs - it is still listed in the current Speer LE Catalog

[mrozowjj]

What kind of accuracy can you expect from an M1 carbine? And what's the trajectory like on the .30 carbine? What's a reasonable distance to make hits at? 200? 300?

I've always kind of wanted one but I always put it off because ammo and mags and finding a good one was a bitch and commercial offerings were more expensive.

That Fulton Armory M3 is pimp but it's so much money.

[Trooper224]

Stated max range is 300 yards, but that's rather optimistic. 100 yards and in is more the ideal, with four to six inch groups being average.

[ACP230]

I shot my M1 Carbine in a couple of 200 yard NRA High Power Rifle matches in the '90s.
All the bullets hit the target and none keyholed. My scores were comparable to ones I posted
with an M1 Garand. I don't remember what the group sizes were.

Those on the line, and I, were amused by the pause between the "pop" of the Carbine firing
and the pause between that noise and the slap of the bullet hitting the target. The M1s and
M1As on the line were louder and had no real distance between the muzzle blast and the
impact downrange. In prone brass landed in the middle of my back quite often. Also
amusing to me. Would have been less amusing if I wasn't wearing a shooting jacket.

[mrozowjj]

Stated max range is 300 yards, but that's rather optimistic. 100 yards and in is more the ideal, with four to six inch groups being average.

So basically a PCC

[Jeep]

So basically a PCC

A PCC on steroids. Midway between a PCC and an "assault rifle" cartridge, but faster handling than just about any other long gun you will find.

[willie]

GI ones always shot well and showed decent accuracy with cast bullets. I remember that two friends each had the bolt break but now suspect over pressure hand loads. The military full auto M2 had a rep for breaking bolts. I knew a large number of WW2 and Korean War veterans who had faint praise for them. These little rifles are fun. If you have one that works ok, you have an ideal home defense rifle if certain ammo is used. Universal and Plainfield are two commercial brands from days past. Some worked; many did not. At one time there was a .221 Spitfire version--original case necked down. This is from memory so correct me if I gave the wrong name for the necked down conversion.

[mrozowjj]

Sure sure. I was thinking more in terms of range because it seems slightly more than a PCC. I say this because I can easily hit targets at 100 yards with my Scorpion carbine in 9mm. I haven't pushed it further beyond that though. I'd like to try it at 200 yards but I haven't yet. Power of the round seems somewhere between pistol and a 5.56 rifle round.