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ASH556
07-14-2017, 02:54 PM
In this thread, I'm asking for advice to compare two specific shotguns and determine which is best, most practical, and most cost effective for my needs/wants. I'd like to keep it to a comparison between an 870P trade-in for $265 and a used Benelli M1.

I've owned both 870's and Benellis in the past to include the following:
870 Express VR Chopped
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a351/Bullseye_Doc_Holiday/trial001.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/Bullseye_Doc_Holiday/media/trial001.jpg.html)
870 Wingmaster Rifle-sighted smoothbore
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/1F08A112-069A-4131-9969-87491671A39A.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/1F08A112-069A-4131-9969-87491671A39A.jpg.html)
Benelli M1S90 in multiple configurations
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5542/12207004576_1cbc5c0eca_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/jAG6b9)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/jAG6b9) by ASH556 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/87859750@N03/), on Flickr
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/Benelli%20m1%20resize.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/IMG_8911.jpg
Benelli M1S90 SBS
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/IMG_8111_1.jpg

I no longer own any of these shotguns. In fact, the only shotguns I currently own are a Stevens 311 .410 SXS (rabbits and squirrels) and a couple single-shot break-action 12GA's. So why do I want a shotgun? Well, it's a great social gun, meaning social activities like clays, dove, etc. It's also just a good staple gun to have around like a .22. As for a fighting gun, I think I would probably grab a carbine or pistol first, but I understand the usefulness (and shortcomings) of the shotgun in a fighting role and would like to have at least one.

The fighting to field crossover has always been the main hangup point for me. It used to be that 3gun was another (perhaps the main) factor as well, hence the Benelli configurations. However, with 3 kids now and just frankly "been there, done that, got the t-shirt" I don't really care about shooting 3gun anymore. As far as sporting crossover goes, Benelli barrels are extremely expensive ($350-$500) so it's not just as simple as "buy a used 18" M1 and pick up a 26" field barrel. I found the 21" barrel length to be a good crossover between fighting and sporting, but 21" guns are very hard to find on the used market and command a premium when you do find them. I don't care to spend the $1,200+ on a new 21" M2. So that leaves me with picking up an 18" 870P Trade-in from Summit Gun Broker and then picking up a 26" field barrel. There is one for sale locally for $100 right now; VR, threaded for chokes.

As much as I really love the Benelli platform, at this point I don't really need the performance or the cost. Am I thinking right at all? I plan to leave the 870P bone-stock, load it with 4 rounds of LE1321B, and stick on a velcro saddle with a couple more. When it's time to bust clays or birds, I'll unload the tube, rip the card (saddle) off the receiver, install a plug with the 26" barrel and go. Thoughts?

SeriousStudent
07-14-2017, 03:06 PM
Based on your analysis, I would agree with you. I think that sounds like the most cost-effective solution, and you have thought it through very well.

If you ever decide to resell the shotgun and spare barrel, I do not think you would have any difficulty recovering your costs. Especially with an 870P that has been properly maintained.

And Mark at Summit is a solid guy, as you likely already know.

UNK
07-14-2017, 04:42 PM
NH Shooter has an 1100 that fits both categories. I built mine off of his. You can pick up a good 1100 for 300 do some screw in chokes for less than a hundred and get it back bored for 75. Or you could just buy the choke barrel you want.
Having shot a lot of trap with an 1100 I can personally say 1100 every day all day. I've used it for bird hunting trap and home defense. The most I ever shot in a day was 500 and thats all I wanted. I personally wouldn't want to shoot an 870 over 25 rounds in a day.
And I used a 28" barrel for clays and hunting unless it was goose then it was a 32 inch barrel.

Fordtough25
07-14-2017, 07:04 PM
The 870 sounds like a win, although I do love my 1100 and 11-87 police. You can pick. A used 11-87 up reasonable but not sure on extra barrels. Hard to beat a good pump for cheap fun. Love shotguns and I agree they're great for all kinds of work/social fun.

Shotgun
07-14-2017, 09:05 PM
As much as I really love the Benelli platform, at this point I don't really need the performance or the cost. Am I thinking right at all? I plan to leave the 870P bone-stock, load it with 4 rounds of LE1321B, and stick on a velcro saddle with a couple more. When it's time to bust clays or birds, I'll unload the tube, rip the card (saddle) off the receiver, install a plug with the 26" barrel and go. Thoughts?

Seems like you have already made up your mind between the two guns. While not an ideal clays gun by a long shot, plenty of dove, quail and pheasant have fallen to an 870.

Duelist
07-14-2017, 09:20 PM
I just picked up an Ithaca 37 Featherweight with a skeet choked vent rib field barrel. I may get a shorter tube for social work and such, but I just don't see spending Benelli money for what is, for me, never going to be a primary defense gun. If I spent that much on a shotgun, it would likely have two barrels, fine wood, and maybe an engraved and coin finished receiver. I get the versatility, and I'm willing to explore it, but as of right now, if I grab a defensive long gun, it's gonna have a 30 round magazine.

I'd get that 870, or a Mossberg, or an Ithaca, or something.

coldcase1984
07-15-2017, 09:19 AM
A pawnshop Wingmaster w 20-in. RS RC barrel would work on 90 percent of anything you might need to shotgun. Plus older ones are certainly all steel.

I've shot a lot of crows w my IC RS 870 and a friend's CYL RS M1 Super 90, no problem. Add a 26-in. RC, you're at 110 percent.

ASH556
07-15-2017, 01:36 PM
A pawnshop Wingmaster w 20-in. RS RC barrel would work on 90 percent of anything you might need to shotgun. Plus older ones are certainly all steel.

I've shot a lot of crows w my IC RS 870 and a friend's CYL RS M1 Super 90, no problem. Add a 26-in. RC, you're at 110 percent.

Good input, thanks! I actually ditched the 20" RS Wingmaster shown in my initial post because I found the sights too tall and had to use more of a chin weld than a cheek weld.

pastaslinger
07-15-2017, 08:35 PM
the Franchi Affinity is basically the same as the M2 but much cheaper

HCM
07-15-2017, 10:02 PM
I just picked up an Ithaca 37 Featherweight with a skeet choked vent rib field barrel. I may get a shorter tube for social work and such, but I just don't see spending Benelli money for what is, for me, never going to be a primary defense gun. If I spent that much on a shotgun, it would likely have two barrels, fine wood, and maybe an engraved and coin finished receiver. I get the versatility, and I'm willing to explore it, but as of right now, if I grab a defensive long gun, it's gonna have a 30 round magazine.

I'd get that 870, or a Mossberg, or an Ithaca, or something.

Just FYI on the Ithaca, if it is an older gun, a spare barrel may not be a realistic option. barrels on model 37s made prior to the mid 1960s are not drop in / interchangeable like those of other pump guns or the more modern 37s.

Duelist
07-15-2017, 10:33 PM
Just FYI on the Ithaca, if it is an older gun, a spare barrel may not be a realistic option. barrels on model 37s made prior to the mid 1960s are not drop in / interchangeable like those of other pump guns or the more modern 37s.

Well, if it's not, it's not. It's really in good shape, and it was only $200.00.

HCM
07-15-2017, 10:44 PM
Well, if it's not, it's not. It's really in good shape, and it was only $200.00.

My late father's 37 dates from 1962 or 63, a year or two prior to interchangeable barrels.

scott
07-16-2017, 07:48 PM
My experience has been that, as much as the interchangeable barrels of an 870 or 500 is nice on paper, I don't know anyone who swaps them regularly, and, in addition, a pump gun is a big disadvantage in any of the clay games where you might need more than one shot.
It sounds like you have the defense side covered; go for a benelli with a 26" barrel. You can press it into into defense better than you can press an 18 or 21 inch benelli, or any pump gun, into clay shooting.
Or, although this is outside the scope of the thread, get a reasonable quality o/u for gaming. Horses for courses, and all that.

Lex Luthier
07-16-2017, 10:27 PM
Just FYI on the Ithaca, if it is an older gun, a spare barrel may not be a realistic option. barrels on model 37s made prior to the mid 1960s are not drop in / interchangeable like those of other pump guns or the more modern 37s.

I have a C. 1940 Ithaca 37; I was lucky enough to find a shortened 21" barrel with a serial number within about 10k of the original at a then-local gun shop (Imbert & Smithers, San Carlos, CA, circa 1999.). The headspacing is done at the breech end for pre-1955 guns. If you can find one that is close, it can often be machined to fit properly.

coldcase1984
07-16-2017, 10:46 PM
Good input, thanks! I actually ditched the 20" RS Wingmaster shown in my initial post because I found the sights too tall and had to use more of a chin weld than a cheek weld.
I piggybacked a couple of Cheekeez pads onto the comb to get good weld. Learned about those trying to help poor kids on my SCTP team be competitive w the rich kids shooting actual trap guns...got them on several rifles and shotguns now.

HCM
07-16-2017, 11:13 PM
My experience has been that, as much as the interchangeable barrels of an 870 or 500 is nice on paper, I don't know anyone who swaps them regularly, and, in addition, a pump gun is a big disadvantage in any of the clay games where you might need more than one shot.
It sounds like you have the defense side covered; go for a benelli with a 26" barrel. You can press it into into defense better than you can press an 18 or 21 inch benelli, or any pump gun, into clay shooting.
Or, although this is outside the scope of the thread, get a reasonable quality o/u for gaming. Horses for courses, and all that.

I swap out my 18" Benelli barrel for the 26" every dove season.

HCM
07-16-2017, 11:16 PM
I swap out my 18" Benelli barrel for the 26" every dove season.

A pump may be a disadvantage for formal clay bird competitions but for hunting or casual clay bird busting they are just fine, especially if you can actually run a pump gun, which like properly running a bolt gun or a manual transmission is an increasingly rare skill.

HCM
07-16-2017, 11:17 PM
I piggybacked a couple of Cheekeez pads onto the comb to get good weld. Learned about those trying to help poor kids on my SCTP team be competitive w the rich kids shooting actual trap guns...got them on several rifles and shotguns now.

Magpul stock can fix that.

Lester Polfus
07-16-2017, 11:17 PM
I've routinely thrown my 28" barrel on my 500 for appropriate activities, and back when I still hunted with modern firearms, often hunted my property with a rifled slug barrel with a cantilever scope mount that I had chopped to 19".

Duelist
07-17-2017, 01:08 AM
I have a C. 1940 Ithaca 37; I was lucky enough to find a shortened 21" barrel with a serial number within about 10k of the original at a then-local gun shop (Imbert & Smithers, San Carlos, CA, circa 1999.). The headspacing is done at the breech end for pre-1955 guns. If you can find one that is close, it can often be machined to fit properly.

To continue the derailment: how does one tell how old an Ithaca 37 is?

I bought this because it is nice looking, feels great, is in great shape, is made of steel and walnut and nothing else, and was $200 versus the $800 they want for a new one.

I know little to nothing else about them. I didn't even have any 12g ammo - my only shotgun before this is a 20g Spanish side by side.

18170
18171
18172

HCM
07-17-2017, 02:29 AM
To continue the derailment: how does one tell how old an Ithaca 37 is?

I bought this because it is nice looking, feels great, is in great shape, is made of steel and walnut and nothing else, and was $200 versus the $800 they want for a new one.

I know little to nothing else about them. I didn't even have any 12g ammo - my only shotgun before this is a 20g Spanish side by side.

18170
18171
18172

Not sure if that is your serial number.

On the current Model 37 the serial number is located on the bottom right side of the receiver or on earlier models the chamber end of the receiver between the magazine and barrel.

http://ithacagunrepair.com/IGSN/IGSN.html

http://www.ithacagun.com/pdfs/serialnumbers.pdf

Duelist
07-17-2017, 03:30 AM
Not sure if that is your serial number.

On the current Model 37 the serial number is located on the bottom right side of the receiver or on earlier models the chamber end of the receiver between the magazine and barrel.

http://ithacagunrepair.com/IGSN/IGSN.html

http://www.ithacagun.com/pdfs/serialnumbers.pdf

The number shown is the only number I could find before, and is stamped on the barrel. However, on the end of the receiver, as you described, is stamped the same number, so I will assume that it is, in fact, the serial.

Thanks! According to the references you gave, my gun is a Skeet model, and is one of the last of that model produced. It's serial number dates to 1953. In pretty fly shape for a gun 9 years younger than my father!

I think it will be a fair-weather, nice area quail and dove gun, maybe a pheasant or two, and obviously, it must get in some rounds of skeet.

NH Shooter
07-17-2017, 05:54 AM
NH Shooter has an 1100 that fits both categories.

Thanks for the mention!

I took a 1187 Premier (polished blue metal and shiny wood furniture) with a 28" vent rib barrel (pressure compensating version), cut the barrel to 18-3/4", took an inch off the back of the stock and did the usual action tweaks (Wolff spring, upgraded follower, etc.). I also had the barrel rethreaded to accept the RemChokes it came with. It shoots everything well, including the Federal LE reduced-recoil buckshot and slug loads that I keep handy for quick deployment. She swings fast and is hell on skeet. :-)

I too would reach for my carbine first but would not feel at disadvantage in a closer range skirmish.

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-8.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-4.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-9.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-12.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-15.jpg

Jared
07-17-2017, 06:12 AM
I did something pretty similar not too long ago. I found an old Wingmaster that had already had the barrel shortened and threaded for Tru-Chokes. So I had it cut all the way back to 20" and left at Cylinder bore with a new bead out on. At the same time I got an old Vent rib 26" IC fixed choke barrel. Also had the old recoil pad replaced. Out the door for about $100 more than a new 870 Express costs at Walmart with a much much better gauge.

It's not my only shotgun, but it'll do 99.9% of what I actually do with one.

coldcase1984
07-17-2017, 07:31 AM
Thanks for the mention!

I took a 1187 Premier (polished blue metal and shiny wood furniture) with a 28" vent rib barrel (pressure compensating version), cut the barrel to 18-3/4", took an inch off the back of the stock and did the usual action tweaks (Wolff spring, upgraded follower, etc.). I also had the barrel rethreaded to accept the RemChokes it came with. It shoots everything well, including the Federal LE reduced-recoil buckshot and slug loads that I keep handy for quick deployment. She swings fast and is hell on skeet. :-)

I too would reach for my carbine first but would not feel at disadvantage in a closer range skirmish.

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-8.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-4.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-9.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-12.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-15.jpg

Great illustration why fighting guns don't have to be FBPPs (Flat Black People Poppers)! Bill Jordan and Charles Askins Jr. would have been proud to have one like that down on the River.

Trukinjp13
07-17-2017, 02:25 PM
I have a old school ithaca 16 gauge. Love that shotgun. But the cartridge stop has failed on it. Need to order a new one. Try to rack a round and it always doubles. Spined my first buck with a slug outta that gun


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

45dotACP
07-17-2017, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the mention!

I took a 1187 Premier (polished blue metal and shiny wood furniture) with a 28" vent rib barrel (pressure compensating version), cut the barrel to 18-3/4", took an inch off the back of the stock and did the usual action tweaks (Wolff spring, upgraded follower, etc.). I also had the barrel rethreaded to accept the RemChokes it came with. It shoots everything well, including the Federal LE reduced-recoil buckshot and slug loads that I keep handy for quick deployment. She swings fast and is hell on skeet. :-)

I too would reach for my carbine first but would not feel at disadvantage in a closer range skirmish.

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-8.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-4.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-9.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-12.jpg

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-15.jpg
I just came for the photos of this gun

RONK
07-17-2017, 07:22 PM
NH Shooter,you sir deserve a big pat on the back,you did a truly outstanding job.

NH Shooter
07-17-2017, 08:30 PM
NH Shooter,you sir deserve a big pat on the back,you did a truly outstanding job.

Thanks to all for your feedback!

I had purchased this 1187 back in the 90s and other than some occasional skeet killing, it remained mostly a forgotten safe queen. It was a fun project and came out better than expected.

I also have a FBPP version (aka 1187P) but I prefer "HD Premier" version.

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187p-1.jpg


The 1187 sisters;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187s-1.jpg

DamonL
07-28-2017, 11:57 AM
ASH556

Late to the game but here is a thought. With kids and such, it is sometimes hard to come up with gun money. I think if you can swing a Benelli to go for it. There are advantages to a semi for defensive use and competition activities that you might try again when the kids are into guns when they are older. :)

You will always be able to find a pump shotgun cheap somewhere. If you are not in a rush, you can get one later to use for field and skeet and trap. I think those two guns would cover all your bases guns.

NH Shooter
08-12-2017, 08:29 AM
Also, be sure to bring enough light. :-)

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-32.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-31.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/1187-30.jpg

Dagga Boy
08-12-2017, 09:28 AM
I really love that gun. In my book of tears was a SKB from the mid 80's. French Walnut, black chrome, and just fancy but wicked. Your gun reminds me a lot of that one.

RevolverRob
08-12-2017, 09:59 AM
24" Beretta 1301 Comp. Capable of clays, capable of defense, a little longer, but not too long.

I find myself in a similar boat overall. I really want to pick up a new shotgun for clays and some upland bird hunting, but I have to justify a double-duty defensive gun, because it's otherwise too expensive. So, what do I do? I'm leaning towards a 21"-24" Beretta 1301, but I'm not sold on it yet. Partly, because I am thinking about getting a double gun and partly because I'm still very much excited for and hoping that the Crye Precision Six12 actually drops by Q4 of this year (though that means missing upland bird season this year).

NH Shooter
08-12-2017, 11:20 AM
In my book of tears was a SKB from the mid 80's.

In mine is a HK91 I purchased new in the early 90s. I had the HK bipod, claw scope mount and some extra mags. I sold it shortly after Bubba's AWB went into affect for more than I paid for it, but for only a fraction of what it is now worth.