Shockwave vs Tac-14

[UNK]

Wanted to start a thread on these two jewels.
Like to hear if you are interested, planning to buy, have bought, shooting impressions etc etc.
https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/
18066
https://www.remington.com/other-products/model-870-tac-14
18067

Clint Smith video

https://youtu.be/fM_sqSTg2v8

Hickok45

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxECBq-f68s

[Willard]

On the Mossberg version, I'm wondering if it has a plastic trigger guard and safety or aluminum. On the Remington side, I am betting it has express internals that would need upgrading to police model specs. Both would likely need tweaks. I'm interested once TX makes them legal 1 Sept.

[Drang]

On the Mossberg version, I'm wondering if it has a plastic trigger guard and safety or aluminum.
A "standard" 590 has metal trigger guard and safety, I would ass-you-me the Shockwave would as well.

[JHC]

The Mossie on my short list. For a fun gun of this ilk I prefer the old school styling of it.

[Bigghoss]

It's pretty much the 870 vs 500 debate. My preference is for Mossbergs so I want to get the Shockwave.

[1slow]

My 870 Tac 14 has plastic triggerguard. I fitted a Vang safety, Wilson +1 mag extension and am putting in a Volquartsen extractor. I used a round rod mandrel and a smooth face hammer to remove the magazine tube dents. Basic hammer and dolly work.

About 70 rounds of buckshot is about all I wanted to shoot at one time. Federal 15 pellet #1B (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1B) seems to pattern as well as with an 18" barrel.

I went 870 because of 40+ years of using them. Really wish they had built it on a police model.

[Willard]

A "standard" 590 has metal trigger guard and safety, I would ass-you-me the Shockwave would as well.

I thought that was the 590A1, but 590 was still plastic?

[coldcase1984]

I've a 18.5 500 ATP Mossberg bought for $119 on sale in Yuba City CA BigR store in 1979. Great for rabbits in brush or skeet if you're not refined.

Haven't fooled with it in years.

May try the concept in a longer hybrid: Shockwave Grip and Magpul forearm. Could always do a AOW for $5 and an 8-month wait.

Call it the Shock-TAC.

Dip it Kryptek Inferno or Yeti; make folks uneasy.

[SeriousStudent]

On the Mossberg version, I'm wondering if it has a plastic trigger guard and safety or aluminum. On the Remington side, I am betting it has express internals that would need upgrading to police model specs. Both would likely need tweaks. I'm interested once TX makes them legal 1 Sept.

As a Texas resident, I would appreciate any info you could share. I have had a half-dozen friends ask me about this, and would love a link to the specific law. Was it something in the last legislative session that Gov. Abbott just signed?

Thanks very much for the heads up, and stay safe.

[Lester Polfus]

I thought that was the 590A1, but 590 was still plastic?

That is correct, although I have seen one 590 that came from the factory with metal.

[Willard]

As a Texas resident, I would appreciate any info you could share. I have had a half-dozen friends ask me about this, and would love a link to the specific law. Was it something in the last legislative session that Gov. Abbott just signed?

Thanks very much for the heads up, and stay safe.

Serious, it was HB 1819 85R signed by Governor Abbott. Here is a link to the language: http://www.legis.texas.gov/tlodocs/85R/billtext/html/HB01819F.htm and an article from TTAG: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/06/chris-heuss/texas-hb-1819-85r/

[Willard]

Plastic.



That's what I assumed until I saw one in person.


Thanks for clarifying that Tom.

[SeriousStudent]

Serious, it was HB 1819 85R signed by Governor Abbott. Here is a link to the language: http://www.legis.texas.gov/tlodocs/85R/billtext/html/HB01819F.htm and an article from TTAG: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/06/chris-heuss/texas-hb-1819-85r/

Thanks, that is very kind of you.

[Fordtough25]

I thought that was the 590A1, but 590 was still plastic?

Yes you are correct, my 590a1 is all metal where as my 590 is not.

[Willard]

Thanks, that is very kind of you.

You're most welcome.

[Willard]

You're welcome. BTW, you can buy the metal trigger assembly from Brownells (http://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/trigger-guard-parts/trigger-guards/mossberg-trigger-assembly-sku631000337-24369-51007.aspx) for about 40% the purchase price of the Shockwave.

Good tip. Thanks for that too Tom.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170714/bc1b32db1805a4921c2ebaf6f82d8cf6.jpg

I'm an 870 fan. Especially in the Tac14/Shockwave/Stakeout (this is the Stakeout) I think it fills an interesting niche.


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[Drang]

I thought that was the 590A1, but 590 was still plastic?

I thought a metal triggerguard was one of the differences between 500s and 590s.
Huh.

[UNK]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170714/bc1b32db1805a4921c2ebaf6f82d8cf6.jpg

I'm an 870 fan. Especially in the Tac14/Shockwave/Stakeout (this is the Stakeout) I think it fills an interesting niche.


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Nice. Thanks for posting. What is the difference between the stakeout and the tac 14? Is that a 4 or 5 shot version? Is that factory porting?

[Hambo]

For a fun gun of this ilk I prefer the old school styling of it.

I've got to admit my fascination with short 870s goes back to the USMS 12" 870s and that has made me rethink the Shockwave. Because I'm kind of cheap, a LE trade in 870, AOW, and a hacksaw would scratch my itch for less than the 14" Mossberg or Remington.

[farscott]

Nice. Thanks for posting. What is the difference between the stakeout and the tac 14? Is that a 4 or 5 shot version? Is that factory porting?

The "Stakeout" is a TAC-14 with some additional work by Suarez International, and the porting is an option from Suarez on other 870 barrels. https://suarezinternational.com/remington-870-stakeout-12-gauge-tier-one/ and https://suarezinternational.com/modify-your-870-barrel-to-14-stakeout/

[JHC]

I do like 870s though. Are the street prices of both turning out pretty similiar?

Ole Hickock hit pretty well with those slugs too! WAY out.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Nice. Thanks for posting. What is the difference between the stakeout and the tac 14? Is that a 4 or 5 shot version? Is that factory porting?

It is a custom Tac14 from Suarez International. It has porting, backboring, FO front, oversized safety, upgraded trigger group, texturing and some kind of rust resistant coating.


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[UNK]

It is a custom Tac14 from Suarez International. It has porting, backboring, FO front, oversized safety, upgraded trigger group, texturing and some kind of rust resistant coating.


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Went to his website. Sweet sweet gun. Thats a tempting combo. Funny most guns I don't care what they look like but a shotgun is a different story. I think the plain barrel model would look great in wood with the ribbed forend.

18112

What do you think of the hand strap? And the rib? Do you find it very helpful? Trying to balance one against the other here. I can get a barrel ported and backbored for 175 but that rib changes the whole gun. What is the POI on that gun in yards?

[voodoo_man]

I want either as an under steering wheel gun...

[Totem Polar]

It is a custom Tac14 from Suarez International. It has porting, backboring, FO front, oversized safety, upgraded trigger group, texturing and some kind of rust resistant coating.


You can take the boy out of the armored truck, but you can't take the armored truck out of the boy

[Bigghoss]

What do you think of the hand strap? And the rib? Do you find it very helpful? Trying to balance one against the other here. I can get a barrel ported and backbored for 175 but that rib changes the whole gun. What is the POI on that gun in yards?

I haven't shot one myself but having watched a few videos of them online I'm convinced some sort of strap is an extremely good idea. The one on the Suarez looks like it would be uncomfortable. I wish Mossberg had used a Magpul fore end with a strap instead of their typical corncob one.

[coldcase1984]

Sherman, did you fab the hand strap? If so, describe parts, etc. ?

I could really use something like that on my work 870 which now has a 12.5 in. Witness Protection Scattergun Technologies barrel on it. Muzzle is flush with front of Magpul forearm. Needta find the original wood Wit Pro grip.

[UNK]

Sherman, did you fab the hand strap? If so, describe parts, etc. ?

I could really use something like that on my work 870 which now has a 12.5 in. Witness Protection Scattergun Technologies barrel on it. Muzzle is flush with front of Magpul forearm. Needta find the original wood Wit Pro grip.

He got the gun from Shotgun Dynamics a division of Suarez international. The strap is an option. https://suarezinternational.com/shotgun-dynamics/ Customer service is mon - fri 10:00 am- 5:00 pm "Arizona" time. No kidding thats what it said on their recording. The cs number is (928) 776-4492

[UNK]

I haven't shot one myself but having watched a few videos of them online I'm convinced some sort of strap is an extremely good idea. The one on the Suarez looks like it would be uncomfortable. I wish Mossberg had used a Magpul fore end with a strap instead of their typical corncob one.

In Hickock45s video he said it was uncomfortable and he removed it from the mossberg. The one that Sherman has uses sling swivels which looks like it could be painful too.

[coldcase1984]

I want either as an under steering wheel gun...
Wouldn't be bad overhead in vehicle w magnets...;)

[UNK]

Wouldn't be bad overhead in vehicle w magnets...;)

How is that set up? I am genuinely interested. How do you keep it from becoming a projectile in a wreck. What happens if you shoot steel shot? Does it turn you into some kind of superhero magnet man? :cool:

[RMF]

I haven't shot one myself but having watched a few videos of them online I'm convinced some sort of strap is an extremely good idea. The one on the Suarez looks like it would be uncomfortable. I wish Mossberg had used a Magpul fore end with a strap instead of their typical corncob one.

I'm still debating on adding a foreend strap to my Tac 14; the m-lock swivels look to be uncomfortable and there isn't enough room to add a M-lock handstop and two swivels mounts. Right now I'm thinking of adding M-lock handguard to the handgrip, a Vang Comp +1 with a vertical sling mount, add a Limited travel OD sling hook to the rear of the Shockwave grip; by adding a sling I think this should pretty do the same as the handgrip strap.

[BillSWPA]

I cannot imagine the sling being less comfortable than getting one's hand shot off if it slips in front of the barrel. This issue is real. I have read posts describing and seen photos showing severe damage to what was left of spmeone's hand after a Kel-Tec KSG had a vertical grip break off the pump handle.



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[Lester Polfus]

As someone who once got his hand in front of the muzzle of a 14" shotgun that had a round in the chamber and the safety off, I won't run one without a hand stop or strap.

[UNK]

I cannot imagine the sling being less comfortable than getting one's hand shot off if it slips in front of the barrel. This issue is real. I have read posts describing and seen photos showing severe damage to what was left of spmeone's hand after a Kel-Tec KSG had a vertical grip break off the pump handle.



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https://www.thegunwriter.com/19139/another-devastating-kel-tec-ksg-injury/
18132

[Sherman A. House DDS]

You can take the boy out of the armored truck, but you can't take the armored truck out of the boy

Quite true. Despite my current vocation, shotgun riding is in my DNA, now.


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[Sherman A. House DDS]

Went to his website. Sweet sweet gun. Thats a tempting combo. Funny most guns I don't care what they look like but a shotgun is a different story. I think the plain barrel model would look great in wood with the ribbed forend.

18112

What do you think of the hand strap? And the rib? Do you find it very helpful? Trying to balance one against the other here. I can get a barrel ported and backbored for 175 but that rib changes the whole gun. What is the POI on that gun in yards?

I think it's useful. And here's why...

Stay with me here. When I'm drilling a hole in someone's tooth, I use what is called a, "finger rest," which means that I'm resting all the weight of my hand on the fingers I'm NOT using for a pinch grip, to stabilize the drill (it's actually called a rotary handpiece). I do this so if there is an earthquake (happened in TX...fracking) the power goes out (happened in nashville) or if an assistant or staff member bumps into me (happens daily), I don't get bumped off course and park the drill bit in the wrong angle at best, or into your eye (at worst).

I look at the handstrap and handstop in a similar way. Do I NEED them? For normal shooting, probably no. But if I need to use this gun IN EXTREMIS, it is designed for that purpose, and thus those features could prevent a negative outcome. If I get into a ECQC fight, and I get tied up and end up shooting my left hand away, it still, "counts," as a loss in my eyes. So, I use them, and I find value in them. Yes, there is an added expense, of a hundred dollars or so, but my left hand alone makes me several hundred thousand dollars a year that I would like to continue, thus, I consider the expense to be justified and prudent.


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[Sherman A. House DDS]

Sherman, did you fab the hand strap? If so, describe parts, etc. ?

I could really use something like that on my work 870 which now has a 12.5 in. Witness Protection Scattergun Technologies barrel on it. Muzzle is flush with front of Magpul forearm. Needta find the original wood Wit Pro grip.

Negative Sir. Got it from Suarez.


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[Sherman A. House DDS]

Went to his website. Sweet sweet gun. Thats a tempting combo. Funny most guns I don't care what they look like but a shotgun is a different story. I think the plain barrel model would look great in wood with the ribbed forend.

18112

What do you think of the hand strap? And the rib? Do you find it very helpful? Trying to balance one against the other here. I can get a barrel ported and backbored for 175 but that rib changes the whole gun. What is the POI on that gun in yards?

Also, the rib is just another way of providing correct vertical reference since you're missing the additional points of contact that a stock affords. So yes...I think it's valuable.

POI in yards...do you mean the pattern size?


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[Rex G]

Regarding the discomfort of the swivels used to attached the strap to the fore-end: Some old-school Laser Products/Surefire shotgun fore-end Weaponlights, such as the one on my wife's 870, attached the strap with small bolts. (Her "Baby" has an 18" barrel.) I see no reason this cannot be user-replicated with Magpul fore-ends, by drilling holes in the ample real estate available. I might dispense with the bolts, and use paracord lacing.

[UNK]

Also, the rib is just another way of providing correct vertical reference since you're missing the additional points of contact that a stock affords. So yes...I think it's valuable.

POI in yards...do you mean the pattern size?


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I handled a shockwave today and immediately saw that a rib would be a nice addition.

At what yardage do POA/POI converge? When a rib is installed on a shotgun they ask you what yardage you want this convergence to be. I was wondering how it is set on yours.

So the strap set up on the suarez gun doesn't cause discomfort while shooting? If you get time could you post a better pic of the strap setup?

[UNK]

Regarding the discomfort of the swivels used to attached the strap to the fore-end: Some old-school Laser Products/Surefire shotgun fore-end Weaponlights, such as the one on my wife's 870, attached the strap with small bolts. (Her "Baby" has an 18" barrel.) I see no reason this cannot be user-replicated with Magpul fore-ends, by drilling holes in the ample real estate available. I might dispense with the bolts, and use paracord lacing.

If you have time could you post a pic?

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I handled a shockwave today and immediately saw that a rib would be a nice addition.

At what yardage do POA/POI converge? When a rib is installed on a shotgun they ask you what yardage you want this convergence to be. I was wondering how it is set on yours.

So the strap set up on the suarez gun doesn't cause discomfort while shooting? If you get time could you post a better pic of the strap setup?

I don't know about the rob convergence. When I pattern a gun, I aim at the "-O" on the IDPA target. If the pattern dissolves the POA out to 10 yards, and keeps everything else in that 8" circle out to 25, I don't get much more analytical than that.

As far as discomfort goes, I mean, it's a short shotgun. I would equate the discomfort I get to be equal to what I feel with lifting heavily knurled 35 pound dumbells after a session. Comfortable? No? Tolerable? Yes. Will they raise a callouse or cause an abrasion? Sometimes. Nut up a little, rub some dirt on it, and press on.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170715/d2cfe0400c40a9ae6f1e260706b60672.jpg


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[UNK]

I don't know about the rob convergence. When I pattern a gun, I aim at the "-O" on the IDPA target. If the pattern dissolves the POA out to 10 yards, and keeps everything else in that 8" circle out to 25, I don't get much more analytical than that.

As far as discomfort goes, I mean, it's a short shotgun. I would equate the discomfort I get to be equal to what I feel with lifting heavily knurled 35 pound dumbells after a session. Comfortable? No? Tolerable? Yes. Will they raise a callouse or cause an abrasion? Sometimes. Nut up a little, rub some dirt on it, and press on.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170715/d2cfe0400c40a9ae6f1e260706b60672.jpg


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Thanks a lot Mr House. Most helpful. I thought wrongly that the slings keepers themselves would be painful. Great pic.

[UNK]

Sherman, did you fab the hand strap? If so, describe parts, etc. ?

I could really use something like that on my work 870 which now has a 12.5 in. Witness Protection Scattergun Technologies barrel on it. Muzzle is flush with front of Magpul forearm. Needta find the original wood Wit Pro grip.

That is an awesome gun. Could you take a pic of the hand stop/sling holder? Also does yours have screw in chokes?

[part-time shooter]

I just picked up a Shockwave instead of the Tac-14, the Mossberg can shoot the 1.75 inch shells with a $10 adapter from OPsol, and does so with this particular gun with no issues. Recoil isn't bad as the guns not mounted against anything but your hand and moves freely. I'm not sure I'd use these little shells off the range but with with the OPsol adapter in place the Shockwave holds 10 rounds in the gun. I'm adding a big dot front sight over the factory bead and a generic web sling and shooting it that way. I actually like the standard corn cob forend on the Shockwave better than the magpul, it brings the bulk on the front of the gun down. The way Mossberg attached the strap on the Shockwave would work find on the Magpul forend as well, just drill the holes, the mossberg method is about as low tech as you can imagine.

It fits in or on a standard day pack or in your boat or truck with no issues. I can see this gun making a lot of trips with me a standard shotgun wouldn't.

[NoLock]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TACCOM-Remington-TAC-14-MAGPUL-forearm-strap-Shockwave-/282571736491?hash=item41ca9685ab:g:cxQAAOSwTY9ZaTZ l

Wonder if this works better on a Magpul forearm than the hand strap setup that comes with a Mossberg shockwave.

[part-time shooter]

It looks smoother on the bottom than the Mossberg strap, the screw heads are side by side on the shockwave instead of inline like those are on the magpul strap you linked.

[Wondering Beard]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/20108361_10213848802033688_3026688154127026042_n.j pg

[Bratch]

I'm kicking around the idea of getting one of these. I won a $200 gift card to the local shop and they have a Shockwave on the shelf for $400.

I usually prefer an 870 but I don't know if or when they'll get a Tac14 in stock.

I have no idea what I need this for but have loved them since I first saw one.

What says the brain trust? Jump on the Shockwave for $200 out of pocket, wait on the Tac14 or find something else to burn my money on.

[shooter220]

I'm kicking around the idea of getting one of these. I won a $200 gift card to the local shop and they have a Shockwave on the shelf for $400.

I usually prefer an 870 but I don't know if or when they'll get a Tac14 in stock.

I have no idea what I need this for but have loved them since I first saw one.

What says the brain trust? Jump on the Shockwave for $200 out of pocket, wait on the Tac14 or find something else to burn my money on.

Part of me thinks these are a cheap way to start into an SBS world - get it, play with it for awhile, if you do want to make an SBS you will be into it for just over $600 depending on what stock you decide to buy after you pay the BATFE.

[willie]

I must confess. For a very long time I have loved pistol gripped shotguns but usually don't advertise the fact. The truth is that I have wasted so much ammo playing with them.
My favorite is a 20ga version, and yes, I can shoot one ok. I have both on order at my lgs and will buy the first one that arrives. My preference is Mossberg. It is true that they will not be legal in Texas until some date in September, and it's also true that I'll buy one in August if it come in. They're made in Texas. If you call Mossberg and ask if they're legal here, the question will confuse the person you talk to so don't bother calling. So what will I do with mine? I'll put it in my sock drawer where it belongs. Low recoil buckshot will do nicely. The folks who fire mini shotshells in theirs will find that these things kick too. I burned up a case in various other shotguns and failed to understand their utility. You might. I did not. Oh. I bet a Shockwave will would make a good club--like an entrench tool did for some veterans. A very good friend who served in Vietnam told me that the only NVA that he is certain that he killed was killed with an E tool. I didn't fully understand this reply and never asked for an explanation. But, if you put lead in your Shockwave handle then you...

[RMF]

Finally had a chance to try out my Tac-14 for the first time. It's surprisingly easy to get some good center mass hits on targets at the 7-10 yd range. I think these 'firearms' have a more uses than just a 'range toy'

[Poconnor]

I picked up a tac-14 this week. I am thinking about adding a short picatinny rail at 6:00 for an x300, adding the safety strap and a plus one magazine extension with the sling at 9:00. I haven't decided on a rear sling point yet. The XS big dot looks like a good addition but I don't want tritium.

[Bratch]

I picked up a Shockwave but it's going to be a few weeks before I get to shoot it any. Just handling around the house it definitely feels like it'd be handy as a travel/truck gun.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I put 100 through my 870 Stakeout today. After shooting an Express pack of slugs through it, I removed the hand strap. It didn't eat me up or erode the tissue of my left hand, but it pinched and wasn't pleasant. It was also fun and easy to hold onto without the strap. I REALLY dig this gun. You can really OWN anything you can see inside the parking lot/peri-vehicular window. I'm glad a have it, and I'll probably get another.


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[Edster]

Maybe an often-asked question: If one had an 870P and was thinking about starting the legal and procurement processes to SBS it, would you say stay the course or consider one of these?

[Bigghoss]

Maybe an often-asked question: If one had an 870P and was thinking about starting the legal and procurement processes to SBS it, would you say stay the course or consider one of these?

Do you mean as opposed to an SBS or get one to SBS instead of SBS'ing the 870?

A stock is always better than no stock. A shockwave or a Tac-14 is no replacement for an SBS. They have their place but an SBS with a stock is much better if you can get one.

Now as a base for an SBS I think it might be easier to get a tac-14 and slap a stock on than find a 14" barrel. Cheaper too. Then again, Remington's quality has been suspect lately. I would grab the Tac-14 and run it as is to confirm reliability (which you would do anyway) and go from there.

[Edster]

Do you mean as opposed to an SBS or get one to SBS instead of SBS'ing the 870?

A stock is always better than no stock. A shockwave or a Tac-14 is no replacement for an SBS. They have their place but an SBS with a stock is much better if you can get one.

Now as a base for an SBS I think it might be easier to get a tac-14 and slap a stock on than find a 14" barrel. Cheaper too. Then again, Remington's quality has been suspect lately. I would grab the Tac-14 and run it as is to confirm reliability (which you would do anyway) and go from there.

I meant continue with the plan to use the existing 870P as the basis for an SBS.

The alternative was look into a Tac-14 and forego the SBS entirely. By my math, a new Tac-14 by itself costs about the same as a tax stamp and barrel for an existing shotgun.

Your answer covered it. Thank you!

[Sherman A. House DDS]

After a few hundred more rounds, I changed a couple things.

First, I ditched the Magpul forend all together. Switched to a Hogue overmolded forend. I like the more compact size of it, and I also like how, "grippy," or tacky it is.

I also ditched the FO front tube. Although it was screwed in and loctited in place, after about 60 rounds, it would start to spin out of its hole which was annoying. Also, the porting deposits a bunch of carbon soot, out of the ports and boom, onto the FO tube. Not a show stopper, but annoying. So I put a big, fat, brass bead in its place. I also appreciate the texturing on the grip, and if you have one, you would too. But I'm going to dumb it down with my mouse sander a bit on the web of my thumb contact area, as it gets eaten up raw by the texture. I put my hands into the mouths of HIV and Hepatitis patients regularly, and would rather avoid taking home any non-paying passengers (also why I shoot M&P's over Glocks...the M&P's don't damage my hands).

Mind you, I've never worked with a shotgun of this type before. I previously have shot conventionally equipped 870's extensively, for work and training, but nothing this short.

But I'm a high volume user. I've put between 200-350 rounds through this thing every trip to the range, recently, refining technique. And I like it.

As weaponcraft is a personal deal, you may find comfort and security in the hand strap concept of various executions. I'm quite content with the rubberized forend and the handstop/sling attachment point. I keep my hand firmly clamped on the proximal half of the forend, simply to prevent my thumb from getting near the porting.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170903/2f177e9e7b4e49c655a8505a2df37c69.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170903/6dc8537bbdb670a9800f06c811e9d571.jpg


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[Sherman A. House DDS]

One other thing...I have been getting good results using the Walmart Remington Express Brand OO Buckshot in this gal. I like the less constricted pattern, and I feel that's a bit more conducive to what this weapon's performance envelope is. With Federal Flite control, the pattern is great, but the spread is SO minimal, it's like shooting a pistol gripped rifle...less than ideal. But with the, "free range," Buckshot, the pattern is more conventional in shape and density, as well as spread. And, like I said, that's good.


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[Hambo]

One other thing...I have been getting good results using the Walmart Remington Express Brand OO Buckshot in this gal. I like the less constricted pattern, and I feel that's a bit more conducive to what this weapon's performance envelope is. With Federal Flite control, the pattern is great, but the spread is SO minimal, it's like shooting a pistol gripped rifle...less than ideal. But with the, "free range," Buckshot, the pattern is more conventional in shape and density, as well as spread. And, like I said, that's good.

I read someone else saying that same thing and I don't get it. It sounds like the old "can't miss with a shotgun" idea, but maybe I'm missing something.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I read someone else saying that same thing and I don't get it. It sounds like the old "can't miss with a shotgun" idea, but maybe I'm missing something.

At the ranges I intend to use this, I'd rather have a volleyball size pattern (Express OO) than a baseball sized pattern (Federal Flite Control). Of course, if I spring for the tax stamp, and make this an SBS by adding a stock, I'll go back to the Federal Flite Control. BUT, with the short(ER) sight radius, and fewer points of contact, the wider pattern is an asset, I feel. Because you truly can, if you aren't very precise, "miss with a shotgun." Make sense?


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[Hambo]

At the ranges I intend to use this, I'd rather have a volleyball size pattern (Express OO) than a baseball sized pattern (Federal Flite Control). Of course, if I spring for the tax stamp, and make this an SBS by adding a stock, I'll go back to the Federal Flite Control. BUT, with the short(ER) sight radius, and fewer points of contact, the wider pattern is an asset, I feel. Because you truly can, if you aren't very precise, "miss with a shotgun." Make sense?

Yes and no. Meaning that I understand your point, but the contradiction makes my head hurt. These shotguns are tough to aim, so you're hoping that you get a few 00 where they will do some good with a less than optimal hit. Yet you wouldn't accept that from a full stock shotgun. The question is: why go there at all?

These shotguns, sorry, firearms, are no doubt fun, but I don't see myself using one for defense.

[Gabe Suarez]

At the ranges I intend to use this, I'd rather have a volleyball size pattern (Express OO) than a baseball sized pattern (Federal Flite Control). Of course, if I spring for the tax stamp, and make this an SBS by adding a stock, I'll go back to the Federal Flite Control. BUT, with the short(ER) sight radius, and fewer points of contact, the wider pattern is an asset, I feel. Because you truly can, if you aren't very precise, "miss with a shotgun." Make sense?


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Howdy Sherman. I actually considered the Hogue but supply on those was spotty. And by spotty, I mean I couldn't buy 50 at a time. We just did the first shotgun class in about six years. Interesting stuff seen. I am posting a video for educational purposes only. It has footage from the class. In particular is one gent that is a new PGO/Shockwave shooter. He is firing slugs at 25 yards with it, which I think is pretty good.

We had a type of buckshot I was not aware of called "Spartan". It was relatively soft shooting and had great patterns. Oh...on the grip...one gent had dipped his Shockwave in that rubberized stuff they use for tool. Interesting application for a rubbery-grippy type grip.


https://youtu.be/kUlEtcm6hQ4

This was #1 Reduced Recoil Buck.

19890

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Howdy Sherman. I actually considered the Hogue but supply on those was spotty. And by spotty, I mean I couldn't buy 50 at a time. We just did the first shotgun class in about six years. Interesting stuff seen. I am posting a video for educational purposes only. It has footage from the class. In particular is one gent that is a new PGO/Shockwave shooter. He is firing slugs at 25 yards with it, which I think is pretty good.

We had a type of buckshot I was not aware of called "Spartan". It was relatively soft shooting and had great patterns. Oh...on the grip...one gent had dipped his Shockwave in that rubberized stuff they use for tool. Interesting application for a rubbery-grippy type grip.


https://youtu.be/kUlEtcm6hQ4

This was #1 Reduced Recoil Buck.

19890

Hi Gabe! I'll check out the Spartan buck. I saw the video on your YouTube feed, and it looked interesting. I will get into a class with it at some point in the immediate future.

I've always like the Magpul stock for the 870...but the forend seemed like an afterthought. I don't want to hang a bunch of accessories off of it, especially on the Stakeout. For a full size shotgun, I dig it, but on the shorty, I like the low profile of the Hogue.

I hit the left part of the topstrap of the grip with my sander for about ten seconds, to dumb down the texture. The pattern you apply makes it much easier to hold onto. I wouldn't want to use a bare plastic grip. And I've got a good grip (thanks to pulling teeth daily). I see in the video that many folks have a sling on their Stakeouts. Does that sling socket plug right into the access hole of the shockwave grip?

You've built a fine weapon and a good program to accompany it, Gabe!


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[Gabe Suarez]

You've built a fine weapon and a good program to accompany it, Gabe!


Thanks man. What I like about the MP forend is that it is long. Back in the day I added a wooden "sporting forend" to my 870 (didn't carry it in a cruiser rack when working gangs). The longer forend seemed to make working the action easier...I suppose something to do with leverages. The MP is slippery...which is why we add the texture.

We have two ways we are adding...actually three ways...we are adding the sling system. The front is basically either a QD or a metal loop. I prefer the loop as it is an added safety to the issue of losing the grip. I don't use a strap on mine as you see in the video. We have added a QD to the ass end of the grip, as well as added one of those big push button QD attachments as well. The third way is to use a loop attachment between the receiver and the pistol grip. I like having a sling, but having one that is easy to remove is also good.

In class, the guys using Stakeout type weapons kept up with the bigger guns pretty good too.

We have experimented with adding an RMR to the weapon. I know guys will scoff at it but we live based on wants not needs. The RMR makes a big difference.

[Grizzly21]

Under NC law these firearms are not legal however almost every firearms dealer is selling them and will tell you that they are legal. I spoke with the Attorney General's office recently and they have a legal brief prepared and once it has been reviewed and approved it will make the firearms legal. Until then I will hold off on obtaining one or both of these firearms.
Can anyone provide any further information on NC status?

[Grouse870]

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/new-non-nfa-14-inch-remington-870-tac-14-now-20-gauge/
Tac-14 now in 20 gauge. I do love the 20 gauge... just need some more advanced buckshot

[SJC3081]

On a side note your FFL is prohibited from selling you firearms that are illegal in your home state. So if your FFL is selling you the shockwave, someone made the determination its home state legal.

[03RN]

At the ranges I intend to use this, I'd rather have a volleyball size pattern (Express OO) than a baseball sized pattern (Federal Flite Control). Of course, if I spring for the tax stamp, and make this an SBS by adding a stock, I'll go back to the Federal Flite Control. BUT, with the short(ER) sight radius, and fewer points of contact, the wider pattern is an asset, I feel. Because you truly can, if you aren't very precise, "miss with a shotgun." Make sense?


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No

[johnnywitt]

No

So, I think what Sherman is getting at is that these unbuffered loads with their softer, low antimony, pellets and without a Flight Control type proprietary wad designed to give very tight patterns for shots that are outside the range where these PG Shotguns are intended to be used, the cheaper shells actually work supremely well. They will open up your pattern at room distances to 6-8", instead of a 3" pattern that you get with some of the Flight Control type loads, or the buffered shotshells.

[03RN]

So, I think what Sherman is getting at is that these unbuffered loads with their softer, low antimony, pellets and without a Flight Control type proprietary wad designed to give very tight patterns for shots that are outside the range where these PG Shotguns are intended to be used, the cheaper shells actually work supremely well. They will open up your pattern at room distances to 6-8", instead of a 3" pattern that you get with some of the Flight Control type loads, or the buffered shotshells.

My "no" was directed to his feelings that a wider pattern is an asset.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

My "no" was directed to his feelings that a wider pattern is an asset.

Ok. Don’t offer a counterpoint or anything. We’ll all just do our best to telepathically parse out your rationale.


civiliandefender.com

[Screwball]

My TAC-14... thus far.

https://i.imgur.com/goXhABH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zVUIlj0.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eJ5NWuw.jpg

Run a MS4, so wanted a rear QD mount. Opted for the GG&G, so needed to modify the sidesaddle plate for it to fit. Put a mount on the forend, if I want to carry it in two-point.

Wilson +1 extension, and used the XS swage on the dimples. Some grease, a brass punch to peen the dimples, and was good to go.

Was considering to send the barrel to Rose Action Sports for choke tubes... but really no need for it in this firearm. Will probably send it for the chamber to be polished, but will also be sending the SI vent-rib barrel I ordered to change out sights. Unsure what I want to do with it, either keep both or sell the Remington barrel. Whatever the end route is, everything metal is going to Robar for NP3 Plus.

For the Shockwave verses TAC-14... I’m definitely a Remington guy. Had a 500 JIC2 pistol gripped shotgun, but just prefer the Remington’s controls. My main home defense is a 870 Police, and have two 11-87s for hunting.

[03RN]

03RN, your last two posts in this thread are perfect examples of the type of drive-by and needlessly insulting posts that do not rise to the level of discourse expected at PF. While you are a relatively new member here, many of your posts indicate that you have plenty of experience and knowledge to share and would be a valuable member of our community. However, if these two posts (a "No" followed by dismissing an divergent opinion as "feelings") are indicative of how you are going to disagree, then I would respectfully suggest that maybe PF isn't the best fit for you -- which would be a shame since, as I previously stated, it appears you have much to contribute and could be an asset to the forum.

I'll work on that.

In my experience half a load of buckshot is not an asset. The shockwave needs to be aimed like any other weapon. Having a larger pattern only means you are more likely to drop a couple pellets of the target. Not only will a tighter pattern ensure all your pellets hit what your aiming at but it means you won't potentially send a flier somewhere you don't want.

The biggest reason though is that , Imo, a half a load of buckshot will need a follow up shot. With the shockwave it is slower and harder to follow up accuratly then with a 1014. So now you need to fire twice with a firearm that is already hampered by it's low capacity and slow reloads.

[eb07]

I'll work on that.

In my experience half a load of buckshot is not an asset. The shockwave needs to be aimed like any other weapon. Having a larger pattern only means you are more likely to drop a couple pellets of the target. Not only will a tighter pattern ensure all your pellets hit what your aiming at but it means you won't potentially send a flier somewhere you don't want.

The biggest reason though is that , Imo, a half a load of buckshot will need a follow up shot. With the shockwave it is slower and harder to follow up accuratly then with a 1014. So now you need to fire twice with a firearm that is already hampered by it's low capacity and slow reloads.

My take:

This is a home and vehicle defense weapon. It is GREAT for the RV. I'm not using it for range plinking, hunting or gaming. It's light, small, and easy to maneuver in close quarters. This isn't for precision shooting or long range shooting. This is close quarters ( probably low light) self defense.

If I want tight groups and surgical shooting I will use a rifle. I want a larger pattern to ensure I make hits my intended target(s). Especially under conditions such as low light, high stress, and when movement is involved. Which is why I am not a fan of tighter patterns. I believe tight patterns take away the benefits of a shotgun in low light CQB conditions. Do you really think that you won't get fliers with a handgun or rifle in a low light, high stress encounter?

As far as speed, I can put two rounds on target in under two seconds from safety off empty chamber and if I can't do it with the 5 rounds of 00 in the shotgun then I have the wrong weapon for the intended mission (home or vehicle defense) . I do not care for half loads. This platform can handle even the Winchester fireball spitting military buck loads with no issue.

The only con I have seen with it while training is shooting from prone position is a little awkward. Otherwise it handles recoil well and it is easy to aim and as fast as any pump shotgun on the reload.

If you know how to run the pump and train with it, I believe it negates the semi argument. Example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbi1g-0BPi8

Just my .02 on the subject.

Oh and a photo of mine. I prefer Mossberg. I like the sloppy but tough actions, the safety location, and I HATE what freedom group has done to the quality of great firearm names like remington and marlin to name a few. So that's what directed my choice.

Configuration as shown with 5 in the tube comes in exactly at 7 lbs.

https://thumb.ibb.co/hOi8Uw/image1_Medium.jpg (https://ibb.co/hOi8Uw)

[MVS]

I think these things are really cool so i keep looking for a valid reason to pick one up, but for the life of me I can't come up with one. It would be like the Rossi Ranch Hand I bought. Cool and fun, but no practical purpose. No good for a vehicle gun as here in MI you could not have it loaded in the vehicle. Not for home defense for me as even though it is small and compact it still requires two hands. I will stick with the Glock and WML for inside the house and AR for outside. If someone could talk me into it though, I am listening.

[Hambo]

If I want tight groups and surgical shooting I will use a rifle. I want a larger pattern to ensure I make hits my intended target(s). Especially under conditions such as low light, high stress, and when movement is involved. Which is why I am not a fan of tighter patterns. I believe tight patterns take away the benefits of a shotgun in low light CQB conditions.

Take a look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_sqSTg2v8 at 7:00 and the 10 yard pattern. It's still possible to miss or get very marginal hits. Even if you get patterns twice that size, as I pointed out in a previous post you give up the tight and devastating pattern for one with that puts up to half the pellets in marginal areas. If you don't center that large pattern the 4-5 00 that hit your opponent in marginal areas aren't going to stop the fight.

[eb07]

Take a look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fM_sqSTg2v8 at 7:00 and the 10 yard pattern. It's still possible to miss or get very marginal hits. Even if you get patterns twice that size, as I pointed out in a previous post you give up the tight and devastating pattern for one with that puts up to half the pellets in marginal areas. If you don't center that large pattern the 4-5 00 that hit your opponent in marginal areas aren't going to stop the fight.

In low light with movement, stress, and chaos, I will take the 5 marginal hits over missing with the tight pattern on an non centered shot.. That is my whole point. Both shots centered are going to do the job. The small tight pattern and the fist sized pattern. But only one is at least going to give you holes and attacker loop disruption on an off center shot allowing you to put a follow up shot onto them with the possibility of a momentarily disrupted attack. I'll take 5 - .33 size marginal holes over an off center miss any day of the week.

Honestly looking at the patterning tests I did with my shockwave, my buck shot pattern with full powered is not that different that the flite control. These shorties shoot tight patterns. I will stick with the full power 9 pellet stuff and if I want 1: patterns out to longer distances choose a rifle

Fed PS 00 9 pellet <<---- my choice
3 yards: 1.75"
7 yards: 3.75"
10 yards: 6.0"
15 yards: 6.75"


Fed FC 00 8 pellet
3 yards: 1.75"
7 yards: 3.5"
10 yards: 5.25"
15 yards: 6.5"


Win Mil 00 9 pellet
3 yards: 2.3"
7 yards: 3.5"
10 yards: 6.0"
15 yards: 9.75"

WOlf 00 9 pellet
3 yards: 3.5"
7 yards: 4.25"
10 yards: 6.75"
15 yards: 10.75"


Fiocchi 00 9 pellet
3 yards: 2.5"
7 yards: 3.75"
10 yards: 5.75"
15 yards: 8.5"


Prime 00 9 pellet
3 yards: 1.75"
7 yards: 3.25"
10 yards: 5.5"
15 yards: 7.0"

Rem Ex 00 9 pellet
3 yards: 2.5"
7 yards: 4.25"
10 yards: 6.25"
15 yards: 7.0"

[DamonL]

At the ranges I intend to use this, I'd rather have a volleyball size pattern (Express OO) than a baseball sized pattern (Federal Flite Control). Of course, if I spring for the tax stamp, and make this an SBS by adding a stock, I'll go back to the Federal Flite Control. BUT, with the short(ER) sight radius, and fewer points of contact, the wider pattern is an asset, I feel. Because you truly can, if you aren't very precise, "miss with a shotgun." Make sense?


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In the old days, they had a model called the Witness Protection shotgun, barrel cut down and stock cut off, just like these. They were popular in executive protection. The thinking was in an ambush, you could send a lot of pellets toward a threat for suppressive fire. So a wider pattern is better in some scenarios. They also used Uzi submachine guns for the same purpose.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I know that this: https://www.amazon.com/OPSol-Mini-Clip-235457/dp/B01F5REBUM
was mentioned up-thread, but I recently came across these: https://www.targetsportsusa.com/aguila-minishell-12-gauge-ammo-1-34-buckshot-1c128970-p-76586.aspx

Looks like loaded with a mix of #4 and #1 buck?

https://www.aguilaammo.com/shotshell/

Thoughts?

[Screwball]

I’d pattern it and see... definitely better than birdshot.

While I prefer sticking with one shot size, I really can’t say anything negative about it. My home defense 870 has PDX1 in it; slug in front of three 00 pellets.

[Bigghoss]

Nothing earth-shattering here but SB tactical has brace packages for the Shockwave and Tac-14. I really want to setup a braced tac-14.

Edit: Skip to :50 for the Shockwave/ Tac-14 braces.


https://youtu.be/ASBy5ZGCbHQ?t=50s

[JRB]

Remington will soon be offering a hardwood stock version of the TAC-14.

I struggle to identify the need, but the want is VERY strong! Looks like MSRP of $499 and street price around the $400 mark.

23630

[mtnbkr]

That is sexy.

I keep telling myself I don't need more guns, but I may have to splurge.

Chris

[Screwball]

While I like wood on a TAC-14, and was going to do it myself... I’m more stoked to see they are doing a +1 extension.

[WobblyPossum]

The model with wooden furniture looks pretty bitchin.

[Lester Polfus]

Remington will soon be offering a hardwood stock version of the TAC-14.

I struggle to identify the need, but the want is VERY strong! Looks like MSRP of $499 and street price around the $400 mark.

23630

I am having trouble articulating exactly why I want one of those, but as a child of the 80's I really, really do.

[Hambo]

I dislike the grip style so much I'm giving one away, but this makes me want one all over again. Somebody help me.

[JHC]

Remington will soon be offering a hardwood stock version of the TAC-14.

I struggle to identify the need, but the want is VERY strong! Looks like MSRP of $499 and street price around the $400 mark.

23630

New 8th deadly sin right there.

Oh man.

[Bigghoss]

Remington will soon be offering a hardwood stock version of the TAC-14.

I struggle to identify the need, but the want is VERY strong! Looks like MSRP of $499 and street price around the $400 mark.

23630

Oh baby. Where have you been my whole life?

[Lester Polfus]

Oh baby. Where have you been my whole life?

In the 70's and 80's under the sport coat of a US Marshall, then after that languishing in an armory.

[Hambo]

Ah, screw it, I'm in. It's not any different than having a pair of Colt Dragoon repros in the safe, right? Right?!

[JRB]

In the 70's and 80's under the sport coat of a US Marshall, then after that languishing in an armory.


Ah, screw it, I'm in. It's not any different than having a pair of Colt Dragoon repros in the safe, right? Right?!

Two posts is all it took for me to imagine this shotgun on a custom leather sling, with a pair of Colt Dragoons or SAA's in matching custom leather on the belt. I imagine a sport coat, cowboy hat, and a proper pair of boots would be involved too.

Perhaps with a Winchester 1895 big bore lever gun to round out the ensemble.

Yep, damn it, I'm buying one of these.

[Lester Polfus]

So here's a question:

Will the 14" barrels on either the shockwave or the Tac-14 screw right onto a regular Mossberg 500 or Remington 870?

Before anybody gets in a tizzy, I'm not asking so I can assemble an off the books NFA item. Quite the opposite. I think since I own a regular Mossberg 500, I DON'T want to own a shockwave, if the barrels interchange. The odds of some kind of "constructive possession" rip are low, but the stakes are high...

[Hambo]

So here's a question:

Will the 14" barrels on either the shockwave or the Tac-14 screw right onto a regular Mossberg 500 or Remington 870?

Before anybody gets in a tizzy, I'm not asking so I can assemble an off the books NFA item. Quite the opposite. I think since I own a regular Mossberg 500, I DON'T want to own a shockwave, if the barrels interchange. The odds of some kind of "constructive possession" rip are low, but the stakes are high...

If you're concerned about that, you should also be concerned that you could bolt the 500 buttstock on the Shockwave, no?

The solution for your concern is to buy the 870, then nothing interchanges.

[JRB]

So here's a question:

Will the 14" barrels on either the shockwave or the Tac-14 screw right onto a regular Mossberg 500 or Remington 870?

Before anybody gets in a tizzy, I'm not asking so I can assemble an off the books NFA item. Quite the opposite. I think since I own a regular Mossberg 500, I DON'T want to own a shockwave, if the barrels interchange. The odds of some kind of "constructive possession" rip are low, but the stakes are high...

IANAL, but the constructive possession tizzy has been effectively judged out thanks to a few fiascos with T/C Contenders and Encore rifles/pistols.

So long as you've got a weapon that a given stock/barrel/etc can be legally used on without being an NFA item, you're good to go.

Think owning an AR15 rifle and an AR15 pistol, vs owning an AR15 rifle and having a 10.5in upper lying around with no pistol lower for it. AR pistol upper w/AR pistol lower somewhere = GTG. AR pistol upper with only another AR rifle with buttstock attached = Bad juju.

[Lester Polfus]

IANAL, but the constructive possession tizzy has been effectively judged out thanks to a few fiascos with T/C Contenders and Encore rifles/pistols.

So long as you've got a weapon that a given stock/barrel/etc can be legally used on without being an NFA item, you're good to go.

Think owning an AR15 rifle and an AR15 pistol, vs owning an AR15 rifle and having a 10.5in upper lying around with no pistol lower for it. AR pistol upper w/AR pistol lower somewhere = GTG. AR pistol upper with only another AR rifle with buttstock attached = Bad juju.

I'm quite familiar with those cases, thanks.

This falls into the realm of the hypothetical. There's plenty of room for people to have different ideas of whether it is a problem or not, and I'm deeply uninterested in arguing about it.

The point about the stock is well made.

[Lester Polfus]

If you're concerned about that, you should also be concerned that you could bolt the 500 buttstock on the Shockwave, no?

The solution for your concern is to buy the 870, then nothing interchanges.

That's a good point, and I think you are correct. 870 it is.

[03RN]

Two posts is all it took for me to imagine this shotgun on a custom leather sling, with a pair of Colt Dragoons or SAA's in matching custom leather on the belt. I imagine a sport coat, cowboy hat, and a proper pair of boots would be involved too.

Perhaps with a Winchester 1895 big bore lever gun to round out the ensemble.

Yep, damn it, I'm buying one of these.

How about a last man standing rig?

Or the Andrews Custom leather firepower rig?

[BillSWPA]

Another option:

http://stellarrigs.com/Stellar_Shotgun_Rig.html

[PNWTO]

I don't think they have shipped yet but has anyone had time with the 20ga Shockwave? Looking at one for the better half.

[joshs]

So here's a question:

Will the 14" barrels on either the shockwave or the Tac-14 screw right onto a regular Mossberg 500 or Remington 870?

Before anybody gets in a tizzy, I'm not asking so I can assemble an off the books NFA item. Quite the opposite. I think since I own a regular Mossberg 500, I DON'T want to own a shockwave, if the barrels interchange. The odds of some kind of "constructive possession" rip are low, but the stakes are high...

This can be pretty complicated, but the short answer is that as long as every part can be used in a legal configuration, you should not be in violation of the NFA. So, a complete regular 500 plus complete Shockwave is ok, but owning a regular 500 and just a 14" barrel is not. This also assumes that the Shockwave is an original factory gun. It would not be legal to construct a Shockwave configuration firearm from a regular 500 that left the factory with a stock. That would be making a "weapon made from a shotgun" without complying with the making tax and registration provisions of the NFA.

Please be advised that this is not legal advice and no attorney-client relationship is expressed or implied by this message.

[Lester Polfus]

This can be pretty complicated, but the short answer is that as long as every part can be used in a legal configuration, you should not be in violation of the NFA. So, a complete regular 500 plus complete Shockwave is ok, but owning a regular 500 and just a 14" barrel is not. This also assumes that the Shockwave is an original factory gun. It would not be legal to construct a Shockwave configuration firearm from a regular 500 that left the factory with a stock. That would be making a "weapon made from a shotgun" without complying with the making tax and registration provisions of the NFA.

Please be advised that this is not legal advice and no attorney-client relationship is expressed or implied by this message.

I appreciate that, but I'm really just more interested in knowing if the barrel will drop onto a regular 500. I'm quite familiar with the legal issues around constructive possession. My take away from US vs Thompson-Center Co is very different from everybody else's, and I'm deeply uninterested in debating that, I'm just curious if the barrels swap directly, although as has been pointed out, the stocks are an issue too.

[joshs]

I appreciate that, but I'm really just more interested in knowing if the barrel will drop onto a regular 500. I'm quite familiar with the legal issues around constructive possession. My take away from US vs Thompson-Center Co is very different from everybody else's, and I'm deeply uninterested in debating that, I'm just curious if the barrels swap directly, although as has been pointed out, the stocks are an issue too.

I definitely get that. It's one of those cases where many have adopted the reasoning of the concurring opinion, rather than the plurality, which is probably wishful thinking on our part. There is also obviously the problem of states that have a prohibition on short-barrel shotguns with definitional variances that may affect the legality of various firearms/configurations. My understanding is that the Shockwave receiver takes regular stocks/barrels.

[feudist]

Has anyone really wrung one of these out yet? Like on a timer with standard exercises?

[willie]

Has anyone really wrung one of these out yet? Like on a timer with standard exercises?


I don't think they have shipped yet but has anyone had time with the 20ga Shockwave? Looking at one for the better half.

I traded my 12 gauge version for the 20 gauge and have 200 rounds of assorted ammo through it. For me it's easier than its big brother to use. I prefer the gun's lighter weight and the 20 gauge's lower recoil. I selected ammo based on lower recoil shot/powder combinations. Buckshot is manageable. Over the years I've burned up a bunch of ammo shooting pistol gripped shotguns and had great fun. I probably do shoot them well but admit that I see small utility for them.

[Poconnor]

Has any body seen the wood stocked tac-14 in person?

[mtnbkr]

Has any body seen the wood stocked tac-14 in person?

I was at a gun show today. I saw lots of regular Tac-14s, but not a single wood stocked one. I was keeping an eye out.

Chris

[elsquid]

( incorrectly posted video )

[Itschris]

New guy here. I’m not a shotgun afficianodo by any stretch but just recently picked up a Rem Tac14 along with a Rem 870 Express Tactical. I have yet to put anything high end through it but have gone through about 500 rounds between the two just learning and getting fluent with proper administration. My last time out my buddy brought out his Moss Shockwave. Having shot about 20 or so rounds through that, I can’t say I’d prefer one over the other. There was nothing specific to either that was a big enough deal or even noticeable to say this over that. I know for a lot of people it’s a Ford vs Chevy argument and would definitely point to my inexperience with shotguns and say there’s very important and clear differences but from my standpoint, they’re both excellent at what they do and I doubt buying one would lead to remorse over the other.

That being said I think you look for the best deal and right now PSA has the Tac14 for $299. I just bought my 3rd one. I’m keeping one as is at home, I’m going to base my SBS on the second one and just ordered this one to keep at my other home.

[TCinVA]

Has anyone really wrung one of these out yet? Like on a timer with standard exercises?

Not yet...I'm hoping to soon.

As it comes from the factory the Mossberg I bought is next to useless. The bead on the barrel is just entirely too low and if you use it you will end up shooting ridiculously high.

I've thought about red dots, lasers, and even sending the barrel to a gunsmith to have Remington rifle-style sights installed on the barrel...but I'm going to keep this pretty white trash by just replacing the front screw-in bead with something that sits higher and is more visible.

Based on playing with it so far it will not be as quick or efficient to use...even with a much better sights...as a stocked shotgun. It will be much, MUCH easier to miss with absent a shoulder mount.

Probably the most useful solution I've seen so far is to mount a green laser on top of the receiver with an aftermarket rail. (The Mossberg comes drilled and tapped for this) Mount a light up front and do a WHOLE LOT of practice and you might be able to get close to what you can do with a bead-sighted shotgun that has a stock.

[nalesq]

Probably the most useful solution I've seen so far is to mount a green laser on top of the receiver with an aftermarket rail. (The Mossberg comes drilled and tapped for this) Mount a light up front and do a WHOLE LOT of practice and you might be able to get close to what you can do with a bead-sighted shotgun that has a stock.

Back in the day, a soldier in my company mounted a laser to one of the pistol grip only breaching shotguns. With some practice, we determined that one could theoretically do some decent work with it, at least indoors. I don’t think anyone ever bothered to truly zero it, but inside 7 meters or so (which is about as far as anyone ever expected to conceivably use it) it didn’t really matter that much.

Discovered that with the laser, the best way to control it for reasonably fast follow up shots and not risk smacking yourself in the face was to brace it against your chest, sort of like shooting from what in Southnarc’s ECQC curriculum would be considered the “number three” position.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Trigger]

Maybe this is a stupid/obvious question, but I have not found the answer: Is there a legal restriction preventing manufacturers from building a Shockwave / Tac-14 equivalent in semi-auto? I am not a fan of running a pump shotgun where the buttstock is not seated in the cup of my shoulder. For a short shotgun, I'd rather use a semi-auto. But there are none, hence my question.

[Bigghoss]

Maybe this is a stupid/obvious question, but I have not found the answer: Is there a legal restriction preventing manufacturers from building a Shockwave / Tac-14 equivalent in semi-auto? I am not a fan of running a pump shotgun where the buttstock is not seated in the cup of my shoulder. For a short shotgun, I'd rather use a semi-auto. But there are none, hence my question.

Would love to see anyone do this. Despite being expensive, it would be really cool if Browning did a whippet gun.

[Itschris]

Would love to see anyone do this. Despite being expensive, it would be really cool if Browning did a whippet gun.

If you can put the Moss SGA stock on 1301 with adapter, I’m assuming you could put the Shockwave “pistol” or “firearm” grip of it on the 1301. Has anyone SBS’d the 1301 into a 14” version? I’m assuming the gas system would need adjustment somehow and I don’t even know if that’s possible. But a 14” 1301 with SGA stock, the new forend, and other bits would make the ultimate shotgun for me.

[hufnagel]

With regards to accuracy, from my personal experience:
With just the front sight bead I can consistently get 3 out of 5 birds from my clay launcher. The key obviously is to get on the bird as early as possible.
I tried the rail and a 1x red dot I had lying around, and found it very difficult. They way you hold a shockwave makes it hard to keep things lined up as you're moving.
Now interestingly near the end of that day, I pulled the red dot off and just used the rail as sort of really long U-notch site setup. That seemed to work pretty well, but I only got 2 tubes of shells through it like that. My next outing i'll spend some more time with it like that and see what's what.
To be clear i'm no operator operating operationally, but the ergos of the thing make me think this is more of a point and shoot type weapon versus one you're going to be able to run-and-gun with and easily transition between moving targets.

Also, if Mossberg decided to make one with a semi-auto receiver, I'd HAVE to buy it! :D

[TCinVA]

Now interestingly near the end of that day, I pulled the red dot off and just used the rail as sort of really long U-notch site setup.

I've been pondering possible ghetto rear-sight reference setups like paint on the receiver or something to try and produce a similar effect to give that crucial read on alignment that you need when you don't have the shoulder mount. I might have to take a look at using the rail for that...

[hufnagel]

The neat thing about the rail is, it's a tad higher off the deck of the receiver, so a little easier to hold the shockwave overall. As you noticed this thing seems to shoot high, so a little rail height might help that aspect. Finally if you had a laser with a quick release and holds zero when removed/reinstalled, you could add/subtract it as needed, converting it from a sight aimed weapon to park the dot one.

If there's one thing I'm sure of, people will be dickering with setups for this thing for quite some time, simply because no one really knows how to use it yet, but everyone gets the sense it *is* useful. Given that i'm of the opinion it's one of the most interesting firearms to be made in awhile. :D

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I've been pondering possible ghetto rear-sight reference setups like paint on the receiver or something to try and produce a similar effect to give that crucial read on alignment that you need when you don't have the shoulder mount. I might have to take a look at using the rail for that...

Tim...I put a, “double size,” brass bead on mine. It came from Suarez with a FO tube, which with the porting, became unusable as a FO after two rounds, because of the soot buildup. The brass bead is easy enough to pickup, doesn’t get sooty (appreciably) and is more mechanically stable than the tube.

I think the knack to shooting these short blunderbusses sans stock is having a, “compound bow,” like reference, and a crush grip on both ends to keep from getting rapped in the mustache by a loosely held gun.


civiliandefender.com

[TCinVA]

Tim...I put a, “double size,” brass bead on mine. It came from Suarez with a FO tube, which with the porting, became unusable as a FO after two rounds, because of the soot buildup. The brass bead is easy enough to pickup, doesn’t get sooty (appreciably) and is more mechanically stable than the tube.

I think the knack to shooting these short blunderbusses sans stock is having a, “compound bow,” like reference, and a crush grip on both ends to keep from getting rapped in the mustache by a loosely held gun.


civiliandefender.com

Seems that way.

Although I'm hoping to explore what low recoil Remington LE buckshot does in them. 77GrnOption let me fire a few rounds of that when I was out at his place in December and it was the softest shooting 12 gauge buckshot I've ever tried. If that holds true with the ammo I bought then these things become pussycats to shoot. I'll hopefully be able to test that out soon and report back.

[ricky_bobby]

Remington will soon be offering a hardwood stock version of the TAC-14.

I struggle to identify the need, but the want is VERY strong! Looks like MSRP of $499 and street price around the $400 mark.

23630


I do not own an 870 currently, but change out that sling for a bandolier and I'm all about it - with the Mag extension, although I am hard pressed to own anything from Remington lately because of QC reports from many places, that thing is about as close as you're going to get to Kyle Reese's sawed off in The Terminator -

[Chuck Whitlock]

Tim...I put a, “double size,” brass bead on mine. It came from Suarez with a FO tube, which with the porting, became unusable as a FO after two rounds, because of the soot buildup. The brass bead is easy enough to pickup, doesn’t get sooty (appreciably) and is more mechanically stable than the tube.

I think the knack to shooting these short blunderbusses sans stock is having a, “compound bow,” like reference, and a crush grip on both ends to keep from getting rapped in the mustache by a loosely held gun.


civiliandefender.com

I was thinking along the lines of the XS Big Dot.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I was thinking along the lines of the XS Big Dot.

The problem I see with XS big dots for shotguns is that they don’t stay in place. The epoxy on models come off with normal handling. The brass bead threads on. It’s not coming off easily.


civiliandefender.com

[Chuck Whitlock]

The problem I see with XS big dots for shotguns is that they don’t stay in place. The epoxy on models come off with normal handling. The brass bead threads on. It’s not coming off easily.

Good data point. I was not aware of this. I'd had one installed on an agency 590DA1 and liked it very much, but have since left that agency.

[TCinVA]

Vang Comp will silver-solder Remington rifle sights on the Shockwave for around $200. If one was serious about using one of these as a defensive weapon I'd have them perform that service and I'd put XS' Remington rifle sights on it.

[shane45]

There are these things:

https://fostech.us/firearms/shotguns/origin-12-sbv.html

I have shot most things in the shooting world from black powder to FA but I raise my hand and admit that the entirety of the shotgun category is a very shallow pool of experience for me. Lets just say that im a VERY late bloomer in this category. I picked up an 870 Police Magnum and a FN SLP. I really like the SLP.(wasn't spending Benneli money just yet and got a great deal on the FN). Picked up a shockwave more as a 2 finger salute to the state of NJ and after watching some reviews I could actually see the utility of it.

Enter the Origin. That piece just gives me the wants!!!! But Im trying to rationalize the utility of it. I guess it has the same merits of a shockwave. But ticket for admission is rather high. I guess where I really get wrapped around the axle is trying to figure out when I would actually pick this tool over my Tavor? (other than just the fun of shooting it)

[1slow]

I have shot most things in the shooting world from black powder to FA but I raise my hand and admit that the entirety of the shotgun category is a very shallow pool of experience for me. Lets just say that im a VERY late bloomer in this category. I picked up an 870 Police Magnum and a FN SLP. I really like the SLP.(wasn't spending Benneli money just yet and got a great deal on the FN). Picked up a shockwave more as a 2 finger salute to the state of NJ and after watching some reviews I could actually see the utility of it.

Enter the Origin. That piece just gives me the wants!!!! But Im trying to rationalize the utility of it. I guess it has the same merits of a shockwave. But ticket for admission is rather high. I guess where I really get wrapped around the axle is trying to figure out when I would actually pick this tool over my Tavor? (other than just the fun of shooting it)

Any test reliable data on one ?

[ricky_bobby]

Enter the Origin. That piece just gives me the wants!!!! But Im trying to rationalize the utility of it. I guess it has the same merits of a shockwave. But ticket for admission is rather high. I guess where I really get wrapped around the axle is trying to figure out when I would actually pick this tool over my Tavor? (other than just the fun of shooting it)


If you have a Shockwave already, I would just get an SBT brace for it - the SBL looks the bees knees IMO and its made for the Tac14 and the Shockwave - street price is around $160 and it still classifies as a firearm similar to AR Pistols -

https://www.sb-tactical.com/product/590-sbl/

24294

[03RN]

The problem I see with XS big dots for shotguns is that they don’t stay in place. The epoxy on models come off with normal handling. The brass bead threads on. It’s not coming off easily.


civiliandefender.com

The xs dot is on there pretty good. There is a bead under the sight, threaded in. The jbweld fastens the sight to to the bead and barrel.

I've used them in the past and feel pretty confident
24308

[Wendell]

Published to YouTube on Jan 1, 2018 by Brobee223 (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCzquq36azJY_TtfAyqsF6iA)




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7shQkL8FO4

[Screwball]

Well, I bit the bullet and went further down the TAC-14 rabbit hole...

https://i.imgur.com/kP6q74F.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ZSjTmi4.jpg

I am very impressed with the design of the folding mechanism of the Suarez International Folding Brace. When you see guys doing push-ups while balancing on the magazine of an AK... the sturdiness of it gives me that feeling.

[1slow]

It is very solid.

[farscott]

So what is the the collective forum opinion/outlook on the use of an arm brace with the TAC-14? I got to try a TAC-14 equipped with the SBL over the weekend, and I had to consciously force myself more than once to not shoulder the thing. My understanding is that is a federal "No-no", punishable under the auspices of the NFA. When I tried to use the arm brace as an arm brace, my shooting was, shall we say, less than acceptable. I then followed up with a SBS 870 and had no issues, which is not surprising since I am always shooting 870 shotguns, including my 870 trap guns and my social guns. I then tried the TAC-14 as issued by Remington without the brace and started to get the hang of it. Not like the SBS 870, but that is thirty years of stocked 870 usage, including way too many rounds of trap. Since Dr. House has shown that the TAC-14 can be accurately shot and my results were not entirely frustrating, it suggests the arm brace is not necessary.

I do not want to be trolling, but it looks like the arm brace relies on whatever interpretation of the NFA that the BATFE decides is current. Quite frankly, that scares me. If I did have the misfortune to use an "arm brace" TAC-14 for defense, I could foresee having to deal with even more (federal) issues than any other shooting would cause. Same with a 870 SBS in terms of the civil case that may follow as people around here look askance at SBS, and the jury is everything with a civil case. Yet the TAC-14 is remarkably popular. Not sure I get it, but it is what it is. Until now, I have stayed with the regular 18.5-inch, shoulder stocked 870P, but the shorter barrel has its appeal.

[03RN]

Their interpretation is just that. It isn't law.

The law is clear and you can shoulder a brace.

[willie]

ATF's interpretation is documented. The way I see it is that the owner should be more concerned with state and local laws that prohibit or might in the future prohibit ownership of these weapons with or without the brace. The farscott's full stock 870P trumps the Shockwave type guns in most respects except handiness. I love my 20 ga Shockwave and look forward to owning the 410 version. But remember this. I also bought a S&W Governor. I would write more. I'm on my way to a dirt clod and stump shooting contest so must hurry. If I remember correctly, 03RN applied brace and red dot to his Shockwave and has developed an effective combination, one that places him several notches above my category.

[03RN]

ATF's interpretation is documented. The way I see it is that the owner should be more concerned with state and local laws that prohibit or might in the future prohibit ownership of these weapons with or without the brace. The farscott's full stock 870P trumps the Shockwave type guns in most respects except handiness. I love my 20 ga Shockwave and look forward to owning the 410 version. But remember this. I also bought a S&W Governor. I would write more. I'm on my way to a dirt clod and stump shooting contest so must hurry. If I remember correctly, 03RN applied brace and red dot to his Shockwave and has developed an effective combination, one that places him several notches above my category.

No brace on mine

https://youtu.be/C6Qao0v8xPY

[Screwball]

I leave the brace on mine, but do have the original grip. To an extent, there are roles where just the grip (no brace) is superior. Namely, vehicle roles or others where space is limited.

I’m sending my setup out for NP3 Plus in the near future. I’m considering getting another TAC-14 (I have a rifle up for sale that I want to get money for, but did put a TAC-14 as a trade option), toss on a Remington rifle sight barrel, and have a RMR mount added. Then, I’d get that done in NP3 Plus, so I’ll have a brace assembly that could go with either firearm. The bead barrel is awesome, but if I go RMR... the bead is worthless. Rifle sights put that sight plane in the RMR window.

In regards to shouldering the brace... not a concern of mine. I bought it as a brace, not a stock. If I want to put a stock on a TAC-14... I’ll file the paperwork (in a state that allows it) and wait for the tax stamp to come back. If I need to use it in a defensive situation, I’ll worry about that legal issue if it arises afterwards. If it is a good shoot, that isn’t as big of a concern as if it were a bad shoot... charges get a little worse in that scenario.

[willie]

I leave the brace on mine, but do have the original grip. To an extent, there are roles where just the grip (no brace) is superior. Namely, vehicle roles or others where space is limited.

I’m sending my setup out for NP3 Plus in the near future. I’m considering getting another TAC-14 (I have a rifle up for sale that I want to get money for, but did put a TAC-14 as a trade option), toss on a Remington rifle sight barrel, and have a RMR mount added. Then, I’d get that done in NP3 Plus, so I’ll have a brace assembly that could go with either firearm. The bead barrel is awesome, but if I go RMR... the bead is worthless. Rifle sights put that sight plane in the RMR window.

In regards to shouldering the brace... not a concern of mine. I bought it as a brace, not a stock. If I want to put a stock on a TAC-14... I’ll file the paperwork (in a state that allows it) and wait for the tax stamp to come back. If I need to use it in a defensive situation, I’ll worry about that legal issue if it arises afterwards. If it is a good shoot, that isn’t as big of a concern as if it were a bad shoot... charges get a little worse in that scenario.

About stocks and legal issues and good shoots, I urge you to rethink your logic. Why risk unnecessary involvement with the criminal justice system and possibly losing 2A rights plus spending $1000s? Instead make use of what's legal in your area.

[Screwball]

About stocks and legal issues and good shoots, I urge you to rethink your logic. Why risk unnecessary involvement with the criminal justice system and possibly losing 2A rights plus spending $1000s? Instead make use of what's legal in your area.

Who said any of it is illegal in my area?

What I said specifically touched on shouldering, which is currently legal... per latest ATF letters.

[willie]

I apologize for misreading your post. I was confused about the last two sentences in the 2nd paragraph. My reading comprehension may be subpar.

[NoLock]

Anyone know the lop on these braces, specifically the one of the factory tac 14?

They seem to be legal in my state now. How uncomfortable is it versus a Magpul SGA?

[Screwball]

Anyone know the lop on these braces, specifically the one of the factory tac 14?

My S/I folding brace has about 13.5” length of pull.

No idea on factory...

[Malamute]

Vang Comp will silver-solder Remington rifle sights on the Shockwave for around $200. If one was serious about using one of these as a defensive weapon I'd have them perform that service and I'd put XS' Remington rifle sights on it.


I bought a take-off Rem 700 rear sight from a gun show parts box or gunsmith somewhere in the past and had it milled to fit my Win model 12 barrel contour and sweated on, and used a Williams Shorty shotgun ramp (https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/sights/sight-parts/front-sight-parts/shotgun-shorty-ramps-prod16150.aspx) for the front. Looking at these short guns, I think Id do similar, but perhaps with as low of a front ramp as i could, they list down to 1/8" for the Shorty ramps. Ive had all my front sights sweated and screwed on when adding them to various rifles and the model 12.

There used to be someone making a small, basic screw on dovetail rear sight base, but searching hasnt revealed its existence. The Williams Guide open rear (https://williamsgunsight.com/product/williams-wgos-series/) would work, but is alloy, and not sure it would sweat on.

In discussing these short guns shooting high, are people trying to aim with some point on the receiver and the bead? Ive always just sort of looked over the bead or rifle sights when shooting moving stuff or airborn clays, adjusting the hold as needed once the point of impact/pattern was figured out.

Way back in the 1900s I came into a cheap single barrel shotgun cut down to legal length, meaning no real usable amount of stock left. It wasnt all that difficult to hit cans thrown in the air shooting with both hands held out as seems the method preferred with the short guns now. I have no problem believing one of these current guns would be fine as a car, house or yard gun, or for snakes when tooling around the desert country, or perhaps camping near the border. It would also be fun to bunny or perhaps bird hunt with. Id be interested in the 20 ga for the geezer/gimp factor.

Has anyone tried a single point sling mount on the left rear part of the receiver? I'm thinking similar to the old carbine sling (saddle ring) style (1860s-70s version) used with a sling looped over one shoulder and clipped to the ring. More utilitarian than concealed.

[Lester Polfus]

I bought a take-off Rem 700 rear sight from a gun show parts box or gunsmith somewhere in the past and had it milled to fit my Win model 12 barrel contour and sweated on, and used a Williams Shorty shotgun ramp (https://www.brownells.com/shotgun-parts/sights/sight-parts/front-sight-parts/shotgun-shorty-ramps-prod16150.aspx) for the front. Looking at these short guns, I think Id do similar, but perhaps with as low of a front ramp as i could, they list down to 1/8" for the Shorty ramps. Ive had all my front sights sweated and screwed on when adding them to various rifles and the model 12.

There used to be someone making a small, basic screw on dovetail rear sight base, but searching hasnt revealed its existence. The Williams Guide open rear (https://williamsgunsight.com/product/williams-wgos-series/) would work, but is alloy, and not sure it would sweat on.

In discussing these short guns shooting high, are people trying to aim with some point on the receiver and the bead? Ive always just sort of looked over the bead or rifle sights when shooting moving stuff or airborn clays, adjusting the hold as needed once the point of impact/pattern was figured out.

Way back in the 1900s I came into a cheap single barrel shotgun cut down to legal length, meaning no real usable amount of stock left. It wasnt all that difficult to hit cans thrown in the air shooting with both hands held out as seems the method preferred with the short guns now. I have no problem believing one of these current guns would be fine as a car, house or yard gun, or for snakes when tooling around the desert country, or perhaps camping near the border. It would also be fun to bunny or perhaps bird hunt with. Id be interested in the 20 ga for the geezer/gimp factor.

Has anyone tried a single point sling mount on the left rear part of the receiver? I'm thinking similar to the old carbine sling (saddle ring) style (1860s-70s version) used with a sling looped over one shoulder and clipped to the ring. More utilitarian than concealed.

Back in the 1900's, I had occasion to be issued a 14" 870 with a bird's head grip and a single point sling. The sling made it much easier to get hits.

[Malamute]

Interesting point. Thank you for bringing it up.

[farscott]

Sportsman's Outdoor Superstore has the regular TAC-14 for $279 with free shipping until Monday. https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/194252

The 20-gauge TAC-14 is $289 with free shipping until Monday. https://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/201784

I finally broke down and ordered one. For that price, I can SBS it and have less into it than a new eighteen-inch 870P.

[Screwball]

For that price, I can SBS it and have less into it than a new eighteen-inch 870P.

I hear you, but SBS means NFA.

Brace isn’t a stock, but you don’t have NFA stuff to worry about. I’d say give it a shot before filing the paperwork.

I just got a Remington rifle sight barrel for mine... compared to the vent rib barrel, it raises up the line of sight a little bit.

[JRB]

FYI, the TAC-14 Hardwood is starting to show up Gunbroker. Which means they might start shipping soon. :)

27973

My FFL buddy called me about 10 minutes ago saying that exactly one was in stock at a large distributor. By the time I could tell him 'shut up and take my money' it was gone.

[Inkwell 41]

No idea how good these are, or how good the company is. If you are looking for a semi auto though, this may be a choice.... http://www.blackacestactical.com/product-page/shockwave-semi-non-nfa

[Hambo]

back in the 1900s


Back in the 1900's

Would you guys quit saying that?

[farscott]

I took a look at the Suarez folding brace. I like the idea, but the OAL of the TAC-14 with the brace folded is twenty-four inches per the Suarez International web site. Part of the TAC-14 not being under the auspices of the NFA is the OAL is greater than twenty-six inches. Does that mean adding the folding brace to the NFA is "making" an AOW? No need to shoulder or not as the OAL per the manufacturer is less than the required twenty-six inches. The Suarez web site says the measurement is done with the stock NOT folded, but I cannot find any regulation or BATFE BATD letter than mentions folded or unfolded. Thoughts?

[Sigfan26]

I took a look at the Suarez folding brace. I like the idea, but the OAL of the TAC-14 with the brace folded is twenty-four inches per the Suarez International web site. Part of the TAC-14 not being under the auspices of the NFA is the OAL is greater than twenty-six inches. Does that mean adding the folding brace to the NFA is "making" an AOW? No need to shoulder or not as the OAL per the manufacturer is less than the required twenty-six inches. The Suarez web site says the measurement is done with the stock NOT folded, but I cannot find any regulation or BATFE BATD letter than mentions folded or unfolded. Thoughts?

Black Aces has been building “firearms” in 12ga with folding braces for a while and have a letter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ricky_bobby]

I took a look at the Suarez folding brace. I like the idea, but the OAL of the TAC-14 with the brace folded is twenty-four inches per the Suarez International web site. Part of the TAC-14 not being under the auspices of the NFA is the OAL is greater than twenty-six inches. Does that mean adding the folding brace to the NFA is "making" an AOW? No need to shoulder or not as the OAL per the manufacturer is less than the required twenty-six inches. The Suarez web site says the measurement is done with the stock NOT folded, but I cannot find any regulation or BATFE BATD letter than mentions folded or unfolded. Thoughts?

I feel like folding braces have become the new voodoo from the 2016 "OMG CANT SHOULDER A BRACE THE ATF WILL COME SHOOT MY DOG"

SB Tactical has made folding braces for quite some time now as well (thanks for the Black Aces reference above) - I don't see the HK owners selling their SP5K folding braces in droves.

A folding brace made for storage or transport does not redesign the original use of the brace which is used in an extended folding position for firing, whether through the arm section or shouldered. Don't buy into the voodoo. If you want a folding brace then get it and if you want to shoulder it have at it. We need to stop talking like we are so scared of the ATF and their opinion letters, you aren't committing a felony or making an NFA item by installing a folding brace.

[Sammy1]

I wish I didn't start reading this post. I had convinced myself these things were useless, now I gotta have one.

[BenM2Tac]

I wish I didn't start reading this post. I had convinced myself these things were useless, now I gotta have one.

Same here man the Michael Bane Podcast pushed me over the deep end . This you tube video shows it braced very nice package . I ordered the TAC 14 (Great Price) and the SB Tactical SBM4 kit and the scattergun technologies plus 1 Brownells had a sweet coupon code yesterday. Anybody know much about the Scattergun tech plus one heard it can be a pain to install ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py6JdfmZ1bI&t=127s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=py6JdfmZ1bI&t=127s

[Screwball]

Anybody know much about the Scattergun tech plus one heard it can be a pain to install ?

If your gun comes with a dimpled magazine tube, need to get rid of them. I used a swage for mine... easy, just needed to use grease.

However, some of the new variations that Remington released had the plus one already installed. If that is the case, then just swap. I like the Wilson one better.

[ricky_bobby]

If your gun comes with a dimpled magazine tube, need to get rid of them. I used a swage for mine... easy, just needed to use grease.

However, some of the new variations that Remington released had the plus one already installed. If that is the case, then just swap. I like the Wilson one better.

I agree, either the Wilson +1 or the S&J Hardware +1 are the top extensions that I would spend money on.

PSA had a great daily deal a few weeks ago for $269 shipped for a regular Tac-14 - If I was planning on bracing it, I would get the Tac14 just because of Remington's safety location.

Here is my "If I can land a $270 Tac-14" build/price list:

-Mag Extension +1 - $55
-SBA3 Brace kit (new hotness, adjustable on a mil spec tube!) - $130
-Mesa LEO Adapter - $80

The best price I've seen on the "factory brace" version is about $520 or so, this would put me right in line with that, but I'd get my preferred mag extension and SBA3 arm brace for it. Maybe throw an M-lok hand stop and XS big dot sight on it.

I've been on a shotgun kick lately, I think I will do this Tac14 build, and get a Shockwave and keep it with the Raptor grip, Black Aces just came out with gorgeous checkered walnut furniture for it.

[Screwball]

I agree, either the Wilson +1 or the S&J Hardware +1 are the top extensions that I would spend money on.

PSA had a great daily deal a few weeks ago for $269 shipped for a regular Tac-14 - If I was planning on bracing it, I would get the Tac14 just because of Remington's safety location.

Agreed... I got the one from Wilson with the stud on the end, and it is solid. The Remington one just looks cheap... but completely based on pictures. Never saw one in person, so might be ok.

The safety is huge with a traditional pistol grip. The OEM grip... you can use with the Mossberg, but not a braced one. Pretty much, the safety is just left off in that setup. I had a JIC2 500, with Hogue pistol grip/forend, and that was a definite issue for me. I want to be able to engage/disengage the safety... not run it without anything in the chamber.

I originally wanted to get a second TAC-14, and do a rifle sight RMR combo. I liked my S/I folding brace, but heard some complaints about them installing traditional rifle sights on barrels... with it looking like ass (pictures I saw would never allow me to order one, but I’m also very particular with setting my guns up). I got the Remington barrel, but it is considerably lower than the ones on my 870 Police (higher than the bead... as I have a decent cheek-weld with the rifle sight barrel). Might just send the gun and barrels/grips out to Robar, NP3 Plus it all, then have a few options (I love the vent-rib look).

[farscott]

Here is what I did. TAC-14 Marine Magnum, XS tritium/white bead front sight, and Suarez folding brace.

Still working on best way to have POI be POA. Results with using the brace so the gun is an extension of the arm have been interesting. BTW, it is really easy to smack one's face with the TAC-14.

[ricky_bobby]

Agreed... I got the one from Wilson with the stud on the end, and it is solid. The Remington one just looks cheap... but completely based on pictures. Never saw one in person, so might be ok.

The safety is huge with a traditional pistol grip. The OEM grip... you can use with the Mossberg, but not a braced one. Pretty much, the safety is just left off in that setup. I had a JIC2 500, with Hogue pistol grip/forend, and that was a definite issue for me. I want to be able to engage/disengage the safety... not run it without anything in the chamber.

I originally wanted to get a second TAC-14, and do a rifle sight RMR combo. I liked my S/I folding brace, but heard some complaints about them installing traditional rifle sights on barrels... with it looking like ass (pictures I saw would never allow me to order one, but I’m also very particular with setting my guns up). I got the Remington barrel, but it is considerably lower than the ones on my 870 Police (higher than the bead... as I have a decent cheek-weld with the rifle sight barrel). Might just send the gun and barrels/grips out to Robar, NP3 Plus it all, then have a few options (I love the vent-rib look).

Yeah I haven't decided and am still mulling it over - I have a couple Mossbergs already so Shockwave was always the natural choice for me, and I have been mulling back and forth of what I want to do. I LOVE the old school look of the Tac-14 in Hardwood, they haven't trickled out yet much but probably will be around $400-425 street price -

The Tac-14 and Shockwave both can be in the low 300's high 200's if you find the right deal. If I bought the Tac14 that wasn't the hardwood WP870 look, I'd have to brace it (for some reason although I applaud them for including it, something looks "off" on the factory T14 with the Magpul forend, maybe its because of the missing mag extension? Just an OCD thing to me) - whereas if I bought the regular Shockwave I'd be doing this (bottom) -

28685

And then probably buying a second, and doing a Form 1 so I can put the Magpul SGA stock on it, considering a factory 590A1 SBS is $550-600 before you pay for the stamp, it might be worth it with what it costs to throw one of the nicer braces on (I don't like the plastic Ergo adapters, and the KAK blade is more for a softer AR than a 12 gauge, although it can be used) .

That's kind of where I'm at, I just don't know which to do first, indecisiveness is such a first world problem. Knowing how I am and that I own a bunch of Mossbergs already, I probably will buy one and do the wood on it, and keep it for what it is, a compact super easy to maneuver truck or woods gun. If the hardwood Tac14 trickles out in larger production I would consider it depending on the street price, although the controls on the Rem are not as friendly to me as a lefty than the Mossberg.

[Chuck Whitlock]

The main thing I like about Mossbergs over 870s is the placement of the action release. The dual extractors and lifter design are nice as well.
I think that a Shockwave with wood furniture, an XSBD, and a Opsol adapter for Aguila minishells would be a hoot.

[ricky_bobby]

The main thing I like about Mossbergs over 870s is the placement of the action release. The dual extractors and lifter design are nice as well.
I think that a Shockwave with wood furniture, an XSBD, and a Opsol adapter for Aguila minishells would be a hoot.

Agreed - I love the dual extractors, open elevator design for loading, and the action release is very natural for me as I don't have big hands, wood furniture and XSBD, no mag extension needed like on the Tac14 (it bothers me with Remington's short mag tube) - this is the route I will be going with the Shockwave to keep it compact - and as mentioned, with the right sale if one wants to pay $200 for a Form 1, would be 90% of a factory Mossberg SBS for about a $300 savings over buying a factory one and having transferred on Form 3/4

[BenM2Tac]

WOW maybe I'm still a beginner but I've shot a fair share of shotguns ( Mossberg 500, Benelli M2, Vinci, 1301 tac , A5) and I am familiar with the Rob Haught push pull technique, but I shot my TAC 14 with the Raptor head first with buckshot ( indoor range mandates only Buck and Slugs) and it was completely unmanageable, I got through about 5 rounds my first range trip.

Fast forward a few days and my SB tactical Brace adapter kit came in the mail and was installed, the firearm immediately felt much handier with that extra point of contact, so I went back to the range with an assortment of Buckshot and Slugs , The SB clear hull cheap stuff is brutal , the Winchester military grade OD hulls were less punishing but still pretty bad , and the Winchester Slugs .... fugetaboutit , My shoulder in thoroughly red and bruised today. I've never had this much punishment from any of my shotguns in the past. To add I'm a pretty fit young man who lifts weights and exercises pretty much daily for 10 plus years. maybe my technique is off I'll take a video next time I go.

[03RN]

WOW maybe I'm still a beginner but I've shot a fair share of shotguns ( Mossberg 500, Benelli M2, Vinci, 1301 tac , A5) and I am familiar with the Rob Haught push pull technique, but I shot my TAC 14 with the Raptor head first with buckshot ( indoor range mandates only Buck and Slugs) and it was completely unmanageable, I got through about 5 rounds my first range trip.

Fast forward a few days and my SB tactical Brace adapter kit came in the mail and was installed, the firearm immediately felt much handier with that extra point of contact, so I went back to the range with an assortment of Buckshot and Slugs , The SB clear hull cheap stuff is brutal , the Winchester military grade OD hulls were less punishing but still pretty bad , and the Winchester Slugs .... fugetaboutit , My shoulder in thoroughly red and bruised today. I've never had this much punishment from any of my shotguns in the past. To add I'm a pretty fit young man who lifts weights and exercises pretty much daily for 10 plus years. maybe my technique is off I'll take a video next time I go.

IDK dude

Full power buckshot

https://youtu.be/YX_AliZv0j4
Slugs

https://youtu.be/pOU69Dmniks
Perhaps??

https://youtu.be/cjBLuTwT6mM

[Rex G]

I am still hoping for a Benelli M2-/M4-ish Whippet Gun. :)

[Screwball]

I am still hoping for a Benelli M2-/M4-ish Whippet Gun. :)

Black Aces did a few 1100s on virgin receivers...

[Sammy1]

I just ordered a Tact-14. When I get it I'll post a shooting review.

[Sammy1]

I took out my new Tact-14 yesterday with a mixture of slugs, buckshot and 7.5 shot. Function was great, very smooth. The slugs were low recoil and easy to shoot. The buckshot was a handful but manageable. Shooting at 25 yds (not the intended range) I tended to shoot high but I could still keep the slugs on target. I'm liking it and the next addition will be talon grip and then a flashlight.

[JRB]

I got one of the hardwood TAC-14's when a shipment made them briefly available at a large distributor.

Fit & finish of the wood isn't old world Remington, but I didn't have any expectations about that. Plastic trigger housing and guard, and the wood birds-head grip doesn't fit the receiver 100% evenly if you really scrutinize it but is solid and otherwise unnoticeable. The supplied nylon sling sucks, so I ended up re-purposing a surplus leather G3 sling that I'd bought for stupid cheap just to have more of the HK sling hooks. The G3 leather sling is a bit narrow for the sling holes on the TAC-14 but adding a leather sling is a big improvement visually.
I think a surplus leather AK sling, likely Hungarian, with some modifications would be just about perfect to match the hardwood and I'll post pictures once I get that far with it.

I put about 60-70 shells through it last weekend. It was a ton of fun to shoot with a mix of leftover #7 and #8, but the pattern was definitely wide at the ~15yd pistol range I was on. That did make it really easy to roll soda cans around while shooting from the hip, though. You really have to hold on with both hands for good recoil control.
3in 00 buck was definitely sporting as far as recoil was concerned, but patterned much better than the birdshot. I believe one could manage 3" shells with good recoil control but I'll be sticking with 2 3/4 for this gun, and going for the 'low recoil' option whenever possible.
JDM supplied me with a box of #1 Flite Control he had kicking around and I'll be trying that on the next trip and formally patterning the gun.

So far, worth every penny of the ~$399 street price!

[Dagga Boy]

One of my early heroes and mentors was a monster legend in the USMS. He carried and used a Witness Protection 870 a lot. I dug my old 14” Barrel Hans Vang made for me to run on my department shotgun back in the 90’s. I ll be grabbing a hardwood Tac 14 for it.

[Joe45]

I got one of the hardwood TAC-14's when a shipment made them briefly available at a large distributor.

Fit & finish of the wood isn't old world Remington, but I didn't have any expectations about that. Plastic trigger housing and guard, and the wood birds-head grip doesn't fit the receiver 100% evenly if you really scrutinize it but is solid and otherwise unnoticeable. The supplied nylon sling sucks, so I ended up re-purposing a surplus leather G3 sling that I'd bought for stupid cheap just to have more of the HK sling hooks. The G3 leather sling is a bit narrow for the sling holes on the TAC-14 but adding a leather sling is a big improvement visually.
I think a surplus leather AK sling, likely Hungarian, with some modifications would be just about perfect to match the hardwood and I'll post pictures once I get that far with it.

I put about 60-70 shells through it last weekend. It was a ton of fun to shoot with a mix of leftover #7 and #8, but the pattern was definitely wide at the ~15yd pistol range I was on. That did make it really easy to roll soda cans around while shooting from the hip, though. You really have to hold on with both hands for good recoil control.
3in 00 buck was definitely sporting as far as recoil was concerned, but patterned much better than the birdshot. I believe one could manage 3" shells with good recoil control but I'll be sticking with 2 3/4 for this gun, and going for the 'low recoil' option whenever possible.
JDM supplied me with a box of #1 Flite Control he had kicking around and I'll be trying that on the next trip and formally patterning the gun.

So far, worth every penny of the ~$399 street price!I really had no desire for any of these until I saw the tac-14 hardwood at an lgs. I didn't handle it, but it looked nice!

[Dagga Boy]

I’ll save the comments...yes, the 80’s called and want their gun back. I used some Witness Protection type Guns in the 80’s and had Robar build custom ones for a couple of my SWAT guys. I am super Retro happy. Could care less how “practical” it is. It is cool as hell and when wielded by a large snowbeard who actually has a bit of real time running one when according to the internet, we had no clue what we were doing.

[Dagga Boy]

Buffalo leather sling Serious Student got for my wife’s hunting rifle from a yard sale....I stole it. Because if you are going retro....go retro!

[Bigghoss]

I’ll save the comments...yes, the 80’s called and want their gun back. I used some Witness Protection type Guns in the 80’s and had Robar build custom ones for a couple of my SWAT guys. I am super Retro happy. Could care less how “practical” it is. It is cool as hell and when wielded by a large snowbeard who actually has a bit of real time running one when according to the internet, we had no clue what we were doing.

Why do you always have to be cooler than everyone else?

[hufnagel]

Why do you always have to be cooler than everyone else?

Because

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41hoF7cbcpL._SX425_.jpg

[Bigghoss]

Because

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41hoF7cbcpL._SX425_.jpg

I have a mustache and I'm not that cool.

[SeriousStudent]

Buffalo leather sling Serious Student got for my wife’s hunting rifle from a yard sale....I stole it. Because if you are going retro....go retro!

Ain't nothing more retro than buffalo leather! :)

[03RN]

I’ll save the comments...yes, the 80’s called and want their gun back. I used some Witness Protection type Guns in the 80’s and had Robar build custom ones for a couple of my SWAT guys. I am super Retro happy. Could care less how “practical” it is. It is cool as hell and when wielded by a large snowbeard who actually has a bit of real time running one when according to the internet, we had no clue what we were doing.

Wood on these are awesome. Good looking gun.

The more I use mine, the more practical it becomes.

[Dagga Boy]

I have a bit of a benefit of actually testing these types of guns in the field and building different variants back in the late 80’s and early 90’s, as well as having solid contacts who had very extensive field use with them. It allows for the non-TV based reality of what they can and cannot do. Many of these guns are very specialized weapons. Normally, that is a negative, unless you don’t lie to yourself and use it in exactly the area that it is good for.

The one positive about tv and movie education is I know a vast majority of it is utter b.s., most crooks do not. Our guys who used these often saw that the crooks were intimidated by them. Most traditional shotguns used in police work are often handled like the sporting guns they are based on. Shotguns aggressively handled and used with solid gun handling is picked up on by crooks.

[1slow]

DB, your thoughts on 870 Tac 14 vs. ,V3 Tac 13 ?

Also general gun set up preferences please ?

Thanks.

[Chuck Whitlock]

DB, your thoughts on 870 Tac 14 vs. ,V3 Tac 13 ?

Also general gun set up preferences please ?

Thanks.

Ummmhh....That post is from 2018, and DB hasn't been active here in a little while.

[L-2]

Post 183,
Various choices are available regarding brand and model:
-Remarms Tac-13
-Remarms Tac-14
-Mossberg Shockwave 14"

Set-up can be anything you want accessories and personal preference:
-grips, stocks, slings, ammo carriers, lights, sights, etc.

My set-up and choices would likely be different from yours and not right or wrong.
I can say I bought a Remington Tac-14, with its current configuration being a short-barrel-shotgun (SBS) with a straight-stock, although I've got a solid-pistol-grip-stock which I've swapped back and forth over the years (personal preference).

If I was to do it over, I'd probably choose the Mossberg Shockwave, as the company seems more stable, with potentially better support for parts and service.

I've not researched and have zero experience with Remarms' Tac-13 or its full-size V3 models.

Otherwise, buy one or even all of them; try them out; mod them as desired; and report back here with what you've learned and decided upon.

[JTMcC]

He got the gun from Shotgun Dynamics a division of Suarez international. The strap is an option. https://suarezinternational.com/shotgun-dynamics/ Customer service is mon - fri 10:00 am- 5:00 pm "Arizona" time. No kidding thats what it said on their recording. The cs number is (928) 776-4492

Well, since this threads been brought back from the dead, and I'm going to buy some version of these little 12 ga. to carry as a "bigger than a handgun" on a motorcycle as I have a place it'll fit I read thru it.
I can address the "Arizona time" because it's a real thing, not that anybody is interested :)
AZ never adopted Daylight Savings Time, so part of the year we are synced with MST, part of the year our clocks read the same as Pacific time zone. The (large) Navajo rez DID adopt DST so there's that.

[rathos]

Not DB but I do have all three of them. If you are leaving them with the birdshead grip, the mossberg is the clear winner due to the placement of the safety. You also have a front sight that can be replaced very easy, which you need as the front sights on these guns are way to small and hard to see if you are trying to actually aim it. The Tac-13 shoos the softest, but there is some ammo it won't run reliably (It sometimes chokes on 8 pellet flight control which is my preferred shotgun load). The tac-14 does take mini shells without any modification, but I think they make an "S" version now that takes the short shells without modification. If you are going to SBS it, I would go with the tac-13 and call it good. The vent rib gives you a lot more options for sights and mine was also tapped for optics rail which my shockwave and tac-14 are not.

Shockwave wears a big green dot front, Tac-14 has a glue on XS dot (so far it has held up to a few hundred rounds) and the tac-13 is stock with a Demonstrated concepts hand strap. All of my shotguns use velcro shot cards so I can move the card to the shotgun I would be using.


DB, your thoughts on 870 Tac 14 vs. ,V3 Tac 13 ?

Also general gun set up preferences please ?

Thanks.