Anatomy of a conwoman: Elizabeth Holmes and the startup company Theranos

[LittleLebowski]

For the TL;DR crowd: chick lied about her "revolutionary" blood testing startup that could do all blood tests via tiny drop of blood, consciously emulated Steve Jobs, and lied, lied, and lied. Fascinating read.

Vanity Fair article (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-exclusive)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/07/1412688209682_wps_1_No_more_wondering_to_your.jpg

[11B10]

For the TL;DR crowd: chick lied about her "revolutionary" blood testing startup that could do all blood tests via tiny drop of blood, consciously emulated Steve Jobs, and lied, lied, and lied. Fascinating read.

Vanity Fair article (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-exclusive)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/07/1412688209682_wps_1_No_more_wondering_to_your.jpg



Thanks, LL - reading this made me wonder how many more "Royal Scams" there are just like it. And, how many people have, or will - die because of the greed of people like Elizabeth Holmes.

[Peally]

The really, really sad part is that cult creating asshole isn't rotting in a prison cell, and that the sham company still exists.

[fixer]

narcissism and group think run deep in corporations.

[Totem Polar]

Great read. Classic grifter stuff. The same thing happened at a univeristy I am familiar with; the charismatic chiick with deisigner uniforms, a polished and shiny back story, and dubious/exotic creds, the extravagant claims of revolutionary change, the compartmentalization of employees to better hide lies, huge dollars being thrown down a hole—first as an investment, then as a band aid—the SMEs all starting to question things, and the subsequent aggressive reprimanding and threatening of anyone who dared defy the trademark white designer suit.

Holmes is most likely 20 for 20 in the PCL-R checklist for psychopathy.

[JDD]

The really, really sad part is that cult creating asshole isn't rotting in a prison cell, and that the sham company still exists.

I am also a bit sad that a man I personally admire greatly, SecDef Mattis, was a board member until quite recently. I think it is a little reminder not to slip into hero worship, and to remember that high performance in one area does not necessarily mean someone is more broadly outstanding.

[Joe in PNG]

Anyone else find her kind of strangely hot?

[Totem Polar]

Anyone else find her kind of strangely hot?

No. She may be easy on the eyes, but's it's a trap. Poisonous lime green tree frogs look lovely too. Notice how she has "relationships" with, say, her COO, and one of the TV anchors mentioned, etc...

These psychos always weaponize banging. Pass.

[SamAdams]

And the femi-Nazis tell us the world would be a better place, if just women were in charge.

[Default.mp3]

And the femi-Nazis tell us the world would be a better place, if just women were in charge.Painting with an awful wide brush there, aren't you?

[SamAdams]

Nope.


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[Sigfan26]

Anyone else find her kind of strangely hot?


No. She may be easy on the eyes, but's it's a trap. Poisonous lime green tree frogs look lovely too. Notice how she has "relationships" with, say, her COO, and one of the TV anchors mentioned, etc...

These psychos always weaponize banging. Pass.

Well, I have nothing of value for her to take... So, yeah, I do.

[SamAdams]

Anyone else find her kind of strangely hot?

No.

IMO She has a wide eyed fanatic look about her. I don't trust people who don't blink much. Sometimes they want to appear sincere by maintaining eye contact.

[okie john]

Anyone else find her kind of strangely hot?

That's a REALLY good picture of her. Do a Google image search.


Okie John

[LittleLebowski]

That's a REALLY good picture of her. Do a Google image search.


Okie John

Yup. She also has the crazy eyes.

18015

[Coyotesfan97]

Yup. She also has the crazy eyes.

18015


+1 crazy eyes

[Joe in PNG]

Oh, I have no doubt that this chick is seriously bad news, and you'd probably be safer dating recent parolees, and yeah, never mind.

[Peally]

I am also a bit sad that a man I personally admire greatly, SecDef Mattis, was a board member until quite recently. I think it is a little reminder not to slip into hero worship, and to remember that high performance in one area does not necessarily mean someone is more broadly outstanding.

I am not surprised that many people followed her as they had their own objectives. I do however despise people like her for doing what she did.

[Peally]

Anyone else find her kind of strangely hot?

Nothing is a boner killer like knowing a person is psychotic. Sorry bro.

Reminds me of that Boston bomb guy. Doesn't matter how nice he looks to random girls, I have nothing but pure hatred for him.

[TAZ]

She found the perfect target audience. A society hell bent on social engineering than actual achievement.

[Totem Polar]

Well, I have nothing of value for her to take... So, yeah, I do.

[SamAdams]

Yup. She also has the crazy eyes.



Watch her in an interview, its worse.

[Paul D]

Theranos came to Arizona a couple of years ago with their show. They teamed up with Walgreens to open small labs all over the Phoenix Metro area. They help lobby for a law that allowed for people to order labs without a Rx from a physician. Their prices for lab tests were crazy: $17 for a cholesterol panel; $2 for an anticoagulation test called an INR. Plus unlike the conventional labs, you can get labs done 7 days a week. For my patients without insurance or high deductibles, it was a godsend. The Theranos sales rep was blond, blue eyed and pretty hot. Okay I'll try it out. It seemed too good to be true though. The lab results that came back were shit. Previously stable values were off with Theranos. I dumped using them after 1 month. After about 1 year, they were shut down by the FDA. I started getting letters in the mail that all the labs values 1 year ago were worthless or unreliable. Thanks God Holmes' outfit didn't harm any of my patients. Shoulda trusted my instincts.

[beenalongtime]

Yup. She also has the crazy eyes.

18015

Did anyone else see this image and think of Linda Blair from the Exorcist?

[Sigfan26]

Highly unlikely.


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[SamAdams]

Did anyone else see this image and think of Linda Blair from the Exorcist?

Yeah, in the interview I saw, I thought her head might spin around doing a 180.


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[Paul D]

Yeah, in the interview I saw, I thought her head might spin around doing a 180.


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The sales rep told me she was personally interviewed by Holmes as were all reps during final job selection. When I asked what she was like, the answer was "charming". Snap diagnosis: Yep..she's a psychopath.

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[Sensei]

Wait a minute. I thought Theranos was a fictional bad guy from the Guardians of the Galaxy movie. Now you are telling me that he exists and is responsible for all of those bizarre lab tests that I ordered? Mother fu - just when I was starting to get the hang of this whole medicine thing...

[trailrunner]

I've spent much of my career evaluating technologies. Standard questions I would ask were to explain how it works, and show me that it works. The world is full of snake-oil sales people, wether it's for medicine or golf clubs or cloaking devices. I wasn't the smartest person, but I had good intuition when people were bluffing. Maybe when I retire from DoD I can work for VCs evaluating technologies for them.

It is surprising that a young 20 something who couldn't make it through one year as a ChemE major (the classes haven't even gotten hard yet) got as far as she did. Yeah, college isn't a requirement to succeed, but analytical chemistry isn't the same as writing an app. And shame on the prof who endorsed her idea. I wish my thesis committee would have been that easy on me.


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[SamAdams]

I've spent much of my career evaluating technologies. Standard questions I would ask were to explain how it works, and show me that it works. The world is full of snake-oil sales people, wether it's for medicine or golf clubs or cloaking devices. I wasn't the smartest person, but I had good intuition when people were bluffing. Maybe when I retire from DoD I can work for VCs evaluating technologies for them.

It is surprising that a young 20 something who couldn't make it through one year as a ChemE major (the classes haven't even gotten hard yet) got as far as she did. Yeah, college isn't a requirement to succeed, but analytical chemistry isn't the same as writing an app. And shame on the prof who endorsed her idea. I wish my thesis committee would have been that easy on me.


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A very reasonable approach.


Maybe you can explain crypto currencies and 'the blockchain' .
(On a new thread ?)


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[SecondsCount]

It just goes to show that many people are sheep just looking for a strong leader. All she needed was a touch of momentum to get the snowball rolling but once the snowball got bigger, so did the lies.

[NEPAKevin]

Anyone else find her kind of strangely hot?

https://31.media.tumblr.com/6cbad2f60416bdec5f7d91d8a4762d82/tumblr_n35ttijFaY1tvw5iuo1_500.gif

:)

[Joe in PNG]

Note- I fully understand that the chick rates high on the Crazy scale, and one that would make anything to come after a living hell.
I just get a bit of stupid attraction to things that one knows are big mistakes- trainwreck chicks or SPAS 12 shotguns for instance.

[RevolverRob]

Note- I fully understand that the chick rates high on the Crazy scale, and one that would make anything to come after a living hell.
I just get a bit of stupid attraction to things that one knows are big mistakes- trainwreck chicks or SPAS 12 shotguns for instance.

This...I completely understand.

Last week I tried to buy a '67 Sunbeam Tiger. The only thing holding it together was the drivetrain. Everything - every single piece of sheet metal, needed to have a patch panel or be replaced. Fenders, rockers, floor pans, frame rails. It is a trainwreck of a car, the kind I wouldn't tell anyone to buy, ever. And yet there I was cash in hand, like Anthony Weiner with his cellphone and a hot chick's phone number...

The only thing that saved me from needing a tetanus booster was the fact that someone else came along with a bigger stack of cash.

As for the conwoman - conwoman, conman, they all have the same psychopathy. If you're even remotely a leader or independent and not a follower, you can usually smell it out fast. But if you've never been instilled with independent traits, you're a sucker waiting to get hooked. I've seen it happen dozens or times before. Charisma, fast-talking, big promises, mood-swings, code-switching - all clues that you can use to spot a psychopath.

[NEPAKevin]

Note- I fully understand that the chick rates high on the Crazy scale, and one that would make anything to come after a living hell.
I just get a bit of stupid attraction to things that one knows are big mistakes- trainwreck chicks or SPAS 12 shotguns for instance.

I understand. I just really like that quote from the first (and realistically only) season of True Detective from when Woody was stuppin' the Percy Jackson chick with the cray-cray eyes.

http://i.imgur.com/M987rXv.jpg

[Joe in PNG]

I understand. I just really like that quote from the first (and realistically only) season of True Detective from when Woody was stuppin' the Percy Jackson chick with the cray-cray eyes.

http://i.imgur.com/M987rXv.jpg

True- one of the more painful lessons a man can only learn from experience is to avoid the crazy ones. Even if you think you're going to have a bit of casual fun, if she has more drama than the Shakespearean acting company, better to run.

[Trigger]

Note- I fully understand that the chick rates high on the Crazy scale, and one that would make anything to come after a living hell.
I just get a bit of stupid attraction to things that one knows are big mistakes- trainwreck chicks or SPAS 12 shotguns for instance.

I hereby submit this explanation of the Crazy-Hot Matrix:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwbKYcBdVyk

[Coyotesfan97]

I hereby submit this explanation of the Crazy-Hot Matrix:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwbKYcBdVyk

I love that video. There's a couple single guys on the squad who can use it. We've actually had to look at date photos and say yea or nay for crazy eyes. Crazy eyes is a pretty good standard too.

[Poconnor]

Crazy women deserve their own thread. I always thought God had a sense of humor. So many of the hot women are crazy; and crazy pussy is the crack/heroin of pussy. Don't go there. I've seen too many police officers wreck their career and life over pussy.

[idahojess]

Indicted.

Holmes, 34 years old, and Balwani, 53, were each charged with two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and nine counts of wire fraud in an indictment handed up Thursday and unsealed Friday. If convicted, they each face a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison and a fine of $250,000, plus restitution to those found to have been defrauded, on each count.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/16/criminal-charges-filed-against-theranoss-elizabeth-holmes-ramesh-balwani.html

[11B10]

Indicted.

Holmes, 34 years old, and Balwani, 53, were each charged with two counts of conspiracy to commit wire fraud and nine counts of wire fraud in an indictment handed up Thursday and unsealed Friday. If convicted, they each face a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison and a fine of $250,000, plus restitution to those found to have been defrauded, on each count.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/06/16/criminal-charges-filed-against-theranoss-elizabeth-holmes-ramesh-balwani.html





As great as this ^^^^ is, I cannot believe she hasn't been charged with something worse - like murder. When I first heard about this, one of the first things I thought of was that she just had to have caused the deaths of people with her bogus analyses. Has anyone seen any cases where this has occurred?

[Sensei]

If you think this chick is bad, wait until reality catches up with Musk.

Then again, I suppose that we should hope that reality catches up to him before he decides to run for President...

[GardoneVT]

If you think this chick is bad, wait until reality catches up with Musk.

Then again, I suppose that we should hope that reality catches up to him before he decides to run for President...

Methinks the SEC investigation of Tesla will conclude long before then.

[Joe in PNG]

Just saw this on the flight to Alaska: The Inventor: Out for Blood.
(https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/the-inventor-out-for-blood-in-silicon-valley)
Great hoogly moogly- this chick has issues.

[RevolverRob]

I had to search, because I knew we had a thread on this crazy ass chick.

She was convicted on 4 of 11 counts today.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/03/tech/elizabeth-holmes-verdict/index.html

She got knocked up just before the trial. Many, myself included, viewed that as a ploy to gain sympathy from the jury.

Will she flee the country now?

[Paul D]

I had to search, because I knew we had a thread on this crazy ass chick.

She was convicted on 4 of 11 counts today.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/03/tech/elizabeth-holmes-verdict/index.html

She got knocked up just before the trial. Many, myself included, viewed that as a ploy to gain sympathy from the jury.

Will she flee the country now?

They took her passport. Unlike that Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn, she doesn't have the cash, former SAS commando on hand and no native country like Lebanon to escape too. Even though she was only convicted on 4 of 11 charges, she is up for 20 years. I hope they don't put her in FCI Phoenix. That would besmirch such a fine facility.

[Joe S]

If you think this chick is bad, wait until reality catches up with Musk.

Then again, I suppose that we should hope that reality catches up to him before he decides to run for President...

Could you expand on this?

[Le Français]

Unlike that Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn, she doesn't have the […] former SAS commando on hand

Former US Army Special Forces (and son)

[Cheap Shot]

Anyone else find her kind of strangely hot?

I understand where you're coming from based on that pic. I've learned the hard way someone can be beautiful on the outside and very, very ugly on the inside.

And vice versa

[RJ]

They took her passport. Unlike that Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn, she doesn't have the cash, former SAS commando on hand and no native country like Lebanon to escape too. Even though she was only convicted on 4 of 11 charges, she is up for 20 years. I hope they don't put her in FCI Phoenix. That would besmirch such a fine facility.

I'm reliably informed that she's considering taking a position at CNN as Chief Medical Advisor, teamed up with Jeffrey Toobin. They are working on a new show to be called Exposed: Stories in the real life treatment of male ED.













/sarc :cool:

[Borderland]

If you think this chick is bad, wait until reality catches up with Musk.

Then again, I suppose that we should hope that reality catches up to him before he decides to run for President...

That's a scary thought right there. Kind of a real life Evil Empire scenario unfolding.

[RevolverRob]

Could you expand on this?

When Sensei made his initial post (2018 or '19 I forget). Musk was embroiled in a battle with the SEC:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-13/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-can-t-stop-taunting-the-sec

Who still haven't managed to nail that narcissistic con artist down.

[Stephanie B]

When Sensei made his initial post (2018 or '19 I forget). Musk was embroiled in a battle with the SEC:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-13/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-can-t-stop-taunting-the-sec

Who still haven't managed to nail that narcissistic con artist down.

I don't know whether the billionaire narcissist who ends up destroying the plane in Don't Look Up (https://www.netflix.com/title/81252357) is based on Steve Jobs or Elon Musk. Maybe a bit of both.

[Borderland]

The fact that is Musk is working both sides of the street. He took billions in gov't subsidies and now says they should end. One theory is it was advantageous to for him to establish his tech companies and make them profitable. Now the subsidies stand to profit his competition, he's against them. That position also plays into the GOP position of lowering the deficit spending that the Biden adm is pushing. Musk has also sold 16 billion worth of Tesla stock in the last few months.

I see Musk as a possible GOP candidate in 24. He's making all the right moves and saying all the (politically) right things now. He'll be a well established conservative by 24 and people will mostly believe his BS.

[Clusterfrack]

For the TL;DR crowd: chick lied about her "revolutionary" blood testing startup that could do all blood tests via tiny drop of blood, consciously emulated Steve Jobs, and lied, lied, and lied. Fascinating read.

Vanity Fair article (http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/elizabeth-holmes-theranos-exclusive)

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/07/1412688209682_wps_1_No_more_wondering_to_your.jpg


Anyone else find her kind of strangely hot?

No. She may be easy on the eyes, but's it's a trap. Poisonous lime green tree frogs look lovely too. Notice how she has "relationships" with, say, her COO, and one of the TV anchors mentioned, etc...

These psychos always weaponize banging. Pass.

I saw her speak at a DoD event, ~2002(?). This was at a highly competitive pitch-fest that included a bunch of snake-oil salesmen. Holmes was very charismatic. I recall wanting her to succeed but being skeptical about her claims, which seemed too good to be true and lacked mechanistic details. The program managers appeared skeptical as well, and I do not think she secured any funding.

Was Holmes hot? Some groups brought female 'assistants' who were total eye candy--such an obvious ploy that I think that strategy was a disadvantage. Holmes was attractive, but she also had an earnest intensity that appeared genuine. In a room full of defense contractors and old .mil guys, she stood out. I totally understand how her con succeeded in a less competitive environment.

[Tabasco]

I don't know whether the billionaire narcissist who ends up destroying the plane in Don't Look Up (https://www.netflix.com/title/81252357) is based on Steve Jobs or Elon Musk. Maybe a bit of both.

I was thinking more Steve Jobs, but definitely a composite character based on all of those techie billionaire types (who are here to solve all of our problems). I liked that movie more than I thought I would.

[Joe S]

When Sensei made his initial post (2018 or '19 I forget). Musk was embroiled in a battle with the SEC:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-13/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-can-t-stop-taunting-the-sec

Who still haven't managed to nail that narcissistic con artist down.

I always feel like I'm missing something when people talk about Musk. I've not done a very deep dive on it, but I have listened to a number of interviews with him. He seems to me to have a heck of an ego, which seems par for the course with very rich folks, but also people in the technical disciplines who are actually successful. Other than that, he just seems like a REALLY bright guy somewhere on the autism spectrum who has identified a couple of big and real problems for the human species and is attempting, within a non-ideal system, to do something about them. I never understood the LA tunnel thing, really, but Space-X and Tesla make sense to me that way, even if I potentially would have gone about it a different way.

As for him being an asshole, assholes are a dime a dozen and people who are socially awkward can often appear to be assholes while having no ill intent.

Not looking to carry his banner, I just am not sure why he seems so disliked. But, that is quite likely a failing in my perception, so that's why I ask. I might also have a personal blindspot, a touch, for anyone who might be an intelligent person for whom a lot of common social interactions are very tough to navigate. I feel as though that's me, much of the time.

[TGS]

I always feel like I'm missing something when people talk about Musk. I've not done a very deep dive on it, but I have listened to a number of interviews with him. He seems to me to have a heck of an ego, which seems par for the course with very rich folks, but also people in the technical disciplines who are actually successful. Other than that, he just seems like a REALLY bright guy somewhere on the autism spectrum who has identified a couple of big and real problems for the human species and is attempting, within a non-ideal system, to do something about them. I never understood the LA tunnel thing, really, but Space-X and Tesla make sense to me that way, even if I potentially would have gone about it a different way.

As for him being an asshole, assholes are a dime a dozen and people who are socially awkward can often appear to be assholes while having no ill intent.

Not looking to carry his banner, I just am not sure why he seems so disliked. But, that is quite likely a failing in my perception, so that's why I ask. I might also have a personal blindspot, a touch, for anyone who might be an intelligent person for whom a lot of common social interactions are very tough to navigate. I feel as though that's me, much of the time.

I'm sort of on the same page. I never realized he was that disliked. I figured the funny memes about him being from the future and whatnot were just plays on his personality as a tech person and his goals, and just harmless banter.

[Coyotesfan97]

If you think this chick is bad, wait until reality catches up with Musk.

Then again, I suppose that we should hope that reality catches up to him before he decides to run for President...

He was born in South Africa. He’s not eligible.

[RevolverRob]

I see Musk as a possible GOP candidate in 24. He's making all the right moves and saying all the (politically) right things now. He'll be a well established conservative by 24 and people will mostly believe his BS.

South African by birth, no chance. Plus, one if the wealthiest men in the world doesn't want to be President. If folks don't think Elon Musk has POTUS and VPOTUS in his phone contacts, they're crazy. Money talks and Elon Musk has plenty of it

Elon Musk does what benefits Elon Musk. Dig even an inch below the surface and you'll find a narcissist with a history of abusive and shady behavior. Overwhelming tendency to attack people to make them go away. He stirs up trouble because it's profitable to him. I believe nothing he does comes from a genuine place of actual care, but that at times his and public interests somewhat align.

The man makes money, but I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.

That said he has the ability to manipulate the market(s) to his favor. Don't bet against the man. None of us can touch him for wealth, follow the man and make money off of him.

[NEPAKevin]

He was born in South Africa. He’s not eligible.

What if he "lost" his birth certificate and ran as a progressive? :D

[Joe S]

I'm sort of on the same page. I never realized he was that disliked. I figured the funny memes about him being from the future and whatnot were just plays on his personality as a tech person and his goals, and just harmless banter.

After reading the afore-mentioned Bloomberg article, I get it a little better. He's perceived by many in a similar class to how some people took/take Trump (funny and a fighter if you decided he was your guy, a rather odious human if you decided he wasn't).

As for the SEC stuff, I can see the concern. I also think there's a ton of shady stuff that goes on in finance markets, and much of even sanctioned stuff is fairly ethically questionable in a broader sense/stupid in terms of benefitting humans as a whole. So I can see how folks get really wound up about a really rich dude breaking the rules in a way us serfs can't. I also don't get too wound up if someone is antagonistic on Twitter, especially towards the government or long-established power structures.

Thanks, all.

[Stephanie B]

I don't know whether the billionaire narcissist who ends up destroying the plane in Don't Look Up (https://www.netflix.com/title/81252357) is based on Steve Jobs or Elon Musk. Maybe a bit of both.

“Planet”…. dammit.

[JDD]

I always feel like I'm missing something when people talk about Musk. I've not done a very deep dive on it, but I have listened to a number of interviews with him. He seems to me to have a heck of an ego, which seems par for the course with very rich folks, but also people in the technical disciplines who are actually successful. Other than that, he just seems like a REALLY bright guy somewhere on the autism spectrum who has identified a couple of big and real problems for the human species and is attempting, within a non-ideal system, to do something about them. I never understood the LA tunnel thing, really, but Space-X and Tesla make sense to me that way, even if I potentially would have gone about it a different way.

As for him being an asshole, assholes are a dime a dozen and people who are socially awkward can often appear to be assholes while having no ill intent.

Not looking to carry his banner, I just am not sure why he seems so disliked. But, that is quite likely a failing in my perception, so that's why I ask. I might also have a personal blindspot, a touch, for anyone who might be an intelligent person for whom a lot of common social interactions are very tough to navigate. I feel as though that's me, much of the time.

I think the vitriol at Musk is new. Some of it is mindless "pay your taxes you rich douche" bile from the usual suspects, but there are legit criticisms.

The dude is a tremendous hypocrite regarding his stances about a number of different government and regulatory issues. He has absolutely zero respect for convention, and the ability to make very good convention challenging decisions that have rapidly built SpaceX and Tesla into juggernauts that were underestimated right up to the point where they became industry crushing dark swans.

The problem is that he also does not seem to understand how some of those policies have benefited him in the past, and enabled him to build his operations. Sure he can complain about regulations, but carbon regulatory credits and green energy assistance kept Tesla alive and growing for a long time. SpaceX would never have been able to make it past the hump without a number of programs specifically designed to carve money out for space startups. Little things like that. Not to mention, the longer term benefits that his companies depend on using the highly educated US talent pool, and the physical and tech infrastructure that he depends on. Its a straight up pull-the-ladder-up-after-me kinda attitude. He is processing them as obstacles that stand between him and his next immediate goal, and he responds appropriately, without considering the broader reasons behind them (or he does, but he thinks his personal/company goals supersede them in importance). Oddly enough, it's making him more well liked by the conservative/libertarian end of the spectrum, but I don't think it's a politically calculated move.

The dude's personal life and social interactions go a fair bit beyond socially awkward, with some pretty shocking gaffes, but I suspect that is the touch of meglomania and whatever else he has going on.

Bottom line for me is I love what he's built, the conventions he has toppled through his willingness to start at basic principals and avoid the sunk cost fallacy; and the direction he is taking at least two of his flagship companies, but I would never want to work directly for him, and I think that SpaceX has benefited tremendously by having Gwynne Shotwell as the adult in the room - just compare and contrast with the billionaire tantrum that Bezos threw over blue origin correctly being downselected on the Artimis program.

(I also invested in Tesla a number of years ago, because I liked the direction Musk was pushing it, so I may not be the most unbiased observer).

[NEPAKevin]

I wonder if Holmes looks and the current COVID test shortage and thinks to herself... what if?

[Bio]

South African by birth, no chance. Plus, one if the wealthiest men in the world doesn't want to be President. If folks don't think Elon Musk has POTUS and VPOTUS in his phone contacts, they're crazy. Money talks and Elon Musk has plenty of it

Elon Musk does what benefits Elon Musk. Dig even an inch below the surface and you'll find a narcissist with a history of abusive and shady behavior. Overwhelming tendency to attack people to make them go away. He stirs up trouble because it's profitable to him. I believe nothing he does comes from a genuine place of actual care, but that at times his and public interests somewhat align.

The man makes money, but I wouldn't trust him as far as I can throw him.

That said he has the ability to manipulate the market(s) to his favor. Don't bet against the man. None of us can touch him for wealth, follow the man and make money off of him.

I expect this applies to almost every centi-billionaire.

[Joe in PNG]

For those who keep quoting my 2017 comment based on the single photo LL posted- my views changed completely after watching the documentary about Theranos "The Inventor: Out for Blood".

[Sensei]

I always feel like I'm missing something when people talk about Musk. I've not done a very deep dive on it, but I have listened to a number of interviews with him. He seems to me to have a heck of an ego, which seems par for the course with very rich folks, but also people in the technical disciplines who are actually successful. Other than that, he just seems like a REALLY bright guy somewhere on the autism spectrum who has identified a couple of big and real problems for the human species and is attempting, within a non-ideal system, to do something about them. I never understood the LA tunnel thing, really, but Space-X and Tesla make sense to me that way, even if I potentially would have gone about it a different way.

As for him being an asshole, assholes are a dime a dozen and people who are socially awkward can often appear to be assholes while having no ill intent.

Not looking to carry his banner, I just am not sure why he seems so disliked. But, that is quite likely a failing in my perception, so that's why I ask. I might also have a personal blindspot, a touch, for anyone who might be an intelligent person for whom a lot of common social interactions are very tough to navigate. I feel as though that's me, much of the time.

Take a look at the financial performance of Tesla over the past 3 years and place it into the context of this article:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/01/31/investing/tesla-profitability/index.html

It’s not that I dislike Musk. I never met the guy. I’m just skeptical that his net worth and Tesla’s profitability is based on anything other than smoke and mirrors.

Ok, ok. I’ll admit that it’s hard for me to stomach people whose business model centers on government imposed market distortions and then pitches a fit when the same government tries to regulate and tax him.

[0ddl0t]

Is it true that the "points" assigned for sentencing guidelines are based on the amount of money from the fraud charges levied against her - and not the amount of money from the fraud charges she was convicted of?

[Paul D]

Former US Army Special Forces (and son)

That's right...America...Fuck Yeah

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/JnSDo2yA8l4/maxresdefault.jpg

[shootist26]

Who here has read Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup? The author John Carreyou is a fantastic investigative journalist and did a great job shedding light on the inner workings of Theranos and its day to day operations.

I also recommend the podcast "The Dropout" which focuses more on Holmes as a person. It's from 2019 but they just released a bunch of new episodes for 2021
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dropout/id1449500734

[NEPAKevin]

Ok, ok. I’ll admit that it’s hard for me to stomach people whose business model centers on government imposed market distortions and then pitches a fit when the same government tries to regulate and tax him.

While I get the hypocrisy aspect, the big issue I see with Tesla's business model is that from what I have read and heard, if you wreck one, you are screwed. The first article a web search found is linked below (from 2019) mentions wait times of six months or more not being unusual.

The thing about owning a Tesla no one talks about — nightmarish repair delays (https://www.sfgate.com/cars/article/tesla-repair-wait-time-complaints-electric-car-13796037.php)

[Sensei]

While I get the hypocrisy aspect, the big issue I see with Tesla's business model is that from what I have read and heard, if you wreck one, you are screwed. The first article a web search found is linked below (from 2019) mentions wait times of six months or more not being unusual.

The thing about owning a Tesla no one talks about — nightmarish repair delays (https://www.sfgate.com/cars/article/tesla-repair-wait-time-complaints-electric-car-13796037.php)

This guy decided to blow his up rather than pay the $22,000 to replace the battery.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2021/12/30/tesla-exploded-dynamite-repair-costs-22k-moos-pkg-vpx.cnn

[Joe in PNG]

Credit where credit is due. Of the current lot of tech billionaires, Musk is the one who's not actively working to control people directly via some sort of cyberpunk dystopian multinational technocratic fascism.
Like Zuck has been doing.

[okie john]

And, how many people have, or will - die because of the greed of people like Elizabeth Holmes.

Greed drove Martin Shkreli. I think that power, fame, and influence drove Holmes. Money is just how you keep track at that level.


Okie John

[jh9]

cyberpunk dystopian multinational technocratic fascism.

Cyberpunk dystopian multinational technocratic fascism is inevitable. Ol Musky just wants your truck to look like it belongs there.

[RevolverRob]

Cyberpunk dystopian multinational technocratic fascism is inevitable. Ol Musky just wants your truck to look like it belongs there.

And drives you there.

And drives you there on government subsidies that went to his company and not his competitors.

And drives you there, because autonomous cars are the future and all others should be banned. At least as long as those autonomous cars are Teslas.

Also, raise your hand if you genuinely think Tesla isn't recording everything said and done inside of their cars...

What's the difference between Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg? Zuck owns the social media platform that he uses to manipulate financial markets, Musk borrows Zuck's platform and uses it to manipulate financial markets.

Those dudes are two sides of the same coin...

[EMC]

Has her voice gone back up after conviction or is she still faking the baritone? [emoji38]

[Ed L]

I can't understand how someone like her doesn't realize that she is not going to get away with it. The writing was on the wall with this one long before she was brought up on charges. There was ample evidence that she was looking at trouble before she was charged. She should've wired $10 million+ to the Cayman Islands, and from there had it wired to some country where the US doesn't have an extradition treaty, and then left the country. I understand that Serbia is nice this time of the year (unless of course you are a Moslem, and Albanian,

In looking at the HBO documentary on her her and reading various things, I get the impression that she was delusional and actually believed her own lies.

[Stephanie B]

Greed drove Martin Shkreli. I think that power, fame, and influence drove Holmes. Money is just how you keep track at that level.

There was some billionaire on one of the Star Trek episodes who made the point that money was how one kept score.


I can't understand how someone like her doesn't realize that she is not going to get away with it. The writing was on the wall with this one long before she was brought up on charges. There was ample evidence that she was looking at trouble before she was charged. She should've wired $10 million+ to the Cayman Islands, and from there had it wired to some country where the US doesn't have an extradition treaty, and then left the country. I understand that Serbia is nice this time of the year (unless of course you are a Moslem, and Albanian,

In looking at the HBO documentary on her her and reading various things, I get the impression that she was delusional and actually believed her own lies.

Few things are sadder than a con artist drinking their own kool-aid. I wonder, though, if she had tried to con people with something that wasn't in the medical field, if she could have pulled off stalling things until she had a semi-workable product.

[okie john]

Few things are sadder than a con artist drinking their own kool-aid. I wonder, though, if she had tried to con people with something that wasn't in the medical field, if she could have pulled off stalling things until she had a semi-workable product.

That's SOP in the tech field. Talk about vaporware, then attract enough investment to bring it to life.


Okie John

[Joe in PNG]

A con's first victim may well be themselves.

[RevolverRob]

I can't understand how someone like her doesn't realize that she is not going to get away with it. The writing was on the wall with this one long before she was brought up on charges. There was ample evidence that she was looking at trouble before she was charged. She should've wired $10 million+ to the Cayman Islands, and from there had it wired to some country where the US doesn't have an extradition treaty, and then left the country. I understand that Serbia is nice this time of the year (unless of course you are a Moslem, and Albanian,

Samoa is nice year round.

I feel like that's a sensible step in the process. You get enough money going that you can skim a sizeable chunk out, without it really being noticed. That's your pre-established escape network. And then you get out if things start to head south.

I just don't get it...Fight or Flight is a fundamental instinct - you should always have a plan for both.




In looking at the HBO documentary on her her and reading various things, I get the impression that she was delusional and actually believed her own lies.

That's sad.

[Wise_A]

Yup. She also has the crazy eyes.

18015

Blindfolds are a thing.

I believe we've covered this.

That said, if I've learned one thing from the last two years of being a secretary for the po-po, it's this: don't put your dick in crazy.

[WobblyPossum]

Samoa is nice year round.


Samoa is an American territory. That’s pretty much the opposite of “no extradition treaty.”

ETA: so, I didn’t realize Samoa and American Samoa were two different things. Please, ignore me because I’m an idiot.

[ccmdfd]

Who here has read Bad Blood: Secrets and Lies in a Silicon Valley Startup? The author John Carreyou is a fantastic investigative journalist and did a great job shedding light on the inner workings of Theranos and its day to day operations.

I also recommend the podcast "The Dropout" which focuses more on Holmes as a person. It's from 2019 but they just released a bunch of new episodes for 2021
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-dropout/id1449500734

Thanks for the recommendation of Bad Blood. It's a great read/listen.

I'm about 2/3 through. I'm amazed how many people knew that this was all a sham, but when they brought it to the attention of those who could have stopped it, it went nowhere. She had really smitten them.

Love the part about Joe's visit to the lab.