Mom w/ baby in OK kills man breaking in to her house

[secondstoryguy]

They got the whole event recorded on the 911 call. Sounds like she was pretty calm about the whole thing:

http://gma.yahoo.com/video/news-26797925/oklahoma-mother-18-kills-intruder-breaking-into-her-home-while-on-phone-with-911-27777235.html

[Kyle Reese]

Sounds like the intruder got what he deserved.

[Sparks2112]

Wonder if they'll charge the accomplice with murder.

[Le Français]

It's difficult to call this a "good" ending, but it beats the hell out of the alternative...

[Ray Keith]

Wonder if they'll charge the accomplice with murder.

That would be a likely result in Texas.

[NickA]

Unfreakinbelievable...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/05/justice/oklahoma-intruder-shooting/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Kudos to the sheriff for supporting the dispatcher and the victim, but this is just goofy. I hope the young lady still has her shotgun handy.

[JB326]

That would be a likely result in Texas.

Same in AL. Early in my career we had a home invasion where the husband ended up freeing himself and shooting the intruder as he came down the stairs after forcing the wife to give him a tour of the house and goods. The getaway driver (perp's wife) is now serving a life sentence for capital murder.

Great job on the part of this young lady though. I hope year is better or her than last year was.

[LittleLebowski]

I would like to donate to her to help out.

[jmjames]

I would like to donate to her to help out.

I would too. I couldn't find anything with searches. I've asked some folks in the news industry (I freelance for a CBS property) to see if they can get me in touch with a reporter who may know more or be able to connect donors to Ms. McKinley.

J.Ja

[LOKNLOD]

Guys this is local to me (actually in my home county), and I have heard there are funds set up - I will find out and report back.

ETA: Try This link. (http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-fund-set-up-for-teen-mom-forced-to-kill-intruder-20120105,0,7536332.story) If that link stops working, it's at:

Sarah D. McKinley Donation Account
C/O Chickasha Bank & Trust
P.O. BOX 1307
Chickasha, OK 73023
(405) 222-0550

And lest anyone wonder, Chickasha Bank & Trust is a legit place, my grandma worked there for many years and my family has banked there quite a bit. I would assume if you call them they might have other options for donations.

[fuse]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/jim-sutherland/ok-dgu-sarah-mckinleys-big-mistake/


I have to say I agree with the author. that is not a good picture.

[JDM]

That picture is...unfortunate.

[TGS]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/jim-sutherland/ok-dgu-sarah-mckinleys-big-mistake/


I have to say I agree with the author. that is not a good picture.

This:
"It’s not that the image glamorizes guns or violence. It’s that the timing of the image trivializes the toughest decision that can be made with a firearm. No matter how righteous a shoot, gun owners do themselves no favors by macho posturing. Or what looks to be macho posturing."

[jmjames]

Try This link. (http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-fund-set-up-for-teen-mom-forced-to-kill-intruder-20120105,0,7536332.story) If that link stops working, it's at:

Sarah D. McKinley Donation Account
C/O Chickasha Bank & Trust
P.O. BOX 1307
Chickasha, OK 73023
(405) 222-0550


Thanks!

J.Ja

[SLG]

You guys are a tough crowd. Would I pose for that photo? No. But then, I'm not an 18 year old mother who just shot an intruder, lost my husband the week before, and had to ask a 911 operator for legal/tactical advice. I'd cut her some slack.

[JDM]

I was just about to edit my post to say something like that.

I can't really say how I would've acted being put into that position at 18.

Being put into that situation at any age sucks, but 18. Wow.

[LOKNLOD]

I think that photo is actually a still from one of the interview videos where she was demonstrating where she was standing, etc. Perhaps not an ideal move either, but I don't think it's staged for that shot. Is that a single action type revolver hanging in her support hand?

[fuse]

You guys are a tough crowd. Would I pose for that photo? No. But then, I'm not an 18 year old mother who just shot an intruder, lost my husband the week before, and had to ask a 911 operator for legal/tactical advice. I'd cut her some slack.

I am just worried for her, is all.

[rsa-otc]

You guys are a tough crowd. Would I pose for that photo? No. But then, I'm not an 18 year old mother who just shot an intruder, lost my husband the week before, and had to ask a 911 operator for legal/tactical advice. I'd cut her some slack.

+100000000

[LittleLebowski]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/jim-sutherland/ok-dgu-sarah-mckinleys-big-mistake/


I have to say I agree with the author. that is not a good picture.

I am not cool with that blogger posting that. Not at all. Agreed with SLG.

[TCinVA]

This:
"It’s not that the image glamorizes guns or violence. It’s that the timing of the image trivializes the toughest decision that can be made with a firearm. No matter how righteous a shoot, gun owners do themselves no favors by macho posturing. Or what looks to be macho posturing."

Perhaps I'm a bit out of the mainstream, but I can't help myself:

It's not "macho posturing". Would I pose for the pic? Probably not...but I'm probably a little better prepared for such an event than the 18 year old young woman who was just set upon by a couple of violent scumbags.

We live in a world populated by some truly violent scumsuckers who will take innocent life literally because they think it's good sport. When one of these violent scumbags catches a face full of buckshot and is sent to cold oblivion before he can rape or kill a vulnerable young woman, it's a net win for society.

The idea that good, decent, law-abiding people should be sitting in the fetal position blowing snot bubbles over the fate of some knife-wielding thug who got blown away after spending a bunch of time trying to bust through the door of that woman's home is infuriating and morally repugnant. That young lady is probably very calm because she did the right thing. Those guys insisted on threatening her and her child. They had abundant opportunities to knock off their obnoxious behavior and go be productive citizens, but instead they decided to press an attack on what they thought was easy prey. Turns out she wasn't easy prey and when they had backed her into a corner she fought back and one of the bad guys got to experience bleeding out on her carpet instead of her. Occupational hazard of being a ******* scumbag.

Screw him.

We're not talking about someone who was out looking for trouble and trying to fulfill some retarded Charles Bronson fantasy here, folks...we're talking about a young woman who was in her own house taking care of her child when a couple of dope heads showed up to rob her because they read an obituary and figured she'd have drugs. Think about the level of moral depravity it takes to look at the story of a man who died of cancer, notice that he's survived by only his young widow and small child, and then to figure it's a great score. That's genuine sociopath territory.

She has every right to be calm and confident because by every moral and legal tradition that's worth anything she did the right thing. She used lethal force only after those jackasses took every other alternative off the table with their actions. They insisted on somebody getting hurt that night.

It's possible for a good, decent, moral human being left with no choice in the matter to shoot somebody and afterwards have no more negative emotional impact about it than they would have for stepping on a cockroach. The last thing they need is for people to run around hand-wringing about why they aren't at least attempting to look like they're barely holding it together in the aftermath, especially if they've never been anywhere near that situation for themselves. She didn't pull that trigger for fun. She pulled the trigger because in that instant she was certain that she was out of options and it was either shoot or die screaming at the end of that knife.

Should she have posed for the picture? It's not what I would have advised her to do, but I'm not there. It sounds to me like she's largely on her own and is trying to deal with a media frenzy that she didn't ask for. It's absurd for gun rights advocates to try and put her on a pedestal she never asked to be on and then get all pissed off if she doesn't do every tiny thing exactly according to the script that is supposedly good for "gun rights" in their mind. If they weren't willing to fly out to her place and run interference with news producers who are looking for visuals to go with the story so they can get ratings, then they should hush.

There's nothing "disquieting" about the image of a woman who is willing to kill somebody if they insist on threatening her or her child. It's deeply disquieting to see people who claim to be 2nd amendment advocates getting weak in the knees when a law abiding gun owner does precisely what she was supposed to do and doesn't look to be worse for the wear because of it.

[LittleLebowski]

Has anyone here actually dealt with a three month old baby by yourself? Not with a spouse, by yourself? Ever wonder what it's like to be so sleep deprived that you wake up and you don't know if you were putting your shoes on or taking them off? Now compound that by adding the death of your spouse on Christmas Day after a bout with cancer.

[TGS]

It's not "macho posturing". Would I pose for the pic? Probably not...but I'm probably a little better prepared for such an event than the 18 year old young woman who was just set upon by a couple of violent scumbags.

I guess pictures of people pointing guns at the camera seem to annoy me. Kinda like emulating Dirty Harry or something.

We live in a world populated by some truly violent scumsuckers who will take innocent life literally because they think it's good sport. When one of these violent scumbags catches a face full of buckshot and is sent to cold oblivion before he can rape or kill a vulnerable young woman, it's a net win for society.

Agreed. I didn't see anyone say it isn't.

The idea that good, decent, law-abiding people should be sitting in the fetal position blowing snot bubbles over the fate of some knife-wielding thug who got blown away after spending a bunch of time trying to bust through the door of that woman's home is infuriating and morally repugnant. That young lady is probably very calm because she did the right thing. Those guys insisted on threatening her and her child. They had abundant opportunities to knock off their obnoxious behavior and go be productive citizens, but instead they decided to press an attack on what they thought was easy prey. Turns out she wasn't easy prey and when they had backed her into a corner she fought back and one of the bad guys got to experience bleeding out on her carpet instead of her. Occupational hazard of being a ******* scumbag.

Screw him.

I don't think anyone is defending him.

We're not talking about someone who was out looking for trouble and trying to fulfill some retarded Charles Bronson fantasy here, folks...we're talking about a young woman who was in her own house taking care of her child when a couple of dope heads showed up to rob her because they read an obituary and figured she'd have drugs. Think about the level of moral depravity it takes to look at the story of a man who died of cancer, notice that he's survived by only his young widow and small child, and then to figure it's a great score. That's genuine sociopath territory.

She has every right to be calm and confident because by every moral and legal tradition that's worth anything she did the right thing. She used lethal force only after those jackasses took every other alternative off the table with their actions. They insisted on somebody getting hurt that night.

It's possible for a good, decent, moral human being left with no choice in the matter to shoot somebody and afterwards have no more negative emotional impact about it than they would have for stepping on a cockroach. The last thing they need is for people to run around hand-wringing about why they aren't at least attempting to look like they're barely holding it together in the aftermath, especially if they've never been anywhere near that situation for themselves. She didn't pull that trigger for fun. She pulled the trigger because in that instant she was certain that she was out of options and it was either shoot or die screaming at the end of that knife.

Should she have posed for the picture? It's not what I would have advised her to do, but I'm not there. It sounds to me like she's largely on her own and is trying to deal with a media frenzy that she didn't ask for. It's absurd for gun rights advocates to try and put her on a pedestal she never asked to be on and then get all pissed off if she doesn't do every tiny thing exactly according to the script that is supposedly good for "gun rights" in their mind. If they weren't willing to fly out to her place and run interference with news producers who are looking for visuals to go with the story so they can get ratings, then they should hush.

There's nothing "disquieting" about the image of a woman who is willing to kill somebody if they insist on threatening her or her child. It's deeply disquieting to see people who claim to be 2nd amendment advocates getting weak in the knees when a law abiding gun owner does precisely what she was supposed to do and doesn't look to be worse for the wear because of it.

I'd like for you to point out who is getting "weak in the knees" about this, or comparing her to a Charles Bronson fantasy. I can't find it.




Has anyone here actually dealt with a three month old baby by yourself? Not with a spouse, by yourself? Ever wonder what it's like to be so sleep deprived that you wake up and you don't know if you were putting your shoes on or taking them off? Now compound that by adding the death of your spouse on Christmas Day after a bout with cancer.

Whoa, dude. Let me get that chip off your shoulder.

_______________________________

Maybe I'm reading that blog a different way than some of you. You guys seem to think that we're lambasting her or something. I'm not even going to try and explain it, because ya'll seem a bit emotionally tied up in it between screwing scumbags and raising kids.

[LittleLebowski]

No, I understand what the blog is trying to say but I have issues with the delivery and also the relevance of armchair quarterbacking a photo op. That gal has seen the elephant; doing so on very little sleep, grief stricken, alone (her dogs were recently killed), with a three month old child depending on her for food, attention, and protection. But someone is complaining about a picture she took, labeling it "macho posturing" and attempting to rationalize their outright snideness with "well, what if the perp's family gets angry?" BS. The least you guys (TTAG) could do is make a donation to that gal and a little hindsight would encourage you guys (TTAG) to change the tone of that article lambasting that eighteen year old who has seen the elephant and done well.

[TGS]

and a little hindsight would encourage you to change the tone of that article lambasting that eighteen year old who has seen the elephant and done well.

Didn't know I wrote the article and had the power to change it.

I'm done.

[LittleLebowski]

Didn't know I wrote the article and had the power to change it.

I'm done.

Sorry, it was a collective "you." Acknowledged that you did not write it but you are defending it. I note that I said "you guys" when first referring to TTAG in my last post.

[HCM]

No, I understand what the blog is trying to say but I have issues with the delivery and also the relevance of armchair quarterbacking a photo op. That gal has seen the elephant; doing so on very little sleep, grief stricken, alone (her dogs were recently killed), with a three month old child depending on her for food, attention, and protection. But someone is complaining about a picture she took, labeling it "macho posturing" and attempting to rationalize their outright snideness with "well, what if the perp's family gets angry?" BS. The least you guys (TTAG) could do is make a donation to that gal and a little hindsight would encourage you guys (TTAG) to change the tone of that article lambasting that eighteen year old who has seen the elephant and done well.

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so is this "macho posturing" ?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_m03SBUs5nZQ/S-R51d3riVI/AAAAAAAAAJc/QN04bcKQnZI/s1600/Bear+Mad.jpg

How about in this context ?

http://streamdoubletrouble.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/mama-and-baby-bear.jpg

I am in awe of this young woman's resilience

[LittleLebowski]

Like I said on my blog, the lady at the bank running the donation fund for this valiant young mother said only snail mail donations are being accepted at this time.

[Mr_White]

This thread reminds me of something. It’s a bit of a tangent, and I’m not really disagreeing with much of anything that’s been said here, but what the heck…

Several years ago, I attended the LFI Judicious Use of Deadly Force Instructor class. It was full of what I would call ‘minor instructor types’ (no negativity meant with that): people who taught the proverbial CCW class, or didn’t typically have their own school or road show, but worked in an assistant capacity at someone else’s school.

At some point in the class, it became apparent to me that we were being taught to have some of the conceptual, legal, and communicative tools specifically to support the legal defense of an untrained or marginally-trained person who had earnestly acted in defense of their life but made some error or errors, and are subsequently prosecuted (e.g., fled the scene, called the attacker names in the heat of the moment, fired warning shots or ‘shot to wound’, articulated their use of force poorly, gave honest but lengthy and inaccurate statements, fallen victim to logorrhea, etc., etc., etc.) as well as a highly trained person who screwed up in the aftermath despite their training.

During the LFI JUDF-I class, we all went through a couple of scenarios, then faced a mock grand jury (several actual attorneys and legal professionals guided this process) where they had to answer for their potentially criminal actions.

I was struck at how very judgmental many of the rest of the students/mock grand jurors were. Some seemed to expect absolute perfection in the self-defensive actions of the person facing mock indictment. I don’t think they were coached to be that way, but am not certain. It really made me afraid of what non-gun people might expect. And these weren’t just gun people, but highly educated gun people, in the big scheme of things. But maybe it was just a case of them being very attached to the tactical/legal/human dynamics under stress concepts and ideas we were all excited about knowing and learning.

Although the person in this story did most of the big things right (amazingly), I think a lot of people defending themselves don’t do everything right, and the firearms community should do what we can to support and defend people who earnestly and basically correctly defend themselves, but may not speak the King’s English of self-defense like many of us have paid copious amounts of time, effort, and money to be able to do. The inadvisability of this photo might be a small example of that kind of thing.

So I simultaneously share the distaste for the photo, distaste for macho posturing photos, and want to support people who defend themselves legitimately, but imperfectly.

[Ed L]

Two things to keep in mind:

1. This was a 18 year old women from a small town in Oklahoma. It doesn't sound like she had any background when it comes to the defensive use of guns, the aftermath of the defensive use of guns, or dealing with the media. So it is not surprising that she might not portray herself well by the standards of people who studied guns and legal aftermaths.

2. The ill-named Truth Abut Guns blog makes their blog available to post articles by people who don't know wtf they are talking about. The fact that they ran an article written by the point shooting advocate who believes you should pull the trigger with your middle finger speaks volumes to me. Once you have done this, as far as I am concerned you have zero creibility.

[Ed L]

I was struck at how very judgmental many of the rest of the students/mock grand jurors were. Some seemed to expect absolute perfection in the self-defensive actions of the person facing mock indictment. I don’t think they were coached to be that way, but am not certain. It really made me afraid of what non-gun people might expect. And these weren’t just gun people, but highly educated gun people, in the big scheme of things. But maybe it was just a case of them being very attached to the tactical/legal/human dynamics under stress concepts and ideas we were all excited about knowing and learning.

I suspect that there is a wierd roleplaying dynamic taking place where people were overplaying their roles based on the horror stories that they read from Ayoob about court. They were in a sense trying to become that horror story as part of their roleplaying--especially considering it was an AYoob course and the attendees were likely familiar with his writing.

[SLG]

This is not something we should be arguing about, since I know we all firmly support her actions. I didn't mean to come across as too critical, I was just pointing out that her decision making ability should not be held to our standard, given several mitigating circumstances.

[mnealtx]

They say a picture is worth a thousand words so is this "macho posturing" ?

I'm thinking.... this (http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2001/09/47102?currentPage=all) sums up the young lady's grit and determination pretty well.

[fixer]

Perhaps I'm a bit out of the mainstream, but I can't help myself:

It's not "macho posturing". Would I pose for the pic? Probably not...but I'm probably a little better prepared for such an event than the 18 year old young woman who was just set upon by a couple of violent scumbags.

We live in a world populated by some truly violent scumsuckers who will take innocent life literally because they think it's good sport. When one of these violent scumbags catches a face full of buckshot and is sent to cold oblivion before he can rape or kill a vulnerable young woman, it's a net win for society.

The idea that good, decent, law-abiding people should be sitting in the fetal position blowing snot bubbles over the fate of some knife-wielding thug who got blown away after spending a bunch of time trying to bust through the door of that woman's home is infuriating and morally repugnant. That young lady is probably very calm because she did the right thing. Those guys insisted on threatening her and her child. They had abundant opportunities to knock off their obnoxious behavior and go be productive citizens, but instead they decided to press an attack on what they thought was easy prey. Turns out she wasn't easy prey and when they had backed her into a corner she fought back and one of the bad guys got to experience bleeding out on her carpet instead of her. Occupational hazard of being a ******* scumbag.

Screw him.

We're not talking about someone who was out looking for trouble and trying to fulfill some retarded Charles Bronson fantasy here, folks...we're talking about a young woman who was in her own house taking care of her child when a couple of dope heads showed up to rob her because they read an obituary and figured she'd have drugs. Think about the level of moral depravity it takes to look at the story of a man who died of cancer, notice that he's survived by only his young widow and small child, and then to figure it's a great score. That's genuine sociopath territory.

She has every right to be calm and confident because by every moral and legal tradition that's worth anything she did the right thing. She used lethal force only after those jackasses took every other alternative off the table with their actions. They insisted on somebody getting hurt that night.

It's possible for a good, decent, moral human being left with no choice in the matter to shoot somebody and afterwards have no more negative emotional impact about it than they would have for stepping on a cockroach. The last thing they need is for people to run around hand-wringing about why they aren't at least attempting to look like they're barely holding it together in the aftermath, especially if they've never been anywhere near that situation for themselves. She didn't pull that trigger for fun. She pulled the trigger because in that instant she was certain that she was out of options and it was either shoot or die screaming at the end of that knife.

Should she have posed for the picture? It's not what I would have advised her to do, but I'm not there. It sounds to me like she's largely on her own and is trying to deal with a media frenzy that she didn't ask for. It's absurd for gun rights advocates to try and put her on a pedestal she never asked to be on and then get all pissed off if she doesn't do every tiny thing exactly according to the script that is supposedly good for "gun rights" in their mind. If they weren't willing to fly out to her place and run interference with news producers who are looking for visuals to go with the story so they can get ratings, then they should hush.

There's nothing "disquieting" about the image of a woman who is willing to kill somebody if they insist on threatening her or her child. It's deeply disquieting to see people who claim to be 2nd amendment advocates getting weak in the knees when a law abiding gun owner does precisely what she was supposed to do and doesn't look to be worse for the wear because of it.

Outstanding post...thanks!

[TCinVA]

In response to TGS:



I guess pictures of people pointing guns at the camera seem to annoy me. Kinda like emulating Dirty Harry or something.


There's quite a big separation between this young woman doing something that likely some news moron instructed her to do and trying to look like Dirty Harry.

The one thing they have in common is lots of people were sick and tired of watching bad guys get away with stuff only to be released to do yet more while innocent people just kept being victims. That type of person is likely to love a movie about a police officer who shoots Scorpio and is likely to find it great when a vulnerable young victim prevails over those who would have done her harm.



don't think anyone is defending him.


One need not outright "defend" him to act or speak as if everyone is a precious snowflake and then act or speak as if it's somehow tragic that an individual like this one caught a load of buckshot. It's tragic in the grand sense of the overall condition of man. It's thoroughly unfortunate that there are some people who decide to prey on others, but that's life. Because it's life we should expect that the individuals who make those choices are likely to get themselves killed by somebody they intended to harm and not get ourselves too worked up about it when it happens.

Yes, I realize there are some people who think everything we say and do should be governed by the light of how the special snowflake theorists see the world, but I argue that doing so is ridiculous. You cannot be reasonable and win over someone who insists on believing a fantasy. Thus hand-wringing among people who claim to be advocates for the 2nd amendment in an instance where it performed exactly as intended is silly. Doing so won't make the anti-gun people see us as reasonable or make them rethink their position on leaving everyone helpless in the face of dopeheads like the two losers in this story. It won't make the message that occasionally good guys need to kill bad guys any more palatable to the type of individual that insists on putting a tribute to Cho on a makeshift tribute to the victims of Virginia Tech. They are a lost cause because they have decided to be.



I'd like for you to point out who is getting "weak in the knees" about this, or comparing her to a Charles Bronson fantasy. I can't find it.


The yahoo who finds a picture of a woman with a shotgun so "disqueiting" that he/she/whoever has to spill a bunch of electrons fretting about how bad it looks. Newsflash: The only people who could possibly believe the image of a woman holding a shotgun while on hold with 911 for twenty minutes in an attempt to defend her life looks somehow menacing or barbaric are the snowflake simpletons.

...and they're too stupid to care about.


I suspect that there is a wierd roleplaying dynamic taking place where people were overplaying their roles based on the horror stories that they read from Ayoob about court. They were in a sense trying to become that horror story as part of their roleplaying--especially considering it was an AYoob course and the attendees were likely familiar with his writing.

There's also such a thing as people with enough knowledge to be dangerous becoming hyper-critical of a situation they don't fully understand. "What he should have done was..." I've seen it time after time when various news reports or video get posted online there's invariably a group of people who are armed with just enough knowledge to be dangerous who go to ridiculous lengths in being critical just as a means of showing how smart and sophisticated they are.

I can't comment on Ayoob's roleplayers because I have no idea how that setup works, not having ever participated in it. I've seen it happen often enough in blogs and on forums, however, to have some suspicions that at least some of it may be at work in that blog post.

Looking over the sights at a situation is very different than looking at it on a computer screen. If we forget that, we drift into absurdity.

[G60]

Anybody wanna get really pissed off?

Requisite liberal "Celebrating this is awful" drivel.
http://www.politicususa.com/en/media-circus-around-the-make-my-day-mom-ignores-a-tough-decision

You'll love this gem: "The federal courts, in accordance with Supreme Court precedents, have consistently held that there is no individual right to own a gun. In Morton Grove, Illinois, the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled, “possession of handguns by individuals is not part of the right to keep and bear arms.”"


Complete with everything-I-know-about-guns-I-learned-from-hollywood "she should have just shot him in the hand or knee" comment.

[fuse]

Pretty sure jack bauer couldn't shoot someone in the hand and only in the hand with buckshot

[TCinVA]

Pretty sure jack bauer couldn't shoot someone in the hand and only in the hand with buckshot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G1ApUEXcbo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G1ApUEXcbo&feature=player_embedded)

[TGS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G1ApUEXcbo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G1ApUEXcbo&feature=player_embedded)

Fantastic video, TC. Thanks.