Current Production Sigs 226

[JV_]

What's the status on the current production Sigs? Are there still issues, if so - what are they? I stumbled across a:

226
Short Trigger
Short Reset Kit
E2 Grips

Anyone have a newer production Sig with 10K rounds through it?

[98z28]

I am curious as well. Been feeling the Sig itch of late, but I haven't heard anything good in a while.

My old department (~300 sworn) traded in their well worn Sigs (late-1980's through mid-1990's models) for new ones just over a year ago. I talked to the head FI about three months ago, and he was less than pleased. I recall him mentioning a few broken take down levers and more failures to feed and extract than he was comfortable with. I doubt those are the only problems they were having, but it is all I recall. They traded in a mix of P225's, P226's (9mm), P229's (40), and P220's for newer, railed versions of each (minus the P225). I'll see if I can get an update on how Sig handled the issues.

There is still a small crop of new production, German built guns available. Not sure if the QC is any better on the German guns or not. There is some Internet chatter that it is, but it is just that, chatter. I haven't seen anything to back up the claim that the current German built guns get more TLC, but it could be true. I am tempted to snag one, drop an SRT in it and find out. :cool:

Bud's Gun Shop has the German made, milled slide with E2 grips and standard trigger for $717: SIG E26R9BGER 226 9M GERMAN MADE (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/28/products_id/77738/Handguns/SIG+Sauer/SIG%20E26R9BGER%20226%209M%20GERMAN%20MADE%20BL/)

Top Gun Supply has the German made, stamped slide with the "old style" grips and night sights for $899: E26R-9-BSS-GER (http://www.topgunsupply.com/sig-sauer-p226r-9mm-carbon-slide.html)

[Odin Bravo One]

I don't know about "current production". I have not had or seen any of the issues complained about over the internet with any Sig's. I have received new Sig's each year of the last three, and have not had any issues. All of those have seen well over 10k, and my personal Sig is well past 20k.

[GJM]

As someone with little Sig experience I have a question -- while I understand that it is the Indian and not the arrow, if not issued one, but given a choice, why would someone choose a DA/SA Sig as their primary handgun?

[Lon]

As someone with little Sig experience I have a question -- while I understand that it is the Indian and not the arrow, if not issued one, but given a choice, why would someone choose a DA/SA Sig as their primary handgun?

Some are ignorant, some hate "plastic" framed pistols, some fear change, some like it cause it has a long heavy trigger pull like the wheel guns they traded in.

My agency went from revolvers to Sigs in the 90s. We still have Sigs cause our Chief, who was a patrol sgt. when they switched, came back from some conference and told us he was buying us new Sigs to replace our older non-light railed versions. If it aint broke, dont fix it, right? He is known not to like Glocks. We had no input. I'm hoping that next time, he asks for input and we can go with a Striker fired weapon of some sort.

Having said all that, our 2003 era 226/229s have not given us any problems whatsoever. I can't think of any broken parts at all. My only complaint is the damn pins that hold the firing pin in gets pressed in at the factory and we literally CANNOT get some of them out. We even bought a press just for that task, and still no joy.

[DocGKR]

Several agencies in this area have experienced significant problems and parts failures at low round counts when replacing 20-25 y/o Sigs with new pistols in the past few years. I suspect SeanM's organization gets the best QC possible on their pistols...

[JV_]

Thanks for the feedback.


why would someone choose a DA/SA Sig as their primary handgun?I don't view the 1 type of trigger pull (LEM/DAK/Glock/M&P) to be vastly superior to DA/SA (for me). There is a lot to be said for the very smooth, non stacking, trigger pull of a DA gun. As someone who AIWBs, I also appreciate a fully uncocked gun. And as a side item, I wish my HK P30 adventure was with a DA/SA gun rather than LEM! I often think the outcome would have been different.

I have a harder time shooting a gun with multiple steps in the pull, like a stock/crunchy M&P, than a DA/SA gun. Maybe it's because I started shooting on a DA/SA, and my first formal instruction was with a DA/SA, but I really like them (renewed appreciation). It's kind of an interesting story, but ToddG was my first handgun instructor - back in 1999/2000. This is long before Pistol-Training.com was around, back in the day of calibers-l and beretta-l, and he was working at the NRA Range.

And just for clarity, I'm not saying that I'm switching from my Gen4 19, but I'm always looking to add guns to my collection - especially nice ones.

[ToddG]

It's kind of an interesting story, but ToddG was my first handgun instructor - back in 1999/2000.

Which goes to show how small a world it is, because I didn't even remember that until JV mentioned it a while back. :cool:

Until something happens to improve, my position on current production SIGs is pretty simple: it will probably be fine, but compromises in quality and QC reduce the gun from its once "you can trust it blindly out of the box" status. If I wanted one, I'd get one, but with the knowledge that (a) it may have problems and need repair before it works well, and (b) it may have substandard parts that will break not quickly but within 5-10k rounds. I can live with (a) because let's face it, that's true of any gun. The (b) is harder to swallow.

[UTfoiler]

I have a newer Sig 226. Purchased new in 2008 in .40. I have not had any problems with it. I have put 6000 rounds through it so far. It did not come with the E2 grips, short trigger or SRT. I have since added all of those to it. I have really like the new E2 grips. My hands were not that big, and now the gun fits nicely. I really like the short reset trigger, very easy to get follow up shots. The DA/SA takes little to get used too, but I am better with the DA pull. The only thing that I did not like was the front strap. I have added a piece of grip tape to the front strap and now I don't feel the gun move much at all.

I just purchased a .357 sig barrel for it and have been shooting that a little bit now. The only thing that I had to change was the barrel, I use the same mags and slide.

[LittleLebowski]

Which goes to show how small a world it is, because I didn't even remember that until JV mentioned it a while back. :cool:

Until something happens to improve, my position on current production SIGs is pretty simple: it will probably be fine, but compromises in quality and QC reduce the gun from its once "you can trust it blindly out of the box" status. If I wanted one, I'd get one, but with the knowledge that (a) it may have problems and need repair before it works well, and (b) it may have substandard parts that will break not quickly but within 5-10k rounds. I can live with (a) because let's face it, that's true of any gun. The (b) is harder to swallow.

Like Glock then.

[ToddG]

Like Glock then.

The first issue very much like Glock... it will be quite a while before anyone with a brain assumes a new production Glock (especially 9mm) can be trusted right out of the box.

But low quality parts breaking at moderate round counts? I'm not seeing that.

[LittleLebowski]

The first issue very much like Glock... it will be quite a while before anyone with a brain assumes a new production Glock (especially 9mm) can be trusted right out of the box.

But low quality parts breaking at moderate round counts? I'm not seeing that.

Truf. I make joke mostly.

[NEPAKevin]

Apparently, the powers that be at SIG feel it is better to focus resources on advertising:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPT70rzaT9w

[ToddG]

OK, but that was still funny. That's Adam Painchaud, they're new director of training (he's been with SIG for years, just newly promoted).

A little crappy that they chose to use another brand's holster instead of the SERPA-wannabe they sell themselves, though, to "demonstrate" a gun falling out of the holster.

I'm always amazed to see SIG embracing the "SEAL Gun" thing after the hellacious trouble they gave Dale McClellan and me trying to bring the original NSWxxxx guns to market. Of course, those guns were sold to raise a $100,000 donation for the Special Operations Warrior Foundation, whereas subsequent Navy/SEAL/Mk25 guns are not.

[JV_]

(b) it may have substandard parts that will break not quickly but within 5-10k rounds.With the price tags attached to their new guns, I'm unwilling to go there.

I guess I'll pass.

[98z28]

Does anyone know if the German built guns get better parts and/or better QC?

[NEPAKevin]

FWIW, I felt that the original run of Navy 226's were more along the lines of of a potential collectable as well as a donation to a worthy charity where as the MK25 will most likely be the sidearm of choice for range posers and gun shop commandos. Collectable? ...not so much.

[John Hearne]

I'm not a huge Sig fan afte seeing too many broken parts. With that said, if the P226 is in 9mm it's probably fine. The 9mm places the least stress on the system of any other popular defensive caliber. If it's in 40 or 357, I'd make sure I replaced the takedown lever with the heavy duty model and keep my fingers crossed.

[JAD]

The discussion is interesting because it seems like some techniques work best with a 'rolling' trigger like the M&P and Glock (can) have, but I kind of prefer metal pistols. If SIG's not to be trusted, who makes a reliable metal service pistol with a rolling trigger?

[Odin Bravo One]

So forgiving/forgetting the terrible off-gassing part from that commercial.........WTF is a Mk25?

[F-Trooper05]

So forgiving/forgetting the terrible off-gassing part from that commercial.........WTF is a Mk25?

http://www.sigsauer.com/MK25/

[JDM]

I really want a 226. About 15 years old.

[LittleLebowski]

Literally nothing Sig does nowadays surprises me.

[ToddG]

WTF is a Mk25?

You're not cleared for that. Sorry.

:p

[SteveK]

Bathtub-ready 226. Mr. Bubble not included.

[fixer]

Bathtub-ready 226. Mr. Bubble not included.

lmao.

[Lon]

http://www.sigsauer.com/MK25/

All you gotta do is rename something MK whatever or MOD thisandthat and you'll sell a butt load of product cuz, "hey, the military has it, so I better buy one as well.". Gun mouth breather sales tactic 101.

[Wes Peart]

All you gotta do is rename something MK whatever or MOD thisandthat and you'll sell a butt load of product cuz, "hey, the military has it, so I better buy one as well.". Gun mouth breather sales tactic 101.

I'm guessing it's pretty much identical to the P226 Navy they've been making for a while. I seem to remember something about Sig getting permission to make the original 226 Navy under the condition they donated to the Wounded Warrior Project a little for each gun sold. They did that for a while and then basically decided "screw them" and continued to make and sell the gun that was supposed to be limited without donating a damn thing. While conveniently dropping the features that made the Navy model special to save money.. Anybody remember the full story on that?

[LittleLebowski]

JV, how about an older 226 and adding the E2 grips?

[joshs]

JV, how about an older 226 and adding the E2 grips?

Or, if you just want a TDA pistol with a good trigger, why not get a P30V3 and send it to GrayGuns?

[JV_]

Or, if you just want a TDA pistol with a good trigger, why not get a P30V3 and send it to GrayGuns?I often wish my P30 adventure was with a v3.

I'm not actively looking for one to buy, I just stumbled across a used one and was considering it. I ended up passing.

[TGS]

Or, if you just want a TDA pistol with a good trigger, why not get a P30V3 and send it to GrayGuns?

I just got my P2000 back from GGI last week. More PPQ'ish in SA than it is like a SIG. A nice SIG can feel like a Swiss watch, like it's a glass rod breaking....this GGI worked P2000 feels nothing of the sort. I still think SIG has a better DA/SA than my GGI worked P2000. I've only put 150 rounds and some dry-fire time through it, hopefully this week I'll be able to get in some more objective performance evals and report something meaningful. I've thought about using a SIG 228 or Beretta 92 Compact instead of my P2000 because their triggers are so damn nice....but I seem to do okay with the P2000 anyways.

About the P226:

In 9mm, has anyone ever felt sloppy front sight tracking with it compared to the 228, 229 or 239? I've shot 3 226's in 9mm and the recoil impulse felt too slow, leading to front sight tracking "sloppiness" and slower splits compared the lighter weight/smaller P's.

[TGS]

There is a lot to be said for the very smooth, non stacking, trigger pull of a DA gun.

I thought I was crazy for noticing this at first. I mentioned it to Todd at dinner after one of our classes and he confirmed my notions and let me know several of his students have felt the same. I actually considered switching my P2000 to DAO, non-LEM just to get this benefit, but figured it'd be suckage for follow-up shots since I can exploit the DA with a press-out, mitigating the longness and heaviness of the pull; not so much when sending a 2nd round downrange as part of a hammered pair. Also, it's more fun to have two separate trigger pulls. :)

Still, whenever I pull a shot, it's usually in SA.

[fuse]

About the P226:

In 9mm, has anyone ever felt sloppy front sight tracking with it compared to the 228, 229 or 239? I've shot 3 226's in 9mm and the recoil impulse felt too slow, leading to front sight tracking "sloppiness" and slower splits compared the lighter weight/smaller P's.

Felt the same when I shot my 92F last week. Compared to my normal Glocks, I mean.

[TGS]

Felt the same when I shot my 92F last week. Compared to my normal Glocks, I mean.

Really? Huh.

Just goes to show how subjective this stuff can be. I always thought a 92 recoil impulse/feeling was quite sharp, especially for it's size and weight. Comparable to my P2000, I'd danger.

Compared to your normal glocks? What about your unnormal glocks? :D

[DonovanM]

In 9mm, has anyone ever felt sloppy front sight tracking with it compared to the 228, 229 or 239? I've shot 3 226's in 9mm and the recoil impulse felt too slow, leading to front sight tracking "sloppiness" and slower splits compared the lighter weight/smaller P's.

I've had the same experience while shooting one of my P226's alongside a G34. The G34 felt snappier and more violent where the SIG felt softer and more relaxed. There was a definite difference between the two and I know where you're coming from. In stock form, it's a heavy gun with heavy springs. It's a good 10oz up on a Glock.

I've never had a problem with a slow recoil impulse though. I watched some of my shooting vids in slow motion, and the gun cycles and is back on target in .03-.04 of a second roundabout. I remember thinking it was taking me an eternity to pull the trigger again, and I was blazing along.

Slower splits... Sloppy front sight tracking... I dunno. I have no problems with the sight return characteristics of my SIG for practical shooting purposes, but I've been shooting this gun and only this gun for the last 2 years, and I'm accustomed to it. In my opinion I can squirt bullets out of it as fast as I have the right to expect. No problems there. I don't have any hard numbers for you, check the videos I've posted in the match video thread to see what I'm talking about.

On an unrelated note, I shot a 6" 40S&W 2011 Limited gun today. That thing was soft and snappy. I sat there pulling the trigger as fast as I could and 18/20 of my rounds ended up in the A-zone of a USPSA target at 10 yards. Wicked.

[98z28]

Does anyone know if the German built guns get better parts and/or better QC?

Hate to bump this thread as I think it has run its course, but I am unable to edit and wanted to add this info in case anyone else is as clueless as I am on current production German built Sigs (apparently they are in the same boat as the US version):

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1327-New-Sig

Shame.

[JV_]

After 3 months and 8,201 rounds my 226 is going strong.

It's been 6183 rounds since my short reset issue has been officially fixed.

It's been through 2 classes, Rogers and AFHS.

I had one FTRTB at Rogers this past weekend, my frame rails were a bit dry. The gun was just past 2000 rounds since it was cleaned/lubed. I use Lubriplate, and it seems to work well, but it works best when it's applied on top of a coat of oil (thinned). TW25B would be perfect, but it's expensive.

Other than that, it's been uneventful. I'm going to order a DAK sear spring to see how that lightens the SA pull.

[ToddG]

While I'm horrible about cleaning, I do try to keep my guns lubricated. FWIW I was talking to Ken Hackathorn on Friday and he said he finds that to be much more necessary on metal framed pistols than polymer.

[TGS]

While I'm horrible about cleaning, I do try to keep my guns lubricated. FWIW I was talking to Ken Hackathorn on Friday and he said he finds that to be much more necessary on metal framed pistols than polymer.

The lubricating or the cleaning?

[ToddG]

Lubrication.

[Carraway]

Interesting discussion. I'm not sure how current it is, but I bought a "Certified Pre-Owned" 9mm Sig 226 on Friday. I didn't go in with the intention of buying a used pistol, or even a Sig, but it felt the best to me of those I handled. So far I've fired about 250 rounds with it and am pretty impressed, especially as I'm adjusting to it.

If anyone's curious, I'm not well versed in all things Sig, but the frame is marked "Germany" and it does not have an accessory rail.

For reference, I compared it to a new 226 Enhanced Elite, a Gen 3 and Gen 4 Glock 17, and a CZ 75 D compact. I've spent some time with a Sig 220, but I'm mainly used to shooting S&Ws, including a 5946 (great), Model 10 revolver (also great) and a Sigma (currently needs a new extractor).