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View Full Version : NoVA KSTG Match at the NRA Range: 31-Jan-2012



ToddG
01-04-2012, 02:24 PM
KSTG (http://pistol-forum.com/kstg) match
Tuesday 31-Jan-2012
$25
50-60 rounds anticipated

Squads begin at 5pm, 6pm, 7pm, 8pm, and 9pm. Six people maximum per squad.

You can call the NRA Range at 703-267-1402 to reserve a slot beginning at 9am on Monday 9-January.

LittleLebowski
01-04-2012, 02:26 PM
Thank you.

ToddG
01-04-2012, 02:28 PM
Thank you.

Don't thank me, thank the NRA!

da6dspanburg
01-04-2012, 02:58 PM
I'm going to try and stop by as a spectator.

da6d

MDS
01-04-2012, 04:28 PM
Sweet, great timing. I'll likely be there. (Of course, my favorite thing about this game is the 1-hour duration - never mind that I have to travel 1000 miles to get there. ;))

LittleLebowski
01-04-2012, 05:13 PM
Sweet, great timing. I'll likely be there. (Of course, my favorite thing about this game is the 1-hour duration - never mind that I have to travel 1000 miles to get there. ;))

If you need any gear, let me know.

lindertw
01-04-2012, 06:45 PM
nice - time to dust off the gear and shoot this one...

JV_
01-04-2012, 06:47 PM
nice - time to dust off the gear and shoot this one...Great!

ToddG
01-04-2012, 10:07 PM
Glad to hear you guys will make it!

Just a repeat for those who missed it, signups begin Monday at 9am. There are only 30 slots, and only six available for each hour. If you cannot get in, there is nothing any of us can do about it. As the guys who were there last month can tell you, we're on the ragged edge just getting everyone through in an hour.

However, if you call before Monday at 9am, you won't be able to sign up. So set your alarm early on Monday and get the speed dial programmed... :cool:

MDS
01-04-2012, 11:50 PM
However, if you call before Monday at 9am, you won't be able to sign up. So set your alarm early on Monday and get the speed dial programmed... :cool:

I predict a lucrative market in the speculative resale of kstg slots...

lindertw
01-05-2012, 06:50 AM
hijack

...in need of a lefty G19 OWB holster for this match; anyone have a loaner? A buddy that shoots cowboy action matches wants to try out KSTG. I'm loaning him my pistol/mags/mag carrier(s), but I don't have any lefty holsters.

Thanks for the help!

/hijack

Kevin B.
01-05-2012, 08:29 AM
hijack

...in need of a lefty G19 OWB holster for this match; anyone have a loaner? A buddy that shoots cowboy action matches wants to try out KSTG. I'm loaning him my pistol/mags/mag carrier(s), but I don't have any lefty holsters.

Thanks for the help!

/hijack

I may. I will check.

Matt O
01-05-2012, 09:12 AM
KSTG match
Tuesday 31-Jan-2012

Bah, I have somehow managed to be out of town for this...again. :mad:

fuse
01-05-2012, 09:38 AM
hijack

...in need of a lefty G19 OWB holster for this match; anyone have a loaner? A buddy that shoots cowboy action matches wants to try out KSTG. I'm loaning him my pistol/mags/mag carrier(s), but I don't have any lefty holsters.

Thanks for the help!

/hijack

Possibly. I will look when I get home.

Edit:

Wait, I do. I have a CCC versa clip. Will work OWB for a lefty. It's a slide type holster.

MikeyC
01-05-2012, 10:05 AM
Woohoo, I'm actually off work for this one.

lindertw
01-05-2012, 07:32 PM
I may. I will check.

thanks for checking - looking forward to what you may have available.


...Wait, I do. I have a CCC versa clip. Will work OWB for a lefty. It's a slide type holster.

thanks fuse; i'm looking at the pic on CCC's store page and still trying to get my head around how it will sit when worn lefty (just want to make sure it wouldn't be reverse cant). I'm tired, and I'm sure it'll make more sense tomorrow!

AznDragon533
01-06-2012, 08:49 PM
Do you think I should still attend if I have very limited experience carrying + range time.

Kevin B.
01-06-2012, 09:46 PM
thanks for checking - looking forward to what you may have available.

PM sent.

fuse
01-06-2012, 10:13 PM
thanks for checking - looking forward to what you may have available.



thanks fuse; i'm looking at the pic on CCC's store page and still trying to get my head around how it will sit when worn lefty (just want to make sure it wouldn't be reverse cant). I'm tired, and I'm sure it'll make more sense tomorrow!

It's straight drop I believe.

ToddG
01-07-2012, 08:47 AM
Do you think I should still attend if I have very limited experience carrying + range time.

I would recommend stopping by to spectate for an hour. Get a feel for the safety rules and the level of proficiency necessary to execute the various tasks on demand under time pressure without violating those safety rules. Then make a determination and consider signing up in February.

Beginning this month, everyone who calls to sign up will be asked if they have previous IDPA/USPSA/similar match experience or formal firearms training that included drawing from a holster. If not, they won't be allowed to sign up for the match. Unfortunately, unlike many outdoor clubs, we do not have an ability to run a safety class or beginner class along with or just before the match.

jc000
01-08-2012, 06:52 PM
As an inexperienced shooter I plan on attending this match as a spectator (I guess hang out in the lounge area?). I'm interested in becoming involved in these types of matches as my proficiency increases and hope that spectating will help give me a better view on where I need improvement.

ToddG
01-09-2012, 12:34 AM
jc000 -- You'll be more than welcome to be on the range. Just bring eye and ear protection, don't handle any firearms on the range, and follow all RO instructions regarding where it's safe to stand, etc.

bdcheung
01-09-2012, 09:50 AM
I'll be there spectating, as well. Looking forward to it!

LittleLebowski
01-09-2012, 09:54 AM
Just got a 6 o'clock slot.

Chris Rhines
01-09-2012, 11:11 AM
I'm in for 8pm.

JConn
01-09-2012, 11:36 AM
I will be shooting at 7:00. looking forward to it guys.

MikeyC
01-09-2012, 04:51 PM
Wow, that filled up FAST! First name on the wait list.

MDS
01-09-2012, 04:54 PM
Gah! It's like winning a radio station contest - just getting through is hard enough. :(

Also on wait list, fingers crossed.

lindertw
01-09-2012, 07:23 PM
6 o'clock slot here, and a huge thanks to Kevin B for the southpaw holster!

Hope my buddy remembered to call in and get a slot ;)

ToddG
01-09-2012, 08:52 PM
We're pretty happy to see that the match filled up in less than eight hours.

We're also pretty happy to have locked in dates for five more matches between February and June. :cool:

orionz06
01-09-2012, 09:01 PM
We're pretty happy to see that the match filled up in less than eight hours.

We're also pretty happy to have locked in dates for five more matches between February and June. :cool:

Any weekends?

ToddG
01-09-2012, 09:06 PM
Any weekends?

No. The only day of the week the range isn't open to the public is Tuesdays, so matches are always Tuesday evenings.

Tinygnat219
01-18-2012, 11:04 AM
Kent (the revolver guy) and I (TJ the 28th Glock 19 guy) will be in the 9 o'clock slot. We'll have 1-2 other people with us as spectators.

The last one was a FUN match. I learned a lot and I am modifying my carry gear a bit (like how I carry spare magazines.

TJ

LittleLebowski
01-18-2012, 11:36 AM
Kent (the revolver guy) and I (TJ the 28th Glock 19 guy) will be in the 9 o'clock slot. We'll have 1-2 other people with us as spectators.

The last one was a FUN match. I learned a lot and I am modifying my carry gear a bit (like how I carry spare magazines.

TJ

Nice to see you here, TJ! I'm locked on for 6PM.

For those not in the know, TJ is co-owner of NoVA Armament (http://www.novaarmament.com/), a gun shop in Herndon. Unlike many gun store workers, he getting out there, and competing.

MEH
01-30-2012, 11:06 AM
The NRA Range is now taking names for slots for the 14FEB2012 KSTG match. They had many slots still open when I left there this morning.

Chris Rhines
01-30-2012, 11:45 AM
Thanks! Still plenty of spots as of 11:30am...

JV_
01-30-2012, 12:34 PM
The 2/14 announcement is now posted:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2940-KSTG-Match-at-the-NRA-Range-14-Feb-2012

Please use the new thread for all comments/discussion relating to the 2/14 match.

MikeyC
01-31-2012, 04:51 PM
Last minute phone call from the NRA giving me a 9:00 spot! I know some people are probably on the line already, but how early should we get there?

JSGlock34
01-31-2012, 10:30 PM
Thanks again for another great match.

JConn
01-31-2012, 10:32 PM
Yeah that was tons of fun. Thank you to everyone who set up, ran the match and tore down. Looking forward to the next one.

ToddG
02-01-2012, 02:02 AM
Results of the 31-Jan 2012 Match:


TrophyNameClassTotalPoints Down High Overall1. Todd GreenMaster35.375 1st B-Class2. James VentreB39.413 1st A-Class3. Vinh TranA42.710 4. Josh Savani(unclassified)45.145 5. Jarrett SchulzB46.347 6. Jason Stephenson(unclassified)51.809 7. Darren LaSorte(unclassified)53.004 1st C-Class8. Tom IvesC54.329 9. Joe ConnersC58.312 10. Eric Brown(unclassified)61.109 11. Andrew MillsB69.316 12. Tom Linderman(unclassified)70.181 1st DA/SA Semiauto13. John Frazer(unclassified) / DA71.4310 1st D-Class14. Rick ChapmanD71.866 15. Matt Dogali(unclassified)76.812 16. Baxter SheppersonB78.702 17. Michael Coleman(unclassified)86.438 18. Recardo AlexanderC87.661 19. Michael HarnageB88.128 20. David Doan(unclassified)96.157 21. Rick Nelson(unclassified)98.192 2nd D-Class22. Josh ReynoldsD100.6817 3rd D-Class23. Bonlyn HawleyD101.374 24. Charlie DoveD101.672 25. John GallagherC103.6413 26. J.J. Dacanay III(unclassified)104.046 27. Joshua WorkD107.449 28. Larry Anding(unclassified)109.254 29. Laura SnyderD109.4614 30. George SnyderD110.6811 31. T.J. ParmeleD / Major111.7616 32. Doug HawleyD / DA122.606 33. Khang LeD / Revo131.294 xx Mike WhitmanDSWS0 xx Chris RhinesASWS0

Complete results can be found at:
http://pistol-forum.com/kstg/KSTG-120131-results.numbers

JV_
02-01-2012, 06:59 AM
Vinh - Nice job on shooting it clean!

LittleLebowski
02-01-2012, 07:14 AM
I am humbled. I need to speed up a bit.

fuse
02-01-2012, 08:11 AM
I am the opposite. Need to slow down somewhat. I bet my down 9 could have easily been cut in half without adding too dramatically to my raw time.

Was a cool match. My goal for next time is to not make any extreme mental errors, and just shoot it like I always shoot. Rather than trying to do shoot differently (faster than I can go) because it's a match.

It was a pleasure watching Vinh. Smooth AND fast. Pretty much textbook.

Tinygnat219
02-01-2012, 08:26 AM
Yeah, 4 Procedurals in the first two events really really hurts your time. So does shooting full power 10MM (Glock 20). Ok, that itch was scratched. Now onto something different.

Still, had a good time and I am glad I was able to make it out. I grabbed the 2nd to last 9PM slot for next time too. Probably going back to a Glock 19, I shot that one much much better.

JConn
02-01-2012, 08:39 AM
I am humbled. I need to speed up a bit.

You and me both man...

bdcheung
02-01-2012, 09:25 AM
It was great watching everyone work through the course! Last night was my first time ever watching shooting sports, and it was pretty fun. Thanks to all for letting me be a wallflower!

LittleLebowski
02-01-2012, 09:45 AM
Anyone get pics of the airplane stage and the "bomb?"

fuse
02-01-2012, 09:48 AM
Totally meant to do that before I left.

LittleLebowski
02-01-2012, 09:51 AM
Nice job getting the results out so fast, Todd. Thank you for all of your work making this happen.

JConn
02-01-2012, 10:50 AM
I was thinking about that stage last night and realized that everyone I saw, including myself, shot the two non bomb wielding bad guys first. Wouldn't that allow bomb guy to destroy the plane? Shouldn't we all have shot him first?

JV_
02-01-2012, 10:54 AM
Shouldn't we all have shot him first?I don't know about tactics, but in the rules it says that they can't dictate a target order.

Because I want to win, I'll pick the fastest order.

Chris Rhines
02-01-2012, 11:03 AM
Because I want to win, I'll pick the fastest order. On this note, I'd be interested to know if it's really faster to start with the easier targets. Some drills I've run suggest that it may be easier to speed up than to slow down, and that you should engage the most difficult target first. On the other hand, from the start position I didn't have a good shot on the center target, but the right target was almost wide open. So I went for that target first, because it was the best one available.

Interesting question.

-C

kle
02-01-2012, 11:05 AM
Air Marshalls would never carry revolvers, much less a J-frame...if they did, they'd definitely shoot the guy with the bomb first - which is what I should have done, then put one in each of the other bad-guys, then reload, and finish the stage.

Thanks to Todd et al for running things, and thanks to the NRA HQ Range for hosting (and cleaning up so efficiently!). I enjoyed myself and definitely improved over last time, even if I did finish DFL. Y'all have fun on the next one!

JV_
02-01-2012, 11:10 AM
from the start position I didn't have a good shot on the center target, but the right target was almost wide open. So I went for that target first, because it was the best one available.That was my logic. I could engage the left and right targets much more easily, and sooner, from the start position; As I advanced forward, it made those final head shots on the index card easier.

JV_
02-01-2012, 11:11 AM
but in the rules it says that they can't dictate a target order.

http://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=365&d=1324962612


4. Engagement order: A stage description cannot require a specific order to
engage targets. All targets are shot as they become visible, keeping in mind Rule
II.B.5.a.i pertaining to proper use of cover.

fuse
02-01-2012, 01:24 PM
Why did you shoot without score, Chris?

Bring the G34 by mistake?

jetfire
02-01-2012, 01:30 PM
re: drawing to high percentage targets vs. low percentage targets in match conditions

If it's a short course with minimal movement, say 6-12 rounds, the importance of a fast first shot is magnified significantly vs. a longer field course where there are other opportunities to pick up time. I know a lot of USPSA shooters always advocate to draw to the highest probability target, but it seems to me a lot of that is morale related. Getting fast, easy hits on your first couple of shots makes you feel good about the stage, whereas drawing to the mini-popper at 15 yards could be frustrating if you don't whack it.

Because of all the time I spend around this site, I spend a lot more practice time drawing to low percentage targets than most of my USPSA shooting friends, which has really changed my stage strategy. It is easier now for me to put the pedal down than to slow down if I'm going fast, so if my starting array is a mini-popper at 10 yards and 3 paper at 5 yards, I'll draw to the popper most of the time. But like I said, that changes depending on the length of the course and some other factors.

Chris Rhines
02-01-2012, 01:38 PM
Why did you shoot without score, Chris?

Bring the G34 by mistake?Brought the G34 on purpose. I'm currently down to that, my STIs (which won't pass muster with the extended magazines,) and a couple of rimfire guns.

I'm going to shoot some GSSF this year, and hopefully win myself a G17 or a G19. Alternately, when my Caracal shows up, I might shoot that. But for now, I've no problem with shooting for fun.

-C

JConn
02-01-2012, 01:41 PM
That was my logic. I could engage the left and right targets much more easily, and sooner, from the start position; As I advanced forward, it made those final head shots on the index card easier.

Well same here, but I'm just thinking out loud.

abu fitna
02-01-2012, 02:08 PM
Ultimately the question of shooting order for that scenario would depend on adversary dynamics that are not well represented in cardboard. The initiator and fusing mechanism for the IED vest would have a lot to do with that choice. A simple deadman handle or clacker would dictate first shot. A different firing chain would be something else entirely. (Not sure about a shot timer initiated IED... grin.... but if one assumed it was an air pressure sensor rather than audio sensor, this might make sense...) If the package was not yet fully assembled (such as is often the case by the smarter variety of adversary who don't wish to mis-time their planned terminal event due to static discharge or similar environmental factors), the requirement is much easier.

This was a very difficult situation. At best one could have hoped to go hot when the adversary was facing the other way, or that the adversary was not prepared for an armed defender reacting to regain the initiative through speed, shock and violence of action. But emotionally unstable adversaries are not always reliable in that sense....

If nothing else though, an interesting problem in a good overall match. Once again, I am amazed by the quality of performance from the folks I was fortunate enough to compete with and observe; and the match staff were as always top notch.

JV_
02-01-2012, 02:10 PM
and hopefully win myself a G17 or a G19.If you change your mind, I have a Glock that you're more than welcome to use.

Just let me know ahead of time ... I'll tweak some stuff just for you!

ToddG
02-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Just to pick on Chris...

Even though his score isn't official, he would have beat me except he got a 5-second procedural. For what? For letting his muzzle extend past cover by a fraction of an inch on one stage. Both Chris and one of the ROs told me that if he'd been shooting a G17 instead of a G34, he wouldn't have got the procedural, his score would have counted, and he would have won the match.

There's a word for that (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony).

I was having user-induced problems with my "helmet" camera so I don't know if I got any video. I did snap a couple of shots of the bomb after the match:

http://pistol-forum.com/gallery/var/albums/dabomb.jpg

JV_
02-01-2012, 02:17 PM
For what? For letting his muzzle extend past cover by a fraction of an inch on one stage. Both Chris and one of the ROs told me that if he'd been shooting a G17 instead of a G34, he wouldn't have got the procedural, his score would have counted, and he would have won the match.I didn't think of it that way, and you're right, he would have been fine.

CuriousG
02-01-2012, 02:20 PM
Wow. I thought I did better than last time but I suppose a procedural does not help matters.

Laura and I had a lot of fun though and it is a learning experience along the way; it is funny was the stress of a competition environment can do to normally simple things (like remembering what we are supposed to do in terms of reload at the end of each stage ...sorry Todd). Thanks again for putting it on - we plan to make it back as often as we can.

jetfire
02-01-2012, 02:22 PM
http://pistol-forum.com/gallery/var/albums/dabomb.jpg

I dare you to drive around NoVA and DC with that in the passenger seat of your car.

ToddG
02-01-2012, 02:30 PM
Wow. I thought I did better than last time but I suppose a procedural does not help matters.

I'd say 75% of the procedurals we're giving out are for use of cover, and most of those are for crowding cover. Maybe I'm sadistic, but to me that says it's a good rule. People need to learn not to do it, and hopefully if folks get enough procedurals they'll ingrain that into their shooting.


(like remembering what we are supposed to do in terms of reload at the end of each stage ...sorry Todd).

That's really just part of the package when shooting a high round count multi-stage match in one hour on an indoor range. If we're going to keep admin handling to a minimum, we need folks to be set up a certain way before each stage. So just listening to the RO and not getting ahead of instructions works best. Unfortunately, standing there listening to someone tell you how to load and holster right after a stage is not a habit most folks have. :cool:


I dare you to drive around NoVA and DC with that in the passenger seat of your car.

We joked about that last night. Heck, even wrapped in a towel in Tom's trunk (not Jones, Ives; the NRA Range Tom) all I could think about was some unlucky speeding ticket that turned into a search. "Officer, I'm just going to lie face down on the pavement with my hands behind my back as I explain to you about the totally honest-to-God fake bomb you're going to see when you open my trunk..."

jetfire
02-01-2012, 02:36 PM
Truth be told, you guys might have gone over the top with the realism on that particular prop. In an awesome way, but yeah, the pucker factor in that traffic stop would be off the chart.

lindertw
02-01-2012, 06:01 PM
Had a great time last night, and that bomb was awesome! Add that thing to the mix in future matches; i.e. if you fail to complete the stage in the PAR time, the bomb goes off and you're assessed penalties for each hostage...

Odin Bravo One
02-01-2012, 07:10 PM
Truth be told, you guys might have gone over the top with the realism on that particular prop. In an awesome way, but yeah, the pucker factor in that traffic stop would be off the chart.

Try going to a Halloween party as a Suicide Bomber, complete with S-VEST, and getting stopped at a random DUI Checkpoint.............

MikeyC
02-01-2012, 07:40 PM
I built a bunch of similar "bombs" for a paintball field some years ago. We were instructed to mark all of them NOT DYNAMITE just in case somebody got pulled over with the props on the way to the field.