Colt Combat Unit 9mm: Review and Initial Impression

[Sensei]

I picked-up this pistol over the weekend. Cost was $1275 + sales tax and my LGS.

17590
It was field stripped and inspected. The pistol comes with a beavertail grip safety, checkered front strap, NM barrel, and Novak night sights. The fit was a bit disappointing in that the grip safety is very loose and rattles with about 0.5 mm of play at the top and 1 mm of play at the bottom. Slide to frame fit is about what I'd expect from a mid-grade 1911 in that its a fairly smooth action with a little looseness when twisted side to side; it's nothing like the solid lock-up on a gun from Wilson, Brown, or SA Custom Shop. The finish is Ionbond which has a reputation for decent durability but most of my experience is with Black T and Wilson Armor-Tuff. The gun is supplied with 2 10-round Colt magazines that do not have baseplates.

The trigger breaks at 5 lbs on my meter with no grit and a decent reset.

I greased the rails and wear points with TW-25B before reassembling the pistol and heading out to the range.

The order of fire on my first trip was as follows:

1) 50 rounds of Federal 147 grain AE
2) 50 rounds of Federal 124 grain subsonic
2) 40 rounds of Spear 147 grain GDHP

Accuracy was very good with the extreme spread of 10 rounds of 147 grain AE at 15 yards measuring 2.6 inches when fired off-hand.

The gun had 1 FTE where the spent casing was oriented horizontally between the barrel hood and slide at approximately round 25 with the AE. There was 1 FTF with the Federal subsonic load. All loads exhibited erratic ejection with a BTF about every magazine. Sometime spent casings would also be thrown forward. One casing, a subsonic load that was the last in the magazine, just barely rolled off the slide.

Next, I performed a 10-8 Extractor Test whereby single rounds are fired without a magazine inserted. The 10-8 protocol calls for 8 round to be fired two handed and 8 more with strong hand only. All rounds should eject between 2 and 5 o'clock.

For those unfamiliar with it, the idea behind this test is the 1911's internal extractor relies on spring tension that is highly variable depending on a number of factors including materials, wear, and the skill/attention of the armor assembling the gun. Failure suggest loose tension and an extractor that is only partially functioning.

This pistol failed spectacularly and would not eject a spent casing when the magazine was removed. I stopped after 3 attempts - all of which resulted in the same horizontal FTE with the round wedged between the barrel and slide.

Bottom line, this sample of 1 is unreliable and exhibits signs of poor extractor tuning. The beavertail safety, while loose, is probably considered to be within spec for a mid-grade production gun. I will be contacting Colt tomorrow to get the extractor fixed, and I'll update the thread once the pistol is back.

[HCM]

It will be awhile. I broke the slide stop pin on my Wiley Clapp Government in August 2016. Sent the gun back the beginning of September, got it back the end of January 2017.

[busykngt]

[QUOTE=Sensei;618929]...the grip safety is very loose and rattles...
--
Yep, proof positive ya have a genuine production COLT 1911! (Least there be any doubt [emoji1])
--
What we need is more unemployed politicians.

[Nephrology]

Bummer. I love the idea of buying a 9mm 1911 but have avoided them so far in favor of plastic handguns whose function I felt I could trust a little more out of the box...

[MK11]

For all the talk of Colt doing its best work in years, the extraction issues seem rampant, particularly in the 9mm models. I really want a stainless Competition model in 9mm and I know some folks on this board are having good luck with them but on the 1911 forum, bad extractors seem to be the norm.

[farscott]

I just fit a Wilson extractor in my 9x19 Competition (same slide as the CCU). A little bit less expensive than shipping the pistol to Colt and a heck of lot faster and easier. http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Extractor-80-Series-38-Super_9mm-Bullet-Proof-Blue/productinfo/415-S80/

[rdtompki]

Bummer. I love the idea of buying a 9mm 1911 but have avoided them so far in favor of plastic handguns whose function I felt I could trust a little more out of the box...
We have at least 80K rounds combined through our two SA 9mm 1911s (used for competition). they have been flawless with only a cracked firing pin stop between the two. The stock triggers are a bit variable (we have several), but I wouldn't hesitate to use one of these for self defense.

[Robinson]

The play in the slide is something I wouldn't worry about too much as it is pretty common with Colts and should not affect accuracy or reliability. I have not personally experienced the sloppy grip safety fit with my guns, but I've read other reports of the same. Since the CCU is one of Colt's flagship models they should be expected to fit the grip safety properly.

The extractor tension issue is aggravating. Should be easy to remedy, but shouldn't require fixing when it leaves the factory.

Good luck and I hope you soon have your CCU functioning 100%. Please keep us updated -- this is a model I have considered purchasing for myself.

[Bill]

I just fit a Wilson extractor in my 9x19 Competition (same slide as the CCU). A little bit less expensive than shipping the pistol to Colt and a heck of lot faster and easier. http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Extractor-80-Series-38-Super_9mm-Bullet-Proof-Blue/productinfo/415-S80/

This is the best solution. Recent Colts have been notorious for shipping with extractors that have zero tension on them whatsoever. My opinion is that it should basically be expected at this point that a new colt will need a little trigger work and extractor tensioning, just like knowing you're gonna have to spring for real sights when you buy a new glock. "Should" it be that way? No, of course not. But what are you expecting by shipping it back to Colt? They're gong to pull a new extractor out of the bin, throw it in, say that its "in spec" and then ship it back to you six months later. There isn't even a custom shop over there anymore that you can request take a look at your gun. The colt extractors are solid in terms of dimension and metallurgy, they just need proper tensioning, you don't even really need to buy a wilson part.

[TAZ]

$1200 plus and you have to replace/retune the extractor. Jesus, I'm getting old cause for that kind of cash I'd expect the thing to function out of the box.

[Sensei]

This is the best solution. Recent Colts have been notorious for shipping with extractors that have zero tension on them whatsoever. My opinion is that it should basically be expected at this point that a new colt will need a little trigger work and extractor tensioning, just like knowing you're gonna have to spring for real sights when you buy a new glock. "Should" it be that way? No, of course not. But what are you expecting by shipping it back to Colt? They're gong to pull a new extractor out of the bin, throw it in, say that its "in spec" and then ship it back to you six months later. There isn't even a custom shop over there anymore that you can request take a look at your gun. The colt extractors are solid in terms of dimension and metallurgy, they just need proper tensioning, you don't even really need to buy a wilson part.

I'll try adjusting it myself first before sending it back. Seems simple enough.

[theJanitor]

Add some tension on the BTGS via the leaf spring. Sometimes that cleans up the rattle. It won't make the fit any better, but it's less annoying

[SSGN_Doc]

$1200 plus and you have to replace/retune the extractor. Jesus, I'm getting old cause for that kind of cash I'd expect the thing to function out of the box.

I know I'm getting old. Old enough to remember when folks would buy a Colt and send it to a gunsmith who was a "1911 guy", to have all of the known potential issues fixed, before they would carry them. Throat, ramp, trigger work, extractor tuning, slide and bushing fitting were almost the norm. Other companies were pushing out wonder nines that would function right out of the box. Colt still hasn't seemed to catch on fully. Other 1911 manufacturers seem to have a better ratio of success out of the box. I fear they are just going to be a name in American industrial history fairly soon. But hey, they are making DA revolvers again...

[Nephrology]

We have at least 80K rounds combined through our two SA 9mm 1911s (used for competition). they have been flawless with only a cracked firing pin stop between the two. The stock triggers are a bit variable (we have several), but I wouldn't hesitate to use one of these for self defense.

The RO family of 9mm springers was what I was looking at. I'll keep that in mind for the future. Thanks!

[Robinson]

Other 1911 manufacturers seem to have a better ratio of success out of the box.

I agree with that statement when it comes to the likes of Wilson Combat and other high-end makers. Compared to their main competitors, I do not think Colt pistols of even fairly recent manufacture are less likely to function properly. At least it has not been my experience. However, I do think Colt should make efforts to improve their QA. They've brought some nice models to market over the past couple years but have not shown an improvement in quality it seems. I do not fault the person who makes the decision to pay a little more and gets into Dan Wesson products for a little more money.

I like all the Colts I currently own, but if I were to start over there is a good chance I would go with Dan Wesson even if it meant one less pistol in my possession due to the cost difference. I would not choose Springfield Armory or Ruger over Colt at this time. Many other makers do not offer enough choices in 9mm to make me interested.

Colt leadership just can't seem to get their act together enough to really raise the bar on quality, with the exception of the Custom Shop which is not currently taking on new requests for builds.

[Sensei]

Bummer. I love the idea of buying a 9mm 1911 but have avoided them so far in favor of plastic handguns whose function I felt I could trust a little more out of the box...

In all honesty, I have a Sig Legion P226 SAO that is every bit as accurate (likely more accurate) and soft shooting as this Colt. People who want a single action 9mm should look hard at that Sig or shoot mine if they live near Piedmont NC.

I got the 9mm CCU because I own a bunch of semi-custom 1911s but not a single Colt. Something about that seemed a bit wrong. Plus, I heard the song of the 1911 calling me back...telling me that the 9mm 1911 was finally ready for prime time.

On the bright side, this extractor issue and Bill's suggestion have spurred me to learn how to do some basic adjustments aside from replacing recoil springs every 5,000 rounds. I've been spoiled by the fact that Wilsons, Browns, and Pros come from the shop running in tip top shape. I sent one of my Pros back to SA Custom shop at 25,000 rounds for a tune up; nothing was wrong with it but it was a gun that I carried a lot back then and didn't want to wait for a part to fail. Other than that, all of my 1911s are all under 20,000 rounds since I now mostly shoot Glocks and Sigs.

If my attempts at fixing the extractor fail, then I'll probably send it to Wilson to get it tuned up rather than sending it to Colt. That way, Wilson can fit a new beaver tail safety and magwell. If I go that route, I'll need to do some research on the best way of matching the Ionbond finish to Wilson's parts.

[Jim Watson]

I think you can bend, maybe file, your extractor into submission.

You may have to be selective on ammo. I am a convert to the integral ramp for calibers other than .45 and even for it in 2011.
My Colt 1991A1 is getting the rather pointy plated Xtreme bullet exclusively. Federal AE factory seems closest, that "subsonic" looks a little blunt on the tip.
My integral ramp Springfield based MixMaster shoots the truncated cones and blunt roundnose. The SA UC has been set up for hollowpoints.

[Sensei]

So, I attempted to adjust the extractor tension according to the procedure outlined in this Wilson Combat YouTube video: https://youtu.be/UOSmJd7HaDY

Before any adjustment the extractor would barely grip a spent casing with light shaking. After 4 trips between the shooting line and work bench I gradually got it to where the extractor would grip an empty casing so that could not be shaken loose with vigorous shaking. However, the extractor would still not pass the 10-8 test due to occasional FTE's, multiple rounds coming back at my face, or even ejecting to the 10 o'clock (WTF?). Moreover, I started having FTF issues when firing from a full mag which suggested that the extractor was too tight.

After 4 attempts and 50-60 wasted rounds I threw my hands up in surrender and called Colt. They are supposedly emailing me a return authorization.

[LockedBreech]

I have about 500 rounds through my 2016-made Colt O1091 right out of the box without issue. This thread has me thinking maybe I got a lil bit lucky.

I paid $750. If I paid $1200 and it was choking I'd be livid.

Have not heard of the 10-8 test, will need to try that.

[JAD]

I think of Colts as good base guns. If I wanted a gun to be awesome enough to carry OOB I'd buy a DW.

I /really/ like a Colt with some love, though.

[SecondsCount]

I think of Colts as good base guns. If I wanted a gun to be awesome enough to carry OOB I'd buy a DW.

I /really/ like a Colt with some love, though.

I agree on the Dan Wesson, all three of mine have functioned fine out of the box. Same with the two Springfields I have owned.

After owning a few Colts, and shooting/troubleshooting a few others, I will never understand the pass that they get because there is a pony stamped on the slide. I would buy a Kimber and have it throated before buying a Colt.

[Robinson]

I have about 500 rounds through my 2016-made Colt O1091 right out of the box without issue. This thread has me thinking maybe I got a lil bit lucky.

It's not just luck -- my Colts have overall been very good. I had one out of my current four Colt pistols that went back to the factory for a FTE issue and came back fixed. The rest have been reliable since day one.

[Robinson]

So, I attempted to adjust the extractor tension according to the procedure outlined in this Wilson Combat YouTube video: https://youtu.be/UOSmJd7HaDY

Before any adjustment the extractor would barely grip a spent casing with light shaking. After 4 trips between the shooting line and work bench I gradually got it to where the extractor would grip an empty casing so that could not be shaken loose with vigorous shaking. However, the extractor would still not pass the 10-8 test due to occasional FTE's, multiple rounds coming back at my face, or even ejecting to the 10 o'clock (WTF?). Moreover, I started having FTF issues when firing from a full mag which suggested that the extractor was too tight.

After 4 attempts and 50-60 wasted rounds I threw my hands up in surrender and called Colt. They are supposedly emailing me a return authorization.

Man that really stinks. There is no excuse for it either -- it should work with all typical 9mm ammunition right out of the box. Good luck and I hope you get the issues resolved.

[Clobbersaurus]

Sensei, did you happen to get a photo of the extractor? I'm a little curious to see it. Your experience sounds very similar to my experience with a $300 Norinco 9MM. When I pulled the extractor after the 10-8 test I noticed it had a 45 extractor in the gun.

I ended up buying an Aftec extractor for it but that caused over tensioning on the case and I had the same issues you had.

[Jay Cunningham]

My ejector bent on my CCU 9mm on round 601 to the point where it locked up the gun and I had to send it back to Colt.

[Robinson]

My ejector bent on my CCU 9mm on round 601 to the point where it locked up the gun and I had to send it back to Colt.

Are you using ETMs?

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?26379-Wilson-Combat-1911-Magazine-Sale&p=618689&viewfull=1#post618689

[Jay Cunningham]

Yes...

[EVP]

I got some advice from someone to use a 45 commander ejector. It works better and it is less prone to bending if fired without a mag.

I am not a 1911 guy so I could not tell you how to find the optimal ejector and such.

[Amp]

I sent my 9mm Competition Model back to Colt to fix the bent ejector and they had it back to me within 4 weeks counting shipping time. They paid shipping both ways and repaired it under warranty even after I told them I bent it using Wilson ETM magazines.

The new ejector is shorter and appears to be a .38 Super ejector. The ETM mags barely touched the ejector when you pushed up on them after seating so I relieved under the ejector slightly so there would be clearance. The top round does not make contact on the side of the new ejector like it did on the original. The gun throws all the empties out at 3-4 o'clock.

Very happy with Colt's customer service.

[Robinson]

In a separate thread (linked in #26 above) I described my latest findings with using the 9mm ETMs. The small profile aluminum basepads prevent the top round from impacting the ejector -- at least in my guns.

It seems replacing the ejector with the .38 Super version has become Colt's standard fix for this issue.

[Sensei]

Sensei, did you happen to get a photo of the extractor? I'm a little curious to see it. Your experience sounds very similar to my experience with a $300 Norinco 9MM. When I pulled the extractor after the 10-8 test I noticed it had a 45 extractor in the gun.

I ended up buying an Aftec extractor for it but that caused over tensioning on the case and I had the same issues you had.

That possibility had crossed my mind. Here is mine:

17619
17620

[1986s4]

In a separate thread (linked in #26 above) I described my latest findings with using the 9mm ETMs. The small profile aluminum basepads prevent the top round from impacting the ejector -- at least in my guns.

It seems replacing the ejector with the .38 Super version has become Colt's standard fix for this issue.

So all this made me curious about my Colt .38 super. The ejector in my super is stock and the pistol was bought new in late 2012. It in no way comes close to my Wilson ETM's or Tripp magazines when inserted. The extractor passes the tension test with empty cases and Azoom aluminum dummy rounds.

[Clobbersaurus]

That possibility had crossed my mind. Here is mine:


Thanks for the pic. Looks like they have the right one in there. I hope they fix the issue for you.

[45dotACP]

This thread oddly makes me want a Sig 226 SAO...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Sensei]

It's on its way back to Colt...

[TheNewbie]

This thread oddly makes me want a Sig 226 SAO...

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It oddly makes me want a Colt 1911 in .45. Something may (probably is) wrong with me.

[45dotACP]

I'm a fairly huge fan of the 5" 1911 as a .45 launcher and the Commander as a 9mm launcher. A government model 9mm is stupid easy to shoot due to light recoil.

But that light recoil comes at a cost...you need enough ass to cycle the slide. You need to consider the weight of the recoil springs, but also the mainspring.

I highly recommend the Weigand extractor tension gauge sets. Having a defined number>having a cartridge hold up when you wiggle the slide or whatever.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Greg]

I think every 1911 owner needs to know how to dress and tweak an extractor. With that being said, the way you tune extractors varies per caliber.

I've (so far) stuck with the 45s. A man's got to know his limitations.

[1986s4]

This thread oddly makes me want a Sig 226 SAO...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I had one, loved it but due to some hard times had to sell it. Accurate and reliable but it took some getting used to the blocky slide on top. Another reason to like it was that the safety prevented my thumb from acting on the slide catch to hold it down and thus not lock open the slide after the last shot.
I have a pre-b CZ 75 converted to SAO that is also quite nice.

[Sensei]

It will be awhile. I broke the slide stop pin on my Wiley Clapp Government in August 2016. Sent the gun back the beginning of September, got it back the end of January 2017.

The RMA that Colt sent said to allow 7-10 days for them to evaluate the pistol. Today was the 10th day so I called their customer service number for an update. The rep said that it is not even showing as accepted in their system yet. It supposedly takes a couple weeks to log packages as received with the 4th Holiday, and I'm supposed to call back in a couple of weeks. Fortunately, I saved the tracking number...signed by J Santos...:roll eyes:

[Robinson]

The wait times for Colt service are absurd. When I sent a 1991 because of an ejection problem a while back the only way I got things moving was by sending a PM to Brent Turchi since he still worked there then.

Colt needs to ask themselves exactly what they are doing to keep people loyal to them beyond the brand name. They have introduced some good models in the past couple years plus they have several pistols available in 9mm. I've been lucky and my Colts have worked just fine for the most part. But there are too many stories like the one in this thread. They bring good products to market with input from legit SMEs, widen their product line, but then continue to have inconsistent QA. It's a shame.

[SecondsCount]

I'm not completely anti-union but that is one thing that is part of the problem at Colt, and has been for a long time.

[OlongJohnson]

This thread oddly makes me want a Sig 226 SAO...

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Sig P220 Super Match for a grand is right here. (https://www.cdnnsports.com/sig-sauer-p220-45acp-super-match-full-size.html#.WWRM6ITyuJA)

Pretty sure it's over on 1911forum where a guy who's had all the usual suspects in higher-end 1911s says his Super Match is better than most of them.

[Kram]

It's on its way back to Colt...


Any updates? Bumping this up as I have been eyeing a 9mm 1911 and really like the CCU.

[Sensei]

Any updates? Bumping this up as I have been eyeing a 9mm 1911 and really like the CCU.

I called for an update 2 weeks ago and was told mid-September at the earliest.

At this point, I cannot recommend any Colt products and I say that having more than a few 6920s from back in the day. They simply do not appear to have the capacity to warranty their guns in a reasonable timeframe which I define as under 6 weeks. My suggestion is to take a long hard look at the Dan Wesson Specialist for about $300 more than the CCU if you really want an solid 9mm 1911 for under $2K. I shot a DW 9mm a few months ago and was impressed - reliable and well put together at a reasonable cost. After that, Wilson Combat makes some of the best production 9mm 1911s on the market that are out of the box flawless...for about $1500 more than a CCU.

[Kram]

I called for an update 2 weeks ago and was told mid-September at the earliest.

At this point, I cannot recommend any Colt products and I say that having more than a few 6920s from back in the day. They simply do not appear to have the capacity to warranty their guns in a reasonable timeframe which I define as under 6 weeks. My suggestion is to take a long hard look at the Dan Wesson Specialist for about $300 more than the CCU if you really want an solid 9mm 1911 for under $2K. I shot a DW 9mm a few months ago and was impressed - reliable and well put together at a reasonable cost. After that, Wilson Combat makes some of the best production 9mm 1911s on the market that are out of the box flawless...for about $1500 more than a CCU.

Thanks for the info. That's really disappointing but isn't the first I have heard or read about Colt's customer service. Please keep us posted on the gun when you get it back and how it runs.

[boing]

Colt's is the only company I know of that's been "finally turning the corner on quality" for as long as I've been shooting: "They had their problems in the past, but they're really making great guns now..." I've been hearing that for 20 years, but they never seem to actually get around the corner and get where they're supposedly going.

The effect of all the corporate shenanigans and bankruptcy and doom on the horizon for so long has to be palpable in that place. I sure wouldn't want to work there. If I had north of a thousand bucks on the table, I wouldn't feel particularly sympathetic, but I already learned that lesson years ago. I can afford to be gracious now.

[Robinson]

Well Colt is making a lot of really good guns -- I have several that run just fine -- but they are sending too many out the door with problems. That, coupled with slow customer service for warranty work makes it hard to recommend Colt without reservations. I think they have the capability to up their quality and produce guns at the same level as Dan Wesson, but they would have to charge similar prices. Then everyone would bitch about the cost increases and not buy the guns.

So buying a new Colt is a bit of a gamble. You will probably get a good gun that works, but there's a chance you won't. Then getting it fixed will be painful. Not a good scenario. I'm glad mine work.

[MK11]

I recently acquired a new Colt Competition with the understanding that the extractor might need work. That indeed is the case but it also comes with a sloppy, cheap feeling thumb safety with a lot of overtravel and a grip safety that rattles like a sack full of maracas. My 1997 Kimber is put together so much better that it's a shame to see what's happened to both companies.

[Sensei]

I called Colt today for an update. The gun is supposedly headed to the range for test fire.

[EMC]

I called Colt today for an update. The gun is supposedly headed to the range for test fire.Any updates on your colt?

[Sensei]

Any updates on your colt?

Yes.

It’s still waiting to be test fired at the range...for the past 6 weeks...

I will never buy or recommend another Colt product - ever.

[AJD21]

I’ve owned more Colt handguns than any other brand and would love for them to be a leader in quality and design today. Unfortunately that won’t happen and I currently own none and won’t own any more again. Too much headaches and heartache just to have the name Colt on my gun. I’m speaking about their handguns.

[Kram]

Yes.

It’s still waiting to be test fired at the range...for the past 6 weeks...

I will never buy or recommend another Colt product - ever.

I saw this thread pop back up and was thinking wow it's about time he received it back before clicking. Can't believe your still waiting. I wonder if this is just pistol related as I know of a few guys who sent rifles back and all had them fixed and back within a few weeks.

Please continue to keep us posted.

[Sensei]

I saw this thread pop back up and was thinking wow it's about time he received it back before clicking. Can't believe your still waiting. I wonder if this is just pistol related as I know of a few guys who sent rifles back and all had them fixed and back within a few weeks.

Please continue to keep us posted.

My statistically insignificant N of 3 6920s and 1 1911 suggests that Colt’s production pistol line is not built to the same standard as their production rifles.

[Crawls]

I plan on buying a 1911 this spring. The Colt Wiley Clapp Govt was on the top of my list until I read this thread. I can understand a bad sample that gets through the QC process. For a customer's firearm to wait weeks to get looked at let alone fixed though, is absurd. With my $hit magnet luck, I know I'd end up in the same boat. Sense, I hope you get your CCU back soon.

[Robinson]

The way the warranty repair department works now is no way to run a business, that's for sure.

Most of the guns Colt turns out work fine (in my experience), but they let too many out the door that don't. And then people end up waiting absurd lengths of time to get their problems fixed.

[FrankB]

I plan on buying a 1911 this spring. The Colt Wiley Clapp Govt was on the top of my list until I read this thread. I can understand a bad sample that gets through the QC process. For a customer's firearm to wait weeks to get looked at let alone fixed though, is absurd. With my $hit magnet luck, I know I'd end up in the same boat. Sense, I hope you get your CCU back soon.

I bought a Colt WC Commander .45 a few months ago, along with a Lightweight Commander .45, and they’ve run perfectly. I did buy them in person so maybe that helped. Neither had the rattling that some people report, and they’re both dead accurate at 25 yards. I do carry them, but the Wiley Clapp gets carried most often. I have Ruger 1911’s in 9mm and .45ACP, in both Commander and 5” sizes. My wife is able to get an occasional FTE with the 9mm, but that’s limp wristing. My SA Range Officer in 9mm is impeccably tight, but doesn’t get used very often. The target rear sight kind of annoys me.

https://youtu.be/lobEHb6BOdI

[Bill]

The list of gun companies that are dead to me just keeps growing! Colt (QC and Customer Service attrocious, disgraceful product lineup), Sig (P320 debacle, amongst others) and Springfield (Political Judases). The good news is, for every one of these that makes the list, five more promising, quality companies step forward! Dan Wesson, Aero, Hudson, Midwest, Modern Outfitters etc. . .

[Robinson]

Colt (QC and Customer Service attrocious, disgraceful product lineup)

I agree re: the QC and customer service but why do you consider Colt's product lineup atrocious?

Also for the sake of full disclosure I've had very good luck with the quality of the Colts I've bought in the last several years. I fully realize others are not so lucky.

[45dotACP]

I've been much more impressed with the Springfield 1911s I've handled than the Colts.

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[Bill]

The lineup is still about 20 years behind. The combat unit and competition are steps in the right direction, but compare that lineup to the Springer lineup and you see the shortcomings. Plus the rifle offerings are way behind the times. Mlok? Keymod? Low Profile gas block stuff? Overall the guns are made from quality materials but poorly fit (thumb and grip safeties are across the board terrible), poorly finished (compared to their competition), and lacking features that have become standard at even lower pricepoints.

[Bill]

I mean, nearly the entire line up of special combat's don't even have front strap checkering, with an msrp of over $2k. . .

[Robinson]

I mean, nearly the entire line up of special combat's don't even have front strap checkering, with an msrp of over $2k. . .

Recent manufacture Special Combat Governments do have front strap checkering. As to your other comments, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[Bill]

Recent manufacture Special Combat Governments do have front strap checkering. As to your other comments, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Yeah, the special edition ones that were another $500 and came in a pelican case. . . and came out of a custom shop that doesn't exist at the moment. Less gun than a DW Valor which is $1k cheaper. . .

[Robinson]

Yeah, the special edition ones that were another $500 and came in a pelican case. . . and came out of a custom shop that doesn't exist at the moment. Less gun than a DW Valor which is $1k cheaper. . .

No. Current production Special Combat Government models have checkered front straps. Look, you don't like Colt -- that's fine. They have some problems to be sure.

[BigT]

I was standing in the custom shop less than a month ago. Seemed to exist to me.


And and the SCG's we've seen had checkered front straps.

[Bill]

I was standing in the custom shop less than a month ago. Seemed to exist to me.


And and the SCG's we've seen had checkered front straps.

Was it staffed and operating? My understanding was Brent and his staff were downsized a ways back and the custom shop was mothballed. . . My apologies if I am misinformed!

[HCM]

Was it staffed and operating? My understanding was Brent and his staff were downsized a ways back and the custom shop was mothballed. . . My apologies if I am misinformed!

My understanding is the Colt Custom shop was downsized but not eliminated. They are still producing guns like the SCG but they are no longer taking most individual custom work.

Apparently SA has similarly curtailed their custom shop.

[Wake27]

Apparently SA has similarly curtailed their custom shop.

They definitely have. Their price list on the site has very few options of custom work that can be done. Real bummer.

[Kram]

They definitely have. Their price list on the site has very few options of custom work that can be done. Real bummer.

I was disappointed to see that with the SACS. The work they did was excellent and one of the best kept secrets in the business.

[Robinson]

My understanding is the Colt Custom shop was downsized but not eliminated. They are still producing guns like the SCG but they are no longer taking most individual custom work.

Yep, Colt did suspend custom work for a period of time. They are now taking on work again but with a more limited list of custom services -- mostly packages I think. I would still expect the wait to be long.

[Sensei]

I called Colt for an update today after calling them last Wednesday and being told that it was unclear where my pistol was in the process and a supervisor would call me back (never happened). Anyway, they never could get it to run and attributed the problem to an out of spec J-cut. So, the slide is being replaced and the gun is getting their updated ejector. It is scheduled to be test fired today and shipped back by next week if it passes.

[Robinson]

Man, after your ordeal I really hope it's right when you get it back.

[Sensei]

Gun arrived back from Colt today. The slide and ejector were replaced. I hope to test fire it this weekend.

[Balisong]

Gun arrived back from Colt today. The slide and ejector were replaced. I hope to test fire it this weekend.

And just a shade under a decade too, nice.

Hope it works for you, looking forward to the report

[Kram]

Gun arrived back from Colt today. The slide and ejector were replaced. I hope to test fire it this weekend.

Glad to hear it finally came back. Looking forward to your impressions.

[Sensei]

First day at the range since the gun got back from Colt. A total of 50 rounds of 124 grain AE and 50 rounds of 147 grain HST were on the menu. First up was a 10-round extractor test. The gun choked on the last round that was fired strong hand. Since it was the last round, I cycled 5 more rounds strong hand only without problem. The remaining 35 rounds of the AE were used for FAST drills and cycled fine through both factory and Vickiers ETMs.

Next came the 50 rounds of HST. There were 2 FTFS; one with a Vickers and one with a factory mag.

I don’t know. This gun is accurate enough but I’m about done with it.

[Kevin B.]

What weight recoil spring are you running?

[CWM11B]

Disappointing to hear, but your experience will save me some headache. I've been getting the itch for a 9mm 1911, and this one was on the list as a potential. The more I research 1911s in that caliber, the less inclined I am to pursue it.

[Sensei]

What weight recoil spring are you running?

It’s the original factory spring. I’m not sure what the weight is but the 9mm CCU uses a single spring rather than the dual spring system in the 45 ACP.

[Kevin B.]

Sample of one, but a few weeks back I shot JHC 's Sams-customized 9mm Combat Operator and encountered sporadic FTF issues throughout, usually remedied by a good whack on the back of the slide. By way of thanks, I ordered him a set of variable recoil springs from Wolff.

I know he has shot it with both the 13# and 14# springs with good results. Perhaps he will share his experience.

I do not know what weight Colt uses but it is something to consider.

ETA: I believe ToddG settled on a 14# variable to get his 9mm 1911 to function reliably.

[Sensei]

Sample of one, but a few weeks back I shot JHC 's Sams-customized 9mm Combat Operator and encountered sporadic FTF issues throughout, usually remedied by a good whack on the back of the slide. By way of thanks, I ordered him a set of variable recoil springs from Wolff.

I know he has shot it with both the 13# and 14# springs with good results. Perhaps he will share his experience.

I do not know what weight Colt uses but it is something to consider.

ETA: I believe ToddG settled on a 14# variable to get his 9mm 1911 to function reliably.

https://www.gunsprings.com/COLT/1911%20GOV'T%20PISTOL/cID1/mID1/dID1

According to Wolff’s Website, Colt uses a 14lb spring in 9mm and 38Super. It was not listed in the manual. I may play with the weight a little or try some 124 grain +P GDHPs to see if I can get her running. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Robinson]

First day at the range since the gun got back from Colt. A total of 50 rounds of 124 grain AE and 50 rounds of 147 grain HST were on the menu. First up was a 10-round extractor test. The gun choked on the last round that was fired strong hand. Since it was the last round, I cycled 5 more rounds strong hand only without problem. The remaining 35 rounds of the AE were used for FAST drills and cycled fine through both factory and Vickiers ETMs.

Next came the 50 rounds of HST. There were 2 FTFS; one with a Vickers and one with a factory mag.

I don’t know. This gun is accurate enough but I’m about done with it.

Good God, that sucks. That gun should run great with HSTs -- those are my carry ammo. I MEAN WHAT THE HELL?!

I feel lucky that I've been so fortunate with Colt 9mms. I sincerely wish your pistol would be as good as mine are out of the box.

[Robinson]

It’s the original factory spring. I’m not sure what the weight is but the 9mm CCU uses a single spring rather than the dual spring system in the 45 ACP.

Colt's 9mm pistols that use the dual recoil spring are a little over-sprung in my opinion. I think the ideal spring weight for a Colt Government model 9mm is 10#. The dual recoil spring works great in the .45s but is just overkill in the 9mm guns.

[Sensei]

Colt's 9mm pistols that use the dual recoil spring are a little over-sprung in my opinion. I think the ideal spring weight for a Colt Government model 9mm is 10#. The dual recoil spring works great in the .45s but is just overkill in the 9mm guns.

I was mistaken in my earlier post - it is the dual recoil spring assembly in the gun. Specifically, it’s a dual spring with a red painted base. The rounds appear to be hitting the feed ramp and the malfunction is as Kevin B described - a swift tap to the back of the slide chambers the round:

21725

I’m ordering a Wolff variety pack to see if that helps.

[LittleLebowski]

No idea how I missed this thread from one of my favorite members of the community. Going to read the whole thing.

[JHC]

Sample of one, but a few weeks back I shot JHC 's Sams-customized 9mm Combat Operator and encountered sporadic FTF issues throughout, usually remedied by a good whack on the back of the slide. By way of thanks, I ordered him a set of variable recoil springs from Wolff.

I know he has shot it with both the 13# and 14# springs with good results. Perhaps he will share his experience.

I do not know what weight Colt uses but it is something to consider.

ETA: I believe ToddG settled on a 14# variable to get his 9mm 1911 to function reliably.


I started at the top of the scale. The 14# and 13# ran pretty well but stifled the ejection down to the range of 10-20 INCHES of total distance to my right. I did get about 2 FTE per 100 rounds fired with each.

Now I'm a couple outings out - 275 rounds total with the 11#. That looks pretty nice so far. Ejection distance is about 6-7 feet to my right which seems reasonable.

Friday (first time out with the 11# near the end of 175 rounds total, I ran into 4 FTF/FTE one right after another with my magazine #5. I was almost out of ammo but no issues with two other mags for the remaining 20 or so. But too little to be conclusive.

This morning I started with suspect magazine number 5 and got a FTF on the first shot. I set it aside and shot the rest of the 100 with the other mags with no further issues. So the 11# is feeling pretty good so far.

For a frame of reference, I asked SA customer service what weight the OEM spring was for the 5" 9mm and they told me its 9#.

[Sensei]

I started at the top of the scale. The 14# and 13# ran pretty well but stifled the ejection down to the range of 10-20 INCHES of total distance to my right. I did get about 2 FTE per 100 rounds fired with each...I asked SA customer service what weight the OEM spring was for the 5" 9mm and they told me its 9#.

Muchas gracias.

[BigT]

Considering that both my .40 2011's run fantastically with 12lb springs and 180 pf ammo, a 14lb spring strikes me as pretty heavy for a 5' 9mm

[Greg]

I've yet to dip my toes into 9mm 1911 waters, but I've seen some respected 'smiths recommend ditching the dual spring setup for a 10 pound single spring.

[Robinson]

I've yet to dip my toes into 9mm 1911 waters, but I've seen some respected 'smiths recommend ditching the dual spring setup for a 10 pound single spring.

It's probably sound advice for the 9mm guns. The dual springs work great in the .45s.

And for 9mm Commanders I would probably recommend a 12# spring.

[Sensei]

I’m going to get a variety of recoil springs between 10-16 lbs and see if one does better with my heavier loads (I normally run 147 grain HST). I was just waiting to see if there was going to be some deals this weekend or see if I could combine it with other items to save a few bucks on shipping. I appreciate everyone’s feedback and suggestions. I’ll update the thread when I have more data points in a couple of weeks.

[StraitR]

IMO, Bill Wilson and crew have put in considerable effort when it comes to 1911's, and their evolution. If Bill doesn't build and put dual recoil springs in govt model 9mm 1911's, there's a good chance he's tried and found something better. While nobody builds the perfect mousetrap, and every "1911" is different, the parts and pieces from Wilsons are a sound choice when it comes to reference and quality.

[Sensei]

I'm thinking of sending it off to Wilson for some customization. Here is what I'm considering so far:
1) Deluxe trigger job
2) Custom fit beavertail safety (factory safety rattles like an Eastern Diamondback)
3) Tighten slide to frame fit
4) One piece magazine well
5) Flush cut / reverse crown existing barrel
6) Complete reliability package

I'm a little undecided on the barrel and finish and I welcome opinions. The factory match barrel seems excellent and I'd rather not swap it now unless there is a consensus that Wilson's barrel is significantly superior. The existing Ionbond finish is also pretty reasonable but it might need another finish after the work; let me know what you guys think.

[farscott]

The Colt barrels are VERY good. I would suggest fitting a new barrel bushing instead of a new barrel. A well-fit bushing will make the pistol more consistent, and that change is often the biggest bang for the buck. I have full-house guns from John Harrison where I used the Colt barrel that outshoot one of John's guns that I have with a Bar-Sto barrel. I much rather have a Colt barrel than a Wilson barrel, especially the newer 416R barrels. The older Wilson 17-4 PH barrels were pretty good. If I was to have a new barrel fit, it would be a Kart. Kart barrels are made from carbon steel, provide exceptional accuracy, and swell instead of bursting with a barrel obstruction.

I would not tighten the slide-to-frame fit as that is very little incremental improvement compared to a well fit barrel and barrel bushing. It also can cause a cracked slide.

I would avoid any changes that require a refinishing as IonBond is both a very good protective finish and an expensive finish.

[ranger]

I will be interested in hearing lessons learned on the 1911 9mm. I am having a failure to extract every 100 rounds or so. I have tried multiple extractors. I need to mark my mags and see if it is a specific mag. I also have a 1911 recoil spring calibration pack and I need to experiment there. I have a 12# spring now.

[farscott]

Something I have learned is that 9x19 1911s are always operating at the margin due to the shorter round with its lessened recoil impulse. This is especially true on the five-inch pistols. I was taught to select the recoil spring by where the gun was throwing empties rather than by a set spring rate. The goal is to have a recoil spring that puts the brass about four to five feet away, not dribbling out of the ejection port and not throwing them across the range.

As for extractors, if you have not done so, please check whether the extractor is clocking in the slide. If so, the firing pin stop may need to be swapped for one that more tightly fixes the rear of the extractor in place. Failures to extract are not usually magazine related; they usually are related to the extractor claw losing its grip on the case or rotating in the slide channel. I have also had the experience of having the wrong extractor (.45 in a 9x19) in the gun, but that is not likely the case. Other things to check are whether the cases slide cleanly from the chamber and if the ejector is moving from having a magazine strike it.

[Robinson]

I agree 100% with the advice given by farscott. Colt barrels are excellent, so I personally would not swap that out. Plus slide to frame fit is not typically a factor in the accuracy of a 1911 so unless it simply bothers you there's not a lot to be gained from tightening it up.

One thing I've been experimenting with lately in my 9mm guns is the Wilson Combat flat wire recoil spring. I have them installed on two of my Colts and like them a lot so far.

With your CCU the reliability package is probably a good idea, though it's a shame the gun needs it.

[45dotACP]

Is the barrel exhibiting problems? My Colt Commander had a fairly terrible barrel with overcut lower lugs and a crappy bushing fit.

Ultimately I bought an Ed Brown and was happy.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Sensei]

Is the barrel exhibiting problems? My Colt Commander had a fairly terrible barrel with overcut lower lugs and a crappy bushing fit.

Ultimately I bought an Ed Brown and was happy.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

No issues with the factory barrel. That is why I’m inclined to stick with the factory barrel unless someone has a compelling reason to replace it that I’ve not considered.

[Sensei]

The gun got back from Wilson yesterday. Sadly, it will likely go back. It was testfired as follows:

The ammo was 200 rounds of Federal 147 grain AE and 50 rounds of 147 grain HST.

Initially, I used 2 Wilson ETMs 500-9B. These two mags could not make it past 6-8 rounds without a failure to feed where a round was pinned between the barrel rim and breechface with the round below it stovepiping in the magazine tube. I only fired 30 rounds of the AE between these 2 magazines and abandoned further testing with them due to the frequency of the malfunctions.

I also had 2 Vickers ETM mags which were much better but still not up to standards. These mags only had 2 FTFs (without the stovepiping) over the remaining 170 rounds of AE and 1 FTF with the 50 rounds of HST.

For what it’s worth, the gun passed a 16-round extractor test.

[StraitR]

Maybe try experimenting with other mag flavors prior to sending it back. This is not the first I've heard of 9mm Colts disliking Wilson mags.

[Sensei]

Maybe try experimenting with other mag flavors prior to sending it back. This is not the first I've heard of 9mm Colts disliking Wilson mags.

I have considered that. However, I have a Wilson CQB Elite (no rail) being built and my plan was to have both of these guns designed around the same parts and especially the magazines - hence my decision to send it to Wilson. That is to say, Wilson has a reputation for cracking the code to a ultra-reliable 9mm 1911 and much of that is attributed to their magazines being critical to the recipe. I’d MUCH rather not have these two guns running different mags. So much so that I’m more than willing to part ways with it to get another railed CQB Elite...provide the one sans rail actually lives up to its reputation.

[StraitR]

Makes sense to me.

[Robinson]

The gun got back from Wilson yesterday. Sadly, it will likely go back. It was testfired as follows:

The ammo was 200 rounds of Federal 147 grain AE and 50 rounds of 147 grain HST.

Initially, I used 2 Wilson ETMs 500-9B. These two mags could not make it past 6-8 rounds without a failure to feed where a round was pinned between the barrel rim and breechface with the round below it stovepiping in the magazine tube. I only fired 30 rounds of the AE between these 2 magazines and abandoned further testing with them due to the frequency of the malfunctions.

I also had 2 Vickers ETM mags which were much better but still not up to standards. These mags only had 2 FTFs (without the stovepiping) over the remaining 170 rounds of AE and 1 FTF with the 50 rounds of HST.

For what it’s worth, the gun passed a 16-round extractor test.

Man it's a shame the amount of trouble you've had with that gun. I hope you get it worked out -- it must be frustrating as hell.

For what it's worth my Colts love the Wilson ETM mags.

[Wake27]

Too bad you can’t burn it down and collect insurance money on that thing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sensei]

Here are two pictures of the FTF from different angles:

30041
30042

Of note, the round is pinned between the lower parts of the barrel and breechface. The rim as yet to encounter the extractor, so I do not think that it’s an issue of extractor tension.

It is also easily cleared by slingshotting the slide.

[JSGlock34]

I have several cases of the AE 147 grain, and it's among my favorite practice ammunition, but I'm not certain it is the best round for a 9mm 1911, even a Wilson Combat. I'm not sure if the flat nose bullet profile and overall length makes it more susceptible to that kind of hang up. I'd consider giving some 115 or 124 grain ammunition with a more traditional round nose a try and see if the problems continue.

[Jim Watson]

I am sorry to report that my Colt 1991A1, tuned by a gunsmith less renowned than Wilson, is very picky as to ammo and magazines.
Mine gets only rather pointed FMJ or plated from Tripp or CMC XP (now extinct since Wilson takeover of CMC) magazines. It is a very fine IDPA ESP but lacking confidence in hollowpoints, nothing I would use for duty or defense.

Blunt roundnose, flatpoint, truncated cone, and most JHP stub out against the barrel ramp as you show. Ogival hollowpoints like 9BP and plain vanilla RP will SEEM to do ok, but I have not shot enough to be confident. And why bother? I have a load that it does fine with at matches, I can use Something Else for serious social purposes.

My Springfields with integral ramp barrel are more forgiving, although it still took some work to convert the integral ramps into feed ramps. I assume Wilson knows how.
This would be a very expensive addition to your Colt.

I think I would try some different magazines. The Metalform 9x9 "Front Ramp" works well in my guns, although reviews are spotty. The Metalform 9x.38 Super with round follower is a surprisingly good 9mm magazine.

Different ammo is worth testing. As above, I just found something that works in my Colt and have stuck with it.

[45dotACP]

I have had very little success with hollow points and the 9x9 integral ramped 9mm 1911 mags. Failed to feed every HP I've tried from Hornady Critical Duty (my preference) to HST to Gold Dot.

For whatever reason the ten round mags worked fine. I haven't tried the Wilson mags...I'd suggest probably just getting another Wilson if you want a duty grade reliable 1911 in 9mm...otherwise...there are better platforms for the 9.

For the .45 ACP, the 1911 can be made exceedingly reliable.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Sensei]

I’m going to give the Tripp Research mags a try and experiment with ammo. Updates to come in a couple of weeks.

[Robinson]

For the .45 ACP, the 1911 can be made exceedingly reliable.


It can be for the 9mm too. Colt just needs to be much more consistent with their QC. I've been fortunate with my Colts, it sucks that others have not.

I examined a couple of new offerings from Colt recently -- the new Custom Competition and the new Combat Elite and they were both fitted very nicely. But time will tell how they perform in the hands of shooters. I expect the Custom Competition to perform well given its cost, materials, and hand fitting, but we'll see.

[Sensei]

Two Tripp Cobra mags and one Dawson mag arrived today. I headed to the range with:
25 rounds of 147 grain AE
50 rounds 124 grain Winchester NATO
100 rounds 115 grain Federal target
50 rounds 147 grain HST

75% of the rounds were fired with the 2 Tripp Research Cobra mags without malfunction including 40 rounds of the HST. The Dawson mag had 1 FTF with the HST (only 10 rounds fired).

IÂ’m starting to feel much better about this gun when paired with Dawson mags.

[Sensei]

Edit the above post - I’m feeling better with the TRIPP RESEARCH MAGAZINES. I’ve ordered 4 more and testing will continue.

[1986s4]

I agree 100% with the advice given by farscott. Colt barrels are excellent, so I personally would not swap that out. Plus slide to frame fit is not typically a factor in the accuracy of a 1911 so unless it simply bothers you there's not a lot to be gained from tightening it up.

One thing I've been experimenting with lately in my 9mm guns is the Wilson Combat flat wire recoil spring. I have them installed on two of my Colts and like them a lot so far.

With your CCU the reliability package is probably a good idea, though it's a shame the gun needs it.

I've been using the Wilson FW springs for over a year now and like them a lot in my Colt .38 Super Auto. I've come to the conclusion that my pistol needs a combination of enough closing force from the spring and enough recoil from the round for very reliable operation. For that I'm using a #15 for ammo in the 1200fps/124 gr. range. For lesser power factor I use a #13 FW spring. My mainspring is the full power factory unit.
Mine is well broken in, usually wet and dirty.

[Robinson]

I've been using the Wilson FW springs for over a year now and like them a lot in my Colt .38 Super Auto. I've come to the conclusion that my pistol needs a combination of enough closing force from the spring and enough recoil from the round for very reliable operation. For that I'm using a #15 for ammo in the 1200fps/124 gr. range. For lesser power factor I use a #13 FW spring. My mainspring is the full power factory unit.
Mine is well broken in, usually wet and dirty.

An update to my previous post -- I now have the Wilson Combat Chrome Silicon recoil springs installed on a couple pistols and they are working fine as well. These are more traditional but WC claims longer life than typical steel recoil springs.

[Sensei]

Here are some pictures of the Wilson upgrades (trigger job, reliability package, extractor, ejector, recoil spring package, hammer, beaver tail safety, thumb safety, barrel cut, and magwell).

30519
30520
30521

[Robinson]

Man that looks super nice! I really like that grip safety. And everything else.

[JAD]

I have that grip safety on a pistol. I like it a lot. I guess a Brown with its tail reduced and reshaped is a little nicer, but for a box stock part the Wilson unit is awesome.

[Wake27]

SACS put a BP magwell, thumb safety, and grip safety on my CRG, all of which feel awesome. I wish it was in 9mm, but at least it runs well.

[Sensei]

This gun now has about 800 rounds through it since coming back from Wilson. The first 200 were pretty rocky due to frequent FTF with 147 grain HST and AE using ETM mags. This was partially improved with Tripp Cobra mags. Last night I removed the shock buffer and 12lb flat wire recoil spring in favor of a standard guide rod and Wolff 14lb spring. The idea is to get more forward slide inertia to prevent those FTFs (bullet nose almost in the chamber). The gun cycled 50 rounds of 124 grain AE and 100 rounds of 147 grain HST without issue. That makes me happy.

[1986s4]

This gun now has about 800 rounds through it since coming back from Wilson. The first 200 were pretty rocky due to frequent FTF with 147 grain HST and AE using ETM mags. This was partially improved with Tripp Cobra mags. Last night I removed the shock buffer and 12lb flat wire recoil spring in favor of a standard guide rod and Wolff 14lb spring. The idea is to get more forward slide inertia to prevent those FTFs (bullet nose almost in the chamber). The gun cycled 50 rounds of 124 grain AE and 100 rounds of 147 grain HST without issue. That makes me happy.

Glad to hear that it's working better! My super works best with jacketed ammo that isn't loaded down to bunny fart levels. I like the Tripp mags the best but the Wilson .38 super mags work too. You'll learn a lot during a 2000 round test.

[Sensei]

50 rounds of 124 AE and 50 rounds of 147 HST using Cobra mags today. There was 1 FTF with the HST.

[SecondsCount]

Two of the three 9mm 1911s that I have owned did not like 124 HST, never tried 147. They all ran 124 and 124+P Gold Dots like it was ball. A friend gave me a big ziploc bag full of the mixed Gold Dots, that his guys had turned in, and we shot a half dozen mags of it through them one afternoon and had zero failures.

[SirDrinksAlot]

Just picked up a CCU CCO in 9mm and put 250 rounds through it.

10x FTE on last round
4x FTF: 3 while slow firing and 1 when rapid firing.

Ejected 2/10 rounds during the 10-8 extractor test using two hands, didn't try single hand.

When cleaning I noticed the extractor was super loose and not able to even hold an empty shell casing, put some extra tension on the extractor and will test again tomorrow.

I think the extraction errors may be solved, if not i'll replace it with a WC Extractor, and I think the FTF may be contributed to the dual recoil spring. Have some normal recoil springs on order from Wolf.

Amazingly all the issues I had were with the federal 115 gr, and had zero FTF or FTE with 147gr golden sabers.

[45dotACP]

Just picked up a CCU CCO in 9mm and put 250 rounds through it.

10x FTE on last round
4x FTF: 3 while slow firing and 1 when rapid firing.

Ejected 2/10 rounds during the 10-8 extractor test using two hands, didn't try single hand.

When cleaning I noticed the extractor was super loose and not able to even hold an empty shell casing, put some extra tension on the extractor and will test again tomorrow.

I think the extraction errors may be solved, if not i'll replace it with a WC Extractor, and I think the FTF may be contributed to the dual recoil spring. Have some normal recoil springs on order from Wolf.

Amazingly all the issues I had were with the federal 115 gr, and had zero FTF or FTE with 147gr golden sabers.

I'm not terribly surprised. The Colts tend to be pretty oversprung, which you can get away with in a Commander but probably not a government model. Probably the cause of your FTF. The FTEs I'd almost certainly lay at the feet of your extractor, whether a failure in tension or deflection.

Sent from my moto g(6) using Tapatalk

[Sensei]

50 rounds of 124 grain AE without issue using a mixture of Tripp Cobra and Wilson Vickers mags. However, the wheels fell off when I switched to 50 rounds of 147 grain Gold Dot. There were FTF x 4 across all types of mags.

[Sensei]

Time to resurrect this thread. 50 more rounds of 147 grain HST using Wilson ETM, Vickers, and Dan Wesson mags. About half the rounds were fully loaded mags shot under a timer at a 6-plate rack from 10 yards. The other 25 were mags loaded with 3-rounds so that had to reload to take the rack. No failures. It seems to be doing OK with this 14lb Wolff spring and Wilson mags. The only issue now is that some of the Vickers mags are not dropping free. They eject 1/2 way and then must be stripped. The ETM mags drop fine.

So, the gun seems to be running OK so far with 147 grain HST and a 14lb recoil spring. The 147 gr GDHP were a no-go.

[thatguybryan]

Time to resurrect this thread. 50 more rounds of 147 grain HST using Wilson ETM, Vickers, and Dan Wesson mags. About half the rounds were fully loaded mags shot under a timer at a 6-plate rack from 10 yards. The other 25 were mags loaded with 3-rounds so that had to reload to take the rack. No failures. It seems to be doing OK with this 14lb Wolff spring and Wilson mags. The only issue now is that some of the Vickers mags are not dropping free. They eject 1/2 way and then must be stripped. The ETM mags drop fine.

So, the gun seems to be running OK so far with 147 grain HST and a 14lb recoil spring. The 147 gr GDHP were a no-go.

Thanks for the revival—very interested to see how this plays out. I’ve been looking at a combat unit in .45 myself

With regard to reliability issues since going to Wilson, would Wilson warranty their work since you’re still having issues?

[Sensei]

Thanks for the revival—very interested to see how this plays out. I’ve been looking at a combat unit in .45 myself

With regard to reliability issues since going to Wilson, would Wilson warranty their work since you’re still having issues?

Wilson warranties their work to run with high quality ball, Hornady Critical Duty/Defense, and their mags. They do not have the ability to test guns with Gold Dot or HST ammo, and I’ve not tried any Hornary ammo in it since I run either GD, HST, or Ranger only. Having said that, it seems to handle the 147 grain HST and 124 grain AE pretty well with a 14lb spring and no shock buffer as long as I use Wilson ETM mags. That is good enough for me. I suspect the bottom line is that 9mm 1911s are FAR more ammo, mag, and recoil spring sensitive than their 45 caliber cousins. That being said, they can be reliable enough for carry if you do your due diligence.

Finally, if you are looking at the CCU in 45, I strongly suggest that you give the Dan Wesson Specialist a look. Much better fit, finish, and customer support for $300-400 more. See my review of a 9mm Specialist in this sub-forum.

[Sensei]

Got another 50 rounds of 124 grain SB FMJ w/o failure using Wilson ETM mags.

It now has 1000 rounds with about 25% of that being JHP - mostly 147 grain HST and GD.

[JonInWA]

From a standpoint of seeing how you worked through the issues with this gun/platform, I'm impressed, and appreciative of you openly discussing the issues, work-arounds, work-throughs, and what seems to be a qualified success.

From an operational/defensive use standpoint, I'm appalled on what you had to go through to get things to work to the extent that you have.

At this point, if I were to get a 9mm 1911, it would be in the 4.25" Commander platform, and I'd be anecdotally predisposed to one of Alchemy Arms offerings.

But at a price point start of $3,500, I'm really, really hard pressed to justify one compared to, say, a Glock G19/G45/G47/G49 or an HK P30....or a quality used FN/Browning High Power Mk III.

I can admire and appreciate a 1911, but all of mine are in .45 ACP.

What I'm seeing is that to vet a 9mm 1911 for carry/defensive/duty use is far more trouble that what it's likely worth-especially given well-proven (and generally significantly less expensive) alternative platforms.

Yeah, I'll likely lose my 1911 hipster aficionado card, but I can live with that...

Best, Jon

[Sensei]

From a standpoint of seeing how you worked through the issues with this gun/platform, I'm impressed, and appreciative of you openly discussing the issues, work-arounds, work-throughs, and what seems to be a qualified success.

From an operational/defensive use standpoint, I'm appalled on what you had to go through to get things to work to the extent that you have.

At this point, if I were to get a 9mm 1911, it would be in the 4.25" Commander platform, and I'd be anecdotally predisposed to one of Alchemy Arms offerings.

But at a price point start of $3,500, I'm really, really hard pressed to justify one compared to, say, a Glock G19/G45/G47/G49 or an HK P30....or a quality used FN/Browning High Power Mk III.

I can admire and appreciate a 1911, but all of mine are in .45 ACP.

What I'm seeing is that to vet a 9mm 1911 for carry/defensive/duty use is far more trouble that what it's likely worth-especially given well-proven (and generally significantly less expensive) alternative platforms.

Yeah, I'll likely lose my 1911 hipster aficionado card, but I can live with that...

Best, Jon

No problem Jon. Please see my thread on the Dan Wesson Specialist in 9mm.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?54874-Dan-Wesson-Specialist-9mm-Review-and-Impressions/page8

Embedded in that thread are my experiences with a DW Guardian. That would save you about $1500. Both of those guns have been acceptably reliable across an assortment of magazines and ammunition. Of note, the Specialist comes in a Commander length slide. I suspect that it will also be available in the Optics Ready configuration within the next couple of years.

[JSGlock34]

From a standpoint of seeing how you worked through the issues with this gun/platform, I'm impressed, and appreciative of you openly discussing the issues, work-arounds, work-throughs, and what seems to be a qualified success.

From an operational/defensive use standpoint, I'm appalled on what you had to go through to get things to work to the extent that you have.

At this point, if I were to get a 9mm 1911, it would be in the 4.25" Commander platform, and I'd be anecdotally predisposed to one of Alchemy Arms offerings.

But at a price point start of $3,500, I'm really, really hard pressed to justify one compared to, say, a Glock G19/G45/G47/G49 or an HK P30....or a quality used FN/Browning High Power Mk III.

I can admire and appreciate a 1911, but all of mine are in .45 ACP.

What I'm seeing is that to vet a 9mm 1911 for carry/defensive/duty use is far more trouble that what it's likely worth-especially given well-proven (and generally significantly less expensive) alternative platforms.

Yeah, I'll likely lose my 1911 hipster aficionado card, but I can live with that...

Best, Jon

Small sample size, but in my personal experience, the double-stack Staccato design has proven far more reliable than a single stack 9mm 1911. While the 2011 magazine leaves something to be desired (hence the Wilson EDC X9 and new V3 Staccato C/CS designs), but I haven't had any magazine related malfunctions in over 16,000 rounds through Staccato models (not to mention an overall MRBS better than 1 in 4000 rounds). While I think the Wilson ETM, ETM-HD, and ETM-V magazines in .45 are best in class, I'm not sure anyone has produced an equivalent 9mm 1911 magazine.

[gato naranja]

Bummer. I love the idea of buying a 9mm 1911 but have avoided them so far in favor of plastic handguns whose function I felt I could trust a little more out of the box...

We have had good luck with our Springfield nines, but they have also been pampered "fun guns"/range toys (for the most part). The 5" RO Operator overcame initial hiccups to become utterly reliable and a joy to shoot as long as I follow "the regimen," but the old cat's paranoia never really goes away. The wife's RO Compact has been good to go from the beginning.

Alas, for more practical uses Berettas have gotten the nod.

[JonInWA]

Exactly....

Best, Jon

[bofe954]

I really think you need a ramped barrel (Wilson/Nowlin, Clark/Para, whatever) to make a 1911 decent in 9mm. The only manufacturer that I don't see using one is Colt. You mention it in your Dan Wesson review. Even a glock barrel looks more like a ramped 1911 barrel than a non ramped.

I know there is supposed to be some art to the fit at the non ramped barrel to frame junction, but it just seems silly to have a seam like that interact with your bullet if it happens nose down a little. It is probably less of an issue with the larger diameter of a .45 ACP, and you can imagine why it would be worse with a HP vs a round nose.

The ramped 9mm mags seems to be an attempt at a solution, and you can also see how the perfect mag could solve the problem.

[Trooper224]

These are things I've learned in fours decades with God's gun.

If you desire a Govt. Model stick with the .45. If a Commander's your thing ditch the .45 and go 9mm. Anything smaller and the juice honestly isn't worth the squeeze. .38 Super and 10mm are rabbit holes best left for weekend bangers.

Colt's pony is no longer any guarantee of a functioning gun. They continue to fall farther down the list of manufacturers you should be interested in. If they're not using a ramped barrel in a 9mm, they no longer give a shit.

[G19Fan]

These are things I've learned in fours decades with God's gun.

If you desire a Govt. Model stick with the .45. If a Commander's your thing ditch the .45 and go 9mm. Anything smaller and the juice honestly isn't worth the squeeze. .38 Super and 10mm are rabbit holes best left for weekend bangers.

Colt's pony is no longer any guarantee of a functioning gun. They continue to fall farther down the list of manufacturers you should be interested in. If they're not using a ramped barrel in a 9mm, they no longer give a shit.

What are your favorite 9mm 1911 commanders? Both normal price and say les baer prices range.

I don't know anything about 1911s besides shooting them but am tempted by a 9mm commander

[Trooper224]

What are your favorite 9mm 1911 commanders? Both normal price and say les baer prices range.

I don't know anything about 1911s besides shooting them but am tempted by a 9mm commander

I own two Tisas Commanders, a Stingray and a Tank Commander both in 9mm. My son also owns two. I've worked on all four of them, tweaking for performance. But, they've all been solid shooters right out of the box. I've chronicled this in the ongoing Tisas thread. They aren't perfect, but niether are any of the other off-the-rack brands. If wrenching may be required, I don't see the point in paying Colt/Springfield money for the privilege.

Typically, I've been a big fan of Dan Wesson pistols and long desired a Vigil Commander, but that one's out of production. All of my DW's are also Pre-pandemic shutdown/CZ-Colt merger. So, I don't feel I can give a strong thumbs up right now. As far as production brands that's the lions share of my experience. Owned one Kimber years ago: lipstick on a pig. I didn't care for Rugers parts fitment when they got into the 1911 biz, but I've been told they've improved. I've always avoided 1911s with external extractors, so I've just viewed companies like S&W and Sig from afar. Rock Island is pretty solid for a budget gun, but Tisas has stolen a lot of their thunder with what I feel is a superior product. I still think Colt and Springfield are solid overall, but the value for money prospect is no longer in their favor.

I just see too many issues anymore with Wilson Combat to pay their freight. Les Baer is an asshole and I've never liked his philosophy of forcing the paying customer to be the last step in the fitting process. Nighthawk's nice. Ed Brown's pretty decent and I like what I see coming out of Alchemy Custom Weaponry these days. Their guys on GoobTube could use a class in interpersonal communication, but the product's nice.

Honestly, if Dan Wesson can't do it for me on the upper end of production, at this point I'd be more likely to skip the boutique shops and go full bespoke custom with someone like Jason Burton at Heirloom Precision. IMHO, the cost of the mid-range brands have risen to the point past diminishing returns.

[G19Fan]

I own two Tisas Commanders, a Stingray and a Tank Commander both in 9mm. My son also owns two. I've worked on all four of them, tweaking for performance. But, they've all been solid shooters right out of the box. I've chronicled this in the ongoing Tisas thread. They aren't perfect, but niether are any of the other off-the-rack brands. If wrenching may be required, I don't see the point in paying Colt/Springfield money for the privilege.

Typically, I've been a big fan of Dan Wesson pistols and long desired a Vigil Commander, but that one's out of production. All of my DW's are also Pre-pandemic shutdown/CZ-Colt merger. So, I don't feel I can give a strong thumbs up right now. As far as production brands that's the lions share of my experience. Owned one Kimber years ago: lipstick on a pig. I didn't care for Rugers parts fitment when they got into the 1911 biz, but I've been told they've improved. I've always avoided 1911s with external extractors, so I've just viewed companies like S&W and Sig from afar. Rock Island is pretty solid for a budget gun, but Tisas has stolen a lot of their thunder with what I feel is a superior product. I still think Colt and Springfield are solid overall, but the value for money prospect is no longer in their favor.

I just see too many issues anymore with Wilson Combat to pay their freight. Les Baer is an asshole and I've never liked his philosophy of forcing the paying customer to be the last step in the fitting process. Nighthawk's nice. Ed Brown's pretty decent and I like what I see coming out of Alchemy Custom Weaponry these days. Their guys on GoobTube could use a class in interpersonal communication, but the product's nice.

Honestly, if Dan Wesson can't do it for me on the upper end of production, at this point I'd be more likely to skip the boutique shops and go full bespoke custom with someone like Jason Burton at Heirloom Precision. IMHO, the cost of the mid-range brands have risen to the point past diminishing returns.

Thank you been thinking of a tisa tank commander and I think you have swayed me into one next month!

[Trooper224]

Thank you been thinking of a tisa tank commander and I think you have swayed me into one next month!

It's a good, solid classic 1911 pattern, and a great base gun for a build.

[Robinson]

What are your favorite 9mm 1911 commanders? Both normal price and say les baer prices range.

I don't know anything about 1911s besides shooting them but am tempted by a 9mm commander

If you can get into that price range I'd suggest the Wilson Combat ACP Commander 9mm. I currently own the full-size model and it has been running great.

One thing to note is that with their 9mm 1911s Wilson supplies a second recoil spring with the gun. It comes with a lighter spring installed, the second (heavier) spring is to be installed after the break-in period. I just recently installed the heavier of the springs in my full-size and I like it better with the heavier spring.

I also own a full-size and Commander in 45ACP and I've had no problems with any of the guns. Based on my own personal experience with recently produced guns from Wilson their quality is still pretty good. Others may be seeing other things of course.