Speer Lawman Vs. Blazer Brass

[Sauer Koch]

I went to the range last night, and ended up with 5 rounds left on a box of 9mm, 115gr, Blazer Brass, so I put them in the mag, and the topped it off with 115gr Lawman. I really noticed the difference in power on the first 10 shots, then the first round of that BB went off, and the recoil dropped off dramatically!

If anyone doubts that the Lawman rounds are hotter, just load half of a mag with BB, AE, or whatever, and the other half with Lawman...you'll feel the difference!

I know this is nothing new to most, it was just an observation.

[M2CattleCo]

Yep. Lawman is pretty stout stuff. 124 Lawman in my 43 almost a handful, it feels hotter than NATO.

[blues]

I really like the accuracy I've been getting with the 147gr rounds out of my Glocks.

(While I've shot quite a bit of Blazer I can't say I'm a big fan versus equivalent offerings.)

[GJM]

My experience suggests Lawman is equivalent power and accuracy to duty ammo, but loaded with ball at lower cost. Blazer brass is economy ammo and substantially less accurate for me.

[littlejerry]

I really like the accuracy I've been getting with the 147gr rounds out of my Glocks.

147 Lawman has printed great groups for me at 25 yards in Gen 4 Glocks.

ETA:. 124 has performed the worst for me accuracy wise. 147 has been most consistent. 115 has been just "fine". This is in Gen4 19s and 34.

[GJM]

147 Lawman has printed great groups for me at 25 yards in Gen 4 Glocks.

ETA:. 124 has performed the worst for me accuracy wise. 147 has been most consistent. 115 has been just "fine". This is in Gen4 19s and 34.

Interesting, because I have noticed Lawman shooting exceptionally well in Gen 3 Glock 17 pistols, out to 100 yards, and less accurately in a few Gen 4 19 pistols.

[hufnagel]

So which flavor(s) would people recommend, from experience please, with Beretta 92 and H&K P30. There seems to be several different part numbers under the same grain.

[littlejerry]

Interesting, because I have noticed Lawman shooting exceptionally well in Gen 3 Glock 17 pistols, out to 100 yards, and less accurately in a few Gen 4 19 pistols.

Strange. My Gen4 guns are 2010-2012 vintage and my gen 3 is a 2008 Austrian import. My accuracy work is limited to 25 yards.

[LtDave]

So which flavor(s) would people recommend, from experience please, with Beretta 92 and H&K P30. There seems to be several different part numbers under the same grain.

Winchester 147 fmj of several different varieties shoots very well for me. My Wilson 92 did 1" with one and 1.25 to 1.5" with a couple of other Win loads. Winchester has subsonic SU, 3 gun BEB and Training W9mmT plus some FBI loads are out there. They are all worth trying. Another couple of heavier loads worth trying are the American Eagle 147 FMJFP and the S&B 140 subsonic. Speer Lawman 147 I've tested is the 53620 load. It does ok, but I've had more consistent accuracy across different guns with the Winchester ones.

The most consistently accurate 124 grain practice ammo for me has been Aguila FMJ.

[hufnagel]

sorry. I was specifically referring to the Lawman ammo.

[Up1911Fan]

Agreed. I train with 147gr Lawman. Feels just like my carry ammo.

[Joe Mac]

Lawman is our usual PD practice fodder. It's good – certainly better than much of the feeble crap that passes for 9mm practice ammo – but it doesn't really approximate carry ammo in 124+P flavor (standard pressure 124 or 147 is probably a lot closer).

Out of a G17, 124 Lawman usually runs right around 1100 for me, whereas 124+P Gold Dot consistently hits 1250+, and prints around 2" lower for me at 25 yards than Lawman. (Fortunately, the Gold Dot is hitting POA, while Lawman goes a little high.)

For comparison, multiple lots of Winchester NATO 124 have averaged 1170-1180 in my guns.

I'm content using Lawman for most of my training, but I tend to begin and end each session with a mag of either Gold Dot or NATO. There is a noticeable, but not dramatic difference in recoil.

[Joe in PNG]

I've been running the 147 load as practice fodder for my Berettas. POI is pretty much right on (then again, I suck) for my meager skills

[Tamara]

Speer Lawman 147gr out of the X-Carry looks like it runs about 50fps slower than 147gr HST out of similar length barrels according to the limited data I have here. Lawman 125gr .357SIG was a full 100fps slower out of my Glock 32 than the Win 125gr Ranger I fired at the same range session.

[Hambo]

So which flavor(s) would people recommend, from experience please, with Beretta 92 and H&K P30. There seems to be several different part numbers under the same grain.

I thought there were only two: clean fire or not. I've used the non-clean 53620 in my 92, but only a case of it.

[Medusa]

So which flavor(s) would people recommend, from experience please, with Beretta 92 and H&K P30. There seems to be several different part numbers under the same grain.

My berettas all seem to like lawman 115. It chronoed at exactly 1200 average out of a full-size LTT, for me earlier this year, power factor 138, at a state match. All 5 rounds were within a few fps. I’ve fired many thousands of rounds of it and like it a lot.

[Doc_Glock]

My berettas all seem to like lawman 115. It chronoed at exactly 1200 average out of a full-size LTT, for me earlier this year, power factor 138, at a state match. All 5 rounds were within a few fps. I’ve fired many thousands of rounds of it and like it a lot.

That's interesting because the 115 Lawman was the only ammo to choke my LTT in its fist thousand rounds.

[blues]

That's interesting because the 115 Lawman was the only ammo to choke my LTT in its fist thousand rounds.

When I got my G19 back from Glock, (frame replacement), Blazer was the only ammo to cause malfunctions in it. Never an issue with any other ammo...Win, S&B, Lawman, Federal, etc etc

I suppose it's possible I had a bad box...but it was very off-putting.

[Medusa]

I’ve tried blazer 147 and found it dirty and inconsistent. I still have a few hundred rounds of it I need to dispose of. I won’t be using blazer again. I don’t view it as much like lawman, quality wise, at all.

[Suvorov]

My experience suggests Lawman is equivalent power and accuracy to duty ammo, but loaded with ball at lower cost. Blazer brass is economy ammo and substantially less accurate for me.

My understanding is that is the point of the Lawman line - to give organizations a training round that will have the same recoil impulse as their duty load does.

Lawman is probably my favorite training load, but usually I go for the cheaper options as I don't feel the need for 100% of the impulse as that important to me.

I have also shot a great deal of Blazer Brass ammo. One thing I have noticed about it, versus other budget loads, is that it is not clean to the point where there is some of the powder that forms a grit. When I practice my retention drills at 1 yard, I notice quite a bit of "peppering" around the bullet hole in addition to the little swirl around the hole. Lawman, as well as most other training loads are much cleaner.

[GJM]

My understanding is that is the point of the Lawman line - to give organizations a training round that will have the same recoil impulse as their duty load does.

Lawman is probably my favorite training load, but usually I go for the cheaper options as I don't feel the need for 100% of the impulse as that important to me.

I have also shot a great deal of Blazer Brass ammo. One thing I have noticed about it, versus other budget loads, is that it is not clean to the point where there is some of the powder that forms a grit. When I practice my retention drills at 1 yard, I notice quite a bit of "peppering" around the bullet hole in addition to the little swirl around the hole. Lawman, as well as most other training loads are much cleaner.

$183/1,000


http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer-ammo-sale/1000-round-case-9mm-luger-speer-lawman-124-grain-tmj-ammo-53616-or-53651


Sent from my iPhone

[Suvorov]

$183/1,000


http://www.sgammo.com/product/speer-ammo-sale/1000-round-case-9mm-luger-speer-lawman-124-grain-tmj-ammo-53616-or-53651


Sent from my iPhone

Thanks - that is a great price!

Sadly I am no longer able to order from SGAMMO. I no longer enjoy the basic freedom of interstate commerce.

I had to place my orders a few years ago and now running though my stockpile.......

[Coyotesfan97]

Speer Lawman is our training ammunition. It runs great. We have used Blazer in the past. No real issues with it other than it’s dirty. I prefer the Lawman.

[Bart Carter]

When deciding what ammo to use, these are my results:

Gun barrel Mfg Weight Ave fps PF Ft Lbs
Walther 4 Fiocchi 115 1151 132 339
Walther 4 Lawman 115 1247 143 397
Walther 4 Lawman 124 1090 135 327
Walther 4 Fiocchi 124 1128 140 350
Walther 4 BBrass 124 1095 136 330
Walther 4 Lawman 147 1003 147 328
Walther 5 Fiocchi 115 1203 138 369
Walther 5 Lawman 115 1311 151 439
Walther 5 Lawman 124 1116 138 343
Walther 5 BBrass 124 1148 142 363
Walther 5 Fiocchi 124 1202 149 398
Walther 5 Lawman 147 1054 155 362


The Lawman 115 was really old stock and I could really feel the difference.

As for PF, that doesn't seem to be as important as Ft. Lbs. as far as felt recoil. I found that the lowest Ft. Lbs correlated to less recoil, PF be damned.

[If there is a way to copy and paste spreadsheet data so it looks right, I would like to know. :p]

[El Cid]

I’ve always avoided Blazer Brass as I understood it to be made with plated bullets. The plating can come off affecting accuracy as well as leaving material in your barrel. In fact Mr Dobbs suggested it’s a possibility in this thread about a bulged barrel.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?38599-Glock-getting-stuck&p=941105&viewfull=1#post941105

[Doc_Glock]

I don’t know. The last lots of 147 Blazer Brass versus Lawman I had just going by the outside finish of the cartridge, the Blazer seemed way higher quality. The Lawman was so grungy it made me want to quit buying it. I know the cover isn’t the book.

Thanks to those who posted the chrono data.

[OlongJohnson]

[If there is a way to copy and paste spreadsheet data so it looks right, I would like to know. :p]

table="width: 500"









/table

The "table" button is your friend.

[Bart Carter]

table="width: 500"









/table

The "table" button is your friend.

Saw that, but still don't know how to paste a table in that setup. Are there instructions somewhere? Or do I have to paste cell by cell, row by row, column by column? Confused. :confused:

[Bart Carter]

I don’t know. The last lots of 147 Blazer Brass versus Lawman I had just going by the outside finish of the cartridge, the Blazer seemed way higher quality. The Lawman was so grungy it made me want to quit buying it. I know the cover isn’t the book.

Thanks to those who posted the chrono data.

When I compared 124 BBrass with 124 Lawman I felt that the Lawman had the better bullet. I pulled the bullets out to confirm total metal jackets, even though BBrass is stated at full metal jacket. I'm now using the Lawman exclusively.

[OlongJohnson]

Saw that, but still don't know how to paste a table in that setup. Are there instructions somewhere? Or do I have to paste cell by cell, row by row, column by column? Confused. :confused:

Yeah, it's pretty manual. If you're handy with Excel, you can kinda hack it a little and make it more efficient. Like figure out the code, paste it into your Excel doc, and then save as text, verifying the VBulletin code is what you want before pasting it into your post.

[spence]

Yeah, it's pretty manual. If you're handy with Excel, you can kinda hack it a little and make it more efficient. Like figure out the code, paste it into your Excel doc, and then save as text, verifying the VBulletin code is what you want before pasting it into your post.

Old discussion, I know. I’m lazy. Screen shots seem to work for these sort of applications. Post as a photo.

[Bart Carter]

How about this?
I find that PF (power factor) is measured for shooting matches but Ft lbs (muzzle energy) is meaningful to felt recoil.

44553