Which 22 LR bolt gun for 100 yards?

[mrozowjj]

I have for the last 3 years only really had access to 25 yards so I focused mostly on pistol shooting. I have recently joined a range with fixed berms at 25, 100, and 200 yards (no other intermediate ranges possible) and I am now considering doing some more rifle shooting.

I had been considering getting a .308 rifle but seeing as how I have no real desire to hunt or do any of the accuracy competitions I recently decided I could save a lot of o money if I instead got a nice 22 LR rifle instead.

My intention now is to shoot a lot of 22 LR at 100 yards until I get good or well frustrated. Ha.

I know CZs are well regarded and a local dealer loves them (He has 455s and actually bought up the last stock fo 452s he could find in the country so he has a few of those too... he's a quirky dude; even has Anschutz rifles in stock) but a friend told me to look Savages because they are "Cheaper and will shoot about as good, have cheaper magazines, etc" and he was a fan of their Accutrigger.

I personally have no stakes in the game as of yet. I'm not even tied to a bolt gun, I wouldn't be opposed to a semi if I could get one in my price range that would be very accurate in my price range. My requirements are:


$300-500 range for just the gun.
Magazines are readily available and reasonably affordable
Should have serviceable iron sights as I likely will not get a scope for at least a few months and I don't like the idea of having a gun that I can't shoot for a few months
Is very accurate at 100 yards
Threaded barrel would be a bonus but not required. I have no plans to get a silencer anytime soon but if ASA passes I would jump on one at some point down the road.


I've asked this elsewhere but I tend to trust you guys more.

[Clusterfrack]

Here's my 22 Trainer build. It's good out to 225 yds. Sorry--no iron sights.
Savage Mark II FV-SR
Midway Metal chassis
Magpul CTR w/cheek riser
BCM Grip 0
Scope: BSA Mil/Mil FFP 4-14x44 ($300)
AAC Element II
Weaver Tactical 6 hole rings
http://swfa.com/Weaver-Six-Hole-Tactical-30mm-Rings-P46465.aspx

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170622/c39b79c13b11066884e07473be0cb1cc.jpg

[SeriousStudent]

I think the iron sights requirement is going to eliminate a lot of quality picks from your consideration.

I have a CZ 455 Tacticool, that I bought because it already had a usable stock.

The mags are about $35. More expensive than some others, but try pricing AICS 7.62 mags and then you will be happy with $35 mags.

It's already threaded for a can, and the threads are concentric to the bore - an important thing to think about.

Re: ASA. I think you mean HPA - Hearing Protection Act. The ASA is usually a reference to the American Silencer Association.

Hope that helps.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Get one of the CZs and get a quality scope. None of the irons available on the price range you're in are worth crap. To get truly precise irons, you'll have to get into the Anschutz world on a stupid expensive match rifle. My CZ 452 Varmint is scary at 50 and 100 yards.

[Wyoming Shooter]

What you want isn't within your price range. We have a weekly 50 yard 22 bench rest shoot. Pretty much everyone is shooting a bolt gun. Think CZ, Anschutz, Kimber, and Sako. I suggest saving your money until you can buy a quality rifle. Best, ELN.

[RevolverRob]

CMP sells the Savage MKII FVT to clubs for Junior Marksmanship Training. They use Williams-type iron sights and make excellent bolt action trainers. Unfortunately, CMP only sells those models to clubs and not individuals - http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/22-target-commercial/ - But you can order the MK II FVT through any dealer (you just pay more than the CMP price).

If I wanted a bolt-action .22 with irons for .22 work - I would start right there.

[scott]

I shoot my CZ 452 lux with a williams aperture sight out to 300 yards regularly. With good ammo hitting a 12x20 IDPA steel at that range is easy. That's not super impressive accuracy or anything special, but I think it's a good match for what you're looking for. Last time I checked, the rifles go for a bit under 400, and the sight for about 80.

[SecondsCount]

I am happy with my two CZ 455s, one is a Varmint and the other is a Tacticool.

A few Savages I have shot were pretty accurate but a lot of corners are cut in the fit and finish department. You get what you pay for.

If you want irons, another choice would be a Ruger American. I picked one up slightly used for a price that was impassable. It is my go to rifle for cheap iron sight practice.

At 100, accuracy helps but the wind is your real enemy.

[mrozowjj]

I feel like people are missing the part where I say the sights have to be serviceable. I'm not expecting to hit shots at 100 with them or at least not as easily as I would with a scope. I just don't want to have an unusable gun for a few months.


What you want isn't within your price range. We have a weekly 50 yard 22 bench rest shoot. Pretty much everyone is shooting a bolt gun. Think CZ, Anschutz, Kimber, and Sako. I suggest saving your money until you can buy a quality rifle. Best, ELN.

I don't think your reply was as constructive as you seem to think it is.

[Odin Bravo One]

And for all the talk about the bolt guns, the reality is that if you're not feeding top end anmo $9.00-12.00 a box of 50, even your top tier guns won't do much for superb accuracy.

I had, and liked an Anshutz biathlon rifle I got from a former contender in that discipline. But it wasn't even close to your price point. After shooting some indoor winter small bore matches, I had an issue with the sights (gun was knocked over and sights needed replaced after their impact with the floor) and shot the rest of the season with my home built 10/22. It was an awkward transition from the purpose built gun to a hardware store pick up. Another shooter loaned me a barrel, and I'll be damned if it didn't turn in some respectable groups.

Ultimately, I sold the Anshutz (to the douche canoe who knocked it over in the first place) and put some of the returned money into my 10/22. I wouldn't trade that rifle for all the tea in china. It is as accurate as the dedicated gun when I feed it the right ammo thru a legitimate barrel. I have not always cared for it as I should, so I've replaced the barrel more than I would have liked, and it would need a new one now to be competitive.

But as it stands this second, it will still shoot 2-2.5" at 100 yards with Lapua ammo. With CCIs, it's about a 4" gun. Hands down my favorite .22 in the stable. Granted, it's not at your price point either, but initial investment is, and like the 1911 or AR-15, you have an entire cottage industry to support modification if/when the time comes you want to.

If you're willing to do the work, and upgrade as you can afford to, a semi-auto can hold its own against the bolt guns in the accuracy department. The number of shooters with the skill to notice the difference is quite small. Shooting benchrest is a different game altogether and bolt and single shot rifles take advantage of the edge provided by them, but most people are not capable of that degree of accuracy without the help of the bench. And the rest.

[okie john]

I'm also in Seattle. Which range did you join?


Okie John

[NH Shooter]

I'm in the club that would rather have fewer high quality guns vs. a larger collection of mediocre ones. I also truly appreciate attractive fit and finish, especially when it includes blued steel and wood.

A few years ago I decided to put together a "quality" .22LR rifle (though iron sights were not needed). Along with reasonably decent fit and finish, I was primarily interested in the greatest amount of precision I could get for the $$ (around $500 to $600 for a complete rifle). Yes, I could have saved and spent plenty more on a .22 rifle but based on the reports of excellent accuracy, a workable trigger and the availability of aftermarket accessories, I ended up with a Savage Mkll FV to serve as the basis for the project.

I replaced the incredibly cheap plastic stock with a Boyd's Hunter laminated stock (https://www.boydsgunstocks.com/design-gallery/rimfire-hunter-(rh)-replacement-gunstocks), that I ended up doing a bedding project (http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=556190) on to better secure the action to the stock (this is a major weak point of these rifles). I used the scope mounts included with the rifle and bedded them (http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=555474) (as in JB Welded them directly to) the receiver in perfectly-aligned fashioned. I used Leupold PRW rings (https://www.leupold.com/hunting-shooting/mounting-systems/prw-mounting-systems/) and installed a Clear Ridge Ultra RM (http://www.clearidgeoptics.com/product-p/3340.htm) scope. An Apache Trigger Kit (https://www.amazon.com/Apachee-Trigger-Savage-Mark-model/dp/B00YWDHVAI) was used to achieve a very respectably crisp trigger pull of about two pounds. I also installed a Mountain Shooter sling (https://www.triadtactical.com/Mountain-Shooter-Sling.html) which works extremely well for shooting from field positions. All tolled I ended up very close to my $600 budget when it was done.

I am very pleased with the end result: it's a very decent rifle capable of sub .5 MOA precision with non-match Geco LR ammo at 50 yards. Creating a solid union between the barreled action and stock was a major undertaking but worked out well. For under $250 the Clear Ridge scope is IMO perfect for a general-purpose .22 rifle; excellent mechanical quality and optics, and not too big and heavy. Metal cap covered semi-target turrets, locking eyepiece diopter, a smooth turning adjustable objective focus (mine focuses down to well under 30 feet), very decent optics and made in Japan quality, Clear Ridge seems a well-kept secret but it's certainly a lot of scope for the money.

If I had to do it again I would probably go with a CZ, especially if I had no interest in home gunsmith projects. The Savage Mk ll suffers from a terrible receiver-to-stock interface, truly lousy almost unusable magazines (the stainless steel versions are somewhat better), pitiful plastic stocks and mediocre finishing (thinking about Cerakote for mine). The other side of the coin is a good trigger and great accuracy potential that with some work can be used to create a very capable (and presentable) rifle.


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/rfh-15.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/rfh-16.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/rfh-17.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/FVtarget-2.jpg

[DamonL]

CMP sells the Savage MKII FVT to clubs for Junior Marksmanship Training. They use Williams-type iron sights and make excellent bolt action trainers. Unfortunately, CMP only sells those models to clubs and not individuals - http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/22-target-commercial/ - But you can order the MK II FVT through any dealer (you just pay more than the CMP price).

If I wanted a bolt-action .22 with irons for .22 work - I would start right there.

If you plan on shooting bullseye targets for small groups, this would have the best iron sights for that in your price range. If you plan to scope it, you would have to remove the rear sight. I don't know anything about the rifle itself. But NH Shooter's info might be useful.

[Wyoming Shooter]

I feel like people are missing the part where I say the sights have to be serviceable. I'm not expecting to hit shots at 100 with them or at least not as easily as I would with a scope. I just don't want to have an unusable gun for a few months.



I don't think your reply was as constructive as you seem to think it is.

No offense was intended. I just don't know of any 22 that is "very accurate at 100 yards" and meets your other criteria in the $300 - 500 range. Good luck with your search. Shooting 22s at distance is great fun.

[Soggy]

I feel like people are missing the part where I say the sights have to be serviceable. I'm not expecting to hit shots at 100 with them or at least not as easily as I would with a scope. I just don't want to have an unusable gun for a few months.



I don't think your reply was as constructive as you seem to think it is.

You may be forgetting the old adage "you can't always get what you want". I would suggest having some patience and grab a 452 w/o irons while you can. The stocks on the 452's with irons are designed to be used with irons. Not sure how big a deal that is if you scoped one later, but something to consider.

If you can't wait, you might want to check out rimfirecentral.com and get some ideas there.

[jeep45238]

It's no bolt, but a 10/22 with tech sites is good to 200 yards with a 1 foot hold over (25m zero). Heavily supported and cheap used.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Clusterfrack]

For me, the utility of a .22 bolt gun is that I can practice wind calls and holds, engaging multiple targets and varying ranges under time pressure, awkward positions, etc. --all compressed into a 250 yd. course of fire, using cheap(er) ammo. 250 yd for .22LR requires ~10 mil, around what it takes to hit 1100 yds for my .260.

[DIESEL]

I recently bought a Ruger American 22 for my son and was EXTREMELY impressed in the accuracy right out of the box, the first two shots I took were actually touching!! (Only at 30 yards just to check the thing out before I handed it off him) I got the full sized one and it came with the stock mod so when I put a scope on it for him it was a natural cheek weld. It takes the classic 10/22 mags that I have a tub of and trust. He pretty consistently puts all ten in the black at 100 yrds with the 4x I put on it. Might not be a special made marksmanship pice but for $300-$500 it is as close as your going to get and when or if you go up to a hunting caliber you can get an American in any caliber and know the gun already.

[NH Shooter]

The stocks on the 452's with irons are designed to be used with irons. Not sure how big a deal that is if you scoped one later, but something to consider.

Good point. These stocks usually have a significant drop of the comb to be able to use the close-to-the-bore iron sights. Once you install a scope you will most likely need a cheek riser or a new stock with enough comb height to get a proper cheek weld.

[BN]

A CZ is going to get you the closest to what you want while staying within your budget.

I have a CZ 455 Varmint and I like it a lot.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=328 Lots of good info here. Read stuff by Topstrap44. I shoot .22's with him. He puts on a long range rimfire match at his place. Targets from 25 yards out to 197. Most of the shooters are using bolt guns. Probably Anschutz is the most popular, but that is above your budget. There is mix of older target rifles mixed in. A lot of people are shooting Wolf Match Target ammo at $6 a box.

I would recommend a CZ from your local shop and talk him into selling you a cheap used scope to start. Eventually, you will need a good scope with target knobs so you can dial in at the different distances.

[RevolverRob]

To hear some of y'all tell...I must be really lucky to regularly shoot my Remington Nylon 66 @ 100 yards and get sub-MOA accuracy out of it. The 4x32 Weaver scope certainly helps, but maybe because that's the rifle I got for my 10th birthday and I've been shooting it since then...

My sarcastic point is - if you want to get into accurate shooting; no need to jump right into an Anschutz (which don't get me wrong, they are AMAZING rifles). Unless you're already a great rifle shooter. A Savage MKII serves as a solid foundation for Boy Scouts, ROTC Cadets, and just about every one else. Once you get solid trigger control, breathing, etc. You can move on to the big money guns. I've helped teach YMCA Camp kids before with Savage MKIs and MKIIs and a few bricks of Aguila Match and we had no problem teaching 10-13 year old boys to shoot nickle sized groups with irons at 50-yards, and quarter-sized groups at 100, in just a under 6-hours on the range.

I plan to get all of my nephews and my niece individual Ruger 10/22s when the time is right. But they will all start out on the single-shot Savage MKI for fundamentals of shooting and then move on to advanced shooting. I figure by the time they are all in the teens (the oldest and youngest are 5-years apart, total). I'll have my own well regulated mini-Militia.

[mrozowjj]

You may be forgetting the old adage "you can't always get what you want". I would suggest having some patience and grab a 452 w/o irons while you can. The stocks on the 452's with irons are designed to be used with irons. Not sure how big a deal that is if you scoped one later, but something to consider.

If you can't wait, you might want to check out rimfirecentral.com and get some ideas there.


Good point. These stocks usually have a significant drop of the comb to be able to use the close-to-the-bore iron sights. Once you install a scope you will most likely need a cheek riser or a new stock with enough comb height to get a proper cheek weld.

No particular rush with this. I hadn't thought about that. I might be better off waiting to get a scope too.



No offense was intended. I just don't know of any 22 that is "very accurate at 100 yards" and meets your other criteria in the $300 - 500 range. Good luck with your search. Shooting 22s at distance is great fun.

I just meant that you said I can't get what I want for $300-500 which might be true but you didn't tell me how much I'd need to spend to get that. If it's $600 I might go "Well ok I'll save" but if it's $1200 I'll settle for whatever I can get in my price range. Simply stating "You can't get that for your price" wasn't very constructive.

[Soggy]

No particular rush with this. I hadn't thought about that. I might be better off waiting to get a scope too.

.

Just to clarify: I would get the 452 now while you can, and then have the patience to not shoot it until you get the scope later. If you wait to get the 452 they could well be gone. Not that there is anything wrong with a 455 if that is your only option (or the savage).

[mrozowjj]

Just to clarify: I would get the 452 now while you can, and then have the patience to not shoot it until you get the scope later. If you wait to get the 452 they could well be gone. Not that there is anything wrong with a 455 if that is your only option (or the savage).

The local dealer is CZ fanatic and bought every 452 he could get his hands. He made a post about it on his webpage awhile ago saying he found a distributor with some 452s in stock and he bought up every one he could find. He has these in stock currently


452-2E ZKM Super Match 22LR
452 American Classic
452 American
452 STD Still 1/2x20 Thread 22LR

[Jim Watson]

Bud's has a CZ American for $389.
Instead of buying a CZ with tangent open sight and "hog back" stock or a Savage with the typical 50 cent stamped open sights just so you can go shooting the next day, I recommend getting the American and a cheap scope. I had a 4X Bushnell on a 10-22 that did pretty well.

[littlejerry]

My favorite rifle ever is my 452 Lux. It's been exceptionally accurate and a pleasure to shoot out to 175 yards.

My 452 American may be easier to shoot small groups with, but shooting with irons is flat out more fun for me.

[LtDave]

I've done quite a bit of long range (200-300 yard) shooting with .22's. people I know who have shot long range (1000 yard) high power as well as the .22 at 300 yards tell me the challenges are similar. Most of my long range .22 work has been with single shots, a Winchester high wall with a 8x Lyman Jr Targetspot and a Browning .45-70 with a .22 insert and Soule aperture sights. I've also shot a lot of .22 silhouette matches from 40 to 100 yards. Don't overlook a good lever action .22 like a Marlin 39a or a Winchester 9422. All they need is a good aperture sight. To do well at longer ranges, you'll need good sights and good ammo. The sights need to have easily repeatable adjustments. Going from 50 yards to 300 yards requires a lot of elevation, most scopes with internal adjustments don't have enough to get there. Been there done that. The Aguila Match Rifle has shot well for me and is reasonably priced for match grade .22 ammo, but every gun is different and yours might do ok with a less expensive round. To do really well you will probably want to weigh your ammo and also sort by rim thickness. The more expensive the ammo, the less necessary it is to do that.

[mrozowjj]

Just to clarify: I would get the 452 now while you can, and then have the patience to not shoot it until you get the scope later. If you wait to get the 452 they could well be gone. Not that there is anything wrong with a 455 if that is your only option (or the savage).

I listed the 452s the dealer has in stock above, I don't know what the difference is between them though. Do you happen to know?

[Soggy]

I listed the 452s the dealer has in stock above, I don't know what the difference is between them though. Do you happen to know?


I listed the 452s the dealer has in stock above, I don't know what the difference is between them though. Do you happen to know?

452-2E ZKM Super Match 22LR - Irons, ~25" barrel, drop comb stock is set up for the irons (https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/806703020334)
452 American Classic - Literally "the classic" 452. 22" barrel. Walnut stock. No irons, straight comb stock. (https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/806703020105)
452 American - Like the classic but with a beech stock (https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/806703020259)
452 STD Still 1/2x20 Thread 22LR - Like the classic but threaded with a non-standard thread that will likely need an adapter (https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/806703020396)

If you don't think you'll ever get a suppressor the classic is a good bet, or the one with the beech stock if you want to save a few bucks. If you do get a suppressor you can always have the barrel cut. The threaded American has a standard length barrel, so when you put a suppressor on it might be kind of long. Of course, you could always get that cut down and threaded with normal threads later if you wanted. I am waiting on my suppressor and will take a wait and see approach to that question for my threaded American.

If they have more than one of what you want you might ask to see a couple of them and pick the one with the prettiest stock (assuming they are not busy in the store).

[Bigghoss]

I have a Savage MKII TR that I got a few years ago. I only had access to about 80 yards but out of the box without doing anything to it it seemed like I couldn't miss. If I had to do it over again I would look really hard at CZ. When I got my Savage CZ didn't have their tacticool model out which is what I wanted. Still, the Savage is a solid performer.

[KeeFus]

Im not much on 22 bolt guns. All I have is a Remington 552 Speedmaster.

My cousin is all about them. He has a few CZ rifles and he is always testing them for accuracy with different ammo. He is puts his findings online.

He's on instagram: natebonebusta or you can read his journal, squirrelhuntingjournal.com.

[StraitR]

I don't have a lot to add on top of what's already been said, but I've been happy with my CZ455 Varmint. My local range is in meters, and has a max of 200m, so I and my buddies all put together 22's to compensate for lack of distance. I've tried a lot of match ammo, Eley, Aguila, Wolf, Federal, and RWS. Never really settled on one type of ammo, since it was more for fun and friendly competition amongst friends, but the rifle is only limited by me.

I used an SWFA SS 10X, mounted in Talley rings I believe.
Dip Products picatinny base - https://www.diproductsinc.com/Products.aspx?CAT=4268
YoDave Trigger kit - http://www.yodaveproducts.com

[mrozowjj]

I have a Savage MKII TR that I got a few years ago. I only had access to about 80 yards but out of the box without doing anything to it it seemed like I couldn't miss. If I had to do it over again I would look really hard at CZ. When I got my Savage CZ didn't have their tacticool model out which is what I wanted. Still, the Savage is a solid performer.

I thought you were joking about there being a tacticool model but that's actually the name and it looks super cool.

[Bigghoss]

I thought you were joking about there being a tacticool model but that's actually the name and it looks super cool.

Actually I was kinda joking, I had forgotten it was called the tacticool. If I had to do it over again I would probably buy the CZ tacticool but I have no regrets. I haven't shot it much for several years and I need some decent glass for it but when I did shoot it out to 80 yards I could break the shards of clays on the hillside all day with whatever ammo I had without much effort. I have read that the MKII-TR is capable out to 150 when set up right and I believe it. I doubt you can push the .22lr much farther than that but I would think the CZ is closer to doing it out-of-the-box. But that's only based on what I know about the Savage specifically and what I know about CZ in general. I haven't really looked into the CZ Tacticool specifically because I already have the Savage.

[mrozowjj]

Ironically the CZ Tacitcool is one of the more appealing models to me and it's the one CZ my CZ fanatic dealer doesn't have a distributor for.

[Soggy]

Ironically the CZ Tacitcool is one of the more appealing models to me and it's the one CZ my CZ fanatic dealer doesn't have a distributor for.

Don't let that stop you, just find one yourself and have it shipped to the dealer.

[Welder]

If money is THE object, I'd head to my local pawn shop and pick an old Marlin or Remington 581 off the rack.

[mrozowjj]

I ended up getting a CZ 455 Training gun because it had the tangent sights... I should have listened to you all about the sights being shit at this price range because those sights are practically unusable so I'm looking to get rid of it and get something without sights. I know I could replace the barrel and stock to get something that fits but by the time I do that the cost will be more than a brand new gun so I feel like I might as well sell it and then try something else.

I'm leaning towards a Savage B22 FV-SR because it's cheaper and honestly there are some things about the CZ 455 I didn't like that weren't related to the sights (Sticky bolt, difficult to open or close) and the CZ I want is almost twice the price of the Savage. Not that money is the sole issue but it seems like the Savage accuracy is comparable to the CZ so why bother spending the extra on the CZ? Also it seems like Savage addressed most of the issues that people complain about with the MK II guns; better extraction, better magazines, and better stiffer stock.

[scott]

I know I mentioned this earlier already, but a williams FP rear sight on the cz is like a whole new rifle. It's a great combination.
https://williamsgunsight.com/product-category/rifle-sights/cz-rifle-sights/

[OlongJohnson]

The J&P dovetail to Weaver adapters are the way to go on a CZ.

https://www.jnpgunsprings.com/CZ-RIMFIRE-PARTS-c20995123

The experience of going through a Savage FV-SR and making it tolerably less of a POS turned me into a CZ guy.

[mrozowjj]

The J&P dovetail to Weaver adapters are the way to go on a CZ.

https://www.jnpgunsprings.com/CZ-RIMFIRE-PARTS-c20995123

The experience of going through a Savage FV-SR and making it tolerably less of a POS turned me into a CZ guy.

Was it really that big of a pain in the ass?

Also that link doesn't seem to resolve anywhere.

[OlongJohnson]

Overall build quality and fit and finish on the Savage were very poor. They had not cleaned all the steel shot blast media out of the scope mount holes on the receiver, so the screws that were holding on the factory-installed optic base were all jacked. They sent new screws, but I should have just asked them for a new rifle when I got to that point. I was able to chase the threads, but it's sub-optimal. I figure there's a limited number of remove/reinstall cycles on those parts.

Apart from that, I had to do a lot of cleanup and smoothing of the action. The plastic stock totally sucked, so I went Boyd's. I did the DIP bottom metal, and what showed up was poorly finished, needing a lot of deburring and spotfaces applied so the action screws wouldn't be seated on one edge of the heads. Totally underwhelming, and I could have made a similar part from scratch in only a little more time just starting with a piece of aluminum I have sitting under my work bench. The DIP aluminum trigger guard was nice. There's some guy on RFC who charges about $50, if I remember right, for about $3 worth of springs and widgets, and the Savage guys jump in line to pay it for their $200 rifles. That seriously bugs me. By the time I was done, the money and time involved just weren't worth it to me.

In contrast, you pretty much take a CZ out of the box, clean it and shoot it. There may be some slicking of the action to be done, but the parts are nicely made. The #144 spring costs like $0.87 or so at my local Ace Hardware. CZs don't start out embarrassing, and you don't have to replace a bunch of stuff with overpriced disappointment.

J&P has some weird coding on the site that I've never seen before. You can only go in from the main page and navigate from there. The link above is the correct URL for the CZ stuff, but copying from the page I'm looking at and pasting that address into another tab yields a blank page. So does attempting to open the page from the main page in a new tab. So just go in the front door:

https://www.jnpgunsprings.com/

[BN]

My CZ bolt smoothed out real nice after I ran a few bricks of Wolf Match Target through it. :) I have a DIP rail on mine. http://www.diproductsinc.com/Products.aspx?CAT=3600

[mrozowjj]

Overall build quality and fit and finish on the Savage were very poor. They had not cleaned all the steel shot blast media out of the scope mount holes on the receiver, so the screws that were holding on the factory-installed optic base were all jacked. They sent new screws, but I should have just asked them for a new rifle when I got to that point. I was able to chase the threads, but it's sub-optimal. I figure there's a limited number of remove/reinstall cycles on those parts.

Apart from that, I had to do a lot of cleanup and smoothing of the action. The plastic stock totally sucked, so I went Boyd's. I did the DIP bottom metal, and what showed up was poorly finished, needing a lot of deburring and spotfaces applied so the action screws wouldn't be seated on one edge of the heads. Totally underwhelming, and I could have made a similar part from scratch in only a little more time just starting with a piece of aluminum I have sitting under my work bench. The DIP aluminum trigger guard was nice. There's some guy on RFC who charges about $50, if I remember right, for about $3 worth of springs and widgets, and the Savage guys jump in line to pay it for their $200 rifles. That seriously bugs me. By the time I was done, the money and time involved just weren't worth it to me.

In contrast, you pretty much take a CZ out of the box, clean it and shoot it. There may be some slicking of the action to be done, but the parts are nicely made. The #144 spring costs like $0.87 or so at my local Ace Hardware. CZs don't start out embarrassing, and you don't have to replace a bunch of stuff with overpriced disappointment.

J&P has some weird coding on the site that I've never seen before. You can only go in from the main page and navigate from there. The link above is the correct URL for the CZ stuff, but copying from the page I'm looking at and pasting that address into another tab yields a blank page. So does attempting to open the page from the main page in a new tab. So just go in the front door:

https://www.jnpgunsprings.com/

I've read that the Savage B22 series of rifles has improved fit and finish but you make a compelling argument for a CZ.

[mrozowjj]

So I was looking up 10/22 barrels and Kidd has a guarantee of 0.5" at 50 yards with match ammo which got me asking what are the factory specs for some of these other guns so I started emailing companies to see what they say I can expect. Savage says 1" @ 100 yards for a bull barrel model or 1.5" @ 100 yards for a thin profile barrel with their rimfire bolt guns; the internet is divided on this some say that's about right and others say that's optimistic and it's still just as hit or miss as everything else in this price point. Ruger says 1.5" @ 50 yards for their American Rimfire bolt guns and 2.5" @ 50 yards for their Ruger 10/22. CZ says 1.5" at 50 yards (It might be meters actually now that I think about it.)

So that got me thinking it might be cheaper to buy a used Ruger 10/22 and buy a Kidd barrel for it and get a semi that can outperform any of the bolt guns in this price point. I pointed this out to a friend and he told me I should look into a dedicated 22 AR upper mentioning Nordic and JP so I contacted them and I got a response.

Nordic customer service rep said that with his personal upper he's getting half in groups at 50 yards and he expects it will do MOA at 100 yards but he personally hasn't shot it that far out because of the optic he has on his gun.

JP said they guarantee all of their rifles will shoot MOA but they pointed out that rimfire ammo is notoriously more finicky so they can't guarantee that with all ammo but if I'm using match stuff like Eley it should be one ragged hole at 50 yards.

While I would love to get a JP it's a bit outside my budget for this project... but the Nordic upper is right inside of it and I already have a lower lying and a bunch of BDM magazines lying around doing nothing... so now I am thinking that I just might get a Nordic upper. It's not a bolt gun but the only reason I was looking at a bolt gun was because I believed it was going to be the best performance in terms of accuracy. If I can get a semi-auto with MOA performance I don't see much of a point in getting a 22 bolt gun anymore. Though admittedly if you didn't already have an AR lower or an AR you could swap out with the bolt gun cost would still be lower.

[BN]

I feel kind of bad since I recommended a CZ and now you aren't happy with yours. Before you throw any more money at this, would you try and shoot your CZ with a scope?

Companies can guarantee anything they want, but there are a lot of variables in shooting precision groups. I have a 10-22 with a bull barrel that guarantees a .5" group at 50 yards and has a target to prove it. But getting the gun to shoot that size group includes things like ammo, scope power, stock bedding, stability of the bench, type of bags or shooting rest, wind, etc.

[littlejerry]

I'm really surprised to hear the sights are bad. What makes them nearly unusable? What kind of sights are you accustomed to?

[mrozowjj]

I feel kind of bad since I recommended a CZ and now you aren't happy with yours. Before you throw any more money at this, would you try and shoot your CZ with a scope?

Companies can guarantee anything they want, but there are a lot of variables in shooting precision groups. I have a 10-22 with a bull barrel that guarantees a .5" group at 50 yards and has a target to prove it. But getting the gun to shoot that size group includes things like ammo, scope power, stock bedding, stability of the bench, type of bags or shooting rest, wind, etc.

Not your fault at all. That said I am a pariah at the rimfirecentral forum because I dared to ask if the CZs are as accurate as they claim they are because the results of my targets when I used iron sights were less than impressive.

I guess my point earlier was I understand that I will be the limiting factor in just about any gun I buy but when I have 3 bolt gun companies saying the best they can do is 1.5" at 50 yards and I have a company that makes an AR upper telling me then can do 0.5" @ 50 for only slightly more money out of the gate why not take that option?


I'm really surprised to hear the sights are bad. What makes them nearly unusable? What kind of sights are you accustomed to?

Imagine AK sights. However the rear sight on the CZ Training rifle is further from your eye than it is on an AK so some mixture of the ratio between that distance, the distance from the front sight to the rear sight in addition to the width of the front sight blade and the width of the rear sight notch in addition to the shallow depth of the rear sight notch made it hard for my eye to line up a shot. Basically while trying to focus on the front sight my eye would loose focus and start focusing on the rear sight so the front sight had a slight haze around it the entire time I shot with it. Possible it's just my eyes; I did have laser eye surgery 12 years ago but either way they just didn't work for me.

I'm more accustomed to pistol sights but on a rifle I mainly use AR sights; aperture rear and regular front sight post. Hell ironically the stock sights on my Scorpion were fucking great. I had this one 22 rifle once upon a time that had this great sight with a circle front sight and a aperture rear. That was the most intuitive sighting system I've ever seen. I don't know why more companies don't do that. Then again it was a rifle from the 40s so that's probably why.

[littlejerry]

Not your fault at all. That said I am a pariah at the rimfirecentral forum because I dared to ask if the CZs are as accurate as they claim they are because the results of my targets when I used iron sights were less than impressive.

I guess my point earlier was I understand that I will be the limiting factor in just about any gun I buy but when I have 3 bolt gun companies saying the best they can do is 1.5" at 50 yards and I have a company that makes an AR upper telling me then can do 0.5" @ 50 for only slightly more money out of the gate why not take that option?



Imagine AK sights. However the rear sight on the CZ Training rifle is further from your eye than it is on an AK so some mixture of the ratio between that distance, the distance from the front sight to the rear sight in addition to the width of the front sight blade and the width of the rear sight notch in addition to the shallow depth of the rear sight notch made it hard for my eye to line up a shot. Basically while trying to focus on the front sight my eye would loose focus and start focusing on the rear sight so the front sight had a slight haze around it the entire time I shot with it. Possible it's just my eyes; I did have laser eye surgery 12 years ago but either way they just didn't work for me.

I'm more accustomed to pistol sights but on a rifle I mainly use AR sights; aperture rear and regular front sight post. Hell ironically the stock sights on my Scorpion were fucking great. I had this one 22 rifle once upon a time that had this great sight with a circle front sight and a aperture rear. That was the most intuitive sighting system I've ever seen. I don't know why more companies don't do that. Then again it was a rifle from the 40s so that's probably why.

I think what you are describing is the challenge of using tangent sights, not something unique to the CZ. Do you have any experience shooting milsurp rifles like Mausers, 1903s, or Enfields? I have a 452 Lux and the sights are almost identical to my Sako M39.

Tangent sights may not agree with your eyes but they are certainly capable of high levels of accuracy. If you prefer apertures then there are a few options for you to bolt onto the CZ. I ended up putting a Tech Sight kit on my 452 lux because I wanted a trainer for my AR. I was coming from the opposite direction where I had learned on tangent sights and the wide open picture of apertures felt very imprecise.

Iron sight shooting is difficult. I would experiment with target types to find one that agrees with your eyes. I'd also experiment with ammo. SK makes some great rimfire ammo. My 452 seems to shoot Geco and SK ammo exceptionally well.

[mrozowjj]

I think what you are describing is the challenge of using tangent sights, not something unique to the CZ. Do you have any experience shooting milsurp rifles like Mausers, 1903s, or Enfields? I have a 452 Lux and the sights are almost identical to my Sako M39.

Tangent sights may not agree with your eyes but they are certainly capable of high levels of accuracy. If you prefer apertures then there are a few options for you to bolt onto the CZ. I ended up putting a Tech Sight kit on my 452 lux because I wanted a trainer for my AR. I was coming from the opposite direction where I had learned on tangent sights and the wide open picture of apertures felt very imprecise.

Iron sight shooting is difficult. I would experiment with target types to find one that agrees with your eyes. I'd also experiment with ammo. SK makes some great rimfire ammo. My 452 seems to shoot Geco and SK ammo exceptionally well.

I've shot a few Mausers and I had a K31 Swiss that I recall shooting well once upon a time, but that was before I was serious about shooting so I don't know how good I was actually doing vs my memory of the event.

I recall liking those sights far more. Same for AKs and well any rifle I can recall using with tangents prior to this experience. But again that might just be memory.

I don't think my eyesight is bad; I had lasek 12 years ago, I've been 20/20 ever since. I'm 34 now so I'd like to think I've got more time before they turn to shit but I've never been a lucky man so I suppose it's possible.

Regardless I've already sold the gun. Seems silly to get emotionally about steel and wood but it's also a hobby; one I'd like to enjoy and I was soured enough in the experience thus far that I thought I perhaps I was better off walking away from it and putting off my 22 precision rifle project for a bit. Shooting (rifles especially) is something I do to relax and decompress so when it begins to add stress to my life I have to step back for a moment. I've stopped shooting IDPA and USPSA entirely because my stress about trying to do good had completely removed any joy I once had about the sport. I don't know if that makes sense.

[SecondsCount]

You can talk all you want about MOA with a 22LR but the reality is that at 100 yards, or even 50 yards, wind is a huge factor. 1 MPH of full value wind can push your bullet as much as 0.3MOA.

I have shot some 0.5 MOA groups with my CZ at 50 yards but the conditions were indoors with SK Standard Plus.

Don't discount things like lock time and triggers when it comes to bolt actions. Shooting an AR at a precsion level can become very frustrating if you have difficulty mastering the trigger.

[mrozowjj]

You can talk all you want about MOA with a 22LR but the reality is that at 100 yards, or even 50 yards, wind is a huge factor. 1 MPH of full value wind can push your bullet as much as 0.3MOA.

I have shot some 0.5 MOA groups with my CZ at 50 yards but the conditions were indoors with SK Standard Plus.

Don't discount things like lock time and triggers when it comes to bolt actions. Shooting an AR at a precsion level can become very frustrating if you have difficulty mastering the trigger.

I'm going to ask this and hope it doesn't come off as sarcastic because I genuinely have no idea what it has to do with things; what does lock time have to do with it?

[SecondsCount]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/locktime.htm

It is magnified in a 22LR because the bullet is moving about 1/3 the speed of a 223.

[Irelander]

I vote for a CZ. Mine is a 452 with a 16" threaded barrel. I put the Brooks trigger kit in it and it now has an amazing but safe trigger. Doesn't have iron sights but it is one accurate rifle. Almost too much fun with a suppressor.

18686

[mrozowjj]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/locktime.htm

It is magnified in a 22LR because the bullet is moving about 1/3 the speed of a 223.

I'm still not sure I entirely understand. I thought locktime was how long the bolt/breach remained locked to the chamber of the particular gun. I don't know what it has to do with the trigger or how a muzzleloader taking longer to fire relates to a modern rimfire or centerfire gun.

Fun and completely useless fact; I grew up living next to the father of the pistol smith Jack Weigand mentioned in the article. I was too young to really be into guns and only figured it out and put two and two together years after I'd moved away.

[BN]

http://www.chuckhawks.com/locktime.htm

It is magnified in a 22LR because the bullet is moving about 1/3 the speed of a 223.

That's a good article.

[SecondsCount]

"Lock-time" is defined as the "time interval between sear release and the firing-pin striking the primer".

Add in the additional time that it takes for the bullet to exit the barrel in a 22 LR scenario, and it makes it more difficult to be consistent from shot to shot.

[mrozowjj]

Add in the additional time that it takes for the bullet to exit the barrel in a 22 LR scenario, and it makes it more difficult to be consistent from shot to shot.

You're talking about fractions of a second. Is it really that important? If it is why bother having a longer rifle barrel?

[peterb]

You're talking about fractions of a second. Is it really that important? If it is why bother having a longer rifle barrel?

Target shooters have thought it was important for a long time. That's why you see lightweight hammers, firing pins, etc. -- all intended to reduce lock time.

Longer barrels will allow high-pressure cartridges to produce more bullet velocity. If the gases are still expanding the bullet has longer to keep accelerating. With the limited powder in a .22LR, there's no reason to go much longer than 18" for best velocity.

Other reasons for a longer barrel include reduced noise. A longer barrel allows the pressure to drop more before the bullet exits the muzzle.

[mrozowjj]

Despite all of my research and math and etc etc a large part of me still has the itch for a bolt 22 that I don't think a semi auto AR can really fill. I don't know if it makes any sense at all but there it is so I'm back to hemming and hawing over those. Part of me thinks the Ruger 10/22 might be the way to go too. I guess the point is I'm still undecided.

I really really wish the Ruger American Rimfire had the ability to share barrels between it and the Ruger 10/22. That would be great.

[littlejerry]

10/22s are great hobby guns. Personally I'd stick with a bolt or lever in 22lr. I've never known a semi auto to run reliably for any real duration.

Based on your frustration with the CZ I'd also recommend you dial back your accuracy expectations... A lot.

And there is nothing wrong with wanting a 22. My favorite rifle is a 22. The rifles I shoot just for fun are 22s.

[mrozowjj]

Based on your frustration with the CZ I'd also recommend you dial back your accuracy expectations... A lot.


That makes me not want to bother with 22 at all.

[littlejerry]

That makes me not want to bother with 22 at all.

Try 17hmr then. Not as cost effective but a much better 100 yard round.

[mrozowjj]

Try 17hmr then. Not as cost effective but a much better 100 yard round.

17 hmr has no appeal to me. It cost as much as 9mm; at that point I might as well stick to shooting my 9mm carbine at 100.

[Wyoming Shooter]

Our local club (Lander, WY) has a 50 yard .22 bench rest match every Monday. 42 scores were shot yesterday. The top 10 scores yesterday were shot using the following rifles:

Kimber - 2
Remington 40X - 4
Anschutz - 2
CZ 452 - 1
Remington 37 - 1

Rifles finishing outside the top 10 were (in rough order of popularity): CZ, Sako, Savage, Ruger 10-22. I just started shooting the match this summer. I've learned much about doping the wind but, have much left to learn. Best, ELN.

[mrozowjj]

Does Kimber make 22 LR rifles?

[Wyoming Shooter]

Does Kimber make 22 LR rifles?

The Model 82. I believe it has been discontinued.

[SD]

Browning made a Model 52. It can still be found online NIB for $200. If you want a bolt action .22 that will shoot tight groups this is it.

[mrozowjj]

Browning made a Model 52. It can still be found online NIB for $200. If you want a bolt action .22 that will shoot tight groups this is it.

I'm doing some googling... those are interesting looking guns. How hard is it to find magazines for them?

[jeep45238]

Despite all of my research and math and etc etc a large part of me still has the itch for a bolt 22 that I don't think a semi auto AR can really fill. I don't know if it makes any sense at all but there it is so I'm back to hemming and hawing over those. Part of me thinks the Ruger 10/22 might be the way to go too. I guess the point is I'm still undecided.

I really really wish the Ruger American Rimfire had the ability to share barrels between it and the Ruger 10/22. That would be great.

Years ago I took the bolt from my 10/22 and radiused the back of it where the hammer cams, until the thing would run on subsonic ammo. Combined with the standard trigger pack work, factory springs, and a 20 inch Green Mountain barrel with Tech Sights, the thing blasts clothes pins at 50 yards without any problem. 200 yard head shots are boring once you know the drop for the ammo. All work is done with a basic USGI sling, and will do 2MOA with the cheapest stuff you can find. It also runs, and runs, and runs, despite no maintenence.

The MOA gets larger the longer the distance - wind messes with it badly. 40 grains going a fraction of the speed of a 55 grain .223 - not much can be done besides shoot reduced sized targets closer in, or go indoors. Most of my 25m shots with it are 1MOA for the group not counting fliers (called).

Popular things are popular for a reason.

[BN]

Browning made a Model 52. It can still be found online NIB for $200. If you want a bolt action .22 that will shoot tight groups this is it.

There are several on Gunbroker with a reserve. Buy now is $1295.

[SD]

Very true, I believe the rifles in that price range are the safe queens, they had been produced by "MIROKU" of Japan. Have a Winchester from 1995, it is super sweet. Not sure when but Browning made a run of less expensive 52's, they sell in the range of $200+. These are not safe queens but for a cheap bolt .22 not bad at all. Moving up in price $350+ I would look at C-Z. $500.+ Anschutz. I have to stop now because I've been wanting a Buckmark .22, rifle for ever, and hanging out here is wearing me down.:)
There are several on Gunbroker with a reserve. Buy now is $1295.

[mrozowjj]

Years ago I took the bolt from my 10/22 and radiused the back of it where the hammer cams, until the thing would run on subsonic ammo. Combined with the standard trigger pack work, factory springs, and a 20 inch Green Mountain barrel with Tech Sights, the thing blasts clothes pins at 50 yards without any problem. 200 yard head shots are boring once you know the drop for the ammo. All work is done with a basic USGI sling, and will do 2MOA with the cheapest stuff you can find. It also runs, and runs, and runs, despite no maintenence.

The MOA gets larger the longer the distance - wind messes with it badly. 40 grains going a fraction of the speed of a 55 grain .223 - not much can be done besides shoot reduced sized targets closer in, or go indoors. Most of my 25m shots with it are 1MOA for the group not counting fliers (called).

Popular things are popular for a reason.

You sir are speaking to my logic and my wallet. Every time I think "Man it'd be fun to have a 22 bolt gun." I look at the prices and the entry level 10/22 is cheaper and I keep thinking there is a reason that every other maker out there has 1 subforum on rimfirecentral and there are 12 sub forums dedicated to just the 10/22.

[David S.]

Necropost. I'm playing around with picking up a rimfire bolt gun.

What's everyone's thoughts on the CZ 457 compared to it's predecessors? I'm also looking at the Ruger American Rimfire. specifically the suppressor ready models.

I acknowledge the CZ is likely a better gun. . .but the Ruger takes 10/22 mags, which is nice.

I want Appleseed level accuracy. It'll be something the kids (now 3 years old) will grow up with.

[OlongJohnson]

I think the 457 is a better gun than the earlier models. CZ traditionalists used to talk about superior fit and finish of the 452s, but 455s are switch-barrel and can be upgraded to match-grade barrels without involving a gunsmith. And a gunsmith who knows what he's doing can do better with them by fitting the barrel to the receiver ID. The 457s have that advantage, plus a safety that works the right direction and the reduced bolt lift.

Personally, I have a 512 Carbine that I like for my SA .22LR and a 455 Shamrock Edition that I will keep forever, or until my godson is old enough to pass it on to him.

I've sold several 452s and picked up a T1x in HMR this year. Have an FV-SR that I need to fiddle around with a little more, but will probably eventually replace with a 16.5-inch T1x. My CF rifles are Tikkas, so having everything feel and work the same in the same stocks makes sense.

I compared the T1x to a CZ 457 At-One. I like the Tikka stock, obviously. I didn't really get along with the grip shape on the At-One.

A 457 Scout would be a great pick for getting them started early, and can be put in a standard stock later as they grow into it. Some grownups prefer that setup for a woods-walking rifle anyway. It's also threaded, which goes well with the shorter barrel. https://gun.deals/search/apachesolr_search/806703023359

Any CZ is a much, much nicer rifle than any Ruger American.

I really like these scope mounnts: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Scope-Rings-11mm-and-3-8-Dovetail-fit-Anschutz-CZ-452-455-457-1-30mm/264268435836

[Borderland]

I have a CZ 455 with a high end 4X Leupold scope on it. I shoot it at 50, 100 and 200. I screwed up and didn't get a mildot reticle for 100 and 200. I never realized that you could be accurate with any 22LR out to 200 but it's easy with a CZ or other quality rifle and good glass. I have more fun with that rifle than any I own. I may still break down and get a fixed power mil dot down the road. My experience with Ruger is they're barrels aren't that great. Lots of after market out there if you want to fix that.

[David S.]

Any CZ is a much, much nicer rifle than any Ruger American.

I really like these scope mounnts: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Scope-Rings-11mm-and-3-8-Dovetail-fit-Anschutz-CZ-452-455-457-1-30mm/264268435836

Thanks for the comments.

A Scout won't fit me, so I'll probably go with a full size synthetic American for myself and the Scout in a couple years when they're ready.

Thinking about a non-illuminated VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20 in the 0.5" rings you suggested.

[OlongJohnson]

Another good option for a first rifle is the Marlin 15YN. It's the "real" Marlin action, so all the trigger unsuckifying stuff you'd do to any Marlin rimfire bolt gun is applicable. The stock is tiny. It's a single-shot receiver. And they're really cheap. The one in my safe cost about $150 shipped from GB.

Flat smokes the Crickett/Rascal nonsense.

[farscott]

A .22 bolt-action rifle with good iron sights pretty much implies pre-owned as most new rifles have no sights and the ones with good sights cost good money. My personal choice was a 1941 Winchester 75 Sporter with a Lyman 57ES sight. Cost was $550 last year. Deals are available but patience is required. I would watch this page: https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/vbclassified.php?do=category&categoryid=5

[revchuck38]

I picked up a Remington 514 (June '61 date code) a couple of weeks ago that I was planning on giving to my grandson. I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but it might well turn into letting him use it until he can hit what he's aiming at, and then I'll give him my 10/22.

[mrozowjj]

Necropost. I'm playing around with picking up a rimfire bolt gun.

What's everyone's thoughts on the CZ 457 compared to it's predecessors? I'm also looking at the Ruger American Rimfire. specifically the suppressor ready models.

I acknowledge the CZ is likely a better gun. . .but the Ruger takes 10/22 mags, which is nice.

I want Appleseed level accuracy. It'll be something the kids (now 3 years old) will grow up with.

The irony of this thread coming back from the dead is I now have 2 10/22s and zero 22lr bolt guns.

The CZ might technically be a better gun in terms of manufacturing but the Ruger 10/22 does everything I wanted a bolt gun to do only cheaper. The one 10/22 I have is a target model that I got with the intention that I could swap the barrel if I needed to but the factory barrel gets me 1.5" groups at 100 yards which is more than good enough for me and the other is a standard gun with Tech Sights I threw on with the intention of using it for appleseed and I can put them all in one hole at 25 yards so I have zero to complain about.

The CZ might be better made and might look nicer but from a pure function stand point it's really hard to go wrong with the 10/22.

If you want to teach him patience you can always install one of these on the gun:
http://www.colossic.com/defenseproductboltlock.html

[farscott]

The irony of this thread coming back from the dead is I now have 2 10/22s and zero 22lr bolt guns.

The CZ might technically be a better gun in terms of manufacturing but the Ruger 10/22 does everything I wanted a bolt gun to do only cheaper. The one 10/22 I have is a target model that I got with the intention that I could swap the barrel if I needed to but the factory barrel gets me 1.5" groups at 100 yards which is more than good enough for me and the other is a standard gun with Tech Sights I threw on with the intention of using it for appleseed and I can put them all in one hole at 25 yards so I have zero to complain about.

The CZ might be better made and might look nicer but from a pure function stand point it's really hard to go wrong with the 10/22.

If you want to teach him patience you can always install one of these on the gun:
http://www.colossic.com/defenseproductboltlock.html

There is nothing wrong with 10/22 rifles. I have more than a few, set up for everything from plinking to small-game hunting to bench shooting. Most of mine have Volquartsen barrels, but I have two Tactical Solutions guns that I use for small game due to being easier to tote. One has a Leupold FX1 4X and the other has a Leupold M8-8X with the adjustable objective. I also have a Ruger American Rimfire Target topped with a Leupold 4-12X40 and threaded for a suppressor. A suppressed bolt action is "Hollywood" quiet with subsonic ammo and this rifle is fun from the bench.

There are no bad choices here.

[BN]

.
I have a CZ 455 Varmint and I like it a lot.


A lot has changed since I wrote this 3 years ago. :) I still have the CZ but it sits in the back of my safe. After spending a lot of money on 22 rimfires, I would now recommend a 10-22 for an inexpensive 22 rifle. I now have a 10-22 that I shoot out to 350 yards and it isn't as accurate as my more expensive rifles, but it does a very good job. I have no experience with Appleseed but I've read that a 10-22 is ideal. Plus the aftermarket for 10-22s is extensive.

[David S.]

I have the semi auto .22lr category satisfied with a M&P15-22 and a Savage 64F.

I ended up going with a CZ 457 Sythetic SR (https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-457-american-synthetic/), a Leupold VX-Freedom 1.5-4x20 (https://www.eurooptic.com/Leupold-VX-Freedom-15-4x20-Matte-Pig-Plex-174177.aspx) scope on Talley low rings.

[awp_101]

With my weakness for rimfires, I never should have opened this thread...:rolleyes:

[ssb]

With the sort of precision rimfire discussion going, what about optics?

I've looked at the Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25, Viper PST2 3-15, and Athalon Ares and Midas Tacs. I think I want a tree reticle, but I also have no frame of reference for magnified optics beyond the ACOG I once owned. Are there other options I should be considering? I'd like to keep things sub-1K (and preferably more like 800). My expected ranges are 50-200yds.

[EricP]

With the sort of precision rimfire discussion going, what about optics?

I've looked at the Vortex Strike Eagle 5-25, Viper PST2 3-15, and Athalon Ares and Midas Tacs. I think I want a tree reticle, but I also have no frame of reference for magnified optics beyond the ACOG I once owned. Are there other options I should be considering? I'd like to keep things sub-1K (and preferably more like 800). My expected ranges are 50-200yds.

I have a SWFA SS 3-15 on a Tikka T1X. It does not have a tree type reticle, but the turrets track well and the glass is pretty good. Price was $700. It is FFP and the reticle is difficult to see at low magnification, but I find myself at the higher end of the magnification range generally.