"Carry 22 Mag Revover in Pocket & Shoot Thru It . . . "

[SamAdams]

I'm not sure what category this subject belongs. I'll keep an eye out for it if it's moved somewhere else.

A person I know is interested in getting a handgun for concealed carry. He's a professional. He has no experience with firearms. Watching various news stories has convinced him that getting his carry license & handgun is a good idea.
This man's brother-in-law suggested he get a hammerless 22 mag revolver so that he could shoot it through his pocket as his first concealed carry gun. :rolleyes: I was about to write a reply, but thought I'd first get the input of you at PF.

BTW - for those people who ask "What carry gun should I get ?" and who really don't want to be bombarded with a lotta gun-geek talk, I usually answer "Glock 19 Gen 4". If its likely to be kept in a drawer at home, and just sit there for years, I usually answer "38 revolver - check out a S&W K-frame". -- If they have special circumstances or conditions to deal with, we can discuss things more in depth. A lotta people are overwhelmed if given too much of a gun 'data dump' too early, IMO.

Thanks

[Peally]

The man's brother in law is mentally not all there. He would make an excellent gun store/show customer.

That is all :)

[Tamara]

More people should actually try shooting through a pocket/purse a few times before recommending it. It's messier than most people think and has a fair chance of rendering even a shrouded hammer revolver into a single shot.

[blues]

More people should actually try shooting through a pocket/purse a few times before recommending it. It's messier than most people think and has a fair chance of rendering even a shrouded hammer revolver into a single shot.

Let alone setting your pants on fire. (Not in a good way.)

[Camovan]

More people should actually try shooting through a pocket/purse a few times before recommending it. It's messier than most people think and has a fair chance of rendering even a shrouded hammer revolver into a single shot.

Thats a great idea. I have a couple of old winter coats that I have set aside to get rid of, I think I will try using them to train with instead. I have been in a questionable situation once or twice where I considered moving from holster to coat pocket temporarily but ultimately didn't do it. I am not sure that shooting through the clothing would have been my option had I done so but it is an interesting thought. Any one have tips for training safely/best practices (or just don't) for "shooting through the pocket"? This will not be primary carry method obviously but seemed like an appropriate thread to ask.

[Hambo]

I'd start him out with some reading material. Something to help him figure out if he can nut up and actually shoot somebody. If after due consideration of that reality and the law, worry about the gun.

[Kyle Reese]

I'll pose the inevitable question.

Why not just buy a Glock 19, belt / accessories, ammo and tuition for a training course from a reputable instructor?

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[StraitR]

Let alone setting your pants on fire. (Not in a good way.)

I think we need a thread on the good way. Just sayin'.


As far as first time firearm owners wanting a gun to carry, my suggestion has been buy something from a well known manufacturer in a size that you'll reliably carry. Smaller guns and calibers below 9mm have their well documented downsides, but sometimes their one and only positive attribute is the one that matters most, size. Bigger is better, but not if it's left at home. Tom's student stats speak for themselves.

In other words, first comes reliability of the firearm, next comes making sure you have it with you, no excuses. If I could get my wife to even periodically practice with but constantly carry the LCP in my safe, I'd be a happy man. No dice.

[Duelist]

More people should actually try shooting through a pocket/purse a few times before recommending it. It's messier than most people think and has a fair chance of rendering even a shrouded hammer revolver into a single shot.

Challenge accepted. :)

[StraitR]

Challenge accepted. :)

This requires video documentation.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/05/02/tfbtv-shooting-revolver-jacket-pocket-actually-work/

Revolver works, POS semi doesn't. IIRC

[Irelander]

Interesting to see but not surprising. Interesting LCRx. A little bling but I always liked the look of copper.

[Lester Polfus]

More people should actually try shooting through a pocket/purse a few times before recommending it. It's messier than most people think and has a fair chance of rendering even a shrouded hammer revolver into a single shot.

This. Your average Goodwill has a good selection of tan windbreakers, most of which probably belonged to older guys who shuffled off this mortal coil. A twenty will get you at least a couple to experiment with.

[blues]

This. Your average Goodwill has a good selection of tan windbreakers, most of which probably belonged to older guys who shuffled off this mortal coil. A twenty will get you at least a couple to experiment with.

Just be careful so you don't join 'em. ;)

[SeriousStudent]

This. Your average Goodwill has a good selection of tan windbreakers, most of which probably belonged to older guys who shuffled off this mortal coil. A twenty will get you at least a couple to experiment with.

Indeed. They also have some old leather jackets that you can practice blade work on. Stuff the sleeve with a small roll of paper towels and get to work.

I would warn you that when launching a 135-grain Gold Dot out of a 642 through a nylon jacket pocket, the burning nylon will get on your hand. It will burn and you'll get a small oval scar on your knuckle.

Aloe vera helps with the burn. Not testing every theory you run across helps more.

[JAD]

Challenge accepted. :)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170616/9f255891d96763d60950f129c060c5b1.jpeg

[GJM]

Clearly a case where the caliber is inadequate. I would recommend he upgrade to a .380, and wear pants thinner than denim.

[Lester Polfus]

He could skip the .22 Mag and go straight to a Judge...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

There are respected folk, some on p-f, or known to us - who will carry a 22 mag J frame. Not me - my J frame is 642 or 432 for a six shot 32 HR mag.

[SJC3081]

I remember in the 1980s Massad Ayoob had many articles in Combat Handguns mag about shooting through your pockets with the JFrame. He also in the late 90s recommended carrying two cell phones with different carriers so you could always have a signal for 911 calls. I guess the OP friend has been reading to many Combat Handguns articles from the 90s.

[Hambo]

Aloe vera helps with the burn. Not testing every theory you run across helps more.

It could be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.

[blues]

It could be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.

Does that fall into the "do as I say and not as I do" category?

[Hambo]

Does that fall into the "do as I say and not as I do" category?

Or the "hold my beer" or "hey, watch this" categories.

[Rex G]

I remember in the 1980s Massad Ayoob had many articles in Combat Handguns mag about shooting through your pockets with the JFrame. He also in the late 90s recommended carrying two cell phones with different carriers so you could always have a signal for 911 calls. I guess the OP friend has been reading to many Combat Handguns articles from the 90s.

Mas was not the only one writing about experimentation with shooting with pocketed J-snubs. Of course, the way I see it, a shrouded/concealed hammer snubby is also nice for shooting from other constrained environments, such as may be encountered during a FUT, when a fold of clothing may produce a temporary, virtual pocket. (Personally, I am OK using SP101 revolvers, but do have an appreciation for the concealed-hammer Centennial snub, for the FUT environment, and have a 642-derived PC snub-gun.)

Not so long ago, I regularly carried two mobile phones, one Sprint and one Verizon, in order to be able to call from places I frequented, even within the small city in which I live, which is surrounded by Houston. Even after the local gaps were finally covered, the need was not totally eliminated until Verizon bought Alltel, at which time I dropped Sprint. (FWIW, Sprint's network went down, hard, during Tropical Storm Allison, in 2001, and stayed down for quite a while.)

As recently as a year or two ago, Verizon had plenty of gaps in service, in southern Texas, in areas we have considered living after retirement, that are covered by AT&T. So, guess who is now using two mobile phones, one Verizon, and one AT&T? I do not always carry both of them; one is basically a house phone most of the time.

As for .22 WMR, well, I would think it no worse-performing, on target, than .32 ACP and some of the other .32 options, a potential benefit for those of us with aching, aging hands. All of these cartridges make a little holes.

Back to the FUT for a moment; I had to fight a fool inside a car this past Sunday morning. It did not go to guns, but he finally did get darted, and took the five-second ride on the electronic express, which allowed the sergeant outside the car to pull the fool out, and get the cuffs on. No, nothing was fired from inside any pockets, but this served as a reminder that the FUT is not something that only happens during an ECQC class. Again, the relevance to this thread topic is that the conditions during the FUT can produce conditions equivalent to firing from within a pocket.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I'm not sure what category this subject belongs. I'll keep an eye out for it if it's moved somewhere else.

A person I know is interested in getting a handgun for concealed carry. He's a professional. He has no experience with firearms. Watching various news stories has convinced him that getting his carry license & handgun is a good idea.
This man's brother-in-law suggested he get a hammerless 22 mag revolver so that he could shoot it through his pocket as his first concealed carry gun. :rolleyes: I was about to write a reply, but thought I'd first get the input of you at PF.

BTW - for those people who ask "What carry gun should I get ?" and who really don't want to be bombarded with a lotta gun-geek talk, I usually answer "Glock 19 Gen 4". If its likely to be kept in a drawer at home, and just sit there for years, I usually answer "38 revolver - check out a S&W K-frame". -- If they have special circumstances or conditions to deal with, we can discuss things more in depth. A lotta people are overwhelmed if given too much of a gun 'data dump' too early, IMO.

Thanks

Gift him a copy of, "Fighting Smarter," by Tom Givens. Let him discover a foundation for software before he makes any hasty decisions on hardware.

.22 revolvers, although workable under a narrow band of circumstances, I feel are best handled by experts, or at least a solid basis of training and experience to maximize its effectiveness.


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[SamAdams]

I don't think I'd recommend a 22mag revolver as a primary carry for an able bodied man as his first concealed carry gun. I figure the G19 and good training is a good way to start. As he gains more experience with day-to-day concealed carry , he can make any needed adjustments.

I am interested in hearing more from those who have personally carried a 22mag or 32 revolver, or know someone knowledgeable who did so. Why was that chosen rather than a 38 ?

Thanks


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[EricP]

This. Your average Goodwill has a good selection of tan windbreakers, most of which probably belonged to older guys who shuffled off this mortal coil. A twenty will get you at least a couple to experiment with.

A sacrificial coat or jacket was part of the required Michael deBethencourt's class. IIRC, it was suggested that it not be a synthetic material that would melt or burn (rapidly).

[SeriousStudent]

It could be that the purpose of your life is to serve as a warning to others.

If you are referring to my ex, that is undoubtedly true.

[RevolverRob]

More people should actually try shooting through a pocket/purse a few times before recommending it. It's messier than most people think and has a fair chance of rendering even a shrouded hammer revolver into a single shot.


This. Your average Goodwill has a good selection of tan windbreakers, most of which probably belonged to older guys who shuffled off this mortal coil. A twenty will get you at least a couple to experiment with.


Indeed. They also have some old leather jackets that you can practice blade work on. Stuff the sleeve with a small roll of paper towels and get to work.

I would warn you that when launching a 135-grain Gold Dot out of a 642 through a nylon jacket pocket, the burning nylon will get on your hand. It will burn and you'll get a small oval scar on your knuckle.

Aloe vera helps with the burn. Not testing every theory you run across helps more.

I can confirm that nylon will burn. If you fire off a 158-grain +P LHP out of a J-frame while in a wind-breaker pocket.

If you're lucky you only get some nylon on your hand.

If you're unlucky the whole damn windbreaker will go up in flames.

I was unlucky.

Nothing like doing the stop-drop-n-roll on the range with a J-frame in your pocket...

[Duelist]

I can confirm that nylon will burn. If you fire off a 158-grain +P LHP out of a J-frame while in a wind-breaker pocket.

If you're lucky you only get some nylon on your hand.

If you're unlucky the whole damn windbreaker will go up in flames.

I was unlucky.

Nothing like doing the stop-drop-n-roll on the range with a J-frame in your pocket...

Whoa.

I'll be checking fiber content before trying this...

[RevolverRob]

Whoa.

I'll be checking fiber content before trying this...

Do, polyester-nylon blends are really flammable.

Also, I'm kind of kidding about stop-drop-n-roll. The windbreaker did actually catch on fire, but I took it off and stomped the fire out. It wasn't so fast I needed a fire extinguisher, but I've seen polyester garments catch on fire pretty fast and it sticks when it burns (as nylon does as well). None of this changes the fact that shooting a gun through a pocket - while a potentially viable, if extreme, solution - is not to be taken lightly. And I recommend shooting through a wool/canvas/cotton/leather jacket, not nylon, if at all possible...

[Lester Polfus]

Wowsers. In my case, the worst I got was a little smoldering.

With one windbreaker, I cranked off five rounds just fine. The second, the material of the pocket was thinner and looser I guess, because it actualy got sucked into the space between the cylinder and top strap, after the first shot and bound things up. I then had a loaded gun stuck inside the pocket of a jacket I was wearing. With some care and my EMT shears I managed to rectify that, but it was an eye opener.

[Ed L]

Is he talking about firing from within a jacket pocket or a pants pocket?

A pants pocket offers no flexibility to point the gun from within.

I did a class in 2003 or 2004 that was part of a Snubbie Summit put on by Andy Stanford at the American Police Hall of Fame & Museum in Titusvile, FL. They actually have an awesome indoor range. There were different hour and two hour long classes given over a two day period.

I took one on firing the snubbie from the pocket taught by Massad Ayoob. For the class we were instructed to bring an old coat or jacket that we didn't need--or buy one from goodwill or the salvation army.

We did not have anyone setting themself or the coat on fire so they needed to be blasted by an extinguisher, but some briefly caught on fire around the pocket.

The point was driven home that this was a limited use technique for very close range since you are very limited as to where you can point the gun since though you are firing from a retention position that is restricted in movement by the coat or jacket. Then there are issues of even if you are carrying it with a pocket holster in the coat pocket of the gun staying secure--and what happens if you take the jacket off because you are indoors? If you don't keep it with you, you are leaving a gun unattended. Also, there is more of a chance of a gun carried in this manner slipping out when you do normal things--like take the jacket off in your car because it is too warm.

I would rather just have my hand already on the snubbie in my pants pocket and be ready to draw and shoot.

[Nephrology]

Also, I'm kind of kidding about stop-drop-n-roll. The windbreaker did actually catch on fire, but I took it off and stomped the fire out. It wasn't so fast I needed a fire extinguisher, but I've seen polyester garments catch on fire pretty fast and it sticks when it burns (as nylon does as well).

I can confirm this. I can also confirm that the combined smell is among the worst I've ever experienced in my life. The shrieking didn't exactly improve the ambience much

[Rex G]

I would think that a leather pocket liner might be a good idea, for someone using jacket/vest-pocket carry on a regular basis. I recall reading of such, perhaps in Leroy Thompson's book on the subject of personal protection/body-guarding, or one of his articles, on the subject of bespoke clothing. Wool would be a best material for the jacket's exterior and lining. Not that these features would require the services of a Savile Row tailor; one could order supplies from Tandy Leather and fashion a crude but effective pocket liner. Leather would not only lessen the danger of fire, it would be less likely to get between the hammer and frame of a revolver without a shrouded/concealed hammer.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Why the small cal J frames was asked? Besides recoil (handled by lighter 38s), it's capacity. I bought the 32 HR as it was cheap - there was a dump due to their being discontinued. Second, the round seems reasonable and it had an extra shot. My one almost experience was two guys and a pocket 642. Not a problem. But 6 seems better. Another experience was 4 guys and then my Glock was happily with me. Resolved by some avoidance, resolute attitude and chat, BTW.

They are not primary - except for going to the mail box, doing the lawn or BUGs.

[Tamara]

Why the small cal J frames was asked? Besides recoil (handled by lighter 38s), it's capacity. I bought the 32 HR as it was cheap - there was a dump due to their being discontinued. Second, the round seems reasonable and it had an extra shot. My one almost experience was two guys and a pocket 642. Not a problem. But 6 seems better.

95gr Federal LSWC went through a 16" gel block and was recovered from the denim on the far side. I'll take that over a .380 JHP that expands perfectly and stops at eight inches.

[Chance]

Do, polyester-nylon blends are really flammable.

I remember DoD telling folks not to wear Under Armor is the early days of Iraq. UA eventually came up with fabric that wouldn't melt, but I don't think it's standard.



A pants pocket offers no flexibility to point the gun from within.


I also don't​ know that I want a concussion going off that close to my junk.

[SamAdams]

Thank you Glenn & Tam for your comments on smaller calibers.

As for wearing synthetic materials around high heat sources, that's one reason I shed them when around a campfire. Sparks can burn/melt the material and do painful harm to the skin.


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[Malamute]

I remember in the 1980s Massad Ayoob had many articles in Combat Handguns mag about shooting through your pockets with the JFrame. He also in the late 90s recommended carrying two cell phones with different carriers so you could always have a signal for 911 calls. I guess the OP friend has been reading to many Combat Handguns articles from the 90s.

I don't believe this is necessary today. Ive called 911 when I had zero signal from my carrier. Watching the phone, it said it was searching my network for signal, then after a short time it changed and said "searching all networks for signal", and it went through without a problem. I know there was no signal on my carrier (Verizon) in that area, and never has been, but I was line of sight for an AT&T tower on a ridgeline. I believe that at least for the past 10-15 years a cell will search all networks for a signal for a 911 call if it cant make connection in your carriers network. Just like old cell phones, even with no contract or actual active service will make a 911 call. I used to keep an old cell and charger in my vehicle for emergencies if I forgot my phone at home. Having old cell phones in likely places around home or spare vehicles or whatever for emergency use isn't a bad idea. One in an emergency bag may be worthwhile also.

In the slow places Ive lived, you can all the local LE center and ask if its a good time to make a 911 check call. If they say go ahead, you can try the old phone and be sure its functioning. I believe cell companies are required to leave old cell phones functional for 911 calls.

[Ed L]

Another thing to keep in mind with pocket carry in a coat pocket is that a gun carried in this fashion moves around a lot, even when carried in a pocket holster. This is not good for quickly getting your hand on it since it might not be in a position to get an easy grip on it. So if someone plans on doing this they have to pick their coat carefully with an eye toward the pockets.

If you pocket carry in a pants pocket with a holster the shape of the pocket and closeness to your body serves to keep the gun in an upright, easy to draw from position.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/6/14/the-best-guns-for-women/

Another gun for 'ladies' article and recommends a snubbie that you can shoot through your purse! That sounds like a brilliant idea.

[JAD]

https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2017/6/14/the-best-guns-for-women/

Another gun for 'ladies' article and recommends a snubbie that you can shoot through your purse! That sounds like a brilliant idea.

Il Ling New is a very respected instructor. I didn't see anything that objectionable in the article.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

That may be and seemingly attractive to women but getting a gun and shooting it through a purse makes little sense as a primary move.

[JAD]

That may be and seemingly attractive to women but getting a gun and shooting it through a purse makes little sense as a primary move.

Did she describe it as a primary move?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Light enough to always carry, they are also small enough to easily conceal, which lands them on my list of the best guns for women. I carry mine whenever possible, and with an internal hammer, I can fire it through a pocket or purse. The downside is they hold only five rounds—so always have at least one full reload on you, and know how to use it.


It would seem that it would be a form of EDC. I just don't think firing through a purse is a good idea. I would strongly suggest an on the body solution. I don't even like purse or man bag carry. Too slow and retention oops just waiting to happen. Just my opinion.

The J frame argument is a different one. With the right rounds and practice, I have no problem with that. But I've heard guys not carry because their wives carry the Taurus 85 in her purse and she will drag it out and then give it to him to do in the evil doer. Oh, well.

[critter]

Mas was not the only one writing about experimentation with shooting with pocketed J-snubs. Of course, the way I see it, a shrouded/concealed hammer snubby is also nice for shooting from other constrained environments, such as may be encountered during a FUT, when a fold of clothing may produce a temporary, virtual pocket.
...


What's a 'FUT'? (not defined in the online police jargon resources)

[Rex G]

What's a 'FUT'? (not defined in the online police jargon resources)

F = Well, just F. Flower, perhaps? ;)

U = Up.

T = Tangle, or at at least that is how I have interpreted it.

This is SouthNarc-Speak. ECQC, MUC, FUT, AMIS. (These come to mind, I am sleepy-tired.)

F'-ed-Up Tangle.

[Tamara]

What's a 'FUT'? (not defined in the online police jargon resources)

FUT

17490

[Chance]

Another gun for 'ladies' article and recommends a snubbie that you can shoot through your purse!

Some of those purses made specifically for concealing a handgun are difficult to get your hand into. My SO has one, but she has to lobster-claw the pistol out of the pouch, and her hands aren't that big. The company would replace it for free if she actually had to shoot through it, though.