G19gen4 v. G19gen4 MOS

[MedServ60Driver]

I'm considering picking up a Glock 19 Gen4 for an upgrade to my EDC. This is fairly straightforward, however I am also interested in pistol mounted red dots.

I can purchase a Glock 19 MOS for $60 more than the standard Glock 19. While this would be a no-brainer, I have read that the MOS system mounts the RMR or similar too high to use suppressor height sights. As such, I am tempted to just buy the Glock 19 and have it milled at a later date. It looks like the best price I've found for milling is $145 not including suppressor height sight installation. I could also run a dot as a trial on a MOS gun and then if I decide to stick with it, still mill it later.

Either gun will get new sights post-haste. Probably Ameriglo or possibly Trijicon HDs.

Basically this is a question of front some extra money now for what appears to be an 80% solution to try it out, or spend more money later for a more committed solution.

Thoughts?

[M2CattleCo]

I'd pick up a slide from Gunbroker and have it milled. If you don't like it, it'd be easy to sell and you'd be left with a perfectly fine G19.

[TCFD273]

I purchased the MOS and ran it for awhile before moving on. It worked well with no issues.

I was reluctant to shell out the money for milling initially due to upfront cost and not knowing if I'd see any appreciable difference.

IME you will never recover all the costs of aftermarket work if you go to sell it.


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[HCM]

I'm considering picking up a Glock 19 Gen4 for an upgrade to my EDC. This is fairly straightforward, however I am also interested in pistol mounted red dots.

I can purchase a Glock 19 MOS for $60 more than the standard Glock 19. While this would be a no-brainer, I have read that the MOS system mounts the RMR or similar too high to use suppressor height sights. As such, I am tempted to just buy the Glock 19 and have it milled at a later date. It looks like the best price I've found for milling is $145 not including suppressor height sight installation. I could also run a dot as a trial on a MOS gun and then if I decide to stick with it, still mill it later.

Either gun will get new sights post-haste. Probably Ameriglo or possibly Trijicon HDs.

Basically this is a question of front some extra money now for what appears to be an 80% solution to try it out, or spend more money later for a more committed solution.

Thoughts?

Milling is the most secure method for carry and provides the best support for the optic but you are locked into that particular optic's footprint. Are set on a particular optic ?

FYI Dawson makes BUIS specifically for the MOS models. They are available in two heights, both taller than standard suppressor height. One for RMR type optics and an even taller one for C-mores and Delta Points.

The advantage to the MOS is you are not married to a particular optic. With the new Aimpoint coming "soon" and the new shield optic from the UK flexibility might be good. The 19 MOS is now officially in use by SOCOM as the Mk 27: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24271-Glock-19-MOS-now-Mk27


http://nsn-now.com/1005016581930

STANDARD GENERATION IV G19 MK27 9MM PISTOL WITH MODULAR OPTICS SYSTEM INSTALLED ON THE WEAPON. STANDARD 5.5 POUND TRIGGER PULL, BARREL THREAD PATTERN M13.5X1LH, HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINE CAPABLE. INCLUDES: QTY OF 6, 15 ROUND MAGAZINES, MAGAZINE LOADER, CLEANING ROD, NYLON BORE BRUSH, AND PISTOL CASE*); H9D/SOCOM LOGISTICS HELP DESK: CML (859) 293-3114; DSN: 745-3114; TOLL FREE: 888-745-3114;


Another option is buy a regular Glock 19 and have it cut for the Unity Tactical ATOM modular mounting system by L&M. It is superior to the MOS system.

If you choose to have a gun cut, details matter so I would recommend ATEI or L&M.

[echo5charlie]

My experience:

I bought a G19 MOS. I bought a Trijicon RM07 RMR. I bought Trijicon supressor height night sights. I bought the Trijicon plate/screw pack.

Everything worked fine. Except shooting at speed. I found that my slow fire accuracy was way more consistent (and accurate), but shooting at speed (let alone multiple targets) was way worse than irons. Why? The RDS moves!

If you already have trigger time with a RDS pistol and *know* this is what you want to do, then go for it. If you don't have any experience then try to get some before you buy anything. Or at least have a reasonable expectation for what you will gain from having a RDS pistol.

[GJM]

What do you mean by the "RMR moves?"

[HCM]

What do you mean by the "RMR moves?"

This ^^^. I have a 17 MOS with a Delta point and the RDS does not move.

[dfeder530]

I've personally found that I'm more accurate and faster at initial sight alignment with iron sights, but it's definitely easier to clearly focus on the targets and track the red dot while firing. I've also noticed that the dot shows my one handed tremble more than iron sights, which distracts me even when shooting at targets within 7 yards. Even though I use optics on my long guns, the red dot on a pistol hasn't been as easy to use as I thought even with daily dry firing. I'm also not as confident in the durability of the MOS quite yet, and I am planning on reverting back to an iron sight Glock 19 to compare. Perhaps in a future generation of red dot pistols where they're more integrated and secure I'll try again.

[echo5charlie]

What do you mean by the "RMR moves?"

The RMR is mounted to the slide. The slide reciprocates when fired, hence "it moves".

[echo5charlie]

This ^^^. I have a 17 MOS with a Delta point and the RDS does not move.


If your Delta Point is mounted to the slide, it moves.

[spinmove_]

The RMR is mounted to the slide. The slide reciprocates when fired, hence "it moves".

Well, yeah, of course the dot is going to move. So are your iron sights though by way of the same function. So really it sounds like you're just not used to using a dot on a reciprocating slide and you need to work with it.


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[echo5charlie]

Well, yeah, of course the dot is going to move. So are your iron sights though by way of the same function. So really it sounds like you're just not used to using a dot on a reciprocating slide and you need to work with it.


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A person that does not have any RDS shooting time may not realize that you cannot track a slide mounted RDS as they do iron sights. Just as anything else, while a RDS has advantages it also has disadvantages. One of my favorites was the necessary cleaning of lint from the inside of the lens - talk about red dot bloom!

[TCFD273]

Well, yeah, of course the dot is going to move. So are your iron sights though by way of the same function. So really it sounds like you're just not used to using a dot on a reciprocating slide and you need to work with it.


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I ran 11,238 rounds through an RMR. Been back to irons for awhile now, the juice wasn't worth the squeeze for me. I can def see how it's a benefit to some.

I would get the MOS and run it for awhile before you commit to milling etc


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[HCM]

If your Delta Point is mounted to the slide, it moves.

Of course it reciprocates with the slide. So do Iron sights.

[HCM]

Well, yeah, of course the dot is going to move. So are your iron sights though by way of the same function. So really it sounds like you're just not used to using a dot on a reciprocating slide and you need to work with it.


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This ^^^. An RDS on a reciprocating slide is going to "move" more than one on a carbine or a frame mount like a USPSA open gun or a 6 second mount. Just like the RDS highlights your "wobble", presentation errors and trigger control errors it highlights recoil management issues. It is possible to track a slide mounted dot but like everything else, there is a learning curve.

[echo5charlie]

This ^^^. An RDS on a reciprocating slide is going to "move" more than one on a carbine or a frame mount like a USPSA open gun or a 6 second mount. Just like the RDS highlights your "wobble", presentation errors and trigger control errors it highlights recoil management issues. It is possible to track a slide mounted dot but like everything else, there is a learning curve.

Indeed it is possible to track a slide mounted RDS, but that is a minority of a minority.

[echo5charlie]

Of course it reciprocates with the slide. So do Iron sights.

Then what was the point of your original question? I'm not being snarky, seriously wondering.

[HCM]

Then what was the point of your original question? I'm not being snarky, seriously wondering.

You said slow fire was fine but mentioned the dot "moving" in rapid fire. Since a slide mounted RDS will obviously reciprocate I was trying to determine if that was a loose / improperly mounted optic issue. I've seen an optic come loose on a MOS mount due to improper mounting.

[GJM]

Indeed it is possible to track a slide mounted RDS, but that is a minority of a minority.

Can you elaborate on this statement, as I am confused as to exactly what you are saying here?

[echo5charlie]

You said slow fire was fine but mentioned the dot "moving" in rapid fire. Since a slide mounted RDS will obviously reciprocate I was trying to determine if that was a loose / improperly mounted optic issue. I've seen an optic come loose on a MOS mount due to improper mounting.

I understand. I used moving as we do with iron sights. I should have been clearer with that. I also should have clarified that, unlike irons, the dot moving can result in it disappearing off the lens until it is properly aligned again.


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[echo5charlie]

Can you elaborate on this statement, as I am confused as to exactly what you are saying here?

Sure. The minority, as I used it, is proper sight tracking. Not many shooters can track irons properly (the minority). Not many RDS shooters track the dot like irons (the minority of the minority).


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[spinmove_]

Sure. The minority, as I used it, is proper sight tracking. Not many shooters can track irons properly (the minority). Not many RDS shooters track the dot like irons (the minority of the minority).


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Sounds like lots of shooters need to work on Recoil control before they start blaming hardware for software issues.


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[echo5charlie]

Sounds like lots of shooters need to work on Recoil control before they start blaming hardware for software issues.


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How long did it take you to master running a slide mounted RDS?


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[spinmove_]

How long did it take you to master running a slide mounted RDS?


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Never shot one. That doesn't change the fact that, based on the experience of others on this forum and elsewhere, that with proper Recoil control, tracking the dot is possible.

Now I'm sure your gut reaction is going to be "well then keep quiet and stay in your lane". I would say to that I have recently been working to shoot faster. In order to shoot faster while calling shots, one must track the sights. In order to track the sights better while calling shots and shooting faster one must better control or manage Recoil. Applying the fundamentals better I've been able to do just that. So while I haven't been working with a dot, I have been working to improve my software. By doing so I've had an easier time shooting faster by tracking the sights better which was done by managing Recoil better than I previously had.


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[echo5charlie]

HTTPS://pistol-training.com/archives/132

TLG wrote this with you in mind.


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[echo5charlie]

And this one:

HTTPS://pistol-training.com/archives/9489


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[spinmove_]

Ok, I've read both of those articles in the past and re-read them for reference. Are you saying that you suffer from a lack of training time to properly use the dot or are you saying that I've had near infinite amounts of training time and practice time at my disposal? I can guarantee you that I don't have the latter and wouldn't begrudge you in the slightest if you're alluding to the former.


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[HCM]

I understand. I used moving as we do with iron sights. I should have been clearer with that. I also should have clarified that, unlike irons, the dot moving can result in it disappearing off the lens until it is properly aligned again.


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When I was younger and had 20/20 vision I could track a pistol front iron sight through its full range. It's more difficult for me now but at worst I track it up, lose it and "ambush" it on the way down. It works for close fast shooting. I have been applying a similar ambush technique to fast RDS shooting.

My recoil control is good, both because I'm a large-ish human relatively strong human and having to learn the fine points teaching others who dont share those advantages.

Fast RDS is really forcing me to improve is my presentation but once the gun is out there I not having issues tracking.

If I still had 20/20 vision the RDS juice might not be worth the squeeze but for me it is RDS or HD Type irons for anything other than bright sunny days on an outdoor range.

[TCFD273]

Can you elaborate on this statement, as I am confused as to exactly what you are saying here?

I would assume he means tracking the dot, not the RMR

I had no issues tracking the dot on my G19 MOS, I just personally never saw any major gains inside 25yds. It was easier, faster, to get hits on steel past 25, but in a defensive roll I personally don't see the need.

Now, my wife and some friends that don't shoot as much as I do, did have very big improvements in accuracy and speed inside 25yds.

As I stated earlier, I can totally see how it benefits some people, even high volume shooters. I just wasn't one of them.


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[echo5charlie]

Ok, I've read both of those articles in the past and re-read them for reference. Are you saying that you suffer from a lack of training time to properly use the dot or are you saying that I've had near infinite amounts of training time and practice time at my disposal? I can guarantee you that I don't have the latter and wouldn't begrudge you in the slightest if you're alluding to the former.


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Nope and nope.

I'm sure our side conversation is doing nothing to help the OP at this point.

[pew_pew]

I think it's pretty simple.

MOS
Pros:
- great way to test red dots if new to it
- not married to a single optic. Even if you have a favorite, if it breaks it's easy to switch to a new one.
- simple and cheap factory option

Cons:
- not as secure as milling
- sits higher over bore compared to milling

Milling
Pros:
- more secure option
- sits lower on bore
- best option for a "fighting" pistol

Cons:
- stuck with whatever optic

I really didn't like the MOS at first but I think it's probably the best option for most people.

[coldcase1984]

I finally took my 19MOS and qualified with it for backup w plastic sights, then immediately took off the sights. Dropped into the abyss when Aimpoint didn't introduce the Nano or any pistol optic at NRA Convention.

I pulled off the plastic sights and was pondering a Vortex Viper and decided to just datgum wait for an Aimpoint product.

Or maybe I'll sell it...

[spinmove_]

Worst case scenario, you hate the red dot for whatever reason and you just put the slick top plate back on the 19MOS. If you're going to be serious about the red dot, you'll eventually have a milled slide on a pistol dedicated for that optic.


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[Jared]

When I decided I wanted to try the rds thing out, I didn't hesitate, I got a G19 MOS. I figured if I really dig the concept I can go the killed route later. Worst case scenario, I hate the rds on a pistol, take the dot off and I've got a good old Gen 4 G19 to use. To me, if you're not sure, the MOS is probably the most economical way to experiment without getting burned long term.

[GJM]

Another option is buy a regular Glock 19 and have it cut for the Unity Tactical ATOM modular mounting system by L&M. It is superior to the MOS system.

Perhaps in theory, but not sure in execution. Tonight, I am trying to mount a T1 on a Gen 4 17 and 19 Unity Tactical Atom slide. On the 19, when I mount the upper on a G4 19, with the barrel and all the rest of the slide parts from this pistol, the Atom slide does not move freely. Perhaps it will break in, but right now it is TU. On the Atom 17 slide, the Unity T1 mounting plate is sloppy loose on the 17 slide. I will need to try another adapter plate or fill the top of the slide full of red loctite to try to mount the optic securely.

Ever since I liberally added loctite to the MOS system, the optics have remained secure.

As to red dot performance, there is a wide range of experiences as to how well a dot works. With a DP Pro, I am faster and more accurate at all distances with the dot than the using same pistol with iron sights.

[HCM]

Perhaps in theory, but not sure in execution. Tonight, I am trying to mount a T1 on a Gen 4 17 and 19 Unity Tactical Atom slide. On the 19, when I mount the upper on a G4 19, with the barrel and all the rest of the slide parts from this pistol, the Atom slide does not move freely. Perhaps it will break in, but right now it is TU. On the Atom 17 slide, the Unity T1 mounting plate is sloppy loose on the 17 slide. I will need to try another adapter plate or fill the top of the slide full of red loctite to try to mount the optic securely.

Ever since I liberally added loctite to the MOS system, the optics have remained secure.

As to red dot performance, there is a wide range of experiences as to how well a dot works. With a DP Pro, I am faster and more accurate at all distances with the dot than the using same pistol with iron sights.

My own MOS 17 and DP PRO has remianed secure as well. I used plenty of blue loctite but I need to witness mark the screws just in case.

As for the ATOM mounts - the plates aometimes need fitting and are not always "plug and play" in the Glock sense. more like the "drop in 1911" sense.

The MOS is the RDS "gateway drug".

[GJM]

My own MOS 17 and DP PRO has remianed secure as well. I used plenty of blue loctite but I need to witness mark the screws just in case.

As for the ATOM mounts - the plates aometimes need fitting and are not always "plug and play" in the Glock sense. more like the "drop in 1911" sense.

The MOS is the RDS "gateway drug".

I get fitting when the adapter is tight, but what do you do when it is loose, besides add loctite? Will prob contact the company and see about what dimensional variation they expect.