Practice your head shots.

[Shellback]

4 man home invasion with at least one of the perps wearing body armor. Full article here. (http://m.rrdailyherald.com/mobile/news/intruder-killed-despite-wearing-body-armor/article_83c410b8-2cad-11e1-95f8-0019bb2963f4.html)


“The gentleman that did get shot and was killed was wearing body armor,” Martin said. “That is a trend we are starting to see. The bad guys go in to do a robbery or home invasion and they have their body armor on."

Have a happy and safe 2012.

[JDM]

Another strong argument for a bedside carbine.

[fuse]

Another strong argument for a bedside carbine.

No kidding.

The more I think about it the more I think a suppressed SBR is the ultimate home defence long arm.

[Jay Cunningham]

No kidding.

The more I think about it the more I think a suppressed SBR is the ultimate home defence long arm.

Hard to argue with that logic.

[JConn]

Yeah, if you can swing it that's the way to go. More intuitive for untrained people with an aimpoint on there as well.

[CCT125US]

If only there was some sort of internet site that advocated shooting at low probability targets with surgical precision......

[Kyle Reese]

Depending on the level of armor, having a few mags of M855 (if you're running a carbine) on tap might not be a bad idea.

I'm curious is the perps were donning soft armor or plates...

[jmjames]

Turns out, this was drug related. The homeowner is now up on charges:
http://rrspin.com/News-from-Roanoke-Rapids-Weldon-and-Halifax-County/Man-who-killed-intruder-faces-fed-drug-counts.html

I'd be curious to know if the sheriff meant that the trend in body armor usage was specific to drug-related stuff, or overall robberies/home invasions.

J.Ja

[ToddG]

If only there was some sort of internet site that advocated shooting at low probability targets with surgical precision......

Awesome.

[LittleLebowski]

Turns out, this was drug related. The homeowner is now up on charges:
http://rrspin.com/News-from-Roanoke-Rapids-Weldon-and-Halifax-County/Man-who-killed-intruder-faces-fed-drug-counts.html

I'd be curious to know if the sheriff meant that the trend in body armor usage was specific to drug-related stuff, or overall robberies/home invasions.

J.Ja

This is my not surprised face.

[jlw]

Turns out, this was drug related. The homeowner is now up on charges:
http://rrspin.com/News-from-Roanoke-Rapids-Weldon-and-Halifax-County/Man-who-killed-intruder-faces-fed-drug-counts.html

J.Ja



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

[JHC]

I hear of several home invasions a month here in the ATL area and it seems like more than half the time, it turns out to be red on red like that.

[BigT]

Body armour often with plates is not unheard of in home invasions here. Actual assault rifles (ak's and R5's) turn up from time to time as well. Not badguys on badguys but in attacks on normal people.

[JDM]

Body armour often with plates is not unheard of in home invasions here. Actual assault rifles (ak's and R5's) turn up from time to time as well. Not badguys on badguys but in attacks on normal people.

What does the law say about armed self defense in SA?

[Erick Gelhaus]

Here in the "medicinal" marijuana garden (pun intended) spot, locally we get these - probably a few more than other places but mostly related to "medicinal" marijuana.

There is not however much indication of the Bad Guys rolling around in armor - yet.

[Chuck Haggard]

We get them wearing armor on occasion. We seem to seize armor about once a month doing various search warrants, we mostly find it in the closet though.

[DocGKR]

If the felons just have on soft armor, obviously almost any centerfire rifle will defeat it. If they have on hard plates, then it becomes more interesting. M855 will penetrate LIII compressed polyethelene plates, but not plates using steel or ceramic. On the other hand, M193 will penetrate the steel plates that stop M855, but cannot defeat compressed PE plates or those using ceramic. With ceramic plates, if you space your shots closer together than about 2 inches, you are likely to defeat the armor. The new Federal #1 buckshot load (LE132-1B) fired into the bad guy's face also does wonders at stopping an attack. Of course you can just go old school and use an M1 Garand loaded with M2 AP black-tip as your home defense gun and you'll be ready for most armor clad bad guys...

[mscott327]

Of course you can just go old school and use an M1 Garand loaded with M2 AP black-tip as your home defense gun and you'll be ready for most armor clad bad guys... yeah, and the occassional light armored vehicle you might encounter.

[JHC]

If the felons just have on soft armor, obviously almost any centerfire rifle will defeat it. If they have on hard plates, then it becomes more interesting. M855 will penetrate LIII compressed polyethelene plates, but not plates using steel or ceramic. On the other hand, M193 will penetrate the steel plates that stop M855, but cannot defeat compressed PE plates or those using ceramic. With ceramic plates, if you space your shots closer together than about 2 inches, you are likely to defeat the armor. The new Federal #1 buckshot load (LE132-1B) fired into the bad guy's face also does wonders at stopping an attack. Of course you can just go old school and use an M1 Garand loaded with M2 AP black-tip as your home defense gun and you'll be ready for most armor clad bad guys...

Doc, do you expect US Palm's $199 economy soft armor rig for home defense will make much of an impact on the market and spread of body armor? Is it quality stuff? It's the first I've noticed a product marketed to civilians at such a low price point.

[BigT]

What does the law say about armed self defense in SA?

Not too bad. No Castle Doctrine. But we can use force to protect life , either your own or anothers. Once you've got a license for a firearms you can carry most places as well. Its a violent country so it happens pretty often too.

[Occam's Razor]

No kidding.

The more I think about it the more I think a suppressed SBR is the ultimate home defence long arm.

Hated paying the ATF, but having shorty with me is well worth it.

[TGS]

Not too bad. No Castle Doctrine. But we can use force to protect life , either your own or anothers. Once you've got a license for a firearms you can carry most places as well. Its a violent country so it happens pretty often too.

If you conceal a weapon for self-defense, and generally try to stay out a trouble, are the chances on the side of having to shoot someone?

I have a friend who traveled to South Africa in 2008. She said there were corpses laying on the side of the road in a few places. :eek:

Stay safe.

[BigT]

If you conceal a weapon for self-defense, and generally try to stay out a trouble, are the chances on the side of having to shoot someone?

I have a friend who traveled to South Africa in 2008. She said there were corpses laying on the side of the road in a few places. :eek:

Stay safe.


In South Africa trouble find you:p

Seriously though. Like everywhere staying out of trouble spots will reduce your chances of getting in trouble. But nonetheless you can do everything "right" and there is I would guess a lot more chance than getting in a fight than in the US. Pretty much everyone has either been effected by violent crime or at least has had someone close to them affected by violent crime. Happens in the nicest places to nice people looking to stay out of trouble.

So short version yup from time to time guys have to shoot badguys, probably a lot more than over there.

WRT the corpses. Oftentimes visitors to our shores are shocked at the corpses on the side of the road. They are generally just people sleeping. Really. Find a patch of grass and someone will be sleeping on it:D Corpses on the road are normally the result of car accidents etc and are normally sorted out efficiently and well.

Its actually a cool place for all its flaws.

[WCDUB]

If what I am about to say is completely wrong,someone please disabuse me of this notion:

Surely,a CM shot with a 12 gauge/00 buck,or .45,on someone wearing body armor,will distract them enough to allow you to get a head shot. No? This is assuming that you don't know they have armor.If you do know,then the first shot should be a head shot.

[Failure2Stop]

Depends on their mental state at the time.

From Tapatalk:
Jack Leuba
Knight's Armament Company: Military/Govt Product Liaison
F2S Consulting: Director of Shooting Stuff

[Josh Runkle]

Why would you take a body shot first? Maybe it's the shot that's available to you at that time. Certainly, take whatever is available to you in order to make them stop trying to kill you.

ETA: does that mean that shot is effective? Depends on too many variables.

Why .45 or 12 ga?

[Alpha Sierra]

Hated paying the ATF, but having shorty with me is well worth it.
A bullpup takes care of the length and the ATF both at once

[BehindBlueI's]

If what I am about to say is completely wrong,someone please disabuse me of this notion:

Surely,a CM shot with a 12 gauge/00 buck,or .45,on someone wearing body armor,will distract them enough to allow you to get a head shot. No? This is assuming that you don't know they have armor.If you do know,then the first shot should be a head shot.

Depends on the armor, the dedication of the individual, the angle of impact, etc. Our SWAT guys have been hit in the armor by some serious rounds and kept on taking care of business. Not terribly long ago a couple of them got hit in the armor, one got a through-and-through to the leg, and they finished the job.

[Chuck Whitlock]

If what I am about to say is completely wrong,someone please disabuse me of this notion:

Surely,a CM shot with a 12 gauge/00 buck,or .45,on someone wearing body armor,will distract them enough to allow you to get a head shot. No? This is assuming that you don't know they have armor.If you do know,then the first shot should be a head shot.


Depends on the armor, the dedication of the individual, the angle of impact, etc. Our SWAT guys have been hit in the armor by some serious rounds and kept on taking care of business. Not terribly long ago a couple of them got hit in the armor, one got a through-and-through to the leg, and they finished the job.

IIRC, when Rich Davis was first demonstrating Second Chance body armor, he would shoot himself with a S&W M29 .44 Magnum, then turn the gun and shoot a few bowling pins off of a table.

[Drang]

IIRC, when Rich Davis was first demonstrating Second Chance body armor, he would shoot himself with a S&W M29 .44 Magnum, then turn the gun and shoot a few bowling pins off of a table.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwBLL7Z3OvU
Relevant section starts at about 2:10.

[BehindBlueI's]

IIRC, when Rich Davis was first demonstrating Second Chance body armor, he would shoot himself with a S&W M29 .44 Magnum, then turn the gun and shoot a few bowling pins off of a table.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IwBLL7Z3OvU
Relevant section starts at about 2:10.

....that's dedication for sure. Not sure how smart it is...but certainly dedicated. :D

[Drang]

....that's dedication for sure. Not sure how smart it is...but certainly dedicated. :D

The money quote is at the end of the video, when Rich Davis says "The first time was science, the next 200 were show business."

[ACP230]

Later Rich used a 12 pack of diet Coke.
Saw him do the demo with .44 Mag and .480 Ruger.