Off-topic "gun guy" vs. "shooter" discussion (split from LAV DA/SA thread)

[ShooterM9]

The fierce, dare I say, nearly psychotic level of loyalty to one particular trigger group or brand is amusing. Or, it would be, were it not kind of disturbing. If a person is fanatically attached to one specific handgun brand or trigger action, he is not really a "gun guy" but a brand guy.

[s0nspark]

The fierce, dare I say, nearly psychotic level of loyalty to one particular trigger group or brand is amusing. Or, it would be, were it not kind of disturbing. If a person is fanatically attached to one specific handgun brand or trigger action, he is not really a "gun guy" but a brand guy.

Well...... in fairness, there is a difference between being committed to what is proven to work well for you and being a brand/action fanatic. Not so easy to see that line on the internet, though.

Anyway, I'd rather be a shooter than a gun guy ;-)

[StraitR]

What are the upsides to being a "gun guy" with a pile of various makers and trigger types vs the person who only owns and shoots a Glock 26, 19, and 17?

I'm neither of the above, BTW, I'm just not following the "you aren't a real gun guy if" logic of thinking.

[ShooterM9]

There are "geardos" and there are serious shooters.

If you have to ask what the difference is.....

:)

[StraitR]

There are "geardos" and there are serious shooters.

If you have to ask what the difference is.....

:)

I didn't ask what the difference is, I asked what the upside is to being a "gun guy" as you laid it out. You talk about it like you wear it as a badge of honor, and my questioning was a way of calling you out politely, but now that we're in GD, I'll tell you straight up that I think it's typical gunboard asshattery.

If you don't know why...

:)

[breakingtime91]

I didn't ask what the difference is, I asked what the upside is to being a "gun guy" as you laid it out. You talk about it like you wear it as a badge of honor, and my questioning was a way of calling you out politely, but now that we're in GD, I'll tell you straight up that I think it's typical gunboard asshattery.

If you don't know why...

:)

Yup. Too cool for school and all that :D

[Clobbersaurus]

The fierce, dare I say, nearly psychotic level of loyalty to one particular trigger group or brand is amusing. Or, it would be, were it not kind of disturbing. If a person is fanatically attached to one specific handgun brand or trigger action, he is not really a "gun guy" but a brand guy.

Is this where you go on another fundamentals rant? :)

That being said, as a gun guy and a shooter I will shoot anything......as long as it has a hammer, or a gadget. Please Tom, sell me a gadget! :p

[okie john]

Hitler. E/O/T.


Okie John

[Drang]

Hitler. E/O/T.
I'm pretty sure you know that's not what Godwin said...

:cool:

[shane45]

Im a gun guy. But I stick with a particular vein of actions, pistol types or brands. I shoot 1911's and LEM HK's. That's it. Why? Because its what I shoot best. And for some reason the LEM does not interfere with my "software" when I switch to 1911's. Through a DA/SA into my mix on a range day and I may start having some issues. I pretty much do the same thing across the board. My carbines between 5.56 and 308 will have the same triggers and controls and so do my precision rifles. So they tend to be the same brand. "Psychotic loyalty" implies irrational reasoning. But I infer from your post that anyone that sticks in a particular line, it would seem that you may deem a fanatic. Can I shoot others? Of course! And have done so over many rounds and many years leading me to what I shoot today. Someone who has reached a point of refinement and confidence in the systems they are using doesn't make them a fanatic. Nor does it preclude them from being a gun guy. Psychotic and fanatical behaviors in the true sense of the words are just that and probably extend far beyond their firearms selections I suspect.

[LittleLebowski]

There are "geardos" and there are serious shooters.

If you have to ask what the difference is.....

:)

Not really a problem on this forum.

[HCountyGuy]

Hitler. E/O/T.


Okie John

Sorry, but the firearm world equivalent is what SEALs use. If you're not running a Mk25, you're a chump who's never operated.

So, is this discussion about seriously shooters of one or two platform so versus S.I.M.P.s?

[breakingtime91]

Sorry, but the firearm world equivalent is what SEALs use. If you're not running a Mk25, you're a chump who's never operated.

So, is this discussion about seriously shooters of one or two platform so versus S.I.M.P.s?

Isn't it a g19 now, got one on me right now because "seals"

[LittleLebowski]

Is this a skills test or a measurement of what one says online?

[Hambo]

Is this a skills test or a measurement of what one says online?

Sounds like a skills test to me. Throw down, boy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA_trUrPQbI

[ShooterM9]

My point is simply that a person who is a "gun guy" can and will appreciate all types and kinds of firearm because he has achieved basic competency in the fundamentals and so is able to operate most any firearm effectively and accurately. Sure, he will have his favorite types and brands of firearms, but fanatical devotion to a particular brand or one particularly trigger action as if *it* is the key to effective use of a firearm is not a good approach, in my opinion.

It might be said to be comparable to the difference between a fan of the game of baseball and merely a fan of a particular baseball team.

[Trigger]

Insert obligatory Matthew Quigley quote here:

"I said I didn't have much use for one. Didn't say I didn't know how to use it."

[s0nspark]

Sounds like a skills test to me. Throw down, boy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA_trUrPQbI

Epic. One of my favorite movie scenes ever :)

[LSP552]

This thread makes me want to go hang out on Perfection Specific Gun Forum for research.

[breakingtime91]

My point is simply that a person who is a "gun guy" can and will appreciate all types and kinds of firearm because he has achieved basic competency in the fundamentals and so is able to operate most any firearm effectively and accurately. Sure, he will have his favorite types and brands of firearms, but fanatical devotion to a particular brand or one particularly trigger action as if *it* is the key to effective use of a firearm is not a good approach, in my opinion.

It might be said to be comparable to the difference between a fan of the game of baseball and merely a fan of a particular baseball team.

I think you misunderstand most members here. While most have a preference, I have no doubt most of the more vocal
Membership here could pick up any handgun and run it sufficiently. Unfortunately, which was apparent in my journal you posted in, you only read what you want to read. I may be an odd duck where I like almost any gun but think it's important, after getting basic fundamentals, to stick with one gun for awhile. Maybe it's my background or own experience fighting but I want my gear to be an after thought (as in I know what I have on me and where it is subconsciously) so I can focus on other aspects of the fight. Obviously, and probably, your mileage may vary.

[shane45]

My point is simply that a person who is a "gun guy" can and will appreciate all types and kinds of firearm because he has achieved basic competency in the fundamentals and so is able to operate most any firearm effectively and accurately. Sure, he will have his favorite types and brands of firearms, but fanatical devotion to a particular brand or one particularly trigger action as if *it* is the key to effective use of a firearm is not a good approach, in my opinion.

It might be said to be comparable to the difference between a fan of the game of baseball and merely a fan of a particular baseball team.

Shooter M9, your missing a key element. And it may indicate you haven't fully grasped the subject matter at hand. Gear selection is largely an individual affair. I will use myself as the example. I favor the 1911 and the HK LEM because I perform much better with them, likely because I like the way they function and my brain accepts they way they operate. Basic competency is not part of this equation. Im sure I can perform at a basic competency level with a firearm I have never seen or handled before(and have). So what. Doesn't mean I want one or want to dedicate any time to it. It seems like your point is you would rather be mediocre with all handguns than highly proficient in a few. Again, Im not interested in discussing behaviors so Im not really interested in discussing irrational positions. But it still seems that you would lump anyone who prefers a specific setup as a fanatic. Could you please articulate what exactly your concern is with the approach of becoming highly proficient in a specific system as your post states. Can I infer from your statements that you do not favor any specific brand or system?

[ShooterM9]

Shooter M9, your missing a key element.

Ironically, no, it is you who entirely missed the point. You can prefer a particular gun brand or trigger action or weapon platform, but if you are so fanatically devoted to that brand, platform, trigger, etc. that you are not competent with a wide range of firearms, you are a not a "gun guy" but just a brand/product/platform fanatic. A fundamental mastery of shooting a handgun plays itself out across all handguns, rifles too for that matter. In your effort to try to contradict what I'm saying you resort to personal insult and putting words in my mouth. Nowhere in my comments did I advocate for being "mediocre." And nowhere am I suggesting one should not become "highly proficient" with a weapon platform or trigger mechanism. You should slow down when reading peoples' points next time and you would not blunder into significant misinterpretation of their point.

[s0nspark]

You can prefer a particular gun brand or trigger action or weapon platform, but if you are so fanatically devoted to that brand, platform, trigger, etc. that you are not competent with a wide range of firearms, you are a not a "gun guy" but just a brand/product/platform fanatic. A fundamental mastery of shooting a handgun plays itself out across all handguns, rifles too for that matter.

Hmm ... I still think you may be conflating two different things.

Whether or not someone is serious about shooting has little to do with gear preference/loyalty or lack thereof. Learning to shoot a particular handgun well will allow one to shoot reasonably well with almost any handgun (micro pistols, Desert Eagles, and large bore woods guns aside LOL) after some initial familiarization with how it handles. That kind of competency comes from one's commitment to train and practice - and that is the true mark of seriousness: commitment.

In other words, I would say that if you are not competent with a wide variety of handguns it is because you aren't really competent with any.

For example, I teach basic pistol classes and private lessons and I routinely have opportunity to pick up a student's gun - one that I have not personally had any trigger time with before - and I can successfully demonstrate whatever I am teaching, but that wasn't the case until I reached a certain level of competency with my own. Of course, I personally wouldn't want to commit any of my practice time to learning to shoot most of those guns at a high level (a lot of them are, uh, undesirable and my personal practice time is rather limited) but I am glad I can show them what their gun can do in the hands of a decent shooter.

Now, if you are really just railing against others' perceived emotional attachments to brands or action types then that is a separate issue.

Aside from the aforementioned case where someone is really saying "this is what works well for me" (which isn't based on emotion but performance and that message doesn't always cross the wires well), that kind of emotional attachment usually comes as a result of someone having some sort of skill-level breakthrough with certain gear OR drinking too much of the brand kool-aid OR just wanting to be part of a group they respect.

None of that has anything to do with how serious they may be about shooting... although the latter two groups usually aren't ;-)

[Robinson]

I think you misunderstand most members here. While most have a preference, I have no doubt most of the more vocal
Membership here could pick up any handgun and run it sufficiently. Unfortunately, which was apparent in my journal you posted in, you only read what you want to read. I may be an odd duck where I like almost any gun but think it's important, after getting basic fundamentals, to stick with one gun for awhile. Maybe it's my background or own experience fighting but I want my gear to be an after thought (as in I know what I have on me and where it is subconsciously) so I can focus on other aspects of the fight. Obviously, and probably, your mileage may vary.

This here. (not that I would compare myself to breakingtime91 as I am not a combat veteran)

I've experimented with striker-fired guns, double action guns, and found things I like about each type. I have decided to stay with the 9mm 1911 for my uses and all of my practice time is dedicated to that. But if necessary I could switch to a different system, start practicing with it, and continue the cycle without much heartburn.

[shane45]

Ironically, no, it is you who entirely missed the point. You can prefer a particular gun brand or trigger action or weapon platform, but if you are so fanatically devoted to that brand, platform, trigger, etc. that you are not competent with a wide range of firearms, you are a not a "gun guy" but just a brand/product/platform fanatic. A fundamental mastery of shooting a handgun plays itself out across all handguns, rifles too for that matter. In your effort to try to contradict what I'm saying you resort to personal insult and putting words in my mouth. Nowhere in my comments did I advocate for being "mediocre." And nowhere am I suggesting one should not become "highly proficient" with a weapon platform or trigger mechanism. You should slow down when reading peoples' points next time and you would not blunder into significant misinterpretation of their point.

Exactly where did I insult you or put words in your mouth?
I interpreted what you said.
I talked about myself.
I expressed my opinion.
I asked questions about your statements which you haven't answered.

If you don't want your position understood or scrutinized, exactly why did you post it up on a public forum?

[shane45]

I disagree with the logic of this premise.
"You can prefer a particular gun brand or trigger action or weapon platform, but if you are so fanatically devoted to that brand, platform, trigger, etc. that you are not competent with a wide range of firearms, you are a not a "gun guy" but just a brand/product/platform fanatic."

I agree with this premise.
"In other words, I would say that if you are not competent with a wide variety of handguns it is because you aren't really competent with any. "

[breakingtime91]

Ironically, no, it is you who entirely missed the point. You can prefer a particular gun brand or trigger action or weapon platform, but if you are so fanatically devoted to that brand, platform, trigger, etc. that you are not competent with a wide range of firearms, you are a not a "gun guy" but just a brand/product/platform fanatic. A fundamental mastery of shooting a handgun plays itself out across all handguns, rifles too for that matter. In your effort to try to contradict what I'm saying you resort to personal insult and putting words in my mouth. Nowhere in my comments did I advocate for being "mediocre." And nowhere am I suggesting one should not become "highly proficient" with a weapon platform or trigger mechanism. You should slow down when reading peoples' points next time and you would not blunder into significant misinterpretation of their point.

Do you have a concealed carry rotation?

[Hambo]

it is you who entirely missed the point.

Agreed, I've totally missed your point. Since it's a personal choice to get stuck on Glock/Chevy/Mac or learn to use anything with bullets/wheels/microchips, why would anyone else GAF?

[LittleLebowski]

We're done. ShooterM9, do me a favor and don't assume this forum is full of brand specific/non-shooters/whatever and just enjoy the place. Any questions, PM me.