New Aimpoint photos leaked

[LittleLebowski]

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/05/07/aimpoint-m5-in-the-wild/

[KhanRad]

I was hoping it would use 1 D-cell battery.........

[farscott]

Interesting new product. I wonder if this means the end of the Comp M4 or whether it will continue as the M68 CCO and still be available for commercial sales. I assume the latter. I really like the Comp M4 and find it to be a great value.

[HCM]

Interesting new product. I wonder if this means the end of the Comp M4 or whether it will continue as the M68 CCO and still be available for commercial sales. I assume the latter. I really like the Comp M4 and find it to be a great value.

I doubt it. This was created for a specific group (DOS) who can have issues sourcing or shipping lithium batteries like CR2032's in certain parts of the world.

The Comp M4 is designed to be as cop/ soldier proof as possible. Plus there are still those (like me) who prefer 30mm tubes.

[farscott]

I doubt it. This was created for a specific group (DOS) who can have issues sourcing or shipping lithium batteries like CR2032's in certain parts of the world.

The Comp M4 is designed to be as cop/ soldier proof as possible. Plus there are still those (like me) who prefer 30mm tubes.

I really hope you are correct. I am neither LE nor DoD, but I find the Comp M4 to be more than sturdy enough for anything I might use it while being extremely easy to use, partially due to the large diameter tube. One is the primary sight system on my HD AR.

[LittleLebowski]

I like the looks of this, but I hope for more "budget" models like my PRO.

[GJM]

Recently, we have noticed problems even with Duracell and Energizer AA and AAA batteries corroding, sometimes even in their original packing. Think they are marked, "made in China."

Should we be concerned about medium to longer term storage of the Aimpoint M4 and this new model, with the battery installed?

[BillSWPA]

Recently, we have noticed problems even with Duracell and Energizer AA and AAA batteries corroding, sometimes even in their original packing. Think they are marked, "made in China."

Should we be concerned about medium to longer term storage of the Aimpoint M4 and this new model, with the battery installed?

I do not use alkaleaks for anything that will accept Eneloop NiMH cells, which is almost anything.


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[Mike C]

I do not use alkaleaks for anything that will accept Eneloop NiMH cells, which is almost anything.


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I hope these new Aimpoints will run on Eneloops. I love those batterys they are amazing. These new Aimpoints look perfect for my 300 BLK carbines. 2017 is shaping up after all.

[M2CattleCo]

If lithium batteries are the problem I wonder if there is any leak protection in this optic for the alkalines?

I've had alkalines kill everything I put 'em in.

[heyscooter]

I love Aaron smashing away in the comments. Hi Aaron! Keep fighting the good fight!

[Rex G]

I have a very favorable experience-based opinion of recharge-able AA Eneloop cells, specifically the white-body low-self-discharge version*, so an Aimpoint optic that will run on AAA Eneloops has my attention. A "smart" charger is necessary to get the best re-charges, particularly as the cells age, but for something as vital as a weapon's optic, might well use only new ones. (White Eneloops are packaged and sold charged.)

*High-self-discharge Eneloops have been marketed, so it is now necessary to be specific. The high-self-discharge cells have more milli-amp hours of power, but they will self-discharge much more quickly.

[1986s4]

Eneloop NiMH ? Never heard of them up 'till now, thanks guys. Do these come 1/3N for the Aimpoint Pro? I'm looking.

[Hizzie]

I like AA's for commonality with ear pro and backup flashlights in the range bag. I'll be more interested in this optic if/when there are AK compatible mounts available.

[Wayne Dobbs]

I like the looks of this, but I hope for more "budget" models like my PRO.

That is a matter of discussion...

And while it's really cool for an organization to have a sight that uses a commonly found battery, if you're a serious user, never put an inexpensive version of any battery in your optic. Those Chinese "gifts" will leak and ruin your expensive gear in short order. Top quality, top price batteries only.

[HCM]

I like AA's for commonality with ear pro and backup flashlights in the range bag. I'll be more interested in this optic if/when there are AK compatible mounts available.

The M5 uses AAA's (not sure if that is what you meant). As far as mounts, my understanding is it uses any Aimpoint Micro mount.

[Gray222]

I have a very favorable experience-based opinion of recharge-able AA Eneloop cells, specifically the white-body low-self-discharge version*, so an Aimpoint optic that will run on AAA Eneloops has my attention. A "smart" charger is necessary to get the best re-charges, particularly as the cells age, but for something as vital as a weapon's optic, might well use only new ones. (White Eneloops are packaged and sold charged.)

*High-self-discharge Eneloops have been marketed, so it is now necessary to be specific. The high-self-discharge cells have more milli-amp hours of power, but they will self-discharge much more quickly.

I only use enelope pro for flashes and I will probably use them for this optic once I purchase it.

[BillSWPA]

Eneloop NiMH ? Never heard of them up 'till now, thanks guys. Do these come 1/3N for the Aimpoint Pro? I'm looking.

I think the reason you never heard of them is because if everyone figured out how good they are, the disposable alkaleak market would disappear.

NiMH is essentially the same chemistry that is used in a cordless phone. However, the white Eneloops mentioned above are a slightly different "low self discharge" chemistry that will hold its charge for a long time, but cannot be left on the charger like your phone.

NiMH will not leak. It will provide a high level of power throughout almost all of the discharge cycle, unlike an alkaleak which starts out high and gradually tapers off. They do not develop memory, so they can be recharged at any time without concern. Unlike Li-Ion, it is a very safe technology. The cells can be recharged anywhere between 1,000 and 2,000 times.

The one disadvantage to NiMH is that they are 1.2 volts rather than 1.5 volts. So, in a small minority of devices, the low battery indicator will believe that the battery is low when in fact it is quite good. IF this impacts the functioning of the device, then you will have a problem. In the vast majority of devices, you will get better performance from NiMH even if the instructions say to use alkaleaks only (those instructions are primarily to keep people from using less expensive carbon-zinc, or sticking a 4.2 v. Li-Ion cell in a device that expects 1.5 v).

Eneloop AA and AAA are the gold standard for NiMH cells. However, their C and D cells are really just bundled AA or AAA cells. So, for more capacity, in the C and D sizes I use Tenergy Centura. I also use the Centuras in 9V, but the jury is still out on these.

I do not know of anyone who makes a 1/3 N size NiMH. As best I know, this size is limited to lithium primaries. The readily available NiMH cells are largely limited to AAA, AA, C, D, and 9V, although N-cells (about 1/2 of a AAA) can be found.

You do want to invest in a good charger, with Powerex Maha chargers being among the best. I use a Powerex Maha C808M for the ability to charge up to 8 cells at once, to charge AA, AAA, C, and D cells, and to automatically charge every cell type at the maximum current. I use a separate Powerex charger for 9v. The Powerex Maha C9000 is very popular for AAA and AA cells, for its ability to analyze cells as well as charge them. However, if you use this charger, be aware that the default charge voltage is 1A. This is fine for AA, which can be charged at up to 2A, but is a bit much for AAA, which is better charged at 0.7A and below. So, if you are charging AAA, you want to specifically program in the charge current.

I also use a Thrunite MCC4 charger for charging AA and AAA NiMH as well as 18650, 16650, and 16340 Li-Ion cells. This charger has worked quite well for me, but will be slower for AA cells.

[Hizzie]

The M5 uses AAA's (not sure if that is what you meant). As far as mounts, my understanding is it uses any Aimpoint Micro mount.

That is much more interesting.

[Wayne Dobbs]

As far as mounts, my understanding is it uses any Aimpoint Micro mount.

Correct.

[Mike C]

Correct.

Mr. Dobbs since the cats out of the bag and the optics are showing up in the wild now can you give a rough time frime when the masses might be able to start purchasing them? If not are there any details you'd be able to share? Thank you.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Mr. Dobbs since the cats out of the bag and the optics are showing up in the wild now can you give a rough time frime when the masses might be able to start purchasing them? If not are there any details you'd be able to share? Thank you.


No solid timeline. They have to fill the original Fed agency order first. I'd make a guess that there will be a formal introduction at SHOT 2018. It's all a guess though...

[Mike C]

Thank you Sir. I am really excited about the optics and can't wait.

[Default.mp3]

Some more info from TFB (take it for what it's worth): http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/06/01/aimpoint-aaa-comp-m5/

[Mike C]

Some more info from TFB (take it for what it's worth): http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/06/01/aimpoint-aaa-comp-m5/

I can do a year standing on my head if this thing is as durable as it's larger brethren. I've been waiting for something this size without a weird battery for ever it seems, man I am stoked. Thanks for the link Default.mp3.

[GRV]

Is it accurate to say that the overall size of this (sans battery hump) is a bit larger than a T2?

[Wayne Dobbs]

Is it accurate to say that the overall size of this (sans battery hump) is a bit larger than a T2?

No, I don't think that's a fair assessment.

Regarding comments on the durability of this sight compared to others, it's not accurate to say that the others are less durable than the CompM5. They're ALL durable beyond belief and have sustained blast damage, projectile damage, fire damage, etc. and have continued to work. Included in that are all the Comp 2 and Comp 3 (and therefore the PRO, too) and Micro series. The CompM4 takes durability to another level, but they're all tougher than anything that a typical LE use will bring to them.

[Mike C]

No, I don't think that's a fair assessment.

Regarding comments on the durability of this sight compared to others, it's not accurate to say that the others are less durable than the CompM5. They're ALL durable beyond belief and have sustained blast damage, projectile damage, fire damage, etc. and have continued to work. Included in that are all the Comp 2 and Comp 3 (and therefore the PRO, too) and Micro series. The CompM4 takes durability to another level, but they're all tougher than anything that a typical LE use will bring to them.

My comment wasn't a hit on durability. I wasn't saying the durability was less. I've personally had a CompM4 and a PRO model that have been beaten to shit on deployments and still worked like a champ. I was just saying I hope the CompM5 is as durable as previous generations. If so, I wouldn't care about waiting and would wait even longer for a good product.

[GRV]

No, I don't think that's a fair assessment.

Regarding comments on the durability of this sight compared to others, it's not accurate to say that the others are less durable than the CompM5. They're ALL durable beyond belief and have sustained blast damage, projectile damage, fire damage, etc. and have continued to work. Included in that are all the Comp 2 and Comp 3 (and therefore the PRO, too) and Micro series. The CompM4 takes durability to another level, but they're all tougher than anything that a typical LE use will bring to them.

What arguments besides possibly cost do you think there will be for going with a T2 over a CompM5?

[Wayne Dobbs]

What arguments besides possibly cost do you think there will be for going with a T2 over a CompM5?

Slightly more compact since there's not a protuberant battery compartment?? The T-2 in my opinion is the best sight Aimpoint makes right now. New optics package, new emitter and an even stronger housing (not really needed, but so what?) plus its light weight and small footprint make it a hard sight to beat. Plus, it uses a battery (CR2032) you can buy in a drugstore, Lowe's, grocery store, etc.

[JAD]

If I didn't have a really good reason to use an alkaline battery in a serious piece of gear, I would not do so. There just isn't enough incentive for cell makers to maintain high quality in that format. I would worry a lot about being able to consistently source good alkalines.

[ETA: I do of course grok the CONOPS of the subject sight. It just doesn't make any sense for an active member of a free market economy.]

NiMH is a low grade consumer secondary chemistry. Eneloops are a consumer product. Fujitsu eneloops are made in Japan and are second gen. Panasonic eneloops are fourth or fifth gen and are Chinese. Eneloop Pros are Japanese for now.

[BillSWPA]

If I didn't have a really good reason to use an alkaline battery in a serious piece of gear, I would not do so. There just isn't enough incentive for cell makers to maintain high quality in that format. I would worry a lot about being able to consistently source good alkalines.

NiMH is a low grade consumer secondary chemistry. Eneloops are a consumer product. Fujitsu eneloops are made in Japan and are second gen. Panasonic eneloops are fourth or fifth gen and are Chinese. Eneloop Pros are Japanese for now.

You can always use lithium 1.5 v. AAA cells.

All of the Panasonic Eneloops I have say made in Japan.

I have been phasing out alkaleaks for awhile now, and would not use them if another option was available. However, given the stated purpose of this optic, it makes sense to accept a battery type that can be found anywhere in the civilized world, even if it means using one from the TV remote in the hotel.


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[farscott]

What kind of AA are people using in the COMP M4? I am partial to Israeli Tadiran TL-5903 batteries, which use a primary lithium-thionyl chloride chemistry. The appeal for me is the ten-year shelf life, the capacity (2400mAH), the ability to source current from -55C (colder than I ever hope to be) to +85C (hotter than I ever hope to be), the strong construction, and the very flat voltage versus time discharge curve.

http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1769474.pdf?_ga=2.34775201.1881230962.1496445620-1672637719.1496445620

The functional negative is the nominal output voltage is 3.6V. I know the COMP M4 has an internal regulator, but I assume it is a linear. So the extra voltage becomes heat. (If the regulator is indeed a boost or a buck-boost, my admiration for Aimpoint reaches a new level.) The other negative is that these batteries are specialty batteries, so online shopping only.

[JAD]

Li primaries are OK, great density for a jelly roll, and awesome quiescence. Bummer is that Tadiran sold to Alcaltel who sold to Saft, who makes some of those cells in Germany and some in Zuhai. Caveat emptor.

ETA: yes, that's too much of a voltage mismatch.

[farscott]

Li primaries are OK, great density for a jelly roll, and awesome quiescence. Bummer is that Tadiran sold to Alcaltel who sold to Saft, who makes some of those cells in Germany and some in Zuhai. Caveat emptor.

ETA: yes, that's too much of a voltage mismatch.

I am not sure it is too much of a voltage mismatch as the real issue is power dissipated in the regulator and the junction temperature of the pass transistor in the regulator. Let's assume the battery is at 3.6V and the regulator output is at 0.8V. So that is 2.8V dropped across the regulator, and I am unaware of any regulator that cannot handle that. So the next step is power dissipation. 80,000 hours (from the Aimpoint literature) and a 2400mAh battery implies a steady-state current of 300uA worst-case. So we are looking at a power dissipation of 840uW. If we assume the thermal impedance of the package is 166C/W (which is pretty high for a SMT regulator), the temperature rise in the regulator is still insignificant.

[JAD]

I like your math just fine. Shows what I know; I'm just being over cautious, which with 600v batteries is kind of an occupational hazard.

[farscott]

I like your math just fine. Shows what I know; I'm just being over cautious, which with 600v batteries is kind of an occupational hazard.

Yeah, 600V is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I have designed three-phase motor drives with 340V DC link bus voltages and an induction cooktop that ran up to 1500V. Losing control there is a neat way to create a loud bang and a crater.

[KeeFus]

I picked up a Comp M5 from Larue yesterday (man, they send a kot of swag...paint mixer...?). Its going on my patrol rifle so it will get a fair amount of use over the next few months. Im kind of interested to see how it withstands the extreme temperature differences it will be exposed too in my patrol car. So far I like that its so compact compared to my PRO.

To be continued...

20647

[M2CattleCo]

Ha! Yeah Larue does send a lot of junk but their hats are great. I've wear out two or three a year and have been for about ten years.

[Mike C]

I picked up a Comp M5 from Larue yesterday (man, they send a kot of swag...paint mixer...?). Its going on my patrol rifle so it will get a fair amount of use over the next few months. Im kind of interested to see how it withstands the extreme temperature differences it will be exposed too in my patrol car. So far I like that its so compact compared to my PRO.

To be continued...

20647

Please let us know how you like the Comp M5.

[TCB]

There was one of these in a class I was in last week. With my eyesight it looked just like my 2 MOA T-1. The owner said it was takeing some getting used to as it’s a little longer than a T-1 and he was getting a little “looking through a tube” going on. Also, the brightness adjuster knob had already gotten loose and if bumped would turn the dot off. Sample of 1, and the class was pretty rough on gear.

[Lon]

Ha! Yeah Larue does send a lot of junk but their hats are great. I've wear out two or three a year and have been for about ten years.

For the love of God, man, Dillo Dust is not junk.

I will accept any bottles of Dillo Dust that people don’t want.

[SeriousStudent]

I honestly wish Larue would cut down on the stuff they through in, and shave $20+ off the price.

I used to have more of that stuff than I knew what to do with, so I started sending it downrange to friends/relatives who were deployed.

[Grizzly21]

I picked up a Comp M5 from Larue yesterday (man, they send a kot of swag...paint mixer...?). Its going on my patrol rifle so it will get a fair amount of use over the next few months. Im kind of interested to see how it withstands the extreme temperature differences it will be exposed too in my patrol car. So far I like that its so compact compared to my PRO.

To be continued...

20647

Keefus needs to order a rifle or 2 from Larue and see what kind of SWAG he gets!

[KeeFus]

Keefus needs to order a rifle or 2 from Larue and see what kind of SWAG he gets!

Says the guy with no kids... I will just shoot yours.

[runcible]

Says the guy with no kids... I will just shoot yours.

Come again?

[KeeFus]

Come again?

I will just shoot...his Larue’s He’s got...a few.

[Seth_yg]

Last time I got enough Dillo dust to coat a whole hog, probly will never use it all but man I do love that stuff...


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[KeeFus]

Finally got around to zeroing the Comp M5 today with Grizzly21. Griz and I have zeroed everyones rifles at our agency at 50 yards so we continued that pattern today. Took four 3 shots groups and it was GTG. Since I bought it I let it ride around in the trunk wih temps here fluctuating between low 40’s and mid 80’s and it survived...not that its an extreme test but the MRO Griz had last year didn't make it that far. I’m also leaving the dot on enough for me to see the dot good enough in daylight.

So far so good...

[KeeFus]

I saw on MrGunsandGear’s Facebook page where he received a new Comp M5 from Brownells and it wouldn't work out of the box. Of course Aimpoint is going to fix it but its an issue.

As far as mine...its still holding up well beating around in the trunk. Temps here have been in low 20’s this week and I checked the dot yesterday...still on and running. Grizzly21 and I along with some SWAT guys are going to the range tomorrow to run a few new courses of fire. I dont think the dot has moved so I expect no issues.

[JodyH]

I saw on MrGunsandGear’s Facebook page where he received a new Comp M5 from Brownells and it wouldn't work out of the box. Of course Aimpoint is going to fix it but its an issue.
I had a Micro T2 that was DOA from a vendor, so it's not a new issue for Aimpoint.

[OldRunner/CSAT Neighbor]

I had a Micro T2 that was DOA from a vendor, so it's not a new issue for Aimpoint.

As Jody related it can/does happen to all manufacturers. In AP’s case their having John Enloe to square you away is a HUGE plus IMO.

[John Hearne]

About 10 years ago, I had an Aimpoint Comp M2 die at its first range session. IIRC, there are some small allen head screws in the battery compartment that weren't tight and allowed the unit to short out. Aimpoint promptly replaced it with a new unit. Stuff slips through some times, even with the best....

[CS Tactical]

With my Astigmatism, the Comp M5 is even less distorted than the T-2 which is less distorted than the older models for me... When I buy another Aimpoint it will be the M5 as of right now, though I'll probably forego it for this http://bit.ly/2B1wQIa

[Mitch]

With my Astigmatism, the Comp M5 is even less distorted than the T-2 which is less distorted than the older models for me... When I buy another Aimpoint it will be the M5 as of right now, though I'll probably forego it for this http://bit.ly/2B1wQIa

I have a hard time with Aimpoints outside of the Pro any more. The M5/T2 are starting to creep into low power variable scope price range. I really want to like them but I just can’t make myself see them as almost twice as good as a pro.

I’m going to give an EOTech EXPS I got this fall (from CS Tactical [emoji41]) a fair shake, but if it doesn’t work out for me I think it’ll be a pro or a PST 1-6 that replaces it.


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[CS Tactical]

I have a hard time with Aimpoints outside of the Pro any more. The M5/T2 are starting to creep into low power variable scope price range. I really want to like them but I just can’t make myself see them as almost twice as good as a pro.

I’m going to give an EOTech EXPS I got this fall (from CS Tactical [emoji41]) a fair shake, but if it doesn’t work out for me I think it’ll be a pro or a PST 1-6 that replaces it.


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"I" have no distortion with the EoTech's though some people have more messed up eyes than me that have come in the shop. The PST Gen II 1-6 is the best LPV under $700 that I've personally tested IMO, I call it the 3/4 Razor Gen II for half the price.

[Mitch]

"I" have no distortion with the EoTech's though some people have more messed up eyes than me that have come in the shop. The PST Gen II 1-6 is the best LPV under $700 that I've personally tested IMO, I call it the 3/4 Razor Gen II for half the price.

So, I’m sorry for the thread drift, but can I ask you to expand on that a little? What does the PST give up to the razor outside of the 30mm vs 34mm tube? I’m sure there’s something just with the price difference because there’s no free lunch, but after a little research I’ve come up empty.


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[CS Tactical]

So, I’m sorry for the thread drift, but can I ask you to expand on that a little? What does the PST give up to the razor outside of the 30mm vs 34mm tube? I’m sure there’s something just with the price difference because there’s no free lunch, but after a little research I’ve come up empty.


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There are different tiers of Vortex scopes which the cheapest come from China (Strike Eagle for example), Philippines (PST 1-6), Japan or America (Razor or AMG). In this case the Razor Gen II made in Japan is a super reliable, durable and apparently duty/mil grade optic with Premium HD glass and coatings while the PST Gen II provides close enough optical quality and potentially less durable materials made in the Philippines. Does this make the PST a bad optic? No, but for a duty/mil/defensive rifle I'd choose the Razor Gen II.

[KeeFus]

I have an astigmatism. No matter the dot it’s distorted.

My Comp M5 is still going strong. Its been as low as 8 degrees here this week with the highs in the low to mid 30’s and the Dot is still going strong. I plan on some range time at the end of next week and the weather is supposed to be in the 50’s. I anticipate no issues.

[KeeFus]

Finally got around to zeroing the Comp M5 today with Grizzly21. Griz and I have zeroed everyones rifles at our agency at 50 yards so we continued that pattern today. Took four 3 shots groups and it was GTG. Since I bought it I let it ride around in the trunk wih temps here fluctuating between low 40’s and mid 80’s and it survived...not that its an extreme test but the MRO Griz had last year didn't make it that far. I’m also leaving the dot on enough for me to see the dot good enough in daylight.

So far so good...

Update!

I’ve been running this optic for about 1 year and 9ish months. It’s ridden in my trunk for all that time; been through two Patrol Rifle Instructor classes (NRA & FBI); a Firearms Instructor Development course with Esoteric; and qualified with it all along the way.

I had to move the dot once due to me not securing the Larue Mount well enough. Otherwise I moved the dot a couple clicks down one day while confirming zero. I did change the alkaline battery out for a lithium one but that was just precautionary...I didn’t want to need the dot and it not be there due to lack of changing the battery. I have kept it on the 6 or 7 position...never turned completely off. I check it daily as part of getting ready for duty.

This optic and the Larue Mount combo are GTG.