Carbon fiber or G10 edged weapon options

[StraitR]

We took a year off from Disney passes with the birth of our son last year, but my five year old daughter is itching to go and it's only a matter of time before we start back up. In fact, I have to go to Disney property tonight, but not into a park. Before the San Bernardino shooting, there were no metal detectors and I carried a no-lock 638 and Spyderco Endura, both AIWB, in every park. Since the addition of metal detectors, I've only carried a SF EB1, but I'd like to add an edged weapon to take with me to the land of the mouse.

I'm aware of carbon fiber and G10 blades, but not familiar with any. Open to belt or neck. I have zero edged weapon training, so basically a monkey with a screwdriver approach. Does anyone have any experience and/or recommendations?

[StraitR]

Thanks Tom, I like the idea, and the price. Definitely under consideration.

[theJanitor]

StraitR,

As you know, I'm running a Krein with the handle trimmed a bit. It was too long and the shortened handle makes concealment a bit easier.

If Ti resists the metal detector, Craig over at www.empireoutfitter.com has some ban tang blades for sale. He's also got some Ti blades by Fairly

my Krein, with a Mummert Ti clip installed
http://i.imgur.com/p56oIEl.jpg

[octagon]

Just some suggestions that may work.

https://www.weaponoutfitters.com/sheriff-of-baghdad-puncher-push-dagger.html

https://www.amazon.com/Polyresin-Non-Metallic-Letter-Opener-Serrated/dp/B0037ZHKHQ

http://spearpointtech.com/defensive-low-profile-system/

[RevolverRob]

I recently bought a Sentinel Gear Senka - it's all G10 with a metal-less kydex sheath. - https://sentinelgear.myshopify.com/collections/frontpage/products/senka - Unfortunately they are sold out currently, but Sentinel says they will be making more and putting them on their website from time to time. I like mine quite a bit and it works great for the gym (I wanted a non-metallic tool for gym work).

16963

FLC Knives makes a G10 spike - http://www.fatlazycatknives.com/category/self-defence-tools

Not too mention that FLC Knives is a P-F Supporting Vendor!

And while I am not a big fan of Cold Steel for their general tendencies to rip off custom knife makers designs, the Delta Dart - is a very inexpensive package that can work just fine for your approach -

Delta Dart - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/971293/cold-steel-delta-dart-fixed-blade-tactical-knife-3375-spear-point-zytel-blade-zytel-handle-black
Delta Dart Sheath - https://www.midwayusa.com/product/187009/cold-steel-delta-dart-neck-sheath-polymer-black

[JohnO]

John "Shrek" McPhee's SOB Puncher

http://sobtactical.com/store/punchers/

[UNK]

What about Special Circumstances knives http://specialcircumstancesinc.blogspot.com/p/product-gallery-knives.html and maybe a coin sap?

http://www.meangeneleather.com/shop/ I'v also seen a coin sap that was also a palm sap.
16965

Or maybe a monkeyfist https://monkeyarmor.com/

[jandbj]

https://twbrandsgear.com/products/non-metallic-tag?variant=12075672582

[okie john]

my Krein, with a Mummert Ti clip installed
http://i.imgur.com/p56oIEl.jpg

Which model is this?

Thanks,


Okie John

[theJanitor]

Which model is this?

Thanks,

Okie John

Not certain. I bought it direct from Krein awhile ago. I doubt I paid close to what AZCK is selling one for:

http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/g-10-neck-knife-by-tom-krein-162079.aspx?ReturnUrl=product-filter.aspx?MakersFilter%3D3821%26OrderBy%3DDateLi sted%20DESC%26Page%3D1%26ItemsPerPage%3D12

[Paul Sharp]

Solid suggestions so far. I would only suggest a paracord attachment method or shok-cord. You wouldn't want to go through the trouble of carrying a non-metallic knife only to have the screener pickup the metal clip attaching it to your belt or the metal chain around your neck.


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[Doug]

Solid suggestions so far. I would only suggest a paracord attachment method or shok-cord. You wouldn't want to go through the trouble of carrying a non-metallic knife only to have the screener pickup the metal clip attaching it to your belt or the metal chain around your neck.


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You don't want to get flagged with one. Carrying any type of fixed blade in Disney @ California is problematic

"12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

(4)Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger."

I do not know if there is an LEO exemption buried in the penal code for off duty.

Ymmv


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[HCM]

Not certain. I bought it direct from Krein awhile ago. I doubt I paid close to what AZCK is selling one for:

http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/g-10-neck-knife-by-tom-krein-162079.aspx?ReturnUrl=product-filter.aspx?MakersFilter%3D3821%26OrderBy%3DDateLi sted%20DESC%26Page%3D1%26ItemsPerPage%3D12

That is a cool knife but $250 ????

[okie john]

Not certain. I bought it direct from Krein awhile ago. I doubt I paid close to what AZCK is selling one for:

http://www.arizonacustomknives.com/g-10-neck-knife-by-tom-krein-162079.aspx?ReturnUrl=product-filter.aspx?MakersFilter%3D3821%26OrderBy%3DDateLi sted%20DESC%26Page%3D1%26ItemsPerPage%3D12

Thanks.


Okie John

[Mike C]

What about Special Circumstances knives http://specialcircumstancesinc.blogspot.com/p/product-gallery-knives.html and maybe a coin sap?

http://www.meangeneleather.com/shop/ I'v also seen a coin sap that was also a palm sap.
16965

Or maybe a monkeyfist https://monkeyarmor.com/

Anyone with experience with the meangeneleather coin saps? I am looking at on for carry in Mexico. I saw them in TPI the other night but haven't had a chance to ask about them yet. PM me if you don't want to thread drift.

[BillSWPA]

G10 seems to be one of the best materials for this type of knife.

In general, the edge will be worth little or nothing, but the point will be quite useful. So, you want a design that focuses on providing 3 dimensional support to the point, rather than a flat design that provides an edge but only 2 dimensional support to the point.


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[theJanitor]

The edge on the krein is surprisingly sharp, and toothy. It'll certainly cut flesh easily

[Norville]

Which model is this?

Thanks,


Okie John


That looks like a TK-8. I have one in D2, amazing blade.

[StraitR]

Great suggestions. I really like the Tom Krein blade, no real surprise, and that exact knife was the inspiration for starting this thread. I generally go the "buy once, cry once" route, but this is somewhat of a special circumstances use and I'm inclined to something that can be pitched in a trashcan without thought. Still looking into the many suggestions.

My original plan, to keep it all non-metalic, was to carry it as a neck knife using 550 cord with cord lock.

Looks like the punishments are stiff for such things at Disneyland in Cali, but as Tom noted, we're central FL residents and Disney World patrons. You're simply 86'd from Disney property at their discretion if caught here, no different than Target or other private property with "no weapons allowed" signs unless specified by FL law (like professional sporting events).

[BillSWPA]

Great suggestions. I really like the Tom Krein blade, no real surprise, and that exact knife was the inspiration for starting this thread. I generally go the "buy once, cry once" route, but this is somewhat of a special circumstances use and I'm inclined to something that can be pitched in a trashcan without thought. Still looking into the many suggestions.

My original plan, to keep it all non-metalic, was to carry it as a neck knife using 550 cord with cord lock.

Looks like the punishments are stiff for such things at Disneyland in Cali, but as Tom noted, we're central FL residents and Disney World patrons. You're simply 86'd from Disney property at their discretion if caught here, no different than Target or other private property with "no weapons allowed" signs unless specified by FL law (like professional sporting events).

With the exception of some of the stuff that comes specifically from Special Circumstances, such as the ceramic core polymer coated knives, you are generally wasting your money if you are spending more than $40-$50 on a polymer knife. I have bought a couple of expensive ones, and have not found them to be particularly better than an $8 CIA Letter Opener form A. G. Russell. At the $8-$12 price range, it becomes relatively painless to own several.

One of the best such blades I have come across is a Colt S.P.E.A.R Pack Knife. Unfortunately they are no longer made, so they may be hard to find. They are not only well made from G10, but are also single edge with a short blade length, presenting some possible (but in no way guaranteed to succeed) arguments for legality of carry in states wherein fixed blades are legal. Dark Star makes a well-designed sheath for them, providing flexibility in carry methods. On of these could easily be fastened to a Chris Fry/Raven Pocket Shield.


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[Chuteur]

You don't want to get flagged with one. Carrying any type of fixed blade in Disney @ California is problematic

"12020. (a) Any person in this state who does any of the following
is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year
or in the state prison:

(4)Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger."

I do not know if there is an LEO exemption buried in the penal code for off duty.

Ymmv


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Try the UK, Denmark, or Germany for knife law. It more or less all boils down to nothing over 3 inches including lock knives which is why Sal over at Spyderco made some fiendishly clever models for the UK and Denmark which did not lock. The UKPK model and I think the Danish one was the DKPK.

I have even seen people pulled and have the larger multitool type knife confiscated. And soldiers coming back from deployment have had tactical style knives confiscated at customs.

If you carry a blade the law requires: Lawful authority, or reasonable excuse, ie you need it for work, or you better be Bear Grylls out in the wild.

[Chuteur]

Great suggestions. I really like the Tom Krein blade, no real surprise, and that exact knife was the inspiration for starting this thread. I generally go the "buy once, cry once" route, but this is somewhat of a special circumstances use and I'm inclined to something that can be pitched in a trashcan without thought. Still looking into the many suggestions.

My original plan, to keep it all non-metalic, was to carry it as a neck knife using 550 cord with cord lock.

Looks like the punishments are stiff for such things at Disneyland in Cali, but as Tom noted, we're central FL residents and Disney World patrons. You're simply 86'd from Disney property at their discretion if caught here, no different than Target or other private property with "no weapons allowed" signs unless specified by FL law (like professional sporting events).

The company my wife worked for a few years ago was a major third party provider to the Mouse-Universum so she knew some folks there. Word is that their security folks in Fl can be a bit gangbusters if they have a mind to be, or take a dislike. They actually had the right to establish a Disney World PD, they did not take it up and deferred to either Orlando PD or the Sheriff, can't remember which.

Just saying.

[theJanitor]

Has anyone replace the metal rivets in the Kydex sheaths with a non-metallic substitute? Is it even necessary. I have a Ti belt clip, or a comp-tac clip on my Krein, but use metal screws. I'm wondering if I should modify it more

[RevolverRob]

Has anyone replace the metal rivets in the Kydex sheaths with a non-metallic substitute? Is it even necessary. I have a Ti belt clip, or a comp-tac clip on my Krein, but use metal screws. I'm wondering if I should modify it more

So there is enough metal to get caught up in more finely tuned magnetometers. Most hand-held wand-type ones won't catch it, but static ones may.

If you do replace them, you have a few options. Paracord laced through the holes and cinched very tight. I tried this with my Senka but never got enough tension, I'd think you'd have to REALLY weave it tight.

Other alternatives non-metallic rivets or Nylon nuts and bolts, or you can do what I did...zip-ties. Just make sure you file/sand down the ends after you clip them, or they WILL stab/cut you at an inopportune time. Any of these options should be found at your local Home Depot/Lowes. :cool:

17189

[theJanitor]

i'm thinking gutted paracord, pulled tight, then epoxy the cord, just like the knife handles

[RevolverRob]

i'm thinking gutted paracord, pulled tight, then epoxy the cord, just like the knife handles

It should work. I'm kind of lazy and after an hour of wrapping-rewrapping I couldn't find my desired tension. So I said screw it and broke out the zip-ties. In retrospect if I had clamped the sheath with some small clamps, I probably could have woven the cord tight enough for the correct tension. The one upside to the zipties is the won't stretch like gutted cord will. Several folks I've talked with said that they have found plastic rivets to work really well in place of metal ones.

[BillSWPA]

A well designed sheath for a nonmetallic blade should also have no metal. Most that I have seen just rely on the molding of the Kydex to hold the knife in place, without rivets. I have seen some use plastic Chicago screws, which can be purchased in bulk inexpensively. Dark Star supplied their sheaths with an elastic cord for attaching the shaath to something else, like a belt or Chris Fry/Raven Pocket Shield.

[TDA]

I started thinking along the same lines after a recent trip to Universal when security sent me back to the hotel rather than let me in with my Swiss Army knife.

I got kind of excited when I saw this one-
https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2016/12/29/sheriff-of-baghdad-tactical-puncher/
But $60 for a G10 laminate anything seems really excessive.

[Totem Polar]

Just saw these:

https://vzgrips.com/knives/vz-knives

18102


Those look really cool. Not sure what to do about a sheath. The specs weren't much help.

Also, I have the same Sentinel Senka as RevolverRob and it's great, pointy piece of kit. JMO.

[Odin Bravo One]

I have a Ti/CF blade and a Ceramic/CF blade from Ian at specialized circumstances. Carried the former during my last Afghanistan pump, and it held up well. Even though it wasn't a GP/Utility knife, it did what I asked of it. Anything sharp is better than fists of fury alone, and the $20 options look great, especially if you have a habit of dropping your knives into the bay after you've used them once.

[SLUZENE]

Hope it's OK to bump an old thread. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned that carbon fiber is a no go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSW9J814b-w

There's also the stuff from Black Triangle credit to Totem Polar
https://blktriangle.com/collections/hard-goods

[BillSWPA]

Cold Steel's Skean Dhu is one of my favorite current production polymer knives. That specific knife is tested between 4:18 and 5:00 on the linked video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XoEgqLJMQw

Obviously the metal ring should be removed. The knife is surprisingly flexible, but the video speaks for itself. The serrated edge provides some cutting potential, and the single edge design helps provide arguments for for legality of carry.

The FGX Balisong - particularly the double edge version - is very effective with its rigid blade and serrated edges. Unfortunately it is only useful where a double edge 5 1/2" blade Balisong is legal to carry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JMea1NReOE

[PNWTO]

There's also the stuff from Black Triangle...
https://blktriangle.com/collections/hard-goods

I’ve got a few items from Black Triangle and they are fantastic for the purpose; my PCT-L has been in a lot of NPEs.

[SLUZENE]

I’ve got a few items from Black Triangle and they are fantastic for the purpose; my PCT-L has been in a lot of NPEs.

How secure does the PCT feel in the hand? My cold steel push dagger (Cold Steel 43XL Urban Edge 2-1/2") twists a bit as most people seem to experience. The handle design of the Black Triangle PCT looks a little odd, and the VZ Push Daggers seem to have the closest handle geometry to the awesome Shivworks Push Daggers.

While not G10, this guy looks really slick.
https://www.zulubravokydex.com/product/titanium-dart

Ian Wendt / Special Circumstances made great blades.

[PNWTO]

How secure does the PCT feel in the hand?.

I’ve thought about trying a small cord wrap just to see if it can fill the palm better but for how minimalist it is I think it is good enough. I bought the trainer version and after a few reps on a bag and an archery target there is some rolling but for quick, multiple, and compressed strikes I wouldn’t worry.

I hesitate to compare it to better offerings but for ungentlemenly use I’m happy.

[RevolverRob]

So it would appear that Black Triangle is just Sentinel Concealment Gear reborn? I hope they are a little better at business management this time. I like my Sentinel-made Senka as an NPE tool and I'm glad I got it before Sentinel went all tits-up and screwed over some customers with unfulfilled orders.

The VZ Diamante is bigger, but a nice nasty looking piece of non-metallic kit - https://vzgrips.com/products/vz-diamante-daggers-g10.html - I'd love to get one and test it out against something like a pig carcass just to see how well it does as a stabber.

[PNWTO]

So it would appear that Black Triangle is just Sentinel Concealment Gear reborn?

That’s my understanding, BT owner was a Sentinel friend/user.

[SLUZENE]

I'd love one of the VZ Grips PDs with a DCC clipped sheath for a weight conscious but non metal detector concern. All the current VZ grips sheaths require a belt. Might have to roll my own sheath. While the Raven Clips (as used by Black Triangle, others) have their purpose, I would vastly prefer to daily carry with a metal DCC clip. If anyone cares to toss out a reputable maker who can make that happen please let me know.

You can take me out of ECQC/EWO, but can't take ECQC/EWO out of me. ;)


So it would appear that Black Triangle is just Sentinel Concealment Gear reborn? I hope they are a little better at business management this time. I like my Sentinel-made Senka as an NPE tool and I'm glad I got it before Sentinel went all tits-up and screwed over some customers with unfulfilled orders. [...]

Hasn't this been referred to as knifemaker's disease? Sadly, not well known to science. Chargebacks always get attention if things do not go as agreed. Thankfully the lead time on the Black Triangle stuff is short. I screenshot the website for ordered knives and of course pay with a credit card. But if a knife is advertised beyond 60 days lead time I get a bit nervous.

[757_Magnum]

For those of you PFers who are into orange colored gear, they're releasing Halloween edition Creepers at 6pm EST tonight.

[Yung]

I've no experience with any of his stuff, but I remember Morgan Atwood was mentioned a few times in the past.

https://www.noonecoming.com/product/peanut-pikal/
https://www.noonecoming.com/product/variant/

[BillSWPA]

I've no experience with any of his stuff, but I remember Morgan Atwood was mentioned a few times in the past.

https://www.noonecoming.com/product/peanut-pikal/
https://www.noonecoming.com/product/variant/

Morgan Atwood is a name I have not heard in some time, but he is a good guy who is serious about product design as well as customer service. He is also a martial artist, so he understands the whys of the designs and the carry systems.

Glad to learn he is still around and still making stuff.

[SLUZENE]

I've no experience with any of his stuff, but I remember Morgan Atwood was mentioned a few times in the past.

https://www.noonecoming.com/product/peanut-pikal/
https://www.noonecoming.com/product/variant/

Where did you find this maker? Usually I poke around instagram, but there's always another maker I have yet to hear of.


Morgan Atwood is a name I have not heard in some time, but he is a good guy who is serious about product design as well as customer service. He is also a martial artist, so he understands the whys of the designs and the carry systems.

Glad to learn he is still around and still making stuff.

I believe Morgan Atwood (and Ian Wendt) are both Shivworks alumni based on our chats, which gives me a warm+fuzzy as a knife buyer.

[BillSWPA]

Where did you find this maker? Usually I poke around instagram, but there's always another maker I have yet to hear of.



I believe Morgan Atwood (and Ian Wendt) are both Shivworks alumni based on our chats, which gives me a warm+fuzzy as a knife buyer.

I interacted with and bought a knife from Morgan back when Self Defense Forums was the place for serious self defense students to interact.


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[Yung]

Where did you find this maker? Usually I poke around instagram, but there's always another maker I have yet to hear of.

BFE Labs was first mentioned once or twice on these forums around 2014 when I was still lurking and had not registered an account yet. It was also linked by Greg Ellifritz in one of his Weekly Knowledge Dumps on his blog.

Glen Stilson and Cecil Burch are local to me and both mentioned Morgan's work in one of their classes sometime between 2018 and the end of last year. He was most recently brought back to my attention by Annette Evans several months ago for authoring one of the few comprehensive write-ups in the early days of the covid outbreak, under the No One Coming rebrand.

To add a bit more context the above, I do not carry edged weapons and have never attended training to use them.

[kobuksonhwacha]

Morgan at No One Coming and Matt at Zulu Bravo Kydex are the two makers I would seriously consider for custom nonmetallic blades. Both are serious students as well as craftsmen, and know first-hand what a tool must do under the pressures of coursework such as ECQC/others offered by the Shivworks Collective. For a production option, Morgan has stated the VZ daggers aren't a bad option.

[SLUZENE]

I had no idea BFE labs is now No one Coming. Thank you guys. Here's some older content of Atwood and Wendt:

https://www.youtube.com/user/BFELabs
https://www.youtube.com/user/Voidrunner01

[SLUZENE]

I interacted with and bought a knife from Morgan back when Self Defense Forums was the place for serious self defense students to interact.
[...]

I don't know what happened to a lot of forums, but many are not what the used to be. :confused:

[kobuksonhwacha]

I don't know what happened to a lot of forums, but many are not what the used to be. :confused:

Super thread drift inbound, but it seems a high percentage of dialed in conversation in our realms has shifted to social media sites, for better or worse.