IWI X95 Review and Range Report

[Sensei]

The X95 was released in the US 15 months ago as the next evolution of the popular IWI Tavor. Sporting an improved trigger, forward magazine release, and more user friendly rail space, the X95 has so far been a commercial success despite initial lackluster accuracy reports. Well, its been a year, so I picked up an OD Green X95 as a “traveling gun” to replace my SBRs when going out of state. Going into this project, I was hoping for a gun that was built around the STANG magazine, similar in size to a 10.5” AR, and able to keep most barrier blind loads under 3 MOA out to 300 yards. Here is my initial report and comparison to a Steyr AUG A3 M1.

Purchase date: 5/5/17
Cost: $1500 + $30 shipping under IWI’s 1st Responder Program
SN: T00732XX
Overall Length: 27”
Weight Empty: 8lb even on my scale;

The rifle arrives in a cardboard box with a Gen3 PMAG, cleaning kit, and manual. I first removed the factory flash hider, and installed a Surefire SF3P-556 behind the jam nut. Alignment of the flash hider and a Surefire SOCOM 556-RC2 suppressor was confirmed with a Geissele Alignment Rod. The factory hand guard was also replaced with the low profile trigger guard which can be had for $20 direct from IWI. I also field stripped, cleaned and lubricated the rifle. This included cleaning the barrel with Bore Tech Copper Remover (5 wet patches, nylon brush, 2 wet patches, and 5 dry patches). I then reassembled the rifle and function checked it.

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Trigger
The trigger is good by bullpup standards. It is noticeably lighter than the Tavor’s, but has a rolling breaking compared to the more crisp break found in most decent AR triggers. I measured the pull weight right at 5 lbs with a distinct reset. This is much better than the 9.5 lb break on my AUG factory trigger.

Sights and Optics
The rifle has integral BUIS that fold into the top rail. The front sight has a white dot for faster target acquisition. For optics, I’m using an Aimpoint Micro T2 on a Larue LT660 (1/3 co-witness).

Now a word about optics mounts which can be problematic given how high the top rail sits over the stock. Most people will need a mount that would normally provide a 1/3 co-witness on an AR to get an absolute co-witness on the X95 when using a tradition cheek-to-stock weld. Shorter mounts such as the LT751 (absolute co-witness on an AR) will force the shooter into an awkward head position to see the optic.

This higher mount is important to note because the X95 already has a high rail over bore distance. Most optics on an AR’s sit at around 2.5-2.7 inches sight over bore and most calibrated reticles such as the ACOG assume this height. My Aimpoint sits closer to 3.5 inches on the X95. This extra inch makes bullet drop reticles very inaccurate for you ACOG lovers, and has profound impact on zero distances as you will later see. So, for magnification I’m using either an older Aimpoint 3X or the newer 6X detachable magnifier on a Larue LT755 flip-to-side mount. The 6X is a bit longer and has a much smaller eye box than its 3X cousin, but the added magnification helpful in getting an initial zero and making accuracy comparisons for this review.

Operation
One advantage of the high sight over the bore axis is that the charging handle is low and very easy to manipulate without racking your knuckles on the top rail or optic mounts. This is a constant problem with my AUG as I must alway remember to retract the charging handle palm up or else go home with bloody knuckles.

For illumination, I’ve attached a Thorntail SBR offset mount for the Surefire M300 Scout that my kid plans to get me for Father Day. By placing the mount on the 12 o’clock rail just behind the folded front sight, the light will sit at about 11 o’clock and I can keep the factory covers on the side rails.

Range Performance
I brought a mixture of Gen 3 PMAGs, Lancer L5AWM, and metal GI mags (BCM purchase) to the range for testing. Ammo included Lake City XM193, RA556B, Hornady 5.56 55 grain TAP GMX, and some left over SSA 77 grain Sierra OTM. The comparison rifle was a Steyr AUG A3 M1 with factory Steyr magazines, factory trigger, and a Leupold 1.24-4X VX-R Patrol in Leupold low mount rings.

Reliability
Initial reliability testing involved cycling 30 rounds of XM195 fired from PMAGs, Lacers, and GI mags (total of 90 rounds). There were no stoppages and all mags dropped free. In addition, there were no stoppages during accuracy testing with any of the listed loads in the X95. A total of 190 rounds were fired through the X95. The AUG does not cycle RA556B and will experience a FTF about every 5 or 6 rounds with this and other rounded tip loads. However the AUG has reliably cycled about 1000 rounds of mostly M193 and M855, along with a few mags of 55 grain GMX and 69 grain SMK.

Accuracy

Temperature: 77F
Pressure: 33 inHg
Wind: ~ 5 mph

Accuracy testing was performed from a Caldwell Shooters V front sandbag and homemade rear sandbag. Optics were the previously mentioned T2 ahead of a 6X magnifier. A 75 meter zero was chosen to account for the 3.5” height over bore. This gives a relatively flat trajectory between 25-250 yards for most loads with no more than 2 inches of vertical variance. Once zero’ed, accuracy testing was performed using 5 shot groups of RA556B, TAP GMX, and SSA 77 grain OTM. The SSA returned the best accuracy with a max spread of 1.683” (1.61 MOA), followed by the 55 grain GMX at 2.407” (2.30 MOA), and the RA556B 3.075" (2.94 MOA). The AUG delivered nearly identical performance with GMX (2.41 MOA). Next, a 10 shot group was performed with the GMX which returned an extreme spread of 2.66” (2.55 MOA) in the X95.

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Velocity
An average of 5-shot groups were as follows:

GMX - 3201 +/- 22 fps
RA556B - 2990 +/- 10 fps; these numbers are higher than published specs and previous evaluations.

Suppressed Performance
A Surefire SOCOM 556-RC2 suppressor was attached to the rifle. A 30 round mag of XM193 was fired without malfunction. There was a little more gas to face that I get from my ARs, but it did not hamper my performance. Then, 5 rounds of the GMX was fired to test shifts in point of impact. There was a 4” shift in impact due South with this load. This was the most shift that I’ve ever experienced with this suppressor on any rifle. I’ll update the thread once more testing has been performed with other loads and a Surefire SOCOM 556 Mini-2.

Summary
This particular IWI X95 demonstrates acceptable accuracy in the 2-3 MOA range with barrier blind loads and 1.5-2 MOA with factory OTM ammunition. I say acceptable since a more precise reticle than the Aimpoint's 2 MOA dot, and higher magnification than 6X would have inevitably tightened the groups even more than what was seen. Reliability was 100% with all loads tested which is actually superior to my AUG that will not cycle Winchester RA556B and most other rounded tip loads. Although the weapon cycles suppressed, there was a sizable shift in POI. Additional testing will be performed and the thread updated.

[Oukaapie]

I ran my X95 through a Super Dave course last year with zero problems. Very cool bullpup but I do miss the Tavor mag release. Overall I prefer the X95's handling though.

[LittleLebowski]

Fantastic review, thanks for sharing. Wish you lived closer.

[Colt191145lover]

Great review !
I have been keeping a eye on these but there sure was a lot of talk about accuracy issues when they first came out . Yours seems to be a improvement , very promising .
Thanks again for taking the time to do a review.

[Beat Trash]

I bought an X95 through a LEO sales program dealer last September. I had similar accuracy results as listed above. Mine would average around 3/4" groups at 50 yes when shooting Winchester RA556B. The gun was equipped with an Aimpoint T-1 with no magnifier.

Mine would not hold the bolt open with MagPul gen1 and gen2 PMAGs. But zero issues when using gen3 PMAGs.

I ended up selling mine off last week. I can't carry an X95 as a Patrol Rifle. The difference in the offsets from my 16" AR's compared to the offer with the X95 made me have to concentrate on off sets when shooting the X95. I found the weight rearward on the X95 made it a joy to shoot when up close, or when shooting with one hand. The weight rearward made it a challenge to shoot multiple targets or to shoot at a distance, or from a bench rest position.

The X95 was great for those times when one would be tempted to use an AR pistol, or when an HK P5 would have been preferred due to compactness. For now, my X95 sat in the safe, so it got sold off.

WHEn I retire in a couple of years and travel more often, I might consider picking up another X95.

[Sensei]

I ran my X95 through a Super Dave course last year with zero problems. Very cool bullpup but I do miss the Tavor mag release. Overall I prefer the X95's handling though.

The Tavor mag realease position in relation to the bolt hold open allows for some wicked fast mag changes for people proficient with the platform. I think the X95's more "ARish" mag release was a bit of a compromise to guys like me who spend 90+% of our time around the AR and want to take advantage of that muscle memory.


Fantastic review, thanks for sharing. Wish you lived closer.
You are more than welcome.


I bought an X95 through a LEO sales program dealer last September. I had similar accuracy results as listed above. Mine would average around 3/4" groups at 50 yes when shooting Winchester RA556B. The gun was equipped with an Aimpoint T-1 with no magnifier.

Mine would not hold the bolt open with MagPul gen1 and gen2 PMAGs. But zero issues when using gen3 PMAGs.

I ended up selling mine off last week. I can't carry an X95 as a Patrol Rifle. The difference in the offsets from my 16" AR's compared to the offer with the X95 made me have to concentrate on off sets when shooting the X95. I found the weight rearward on the X95 made it a joy to shoot when up close, or when shooting with one hand. The weight rearward made it a challenge to shoot multiple targets or to shoot at a distance, or from a bench rest position.

The X95 was great for those times when one would be tempted to use an AR pistol, or when an HK P5 would have been preferred due to compactness. For now, my X95 sat in the safe, so it got sold off.

WHEn I retire in a couple of years and travel more often, I might consider picking up another X95.

Yep, this gun will not replace my ARs except when traveling across state lines. I sometimes have little warning before hitting the road and my last couple of Forms 5320.20 have taken weeks.

My biggest reservation with this gun has to do with a commonality among bullpups and that is the mechanisms connecting the forward trigger and magazine releases to the trigger pack and mag well at the rear of the gun. In most bullpups and the Tavor/X95 particularly, those mechanisms sit right below the charging handle slot - easily accessible to mud and grime that is hard to then clear in the field. Thus, there are plenty of YouTube videos showing the Tavor/X95 suffering spectacular failures that deadline the gun after being dropped in muddy water or sand (of all things in an Israeli gun). While I have no plans to perform a mud test on this rifle, the failure reports are pretty numerous and follow a pattern of frozen trigger +/- one or more dead mag releases.

So, I've weighed the pros and cons and accepted that the X95 would not be a great gun for Jungle Phase or an amphibious assault. However, it is more than acceptable as a temporary long gun to accompany my family on vacation where there is a great need for compact size, maneuverability, etc.

[ldunnmobile]

I like my X95. I think a lot of people compare them to AR's and it just apples to oranges. It's a different tool in the toolbox than a 16" AR.

FYI Sensei I have the Manticore gasketed port cover and I'm getting almost zero gas to face suppressed.

[Beat Trash]

Yep, this gun will not replace my ARs except when traveling across state lines. I sometimes have little warning before hitting the road and my last couple of Forms 5320.20 have taken weeks.



And this is why I bought my X95. The one time I didn't bring a long gun on a vacation/road trip, my wife and I took her father and his wife on a week long stay to Sanibel Florida. Two days into the vacation, hurricane Mathew threatened to hit south Florida and the entire eastern seaboard headed west to visit. This made leaving not an option and the roads were already packed to the point of being shut down.

In-between mentally kicking myself in the butt for not tossing a long gun into the trunk prior to leaving, I kept thinking that an X95 would be perfect for this situation. Especially when thinking of taking a hit from the hurricane and having to spend some time in an environment where services were minimized or shut down temporarily.

I did some research and bought a FDE X95 when I got back.

Like many manufactures, IWI refused to admit there was ever an accuracy issue with any of the X95 carbines. But the internet suggested there was an issue with the early guns. IWI quietly made corrections and the accuracy issues went away. This was about the time that the bolt was changed from a single ejector to a dual ejector.

I liked mine well enough for it's specific task. But at this point in my life, I can get by with a broken down AR for travel. I'm using the money that was in the X95 for a quality 1-? optic.

In a couple of years when I retire, I may well get another X95 as a dedicated travel gun.

[breakingtime91]

Awesome review! Thanks for sharing.

[Sensei]

FYI Sensei I have the Manticore gasketed port cover and I'm getting almost zero gas to face suppressed.

Thanks, I'll look into the Manticore cover. Do you mind if I ask what suppressor you are running and the amount of POI shift?

I was getting a BIG (3-4" at 100 yards) downward shift with a SF SOCOM-2; much more than I've ever seen. I'm taking it out today with a SF Mini-2 and some other loads to see what shift I get.

[ldunnmobile]

Thanks, I'll look into the Manticore cover. Do you mind if I ask what suppressor you are running and the amount of POI shift?

I was getting a BIG (3-4" at 100 yards) downward shift with a SF SOCOM-2; much more than I've ever seen. I'm taking it out today with a SF Mini-2 and some other loads to see what shift I get.

I don't know yet. I've been muddling over what optic to run and have been busy with other stuff that I haven't been able to really test it.

Suppressor is a Rugged Razor.

[ShooterM9]

Thanks for the great review! I just got my X95 the other day and am looking forward to shaking it out at the range.

[breakingtime91]

I travel a lot, most of it in open desert where I want a short rifle that can fit in a small bag. I originally thought an AR pistol but like the idea of a 16 inch barrel... think I need to try a tavor.

[HCM]

I travel a lot, most of it in open desert where I want a short rifle that can fit in a small bag. I originally thought an AR pistol but like the idea of a 16 inch barrel... think I need to try a tavor.

Two words, Law Folder...

[Doc_Glock]

Outstanding write up. Thanks for doing it.

As much as I love my FS2000 and bull pups in general I have slowly become assimilated to AR world. The IWI product is tempting.

The height over bore issue sounds super annoying. I don’t remember exactly, but 3.5” sounds about as high as the PS90.

[breakingtime91]

Two words, Law Folder...

Yea but I try not to add complications to a proven system if I can help it..

[HCM]

Yea but I try not to add complications to a proven system if I can help it..

The Gen III law folder is a proven option. The extra length added to the cycle of operation actually helps reliability similar to the Vltor A5 system.

As much as I irrationally love the AUG, there are some real down sides to bullpups and you are giving up a lot of training / time on the AR platform.

[Beat Trash]

I owned an X95 for a few months. I initially bought it to be used as a travel/trunk gun after thinking I may have been stuck in SW Florida when Hurricane Mathew was inbound. At the time I was in Florida, the only weapon I had with me was a 12 shot M&P9c (1.0).

My X95 had a useable trigger. In theory, the concept made sense.

The issues I had ended up being deal breakers for me, such as:

The height over bore is much greater than an AR. Workable if it was the only gun you shot. But I’ve got too many years on the AR Platform and I had to give a lot of Conscious thought about the additional height overbore when I shot The X95.

Finding an effective way to mount a white light was more of a challenge than I thought it would be. You only have so much room on the handguard. And you needed room for your hand. Ended up with a MagPul VFG and an Inforce WMLx.

It was good in tight spaces, but when I stepped outside, it was harder for me to “work” the gun for lack of a better term.

Finding a position to effectively shoot the gun from a bench rest position was insanely harder than you’d expect.

Accuracy wasn’t impressive. At all... A stock Colt 6920 would outshoot my X95 from a bench at 100 yds.

What sealed it for me was when I took a Colt 6920 with MagPul furniture and an Aimpoint T-1 and my X95, also with a T-1. and did some shooting drills using both guns, side by side. Noticeable difference. I put the X96 up for sale that day.

I currently use a Daniel Defense V7P as my travel gun. If I wanted the advantage of a 16” barrel, I’d either get a Law folder or look hard at a Sig Virtus Patrol. Their LE version comes in black and has a shorter handguard.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I've owned a Tavor SAR version for several years and simply adore the carbine. It remains my travel gun and something short for storing in my Winnebago when out and about.

[Doc_Glock]

What sealed it for me was when I took a Colt 6920 with MagPul furniture and an Aimpoint T-1 and my X95, also with a T-1. and did some shooting drills using both guns, side by side. Noticeable difference. I put the X96 up for sale that day.

if you get time can you be more specific about just what differences you noticed?

[Beat Trash]

The height over bore was an issue. It’s something I could have trained through. But I had to constantly pay attention with the X95, whereas with my AR’s it’s not something I have to give as much thought to due to years of training and practice.

My split times with the X95 were slower than with the 6920. My split times with a 6920 are slower than they are with one of my midlength has AR’s with a 15” handguard.

The X95 wasn’t purchased for 3 gun competition. Was the split times good enough for the intended purpose of the X95?
Probably...?

For some reason, it was difficult to shoot from a bench rest accurately with the X95. It could be done, but it took much more effort than an AR, or even an AR pistol.

Transition from target to target was slower for me with the X95 when I was on a timer. This was to be expected with how close my support hand had to be to my body due to the short OAL than I am with an AR with a 15” handguard, or even a Colt 6920.

The rubber butt plate would catch on my clothing. IWI makes a nice, thin hard plastic replacement, but installing it shortens the OAL of the weapon to where it now becomes a SBR. (Gotta love NFA rules...) If you have an 18” X95, then you’re good to go. But I was buying an X95 for the short OAL, so I didn’t get the appeal of the 18” barrels.

Manual of arms for a magazine change felt funky when used to using an AR. I was never as fast as I am with an AR, but it wasn’t as bad as I’d assume it would be prior to actually owning one.

Things I remember surprising me were how easy it was to maneuver in a tight space, like a hallway. I also assumed it would be loud to shoot with the muzzle being closer to my face. But I really didn’t find it any louder to shoot than a traditional 16” AR using the same ammunition.

Bottom line is the X95 had potential to be a viable option for what I needed. But it didn’t work out as I would have hoped. Had the accuracy been on par with an AUG, or if the height over bore wouldn’t have been so much larger than an AR, or... if it were the only gun I shot so that I had the height over bore drilled into my brain, I’d probably have kept it.

Could it be a viable option for someone else to use as a travel gun that needs to have a small footprint? I definitely think so. I say this because I feel ALL of the issues I had with my X95 boiled down to personal preference. The gun was reliable, and accurate enough for the intended task.

[WobblyPossum]

The Gen III law folder is a proven option. The extra length added to the cycle of operation actually helps reliability similar to the Vltor A5 system.

As much as I irrationally love the AUG, there are some real down sides to bullpups and you are giving up a lot of training / time on the AR platform.

That’s the route I’m going for a travel long gun because it offers a few things I like:
No NFA paperwork to deal with, commonality with my issued carbine, can be transported loaded in many jurisdictions that don’t allow transport of loaded rifles. I hadn’t thought of the extra length acting in the same manner as an A5 setup. I was going to build the lower with an A5 but now I think I’ll just use my Geissele coupon to purchase a lower and one of their Super 42 setups. I don’t know if the length of the A5, when added to the length of the Law Folder, would be too much of a good thing.

[HCM]

That’s the route I’m going for a travel long gun because it offers a few things I like:
No NFA paperwork to deal with, commonality with my issued carbine, can be transported loaded in many jurisdictions that don’t allow transport of loaded rifles. I hadn’t thought of the extra length acting in the same manner as an A5 setup. I was going to build the lower with an A5 but now I think I’ll just use my Geissele coupon to purchase a lower and one of their Super 42 setups. I don’t know if the length of the A5, when added to the length of the Law Folder, would be too much of a good thing.

Even if it’s not too much of a good thing functionally, the LAW folder also adds a bit to the LOP. That’s why I asked about LOP in the long gun picture thread when the LAW folder with fixed stock was posted.

[HeavyDuty]

Even if it’s not too much of a good thing functionally, the LAW folder also adds a bit to the LOP. That’s why I asked about LOP in the long gun picture thread when the LAW folder with fixed stock was posted.

I found a GHW Tailhook Mod 1 (https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/recoil-parts/recoil-hardware/tailhook-mod-1-prod127027.aspx) on a Battlearms Sabertube and a LAW folder makes an extremely handy carb... um, pistol sto..., um, arm brace. Overall length is about perfect, and the Tailhook is the most practical arm brace I’ve ever used.

[HeavyDuty]

Rather than start a new thread, I’ll drop this here.

One of the minor issues I’ve had with my X95 has been the rail/forend - I prefer round, the original is too short and I’m almost entirely M-LOK these days. Manticore just released a round M-LOK equipped forend that has me interested:

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https://manticorearms.com/product/x95-optimus-polymer-forend/

[Beat Trash]

That could make mounting a light much easier. I had an X95 for a short period. Mounting a light was one of the issues. Using the factory quad rail didn’t leave much room for your hand.

[HeavyDuty]

That could make mounting a light much easier. I had an X95 for a short period. Mounting a light was one of the issues. Using the factory quad rail didn’t leave much room for your hand.

Exactly my issue. I ended up with a Magpul cantilever mount off the top rail and a TLR-1, but it’s far from ideal.

Sven got right back to me, he said they are considering FDE and OD versions for the next run.

[Beat Trash]

Does this handguard free float the barrel by chance?

I’m half tempted to get another X95.

[HeavyDuty]

From the installation video, it does appear so. But I think the stock one does, too if you take the white blocks out.

[mrozowjj]

Rather than start a new thread, I’ll drop this here.

One of the minor issues I’ve had with my X95 has been the rail/forend - I prefer round, the original is too short and I’m almost entirely M-LOK these days. Manticore just released a round M-LOK equipped forend that has me interested:

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https://manticorearms.com/product/x95-optimus-polymer-forend/

The only disadvantage to this is you don't have that front QD socket anymore. I know you can add one but it's like 2 steps foward 1 step back.

[HeavyDuty]

The only disadvantage to this is you don't have that front QD socket anymore. I know you can add one but it's like 2 steps foward 1 step back.

For me personally, that’s not an issue since I run my front QD as far back on the HG as possible. But I see your point.

[HeavyDuty]

It took only a few weeks for Sven to go from “maybe?” for OD and FDE versions to them being available - the new HG must be doing well. I just ordered my OD today, I’ll report back.

https://i0.wp.com/manticorearms.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/optimus-all-three-colors-1-edit-800.jpg?fit=800%2C800&ssl=1

[mrozowjj]

It took only a few weeks for Sven to go from “maybe?” for OD and FDE versions to them being available - the new HG must be doing well. I just ordered my OD today, I’ll report back.

https://i0.wp.com/manticorearms.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/optimus-all-three-colors-1-edit-800.jpg?fit=800%2C800&ssl=1

Well shit. I kind of want one now for my fde. Let us know what you think.

[HeavyDuty]

Well shit. I kind of want one now for my fde. Let us know what you think.

Will do! It should be here in the next few days.

[HeavyDuty]

Have any of the other X95 owners played with replacement buttplates? I need to research, but I believe the Manticore can be used with the 16.5” barrel like I have to maintain 26” OAL, or I can pin my muzzle device and use the stock IWI thin buttplate. Somebody also created a rapid prototyping file for an intermediate hard buttplate that has an extension like the Manticore but is thinner like the low profile IWI.

[Clusterfrack]

Have any of the other X95 owners played with replacement buttplates? I need to research, but I believe the Manticore can be used with the 16.5” barrel like I have to maintain 26” OAL, or I can pin my muzzle device and use the stock IWI thin buttplate. Somebody also created a rapid prototyping file for an intermediate hard buttplate that has an extension like the Manticore but is thinner like the low profile IWI.

I have the Manticore buttplate on my Tavor SAR, and like it quite a bit. Combined with an extended handguard, it makes the gun balance and handle better for me (more AR-like).

[HeavyDuty]

I have the Manticore buttplate on my Tavor SAR, and like it quite a bit. Combined with an extended handguard, it makes the gun balance and handle better for me (more AR-like).

I may just go this way - if I don’t like it, it would be easy to resell. Thanks!

[mrozowjj]

Have any of the other X95 owners played with replacement buttplates? I need to research, but I believe the Manticore can be used with the 16.5” barrel like I have to maintain 26” OAL, or I can pin my muzzle device and use the stock IWI thin buttplate. Somebody also created a rapid prototyping file for an intermediate hard buttplate that has an extension like the Manticore but is thinner like the low profile IWI.

I have the Manticore one and you are correct that it still meets OAL requirements. It's a definite improvement over the factory option as it just kind of rolls onto your shoulder now. Definitely recommend it.

That said the take down pin hole can be very tight, like use a rubber mallet tight so if you want to retain that ability to take down in the field with a cartridge might have to try some fitting first.

[HeavyDuty]

Thanks - I ordered a Manticore buttpad.

I also prepped the X95 for tomorrow’s arrival of the new handguard - I pulled the top rail, the pistol grip (I replaced the cutlass grip way back when) and the original handguard. I pulled the white Teflon blocks ages ago.

Since I’m gaining all that MLOK space I’d like to look at a different light - I’ve had a TLR-1 on there using a Magpul cantilever mount for the last several years. Suggestions gladly entertained.

[Clusterfrack]

Decided to use the Tavor as my camp carbine this weekend.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210617/a1e33a834925b0b7d00be2e12cedbfc5.jpg

[JCN]

I have an SAR and an X95.

When prices get reasonable again, you guys should consider checking out the RDB series. I know they’re KelTec but honestly they have excellent triggers and are excellent suppressor hosts due to the downward eject.

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Stock their triggers are better than my X95 with Geissele trigger

[mrozowjj]

I have an SAR and an X95.

When prices get reasonable again, you guys should consider checking out the RDB series. I know they’re KelTec but honestly they have excellent triggers and are excellent suppressor hosts due to the downward eject.

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Stock their triggers are better than my X95 with Geissele trigger

But... but... but... it's a kel tec. How is everything else aside from the trigger?

[JCN]

But... but... but... it's a kel tec. How is everything else aside from the trigger?

I quite like almost everything about them better than the Tavors for my use.

If I were in a military outpost needing something extremely heavy duty use, sure I might pick the Tavors as a military rifle.

But for home defense, recreational shooting and what I use it for… I actually appreciate the significantly lighter weight and ease of carry.

The RDB-S only weighs 5 pounds! That’s like the weight of a USPSA Carry Optics gun! :D

[mrozowjj]

I quite like almost everything about them better than the Tavors for my use.

If I were in a military outpost needing something extremely heavy duty use, sure I might pick the Tavors as a military rifle.

But for home defense, recreational shooting and what I use it for… I actually appreciate the significantly lighter weight and ease of carry.

The RDB-S only weighs 5 pounds! That’s like the weight of a USPSA Carry Optics gun! :D

You mean the trigger pull is 5lbs or the whole gun is 5lbs? Because none of the models listed on Kel Tec's website have a weight of 5lbs. They seem to all be right around 7lbs except for the Survival version which is just a few oz under 6lbs. Are the weights on their website wrong?

[JCN]

You mean the trigger pull is 5lbs or the whole gun is 5lbs? Because none of the models listed on Kel Tec's website have a weight of 5lbs. They seem to all be right around 7lbs except for the Survival version which is just a few oz under 6lbs. Are the weights on their website wrong?

I misremembered and pulled a figure off the web. Sorry!

I confirmed with my actual rifles. Weight and trigger weight. Triggers are stock.

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72966
72967

[HeavyDuty]

I misremembered and pulled a figure off the web. Sorry!

I confirmed with my actual rifles. Weight and trigger weight. Triggers are stock.

72964


Needs Charton Heston riding a horse on the beach being chased by monkeys.

[Clusterfrack]

Needs Charton Heston riding a horse on the beach being chased by monkeys.

Hahahah!!! Best thing I’ve read on the Internet today.

[JCN]

72975

[mrozowjj]

I misremembered and pulled a figure off the web. Sorry!

I confirmed with my actual rifles. Weight and trigger weight. Triggers are stock.



Well I went down a rabit hole last night. For the pre-pandemic price of $800 seems actually kind of neat. That said Keltec had issues making guns before the pandemic so I can't even begin to imagine what it's like now. Haha.

That said how comfortable is that "survival" version because it looks very uncomfortable.

And now I can't unsee this:
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Planet_of_the_Apes_(1968)#Apes_Rifle_.28modified_M 1_Carbine.29

[JCN]

Well I went down a rabit hole last night. For the pre-pandemic price of $800 seems actually kind of neat. That said Keltec had issues making guns before the pandemic so I can't even begin to imagine what it's like now. Haha.

That said how comfortable is that "survival" version because it looks very uncomfortable.

And now I can't unsee this:
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Planet_of_the_Apes_(1968)#Apes_Rifle_.28modified_M 1_Carbine.29

Prepandemic they were fire sale-ing them and I didn’t think anything could replace my Tavors….

But they’re super easy to shoot and really kind of a joy.

They’re pretty comfortable to shoot. Better than a pistol braced pistol non-rifle, lol.

Mainly I like them for short length as a suppressor host.


https://youtu.be/lpo3sHWMG8g

[mrozowjj]

Prepandemic they were fire sale-ing them and I didn’t think anything could replace my Tavors….




What was the fire-sale price?

[HeavyDuty]

New Manticore handguard is on. Nicely made!

[Clusterfrack]

Decided to use the Tavor as my camp carbine this weekend.


I’d forgotten how much I like my Tavor. It’s a little on the heavy side, but shoots great. It was a laser out to 300-600 yds.

[mrozowjj]

New Manticore handguard is on. Nicely made!

Looking forward to hearing your opinion and posting some pics.

[HeavyDuty]

Looking forward to hearing your opinion and posting some pics.

Definitely. I need to find someplace to take pics, though. I did a potato quality one yesterday for a friend.

[mrozowjj]

Definitely. I need to find someplace to take pics, though. I did a potato quality one yesterday for a friend.

I'm curious what you think about it.

[Greg Bell]

I know I am a nut, but I love the emergency sights on the Tavor. I wish more manufacturers would engineer these into their rail systems. A lot of folks have abandoned BUIS altogether, but I think true emergency sights are the best solution.That being said, I was annoyed when the tavor-7 abandoned the built-in reserve sights. I have an X95 on layaway and am looking forward to getting it up and running.

[HeavyDuty]

I'm curious what you think about it.

I still haven’t had a chance to get it to the range. I’m not a member of an outdoor range yet, and shooting 5.56 indoors at 50’ doesn’t sound like much fun. Soon.


I know I am a nut, but I love the emergency sights on the Tavor. I wish more manufacturers would engineer these into their rail systems. A lot of folks have abandoned BUIS altogether, but I think true emergency sights are the best solution.That being said, I was annoyed when the tavor-7 abandoned the built-in reserve sights. I have an X95 on layaway and am looking forward to getting it up and running.

The OEM folding sights do everything I need on mine. They are well designed.

[JCN]

breakingtime91

Bumping up this thread

[JCN]

Also the Geissele trigger and Super Sabra make the trigger very nice on an X95. Still a little bit of mush, but much cleaner and lighter than factory.

[JCN]

I would say the height over bore is the main issue for comfort and familiarity for me.

The handing differences are that there’s not much nose weight so that makes transitions a little vaguer.

Rear weight also makes mounting from stock on belt heftier. But I don’t notice much when it starts low ready or other shoulder to stock start.

[spyderco monkey]

The X95 18.5" barrel version is very compelling, as its 28.125" long with the ticker buttpad. But with the thin butpad it will drop to 27.125" - giving you a 18.5" barrel 5.56 thats the length of a MP5.

18.5 also looks great with the Optimus Handguard:

https://i.ibb.co/C8hcTdN/Screen-Shot-2021-08-03-at-1-28-17-AM.png

[Clusterfrack]

The X95 18.5" barrel version is very compelling, as its 28.125" long with the ticker buttpad. But with the thin butpad it will drop to 27.125" - giving you a 18.5" barrel 5.56 thats the length of a MP5.

18.5 also looks great with the Optimus Handguard:

https://i.ibb.co/C8hcTdN/Screen-Shot-2021-08-03-at-1-28-17-AM.png

My issue with the 18.5” Tavors is while accuracy is acceptable, it’s not sub-moa like a SPR “mk.12” type AR.

16” seems like the better option to me for that reason.

[JCN]

Also regarding suppressed gas to face…

With the gasket sealing plate I get way less gas to face than an AR / MCX.

[spyderco monkey]

My issue with the 18.5” Tavors is while accuracy is acceptable, it’s not sub-moa like a SPR “mk.12” type AR.

16” seems like the better option to me for that reason.

Well whats interesting is the 16" is so short it needs the +1" length increasing thick butpad.

So with the 18" you can remove the butpad, reducing 1" OAL and 1" LOP, and you end up only 1" longer then the 16" but with +2" of velocity

[Clusterfrack]

Well whats interesting is the 16" is so short it needs the +1" length increasing thick butpad.

So with the 18" you can remove the butpad, reducing 1" OAL and 1" LOP, and you end up only 1" longer then the 16" but with +2" of velocity

Ah, I was unaware of that. That’s not the case for the original Tavor SAR.

18” X95 does make sense to me now.

[DMCutter]

I have to respectfully disagree with JCN about the trigger. I have the Super Sabra trigger pack and Lightning Bow and it's the lightest, most crisp trigger I have in a rifle. I have a 300 blackout conversion I'm not using because I figured the 16" barrel wasn't getting me anything over my 9" MCX but now I'm thinking I may convert it back and sell the MCX instead of dealing with the impending SBR issue. If I can't keep it loaded in the car, it's got no particular advantage over the Tavor.
Oh yeah, I saw a video from IWI where they used a section of rail cover at the back end to help redirect some of the gad blowback. I need to try that.

[JCN]

I have to respectfully disagree with JCN about the trigger. I have the Super Sabra trigger pack and Lightning Bow and it's the lightest, most crisp trigger I have in a rifle.

I don’t think you’re disagreeing with me… I don’t doubt it’s the best trigger you have in any rifle…

But what are you comparing it to?

The Geissele sd3g single stage competition AR trigger I have in my JP5 is leagues above the X95 Sabra and lightning bow…

It’s also not as great as the Hiperfire eclipses.

Here is a video:


https://youtu.be/uVHmu2hHg04

They all break around 2 pounds but the AR triggers lack a little bit of the mush and load up (it’s subtle) that the X95 has. The reset is also shorter and cleaner on the ARs.

[DMCutter]

I stand corrected. I forgot about the Hiperfire. I was comparing it to the Sig match triggers, an SDE in my 516, and the 2 stage LMT in my legacy AR, which is surprisingly light. I was taking issue with mush, but your tactile perception is probably more refined than mine because I'm old and have an f'ed up right hand due to ulnar nerve impingement.

[breakingtime91]

Where is the best place to buy the 16 inch or a 18.5?

[Kyle Reese]

Where is the best place to buy the 16 inch or a 18.5?

Proven Outfitters


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JCN]

I stand corrected. I forgot about the Hiperfire. I was comparing it to the Sig match triggers, an SDE in my 516, and the 2 stage LMT in my legacy AR, which is surprisingly light. I was taking issue with mush, but your tactile perception is probably more refined than mine because I'm old and have an f'ed up right hand due to ulnar nerve impingement.

I think I notice the difference in reset most.

The Hiperfire and single stage AR triggers I can do 0.11-12 second splits all day long, the longer and vaguer reset of the X95 makes that difficult.

It’s a good trigger, don’t get me wrong. It’s like a Timney Glock trigger.

It’s just not a match 1911 trigger.

In a 9mm conversion, it’s perfectly game able.


https://youtu.be/zMt9wKKjokY

[breakingtime91]

One thing I am really leaning toward with the x95 is I have a box of AR mags, safety and mag release are almost identical to the ARs.

One hold up is I really like acogs. I have heard the height over bore really messes with the acogs bdc with thr x95

[Clusterfrack]

One thing I am really leaning toward with the x95 is I have a box of AR mags, safety and mag release are almost identical to the ARs.


I actually prefer the original Tavor mag release. It's not quite as fast or ergonomic, but it is simple and very reliable.

[JCN]

One thing I am really leaning toward with the x95 is I have a box of AR mags, safety and mag release are almost identical to the ARs.

One hold up is I really like acogs. I have heard the height over bore really messes with the acogs bdc with thr x95


I actually prefer the original Tavor mag release. It's not quite as fast or ergonomic, but it is simple and very reliable.

We were talking about this technique a while back and it works with RDBs too.


https://youtu.be/JHm7sv5Bpik

[spyderco monkey]

One thing I am really leaning toward with the x95 is I have a box of AR mags, safety and mag release are almost identical to the ARs.

One hold up is I really like acogs. I have heard the height over bore really messes with the acogs bdc with thr x95

I don't know how much height over bore vis a vis the X95 will effect the ACOG BDC. It would be good to mess with a ballistics calculator for various sight heights to see how it effects point of impact at distances.

https://bergerbullets.com/ballistics-calculator/

I will say the AUG is an optimal ACOG host (ACAUG) because it has the same height over bore as the AR15, and then the Corvus rail has an integral ACOG groove machined into the rail, allowing you to ditch the 4oz mount, and also slightly lower the ACOG height to make a more comfortable piggy back setup with the RMR:

https://soldiersystems.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Corvus-Defensio-M1-3.jpg

[Clusterfrack]

I don't know how much height over bore vis a vis the X95 will effect the ACOG BDC. It would be good to mess with a ballistics calculator for various sight heights to see how it effects point of impact at distances.


I get about -0.5 to -1moa difference out to 600yds for an extra inch of height over bore.

As with high optic mounts, the bigger issue is offset at close range.

[breakingtime91]

I get about -0.5 to -1moa difference out to 600yds for an extra inch of height over bore.

As with high optic mounts, the bigger issue is offset at close range.


Interesting, so the BDC would get me in the ball park. Interesting. When I was only shooting my last x95, I got used to the holds and they became natural. I'm not niave to think, at this point, that I will be able to go back seamlessly between both platform. But man was shooting that bull pup fun

[Sensei]

There is a growing consensus that the X95/Tavor family doesn’t play well in the sandbox with suppressors. Its operating system is waaay over-gassed and adding a suppressor dramatically shortens the lifespan to 5000 rounds or so. Garand Thumb discusses this in his review of the X95. I have no idea if this is true and only put about 100 rounds thru mine with the suppressor.

[Clusterfrack]

There is a growing consensus that the X95/Tavor family doesn’t play well in the sandbox with suppressors. Its operating system is waaay over-gassed and adding a suppressor dramatically shortens the lifespan to 5000 rounds or so. Garand Thumb discusses this in his review of the X95. I have no idea if this is true and only put about 100 rounds thru mine with the suppressor.

Very interesting. I've sealed the left ejection port on my Tavor SAR, so I don't have gas in the face. But, from that review it seems like we don't want to run a high round count suppressed through these guns--at least until someone comes out with an adjustable or limited gas system.

[JCN]

There is a growing consensus that the X95/Tavor family doesn’t play well in the sandbox with suppressors. Its operating system is waaay over-gassed and adding a suppressor dramatically shortens the lifespan to 5000 rounds or so. Garand Thumb discusses this in his review of the X95. I have no idea if this is true and only put about 100 rounds thru mine with the suppressor.


Very interesting. I've sealed the left ejection port on my Tavor SAR, so I don't have gas in the face. But, from that review it seems like we don't want to run a high round count suppressed through these guns--at least until someone comes out with an adjustable or limited gas system.

Very interesting. Thanks for bringing this to attention.

I looked at the video and he says he talked to the engineers that didn’t design it for suppression.

I might have to think about putting my 300 blk barrel back on it.

That one at least has a gas adjustment.

[JCN]

Sensei
Clusterfrack

Wonder if something like this would reduce the damage. Obviously less gas would be ideal, but this could help.

https://shootingsight.com/?product=hers

Might be interesting to see if a gunsmith could weld the gas port smaller....

[JCN]

Also will point out that the RDB has an adjustable block.

[Clusterfrack]

Also will point out that the RDB has an adjustable block.

And none of my ARs needs one...

Tavor will get shelved while I wait for a decent aftermarket solution. Will I have any OEM parts left in that gun? Honestly, I'm tempted to sell it.

[JCN]

And none of my ARs needs one...

Tavor will get shelved while I wait for a decent aftermarket solution. Will I have any OEM parts left in that gun? Honestly, I'm tempted to sell it.

I like adjustable blocks!

I dunno if it’s a big deal.

Maybe increased springs and a 7.62 baffles can would work. I don’t put a lot of suppressed rifle rounds downrange… stuff gets super hot.

[breakingtime91]

And none of my ARs needs one...

Tavor will get shelved while I wait for a decent aftermarket solution. Will I have any OEM parts left in that gun? Honestly, I'm tempted to sell it.

Wonder if the aug needs one? I shelved the idea for now as I am focusing on relearning pistols since my finger surgery.

[WobblyPossum]

Wonder if the aug needs one? I shelved the idea for now as I am focusing on relearning pistols since my finger surgery.

The AUG has an adjustable gas plug. I think it only has two settings: normal or adverse. They also make one for suppressed use.

[DMCutter]

I'm fat on 5.56s. Ima gonna put my 300blk barrel back in.

[Sensei]

Very interesting. I've sealed the left ejection port on my Tavor SAR, so I don't have gas in the face. But, from that review it seems like we don't want to run a high round count suppressed through these guns--at least until someone comes out with an adjustable or limited gas system.

So, one potential solution is to get the 300blk conversion kit. It has an adjustable gas system between low gas for supers and high gas for subs. The big question is will the low gas setting tamp down the gas enough to prevent damage to the gun when shooting supersonic ammo suppressed. I dunno.

I plan to reach out to IWI USA this week to get their take. Like you, I do at least 50% of my carbine shooting suppressed and this gun just ain’t going to cut it if it’s going to go tits-up after a few thousand rounds suppressed.

[Clusterfrack]

So, one potential solution is to get the 300blk conversion kit. It has an adjustable gas system between low gas for supers and high gas for subs. The big question is will the low gas setting tamp down the gas enough to prevent damage to the gun when shooting supersonic ammo suppressed. I dunno.

I plan to reach out to IWI USA this week to get their take. Like you, I do at least 50% of my carbine shooting suppressed and this gun just ain’t going to cut it if it’s going to go tits-up after a few thousand rounds suppressed.

300BLK in a heavy 16" Bullpup doesn't interest me. My only use for 300BLK is in pistol length ARs.

Hopefully Manticore or someone will figure out a mod for this problem. My Tavor doesn't have a huge round count. I've shot around 500 suppressed and didn't notice any issues. Possibly my SF Mini doesn't produce as high pressures as bigger cans?

I wonder what parts fail? Anyone know?

[Default.mp3]

Any particular reason y'all don't consider a flow through can as the solution? Few more options on the market now compared to a past years (HuxWrx, CGS, KAC, B&T, SIG). B&T even has options that work with SureFire muzzle devices coming at a fairly competitive price point.

[Clusterfrack]

Any particular reason y'all don't consider a flow through can as the solution? Few more options on the market now compared to a past years (HuxWrx, CGS, KAC, B&T, SIG). B&T even has options that work with SureFire muzzle devices coming at a fairly competitive price point.

Good question. Those sound like a good option for someone wanting to solve the problem.

I'm not going to buy a new suppressor for my Tavor. I like it, but not that much.

[DMCutter]

I converted mine back to 300blk and took it to the range yesterday to zero the R4t. It ran fine on the low gas setting with Ammo Inc 110 grn Vmax and 150 grn FMJ, as well as Federal Fusion 150 soft point. I shot some Minuteman 200 subsonic with the Hybrid 46 and had no gas to the face even though I never got around to installing the Manticore gasket kit. I will probably add a Manticore top rail or cantilevered forend just to raise the optic but I could live with it as is.

[Clusterfrack]

My Tavor is now shelved. I'm keeping it in the hopes that someone markets an adjustable (or reduced) gas block for it. And because it's a cool gun.

[JCN]

My Tavor is now shelved. I'm keeping it in the hopes that someone markets an adjustable (or reduced) gas block for it. And because it's a cool gun.

It is out of stock but…

https://iwi.us/product/tavor-gas-cylinder/

For $12 it seems reasonable to buy one and modify it.

A gunsmith should be able to weld and reduce the gas port, no?

[Clusterfrack]

A gunsmith should be able to weld and reduce the gas port, no?

Good point, and a cheap part.

Things that need a gunsmith just aren't my thing.

[JCN]

Good point, and a cheap part.

Things that need a gunsmith just aren't my thing.

Well, they don’t really need a gunsmith if you have a welding torch and a Dremel….

[GearFondler]

Well, they don’t really need a gunsmith if you have a welding torch and a Dremel….and a 6-pack of PBR.

[DMCutter]

I used my X95 tonight to cap a beaver on the other side of my pond. I've been tolerant of them in the pond but last week they started taking down trees right next to the house to build a new lodge. I caught it coming out of the water onto the new lodge a little after dusk. I lit it up with my Olight Warrior M2R (which I guess has been recalled) and a 200 grn subsonic. My wife said she thought she heard something but didn't actually recognize it as a shot so the Hybrid 46 did what it's supposed to do. I guess I'll get the kayak out tomorrow and fish out the carcass unless the vultures get it first.