Raven Concealment?

[MadMax17]

Hey all,

Just wondering what everyone thought about the Raven Concealment phantom modular holster? Looking for a good IWB holster for 3:30 carry. Currently have a Blade-tech phantom, it's works, but looking for something better.

Thanks,
Max

[JConn]

Great holsters. I use one iwb daily.

[Jay Cunningham]

They are just dandy.

[LOKNLOD]

I think the Ravens (and presumably the very similar holsters from other makers, but I don't have personal experience with them) are the best OWB open-top kydex holsters going. Comfy, stable, still concealable when weather permits an appropriate garment. But I absolutely hate them IWB. I've tried it, and never even made it out of the house because I found it so uncomfortable. I know others love them IWB, so I assume it's very much a personal fit issue once you start putting them in your pants.

Actually I think that's good advice across the board. It becomes a very personal issue when you start putting items inside your pants. :p

[EmanP]

Love 'um. Got one for almost everything.

[JDM]

If I'm carrying OWB, it's in a Raven Phantom.

They have excellent customer service as well. I traded into the Phantom I have now, making me the second owner. When the holster cracked near the trigger guard, they replaced it no questions asked. Took about 10 days IIRC.

[Tamara]

There's an M&P9 FS in a Raven IWB on my hip at the 3:30~4:00 position as I type this. It's been there since 0600 this morning. I am not uncomfortable. I hope this helps.

[TheLaw]

I have ordered several Ravens and have no complaints with their PRODUCTS.

I now use Personal Security Systems Holsters. It is my opinion that the quality is on par, with faster shipping and cheaper prices. www.psholsters.com

[VolGrad]

I have ordered several Ravens and have no complaints with their PRODUCTS.

I now use Personal Security Systems Holsters. It is my opinion that the quality is on par, with faster shipping and cheaper prices. www.psholsters.com

Same for me.

[JRL]

I recently ordered a Crown holster (http://www.crownholsters.com) that looks identical to these and took about a week to get (longer now), but I can't compare the quality since I haven't owned the others. I like it though and it does the job.

[EmanP]

I have this thing where I can't support a company that basically steals another companies design for themselves.

[JB326]

I'll humbly throw my IWB holster out there for your review, the Trotac Trojan Horse. I wear one 10-12 hours a day at work (G23 with Surefire X300) and I sometimes forget it is there. I also wear at 3:30-4:00. It is an original design of mine, and obviously the "wings" serve to distribute weight and spread the load, making for a more comfortable rig. This is an OLD pic, but the main difference in this one and my new stuff is that I cut the front panel differently.

http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/hstrial-TrojanTactical/-strse-5/Trojan-Horse-IWB/Detail.bok
http://i802.photobucket.com/albums/yy310/TROTAC/Trojan%20Horse%20IWB/004.jpg

I wore Raven's for a long time before I started making my own, and they have excellent customer service as has been mentioned. A LOT of people use aspects of their designs (and a lot of people straight up copy their stuff, as you said). I certainly have some Raven influence in some of my gear, but there are plenty of things I've changed that make my gear different, and it is constantly evolving even now.

[willowofwisp]

I have this thing where I can't support a company that basically steals another companies design for themselves.

Me too, that's why I refuse to buy a Jones Tactical belt.

[TGS]

I recently ordered a Crown holster (http://www.crownholsters.com) that looks identical to these and took about a week to get (longer now), but I can't compare the quality since I haven't owned the others. I like it though and it does the job.

I also had a light-bearing Crown for my P2000/TLR-3.

I thought its quality was fine, and it did what it was suppose to do. I ended up just not liking the rig....

1) Belt loops are too tight for a leather belt unless you like skinning the leather. I think these were made with riggers belts in mind.
2) I simply prefer AIWB.
3) Pretty awkward IWB. It felt like I had shoved a cafeteria tray down my pants.

I don't understand why anyone would buy an RCS when you've got other makers out there making the same product for significantly lower wait times and prices while still giving lifetime, no question asked warranties. I could care less if they're copycats because the design isn't patented, ergo Raven doesn't give a crap.

I'm amazed that no one has copied the Shaggy.....incorporated some design features, yeah, but no copycats.

[PPGMD]

I don't understand why anyone would buy an RCS when you've got other makers out there making the same product for significantly lower wait times and prices while still giving lifetime, no question asked warranties. I could care less if they're copycats because the design isn't patented, ergo Raven doesn't give a crap.

Maybe because RCS doesn't have those issues. They may copy the basic design but they miss some of the little perfections that RCS that built into their holster over the years.


I'm amazed that no one has copied the Shaggy.....incorporated some design features, yeah, but no copycats.

Put it in a video with Chris Costa and watch the copycats pile up.

[TAZ]

LOVE my Phantoms. I have 3 for my G21. One set up OWB, a second set up OWB and a third as backup. I carry the 21 with an X300 and the Raven is super comfy. Have had my gun on IWB for over 12 hours now. Took a walk at the park, rode the childrens train around with my son... still don't feel it.

Ravens customer service is also second to none IMO. I had one of my overhooks break after a year of use and abuse. When I sent them an email asking where on their website I could find the hooks, Tom replied back telling me they no longer made them cause they didn't feel like it was the best solution and that they switched to loops. He then sent me a free set of loops, no questions asked.

[G60]

I don't understand why anyone would buy an RCS when you've got other makers out there making the same product for significantly lower wait times and prices while still giving lifetime, no question asked warranties.


Are they all the same quality? And do they all give 'lifetime, no questions asked warranties'? What if one of those other makers out there doesn't offer a warranty, and writes a blog post invoking the FTC to explain away why they don't offer a warranty, and why anybody who does offer a lifetime warranty 'doesn't really mean it.'

And then RCS comes in and offers: "If the manufacturer is unable or unwilling to honor his warranty, I will cover it under mine...I will replace every piece of your carry rig as if you were one of our customers and had a breakage on a holster we made."

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=95363
This type of customer service exemplifies why companies like RCS & PSS should be rewarded, and alternatives be approached with caution.

And what about all these hobby kydex makers springing up out of the woodwork who get in over the heads and may not even be around to honor the warranties on their product tomorrow?

Not to say there aren't quality alternatives to RCS, but let the buyer beware. I've seen too many instances of "X new holster maker offers such and such" and then 6 months later you've got commitments being unfulfilled on time, folks wondering where their gear is, previously active web and phone presences being impossible to get ahold of and other problems.

[TGS]

Maybe because RCS doesn't have those issues. They may copy the basic design but they miss some of the little perfections that RCS that built into their holster over the years.

Put it in a video with Chris Costa and watch the copycats pile up.

True that on Chris Costa. There's a lot of people with a man-crush on him. Curious, what sort of small perfections does RCS have in their Phantom over other guys' Phantom copies?


Are they all the same quality? And do they all give 'lifetime, no questions asked warranties'? What if one of those other makers out there doesn't offer a warranty, and writes a blog post invoking the FTC to explain away why they don't offer a warranty, and why anybody who does offer a lifetime warranty 'doesn't really mean it.'


Same quality? I don't know, but mine worked fine. As long as it works, I could really care less about aesthetic quality....it's kydex, not a Del Fatti. I have no idea what "FTC" stands for. I thought I addressed the warranty part here:


making the same product for significantly lower wait times and prices while still giving lifetime, no question asked warranties.

Here's Crown's warranty (http://www.crownholsters.com/store/info.php?articles&articles_id=2&sid=1bsp898ii491g22ap5gu8bvnu2).

I don't see how RCS warrantying other makers therefore means that the other makers should be approached with caution....that's pretty ridiculous. Good for RCS, I never doubted their exemplary CS. I don't see how them having awesome business ethics somehow means other makers who still stand by their word should be approached with caution. I can get a holster for almost half the price elsewhere.....and when I did, I ordered it on Saturday and got it Friday....and the guy will still fix it if it's defective.

As to a small business going under, that's a good point and with RCS's fanboy base then they've likely got a better chance of surviving. If the lifetime warranty is important to you, then I guess it's worth the extra money for you. Personally, I just want to know that the maker will fix it if it's defective. If I break something from use and not due to defects, even if they warranty it, I'll probably be getting a different holster that I don't break in my standard usage...so it's a moot point to me personally.

[PPGMD]

True that on Chris Costa. There's a lot of people with a man-crush on him. Curious, what sort of small perfections does RCS have in their Phantom over other guys' Phantom copies?

Costa it's a double edged sword, it's great that RCS is doing well, but I remember when I thought waiting a month was a long time for my RCS holsters.

Anyways a good example, unlike your Crown holster I can feed a typical leather gun belt through the belt loops just fine (I use leather if I have to tuck my holster behind a shirt). And IMO they are the most comfortable of their type. I've worn it for many hours on end IWB, including classes, and a 18 hour drive.

Honestly if you look at holsters from them over the years you can see the changes, from the obvious belt loop materials to subtle changes in how the holster is molded.

[Jay Cunningham]

Hey all,

Just wondering what everyone thought about the Raven Concealment phantom modular holster? Looking for a good IWB holster for 3:30 carry. Currently have a Blade-tech phantom, it's works, but looking for something better.

Thanks,
Max

So the above is the original post.

Curious how this thread has become a my favorite kydex holster maker is awesome/no your holster maker sucks and stole the design from my favorite holster maker kind of thing.

[TGS]

Anyways a good example, unlike your Crown holster I can feed a typical leather gun belt through the belt loops just fine (I use leather if I have to tuck my holster behind a shirt). And IMO they are the most comfortable of their type. I've worn it for many hours on end IWB, including classes, and a 18 hour drive.


That's neat about the belt loops. OWB, right? That's what I was referring to, but I wasn't specific. IWB loops were fine. If so, then that's a definite advantage that I've never read. It's nice to finally see something substantial instead of the usual, "bUY rAVen tehy're the BEST!!!!1 noone compars."

As to comfort, I really just think it's a personal preference and not something that would change between makers of the same design. I haven't enjoyed any of my 3-4 O'Clock rigs as much as I used too since I started AIWB...and I know other people have had the same cafeteria-tray gripes about varying brands/designs of kydex IWB at 3-4 O'Clock...it just doesn't conform to your body as well as leather, and unlike AIWB when you carry at 3-4 O'Clock your rig is on a convex surface, so one bend-angle in the wings of a kydex holster isn't going to work for everyone.

Caleb is a small guy, so I imagine the kydex holster that conforms to my size 38 convex fat ass isn't going to fit as well for him. Leather, however, will just pull in around his waist.

[TGS]

So the above is the original post.

Curious how this thread has become a my favorite kydex holster maker is awesome/no your holster maker sucks and stole the design from my favorite holster maker kind of thing.

Didn't know it became that.

Damn you, free thinkers! You may not discuss the differences in copycats of the same holster!

[PPGMD]

That's neat about the belt loops. OWB, right? That's what I was referring to, but I wasn't specific. IWB loops were fine. If so, then that's a definite advantage that I've never read. It's nice to finally see something substantial instead of the usual, "bUY rAVen tehy're the BEST!!!!1 noone compars."

I was speaking OWB loops, as I guessed that was what you are talking about. And it fits fine both with their old kydex loops, and their newer polymer loops. Though I mostly use the IWB soft loops these days.


As to comfort, I really just think it's a personal preference and not something that would change between makers of the same design. I haven't enjoyed any of my 3-4 O'Clock rigs as much as I used too since I started AIWB...and I know other people have had the same cafeteria-tray gripes about varying brands/designs of kydex IWB at 3-4 O'Clock...it just doesn't conform to your body as well as leather, and unlike AIWB when you carry at 3-4 O'Clock your rig is on a convex surface, so one bend-angle in the wings of a kydex holster isn't going to work for everyone.

Comfort is extremely personal, for me RCS has been the most comfortable of the light capable IWB holsters. For example for me AIWB is extremely uncomfortable. And leather holsters are out since I prefer to CCW with a weapon light.

Let me preface this, most of my experience with custom orders was before they got swamped. One great thing about RCS is that they are extremely accommodating of changes. If the angle of the wings isn't right email them, and they can make it more to your liking. I needed a light pouch that allowed me to get a better grip on the light, told them what I wanted, it came in, wasn't quite perfect, sent it back and they remade based on my input.

At the same time they won't blow smoke up your ass, they will sanity check your description, and in some cases turn down jobs that they don't think will work. I saw it happen quite publicly on M4C.

[VolGrad]

Curious how this thread has become a my favorite kydex holster maker is awesome/no your holster maker sucks and stole the design from my favorite holster maker kind of thing.
You know any time someone invokes the name Raven it comes to this. It's inevitable. ;)

[orionz06]

Hey all,

Just wondering what everyone thought about the Raven Concealment phantom modular holster? Looking for a good IWB holster for 3:30 carry. Currently have a Blade-tech phantom, it's works, but looking for something better.

Thanks,
Max

In what way do you find the Blade-Tech lacking and what would be better?

[MadMax17]

In what way do you find the Blade-Tech lacking and what would be better?

I don't like how the loops can change angles. I've tightened the screws as far as they go, but they're still moveable. So the holster starts at a 10ish degree cant, then ends up being 0 degree straight up and down after moving around for a whole day.

I have somewhat narrow hips (aroud a 34 to 36 waist), so the loops being right in front of the gun kind of cause a little bit of a bulge that can sometimes get uncomfortable. I was thinking the offset wings that raven and others have might help with this.

But the angle thing is the primary concern, because it's pretty much a different draw angle everytime.

[orionz06]

Sounds like you are on the right track then.

[saints75]

I don't like how the loops can change angles. I've tightened the screws as far as they go, but they're still moveable. So the holster starts at a 10ish degree cant, then ends up being 0 degree straight up and down after moving around for a whole day.

I have somewhat narrow hips (aroud a 34 to 36 waist), so the loops being right in front of the gun kind of cause a little bit of a bulge that can sometimes get uncomfortable. I was thinking the offset wings that raven and others have might help with this.

But the angle thing is the primary concern, because it's pretty much a different draw angle everytime.

Have you tried the JHook? I am thinking about getting a Blade Tech IMB Holster.

[Cosmo M3]

I have a PS Holster and recently ordered a new holster from Raven for my P30 w/ X300.

In terms of customer service, they're about equal. Their build quality, however, is not the same. The Raven holster look a lot cleaner, better molded, and "shrink wrapped" look are some of the reasons why i ditched the PSS Holster.

[saints75]

Does anyone own the Vangaurd Hoster from RCS? Looks interesting. I can tie it around my belt and carry it homedboy style lol I like I said it looks interesting. Just wonder how well it works.

[EJO]

I've got a VanGuard on order right now. I used to carry a 1911 "mexican style" when deep concealment was needed but stopped when I switched to a Glock. The idea seems sound but I'll just have to wait and see...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[NickDrak]

For those of you who primarily carry their RCS Phantom OWB, I highly recommend checking out their newer "Pancake" style belt loops. They were a noticeable improvement in comfort for me.

[VolGrad]

For those of you who primarily carry their RCS Phantom OWB, I highly recommend checking out their newer "Pancake" style belt loops. They were a noticeable improvement in comfort for me.

While I no longer use Raven holsters I do like the pancake style belt attachments for concealed carry. They do really hold the holster/gun tight to the body. I actually just use one pancake attachment on the rear but use a regular one on the front. I tried pancake on front & rear but the front actually pushed away from my body some and created a small gap between the holster and my body. It prob would have broken in but I went back to a regular loop on the front and haven't looked back.