Precision Rifles

[SLG]

Who's running a shorter barreled precision rifle? Work or play, let's see your sub 22" bolt guns. I'm contemplating a new rifle build, and would love to see some ideas. Aside from a picture, tell us whatever you'd like to about your rifle, especially if it isn't obvious.

[JV_]

My favorite rifle is my version of an LTR:

Trued 700 - .308
20" Schneider 5P Barrel (.298" bore)
M40A1 Stock

I run 155g Lapua Scenars, usually at 2900 fps, and it performs quite well.

If I had to do it over again, I'd go with a 22" 6XC, Remington varmint contour (or medium palma), and a Manners stock to save weight. I often run mine with a suppressor, so I can't go too thin at the muzzle or there's not enough shoulder.

I like that it's handy and runs pretty well; I've taken it out to 1350 Yards with great accuracy.

[LittleLebowski]

This is my Remington 700 AAC-SD in .308 with a 20" barrel. I bought a used Bell and Carlson M40 stock, added an EGW 20 MOA rail, a Pride Fowler 3-9x, and a Bolt Lift ("http://www.kineticresearchgroup.com/products/boltlift.php) (inexpensive, really good piece of kit!). I did a good deal of reading on the theory that shorter barrels are stiffer and shoot just as well if not better than the longer ones. I had a 24" FN SPR before this and vastly prefer the Remington. Just need a sling and a bipod.....

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/photo10.jpg

[DocGKR]

I firmly believe the era of .308 bolt guns is over for LE use--save the bolt guns for long range engagements using .300 Win Mag or even better .338 Lap Mag. The new breed of 16" semi-auto .308's (KAC SR25 EMC, LaRue OBR or PredatAR, FN Mk17/SCAR-H)--are more versatile and effective than any .308 bolt gun for common LE duty use.

[SLG]

JV,

Which Manners stock? I have the MCS-T, and a McMillian HTG, and I think the McMillian is a bit lighter, and can be made lighter still.

LL,

I think that's the best factory base these days. How does it shoot? I have the plain old SPS tac, and wish yours was on the market when I bought the tac.

Doc,

I hear you, but I love bolt guns. This is not for work, just for me. I'm planning on shooting a PredatAR in a few weeks, and may get one then, but it will never have the grace of a good bolt gun:-) I've even gotten away from DBM in my bolt guns.

[JV_]

Which Manners stock?Dunno, I'd like to play with the MCS-T, all of my other stocks are T4s.


I've even gotten away from DBM in my bolt guns. CRF actions?

[Tamara]

It was built as a joke (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2005/10/boomsticks-silk-purses-from-sows-ears.html), sort of. We had a junked Turk Mauser, a .30-cal Lilja AR barrel, and a box of .300 Whisper ammo lying around, and a little 20-watt bulb went on over my head.

Unfortunately, I wasn't thinking and had the muzzle threaded 1/2x28, which kinda limited my choices in commercially-available .30-cal cans at the time to... well, nothing. So it's been sitting in the back of the safe (for years) while I decide what to do with it.

[JV_]

I'd probably give the MCS-SL a whirl, it's 28 oz...

[SLG]

It was built as a joke (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2005/10/boomsticks-silk-purses-from-sows-ears.html), sort of. We had a junked Turk Mauser, a .30-cal Lilja AR barrel, and a box of .300 Whisper ammo lying around, and a little 20-watt bulb went on over my head.

Unfortunately, I wasn't thinking and had the muzzle threaded 1/2x28, which kinda limited my choices in commercially-available .30-cal cans at the time to... well, nothing. So it's been sitting in the back of the safe (for years) while I decide what to do with it.

Nice looking gun. How does it shoot?

[SLG]

JV,

Mostly CRF, though I have a 700 and a Surgeon in there for good measure. The Surgeon is not actually mine, but the owner won't seem to take it back, so I'm stuck feeding and walking it.

The ultralight Manners do look interesting, and I've talked to Tom about them from time to time. It sounds like he'll have a new version out at SHOT.

[Tamara]

Nice looking gun. How does it shoot?

From the very little I've shot it, okay. (Not having much experience with .300 Whisper, I was worried about it stabilizing those long 220s.) I'd only put two full boxes of ammo through it, enough to sight it in @100 yards and confirm that it would hold something like a group with factory Cor-Bon, before quitting the job at the SOT and then moving to Indianapolis, where the nearest place I can shoot centerfire rifles is a good piece of a drive away. All that pretty much shelved the whole project. :(

I've got dies, and running into the guys from Gemtech at the last Indy 1500 and talking about thread adaptors has kinda got me interested in starting it up again. (Listening to Frank James talking about feral hog control has been a big part of it, too.)

I'll say this, between that truck axle of a barrel and the mild chambering, it is very pleasant to shoot.

[agent-smith]

I've even gotten away from DBM in my bolt guns.

BLASPHEMY!!!

That would rule-out AI.

*shudders at the thought*

[Zhurdan]

FN SPR 16"
Springfield Mk4 1x14
Harris Bipod
168g (can't remember the powder charge atm as I've worked up several different ones)

This rifle has been a very good shooter. Been toying with 600+ yards lately on a 12" steel plate.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r127/Zhurdan/Gun%20stuff/rifles2-2-3.jpg

Sorry for the crappy picture, surprisingly, the only photo I have of it was in one I took for the insurance folks.

[Surf]

Work rig. 18.5" Remington 700 based rifle, Tango51 by Tactical Operations. It has been out to 1200 yards on 18"x30" steel.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_15461.jpg

A pair of them with suppressors.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd60/SSDSurf/Guns/IMG_14061.jpg

Edit to add - I have built several rifles based off the Rem700 SPS 20" rifles. Every rifle has been a sub MOA shooter out of the box. A simple stock swap and bedding job has put them in the .5MOA range. I have a 700P NIB waiting to get built. I am planning on going 18" on this rifle also.

[JB326]

I have a 20" R700 that rests in a Manners T4 that is my "go to rifle" when I need a bolt action. But, I also have an older model 700P that I cut down to 16" and it gets out of the safe a good bit too. Actually it has become my primary hunting rifle because it is so incredibly handy in the woods. Both of them are set up for my suppressor.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x212/shooter_john/029.jpg

[SLG]

Some good looking rifles there.

Surf, what stock is that 51 in?

[LittleLebowski]

LL,

I think that's the best factory base these days. How does it shoot? I have the plain old SPS tac, and wish yours was on the market when I bought the tac.


I finally got around to finding and using a 100 yard range near me. On my third visit to this range (after a disappointing 2 sessions and a thorough cleaning), I got the rifle to group at 3/4 of an inch (as measured by the marks on my multitool) using BH 168s and oddly enough, Lithuanian surplus. I think the rifle is probably somewhat limited by the shooter at this point...... I shot nearly identical groups through my Winchester 22-250 using cheap ammo...... However, the 22-250 has much better glass (Leupold 6-20x) and a better trigger. Switching to different targets seemed to help as the thick crosshairs on the PF 3-9x on the .308 didn't work as well for me as did the Leupold's.

[JV_]

using BH 168s and oddly enoughMy experience with with the BH 168s, which uses a Hornady bullet, is suboptimal. All of my 308s have liked the Fed 168s, a SMK, a lot better.

(but I do like the BH/Win brass better)

[LittleLebowski]

My experience with with the BH 168s, which uses a Hornady bullet, is suboptimal. All of my 308s have liked the Fed 168s, a SMK, a lot better.

(but I do like the BH/Win brass better)

I'm quite anxious to try some different bullets with this rifle; I'll be looking around locally for some 175s and different 168s (hopefully FGMMs) this week.

[JV_]

I will commit to bringing some 175s and 155s (Scenar) on Saturday - if we confirm it's a go.

[LittleLebowski]

Thanks, man.

[LittleLebowski]

I was browsing SnipersHide the other night and saw mention of a new precision .308 150 grain load. I don't remember who is producing it; does anyone else here have any data on it?

[JV_]

a new precision .308 150 grain load.
The Berger 30407?

[LittleLebowski]

The Berger 30407?

I think it was a complete load, not just a bullet and I don't remember which bullet was used. I'll look around.....

[justintime]

rem 700 aac-sd with 16" bbl :D .308

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b431/davisjustin10/581DAFEC-226D-4D71-A867-0183B58F5B5C-5111-000003B36D5D5C58.jpg

[MDS]

I'll be looking around locally for some 175s and different 168s (hopefully FGMMs) this week.

Just saw the following on gunbot.net: http://www.ammoman.com/c/18/308-762x51 Not as cheap as they were a few months ago when I stocked up, but...

[JV_]

I'm so glad I reload ....

[Odin Bravo One]

I am a big fan of the 175 and 185 SMK for a .308 rifle. Have turned in some pretty happy groups with both, and had some pretty smug moments when shooting for testing purposes at distance. Mostly dumb luck on my part......but the heavier bullets are the way to go for accuracy out of a .308.

[Odin Bravo One]

Not as cheap as they were a few months ago when I stocked up, but...

Not everyone gets shipped a surplus of FGMM by a dude on the internet. :cool:

But it was priced for ya huh?

Maybe I am too nice...........?

[TheRoland]

I'm so glad I reload ....

It's not that much better, these days. I've decided to create an appartment-based 308 reloading setup, and surprise, the run on everything included Lee Hand Presses.

[JV_]

It's not that much better, these days. I've decided to create an appartment-based 308 reloading setup, and surprise, the run on everything included Lee Hand Presses.

I stocked up on components, for rifle rounds, in 2008. I'm all set.

[Odin Bravo One]

If I couldn't get my ammo at a reasonable price, I would load .308 in a heartbeat. The cost benefit is definitely there, availability of components are abundent (at least in this area), and the ability to tune a load to your gun/chamber/rifling/optic will aid in serious accuracy shooting.

[JV_]

I am a big fan of the 175 and 185 SMK for a .308 rifle. Have turned in some pretty happy groups with both, and had some pretty smug moments when shooting for testing purposes at distance. Mostly dumb luck on my part......but the heavier bullets are the way to go for accuracy out of a .308.

Have you tried running the 155 Scenars? For me, they meet the accuracy of the 175s, and I get a lot less drop @ 1K. It's almost 3 MRad less drop at 1K than the 175s.

[MDS]

Not everyone gets shipped a surplus of FGMM by a dude on the internet. :cool:

But it was priced for ya huh?

Maybe I am too nice...........?

Oh, dude, I blew through that at Randy's practical rifle class, plus a couple hundred more I had. Some people are real slippery to pay back... ;) Anyway, I liked the fgmm enough that I stocked up on a couple of cases and still have enough for my anemic big rifle schedule - though once this drought passes, I need to get a 22lr stash like yours. I will never again wonder how much ammo is enough!

[Nate]

Have you tried running the 155 Scenars? For me, they meet the accuracy of the 175s, and I get a lot less drop @ 1K. It's almost 3 MRad less drop at 1K than the 175s.

The new 155 class bullets are excellent. (Sierra 2156 MatchKings, Berger 155 Hybrids and 155.5 Fullbore and the 155 Scenars--which have been around a while.) Unfortunately, the Scenars are *pricey*. The only reason I tried them a couple years ago was I got them for $15/100--and even then they were already over $45/100 from the cheaper online retailers. But they're good bullets--though you'd be hard pressed to go wrong with any of the new ones.

The (new) 155s compare favorably to the older generation of 175-185 class bullets on windage and drop. (I shoot known-distance prone, so drop doesn't matter at all to me, but windage and accuracy sure do.) And the higher BCs have significantly lowered the speed that you need at the muzzle to keep them out of the potentially problematic transonic region out to 1000 yards. It used to be you needed a very stout charge and a 30" tube to use the 155s at 1000, but with the newer ones, you can get away with a few hundred fps less, and that means you can use a much shorter barrel.

The newer 185 class bullets (Berger 185s: LRBT "Juggernaut" and Hybrids) are another big step up from the new 155s in terms of windage, but perhaps not so much if drop is a concern to you. (I don't remember the relative drop numbers, just the windage)

Disclosure: I shoot for the Remington HP team, and we get (slightly) discounted bullets from Berger.

[JV_]

the Scenars are *pricey*.I'm out of touch with prices. I bought thousands of them in 08/09, at $250 / 1K.

Before I made the switch from 175s, and I was running them at ASC, I got a first round hit at 1350Y with some interesting winds. After everyone in the relay went for their first try, I shot my 2nd and confirmed it. After that, I stocked up.

[LittleLebowski]

The new 155 class bullets are excellent. (Sierra 2156 MatchKings, Berger 155 Hybrids and 155.5 Fullbore and the 155 Scenars--which have been around a while.) Unfortunately, the Scenars are *pricey*. The only reason I tried them a couple years ago was I got them for $15/100--and even then they were already over $45/100 from the cheaper online retailers. But they're good bullets--though you'd be hard pressed to go wrong with any of the new ones.

The (new) 155s compare favorably to the older generation of 175-185 class bullets on windage and drop. (I shoot known-distance prone, so drop doesn't matter at all to me, but windage and accuracy sure do.) And the higher BCs have significantly lowered the speed that you need at the muzzle to keep them out of the potentially problematic transonic region out to 1000 yards. It used to be you needed a very stout charge and a 30" tube to use the 155s at 1000, but with the newer ones, you can get away with a few hundred fps less, and that means you can use a much shorter barrel.

The newer 185 class bullets (Berger 185s: LRBT "Juggernaut" and Hybrids) are another big step up from the new 155s in terms of windage, but perhaps not so much if drop is a concern to you. (I don't remember the relative drop numbers, just the windage)

Disclosure: I shoot for the Remington HP team, and we get (slightly) discounted bullets from Berger.

Very interesting post, thanks for sharing.

[Nate]

I'm out of touch with prices. I bought thousands of them in 08/09, at $250 / 1K.


That was a good deal even then. I just looked up the prices on Powder Valley: $46/100 for the Scenars, $41/100 for the 155 Berger* Hybrids (my favorite .308 pill), so the price premium isn't as big as it used to be--assuming I'm remembering it correctly.

Either way, the Scenars shot well out of my Palma gun--as did the Sierra 155s (new 2156s), the Berger* 155 Hybrids, and the Berger 200 Hybrids. There are so many good .308 match bullets out there now. For the longest time the .308 was something of a wasteland of bullet choice. There were bullets that were easy to get to shoot well, but none with good form factors (that is to say, none were very sleek. Heavy, so they got a decent BC, but not sleek, so they didn't have the BC they could have for their sectional density). The new 155s are great, and the new heavy Bergers* are really sleek. Sierra is probably working on a new design for heavy .308s as a result. I think Lapua recently came out with (or announced, anyway) some new, sleeker, heavyweight .308 bullets, too. Anyway, if you're interested in cutting down on your wind drift with a .30 cal bullet, you've got a bunch of good new choices.

*See disclosure on my previous post, and sorry to do the equivalent of name dropping, but I'd rather err on the side of not breaking Todd's disclosure rules...