PDA

View Full Version : RANGE RULES: No You Can’t Retrieve Your Silencer



HCM
05-14-2017, 10:04 AM
RANGE RULES: No You Can’t Retrieve Your Silencer


Unfortunately, the range rules can be arbitrary and focused on liability rather than the protection of your gear. One Reddit user found this out the hard way when his silencer became unmounted enough to fly down range and into the backstop.

However, as the story goes, the range safety officer (RSO) refused to call the the line cold so that the customer could retrieve his silencer. In fact, the shooter was told to come back at the end of the night, and when he did, he was given the remains of his can.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/05/11/range-rules-silencer-shot/

Supposedly they refuse to call a cease fire, the guy leaves and comes back the next morning to find his can has taken two bullet strikes and his suppressor cover is missing.

Thoughts on this ? Legit story?

If true, would you leave your can there or call the cops ? Personally they can have me trespassed from the place but I would not be leaving without my suppressor.

Kyle Reese
05-14-2017, 10:23 AM
Sounds like a power tripping RO.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

BehindBlueI's
05-14-2017, 10:27 AM
If true, would you leave your can there or call the cops ?

At least here, calling the cops will get you nothing. It's a civil issue. They did not steal it. The idea they "took possession of it" is quite a stretch. The shooter put in there, unintentionally, but he put it there. I can't throw my ball in your yard then cry you stole it, even if you won't chain up your dogs for me to get it. If they were negligent or not, well juries are weird creatures, but I don't see where they have any duty to protect property you placed in a dangerous location.

blues
05-14-2017, 10:28 AM
Irresponsible at a minimum if true. If true, I hope he gets his pound of flesh. He deserves it.

HCM
05-14-2017, 10:34 AM
At least here, calling the cops will get you nothing. It's a civil issue. They did not steal it. The idea they "took possession of it" is quite a stretch. The shooter put in there, unintentionally, but he put it there. I can't throw my ball in your yard then cry you stole it, even if you won't chain up your dogs for me to get it. If they were negligent or not, well juries are weird creatures, but I don't see where they have any duty to protect property you placed in a dangerous location.

Private property and a public business are two different situations. Plus ceasefires are a common and accepted practice for many reasons in that industry. Unless they have something in the range rules stating no ceasefires and providing notice ahead of time, there is no reason a cease fire would not be expected. There is a big difference between a $1 paper target going down and a $1,000 legally restricted item.

busykngt
05-14-2017, 10:51 AM
I've gotta call BS on that story! AND if by some fluke of galactic alignments, his suppressor chose to depart his firearm, then there was some greater issue at play here. [emoji897]


--
What we need is more unemployed politicians.

voodoo_man
05-14-2017, 10:56 AM
If true I'd definitely sue the range for damages which could have been prevented.

HCM
05-14-2017, 11:07 AM
I've gotta call BS on that story! AND if by some fluke of galactic alignments, his suppressor chose to depart his firearm, then there was some greater issue at play here. [emoji897]


--
What we need is more unemployed politicians.

Knock on wood, I've never launched a can but I've seen suppressors launched down range, even during manufacturers demos with cans mounted by the factory rep. It happens.

BehindBlueI's
05-14-2017, 12:52 PM
Private property and a public business are two different situations. Plus ceasefires are a common and accepted practice for many reasons in that industry. Unless they have something in the range rules stating no ceasefires and providing notice ahead of time, there is no reason a cease fire would not be expected. There is a big difference between a $1 paper target going down and a $1,000 legally restricted item.

As a cop, I can enforce law, not industry best practices. Legally, no, there's no difference between a business and private property in this instance, at least in my state. There is no legal authority for me to force a cease fire, and retrieval if your property is a civil matter.

ReverendMeat
05-14-2017, 12:55 PM
I've gotta call BS on that story!

Uh, okay. Still happened though, more details in the reddit thread.

whomever
05-14-2017, 09:42 PM
Knock on wood, I've never launched a can but I've seen suppressors launched down range, even during manufacturers demos with cans mounted by the factory rep. It happens.

Might I ask what the failure modes were? Absent a baffle strike, having the threads strip seems unlikely, for a direct thread. Maybe some of the quick-attach ones can end up not really attached?

(I'm asking because I'd rather avoid whatever those failure modes are!)

HCM
05-14-2017, 09:51 PM
Might I ask what the failure modes were? Absent a baffle strike, having the threads strip seems unlikely, for a direct thread. Maybe some of the quick-attach ones can end up not really attached?

(I'm asking because I'd rather avoid whatever those failure modes are!)

Direct Threads can loosen from vibrations. The failures I was referring to were SILENCERCO Saker mounts. I believe there is a reason they seem to have returned to the ASR mounting system.

Clusterfrack
05-14-2017, 09:52 PM
Yes, I read about how the 1st gen Surefire SOCOM cans could appear to be locked on, but weren't. Supposedly some operators launched cans at the enemy. I wonder if any were taken out by impact from a flying suppressor?

wrmettler
05-14-2017, 10:34 PM
The original story says the suppressor is an NFA item. I think the owner was correct in that the NFA item was out of his possession and control. Isn't that a federal criminal offense? Maybe both the owner and the ranger people may have been in violation when they both left the restricted item without anyone in possession. Certainly, someone who worked at the range could have picked it up and left with it, right.

So, I would have placed a call to ATF from the range manager's office to let ATF know that the range was now in possession of a restricted item and to contact the range to discuss that fact with them, and also to perhaps, while the ATF people were there, review the range's 4473 forms, because if the range is that negligent with NFA rules, perhaps it is as negligent in other rules as well.
The range should not have interfered with the guys possession of a restricted item.

Robinson
05-14-2017, 11:08 PM
This same thing actually happened to me the first time I fired a rifle with my Omega attached. I use the ASR mount, which is a good system, but I simply failed to lock it in place. Stupid move. Anyway, the first shot launched my suppressor down range. A cease fire was immediately called and after the RO and I both checked to make sure everyone had stepped away from the line I went and retrieved it. No drama ensued.

I've fired both my equipped rifles with the suppressor lots of times since then and haven't made the same mistake twice. :)

voodoo_man
05-15-2017, 04:36 AM
Yes, I read about how the 1st gen Surefire SOCOM cans could appear to be locked on, but weren't. Supposedly some operators launched cans at the enemy. I wonder if any were taken out by impact from a flying suppressor?

It's also in the manual...to shoot them off your gun if they get stuck...

GuanoLoco
05-15-2017, 12:42 PM
Assertiveness works - Walk the line loudly calling a cease fire, and go down and retrieve your suppressor. Have a nice day. I would not have left it behind.

orionz06
05-15-2017, 01:24 PM
Assertiveness works - Walk the line loudly calling a cease fire, and go down and retrieve your suppressor. Have a nice day. I would not have left it behind.

In theory anyone should be able to do this. I've seen similar for other odds and ends falling off of guns. People, no matter how stupid, tend to listen when you get a few others on your side and act in charge.



This makes me wonder if an air horn might be a good range bag item.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

theJanitor
05-19-2017, 07:50 PM
This makes me wonder if an air horn might be a good range bag item.



Off to buy an air horn. Damn good idea

Peally
05-19-2017, 08:00 PM
Airhorns will only make people think you MLG 360 no-scoped a target.

Peally
05-19-2017, 08:01 PM
Yes, I read about how the 1st gen Surefire SOCOM cans could appear to be locked on, but weren't. Supposedly some operators launched cans at the enemy. I wonder if any were taken out by impact from a flying suppressor?

I would buy that man a beer.

mmc45414
05-20-2017, 08:43 AM
Anytime I read of something this outlandish my initial thought is there has got to be some kind of backstory not included in the www posting.

LittleLebowski
05-20-2017, 11:46 AM
The range is making this right.

Drang
05-20-2017, 01:39 PM
The range is making this right.
Good.
I have to disagree with the suggestion that the shooter should have called a cease fire and retrieved his property without notifying range staff. That's fine when it's you and the boys down at the gravel pit, or at the club, but at a commercial facility one should defer to the staff, who carry the liability as well as the responsibility for facilities. At least tell them "I lost some expensive and sensitive gear down range, how do you want to handle it?" Emphasize that this is not just dropping a p-mag just out of reach forward of the position.
(Anyone can call a cease fire for safety issues, of course, but "I somehow launched a piece of my gun" probably only turns into a safety issue when you run downrange to get it without telling anyone.)

voodoo_man
05-20-2017, 04:10 PM
The range is making this right.

https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder437/500x/48437/you-cant-if-you-dont-if-you-didnt-fuck-up-in-the-first-place-you-wouldnt-have-to-make-it-right.jpg