Best new 1911 for less than $1911?

[pastaslinger]

As the title says, what would your go to 1911 be for less than $1911?

The Dan Wessons are very nice but which is best for the money for self defense, competition, and all around use? Let's ignore concealed carry so as to not weight the main deciding factor although the Valkyrie commander looks awesome.

[DAB]

i like my new Colt Gold Cup Trophy (o5070xe), msrp is 1699.

[1911Nut]

The Dan Wesson Valor.

[sierra 223]

Larry Vickers recently posted on a similar question on another site.
If I remember correctly, he stated for less than a $1,000 buy a Colt, for less than $2,000 buy a Dan Wesson.

[Amp]

In the Dan Wesson line I would look at the Valor. I don't own one but have seen several at matches and classes. They all have ran well and I have been impressed with the quality of the ones that I have handled.

[JohnO]

Dan Wesson Valor all day every day. I have two.

[ReverendMeat]

DW Valor.

[pastaslinger]

Interesting, I would think more people would say the Specialist over the Valor given the features.

If they made a PM-7 that actually had th e same features as a PM-9 then I would pick that but since that isn't available and the custom equivalent from Dan Wesson is like $2200 I would go for the Specialist. If the Silverback had a plain blsck serrated rear sight that would be my vote, but I dislike the 3 dot adjustables and the grips look ugly to me.

[Tamara]

Larry Vickers recently posted on a similar question on another site.
If I remember correctly, he stated for less than a $1,000 buy a Colt, for less than $2,000 buy a Dan Wesson.

I don't see anything worth getting into a thumb-wrestling match over angels dancing on a pinhead with that statement. You're unlikely to go far wrong if you stick with it.

[Larry Sellers]

Valor all day and twice on sunday. Valkyrie commander is the way to go if you're going to venture down the carry route.

[Totem Polar]

I went down this road recently, and ended up with a DW V-BOB. No complaints at all on how it fulfilled the wish, even though I'm moving on and going back to 9mm Glocks.

[TC215]

Another vote for Dan Wesson. I'd put them up there with my Wilsons and Browns. You get more for your money with DW than probably any other 1911.

[JTQ]

Generally, the sub $2,000 winner is a Les Baer TRS/UTC/Premier.

They have some oddities about them, so I'd probably join the crowd with the Dan Wesson choice. Springfield TRP would also be a worthwhile choice.

[BWT]

I'm happy with my TRP.

That being said if we're looking at a solid 2k? I'd be tempted to go after the Warren SACS gun.

God Bless,

Brandon

[TC215]

Generally, the sub $2,000 winner is a Les Baer TRS/UTC/Premier.

They have some oddities about them, so I'd probably join the crowd with the Dan Wesson choice. Springfield TRP would also be a worthwhile choice.

I've had two Baers, one of them being a UTC. I'd still choose DW any day.

[OlongJohnson]

If the Silverback had a plain blsck serrated rear sight that would be my vote, but I dislike the 3 dot adjustables and the grips look ugly to me.

I'm sure that blade/block can be changed, and at least the slide is cut for the adjustable if you want it. If you don't want adjustable, Valor all the way.

Grips are personal and subject to change.

Silverback can occasionally be had at a sufficiently low price to support a return home to get the silver parts turned black and stay under a $1911 budget, if that's your thing. Keith actually suggested doing it this way, rather than ordering a custom-built gun from DW at full retail, FWIW. He also suggested getting 200 of the 500 recommended break-in rounds through it before sending it back to have Duty Treat harden the surfaces of the rails.

[HCM]

Dan Wesson Valor all day every day. I have two.

This ^^^ though I only have one right now :-)

[HCM]

Generally, the sub $2,000 winner is a Les Baer TRS/UTC/Premier.

They have some oddities about them, so I'd probably join the crowd with the Dan Wesson choice. Springfield TRP would also be a worthwhile choice.

That was true when they were under $2,000. Now you will only find sub $2k Baers in the used market.

I have a couple older Baers which I am happy with but the QC on the new ones is inconsistent.

[pastaslinger]

I still see Baers under $2k

The Warren gun I actually forgot about

I have considered the Silverback with the intention of selling the sights.

[Robinson]

Larry Vickers recently posted on a similar question on another site.
If I remember correctly, he stated for less than a $1,000 buy a Colt, for less than $2,000 buy a Dan Wesson.

That's not bad advice at all, though I will say the new Gold Cup Trophy compares nicely with the Dan Wesson Pointman 9.

The Colt Combat Unit Pistol is worth looking at if you want a rail gun. The Special Combat Government is normally found at a price higher than $1911. Even now that they are shipping with checkered front straps, whether or not the quality matches a Dan Wesson in the same price range is debatable.

If you are considering a 9mm, I seem to see more reports of reliability issues with DW than with Colt.

[45dotACP]

Dan Wesson gets high marks from just about everyone I know.

Probably a reason for that.

Still. I'd be a huge fan of a standard government model Colt in .45 ACP or a Commander in 9mm. Add a Kart EZ fit or Ed Brown semi drop in barrel and you've got a nice gat for a little less than a DW. Probably not as refined, but all my 1911s are...shall you say...Blue collar.

Function over form in a 1911 is a bit of an oxymoron, yet here I am.

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[Default.mp3]

Don't forget that CZ offers a nice pro deal on the Dan Wesson line, should you qualify.

[pastaslinger]

That's not bad advice at all, though I will say the new Gold Cup Trophy compares nicely with the Dan Wesson Pointman 9.

The Colt Combat Unit Pistol is worth looking at if you want a rail gun. The Special Combat Government is normally found at a price higher than $1911. Even now that they are shipping with checkered front straps, whether or not the quality matches a Dan Wesson in the same price range is debatable.

If you are considering a 9mm, I seem to see more reports of reliability issues with DW than with Colt.

Might be because no one buys Colts anymore

Colt fit and finish I have seen in stores is horrendous, I would much faster take a Springfield range officer then upgrade it

[JHC]

I was amazed at the prices of Valors and other DW models on the "Grabagun" site. Way less than I expected. I've encountered very few in the flesh.

FWIW at an $1100 price point I'm totally smitten by my recent SA LB Operator. In conversation at the NRAAM with Rob Leatham he opined that the difference in build quality between the MC Operator/LB Operator class and their higher end guns has gotten much narrower than it used to be. I didn't press for details but my LB Operator accuracy wise is hanging with my Dave Sams full custom and I'm astounded by that.

[TC215]

If you are considering a 9mm, I seem to see more reports of reliability issues with DW than with Colt.

I started shooting Dan Wesson 9mm's about 6 years ago, and have had 5 of them total, without the first issue. I used a couple in a few classes, training for work, etc.

DW has been making 9mm 1911's for a long time, and I think they, along with Wilson, are probably the best as far as the 9mm's go.

[JonInWA]

Colt 70 Series; my stainless (unfortunately now discontinued...) has excellent fit, finish function. My only change has been to switch out the beautiful rosewood grips for a set of Hogue G10s, and that was purely aesthetic (althoughe the G10s do have a grippier surface).

For $1K to $1.5K, would probably still recommend some of the more upstream Colts.

Currently I'm pretty underwhelmed by the cost-versus-value aspect of 1911s over $1,500.

I also am back in my Glock primary mode.

Best, Jon

[Robinson]

I started shooting Dan Wesson 9mm's about 6 years ago, and have had 5 of them total, without the first issue. I used a couple in a few classes, training for work, etc.

DW has been making 9mm 1911's for a long time, and I think they, along with Wilson, are probably the best as far as the 9mm's go.

That's great -- I like Dan Wesson pistols. Whenever I examine them at the LGS I am impressed by the apparent quality. I am more likely to give weight to what a member here such as yourself posts about it than on other gun forums.

My Colt 9mm pistols all run reliably, though one had to go back to Colt for an ejection issue.

[jwperry]

I was amazed at the prices of Valors and other DW models on the "Grabagun" site. Way less than I expected. I've encountered very few in the flesh.

FWIW at an $1100 price point I'm totally smitten by my recent SA LB Operator. In conversation at the NRAAM with Rob Leatham he opined that the difference in build quality between the MC Operator/LB Operator class and their higher end guns has gotten much narrower than it used to be. I didn't press for details but my LB Operator accuracy wise is hanging with my Dave Sams full custom and I'm astounded by that.

I'm kind of surprised no one else has really mentioned this class of Springfields or the Combat Operator(which looks like and specs out as a Professional LR - lite).

[pastaslinger]

I'm kind of surprised no one else has really mentioned this class of Springfields or the Combat Operator(which looks like and specs out as a Professional LR - lite).

I would just go for the TRP for not much more since checkering after the fact is so expensive and you get the magwell

However given that the TRP is as much as a Specialist... Dan Wesson still wins for me at least

Whoever mentioned just customizing a Silverback, that idea is sounding better the more I think about it. I found a pic of one online with VZ aliens in black and a DW duty treat magwell, it looks amazing. Would do the same plus change sights.

[StraitR]

45ACP - I prefer 5" Govt models, and think DW or Les Baer make great examples of both. I think it's easy to decide between the two, as their manufacturing processes and philosophies are polar opposite of each other. DW are full production, and as such, turn out carbon copies. They've been at it for a while, and seem to have the recipe for putting out reliable 1911's down pat. Les Baer, likes to build guns by hand. So, the "idiosyncrasies" people speak of are a result of that human process. Fitting by hand, checkering by hand, etc etc, will often show it's obvious marks. Whether that's good or bad, is up to you. Again, the differences are so stark, that the decision between a DW or LB should be relatively easy based on your preferences.

9mm - I like Commander sized guns. At the $1911 price point, I'd go with whatever flavor of DW you fancy. Colt makes a great pistol, but I'm not interested in a non-ramped 9mm barrel, especially on a LW frame.

In many offline conversations lately with other PF members, I've commented that I believe DW and Les Baer are the sweet spot for 1911's, and this thread basically explains why. I love my Wilson CCP, but after having it for nearly nine months, it's just a gun. I love it because it runs like a sewing machine, not for the top serrations, rear serrations, ball cuts, carry cuts, barrel fluting, you get the picture. I think when you venture past DW and LB price points, you're often paying for fluff and bragging rights. I recently went shopping for a new 1911 and set $2k as my ceiling, I ended up with a Baer TRS based on my preferences. Hard to go wrong with either company, really.

[45dotACP]

45ACP - I prefer 5" Govt models, and think DW or Les Baer make great examples of both. I think it's easy to decide between the two, as their manufacturing processes and philosophies are polar opposite of each other. DW are full production, and as such, turn out carbon copies. They've been at it for a while, and seem to have the recipe for putting out reliable 1911's down pat. Les Baer, likes to build guns by hand. So, the "idiosyncrasies" people speak of are a result of that human process. Fitting by hand, checkering by hand, etc etc, will often show it's obvious marks. Whether that's good or bad, is up to you. Again, the differences are so stark, that the decision between a DW or LB should be relatively easy based on your preferences.

9mm - I like Commander sized guns. At the $1911 price point, I'd go with whatever flavor of DW you fancy. Colt makes a great pistol, but I'm not interested in a non-ramped 9mm barrel, especially on a LW frame.

In many offline conversations lately with other PF members, I've commented that I believe DW and Les Baer are the sweet spot for 1911's, and this thread basically explains why. I love my Wilson CCP, but after having it for nearly nine months, it's just a gun. I love it because it runs like a sewing machine, not for the top serrations, rear serrations, ball cuts, carry cuts, barrel fluting, you get the picture. I think when you venture past DW and LB price points, you're often paying for fluff and bragging rights. I recently went shopping for a new 1911 and set $2k as my ceiling, I ended up with a Baer TRS based on my preferences. Hard to go wrong with either company, really.
I like the way you think about 1911s and especially their calibers. I think the Commander is ideal for 9mm vs the 5" models because, as has been noted, some 115gr factory ammo just doesn't have enough ass to cycle a big, heavy gun.

I'm fairly inclined to work on my guns so to me "best value" means something different...usually gun made by Colt or Springfield and a sale at Brownells.

Checkering would be nice, but honestly, I just get the wraparound Pachmayr grips. They're ugly, but they're a lot more useful than I thought they'd be. Also, I'm possibly one of the only 1911 guys who doesn't even care that his 1911s are ugly.

I recently shot my Caspian side by side with a Wilson CQB and walked away realizing that both guns are about equal in my hands. Bill Wilson builds a mean pistol and it was really sweet, but for me, it's like you said...diminished returns. My skills as a shooter...well a B class single stack guy who occasionally throws down a decent 25 yard group, so take what I say with a grain of salt. I'm not a good enough shooter to take a high accuracy shot on demand...but the extra accuracy never hurts. I'll replace a barrel if the gun just won't group well for me...like I did with my Colt.

If you don't like or have interest in wrenching on your guns and cursing and filing and sometimes crying, I'd probably just say the TRP or Dan Wesson Valor are the better 1911s under 2 grand...maybe a Les Baer if you find a good deal.

But if you're​ enough of a masochist...well it opens a lot of doors.

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[Buckshot]

No one has said STI, so I will. Great QC & out of the box accuracy. Unfortunately, they did away with half of their single stack models this year.

[Rex G]

I paid $1495 for my Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special, but that was about seventeen years ago, and reflected a $200 LE discount. I recently replaced the rear sight, in order to have a wider notch for my aging eyes, so it needs trialing/sighting-in. An alternative might be to install a red-dot optic. If it goes well, with either option, this one will resume its place among my first-line weapons.

My two Series 80 Government Models were reliable, one from the first round, and the other after about 200 rounds. I did cherry-pick them at local dealers, in the Nineties, because Colt has had problems with fit and finish at various times in the past. I wish I had kept them.

I was recently tempted to buy a seemingly nicely-put-together Colt Combat Unit, with a rail, for under $1911, but did not buy, so cannot comment upon reliability.

[Dddrees]

For the money and most places I've checked many have said that a Dan Wesson is very comparable to 1911s which cost more. It just seems when the under 2k budget is mentioned you get a few others but a Dan Wesson is mentioned more often.

[HCM]

I would just go for the TRP for not much more since checkering after the fact is so expensive and you get the magwell

However given that the TRP is as much as a Specialist... Dan Wesson still wins for me at least

Whoever mentioned just customizing a Silverback, that idea is sounding better the more I think about it. I found a pic of one online with VZ aliens in black and a DW duty treat magwell, it looks amazing. Would do the same plus change sights.

IME the SA guns are hit or miss. I lucked out about 10 years ago and got a vey nice out of the box MC Operator but my 9mm Combat Operator was a disappointment.

Colts made in the last 10-15 years are good guns but universally seem to suffer from sharp edges.

For a little more $$$ the Dan Wesson's are just more consistent QC-wise.

[Robinson]

IME the SA guns are hit or miss. I lucked out about 10 years ago and got a vey nice out of the box MC Operator but my 9mm Combat Operator was a disappointment.

Colts made in the last 10-15 years are good guns but universally seem to suffer from sharp edges.

For a little more $$$ the Dan Wesson's are just more consistent QC-wise.

True, true, and true.

I've cut myself on my Colts a few times -- mostly the basic 1991 models. To be honest I don't think about it much though.

The Dan Wesson guns are almost like a sweet spot as far as what you get for the price. I will say that the higher end Colts I've owned and examined recently have been very nice. My Lwt Commander and my stainless CCP are a couple of the better guns I've owned. But I wouldn't buy a Colt sight unseen.

A LGS currently has a DW Valor 9mm and a DW Pointman 9 in stock. That would be a nice pair to have. They also have several Colts but none of the higher end models.

[Welder]

No one has said STI, so I will. Great QC & out of the box accuracy. Unfortunately, they did away with half of their single stack models this year.

I too am wondering where the STI love is. Has something gone wrong with them recently?

[TheNewbie]

Could you not get a colt 1991 and send it in for some custom work and still be under 1911$?

[Robinson]

Could you not get a colt 1991 and send it in for some custom work and still be under 1911$?

Yes, depending on what and by whom. But I'm not sure Colt's current lineup suffers from a lack of features, other than they should offer more models with tritium sights.

If you look at the top Colt models, such as the Special Combat Government, Combat Unit Rail Gun, and the new Gold Cup Trophy they compete well on features with other makers. As others have mentioned, I think the way Dan Wesson exceeds Colt is in more consistent build quality.

[TheNewbie]

Yes, depending on what and by whom. But I'm not sure Colt's current lineup suffers from a lack of features, other than they should offer more models with tritium sights.

If you look at the top Colt models, such as the Special Combat Government, Combat Unit Rail Gun, and the new Gold Cup Trophy they compete well on features with other makers. As others have mentioned, I think the way Dan Wesson exceeds Colt is in more consistent build quality.


Does the Dan Wesson have a recommended break in period? Maybe I misread that but I thought someone mentioned it. I figured for that money it should work out of the box. Of course you want to test all firearms to ensure they work .

[TC215]

Does the Dan Wesson have a recommended break in period? Maybe I misread that but I thought someone mentioned it. I figured for that money it should work out of the box. Of course you want to test all firearms to ensure they work .

They mention a 500 round break-in period in the manual, but all mine have always run right out of the box.

[TheNewbie]

They mention a 500 round break-in period in the manual, but all mine have always run right out of the box.

Cool. The Dan Wesson valor blues version looks very tempting. It's about the same price I would spend as if I got a colt 1991 and had it customized.

[TC215]

They had a blued Valor on display at the NRA show. None of the photos online do the finish justice. I'd like to have one at some point.

[TheNewbie]

They had a blued Valor on display at the NRA show. None of the photos online do the finish justice. I'd like to have one at some point.

Looks like with LE pricing they had been had for under $1,600. Not sure what they are going for normal pricing wise.

Does DW offer increased reliability over the Colt?

[TC215]

Looks like with LE pricing they had been had for under $1,600. Not sure what they are going for normal pricing wise.

Does DW offer increased reliability over the Colt?

Normal pricing is between $1500-$1600. The LE price is a couple hundred below that.


I've had over 30 1911's, and the only Colt I've had was a GI gun built in 1913. I'm just not real interested in them. I've never had any reliability issues with any of my DW's.

[Bart Carter]

I had to put my thoughts in on my 9mm, S&W Performance Center Pro Series 178017.

I have shot many 1911s, though admittedly no high (over $2K) end ones. I decided that I wanted something that I could really appreciate. I couldn't have been more pleased. The gun is just so perfect to operate. So smooth. Although I only have abut 1,500 rounds through it, never had a malfunction.

Matte SS, 30 LPI checkered front strap, hand polished integral feed ramp, precision crowned muzzle, over-sized external extractor, full length guide rod, double sided frame safety, extended mag well, Stoned hammer and sear, dehorned, Wilson ETM magazines.

If I ever need to buy another 1911, I see no need to look any farther. Can find them for $12-1300.

[TheNewbie]

Normal pricing is between $1500-$1600. The LE price is a couple hundred below that.


I've had over 30 1911's, and the only Colt I've had was a GI gun built in 1913. I'm just not real interested in them. I've never had any reliability issues with any of my DW's.

I love to be corrected when I am wrong, especially if it saves me money!

[JAD]

They mention a 500 round break-in period in the manual, but all mine have always run right out of the box.

Mine too once I ditched the Checkmate mags.

[45dotACP]

Looks like with LE pricing they had been had for under $1,600. Not sure what they are going for normal pricing wise.

Does DW offer increased reliability over the Colt?
Just my .02 but reliability in a 1911 is not something every company who mass produces them can guarantee. Most of it boils down to your extractor and almost every company sets it too low.

It's usually best to make sure for yourself, DW, Colt, Springfield...unless the extractor is being hand fit, tested and installed the gurantee of reliability is an educated guess at most.

Fortunately, proper tension is easy to check, extractors can be easily fit and some types are durable as hell. EGW HDs are stupid beefy and I'd put them up against nearly any external piece. I'm not affiliated with them, but the guy who runs things caters to 1911 dudes who like to DIY.

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[Dddrees]

Does the Dan Wesson have a recommended break in period? Maybe I misread that but I thought someone mentioned it. I figured for that money it should work out of the box. Of course you want to test all firearms to ensure they work .

It's not a matter of not working right out of the box as it is that they are made to such tight standards that a bit of break in is recommended. The manual recommends firing no more than 50 rounds before cleaning for the first 500 rounds.

[ReverendMeat]

The manual recommends firing no more than 50 rounds before cleaning for the first 500 rounds.

Oops. Definitely didn't do that on mine.

Sounds like a bizarre ritual that's written into the manual so the manufacturer can avoid doing warranty work. Like that FN "send it back for inspection every 2k rounds" thing.

[TC215]

Oops. Definitely didn't do that on mine.

Sounds like a bizarre ritual that's written into the manual so the manufacturer can avoid doing warranty work. Like that FN "send it back for inspection every 2k rounds" thing.

I've never done it with any of mine either, but DW is known for having good CS, even beyond warranty work. Not a lot of manufacturers out there that will swap out front sights on their dime so the customer can get their desired POA/POI.

[ReverendMeat]

Never said anything bad about their CS. CS dep't didn't write the owner's manual anyway.

[TC215]

Guess I took "written into the manual so the manufacturer can avoid doing warranty work" to mean they would try to avoid doing warranty work.

[ReverendMeat]

Yeah, being boilerplate CYA stuff in case a user does something stupid and wants their gun fixed for free. Or trying to send their gun in after it malf'd on crappy handloads first magazine out of the box. Gun manuals are half written by lawyers anyway, so it makes sense to me.

[Odin Bravo One]

Im willing to test a 1911 with a price point under $2k to see if any are worthy, or if it's just a really expensive base gun. I mean, if someone else pays for the gun and ammo.

[Robinson]

Does DW offer increased reliability over the Colt?

I've been impressed by the reliability of the Colts I've owned in recent years. And the fit/finish has been fine -- in fact the Series 70 guns I owned were extremely nice.

Overall from a fit/finish and build quality standpoint I'd give the edge to Dan Wesson. But I doubt there's much difference from a reliability standpoint.

[OlongJohnson]

I like the fact that when you submit a question to DW through the online form on the web site, you're likely to get a response from Keith Lawton. Then you have the personal email address of the guy in charge. Don't know any other firearm company where that's the case.

[Gio]

I'd echo the support for Dan Wesson. I have a specialist that has been almost perfect. I did replace the extractor in it with a Wilson Bulletproof extractor because the ejection pattern was rather random and it wouldn't pass the 1911 extractor test, but it did not have any malfunctions with the old extractor and it has flawless ejection with the new one.

I bought the specialist to use as a single stack USPSA gun to be as close as possible to a springfield professional that I carried as a service weapon. The specialist runs just as well as the pro does, and I wouldn't personally spend more money on a 1911 if a Dan Wesson model had the features you wanted.

[JHC]

I like the fact that when you submit a question to DW through the online form on the web site, you're likely to get a response from Keith Lawton. Then you have the personal email address of the guy in charge. Don't know any other firearm company where that's the case.

I've found speaking with their CS that you can buy the pistol and then send them the slide for custom engraving. Routine. Pretty slick. Not sure of the price to do so though. It depends I'm sure.

[StraitR]

Im willing to test a 1911 with a price point under $2k to see if any are worthy, or if it's just a really expensive base gun. I mean, if someone else pays for the gun and ammo.

Sean, I'll meet you half way and send you a spanky new Baer TRS, you just have to feed it. Subsequent wear and potential breakage are not a concern, I'll happily pay to fix it if you flush out any demons. Was purchased as a second 1911 to accompany my EDC Wilson, so all I'm after is a vetted backup. Give you the same open ended timeline you graciously gave me on the ACOG, which is, just send it back when you're done.

[Odin Bravo One]

Doubtful I'd find anything from a Baer that needs addressed. Maybe it needs to be broken in, I've found them to be pretty tight brand new.

I'd take you up on it, if I were not moving in a few weeks, which will take months to finally get settled in. By then I'll have three more custom 1911s back from their respective Smith's that I'll need to pop the cherry on.

[Robinson]

Doubtful I'd find anything from a Baer that needs addressed. Maybe it needs to be broken in, I've found them to be pretty tight brand new.

I'd take you up on it, if I were not moving in a few weeks, which will take months to finally get settled in. By then I'll have three more custom 1911s back from their respective Smith's that I'll need to pop the cherry on.

I'd like to see pics of those custom builds if you don't mind posting some when the time comes.

[Odin Bravo One]

Sure. I'll probably just post the ones sent to me from the photographer the gunsmith uses. Two are identical except for caliber (his/hers matching pair) so I won't post a ton of each.....

[StraitR]

Doubtful I'd find anything from a Baer that needs addressed. Maybe it needs to be broken in, I've found them to be pretty tight brand new.

I'd take you up on it, if I were not moving in a few weeks, which will take months to finally get settled in. By then I'll have three more custom 1911s back from their respective Smith's that I'll need to pop the cherry on.

Tracking. My issue is also time. When I find time to shoot, I'm still working on the Wilson.

Looking forward to seeing the customs, and good luck with the move.

[TC215]

Doubtful I'd find anything from a Baer that needs addressed. Maybe it needs to be broken in, I've found them to be pretty tight brand new.

I'd take you up on it, if I were not moving in a few weeks, which will take months to finally get settled in. By then I'll have three more custom 1911s back from their respective Smith's that I'll need to pop the cherry on.

I'll make the same offer, but with a Dan Wesson, if you get the time and want to it through the wringer.

[pastaslinger]

I think my next purchase will either be a DW Specialist with some replacement sights (like a Dawson fiber front and Heinie ledge style rear) or a PCC

Specialist feature set is just excellent for the money. I think I would also spring for duty treat over stainless due to concerns of galling and also the extra wear resistance.

[JTQ]

I think I would also spring for duty treat over stainless due to concerns of galling and also the extra wear resistance.
I'm pretty sure galling isn't an issue anymore, and hasn't been one for a couple of decades at least.

The Duty Treatment finish on the other hand, has some reports of incompatibility with some common lubes/cleaners. I'm not a Dan Wesson guy, so I don't specifically know what those products are, but they've been commented on in the various forums.

[JohnO]

I'm pretty sure galling isn't an issue anymore, and hasn't been one for a couple of decades at least.

The Duty Treatment finish on the other hand, has some reports of incompatibility with some common lubes/cleaners. I'm not a Dan Wesson guy, so I don't specifically know what those products are, but they've been commented on in the various forums.

I believe the concern with Duty Treat and certain chemicals has to due with finish discoloration. Like the typical gun guy I have a healthy assortment of lubes and cleaners acquired over the years. My Duty Treat Valor has experienced a vast assortment of these cleaners and I have never found a problem. Frankly I don't care what it looks like just whether or not it works. It has run flawlessly with what ever I put on it. I suppose if you want a babied safe queen that you polish occasionally with a soft cloth you should stick with the factory recommended products. Otherwise how many carpenters do you know who worry about what their hammer looks like?

[pastaslinger]

I'm pretty sure galling isn't an issue anymore, and hasn't been one for a couple of decades at least.

The Duty Treatment finish on the other hand, has some reports of incompatibility with some common lubes/cleaners. I'm not a Dan Wesson guy, so I don't specifically know what those products are, but they've been commented on in the various forums.

Galling is real and is just more likely because of the stainless steel, lots of talk about it on the Dan Wesson forum on 1911forum

Last night I actually looked up some PVD coatings and would be interested in getting the stainless Specialist then coating it in something like TiCN

[TC215]

I'm pretty sure galling isn't an issue anymore, and hasn't been one for a couple of decades at least.

The Duty Treatment finish on the other hand, has some reports of incompatibility with some common lubes/cleaners. I'm not a Dan Wesson guy, so I don't specifically know what those products are, but they've been commented on in the various forums.

Galling will always be a possibility with tight, stainless on stainless guns.

There are some cleaners out there that you're not supposed to use on the duty treat guns, because it can discolor or cloud the finish. It's really not that big of a deal. All the cleaning the DT finish needs can be accomplished with wiping the gun down with oil.

[M2CattleCo]

I'd go with a carbon steel 5" Colt.

Dan Wessons are nice indeed, but I'm a function over form guy and I can't pay for more than a Colt that still needs the barrel properly fit.

Pretty much everything I've seen between Colt and Wilson was just fancy. Not better.

A proper barrel fit times the gun and it's the heart of the machine. Precious few 1911s have properly fit barrels.

[MSparks909]

Pretty much everything I've seen between Colt and Wilson was just fancy. Not better.

Well, not sure what Wilson's you've handled but my Wilson's are fit head and shoulders better than my Colts. The thumb safety is sloppy and mushy on both of my Colts, the bushing fit on my M45A1 is laughable with visible slop on the barrel, the trigger fit isn't as precise, etc. I had to mess with the extractor tension on my CCU 9mm to get it running properly.

I have two Wilson's OTOH that have been flawless (as expected for the price) and everything fits together properly as it should. There is a *definite* difference in the quality and attention to detail between a rack grade Colt and a Wilson. A Dan Wesson is also executed to a higher standard than Colt. It just is.

[JTQ]

Galling will always be a possibility with tight, stainless on stainless guns.

That may be true.

pastaslinger wrote,
Galling is real and is just more likely because of the stainless steel, lots of talk about it on the Dan Wesson forum on 1911forum

I've been on 1911forum for several years and hadn't heard that. Admittedly, I spend almost no time on the Dan Wesson sub forum. However, I did go back and search for some of those comments in the Dan Wesson sub forum. They are there, but most are not from what I'd consider the more experienced members, though that doesn't mean it isn't a real thing.

On the other hand, if you search through the Ed Brown sub forum, you'll find some questions about galling, and Ed Brown makes a lot of stainless guns, and most would be considered fitted tighter than the Dan Wesson products, and most of the Ed Brown folks will deny there is an issue with galling with Ed Brown 1911's specifically, and modern stainless handguns in general.

I'll admit, I'm not a metallurgist, but my understanding is the early stainless auto loaders used the same alloy for both the frame and slide. This allowed galling to be a problem. My understanding is, since the 1980's, most manufacturers have used a different alloy for the frame and slide that has significantly limited galling to the point where it is practically nonexistent.

[TC215]

That may be true.

I've been on 1911forum for several years and hadn't heard that. Admittedly, I spend almost no time on the Dan Wesson sub forum. However, I did go back and search for some of those comments in the Dan Wesson sub forum. They are there, but most are not from what I'd consider the more experienced members, though that doesn't mean it isn't a real thing.

On the other hand, if you search through the Ed Brown sub forum, you'll find some questions about galling, and Ed Brown makes a lot of stainless guns, and most would be considered fitted tighter than the Dan Wesson products, and most of the Ed Brown folks will deny there is an issue with galling with Ed Brown 1911's specifically, and modern stainless handguns in general.

I'll admit, I'm not a metallurgist, but my understanding is the early stainless auto loaders used the same alloy for both the frame and slide. This allowed galling to be a problem. My understanding is, since the 1980's, most manufacturers have used a different alloy for the frame and slide that has significantly limited galling to the point where it is practically nonexistent.

It is true.

There were numerous complaints about galling on stainless DW's during the first half of 2015. Now, when it comes up, it seems as though it's from people not lubricating their guns early on.

The reason you don't hear about it in Ed Browns is because they shoot at least 50 rounds through their guns, and up to 200 (if a gun has problems) before they leave the factory. If a gun is going to gall, it's probably going to do it in the first magazine or two.

[M2CattleCo]

Well, not sure what Wilson's you've handled but my Wilson's are fit head and shoulders better than my Colts. The thumb safety is sloppy and mushy on both of my Colts, the bushing fit on my M45A1 is laughable with visible slop on the barrel, the trigger fit isn't as precise, etc. I had to mess with the extractor tension on my CCU 9mm to get it running properly.

I have two Wilson's OTOH that have been flawless (as expected for the price) and everything fits together properly as it should. There is a *definite* difference in the quality and attention to detail between a rack grade Colt and a Wilson. A Dan Wesson is also executed to a higher standard than Colt. It just is.

Yeah. What I meant is that Colt is a great pistol for the money, the next stop for me would be Wilson Combat since I don't consider anything in between to be functionally equal to a good Colt.

Some people demand a seamless beavertail fit. I don't even need a beavertail, but you better believe I'm checking ramp angle and depth, barrel bed, barrel spring, VIS, upper lug engagement, lower lug fit, things like that.

Colt does it sloppy, but they get it right more oft than not. Wilson Combat and Springfield Custom does it tight and they do it right as well.