Endurance Test

[poptopjr]

I'm in the market for my first autoloader and want a reliable gun.

A little background, I completed my concealed carry class submitted the app and eagerly await my permit. I should have it in a couple of weeks. In my class I shot a XD Tactical and I was very impressed. So, I embarked on internet research to support my opinion. What I found I didn't really like.

Keep in mind I don't have a whole lot of handgun experience, so if I pull the trigger and it goes bang, I'm impressed. When I found the M&P endurance test I was very impressed, 2 stoppages in more than 60k rounds. I read most of the test and Todd seemed fair and unbiased. When I found the forum I expected to read a lot more praise then I have. I'm reading about "early unlocking", like I know what that is. Firing pins breaking, like I need that problem.

So I started reading the latest endurance test. That leads me to believe that if I buy a Gen4 Glock I could have nothing but trouble. I don't have Todd's resources or experience. It seems like the gun is functioning reliably now, but if I bought one that didn't, would it get fixed and how much effort and frustration would it take? Most folks on the board still seem to have faith in Glock, but I'm not sure.

Is the P30 any more reliable than the M&P or the Gen4 Glock? I could save for an extra month and buy one, but I don't want to spend that much money on my first handgun if I don't have to. That $300 could by a lot of ammo, holster, even an annual membership to the local range. It sounds like a really nice gun, but do I need to spend that kind of money to get a reliable gun?

Primary use of my new gun will be practice. Which is why, after reading this board for a few days I have decided on 9mm instead of a .45. I will carry concealed, but not all the time and only after I have a bunch of rounds through the gun. I think IDPA would be fun and I might do that once I get comfortable with the gun, the local range has a match every month, so I'm told.

I can't find any place local to shoot these three guns and I don't have any friends that own them. I have held the M&P and the Glock and I actually really like the way the Glock feels. I have large hands and not much experience so the grip angle doesn't bother me, at least not in the store, but the big grip fits my hands well.

My goal is to shoot a couple thousand rounds every three or four months, I just want a gun that is going to work.

If you took the time to read through all of that, thank you. I have enjoyed reading the posts on this forum. It sounds like there is quite a collection of knowledge. I look forward to contributing in the future.

Hope everyone enjoys a safe Holiday.

Keith

[seabiscuit]

If you can find a Gen3 Glock, it will likely be totally reliable. Mine has been, working on a 2,000 round test right now.

There's a thread here where guys post results from 2,000 round tests - that'd be a good place to do more research.

[Comedian]

For overall reliability, go with an HK P30. The Walther PPQ is getting high marks so far. So that could be an option also.

[F-Trooper05]

My goal is to shoot a couple thousand rounds every three or four months, I just want a gun that is going to work.

As a die hard P30 fan, I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that a Gen3 Glock 19 is all you need. Buy used if you're worried about current production guns.


It seems like the gun is functioning reliably now, but if I bought one that didn't, would it get fixed and how much effort and frustration would it take?

As long as you have a punch set, access to Youtube, and an average IQ you can do just about anything that a certified Glock armorer can do.

[BCL]

I've personally owned Glocks, M&P's, (1) XD, and HK P30's. I don't like XD's because of the annoying grip safety, but like all of the others.

I eventually settled on Glocks because they are very easy to work on, I shoot them the best, and the mags/aftermarket/etc are inexpensive and readily available.

Nothing made by man is infallible, but if you go with either a gen3 Glock, a recent production M&P, or an HK P30, you will most likely get a dead nuts reliable gun.

IF something does go wrong, the Glock will be the easiest to work on yourself, while the HK will be the hardest.

Since you said you like the way the Glock feels in your hand, I would say get either a gen3 g17 or g19, buy some spare mags, lots of ammo, a good holster, and get some professional training.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[guymontag]

I view it a game of probability. One's experience may not mirror your own.

However I believe you have the top three choices available regarding reputation, aftermarket support, and customer service. Any of them should serve you well.

An excellent article from ToddG:

http://pistol-training.com/articles/trust-no-one-an-insiders-perspective

[poptopjr]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses and especially the article. I have spent a lot of time in the last couple of weeks on the two sites here and have come to respect Todd a great deal. Like everyone he probably has his bias's, but he doesn't seem to let them get in the way of reporting what he experiences. That article is exactly what I needed to hear.

Because feel in the show room is all I have to go with at this point, I will almost definitely end up with a Glock based on that article.

Thanks again for all the feedback.

Keith

[JonInWA]

Glock genuinely seems committed to working through and resolving the issues that have cropped up with the Gen4 (and later-production Gen 3) guns-and certainly not every late Gen 3/Gen4 gun produced is necessarily going to have any problems whatsoever. I think that you'd be fine with choosing one of them.

Best, Jon

[ToddG]

Glock genuinely seems committed to working through and resolving the issues that have cropped up with the Gen4 (and later-production Gen 3) guns...

That's a very generous way to say it, Jon. Austria denied there were any problems at all for almost a year, even to their own people in Georgia. While they replaced Ken Hackathorn's and my G19s without a word of argument, plenty of people with the same model suffering the same problems were told it was their grip, their ammo, the phase of the moon, etc. Only after a number of large European LE/mil agencies outed the problem publicly at IWA did Austria begin to believe it was something other than stupid Americans. We've seen how many different versions of the recoil spring since the gen4 was debuted less than two years ago? We're on a new ejector, a new extractor... You may see a company trying to fix a problem, but I see a company that isn't taking the time and effort necessary to get the fix right the first time.

Anyway... to the OP:

I think the P30 is the best gun on the market today. Having said that, mine came from the factory with an out of spec part that needed to be replaced. My M&P was great, but plenty I've seen since then have had issues (as did my personal M&P that cracked earlier, which is what got the whole 50k test thing going in the first place). Glocks are a toss up. And while I appreciate the idea of buying used, much like cars you can almost run into more trouble that way because often a like-new used gun is being sold for a reason, and that reason might be that it doesn't work properly.

Any of those three companies is likely to deliver you a gun that works well. Any of them could deliver something that needs effort and time to fix. Of the three, HK obviously has a far smaller percentage of guns reporting problems out of the box. It's also half again as expensive.

In the end, you're very likely not buying the last gun you'll ever own. Whatever you get, you'll shoot it for a while and then convince yourself that some other bright shiny object on the gunstore shelf is more better! That's natural and we all go through it. So don't make this decision as if you'll be locked in for the rest of your life. Get something you're pleased with and interested in. Shoot it. Learn about shooting. And in a year or five when you decide you want something different, you'll get that.

Again, it's a lot like a car. Some people buy a Chevy and then insist on being "Chevy people" the rest of their lives. Most folks, though, buy the car they think they'll like best today, and then the next time they go to buy a car they start the process all over again. Lifestyles change, needs change, wants change. Most of us don't get religious about our cars, why get religious about our guns?

[JonInWA]

Perhaps a better way to say it is that Glock finally seems dedicated to correcting the issues/problematic Gen4 (and late production Gen 3) guns...And then there's the M&P, which seems to relentlessly garner glowing reviews, until one operationally crippling issue after another seems to continue to roll in...

I agree with your summation, Todd. I also wouldn't rule out a current production Beretta 92 series gun. And while I'll probably be burned at the stake for saying so, I've been exceptionally pleased with my very late production 2007 vintage Ruger P89-which is arguably irrelevant, since they were discontinued in 2007. SIG-Sauer's 2022 also seems to be quietly doing well; I haven't seen or heard of any complaints of significance for some time regarding them (as opposed to some of the other SIG-Sauer handguns...)

Best, Jon

[Comedian]

Great post Todd.

[poptopjr]

Comedian
"Great post Todd."

It helped put my upcoming purchase into perspective. I still don't know what i'm going to buy, but no doubt it won't be the last gun I buy. I'm not a fan of buying used, it saves a little money, but i'm never sure of what i'm getting so, at least until I have more experience with handgun's I will buy new.

As far as the M&P goes, I like the gun, and would love to "buy American", but I really don't like the trigger, I'm not talking about how it feels, I don't like the pivot point in the center. As far as I've seen from the endurance test it will last, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

If I can find a dealer that is willing to break the gun apart and show me the numbers on the assemblies of the Gloock I will probably buy either a G17 or G19. If I can't find a dealer that will work with me and provide the service I want, I will end up with the P30. The Beretta is an interesting idea, and that is what I was issued in the Marine Corps, but something about the three 9mm's of the different endurance tests has me enamored.

Thanks for all the replies. I will keep y'all updated as to my purchase. My first challenge will be to see how quickly I can perform the "2000 round" challenge.

Hope everybody had a Merry Christmas and enjoyed the holidays in general. Back to work I go.

Keith