Best non-1911 Trigger You've Ever Felt?

[F-Trooper05]

All this talk about the Haley trigger has peeked my curiosity. What's the best non-1911 trigger you've ever felt? What gun was it? What was so spectacular about it? Who did it belong to? What mods were done, if any?

[JDM]

PPQ. Stock.

[GJM]

What's the best non-1911 trigger you've ever felt?

Define best?

[jlw]

I've felt plenty of triggers that were better than 1911 triggers. I understand fully why so many shooters like the 1911's trigger, but it isn't my preference. I do concede that if I adopted a 1911-only approach that I would get accustomed to it.

It's hard to argue against one of the custom CZ pistols from CZ Custom, but I am a fan of the following in no particular order: a well worn Glock OEM trigger, the kits from GlockTriggers.com, and the M&P trigger with Apex parts. I'm pretty simple though. I should also give a big thumbs up for a trigger job from Pinnacle on a S&W 66 that I once tried.

*** I have not tried the Skimmer. I don't know Mr. Haley. I am friends with the owner of GlockTriggers.com and proudly shoot his product in several pistols.

[Wes Peart]

S&W 952. Probably 2.5-3lbs glass rod break. Ought be for around 2 grand. Next in line would probably be the PPQ.

[JDM]

The single action break on a P99 is pretty damn impressive too.

[nwhpfan]

M&P 45 with some Apex parts and a little polish.

[JAD]

S&W 41, word life. Of the pivoting triggers I like a P7 -- clean take-up and a resonant break. I try not to talk about p7s for fear I'll run out and buy one.

[JHC]

PPQ. Stock.

Yeah that's the first thing that comes to mind. I've also handled several Sig pistols whose SA triggers felt pretty decent. For a smooth DA pull, IMO the Kahrs are nice but too long a pull. My fingers are long and it feels to me like I'm pulling PAST my palm. That econ grade with sketchy reliability reports the Diamondback DB9 has a pretty freakin nice DA pull from my gun store handling. Smooth and a shorter total travel than a Kahr.

[JonInWA]

SIG P210-6.

Best, Jon

[1slow]

High Standard Victor .22, Volquartson Ruger .22 auto pistol.

[1986s4]

My Pre-B CZ 75, converted to SA only by Angus Hobdell about 7 years ago.

[lcarr]

All this talk about the Haley trigger has peeked my curiosity. What's the best non-1911 trigger you've ever felt? What gun was it? What was so spectacular about it? Who did it belong to? What mods were done, if any?

S&W revolvers, at least the larger frames that use leaf springs, are amenable to having excellent triggers. My favorite of my guns is a 625-10 that had a trigger job done by Evolution Gun Works, when they were still doing gunsmithing. Both the DA and SA pulls are outstanding. The SA trigger is better than the vast majority of 1911s: very light, no take-up, and no overtravel.

I once dry fired, DA, an S&W revolver that had been done by Clark's. It was the best DA trigger I've ever felt.

CZ-style guns with SA-only triggers can equal a 1911. I got to handle one of Eric Grauffel's competition guns. Its trigger, while not better than a 1911, was just as good as a 1911.

SIGs can have very good SA triggers. I had an early P229 that was great straight out of the box, though its DA trigger was too heavy.

On long guns, a lot of work has been done on custom AR triggers. I have a Jewell 2-stage, done by Fulton Armory, that is very good. For fast shooting, I might prefer a single stage JP trigger. I expect that the ATC Gold triggers are excellent, though I haven't had a chance to try one personally.

Lincoln

[Joe in PNG]

When it comes to "great for targets, NOT for carry", my ancient High Standard Duramatic 101 would be there- I've not put a scale on it, but doubt I even get a whole pound of pull from it.

[VolGrad]

I've shot lots of different styles & brands of pistols.

Admittedly though, I'm a GLOCK & 1911 guy.

The best non-1911 triggers I've felt ....

..... a couple of of my really worn in carry GLOCKs (a 19 & a 17). Both are wearing Ghost Ranger 4.5# connectors with everything else internal pretty much stock. I have changed the external controls on both to LAV parts and both have had grip work done by Boresight Solutions.

..... my primary IDPA GLOCK 17 with a Vogel Challenger kit from www.GlockTriggers.com . This one just sped up the process to get the smooth feel of my worn in carry guns. It also removed the over-travel. Pre-travel is the same as stock.

Since the Chief disclaimed stuff ... I too am friends with Jeff from www.GlockTriggers.com but only after first being a customer. I am not an employee nor am I a paid endorser. I recommend his kits to everyone I can just the same as I recommend training from Todd Green ... after having trained with him.

[TGS]

Hmmm.

Out of any handgun? Colt Python.

If you want to break it down to different types of guns, for SFA auto's I'd say the PPQ and P7 are about the same, and for a hammer gun I'd say SIG's DA/SA is the best.

Maybe my opinion will change when I get my P2000 back from GGI this week...

[seabiscuit]

Not a handgun, but the Walther single-shot target .22 I used to shoot in NRA smallbore had a perfect trigger. Just enough takeup to feel it, and a very discernable and very smooth breaking wall.

The trigger was actually a metal rod with a fully adjustable pad screwed on it. I want to buy one of those rifles, just for the trigger.

[cclaxton]

Anybody who has ever tried the trigger on my Cz Pre-B 9mm Shadow from Cz Custom shop has said it is one of the best triggers. (No firing pin block, custom hammer, combat trigger). The only one that might beat it out is the EAA Witness or a customized 1911, or a SA-only Cz, but not by much. I have tried the Walther PPQ and P99 and they are VERY CLOSE.

CC

[gtmtnbiker98]

My PPQ has the best stock trigger that I have felt.

[digiadaamore]

PPQ. Stock.

now that ive seen a few more ppq votes here i think we should start an owners club

[TGS]

now that ive seen a few more ppq votes here i think we should start an owners club

Or at least convince ToddG to give up his Glock 17 and run a PPQ. Walther's P99/PPQ family has never really been in the spotlight besides the SW99/NJSP fiasco that a lot of people harp on, so it'd be cool to see some hard use and solid data to put the PPQ in its place. The PPQ deserves it.

[agent-smith]

Tie: Anschutz 54 and Feinwerkbau 700.

(Yeah, the Feinwerkbau 700 is an air rifle)

[GJM]

Everyone gushes about the trigger on the PPQ, but I am interested in what times on known drills folks are getting with the PPQ versus a Glock or M&P? Do people like trigger because it feels more 1911 like or because they shoot faster and better with it?

[ToddG]

Everyone gushes about the trigger on the PPQ, but I am interested in what times on known drills folks are getting with the PPQ versus a Glock or M&P? Do people like trigger because it feels more 1911 like or because they shoot faster and better with it?

Exactly. When I see someone I consider an excellent shooter praising the PPQ, I'll give it a more serious look. Until then, based on my limited handling, I'm gushless.

[EVP]

The best trigger I have used was a S&W 686-4 with a 4 in barrel that had an action job by S&W. It had a nice smooth pull and the single action was amazing. It was my first handgun and I learned how to start shooting with it. Ill always have a soft spot in my heart for revolvers.

[JDM]

Everyone gushes about the trigger on the PPQ, but I am interested in what times on known drills folks are getting with the PPQ versus a Glock or M&P? Do people like trigger because it feels more 1911 like or because they shoot faster and better with it?

I like the trigger because it feels nice, in the gun shop when I'm finger banging the gun.

I'm not a good enough shooter with any platform to worry about the (potentail) incremental gains I'd see with a trigger that feels better when evaluated in the most un scientific way possible.

I like to entertain the idea that I'd shoot better with it, but the very real negatives associated with the "musical platform" game far outweigh the potential gains the PPQ may provide me with.

Nice trigger though. :p

[TGS]

Exactly. When I see someone I consider an excellent shooter praising the PPQ, I'll give it a more serious look. Until then, based on my limited handling, I'm gushless.

gtmtnbiker is someone I would consider an excellent shooter....and he seems quite smitten with it so far.

I don't see how it having an awesome trigger means the gun doesn't deserve a look. Even if you shoot the same with the PPQ as a Glock or M&P, who cares? If it costs the same as it's competitors, but has a nicer trigger, that makes it unworthy of consideration? I mean, it's from a well-respected manufacturer, not Kel-Tec or some obscure company.

For those of us that still feel emotion and pleasure, there's nothing wrong with a nice trigger on a gun that does everything else equally well as its competitors. If I can get a functional hammer for $15, but a pleasing and functional hammer for $15, why not take a look at the one that is both pleasing and functional?

[digiadaamore]

its trigger was good enough to get me to finally put down my beretta, ive never felt there was enough benefit in a striker til the walther

[GJM]

gtmtnbiker is someone I would consider an excellent shooter....and he seems quite smitten with it so far.
l?

And, I would like shooters such as him say whether they shoot it measurably better than a Glock or M&P. I specifically asked elsewhere about split times with the PPQ, and was told split times don't mean anything on a fighting pistol, making me wonder if they were slower. Other reviews discuss how they were unable to shoot a Glock, but gush about the PPQ -- and therefore mean nothing to me as I love a Glock trigger.

[TGS]

And, I would like shooters such as him say whether they shoot it measurably better than a Glock or M&P. I specifically asked elsewhere about split times with the PPQ, and was told split times don't mean anything on a fighting pistol, making me wonder if they were slower. Other reviews discuss how they were unable to shoot a Glock, but gush about the PPQ -- and therefore mean nothing to me as I love a Glock trigger.

Why does it have to shoot better than a Glock or M&P to be considered? It being just as good in all other categories (supposedly, it'd be cool to see it put through its paces), but with a nice trigger that is just that.....nice....isn't good enough for consideration?

[ToddG]

I specifically asked elsewhere about split times with the PPQ, and was told split times don't mean anything on a fighting pistol, making me wonder if they were slower.

Someone who doesn't measure actual shooting performance gets zero respect from me when reviewing a gun. Nine times out of ten, it's being reviewed by someone who lacks the understanding and skill to assess actual mechanical performance to begin with. That's the kind of crap you hear from guys selling guns instead of shooting them seriously. If I can't shoot it better and it otherwise gives me no benefit over what I've already got, why bother?


Why does it have to shoot better than a Glock or M&P to be considered? It being just as good in all other categories (supposedly, it'd be cool to see it put through its paces), but with a nice trigger that is just that.....nice....isn't good enough for consideration?

TGS, I understand where you're coming from but "nice" isn't something that factors into my analysis of a trigger or anything else about a gun. If it feels nice but shoots worse, it's a poor compromise. If it feels nice but shoots the same, it doesn't matter. There may be folks who sit around dry firing their gun to appreciate the way the trigger feels, but I'm not one of them.

Having said that, my dislike of the PPQ isn't merely a matter of "it's not better." I am not fond of the trigger from a safety standpoint (especially as someone who carries AIWB) and I found the mag release very stiff and sharp. Both Tom Jones and I played with one at SHOT this past January and found the mag release far inferior to the P30. YMMV, of course.

[JV_]

and found the mag release far inferior to the P30.FredM and I played with one at Virginia Arms. My first comment to him was: The P30 has a much better mag release.

[CK1]

CZ Shadow, especially one with a CZCustom competition hammer installed.

It's interesting to read all this gushing about the PPQ's trigger, it's ok alright (especially for stock striker-fired gun), but next to a Shadow's it's pretty underwhelming IMHO.

It's not just a feel thing for me either, the clock shows me that I can go much faster and at the same time shoot more accurately with the nicer trigger, I'm longing/hoping for the day when CZ figures out that the Shadow's trigger in a alloy or poly-framed carry-size gun will be a winner.

[TGS]

TGS, I understand where you're coming from but "nice" isn't something that factors into my analysis of a trigger or anything else about a gun. If it feels nice but shoots worse, it's a poor compromise. If it feels nice but shoots the same, it doesn't matter. There may be folks who sit around dry firing their gun to appreciate the way the trigger feels, but I'm not one of them.

Having said that, my dislike of the PPQ isn't merely a matter of "it's not better." I am not fond of the trigger from a safety standpoint (especially as someone who carries AIWB) and I found the mag release very stiff and sharp. Both Tom Jones and I played with one at SHOT this past January and found the mag release far inferior to the P30. YMMV, of course.

Gotcha, thanks for the explanation. I had also decided the first time I played with one that the trigger isn't suitable for carry. If they had built in some travel for the first shot similar to an LEM, then I think it'd be good. I think they should have kept the striker indicator as well, since it showed trigger movement.

[JV_]

Tangfoglio/EAA Limited with Hennings and other EGW parts (straight trigger) ... it was very smooth and had a nice crisp break with no over travel. I shot it really well.

[Comedian]

I like Glock trigger's in a combat pistol, but the best "feeling" trigger for me was a stock DA/SA in a Sig P229 E2. The pull, even in DA was smooth as butter, with a very small reset, due to its SRT component's. It was very nice for a stock trigger.

[Tamara]

Not a handgun, but the Walther single-shot target .22 I used to shoot in NRA smallbore had a perfect trigger. Just enough takeup to feel it, and a very discernable and very smooth breaking wall.

The trigger was actually a metal rod with a fully adjustable pad screwed on it. I want to buy one of those rifles, just for the trigger.

This.

Best trigger? Best trigger for what? I've got a custom Mauser upstairs with a sweet trigger on it that is practically thought-controlled. It would be useless on, not only a CCW pistol, but even on an action pistol gamer gun. I don't care how phenomenal your trigger-finger control is, if that were a self-loader, you'd be flinging rounds over the berm in two- and three-round bursts.

Having the trigger finger control of a klutz, one of the reasons I ditched my 1911s for the M&P was that the trigger on, say, my SA Pro was too good (too light, not enough takeup) for me to shoot well on the move. The very same things that make the pistol so easy for me to shoot in a static, slow-fire situation against a stationary target weren't helping me when things are more dynamic.

[ToddG]

Along similar lines... the original hand made prototype for the SIG "SRT" short reset mechanism was so short that it would double when dry firing[. It wasn't in adequate sear engagement or anything like that. But the mechanism reset in such a tiny distance that if you racked the slide vigorously with the trigger pulled back, there was enough space by the natural compression of your finger pad's skin to reset. And in typical fashion, while everyone else looked on it as funny-but-dangerous, one of the dipsticks on our so-called "pistol team" insisted that he could not only control the trigger adequately but that with it set up that way he could win any match. ;)

[Tamara]

I find the mention of factory CZ single-action triggers odd, considering that the -75 has such a positive sear engagement angle that you can see the hammer move backwards as you pull the trigger...

[John Ralston]

The best trigger I have used was a S&W 686-4 with a 4 in barrel that had an action job by S&W. It had a nice smooth pull and the single action was amazing. It was my first handgun and I learned how to start shooting with it. Ill always have a soft spot in my heart for revolvers.

+1

Older S&W's, even without a trigger job, had amazing triggers. My dad has a Model 27 that has an incredible DA Trigger, and the SA will blow your mind. You just have to think about pulling it and it breaks.

[DocGKR]

Assuming we are discussing triggers for handguns intended for CCW/duty/combat purposes, thus we are assessing the trigger feel for the first shot out of the holster, I'd say I prefer the 1911, followed by the M&P w/Apex parts, then the Glock w/3.5 lbs connector and stock trigger return spring.

[rsa-otc]

I have been shooting revolvers for so long that I have a sweet spot for the DA pull on an S&W revolver. My father had a Mdl-14 Target Masterpiece that Austin Berlert did the action on. It was his patented S&W action done in the late 70's that was like no other I have ever handled. DA & SA where the cats meow, I won 2 state Championships with that gun. Beat my fathers Colt Gold Cup any day.

[Robert Mitchum]

PPQ and SIG SAUER P210
A good friend just got 2 PPQ's 9 & 40 triggers are very good and they feel great in the hands.

[Packy]

G19 3rd Gen that had been dry fired many times and shot many times (2 years duration)
But the best is a CZ SPO1 shadow stock.. after 4ooo reps of dryfire and 1000 rounds of shooting it. The Zed.

[CQC.45]

Kind of a broad question. I could cock a DA/SA in SA and could rattle off a few pistols which had good SA pulls, but the DA sucked. Regarding striker-fired, my Bowie Tactical M&P is by far the best i have felt. However, like someone else said, it depends on what you define as "best".

[GJM]

Assuming we are discussing triggers for handguns intended for CCW/duty/combat purposes, thus we are assessing the trigger feel for the first shot out of the holster, I'd say I prefer the 1911, followed by the M&P w/Apex parts, then the Glock w/3.5 lbs connector and stock trigger return spring.

I am curious about your definition of "first shot out of the holster"? Was that just a manner of speaking, or do you specifically mean for first shot out of the holster as opposed to successive shots?

While there isn't much better for a difficult shot than a an accurate 1911 with a great trigger, or for shooting slow fire groups, I like the M&P with DCAEK trigger or a stock Glock trigger with a - connector more than a 1911 trigger for working the trigger between shots, shooting with one hand, and generally shooting the kind of drills described here at PF.

[farscott]

Best trigger on any gun that is not a 1911 was the one on my S&W 952-2. Best trigger on a carry gun was on my pair of Robar NP3-finished P7M8s. Unfortunately, the P7 has issues that make it unacceptable to me as a carry gun, namely parts availability. One of my guns was down for months until H&K decided to sell me parts.

On my current carry guns, the best triggers are on an old 2nd Generation G17 with all stock internals other than a Ghost "-" connector and on my stock 1989-vintage (I bought it a few months after graduating from college) G17.

[DocGKR]

GJM--Along the same line as CQC.45 referenced above, I specifically mean for the first shot out of the holster as opposed to successive shots (ie. not a DA gun cocked to SA).