New chap on the range

[Chuteur]

Hi. I live in the DFW area at the moment. I have been shooting for a fair few years with British military and police experience.

I have attended a few courses here in the USA. By far my bestest and most favouritist course attended is the one at Bill Rogers place where I have displayed my comparative ineptitude and need for learning on more than one course.

I am a fan of 9mm, love my Glocks.......although I am coveting a VP9, I used to like my MP5 that the Queen supplied so I should like the VP9, I also like BBQ,.......maybe that is why I landed in Texas.

Cheers Gents.

[Kyle Reese]

Welcome to the forum! We're very pleased to have you aboard. :)

On the VP9, I purchased mine on a lark, and love it.

[Rex G]

Hi-Hola, and welcome to the forum, and to Texas! ("Hola" is a Spanish term, equivalent to "hello." The "h" is silent.)

The DFW area is one of the USA's meccas for good training.

:)

[Crusader8207]

Welcome to the fray.

[HCountyGuy]

Welcome to the forums, as well as the right side of the pond!

You certainly won't be disappointed if you get that VP9.

Someone here should be able to steer you towards more good schools in your AO.

Just keep up some regular practice, perhaps start a training journal (https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?48-Training-Journals), and you'll see some significant results.

[blues]

Welcome aboard. I hope you'll find the hospitality here as good as what I received when I had the opportunity to work (and pub crawl) with the Met and "Church" in London a few years back. You may not get bangers and mash the way you like but the food in TX should be a fulfillng experience.

[voodoo_man]

Welcome.

TX is a good place and you are fortunate to be close to a dense cluster of PF members.

[hufnagel]

P30 is better than VP9. Hammer fired is better than striker fired.

Oh, and welcome to the forum! :D

[1slow]

Welcome, glad to have you !

[SecondsCount]

Welcome. The VP9 is a nice pistol.

[Chuteur]

P30 is better than VP9. Hammer fired is better than striker fired.

Oh, and welcome to the forum! :D

A story on that: 1984, maybe 1985, I am attending the Covert Operational Procurement Exhibition (COPEX) in London, England. Team, and me, are wandering around looking at all the expensive grown-ups toy's, prodding, pokeing and trying to get freebie's.....as you do. I arrive at one booth and all this guy has is a wooden trestle table covered with a piece of cloth. There are two neat stacks of brochures, one at each corner nearest the aisle, and smack in the middle of the table is a small, black, plastic lunch-box with a plastic toy pistol laid on top.

We gather around the table, invite the chap to tell us about the 'toy' and listen politely to his spiel. The 'toy' is passed around, hefted, sighted and appraised. My famous words upon handing the pistol back to the bloke were, "plastic mate, nice idea, but it'll never catch on".

Oh was I wrong, so, so wrong. I now have a half dozen and love them.

[Chance]

Hi. I live in the DFW area at the moment. I have been shooting for a fair few years with British military and police experience.

I too live in the D/FW area, and am greatly amused by British "humuor." If you're prepared to admit that you've lost the right to spell things correctly because your "lot" couldn't finish the war on your own, perhaps we could arrange a "range day." (How do you spell "range day" in British? They fuck it up somehow, right?)

[David S.]

Welcome to the D/FW chapter of P-F.

[Mr_White]

Welcome, Chuteur!

[SeriousStudent]

Welcome to the D/FW chapter of P-F.

Come for the training. Stay for the BBQ.

Oh, and some of us do like whisky, and even spell it correctly.

[Arbninftry]

We will take you, we want more like you, shoot, live, and be free. Oh, learn to be Texan, you will need a BBQ gun.
:cool:

[RJ]

Warm welcome from me as well. A Brit, eh? I lived in Pompey Hants for five years on an assignment supporting a RN contract. Had a great time.

Watch out for these Dallas/Fort Worth dudes; they will take you to the range, then you'll have to go eat tasty burned critter. :cool:

Kidding, of course. Great to have you aboard the best firearm discussion forum on the 'net.

[SeriousStudent]

......

Watch out for these Dallas/Fort Worth dudes; they will take you to the range, then you'll have to go eat tasty burned critter. :cool:

.....

Ah, the sacrifices one makes for art's sake.

[Chuteur]

I too live in the D/FW area, and am greatly amused by British "humuor." If you're prepared to admit that you've lost the right to spell things correctly because your "lot" couldn't finish the war on your own, perhaps we could arrange a "range day." (How do you spell "range day" in British? They fuck it up somehow, right?)

I admit to nothing. ;-)

[Buckshot]

Welcome to the neighborhood!

[Clobbersaurus]

Welcome aboard!

[Kanati]

Hi. I live in the DFW area at the moment. I have been shooting for a fair few years with British military and police experience.

I have attended a few courses here in the USA. By far my bestest and most favouritist course attended is the one at Bill Rogers place where I have displayed my comparative ineptitude and need for learning on more than one course.

I am a fan of 9mm, love my Glocks.......although I am coveting a VP9, I used to like my MP5 that the Queen supplied so I should like the VP9, I also like BBQ,.......maybe that is why I landed in Texas.

Cheers Gents.

Welcome!!

Had the pleasure of living in Harrogate for a few years back in the day. Ahhhhh, North Yorkshire......gale force wind is a breeze, and summers that last almost an entire afternoon on a Thursday in August.....

[Robinson]

Welcome! I'll never forget the time in England when a chap asked me if I wanted a fag. I'm pretty sure it was a setup, like "let's see this yank's reaction". wankers...

[DallasBronco]

Welcome to North Texas and the forum!

[Chuteur]

Welcome!!

Had the pleasure of living in Harrogate for a few years back in the day. Ahhhhh, North Yorkshire......gale force wind is a breeze, and summers that last almost an entire afternoon on a Thursday in August.....

Ahhh, reet lad. I would hope that your summer's afternoon was liberally interspersed with rain......or, liquid sunshine, as we call it.

As for Harrogate, I would assume you were at the golf balls, I used to do runs around the reservoir with some of the security team from there.

[Chuteur]

Welcome! I'll never forget the time in England when a chap asked me if I wanted a fag. I'm pretty sure it was a setup, like "let's see this yank's reaction". wankers...

I once met a chap in Florida who thought the term wanker was a compliment, the Australians and myself never did get around to correcting him.

It is a marvellous word to use to get rid of stress.......especially when those around you don't know. I have noticed it popping up more frequently on TV programmes over here where Brit actors are hired.........they would not get away with it in the UK.

[11B10]

Chuteur, a most unusual moniker, eh? A most warm welcome to pistol-forum! I don't know if this is your first gun forum, but I'd wager it'll be the best one you'll find - and - the only one you'll need.

[Kanati]

Ahhh, reet lad. I would hope that your summer's afternoon was liberally interspersed with rain......or, liquid sunshine, as we call it.

As for Harrogate, I would assume you were at the golf balls, I used to do runs around the reservoir with some of the security team from there.

Golf balls? Whatever could you be talking about......

[45dotACP]

Welcome to p-f! They're a smart bunch here. If you've got any questions about shooting they'll bury you in good advice!

[Chance]

Ahhh, reet lad. I would hope that your summer's afternoon was liberally interspersed with rain......or, liquid sunshine, as we call it.

There you go with that weird pronunciation shit. In Texas, "liquid sunshine" is pronounced, "humidity," which I assume your kind spells, "houmidity," but I'll leave that alone for the moment. There is a lot of houmidity, pretty much all the time. And also: heat. Heat and houmidity.

[WobblyPossum]

Welcome aboard. I'd love to hear about what policing is like in the UK if you're up to sharing a story or two.


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[blues]

Welcome aboard. I'd love to hear about what policing is like in the UK if you're up to sharing a story or two.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Police-Victorian-1256.jpg

"...Roit, 'avin' a wank are we? Move along before ye end up in the Old Bailey!"



;)

[Dismas316]

Welcome to DFW. You should check this out if you're able. Would be a great way to immerse yourself into our fine state and get some top notch training. We'd know how you are right away, you'd be the guy with the funny accent. :)

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25197-HiTS-First-Responder-Pistol-Dallas-May-20-21-2017

[Chuteur]

Chuteur, a most unusual moniker, eh? A most warm welcome to pistol-forum! I don't know if this is your first gun forum, but I'd wager it'll be the best one you'll find - and - the only one you'll need.

Chuteur: From the French. Taking one way plane rides and enjoying the view on the way down. Not so much nowadays, but sometimes when in the company of old friends......you only live once and it's not a practice run for the real thing. Met Chris Costa over at Deland, Florida, when he was jumping.

[11B10]

Chuteur: From the French. Taking one way plane rides and enjoying the view on the way down. Not so much nowadays, but sometimes when in the company of old friends......you only live once and it's not a practice run for the real thing. Met Chris Costa over at Deland, Florida, when he was jumping.


Ah yes, French - knew it! You do realize I'm sure, that there really is no good reason to leave an aircraft that's flying just fine, yes?

[Chuteur]

Welcome aboard. I'd love to hear about what policing is like in the UK if you're up to sharing a story or two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Okee dokee. I will deal with the main one I get thrust at me: "You British police don't carry guns"!

I invite you to try an armed robbery, or other armed offence in the UK and then start your stopwatch to see what happens and how quickly.

Back in the 70's the concept of armed officers was still a bit basic on the tactical side; .38 special snubby's, Browning Hi-Powers, side by side shotguns and scoped hunting rifles. There were some plainclothes officers who carried pistols as a matter of course, but that is all I can say about them as they had very special duties, or tasking.

edit to add: We were already sending blokes over to do the FBI shooting course and vehicle takedowns back in the 70's.

There were plenty of guns around as the UK was already involved in it's own internal security issues with the IRA, also the spillover from various middle eastern issues involving the PLO/PLFP and Carlos the Jackal. The Jackal and the PLO/PLFP issues happened mainly in Paris and other euro cities, but sometimes there would be spillover into London. As it was British coppering guns were to be rapidly available but kept out of sight. One method was to have uniform trousers altered with a large deep pocket so that a holster could be hung off a belt into the pocket with the merest hint of pistol butt showing. I remember rolling up at Heathrow airport police station for a stopover and dropping into the canteen for lunch and I was astounded at the firepower laying on the dining tables.

Since then it has evolved a long way with some very professional teams knocking around the various police forces in the UK. There are varying levels and it changes so I am probably not up to date:

1. Full on teams = to fulltime SWAT,
2. Armed Response Vehicle (ARV) crews = roving patrols who will deal with occurrences requiring armed response from taser upto G36/MP5 and flashbangs. These I have seen in two categories dependant on the operational method of their force. They can either be members of group 1, above, or are a category below them and will contain a situation and call upon group 1 if needed.
3. Firearms trained officers = will be armed if and when general non-specialist firearms support is required.

The normal patrol routine is that there will be 3 patrol vehicles, 2 of which cover designated patrol areas. The third vehicle (ARV) contains a crew from group 2, above. Each time a patrol is despatched to a job it is joined by the ARV until it is clear that no armed response is required and then the ARV will go back to roving patrol - normally on the motorway (highway patrol). So everyone has cover until it is apparent it is not needed.

The major cities are different, huge discreet presence. London has various teams knocking around the place from ARV's, to the diplomatic security officers around the embassy and government buildings, SO19/CO19 doing the hyper SWAT thing, the armed river police on the Thames who look like SEAL's....and might just get some cross-training with them, most recently the newest sexy unit in London is the Counter Terrorist Specialist Firearms Officers (CTSFO) they are the cool looking dudes who wear the grey Arc'xyz gear, drive the grey vehicles and ride the grey BMW F800GS rapid response motorcycles. CTSFO are a dedicated CT unit and respond to any CT events where bangsticks are required, they along with SO19/CO19 are trained by and receive ongoing training from the SAS....a bit like a SWAT team being trained by DELTA. The ones in London I like the most, and would have tried to go to (I emphasis TRIED because they are picky and you need to be good) is the Special Escort Group. These blokes are the best of the best when it comes to police motorcycling - I have seen motorcycling around the planet and no one touches these blokes - they are the armed escort detail for VIP's, and sensitive material movements. They are armed, ride specially modded bikes with no sirens and use whistles to control traffic..........believe me when I tell you that a thunderer whistle has more effect on traffic, in traffic than a nee nah siren does - try it sometime, I have one around my neck when cycling and intimidate SUV's at all way stop junctions with it.

I could go on, but I can't without giving away operational methods. But, as you can see, the UK Bobby is not as unarmed as he might appear.

[WobblyPossum]

Thank you very much for that explanation. Im always interested in learning about how other jurisdictions do the job.


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[LostDuke]

Welcome to Texas, don't forget to visit Austin and the hill country, quite a remarkable area.

[Chuteur]

Thank you very much for that explanation. Im always interested in learning about how other jurisdictions do the job.


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You also need to remember that in the UK firearms are the last resort. It is a measured response, if it is an armed incident then armed officers are despatched to deal with the situation. Fire any shots and the post-incident legal carnival makes a grand jury look like a coffee break.

First course of action with any incident is to communicate with those involved. A lot of time is put into teaching officers the need to communicate effectively and how to communicate effectively - if I saw an armed officer approaching or communicating with a member of the public with his hand on the butt of a pistol and flexing the pistol in the holster he would be explaining to his boss why he should continue in role. Your first line of interaction and defence is to verbally communicate with the public, not order them, communicate, explain what is going to happen and why it is going to happen, talk them through it whilst it is happening and then when it is done summarise what has happened and why. The UK Bobby does foot patrols, walks the beat, talks to people in their area and gets to know what is happening.

Sunglasses: A personal pet hate of mine when in uniform except for driving, it is also contrary to the standing orders and dress code of all police forces UNLESS there is a medical certificate to state that they are medically required. The eye's tell the story, they are the method by which we make contact and express our feelings from trust to hate. As officers we don't like talking to people who are wearing shades, so why should the officer wear shades......what was the Paul Newman film, the one with the walking boss who wore the mirrored shades, "Shaking the bush boss, shaking the bush".

Chewing gum: On duty gum will not be chewed. Full stop.

Meal discounts: You better be ready for a chat with IA.

Thats not to say we don't have fun, different strokes for different folks.

[11B10]

You also need to remember that in the UK firearms are the last resort. It is a measured response, if it is an armed incident then armed officers are despatched to deal with the situation. Fire any shots and the post-incident legal carnival makes a grand jury look like a coffee break.

First course of action with any incident is to communicate with those involved. A lot of time is put into teaching officers the need to communicate effectively and how to communicate effectively - if I saw an armed officer approaching or communicating with a member of the public with his hand on the butt of a pistol and flexing the pistol in the holster he would be explaining to his boss why he should continue in role. Your first line of interaction and defence is to verbally communicate with the public, not order them, communicate, explain what is going to happen and why it is going to happen, talk them through it whilst it is happening and then when it is done summarise what has happened and why. The UK Bobby does foot patrols, walks the beat, talks to people in their area and gets to know what is happening.

Sunglasses: A personal pet hate of mine when in uniform except for driving, it is also contrary to the standing orders and dress code of all police forces UNLESS there is a medical certificate to state that they are medically required. The eye's tell the story, they are the method by which we make contact and express our feelings from trust to hate. As officers we don't like talking to people who are wearing shades, so why should the officer wear shades......what was the Paul Newman film, the one with the walking boss who wore the mirrored shades, "Shaking the bush boss, shaking the bush".

Chewing gum: On duty gum will not be chewed. Full stop.

Meal discounts: You better be ready for a chat with IA.

Thats not to say we don't have fun, different strokes for different folks.




I'm all in, learning, please continue. What really resonated here ^^^, was the "eyes telling the story." It would seem those who wear them all the time - have no story to tell. The movie was "Cool Hand Luke."

[Chuteur]

I'm all in, learning, please continue. What really resonated here ^^^, was the "eyes telling the story." It would seem those who wear them all the time - have no story to tell. The movie was "Cool Hand Luke."

Thats the one, Cool Hand Luke. I liked the egg eating competition.

I am trying to dig up some official'ish documentation on police firearms training and deployment in the UK, a tad difficult as curriculums have been declared as classified nowadays. Presumably to prevent the 'bad men' from developing their own tactics as a counter to police tactics.

Anyway, The UK has around 54 or 55 police forces mostly based on the existing counties with a few like the Metropolitan Police of London exclusively policing a major city. All policing in the UK is subject to nationally developed and approved standards. That starts with initial officer training at what is effectively a govt run training centre, to the testing and approval of helicopters, vehicles and motorcycles through to the development and approval of a national firearms training curriculum. In effect; an officer in London is fully interchangeable with an officer in Manchester.

Some of the forces have become subject matter experts and/or developed training facilities for specialisms such as driving and firearms. They then run courses and provide training on a paying basis to other forces - sometimes a few forces will jointly fund a specialist training facility and all provide training staff to man the centre and have an agreement as to the number of personnel who may attend annually at zero cost with extra attendee's needing to be paid for. One such Force run training centre is owned and managed by the Cleveland & Durham Police. If you look at the gallery page you will get a clear idea of the in extremis capability of UK's modern Bobby.

http://www.tacticaltrainingcentre.com/

[blues]

My friend and former colleague from the Met supervised the anti-terror squad, some of whom I had the opportunity to meet and work with when I was over in 2002 on a matter. A fine bunch of lads and not to be trifled with. I miss them regularly.

On 9/11 the very first email I received was from that friend and colleague assuring me that they all stood with us. It was a source of great pride and a bond I have always cherished.

[cjb1911]

Is anyone else reading this entire thread in their head with a brit accent?

[Chuteur]

Is anyone else reading this entire thread in their head with a brit accent?

If there was a funny button as well as a like button I'd give you a funny,............old chap;)

I already get ethnic abuse from the RO's at my range.

[Chance]

I'll admit to being disappointed British policing is not as it is depicted in Reno 911! (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/fhm2qb/reno-911--polite-police-brutality).

[SeriousStudent]

Is anyone else reading this entire thread in their head with a brit accent?

Quite.

[Chuteur]

I'll admit to being disappointed British policing is not as it is depicted in Reno 911! (http://www.cc.com/video-clips/fhm2qb/reno-911--polite-police-brutality).

Whilst not the approach ordinarily used by copper's when working there is a lot of self defence training, both unarmed and in the use of baton and spray. There is also regular public order training and practice to perfect tactics and methods of application.

The acronym SAS not only stands for Special Air Service it is also used for Speed Aggression Surprise in the application of necessary overwhelming force - in otherwords going from zero to 100mph in the blink of an eye when needed.

[NEPAKevin]

Is anyone else reading this entire thread in their head with a brit accent?

Charles C.W. Cooke's voice may have subliminally inserted itself.

[LittleLebowski]

Hi. I live in the DFW area at the moment. I have been shooting for a fair few years with British military and police experience.

I have attended a few courses here in the USA. By far my bestest and most favouritist course attended is the one at Bill Rogers place where I have displayed my comparative ineptitude and need for learning on more than one course.

I am a fan of 9mm, love my Glocks.......although I am coveting a VP9, I used to like my MP5 that the Queen supplied so I should like the VP9, I also like BBQ,.......maybe that is why I landed in Texas.

Cheers Gents.

Welcome, glad to see another Limey with guns in America!

[mtnbkr]

I could go on, but I can't without giving away operational methods. But, as you can see, the UK Bobby is not as unarmed as he might appear.

I work for a British company and spend a lot of time on the phone with your countrymen, as well as getting over to the UK from time to time. I had a chat with one of my colleagues while in London last year about the "unarmed Bobby" and learned a fair bit about their skills with non-firearms tools as well as their soft skills. It was the latter that really impressed me.

Chris

[mtnbkr]

Is anyone else reading this entire thread in their head with a brit accent?
Due to the job I referenced above, I can sometimes go all day without speaking to another American and have started to adopt a number of British terms unintentionally. Needless to say, I was reading Chuteur's posts with an accent. :D

Chris

[TheNewbie]

Chuteur, go out to the stephenville area and shoot at Tacpro. It's ran by Bill Davison who I believe was SBS. He's a funny guy but it's been years since I've been there.

[blues]

The "new chap on the range" has apparently vacated the premises based upon a PM I received from him taking umbrage at being accused of having an "agenda" by a bunch of "hillbillies". And so it goes...

[Rex G]

The "new chap on the range" has apparently vacated the premises based upon a PM I received from him taking umbrage at being accused of having an "agenda" by a bunch of "hillbillies". And so it goes...

In spite of being Scots-Irish on my mother's side, and one generation removed from "Cajun*" on my father's side, I like our new Brit member, and wish he would return. Chuteur, if you see this, please do return to the forum.

Once upon a time, I arrived on a burglary-in-progress call, and was met at the street by a neighbor of the complainant. He was obviously a very proper British chap, complete with walking stick, and as my back-up unit was some distance away, the old chap had my back for quite some time while I established voice contact with the complainant, to make sure she was no imminent danger of harm. He seemed quite notably calm, and aware. When my back-up unit arrived, we did a proper job of clearing the town house. The chap waited outside, and when we all was well, with the burglar having apparently fled over a rear fence, the chap faded away.

I later learned, from my complainant, that the Britis chap, her friend who lived nearby, was prior-service SAS! With police response time being shamefully slow, she had called her neighbor chap, in addition to 911. (This was my first call of the shift; I responded from the station.) Had I known of his service, upon arrival, I could have handed him my "Armalite," and been safer for having done so.

*I actually hate the derived-from-illiteracy "Cajun" spelling. It should be "Acadian." The French-speaking Acadians were deported from Acadia, in Canada, by the British. The ones who made it to New Orleans largely settled in the bayous and swamps of southeast Louisiana, and became "Cajuns."

[LittleLebowski]

The "new chap on the range" has apparently vacated the premises based upon a PM I received from him taking umbrage at being accused of having an "agenda" by a bunch of "hillbillies". And so it goes...

The day after I welcome him to the site. It would be nice if he spoke to the moderators were given a heads up...

[rjohnson4405]

His agenda comment was in one of the most polite internet threads I've ever seen. :shrug:

[mtnbkr]

No clue what set him off, it was largely a lovefest.

Chris

[TheNewbie]

I read what I think is the problem comment and it seems to be a gross misunderstanding. Though it's really non of my business.

Wish we had more international members, including more police from other countries.

[WobblyPossum]

Granted, I don't know what Chuteur said to Blues, but I think the agenda comment was a misunderstanding. I hope he comes back. I enjoyed his posts and I was looking forward to learning more about LE in the United Kingdom.